wuhan - coronavirus

[Pen]

People with lung issues might want to look into NAC n acetyl cysteine .

I can’t post studies now, but there’s good research that can be found about it helping with COPD (strong evidence), asthma (weak / contradictory evidence), bronchitis (strong) , etc 

Edited March 8, 2020 by Pen

[Sneezyone]

3 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Italian regions now on lockdown: - Lombardy Region - Venice - Modena - Parma - Piacenza - Reggio Emilia - Rimini - Pesaro and Urbino - Alessandria - Asti - Novara - Verbano-Cusio-Ossola - Vercelli - Padua - Treviso

yep. 16 million people.

Four weeks ago, Italy was where we are. This is our future. I’m gonna be over here working my little VIPKID gig...from home...and sanitizing the heck out of any people/things that come in. T’is said the good Lord protects fools. I hope that’s true.

[Ausmumof3]

1st case in Vermont

https://www.healthvermont.gov/media/newsroom/vermont-announces-first-presumptive-case-new-coronavirus-covid-19-march-7-2020

[Ausmumof3]

Germany have 800 cases and so far no deaths.  I’m not sure whether that’s meaningful in anyway or not.

[prairiewindmomma]

The levels of respiratory care are:

ECMO

ventilator

bi-pap

c-pap

supplemental oxygen

nebulizer treatment

inhaler

Youngest was born preemie enough that she got weaned off of a vent down to c-pap, then oxygen. C-pap only works if you can still exhale on your own. There may be only 1-2 ECMO machines in a large regional area (1-3 million size population), a dozen or so ventilators spread among hospitals, but cpap is a little bit easier to set up. I suspect a lot of these little hospitals don’t have more than a ventilator if they have any at all—hence the extensive use of C-Pap. 

[Ausmumof3]

13 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

The levels of respiratory care are:

ECMO

ventilator

bi-pap

c-pap

supplemental oxygen

nebulizer treatment

inhaler

Youngest was born preemie enough that she got weaned off of a vent down to c-pap, then oxygen. C-pap only works if you can still exhale on your own. There may be only 1-2 ECMO machines in a large regional area (1-3 million size population), a dozen or so ventilators spread among hospitals, but cpap is a little bit easier to set up. I suspect a lot of these little hospitals don’t have more than a ventilator if they have any at all—hence the extensive use of C-Pap. 

Is CPAP what they use for sleep apnea?  Or is that a totally different thing and I’m confused?

[prairiewindmomma]

Same thing.

[Farrar]

2 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Beijing slowly coming back to life

https://mobile.twitter.com/amyyqin/status/1236451710609936385

The images of blue skies in Beijing are the freakiest thing about this yet. I hope everyone is enjoying that part of it while it lasts.

[Farrar]

Also, first cases here in DC and one appears to be community spread. And it was apparently all over CPAC so you can expect the first American politicians to have it soon, I think.

SFB canceled performances. I'm worried about my kid's ability to go to San Fran in June to dance.

Edited March 8, 2020 by Farrar

[popmom]

16 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

The levels of respiratory care are:

ECMO

ventilator

bi-pap

c-pap

supplemental oxygen

nebulizer treatment

inhaler

Youngest was born preemie enough that she got weaned off of a vent down to c-pap, then oxygen. C-pap only works if you can still exhale on your own. There may be only 1-2 ECMO machines in a large regional area (1-3 million size population), a dozen or so ventilators spread among hospitals, but cpap is a little bit easier to set up. I suspect a lot of these little hospitals don’t have more than a ventilator if they have any at all—hence the extensive use of C-Pap. 

I have been wondering how many EMCO machines are in my area. We have a major medical school here. I found an article that says they support up to 100 patients a year on ECMO. And up to 50 at the associated Childrens' Hospital. 

[Ausmumof3]

10 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Same thing.

So presumably they should be fairly available if effective 

[Farrar]

I don't really understand how CPAP and nebulizers work... but when I read about what went wrong at the Lifeline (or Lifetime or whatever) nursing home outside Seattle, that was apparently one of the things... the EMT's said they used those on the patients before they knew it was C19 and they said it essentially "aerosolized" it. So is the risk of those treatments greater to healthcare workers?

[prairiewindmomma]

ECMO replaces heart and lung function...usually you are only on it a few days before the situation resolves itself one way or another. It is not usual to be on it for a period of several weeks.

[prairiewindmomma]

3 minutes ago, Farrar said:

I don't really understand how CPAP and nebulizers work... but when I read about what went wrong at the Lifeline (or Lifetime or whatever) nursing home outside Seattle, that was apparently one of the things... the EMT's said they used those on the patients before they knew it was C19 and they said it essentially "aerosolized" it. So is the risk of those treatments greater to healthcare workers?

I am not a respiratory therapist or a nurse, but some procedures such as intubation are a huge risk to the persons doing it at the time of placement.

Bipap and cpap do theoretically have a greater risk of aerosolization compared to an endotrach once that is in place. And supposedly you can put a HEPA filter in with the trach (but I don’t know the exact details of how) to even further reduce the exposure with the trach.

But, yes, there is a reason so many healthcare workers are falling ill. 😞 They have some serious exposures doing patient care.

[Arcadia]

Firefighters are not quarantined 😒

https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/coronavirus/gilroy-announces-first-coronavirus-case-firefighters-being-monitored-after-contact/2249972/

“The City of Gilroy is currently evaluating all city programs and public events to ensure compliance with the latest recommendations from the Santa Clara County Department of Public Health and the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, after firefighters treated a person Thursday who later tested positive for coronavirus, in the city's first case officials said.

The Gilroy firefighters, who have shown no coronavirus symptoms, are being allowed to return to work while being monitored on a daily basis for the next 14 days, police said.

Gilroy firefighters on Thursday went on a medical call for a resident experiencing chest pains. The patient was taken to Kaiser Hospital Santa Teresa in San Jose for treatment. It was there that the patient was later confirmed to have Novel coronavirus.”

[Farrar]

Okay, another question, oh hive. There's a viral meme I've seen going around saying that the reason kids are super resistant to this coronavirus is because they have so much exposure to the common cold (which is also a coronavirus, just not "the" coronavirus). But I've not seen that guessed at in any publication. And it doesn't even make sense to me. Like, lots of categories of people get overexposed to the common cold - kids aren't the only germ magnets out there. Is there any truth to this or is it just total crap?

[Pen]

15 minutes ago, Farrar said:

I don't really understand how CPAP and nebulizers work... but when I read about what went wrong at the Lifeline (or Lifetime or whatever) nursing home outside Seattle, that was apparently one of the things... the EMT's said they used those on the patients before they knew it was C19 and they said it essentially "aerosolized" it. So is the risk of those treatments greater to healthcare workers?

 

I think all life saving treatments up close and personal dealing with getting breathing going are a risk. And an enormous risk if health care workers don’t even know to take precautions.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanres/article/PIIS2213-2600(20)30084-9/fulltext

[prairiewindmomma]

2 minutes ago, Farrar said:

Okay, another question, oh hive. There's a viral meme I've seen going around saying that the reason kids are super resistant to this coronavirus is because they have so much exposure to the common cold (which is also a coronavirus, just not "the" coronavirus). But I've not seen that guessed at in any publication. And it doesn't even make sense to me. Like, lots of categories of people get overexposed to the common cold - kids aren't the only germ magnets out there. Is there any truth to this or is it just total crap?

I highly doubt this is accurate.

[Pen]

2 minutes ago, Farrar said:

Okay, another question, oh hive. There's a viral meme I've seen going around saying that the reason kids are super resistant to this coronavirus is because they have so much exposure to the common cold (which is also a coronavirus, just not "the" coronavirus). But I've not seen that guessed at in any publication. And it doesn't even make sense to me. Like, lots of categories of people get overexposed to the common cold - kids aren't the only germ magnets out there. Is there any truth to this or is it just total crap?

Idk. 

Havent seen it.  Maybe not quite as fully crap as idea that Corona beer causes Covid

But high level of crap

it May even be opposite— that kids aren’t mounting such a huge immune defense and thus not having as much cytokine damage

 

[Farrar]

1 minute ago, prairiewindmomma said:

I highly doubt this is accurate.

I mean, that's certainly what I thought.

I've been floored by the amount of misinformation about this thing, honestly. It's way beyond what I usually see on my FB feed.

[Farrar]

2 minutes ago, Pen said:

Idk. 

Havent seen it.  Maybe not quite as fully crap as idea that Corona beer causes Covid

But high level of crap

it May even be opposite— that kids aren’t mounting such a huge immune defense and thus not having as much cytokine damage

 

Well, the Corona beer thing was also a bit crap. But yeah. I mean, I could totally be wrong. It just... seemed odd and I haven't seen it anywhere but in this one meme.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/corona-beer-fear-coronavirus/

[Pen]

Just now, Farrar said:

Well, the Corona beer thing was also a bit crap. But yeah. I mean, I could totally be wrong. It just... seemed odd and I haven't seen it anywhere but in this one meme.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/corona-beer-fear-coronavirus/

 

I think u misunderstood my meaning.

I give Corona beer thing a 100% crap rating

I give the kids don’t get very bad sick with Covid as much as adults because of common cold exposure a 90% crap rating

[Farrar]

2 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

I think u misunderstood my meaning.

I give Corona beer thing a 100% crap rating

I give the kids don’t get very bad sick with Covid as much as adults because of common cold exposure a 90% crap rating

We're probably talking past each other. Obviously the beer thing is crap, but no one actually thought it, which was what my Snopes link was about. People do think the kids and the common cold thing apparently.

[Slache]

Covid has been through NICUs and those kids haven't had colds.

Personally, I think kids handle it so well because their lungs are so healthy and intact.

[Ausmumof3]

18 minutes ago, Farrar said:

Okay, another question, oh hive. There's a viral meme I've seen going around saying that the reason kids are super resistant to this coronavirus is because they have so much exposure to the common cold (which is also a coronavirus, just not "the" coronavirus). But I've not seen that guessed at in any publication. And it doesn't even make sense to me. Like, lots of categories of people get overexposed to the common cold - kids aren't the only germ magnets out there. Is there any truth to this or is it just total crap?

It doesn’t make sense to me.  The reason kids get colds aside from their general germiness is that they haven’t been exposed to as many illnesses and don’t have inbuilt immunity.  
I think more likely they are catching and spreading mild versions of it but not becoming as ill or in China possibly that it’s been easier to protect and isolate kids by bringing them home from school whereas adults still have to do some basic adult tasks.  We don’t really have good data from outside China yet to know if this is really a feature or the virus or something more specific to the way society is structured.

 

[Shoeless]

19 minutes ago, Farrar said:

Okay, another question, oh hive. There's a viral meme I've seen going around saying that the reason kids are super resistant to this coronavirus is because they have so much exposure to the common cold (which is also a coronavirus, just not "the" coronavirus). But I've not seen that guessed at in any publication. And it doesn't even make sense to me. Like, lots of categories of people get overexposed to the common cold - kids aren't the only germ magnets out there. Is there any truth to this or is it just total crap?

 

Sounds like the windup to a nonsense justification of why a cold is "no big deal!" and it's actually ok to let sick people hang out with healthy people ("It builds your immune system! Germs are good for you!"). 

[Pen]

10 minutes ago, Farrar said:

We're probably talking past each other. Obviously the beer thing is crap, but no one actually thought it, which was what my Snopes link was about. People do think the kids and the common cold thing apparently.

 

Ehy have sales of Corona beer apparently gone down if no one thought it?

[Arcadia]

26 minutes ago, Farrar said:

Okay, another question, oh hive. There's a viral meme I've seen going around saying that the reason kids are super resistant to this coronavirus is because they have so much exposure to the common cold (which is also a coronavirus, just not "the" coronavirus). But I've not seen that guessed at in any publication. And it doesn't even make sense to me. Like, lots of categories of people get overexposed to the common cold - kids aren't the only germ magnets out there. Is there any truth to this or is it just total crap?

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/6/20-0239_article

”We found a sharply increasing proportion of infected children (from 2% before January 24 to 13% for January 25–February 5; p<0.001), implying that increased exposure for children and intrafamily transmission might contribute substantially to the epidemic. Although substantially higher after January 25, 2020, the proportion of infected children in our study before January 24, 2020, was similar to the proportions reported by Li et al (1) (0/425, based on cases as of January 22, 2020) and Guan et al. (W.J. Guan et al., unpub. data, https://doi.org/10.1101/2020.02.06.20020974External Link) (9/1,099 as of January 29, 2020). The possible reasons for the discrepancy after January 25 might be the low proportion of children exposed early in the outbreak; early detection for children who had had close contact with persons with diagnosed or suspected cases after strict control measures were conducted comprehensively; and difficult identification of the relatively milder clinical signs and symptoms in young patients than in infected adults (6), especially in the setting of limited resources in the early phase of the outbreak in Wuhan.”

[Slache]

6 minutes ago, Pen said:

Ehy have sales of Corona beer apparently gone down if no one thought it?

Have other beers gone down? Maybe we're choosing to buy tp and save our money for now. Sounds adulty.

[Farrar]

7 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

Ehy have sales of Corona beer apparently gone down if no one thought it?

The Snopes piece explains that all beer sales have slumped because of the global consumption and shipping issues around the virus. There's nothing to show that sales slumped as a result of the name coincidence. 

[Renai]

18 minutes ago, Slache said:

Covid has been through NICUs and those kids haven't had colds.

Personally, I think kids handle it so well because their lungs are so healthy and intact.

But a child's lungs aren't even fully mature. I thought that was why young children and older people (lung efficiency decreases) are admonished about other respiratory illnesses. 

[Slache]

Just now, Renai said:

But a child's lungs aren't even fully mature. I thought that was why young children and older people (lung efficiency decreases) are admonished about other respiratory illnesses. 

Yes, especially NICU babies, but I think this virus likes injuries caused by smoking and pollution.

I could be completely wrong, but either way, it's not the cold thing.

[TravelingChris]

17 minutes ago, Renai said:

But a child's lungs aren't even fully mature. I thought that was why young children and older people (lung efficiency decreases) are admonished about other respiratory illnesses. 

I don't think we know.  We know that some viruses almost always effect children, especially young ones. Some affect young and elderly. Some infect young adults mainly. Some infect elderly mainly.  This one affects middle aged to elderly.  Why? Who knows?  No one.

[Ausmumof3]

https://7news.com.au/news/vic/indonesian-woman-confirmed-as-the-12th-case-of-coronavirus-in-victoria-c-735059
 

12th case in Vic is a woman who came from Indonesia via Perth

[Ausmumof3]

US is tracking another cruise ship that may have shared crew with either diamond princess or Grand princess according to Mike Pence

https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN20U0Z2?__twitter_impression=true

[popmom]

1 hour ago, Farrar said:

Okay, another question, oh hive. There's a viral meme I've seen going around saying that the reason kids are super resistant to this coronavirus is because they have so much exposure to the common cold (which is also a coronavirus, just not "the" coronavirus). But I've not seen that guessed at in any publication. And it doesn't even make sense to me. Like, lots of categories of people get overexposed to the common cold - kids aren't the only germ magnets out there. Is there any truth to this or is it just total crap?

Up until this month my understanding was that rhinovirus was mostly responsible for the common cold. I had never even heard of coronavirus, so I don't think kids have some kind of extra exposure to coronavirus.

[TravelingChris]

Some observations from my trip that started Friday. 

Dunkin donuts has followed Starbucks lead (or maybe the other way around) and will no longer accept refillable cups.

I watched the first part of VP Pense press conference yesterday and he announced that as of this coming Monday, both Labcorp and Quest Labs will be doing tests

At breakfast today, I was seated next to a Irish lady who was next to a British lady but no one was sick and they were both in mid sixties to early 70s so unlikely to be asymptomatic carriers.

Yesterday. we received news from our retired pastor's wife that there would be no way we can have bus transportation to Atlanta International Airport for our planned (and almost all paid for) reformation tour which we are supposed to go in later May through June1.  It would be in mostly the eastern part of Germany, then the lower central and southern part and then Zurich and Geneva.  We were driving down here to Montgomery and I was reading text to dh. I asked him if we should reserve airplane tickets or plan to drive ourselves and spend the night at a hotel in the return journey.  He replied that he gets the trip will be cancelled or postponed.  Then I got an email from the travel agent who planned the whole trip.  She said the are monitoring the situation every day or more often as they have other tours that are overseas right now of about to go. She said that if it had to be cancelled, they would work to get us refunds. I talked w dh and we decided we would decided  that we would be willing to take rain checks and do a driving tour ourselves,if we had to but after this virus has died down.

Report from CVS in Wetumpka Al. - plenty of rubbing alcohol available-  one of the end display cases was totally full.  The women's bathroom ran out of towels by 11 am as so many people are taking hand washing much more seriously.

In all the public bathrooms I was in today, the trashcans showed signs of lots of people washing hands.  ( The ones that were open to view, of course)

[Ausmumof3]

https://www.bellevuereporter.com/news/life-care-center-of-kirkland-breaks-silence-at-saturday-press-conference/?amp&__twitter_impression=true
 

report on the nursing home situation.  40pc if health care workers showing symptoms that could be coronavirus.

[Ausmumof3]

2 minutes ago, popmom said:

Up until this month my understanding was that rhinovirus was mostly responsible for the common cold. I had never even heard of coronavirus, so I don't think kids have some kind of extra exposure to coronavirus.

a small percentage of respiratory viruses are caused by coronaviruses apparently.  @maize ? Did I tag right mentioned it first.  That’s why antibacterial wipes etc mention coronaviruses.  But there’s loads of different types.  Some affect chickens and pigs, birds people etc.  

[Arcadia]

https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/03/07/grand-princess-to-dock-at-port-of-oakland-official-says/
“The stricken Grand Princess cruise ship is headed to the Port of Oakland, having received permission from Gov. Gavin Newsom to dock there and for its thousands of passengers and crew to disembark, an Oakland councilman said.

Councilman Larry Reid said he was told by an official at the Port of Oakland that the cruise ship would dock at a terminal in the Outer Harbor that is no longer in operation.

The vessel is likely to arrive on Sunday afternoon, according to a Saturday night announcement by the ship’s captain to passengers, After docking, it will begin a disembarking process that is likely to take several days.

Passengers who require acute medical treatment and hospitalization will be transported to health care facilities in California, the captain said.  California passengers who don’t require medical care will go to a federally-operated facility for testing and quarantine.  He did not specify which facility.

Passengers from states outside California will be transported by federal authorities to facilities in other states, according to the captain.  On Saturday night, Rep. Joaquin Castro, D-San Antonio, tweeted that they would be transferred to Lackland Air Force Base in San Antonio.  Plans for international passengers have not yet been finalized.

... The federal government also is setting up a command center at the Marriott Convention Center and flying in extra U.S. Marshals to help with the operation, Reid said. From there, passengers and crew will board shuttle buses to be taken to their next destinations. That destination would not be the Marriott, Reid emphasized.”

[gardenmom5]

I know there is a lot of "kids don't get sick".   the first wave of the Spanish flu, was much harder on older adults.  the second wave - took out kids.

[Ausmumof3]

1 hour ago, StellaM said:

 

If he's in hospitality, he likely doesn't have sick leave or sick pay.

I agree he should have stayed home, but people won't, if it means not being able to pay the rent/bills. Nobody wants to end up on Newstart.

Especially if they themselves still feel reasonable well.

Yeah you’re right.  There’s a campaign going to get even casual workers sick leave if they need to quarantine.  These times are certainly times when inequalities like this can contribute to harming all of society.

[Ausmumof3]

35 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/03/07/grand-princess-to-dock-at-port-of-oakland-official-says/
“The stricken Grand Princess cruise ship is headed to the Port of Oakland, having received permission from Gov. Gavin Newsom to dock there and for its thousands of passengers and crew to disembark, an Oakland councilman said.

Councilman Larry Reid said he was told by an official at the Port of Oakland that the cruise ship would dock at a terminal in the Outer Harbor that is no longer in operation.

The vessel is likely to arrive on Sunday afternoon, according to a Saturday night announcement by the ship’s captain to passengers, After docking, it will begin a disembarking process that is likely to take several days.

Passengers who require acute medical treatment and hospitalization will be transported to health care facilities in California, the captain said.  California passengers who don’t require medical care will go to a federally-operated facility for testing and quarantine.  He did not specify which facility.

Passengers from states outside California will be transported by federal authorities to facilities in other states, according to the captain.  On Saturday night, Rep. Joaquin Castro, D-San Antonio, tweeted that they would be transferred to Lackland Air Force Base in San Antonio.  Plans for international passengers have not yet been finalized.

... The federal government also is setting up a command center at the Marriott Convention Center and flying in extra U.S. Marshals to help with the operation, Reid said. From there, passengers and crew will board shuttle buses to be taken to their next destinations. That destination would not be the Marriott, Reid emphasized.”

Glad they are getting them off!  Hope they manage this successfully.

looks like the last of the Diamond Princess passengers in Japan are being allowed back to US

[Twolittleboys]

4 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Germany have 800 cases and so far no deaths.  I’m not sure whether that’s meaningful in anyway or not.

 

I am pretty sure this is partly luck but mostly because there is quite aggressive testing here. The cases have gone up very fast because with carneval there were a lot of parties and a lot of people in Italy on vacation. However, as soon as a sick person is identified there seems to be a lot of contact tracing, people are then watched/tested and of course isolated (actually they are supposed to stay home as soon as they are possible contacts) so there is less spread.

I know a couple of weeks ago a young man got some immunization shot and got really sick afterwards. At the hospital they tested for flu but also ran a COVID test even though the symptoms didn't quite match. They sent him back home (bad) but got him back in the hospital as soon as results were in. They traced a lot of contact persons (60?) and I think a fair number of them are now cases as well (though hopefully it ends with them). If they hadn't run the test he would have gone on to infect a fair number of others and the ones he already infected would have gone on to infect others etc...

Of course not everyone is caught even so and mistakes are made. For example a bunch of students from my kids's school were in South Tyrol up till 3/2 on vacation. They went back to school on Monday as it was not considered a risk area. However, in the meantime many people returning from there have gotten sick and guidance has changed. They are now not allowed back next week (to make 14 days in total). If any of them get sick in the next couple of days they might already have infected others. Still, noone can predict the future and they seem fairly on top of it (if anyone does get sick I am sure they'll close the school).

[Ausmumof3]

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/houston/amp/Houston-confirms-another-coronavirus-case-area-15111262.php?__twitter_impression=true
 

did we have this yet?  8 cases in Houston.

[Twolittleboys]

2 hours ago, StellaM said:

 

If he's in hospitality, he likely doesn't have sick leave or sick pay.

I agree he should have stayed home, but people won't, if it means not being able to pay the rent/bills. Nobody wants to end up on Newstart.

Especially if they themselves still feel reasonable well.

 

Sorry, but no. I do understand how hard it might be to stay home without sick leave/pay (I work freelance and even here in Germany would not get any money if I don't work) and in a general scenario I would agree. If you have a bit of a cold you might still go in. If you don't know that you have anything worse you might go in. But if you have been tested as positive for COVID? There is NO excuse for this and there should be consequences (not so much to punish the patient but to discourage others from doing the same). In my opinion this is a case in which the public good trumps personal interest (though I do feel an emergency fund or similar should be set up to help people in this situation). Also, how would the person feel if going back to work and someone they worked with (and clearly infected) was to die? Wouldn't that be worse than losing a couple weeks of income?

[Ausmumof3]

6 minutes ago, Twolittleboys said:

 

Sorry, but no. I do understand how hard it might be to stay home without sick leave/pay (I work freelance and even here in Germany would not get any money if I don't work) and in a general scenario I would agree. If you have a bit of a cold you might still go in. If you don't know that you have anything worse you might go in. But if you have been tested as positive for COVID? There is NO excuse for this and there should be consequences (not so much to punish the patient but to discourage others from doing the same). In my opinion this is a case in which the public good trumps personal interest (though I do feel an emergency fund or similar should be set up to help people in this situation). Also, how would the person feel if going back to work and someone they worked with (and clearly infected) was to die? Wouldn't that be worse than losing a couple weeks of income?

I mostly agree, I wouldn’t do it but some people in Aus are living pretty close to the edge right now.  It’s hard to know what pressure was involved.  This is why it’s critical to get legislation to make it easier for people to actually do the right thing.

i also feel frustrated every time someone doesn’t self quarantine correctly because it pushes the situation closer to needing forcible quarantine or having to manage people in facilities or something.  And home quarantine is so much better if people honour it.

[Twolittleboys]

15 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I mostly agree, I wouldn’t do it but some people in Aus are living pretty close to the edge right now.  It’s hard to know what pressure was involved.  This is why it’s critical to get legislation to make it easier for people to actually do the right thing.

i also feel frustrated every time someone doesn’t self quarantine correctly because it pushes the situation closer to needing forcible quarantine or having to manage people in facilities or something.  And home quarantine is so much better if people honour it.

 

Yes, I am sure it can be very difficult and I absolutely agree that legislation is needed to help people who are doing the right thing. I also can see someone slightly going against orders (as in I am doing a last run to the store or I am dropping of these packages etc.) though of course that is also not okay. But going to work in the hospitality industry after a positive result in a place that doesn't have wide-spread infection yet? That is just not okay.

[Twolittleboys]

So I have been thinking and to me it seems that what is happening in countries so far (thinking China/Iran/Italy) is that at first not that much is done to stop the spread. It looks like a mix of "won't happen here" (of course for China it was a bit different as it probably did take a while to realize what was going on) and "it won't be so bad" (i.e. the death rate isn't that high, we'll just get through it). But then something seems to change and lead countries to serious measures to stop/delay the virus. I think it is probably a combination of infections hitting close to home (e.g. knowing someone who is sick/in danger of serious illness) and the realization how overburdened the health care system is getting.

I wonder if the same pattern will hold true in the future. So far not that much has been done in the US (or in most European countries) - will they also lock down cities, close schools for extended periods etc.?

 

[Ausmumof3]

2 minutes ago, Twolittleboys said:

So I have been thinking and to me it seems that what is happening in countries so far (thinking China/Iran/Italy) is that at first not that much is done to stop the spread. It looks like a mix of "won't happen here" (of course for China it was a bit different as it probably did take a while to realize what was going on) and "it won't be so bad" (i.e. the death rate isn't that high, we'll just get through it). But then something seems to change and lead countries to serious measures to stop/delay the virus. I think it is probably a combination of infections hitting close to home (e.g. knowing someone who is sick/in danger of serious illness) and the realization how overburdened the health care system is getting.

I wonder if the same pattern will hold true in the future. So far not that much has been done in the US (or in most European countries) - will they also lock down cities, close schools for extended periods etc.?

 

Yes exactly the pattern everywhere.  I think to the health care staff seeing exactly how quickly people are going downhill when they get the worst version of the disease.  I think this is highlighted in the report from the aged care facility too.

edited to add except maybe South Korea .  But I think Arcadia said that was because they were already on edge because of SARS

Edited March 8, 2020 by Ausmumof3