wuhan - coronavirus

[gardenmom5]

14 minutes ago, Plum said:

1) When health care workers work at a hospital, they have to go through fit testing to ensure the masks will be properly worn, will be nice and tightly sealed and infection prevention protocols will be followed. 

2) The general public doesn’t know how to use a mask properly making them a waste. I’ve seen people on the news with a mask not covering their nose. I’ve seen them not covering their eyes. I’ve seen people slap on some sanitizer without rubbing it into the cuticles and between the fingers and then wiping the excess on their pants. N95 Masks in those people’s hands are not effective because well-fitted masks are horribly uncomfortable and a healthy person wearing one correctly all day long is highly unlikely not to mention them bringing the mask inside their home and possibly rewearing it the next day.
 

3) Only health care providers, high risk demographics and the sick should be wearing masks. That’s the most efficient use of the masks; especially in a shortage. 

this.

when I was in the 'ER, they were making me wear a mask.  even after I got to a room, and the nurses were required to be gowned, gloved, and full-face masked, I had one that made me wear a mask when she was in the room -  and that was before the news of US patient zero hit.

 

eta: I'm glad I have some masks around when I go out, because I am higher risk.

Edited March 2, 2020 by gardenmom5

[Laurie]

5 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

her mother didn't have it.

not the same treatment as the woman who tried to visit her husband (who had a cough the last time she talked to him) - and struggled to even get people to pick up the phone, and no one would give her information about how he was doing  when they did.

But her mother is still inside the nursing home.   I don't think they have the special isolation rooms and air containment systems like the hospitals, so why are they letting outsiders in at all?

The woman's mother has probably been cared for by some of the same staff members who had contact with the people who got sick.  I hope she doesn't get sick, but she's still at risk just by being there.

I just don't understand how this woman was allowed into the nursing home at all, and will she be required to stay home for 2 weeks in isolation?    

[Acadie]

1 hour ago, Twolittleboys said:

I am  a bit shocked actually as I have always thought that the CDC is the best there is as far as disease/epidemic prevention etc. and so far I am not impressed. Mostly, I don't understand why there is no more testing . I know there were issues with the first batch of test kits but other countries don't seem to have as many problems with this.  It is easy claiming that the US is doing great with disease prevention if you do not find any sick people due to a lack of tests (at least for a while).

I just read on CNN that there have been 23 tests in total in Florida. Given the large number of international tourists to the state and the high percentage of older people that seems ridiculous. Apparently, one of the 23 (actually 17 as 6 tests are not finished yet) is someone without travel history...

Agreed--the number of things they've already screwed up is truly mind-boggling.

1. The WHO offered tests, but we turned them down and said we'd make our own.

2. One reagent in the CDC kits sent to states was not working properly.

3. This may be related to number 2, but a visiting scientist found contamination in the CDC lab and it's been shut down, with test production moved to a commercial lab.

4. They prohibited states from using their own tests or those made by other labs while their own tests were unavailable

5. The criteria for testing have been way too narrow--many people with travel history to regions other than China who are suffering with symptoms have been refused testing

6. Until this past weekend, less than 500 people in the US had been tested, so we have absolutely no idea what's happening

7. They squandered the crucial window when we knew what was going on in other countries, and could have prepared health care systems here

8. They allowed the focus to be exclusively on travel restrictions (contagion coming in from outside the country) rather than collecting data on what was happening inside the US

Edited March 2, 2020 by Acadie

[Susan in TX]

10 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

her mother didn't have it.

not the same treatment as the woman who tried to visit her husband (who had a cough the last time she talked to him) - and struggled to even get people to pick up the phone, and no one would give her information about how he was doing  when they did.

 

Her mother might not have it now but everyone in that facility has been exposed. The entire facility should be under strict quarantine. And anyone who has been in the facility should also be quarantined. 

It is things like this that make me very pessimistic about our ability to stop this virus in the US.

Susan in TX

[Sneezyone]

5 minutes ago, DoraBora said:

I have lived in the southern US (TX and GA) my entire life, so I know hot and humid.  I don't know Bahrain's level of preparedness, so I can't know how the spread has going for them or whether it will continue.

And now, I need to go to the food pantry for my Monday shift, so I can't continue to try to point out that past performance doesn't guarantee future results, as the financial products folks say.

So, I guess there are no silver linings.

 

Bahrain---Arkansas---roughly the same only there's less government control over the populace in the US. I had better, cheaper dental care in Bahrain. I had better, quicker surgery in the U.S. The idea that the US is so superior that the rules of viral transmission and epidemiology don't apply is just...well...OK. Bahrain is not the third world.

[Sneezyone]

3 minutes ago, Susan in TX said:

 

Her mother might not have it now but everyone in that facility has been exposed. The entire facility should be under strict quarantine. And anyone who has been in the facility should also be quarantined. 

It is things like this that make me very pessimistic about our ability to stop this virus in the US.

Susan in TX

 

This. The 'rugged individuality' of Americans is going to be a problem. The inability/unwillingness to use and/or enforce a strict quarantine as China and South Korea have done will also be a problem.

[Arcadia]

33 minutes ago, Carrie12345 said:

 

Anyway, I couldn’t get more boxed milk or rubbing alcohol.

 

30 minutes ago, mlktwins said:

In my area, I bought what was left (not much) of the boxed milk on Saturday.  I went to a different store today and none.

What kind of boxed milk?

Last night when I went there was Horizon Organic single serve 12 in a box, pasteurized almond milk, pasteurized soy milk, hemp milk, cashew milk. 

[gardenmom5]

4 minutes ago, Laurie said:

But her mother is still inside the nursing home.   I don't think they have the special isolation rooms and air containment systems like the hospitals, so why are they letting outsiders in at all?

The woman's mother has probably been cared for by some of the same staff members who had contact with the people who got sick.  I hope she doesn't get sick, but she's still at risk just by being there.

I just don't understand how this woman was allowed into the nursing home at all, and will she be required to stay home for 2 weeks in isolation?    

who knows, unless her mother is in a different wing from where the sick patients.  (I just looked up the building, it's shaped like an 0. - don't know if it's all one HVAC, or separate units for different parts of the building.)  I can't imagine her even wanting to leave her mother there. it's a giant petri dish at this point.

the other woman whose husband has been there since he broke his hip, isn't even getting information on how he is doing, and the last time she knew anything he was coughing.

there are two dozen firemen/police/paramedics who are know in quarantine after they responded to calls to the facility.

 

[Pawz4me]

10 minutes ago, Acadie said:

Agreed--I thought even with the current administration's funding cuts that there were enough people left to competently handle something like the rollout of testing in the US. But the number of things they've already screwed up is truly mind-boggling.

1. The WHO offered tests, but we turned them down and said we'd make our own.

2. One reagent in the CDC kits sent to states was not working properly.

3. This may be related to number 2, but a visiting scientist found contamination in the CDC lab and it's been shut down, with test production moved to a commercial lab.

4. They prohibited states from using their own tests or those made by other labs while their own tests were unavailable

5. The criteria for testing have been way too narrow--many people with travel history to regions other than China who are suffering with symptoms have been refused testing

6. Until this past weekend, less than 500 people in the US had been tested, so we have absolutely no idea what's happening

7. They squandered the crucial window when we knew what was going on in other countries, and could have prepared health care systems here

8. They allowed the focus to be exclusively on travel restrictions (contagion coming in from outside the country) rather than collecting data on what was happening inside the US

I hope this isn't too political, but I've read several fact check type articles that say the CDC's budget has never been cut. Yes, the current administration wanted to (and still does--deep cuts are in their most recent budget proposal), but Congress disagreed. This AP article states: "Trump’s budgets have proposed cuts to public health, only to be overruled by Congress, where there’s strong bipartisan support for agencies such as the CDC and NIH. Instead, financing has increased."

To my way of thinking that makes the bungling even worse. Can't blame it on lack of funding.

[Acadie]

5 minutes ago, Pawz4me said:

I hope this isn't too political, but I've read several fact check type articles that say the CDC's budget has never been cut. Yes, the current administration wanted to (and still does--deep cuts are in their most recent budget proposal), but Congress disagreed. This AP article states: "Trump’s budgets have proposed cuts to public health, only to be overruled by Congress, where there’s strong bipartisan support for agencies such as the CDC and NIH. Instead, financing has increased."

To my way of thinking that makes the bungling even worse. Can't blame it on lack of funding.

Thank you for fact checking this. My quick search confirms that proposed cuts have thus far been overruled by Congress, and I'll edit my post to reflect that.

I do believe the National Security Council position that coordinates response to epidemics was eliminated.

I also heard local health officials in Washington state talking about trying to deal with the epidemic while understaffed due to budget cuts, but I don't know exactly how state or local boards of health are funded. Probably a combination of state and federal funds.

[Carrie12345]

29 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

 

What kind of boxed milk?

Last night when I went there was Horizon Organic single serve 12 in a box, pasteurized almond milk, pasteurized soy milk, hemp milk, cashew milk. 

Mine only carries Parmalat in quarts. There are Horizon sippy boxes, but I’d rather go without than pay those prices, lol.
We have almond for my one almond milk drinker.

[mlktwins]

2 minutes ago, Carrie12345 said:

Mine only carries Parmalat in quarts. There are Horizon sippy boxes, but I’d rather go without than pay those prices, lol.
We have almond for my one almond milk drinker.

Same brand for me.  Parmalat.

[popmom]

6 hours ago, StellaM said:

 

A health threat is a health threat.  And I'm not so sure people were quite so phlegmatic about, say, polio as you suggest.

 

I agree with you. I wasn't suggesting they were phlegmatic. I remember my mother and grandmother talking about polio. My grandmother caught pretty much everything except polio. She had diphtheria, whooping cough, double pneumonia twice. She shouldn't have survived. But I can't recall my grandmother ever mentioning schools closing over any of it. Or price gouging or stockpiling. Maybe it was because they lived in a rural area on a farm. Stockpiling was a way of life. 

[Laurie]

38 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

who knows, unless her mother is in a different wing from where the sick patients.  (I just looked up the building, it's shaped like an 0. - don't know if it's all one HVAC, or separate units for different parts of the building.)  I can't imagine her even wanting to leave her mother there. it's a giant petri dish at this point.

the other woman whose husband has been there since he broke his hip, isn't even getting information on how he is doing, and the last time she knew anything he was coughing.

there are two dozen firemen/police/paramedics who are know in quarantine after they responded to calls to the facility.

 

Maybe I'm wrong, but the fact that the story mentions that the mother is a retired nurse makes me wonder if this is a case of someone on the staff favoring the retired nurse's family over the other man with the broken hip. 

I hadn't heard about the man with the broken hip...I'm angry for his family!  

[Arcadia]

24 minutes ago, Acadie said:

I also heard local health officials in Washington state talking about trying to deal with the epidemic while understaffed due to budget cuts, but I don't know exactly how state or local boards of health are funded. Probably a combination of state and federal funds.

@Laurie @gardenmom5 @Lawyer&Mom @Jean in Newcastle
https://www.doh.wa.gov/AboutUs/BudgetContractsandGrants/Budget

“The Department of Health is responsible for a $1.2 billion biennial operating budget and administration of 24 separate financial accounts. Federal funding makes up a majority (46%) of the agency’s operating budget.  The remaining funds are composed of fee revenue (27%), other dedicated funding (15%) and General Fund State (12%).  Other dedicated funds are separate accounts whose money can be used for only specific purposes, such as the Emergency Medical Services & Trauma Care Systems Account.

• Read more about our 2019-21 Biennial Budget Proposal submitted to Office of Financial Management (OFM).

...

Disease Control and Health Statistics Division

The Disease Control and Health Statistics Division (DCHS) conducts public health surveillance and investigation. The division provides the scientific foundation for policy development, vital records, and quality health information, as well as public health laboratory services. DCHS has a $4.8 million capital budget for the state owned Public Health Laboratories campus in Shoreline.

DCHS Operating Budget: $233.0 million

• 42% Federal
• 37% Fees (include AIDS rebates)
• 21% General Fund-State
• See more details about these funds.

DCHS offices include:

• Communicable Disease Epidemiology
• Infectious Disease
• Center for Health Statistics
• Information Technology
• Public Health Laboratories
• Emergency Preparedness and Response”

[Sneezyone]

47 minutes ago, Pawz4me said:

I hope this isn't too political, but I've read several fact check type articles that say the CDC's budget has never been cut. Yes, the current administration wanted to (and still does--deep cuts are in their most recent budget proposal), but Congress disagreed. This AP article states: "Trump’s budgets have proposed cuts to public health, only to be overruled by Congress, where there’s strong bipartisan support for agencies such as the CDC and NIH. Instead, financing has increased."

To my way of thinking that makes the bungling even worse. Can't blame it on lack of funding.

 

It's not a lack of funding. It's mismanagement.

[Terabith]

1 hour ago, Acadie said:

Agreed--the number of things they've already screwed up is truly mind-boggling.

1. The WHO offered tests, but we turned them down and said we'd make our own.

2. One reagent in the CDC kits sent to states was not working properly.

3. This may be related to number 2, but a visiting scientist found contamination in the CDC lab and it's been shut down, with test production moved to a commercial lab.

4. They prohibited states from using their own tests or those made by other labs while their own tests were unavailable

5. The criteria for testing have been way too narrow--many people with travel history to regions other than China who are suffering with symptoms have been refused testing

6. Until this past weekend, less than 500 people in the US had been tested, so we have absolutely no idea what's happening

7. They squandered the crucial window when we knew what was going on in other countries, and could have prepared health care systems here

8. They allowed the focus to be exclusively on travel restrictions (contagion coming in from outside the country) rather than collecting data on what was happening inside the US

9.  They brought back infected people on flights with healthy people against the advice of the CDC.  

10.  The people who cared for the folks in quarantine didn't wear protective gear and weren't themselves put in quarantine.  

The whole management has been a massive comedy of errors from start to finish.  

[Twolittleboys]

The more I think about Florida specifically  the worse it seems. Disney World (and of course Universal) has so many visitors from everywhere and I can't imagine many scenarios where germs would spread easier than there - with standing in line for rides, sitting close to strangers on rides/for shows, crowding together for parades/fireworks, restaurants, touching ride vehicles etc. one sick person could easily infect dozens or even hundreds. Most of which will then disperse all over the country...

I would have thought regular tests of front-line employees in the parks would at least show if there is a problem. As there are many young/healthy visitors it is likely that it would take a while until anyone got seriously sick. I guess you couldn't do much about contact tracing in a park but you could at least shut it down if there really were a bunch of infections. I realize this wouldn't be good for Disney/the economy in the short term but if it turns out that the parks are a major hub for the disease (and enough people eventually get very sick) it will not be good for the company in the long term either.

[Pen]

1 hour ago, DoraBora said:

Is it spreading as quickly in these warmer regions as it has in Wuhan? 

I'm not advocating putting one's head in the sand.  I'm really agreeing that we just don't know what will happen (and trying to take a slightly more hopeful stance).

 

Singapore is warm and was having rapid spread until lockdown measures were taken.  

Much spread seemed to be in indoor a/c environments, not outside in the heat, But USA, Canada, Europe, China, Japan, S Korea etc, all have extensive use of indoor spaces too

 

 

[Renai]

3 hours ago, Joker said:

Just read that a patient in San Antonio was cleared by CDC and released into the public. It was a false negative and they now test positive. 

I read it was a weak positive after two negatives. Two negatives are required prior to release.

 

2 hours ago, gardenmom5 said:

considering Dr. Li  (one of the eight drs who broke the news of this virus at new years) was 34 -is the risk level for those under 40 really as low as is claimed?

Dr. Li was also on the frontlines helping patients, so the viral load his body received was much greater than 34 year olds who get it in passing.

 

56 minutes ago, Happymomof1 said:

 

I'm just confused about what to do to be honest.  No one is talking about it in my part of Texas.  Everyone is planning mission trips and other trips as usual...  

My mom is in Central Texas and she said the same thing. I asked because I'm leaving for there this weekend.

[Pen]

1 hour ago, Acadie said:

Agreed--the number of things they've already screwed up is truly mind-boggling.

1. The WHO offered tests, but we turned them down and said we'd make our own.

2. One reagent in the CDC kits sent to states was not working properly.

3. This may be related to number 2, but a visiting scientist found contamination in the CDC lab and it's been shut down, with test production moved to a commercial lab.

4. They prohibited states from using their own tests or those made by other labs while their own tests were unavailable

5. The criteria for testing have been way too narrow--many people with travel history to regions other than China who are suffering with symptoms have been refused testing

6. Until this past weekend, less than 500 people in the US had been tested, so we have absolutely no idea what's happening

7. They squandered the crucial window when we knew what was going on in other countries, and could have prepared health care systems here

8. They allowed the focus to be exclusively on travel restrictions (contagion coming in from outside the country) rather than collecting data on what was happening inside the US

 

I agree with you but ran out of my likes for the day... unless it resets 

[gardenmom5]

32 minutes ago, Laurie said:

Maybe I'm wrong, but the fact that the story mentions that the mother is a retired nurse makes me wonder if this is a case of someone on the staff favoring the retired nurse's family over the other man with the broken hip. 

I hadn't heard about the man with the broken hip...I'm angry for his family!  

here's Bonnie Holstead with her sign.

this care facility was cited as recently as last fall for poor germ management, and a having issues with things spreading.
 

 

[gardenmom5]

3 minutes ago, Renai said:

 

 

My mom is in Central Texas and she said the same thing. I asked because I'm leaving for there this weekend.

I should ask 2dd.  She's at a hospital in the DFW area.

[Amira]

59 minutes ago, Acadie said:

Thank you for fact checking this. My quick search confirms that proposed cuts have thus far been overruled by Congress, and I'll edit my post to reflect that.

I do believe the National Security Council position that coordinates response to epidemics was eliminated.

I also heard local health officials in Washington state talking about trying to deal with the epidemic while understaffed due to budget cuts, but I don't know exactly how state or local boards of health are funded. Probably a combination of state and federal funds.

Yes, and other funding cuts had a serious impact on the ability of the US to deal with outbreaks like this. This article is two years old and details future funding shortages. It’s worth reading the entire article.

Quote

Four years after the United States pledged to help the world fight infectious-disease epidemics such as Ebola, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is dramatically downsizing its epidemic prevention activities in 39 out of 49 countries because money is running out, U.S. government officials said.

The CDC programs, part of a global health security initiative, train front-line workers in outbreak detection and work to strengthen laboratory and emergency response systems in countries where disease risks are greatest. The goal is to stop future outbreaks at their source.

Quote

The CDC plans to narrow its focus to 10 “priority countries,” starting in October 2019, the official said. They are India, Thailand and Vietnam in Asia; Jordan in the Middle East; Kenya, Uganda, Liberia, Nigeria and Senegal in Africa; and Guatemala in Central America.

Countries where the CDC is planning to scale back include some of the world’s hot spots for emerging infectious disease, such as China, Pakistan, Haiti, Rwanda and Congo. Last year, when Congo experienced a potentially deadly Ebola outbreak in a remote, forested area, CDC-trained disease detectives and rapid responders helped contain it quickly.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2018/02/01/cdc-to-cut-by-80-percent-efforts-to-prevent-global-disease-outbreak/

[Arcadia]

From BBC https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-51697644

“Coronavirus: Staff force Louvre closure over infection fears

People queued up outside the Louvre on Sunday but were not allowed in

The Louvre museum in Paris has remained shut amid concerns over France's coronavirus outbreak.

Staff at the Louvre - the most visited museum in world - voted "almost unanimously" not to open on Sunday, a union representative said.

On Saturday the French government banned all indoor gatherings of more than 5,000 people, in an effort to curb the spread of the new coronavirus.

France has reported 100 cases of the Covid-19 disease. Two people have died.

Queues formed outside the museum's iconic pyramid in the rain, but the doors remained shut.

A statement on the museum's website said a meeting was reviewing the "public health situation linked to Covid-19 prevention measures" announced by the government.

The previous day, an emergency cabinet meeting banned large gatherings "in confined spaces", as well as open-air events such as Sunday's Paris half-marathon. 

Union official Christian Galani told AFP news agency: "The meeting was arranged to discuss the concerns of staff", adding management representatives were unable to convince workers to go to work.

"The Louvre is a confined space which welcomes more than 5,000 people a day," Mr Galani said. "There is real concern on the part of staff."”

[Pen]

I’m paused for a break in the middle of errands in Eugene, Oregon right now.  I went to DMV and post office .  Too crowded, people too close, lots of coughing and sniffling.  Only cleaning I saw done was the DMV machine to look in to test vision—and nowhere near well enough . The forehead bar used to make it light up was wiped, but not area where person after person breathes on it.  Besides the customer people there for DMV business having a lot of sickness and/or allergy symptoms, so did a worker who had a line of person after person who had to go up to stand about 2 feet from the worker.

[Laurie]

19 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

here's Bonnie Holstead with her sign.

this care facility was cited as recently as last fall for poor germ management, and a having issues with things spreading.
 

 

Thank you for the link.   

I think she should Get Jesse!

[Arcadia]

@mathnerd @daijobu

From abc7news https://abc7news.com/health/2-more-coronavirus-cases-in-santa-clara-county-1-in-san-mateo-county/5979380/

“SANTA CLARA COUNTY, Calif. (KGO) -- Two more novel coronavirus have been confirmed in Santa Clara County and one new case has been confirmed in San Mateo County.

Both of the new cases in Santa Clara County are males and had household contact with other patients confirmed to have coronavirus. They are both now under home isolation. That brings the total of coronavirus cases in the county to nine.

San Mateo County first case is an adult who is currently in isolation at the hospital. The county says the source of that person's exposure is unknown at this time.”

Edited March 2, 2020 by Arcadia

[Aura]

What are your plans for toothbrushes? I was looking at powered toothbrushes for youngest kids at the dentist's suggestion, which got me thinking about all of them. I supposed I could run them through the dishwasher on the sanitize cycle every night--but not powered ones. Maybe soak each one in a tray of hydrogen peroxide, since peroxide is supposed to kill the virus--again not the powered ones?

ETA: I guess powered ones are out, cause I don't see an easy way to keep those clean.

 

Edited March 2, 2020 by Aura

[Pen]

6 minutes ago, Aura said:

What are your plans for toothbrushes? I was looking at powered toothbrushes for youngest kids at the dentist's suggestion, which got me thinking about all of them. I supposed I could run them through the dishwasher on the sanitize cycle every night--but not powered ones. Maybe soak each one in a tray of hydrogen peroxide, since peroxide is supposed to kill the virus--again not the powered ones?

ETA: I guess powered ones are out, cause I don't see an easy way to keep those clean.

 

 

Soap and warm water to clean non electrical end?

Upthread, @BeachGal mentioned ozone, could an ozone cleaner work? 

Either directly or through ozoned water that they could then have working end dip into for however long needed?

Some power ones could have heads that come off base and probably the head part could  be run through dishwasher 

Edited March 2, 2020 by Pen

[Terabith]

I'm really regretting that we don't have a dishwasher.  We don't have a great way to sanitize anything.  We handwash.  Could pour boiling water over stuff, but even that isn't as good as a dishwasher.  

[Aura]

1 minute ago, Pen said:

 

Upthread, @BeachGal mentioned ozone, could an ozone cleaner work? 

Some power ones could have heads that come off base and probably the head part could  be run through dishwasher 

What is an ozone cleaner? I see ozone generators ($$$) and air purifiers ($$) but I don't know how that would work for toothbrushes? I'm not familiar with ozone anything, really.

[Pen]

1 minute ago, Terabith said:

I'm really regretting that we don't have a dishwasher.  We don't have a great way to sanitize anything.  We handwash.  Could pour boiling water over stuff, but even that isn't as good as a dishwasher.  

 

Long time no dishwasher (till recently) person here:

Some dishes can be sanitized in oven 350 deg for ~1 hour (if they won’t break) as can much cutlery and even some glass can be .

Many things that can’t be boiled or baked could be treated with H2O2 or ethanol wiping. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

I disinfect the heads of my Sonicare (which come off) in a dilute bleach solution. 

[Pen]

3 minutes ago, Aura said:

What is an ozone cleaner? I see ozone generators ($$$) and air purifiers ($$) but I don't know how that would work for toothbrushes? I'm not familiar with ozone anything, really.

 

I tagged @BeachGal hoping she’ll explain more.  I think ozone generator is what I meant and that maybe some can be used to infuse water with ozone (through a tube).  I think for air use they need box or closed small area because ozone can damage lungs.

I don’t know how it would affect electronics. 

I ordered one, but it hasn’t arrived yet so no personal experience yet.  I decided that since son is in public school, his back pack, books, etc, are germy—which normally doesn’t trouble me all that much.  But with the Covid-19 it does. 

[TravelingChris]

2 hours ago, gardenmom5 said:

considering Dr. Li  (one of the eight drs who broke the news of this virus at new years) was 34 -is the risk level for those under 40 really as low as is claimed?

THere have been a number of medical people who have gotten sick and were young and I believe at least one other died.  A 23 year old female soccer (football) player died in Qom, Iran.  

Now as SneezyOne and I have been saying--- there are lots of people with underlying conditions--- a very significant number.  If you just look at sports, there are a lot of asthma patients who play professional or very advanced amateur sports like Olympics.  Having an underlying condition doesn't mean one is generally unhealthy in a lot of cases.  I, for one, think that most people have something and the ones who supposedly don;'t are ones who just have mild conditions or haven't been diagnosed.  

[Aura]

5 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

I tagged @BeachGal hoping she’ll explain more.  I think ozone generator is what I meant and that maybe some can be used to infuse water with ozone (through a tube).  I think for air use they need box or closed small area because ozone can damage lungs.

I don’t know how it would affect electronics. 

I ordered one, but it hasn’t arrived yet so no personal experience yet.  I decided that since son is in public school, his back pack, books, etc, are germy—which normally doesn’t trouble me all that much.  But with the Covid-19 it does. 

Ugh, didn't think about that, either. I have some in PS., too.

[Katy]

24 minutes ago, Aura said:

What are your plans for toothbrushes? I was looking at powered toothbrushes for youngest kids at the dentist's suggestion, which got me thinking about all of them. I supposed I could run them through the dishwasher on the sanitize cycle every night--but not powered ones. Maybe soak each one in a tray of hydrogen peroxide, since peroxide is supposed to kill the virus--again not the powered ones?

ETA: I guess powered ones are out, cause I don't see an easy way to keep those clean.

 

 

If you have coronavirus on your toothbrush you already have coronavirus.  Don't share toothbrushes and don't worry about it.

16 minutes ago, Terabith said:

I'm really regretting that we don't have a dishwasher.  We don't have a great way to sanitize anything.  We handwash.  Could pour boiling water over stuff, but even that isn't as good as a dishwasher.  

 

Eh, use HOT water (so hot it will burn your hands and you must use gloves) and it will likely work better than a dishwasher.  Really.  MANY nurses I know don't trust dishwashers at all.

[Terabith]

2 minutes ago, Plum said:

Courtesy of my local news.....

MYTHS

You will not catch the coronavirus from parcels and letters from China or any country where there has been an outbreak.
 

I have to admit I have been a bit worried about mail if postal workers have COVID (fomites) or amazon warehouse workers with packages.  

[Sneezyone]

26 minutes ago, Plum said:

There has been and always will be  plenty of mismanagement and mistakes with every virus. 
Remember the nurse that treated Ebola patients getting on a plane after asking the CDC if it was ok because she had a fever? People with SARS getting on planes? H1N1 vaccines getting held up because of logistics complications? Travel bans are always questioned. 

These plans are only as good as the people and the resources they are given. They create these plans when there is no emergency but must adjust them to react to the current one. Once the virus has run its course, they review lessons learned and implement into the plan. It’s not like epidemics happen every day. 

And let’s face it. Everything is an emergency these days. There are no measured practical responses anymore. Everything has to be a 10. People are only looking for overreaction, not calm rational responses. The media fuels the panic and the CDC and WHO do their best to explain, but when a chunk of the country avoid Corona beer because of the name, we can confirm science literacy and common sense in the general public is minimal. 

Ebola had a lower R-naught and was transmitted by direct contact with infected blood, secretions, tissues, organs and other bodily fluids. It isn't a respiratory virus. That's not exactly the same as respiratory droplets from people who cough or sneeze thinking it's only a mild 'cold'. It was probably bad advice but the risks were certainly lower as born out by the fact that she infected zero individuals. This is a false equivalency. *OUR* government did not put SARS patients on planes and greet them without proper PPE.

Edited March 2, 2020 by Sneezyone

[Arcadia]

9 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

I tagged @BeachGal hoping she’ll explain more.  I think ozone generator is what I meant and that maybe some can be used to infuse water with ozone (through a tube).  I think for air use they need box or closed small area because ozone can damage lungs.

 

3 minutes ago, Aura said:

Ugh, didn't think about that, either. I have some in PS., too.

FYI

https://www.epa.gov/indoor-air-quality-iaq/ozone-generators-are-sold-air-cleaners
“Several brands of ozone generators have EPA establishment number on their packaging. This number helps EPA identify the specific facility that produces the product. The display of this number does not imply EPA endorsement or suggest in any way that EPA has found the product to be either safe or effective.

Please Note: EPA does not certify air cleaning devices. The Agency does not recommend air cleaning devices or manufacturers. If you need information on specific devices or manufacturers, one resource you can consult is the Association of Home Appliance Manufacturers (AHAM)EXIT, (202) 872-5955. AHAM conducts four certification programs for each category - room air cleaners, room air conditioners, dehumidifiers and refrigerator/freezers. The air cleaner certification program is known as AC-1.”

 

https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/our-work/programs/air-cleaners-ozone-products/hazardous-ozone-generating-air-purifiers

“Unlike the situation in air, ozone can be used successfully to purify water in some applications. This is because high levels of ozone can be used in the water, most of the ozone reacts in the water, and people typically are not present when the ozone is used.

How much ozone do ozone generators produce?

Ozone generators can produce indoor ozone levels several times higher than the State's outdoor 1-hr and 8-hr health standards of 90 parts per billion (ppb) and 70 ppb respectively. Many commercial ozone generators emit more than 5,000 mg of ozone per hour of operation, which could result in unhealthy levels of ozone in indoor air.

What are the adverse health effects from exposure to ozone?

People who buy ozone generators may not be aware that ozone can harm the cells in the lungs and respiratory airways. Exposure to ozone irritates and inflames the lining of the respiratory system. This causes symptoms including coughing, chest tightness, shortness of breath, and impaired breathing. Ozone can worsen asthma symptoms, and may contribute to the development of asthma. Elevated exposures to ozone can cause permanent lung damage, and repeated exposure can even increase the risk of dying among persons already in poor health. Persons especially vulnerable to health problems from breathing ozone include children and those who already suffer from asthma or other respiratory diseases, including the elderly. There are many experimental studies on animals, including dogs, cats, hamsters and guinea pigs, that show respiratory effects from exposure to ozone.  Birds are especially sensitive to the effects of air pollutants, including ozone.

... 

What does CARB recommend?

CARB strongly advises against the use of ozone generators in spaces occupied by people or animals. Other governmental agencies agree with this advice. CARB provides a list of potentially hazardous ozone generators sold as "air purifiers", which is periodically updated. If an ozone generator is not on this list, it does not mean that it is safe for use. ”

NY link https://www.health.ny.gov/environmental/indoors/air/ozone_generating_air_cleaners.htm

[Sneezyone]

9 minutes ago, Plum said:

Courtesy of my local news.....

MYTHS

You will not catch the coronavirus from parcels and letters from China or any country where there has been an outbreak.
Putting bleach under your nose will not stop you from getting the coronzvirus and can be dangerous if used on skin.
Rinsing your nostrils out with saline will not protect you from coronavirus. There is limited evidence it will help you recover more quickly from common cold.
Spraying alcohol all over your body will not kill viruses that have already entered your body.
Hand dryers are not effective in killing COVID-19.
Sesame oil does not kill the new coronavirus.
UV lamps also should not be used to sterilize hands or other areas of skin.
Gargling mouthwash will not protect your from the coronavirus.
Eating garlic also will not protect you from the coronavirus.
The World Health Organization says there no evidence to suggest household pets (cats and dogs) can be infected with the new coronavirus.
Vaccines against pneumonia and influenza do not protect you from the coronavirus. However, you should get them because the flu kills thousands of people every year.

 

This is the kind of information that isn't totally helpful. SARS-Coronavirus-2 has been shown to survive on HARD surfaces. If you are receiving packages in cardboard boxes, it's probably fine. Packages in plastic or other non-porous containers may not be.

Edited March 2, 2020 by Sneezyone

[gardenmom5]

43 minutes ago, Laurie said:

Thank you for the link.   

I think she should Get Jesse!

I don't know that it would do any good. 

however, with six *confirmed* cases (one death) and close to 50ish highly suspected/symptomatic cases linked with this facility (and two dozen emergency personal now in quarantine because of responding to this facility - and a school that is in lockdown because student nurses from there went to this facility) -  I agree NO ONE should be being allowed inside except medical personal who know what they're doing,  however, the staff should be answering phones and talking to loved ones.

Edited March 2, 2020 by gardenmom5

[Terabith]

Just now, Plum said:

"Yes, it is safe. People receiving packages from China are not at risk of contracting the new coronavirus. From previous analysis, we know coronaviruses do not survive long on objects, such as letters or packages."

https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/advice-for-public/myth-busters

Yeah, I wouldn't worry so much about packages from China, because the length of time before it arrives at my house is pretty long.  But if, say, a postal worker who handles mail in a processing facility or who delivers the mail coughs or sneezes either directly on the package or on hands and then handles the package?  

Or what about amazon prime?  Two days....  The folks who work in those warehouses have pretty terrible working conditions and are likely to come to work sick.  They're handling the product as it is packaged.  It would be helpful to know how long it can survive on different types of surfaces.  

[Sneezyone]

6 minutes ago, Plum said:

"Yes, it is safe. People receiving packages from China are not at risk of contracting the new coronavirus. From previous analysis, we know coronaviruses do not survive long on objects, such as letters or packages."

https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/advice-for-public/myth-busters

@Sneezyonewho was also responding to this. Most of the myth list came from WHO.

 

So...AGAIN...every picture in that link (which is a simplified comms message not a medical analysis one) is a POROUS surface. There are ample medical/journal reports of HARD surface survival (bus poles, restroom faucets, etc.) hence all the disinfecting that is going on.  https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/02/health/coronavirus-how-it-spreads.html

Edited March 2, 2020 by Sneezyone

[Arcadia]

17 minutes ago, Terabith said:

I have to admit I have been a bit worried about mail if postal workers have COVID (fomites) or amazon warehouse workers with packages.  

https://www.federalwaymirror.com/news/coronavirus-reaches-federal-way-as-usps-employee-tests-positive/
“A USPS spokesperson confirmed with the Mirror the employee works at the Seattle Network Distribution Center at 34301 9th Ave. S. in Federal Way.

According to Public Health Seattle and King County, the person was one of the four King County cases already reported. The woman in her 50s had traveled to South Korea and is recovering at home, according to Public Health.

The incident was not mail-related, according to USPS.

“The employees at the facility primarily work with automated equipment that sorts packages and bundles of mail,” according to a statement from USPS, which noted the company will continue to closely monitor the coronavirus situation. “There are no customer interactions at this facility. In consultation with the Seattle and King County Public Health Department, we have been informed the current risk to other employees is low.””

 

[Arcadia]

NBC News https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/live-blog/coronavirus-updates-live-countries-prepare-outbreak-spreads-n1143556

(ETA: 6 deaths in total now https://www.doh.wa.gov/emergencies/coronavirus )

“3 more dead in Washington state, bringing total to 5

Three more people have died from the virus in Washington state, public health officials announced Monday.

The latest deaths bring the total to five in the state and in the United States, health officials said.

Daniel Arkin

52m ago / 11:11 AM PST“

ETA: @Laurie @gardenmom5 @Lawyer&Mom @Jean in Newcastle @Aura

Edited March 2, 2020 by Arcadia

[mlktwins]

9 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

https://www.federalwaymirror.com/news/coronavirus-reaches-federal-way-as-usps-employee-tests-positive/
“A USPS spokesperson confirmed with the Mirror the employee works at the Seattle Network Distribution Center at 34301 9th Ave. S. in Federal Way.

According to Public Health Seattle and King County, the person was one of the four King County cases already reported. The woman in her 50s had traveled to South Korea and is recovering at home, according to Public Health.

The incident was not mail-related, according to USPS.

“The employees at the facility primarily work with automated equipment that sorts packages and bundles of mail,” according to a statement from USPS, which noted the company will continue to closely monitor the coronavirus situation. “There are no customer interactions at this facility. In consultation with the Seattle and King County Public Health Department, we have been informed the current risk to other employees is low.””

 

I used to work for USPS (internal audits) and they do work with other employees (not customers) and touch the packages.  Those packages then get sorted onto trucks and planes (and there is contact with other USPS employees or truck/plane drivers/pilots) and go to other states where they go to facilities with automated equipment for sorting and so on, until they end up at our local USPS and your local carrier distributes to you.

ETA: I worked for USPS when Anthrax was a thing and audited how well USPS was developing software to put on the machines to detect anthrax as the mail was being processed - before it was delivered.

Edited March 2, 2020 by mlktwins

[TravelingChris]

2 hours ago, Acadie said:

Agreed--the number of things they've already screwed up is truly mind-boggling.

1. The WHO offered tests, but we turned them down and said we'd make our own.

2. One reagent in the CDC kits sent to states was not working properly.

3. This may be related to number 2, but a visiting scientist found contamination in the CDC lab and it's been shut down, with test production moved to a commercial lab.

4. They prohibited states from using their own tests or those made by other labs while their own tests were unavailable

5. The criteria for testing have been way too narrow--many people with travel history to regions other than China who are suffering with symptoms have been refused testing

6. Until this past weekend, less than 500 people in the US had been tested, so we have absolutely no idea what's happening

7. They squandered the crucial window when we knew what was going on in other countries, and could have prepared health care systems here

8. They allowed the focus to be exclusively on travel restrictions (contagion coming in from outside the country) rather than collecting data on what was happening inside the US

Earlier last week I was watching a news show that had a former CDC person and one other relevant health person talking (can't remember from what agency or University).  Both of them said what needed to be done now is testing absolutely everyone turning up at ER, urgent care, etc with pneumonia and negative flu test.  They both stressed that no one shouldn't be out of the loop of testing because of where they traveled or whom they have been in contact with because of the fact that they both believed it was already out in the community 

The task force that has been set up as of late last week is preparing executive orders or some such provisions to do things like in this emergency mandate sick leave, allocate money so that people can get tested and treated regardless of having insurance or not or having high deductibles, etc. This was what I was hearing from VP Pence in the short part of a long interview I just caught the tale end of.

As a doctorate student in criminal justice many years ago, I had to take a class on bureaucracies.  I do not remember all that much that I learned but the main point I did get is that bureaucracies tend toward inertia.  And different countries have different management styles too.  For example, there was criticism in Japan about their response and criticism specifically talked about the fact that the decisions were made by managers without health experience and without getting help from health experts.  The Japanese management style is that one doesn't criticise or contradict a superior----- that is a very bad policy specifically when emergencies happen.  The main reason President Trump appointed VP Pence to lead the group of experts in coming to consensus is because a) we have a lot of different agencies that need to be involved from different departments and b) to make sure were are getting consistent messages and procedures in place.  Pence and the non CDC people were the ones who said we need to get much more testing out there.  Another big issue in bureaucracies, is that people try to keep power w their agency or area and the different agencies become competitors for power and money. 

[Renai]

Dr. John Campbell's report today says that similarities in viruses has him thinking COVID19 has been in California for 6 weeks already. I keep thinking of the (at least) 7,000 that arrived from affected areas between Feb. 2-19 without being told to self-quarantine until Feb. 20th. How about those that arrived before?