Jump to content

Menu

Recommended Posts

1 minute ago, Garga said:

Looks like it will: http://www.dfwx.com/answers.htm

It breaks down into water and gas, and then the water expands.

 

 I Guess I better go find all grocery bags with anything liquid including H2O2 .  I was hoping only to unload “perishables” tonight, but it’s possible that every single bag has a perishable from POV of liquid freezing, expanding and breaking container. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 18.2k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • Ausmumof3

    3022

  • Pen

    2298

  • square_25

    1706

  • Arcadia

    1337

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

DS got home 3 hours ago!  ❤️❤️

Update-  my youngest is not only short of breath, coughing, dizzy, nausaues, and with headache-  she is also confused.  I called our doctor and talked with him and she is going to be going to the ER.

That's not a blanket right.  If my religion required human sacrifice, I can't practice it.  If my religion required sexual assault, I can't practice it. Freedom of religion isn't a blanket right

Posted Images

8 minutes ago, Pen said:

Does anyone know if H2O2 expands like H20 does if temperature goes below 0 deg Celsius?

 

 

3 minutes ago, Garga said:

Looks like it will: http://www.dfwx.com/answers.htm

It breaks down into water and gas, and then the water expands.

Wait....I just read something else that says it contracts.  

Hmmm....maybe just keep in a cool, dark location and don’t bother with the freezing just to be on the safe side.. 

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Pen said:

 

 I Guess I better go find all grocery bags with anything liquid including H2O2 .  I was hoping only to unload “perishables” tonight, but it’s possible that every single bag has a perishable from POV of liquid freezing, expanding and breaking container. 

Yeah...I’d go get them.  Even if they don’t explode, it seems like the sort of material that shouldn’t be subject to extreme temperatures.

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, mathnerd said:

Thanks, @Arcadia. Does anyone know how/why this 4th case who is neither ill nor hospitalized got tested for coronavirus? This is puzzling to me because in this county, doctors had to urge CDC very strongly for days in order to access a testing kit for the 3rd case because that person did not have any travel history or exposure. So, how could a woman who is not ill have been tested? (wondering if this person was in one of the cruise ships and was tested as part of the quarantine or if she was related to the other cases and hence tested).

 

"The County of Santa Clara Public Health Department says it is an adult woman who is a household contact of the third Santa Clara County case that was reported Friday." https://www.kron4.com/health/coronavirus/4th-case-of-coronavirus-confirmed-in-santa-clara-county/

Susan in TX

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I really hope this isn't true (I can't find it listed anywhere else online, so I'm skeptical), although he has been sick... I'm mainly posting this since I haven't seen anyone mention this possibility, and the impact it would have. I'm not Catholic, but I'll be praying for him! 

https://mcmnt.com/vatican-confirms-pope-francis-and-two-aides-test-positive-for-coronavirus/

  • Sad 5
Link to post
Share on other sites

I think hydrogen peroxide loses the oxygen when exposed to heat or light and becomes just water?  However they usually put it in brown bottles to protect and ours lives in the laundry through an Aussie summer and still works

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Pen said:

Does anyone know if H2O2 expands like H20 does if temperature goes below 0 deg Celsius?

 

The hydrogen peroxide solution you bought will be at least 70% water (if you bought a 30% solution) so it's not the hydrogen peroxide you need to worry about expanding, it's the water that makes up most of the solution.  So yes - the solution will expand if it freezes.

Signed,

Your friendly neighbourhood chemistry teacher 🙂

  • Like 8
  • Thanks 3
  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I should also point out that hydrogen peroxide, while making an excellent disinfectant, will easily and quickly breakdown into water and oxygen gas.  An unopened bottle of hydrogen peroxide will last about a year assuming that you've kept the solution in the opaque bottle and stored it somewhere cool (the bathroom is the WORST place to store most things as the heat from people showering and bathing will increase the rate of decomposition of most chemicals).  After you've opened the bottle, the solution will be effective for 30-45 days - less if you've transferred it to a non-opaque bottle (UV light accelerates the breakdown of hydrogen peroxide) or if you're storing it in a warm place.

  • Like 4
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Oregon, 2 significant cities south of Portland where cases are confirmed.  It was very, very busy.  I did not notice significant outages.  But I did not go into big box stores or big supermarkets where that type of buying up is most likely.    They had sales on some potentially relevant items.  

I rather late noticed that Clif energy bars were on a buy 1 get one free sale (with a limit on how many total, I think, but I was too tired to go back and get some at the point I realized.   Some things seemed out as to certain flavors, but not generally out.  

I don’t have handwipes but do see where they could help.  I stopped by a liquor store (or off license; bottle shop etc) and got some ethanol to make my own wipes and tinctures.  Liquor store would usually be at least somewhat busy on a Saturday was the only place I went that was not crowded.

Some people were seeming to be preparing for more ice/snow as well as probably for virus. No one was seeming to be talking about it. 

I ran into an old friend who used to be seriously OCD, re hand washing, fear of touching, etc etc... ironically she seemed to have gotten over it.  She was very touchy feely, not cleaning her hands, not using tissues to handle objects.   I would rather not have been all huggy, but decided chances she is currently infected are slim, and didn’t say anything.  I was happy to see her so very improved in emotional sense. I hope this won’t set her back. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, Garga said:

 

Wait....I just read something else that says it contracts.  

Hmmm....maybe just keep in a cool, dark location and don’t bother with the freezing just to be on the safe side.. 

 

It’s still outside where it’s hovering around freezing and clearly going to go below during night.  Sigh. I will dutifully press onward.  I am only human home. Exercise!

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, mathnerd said:

Thanks, @Arcadia. Does anyone know how/why this 4th case who is neither ill nor hospitalized got tested for coronavirus?


It’s a typo by abc7news on Facebook 

https://abc7news.com/health/santa-clara-county-health-department-confirms-its-4th-case-of-novel-coronavirus/5976313/

county press release link https://www.sccgov.org/sites/phd/news/Pages/fourth-case-novel-coronavirus-2-29-2020.aspx?fbclid=IwAR0b-A72BdYvU7ctFACn5zJ1P1vgabVXBMfFnawSDCZabCInIEnnectCB6c

“SANTA CLARA COUNTY, Calif. (KGO) -- A new case of the novel coronavirus in Santa Clara County was confirmed by health officials Saturday.

The county's health department says this is their fourth case.

The patient is an adult woman who is a household contact of the third Santa Clara County case, and is "not hospitalized or ill," officials said.”

 

0F15398B-9495-45AA-B5D2-5FFB80041D2A.jpeg

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, Happy Camper said:

I really hope this isn't true (I can't find it listed anywhere else online, so I'm skeptical), although he has been sick... I'm mainly posting this since I haven't seen anyone mention this possibility, and the impact it would have. I'm not Catholic, but I'll be praying for him! 

https://mcmnt.com/vatican-confirms-pope-francis-and-two-aides-test-positive-for-coronavirus/

 

If so, not only a problem for him, but he will have had huge numbers of contacts, kissed many babies...

  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Carrie12345 said:

Re: Clorox wipes (and others) - they don’t kill on contact. Their time is supposedly around 10 minutes to full effectiveness (?). My unscientific opinion is that they’re still better than nothing.

Re: hand sanitizer - How many times do you touch your face and other objects in between hand washing?

Is there a better solution? At work we have shared keyboards (yucky on so many levels), and I use the Lysol wipes on keyboard, phone, chair, desk before starting, but I certainly can’t let it sit for 10 minutes.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, Happy Camper said:

I really hope this isn't true (I can't find it listed anywhere else online, so I'm skeptical), although he has been sick... I'm mainly posting this since I haven't seen anyone mention this possibility, and the impact it would have. I'm not Catholic, but I'll be praying for him! 

https://mcmnt.com/vatican-confirms-pope-francis-and-two-aides-test-positive-for-coronavirus/

There's an old joke that the Vatican admits the Pope is sick three days after he dies. They denied that John Paul II had Parkinson's for years after it was evident to the world. No, he doesn't have Covid; if he did, they certainly wouldn't be telling us.

  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites

@mathnerd

For the 3rd case. 4th is linked to 3rd, household contact

https://www.mv-voice.com/news/2020/02/28/as-third-coronavirus-case-comes-to-light-in-santa-clara-county-palo-alto-unified-alerted-to-parent-exposed-to-disease
“The third coronavirus case involves an older woman who has chronic health conditions and was hospitalized for a respiratory illness, according to a department press release.

The patient received treatment at El Camino Hospital in Mountain View, according to Richard Angeloni, interim communications director at the hospital. It doesn't appear she was exposed to the virus through travel or had contact with a traveler or someone with the virus.”

Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

@mathnerd

For the 3rd case. 4th is linked to 3rd, household contact

https://www.mv-voice.com/news/2020/02/28/as-third-coronavirus-case-comes-to-light-in-santa-clara-county-palo-alto-unified-alerted-to-parent-exposed-to-disease
“The third coronavirus case involves an older woman who has chronic health conditions and was hospitalized for a respiratory illness, according to a department press release.

The patient received treatment at El Camino Hospital in Mountain View, according to Richard Angeloni, interim communications director at the hospital. It doesn't appear she was exposed to the virus through travel or had contact with a traveler or someone with the virus.”

Thank you.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well that's fun.  We were in Chicago last weekend and we've all had an upper respiratory bug this week.  No fevers but crud & coughing.  The kids are already over it, but DH & I have lingering chest tightness and cough. I guess we're not going to church tomorrow.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, MissLemon said:

 

I really hope so. I griped a few pages back in this thread about a little kid who's grandma brought him to a library program, sick as a dog and wiping his nose on the furniture.  Grandma knew he was sick and brought him out anyway because they were bored.  Guess what? Now my kid is sick, despite washing hands, using hand sanitizer, and trying to stay away from this kid. Thankfully, my family is not medically fragile.  This will just be an annoyance for us.  But boy am I annoyed! We were supposed to visit with kiddo's great grandpa this weekend, and now we can't. Gr. grandpa is 86 and his wife isn't in good health.  I can't bring a sick kid over there.   

I get so frustrated when people act amazed or indignant when told they should stay home when they are sick.  

 

One thing I think that has happened to add to this (besides work and colleges insisting that employees/ students can’t miss days) is that since so many people bring sick kids to things or go when themselves sick it creates an almost permanent passing round of sickness. So a parent will feel if they have to have whole family well, no one would ever get to go anywhere.  For many, that is because other families are bringing their own sick kids to events.  If everyone stayed home when sick there’d almost certainly be less of this tendency toward someone in family always sick problem.  

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Katy said:

Well that's fun.  We were in Chicago last weekend and we've all had an upper respiratory bug this week.  No fevers but crud & coughing.  The kids are already over it, but DH & I have lingering chest tightness and cough. I guess we're not going to church tomorrow.

 

I hope you will all feel well.  Thanks for staying home. 

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

 

1 hour ago, Pen said:

 

It seems to me that a bunch of discussion (rational discussion) not only isn’t “panicking”; it could help to stop what to me does seem like panicking, such as the Ukrainians who attacked the busses with people who were being sent home from cruise ship. 

Or the people in Iran who set fire to clinic that they thought may have had COVID patients.

  • Sad 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

One thing I think that has happened to add to this (besides work and colleges insisting that employees/ students can’t miss days) is that since so many people bring sick kids to things or go when themselves sick it creates an almost permanent passing round of sickness. So a parent will feel if they have to have whole family well, no one would ever get to go anywhere.  For many, that is because other families are bringing their own sick kids to events.  If everyone stayed home when sick there’d almost certainly be less of this tendency toward someone in family always sick problem.  

Granted we have more people than most, but we had the flu in July/August and December/January. Each time it was more than a month from first fever to last kid stopped coughing. And we have a lot less public exposure than most people because we have a few fragile kids. If we were all in public school we would never have a time in the winter when everyone was 100% healthy. We have been very lucky that the only kid who goes to public school is easier to keep separate when he brings home germs.

The one "benefit" to the flu is the quick incubation. Schools close for a week and they can get ahead of it. The incubation for the coronavirus can be sooo long. Asking places to close for weeks at a time would require a huge sacrifice for a lot of people, and we don't seem ready to ask that here.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Patty Joanna said:

That nursing home is less than half a mile from my house.  We have had parishioners stay there in rehab.  It is NOT a top-notch facility.  My dh's MIL was "sent" there for rehab and he raised a FIT about it and got insurance to pay for a different facility--which on the grade scale was a C and STILL a huge improvement over this one. The procedures we saw with our friends' stays there were unimpressive.  

Unfortunately, that information does nothing to bring this sufferer back to life. But I hope it puts the situation in a framework.  I feel really sorry for people in this vulnerable situation, and if/when this hits us, it will be in this sort of environment...close quarters, vulnerable people, unprepared and undisciplined procedures.  

Ugh.  

Also, I have not read or followed this thread in any way, so if anything I have said here is "out of line" please just let it go and move on.  I don't mean any harm.  

 

No, THANK YOU for your post.   We get all kinds of posts here= what to buy, where the virus is, what to do with certain medical conditions, how shopping is in your area, how the virus is or is not in your area, questions about travel, and on and on and on.  You are always welcome to post in this thread. Again, thanks for explaining the conditions at this nursing facility which you experienced personally.  

  • Like 8
  • Thanks 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

@Pen

https://www.oregonlive.com/coronavirus/2020/02/coronavirus-in-oregon-some-are-calm-some-definitely-not.html
“And Costcos around the metro area got cleaned out of supplies -- toilet paper, water and hand sanitizer seemed to be big sellers, if there were any left. Among other popular items: frozen berries and black beans.

Cashiers at both Safeway and Rite Aid in Lake Oswego said they quickly ran out of items like hand sanitizer and hand wipes as news broke Friday night of someone with a presumptive case of coronaviruswho works at the city’s Forest Hills Elementary School.

At the Safeway, more than 30 people lined up at closing time, some buying $500 worth of emergency supplies, and pharmacist Seong Lee said he advised the unusually high influx of people not to panic. Basic hygiene – washing hands and covering coughs and sneezes – is the way to go.

... The parking lot at the warehouse store in Aloha was jammed with cars spilling into the overflow lot. The checkouts were doing brisk business similar to a weekend at Christmastime.

... Customers at the Costco in Tigard, the one closest to Lake Oswego, found themselves in lines 100-people deep, snaking to the back of the store. One shopper arrived at the 9:30 a.m. opening and said 1,000 people or so were waiting to get in. Some people wore masks.

... Employees there said the store ran out of toilet paper for the first time in its history and that it was the busiest they had ever seen.

“Toilet paper," one worker said, "is golden in an apocalypse.”

..: At the Hillsboro Fred Meyer, several items were dwindling or out of stock, including soap, bleach and paper products.”

 

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

What do y'all think about the Wet Ones Anti bacterial wipe?

They have always been my go to because (((supposedly))) the active ingredient--benzethonium chloride-- kills norovirus whereas alcohol does not kill norovirus. Certainly it would also kill NOVID-19--right? Just throwing this out there as an idea because alcohol based hand sanitizers are sold out everywhere, but my husband was able to buy Wet Ones wipes tonight, and I ordered some more from Sams Club tonight. 

Edited by popmom
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, popmom said:

What do y'all think about the Wet Ones Anti bacterial wipe?

They have always been my go to because (((supposedly))) the active ingredient kills norovirus whereas alcohol does not kill norovirus. Certainly it would also kill NOVID-19--right? Just throwing this out there as an idea because alcohol based hand sanitizers are sold out everywhere, but my husband was able to buy Wet Ones wipes tonight, and I ordered some more from Sams Club tonight. 

I bought more of these today as well. I always keep a pack in my purse, as I’ve also heard they can kill norovirus. I think they’re certainly better than nothing and likely as effective as sanitizer if hand washing isn’t available. 

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
You probably read about the first US death at a facility located in WA.  In case you are interested in knowing more, read on.  If not, save yourself the 5 minutes you will never get back.  .  
 
The facility where the death occurred is less than half a mile from my house.  I am familiar with it because we have had parishioners who have been there for rehab--and they left as soon as possible.  It is not a good facility.  My MIL was assigned by her insurance company to go there for rehab after a 6 week hospital stay and my husband raised a complete ruckus about it--and got her into a "C" facility, which was a lot better than this one.  
 
It seems like CoronaVirus affects people in different ways.  The health-compromised are at a much greater risk...and that is exactly who is in a health care facility--the vulnerable--and this is not a top-quality facility.  That it happened at THIS facility is really not a shock.  
 
No one mentions another WA CoronaVirus case who recovered--he was  a younger person, he went to the hospital and he got better.  That case was within 10 miles of my house.  
 
The thing that is most difficult in this situation is that we don't know who to believe about what is going on.  The reports out of Kirkland today are very confusing--"not many cases in the state" and "27 people infected at this facility alone".  Both of these things can't be true.  And the reports out of China?  Seriously?  
 
One of my friends is an expert in global infectious disease.  He's worked with the ebola virus in Africa.  He's pointed out that in the same time frame, 30,000 Americans have died of the flu, and 3,000 people worldwide have died of coronavirus.  Even if the reports of deaths are off by an order of magnitude--which they may be--that is still a big difference.  His other point is that there is a lot to be said for risk management.
 
Wash your hands.  Carry wipes in your car--gas pumps are among the germiest things you can touch.  Don't touch escalator rails if you can help it.  Use your knuckle to press elevator buttons.  Don't touch your face--especially your eyes or mouth.  Stop biting your nails.  Wash your hands again.  :0 That is what my infectious-disease friend says.  
 
And don't think it is outlandish to assume that panic is good for the monetary gain of certain people and organizations. Use common sense.  Stock up on all the things you need when you get sick--gatorade, ibuprofen, food-enough so you can eat for a couple of weeks.  "Stocking up" means coverage for a couple of weeks, not the apocalypse. 
 
That's my 2 cents from "ground zero." 
 
Patty Joanna--who is in the "health compromised" category, and not panicking.  :0)
  • Like 12
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

@Pen

https://www.oregonlive.com/coronavirus/2020/02/coronavirus-in-oregon-some-are-calm-some-definitely-not.html
“And Costcos around the metro area got cleaned out of supplies -- toilet paper, water and hand sanitizer seemed to be big sellers, if there were any left. Among other popular items: frozen berries and black beans.

Cashiers at both Safeway and Rite Aid in Lake Oswego said they quickly ran out of items like hand sanitizer and hand wipes as news broke Friday night of someone with a presumptive case of coronaviruswho works at the city’s Forest Hills Elementary School.

At the Safeway, more than 30 people lined up at closing time, some buying $500 worth of emergency supplies, and pharmacist Seong Lee said he advised the unusually high influx of people not to panic. Basic hygiene – washing hands and covering coughs and sneezes – is the way to go.

... The parking lot at the warehouse store in Aloha was jammed with cars spilling into the overflow lot. The checkouts were doing brisk business similar to a weekend at Christmastime.

... Customers at the Costco in Tigard, the one closest to Lake Oswego, found themselves in lines 100-people deep, snaking to the back of the store. One shopper arrived at the 9:30 a.m. opening and said 1,000 people or so were waiting to get in. Some people wore masks.

... Employees there said the store ran out of toilet paper for the first time in its history and that it was the busiest they had ever seen.

“Toilet paper," one worker said, "is golden in an apocalypse.”

..: At the Hillsboro Fred Meyer, several items were dwindling or out of stock, including soap, bleach and paper products.”

 

...all of which is completely cracking me up because people are far more likely to GET the d*** virus by being around other people. Everyone just stay home and calm down!!!  I mean, seriously:  when you read up on how viruses are passed along, the thing you realize is that gas pumps, escalator rails, shopping cart push-bars, and so on are the very things you don't need to be near.  

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Patty Joanna said:

...all of which is completely cracking me up because people are far more likely to GET the d*** virus by being around other people. Everyone just stay home and calm down!!!  I mean, seriously:  when you read up on how viruses are passed along, the thing you realize is that gas pumps, escalator rails, shopping cart push-bars, and so on are the very things you don't need to be near.  

I'm not so much stocking up to avoid the virus. I'm stocking up in case of a lock down situation. I still have travel plans, shopping plans, life as usual... but if there's an outbreak in my area and I'm told by the government that I need to stay home...I'm prepared. I have no idea what to expect honestly. I do have asthma. I'm preparing for whatever may come.

Edited by popmom
  • Like 10
Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, popmom said:

I'm not so much stocking up to avoid the virus. I'm stocking up in case of a lock down situation. I still have travel plans, shopping plans, life as usual... but if there's an outbreak in my area and I'm told by the government that I need to stay home...I'm prepared. I have no idea what to expect honestly. I do have asthma. I'm preparing for whatever may come.

That's a good plan.  It's a good plan to be ready to have to stay home, and in the case of respiratory issues, it's especially smart.  The thing I meant to point out is that there might be smarter ways to do this than to go out there and by with All The People.  

I hope that you and yours (and all of us) are safe from this..  :0)

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

570 cases for Hubei and 34 death.  Outside Hubei was only 3 new reported cases and 1 death

376 for South Korea

There are currently 86,980 confirmed cases worldwide, including 2,979 fatalities.

Just based off those figures it looks like a 3.4pc case fatality rate right now.   Hubei and Iran are significantly raising that but they have also had the longest time dealing with it so that may be an indicator of what things look like once it’s run it’s course.  Australia has 1death for 25 cases but of course that’s too small a sample size to draw conclusions.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Arcadia said:

@Pen

https://www.oregonlive.com/coronavirus/2020/02/coronavirus-in-oregon-some-are-calm-some-definitely-not.html
“And Costcos around the metro area got cleaned out of supplies -- toilet paper, water and hand sanitizer seemed to be big sellers, if there were any left. Among other popular items: frozen berries and black beans.

Cashiers at both Safeway and Rite Aid in Lake Oswego said they quickly ran out of items like hand sanitizer and hand wipes as news broke Friday night of someone with a presumptive case of coronaviruswho works at the city’s Forest Hills Elementary School.

At the Safeway, more than 30 people lined up at closing time, some buying $500 worth of emergency supplies, and pharmacist Seong Lee said he advised the unusually high influx of people not to panic. Basic hygiene – washing hands and covering coughs and sneezes – is the way to go.

... The parking lot at the warehouse store in Aloha was jammed with cars spilling into the overflow lot. The checkouts were doing brisk business similar to a weekend at Christmastime.

... Customers at the Costco in Tigard, the one closest to Lake Oswego, found themselves in lines 100-people deep, snaking to the back of the store. One shopper arrived at the 9:30 a.m. opening and said 1,000 people or so were waiting to get in. Some people wore masks.

... Employees there said the store ran out of toilet paper for the first time in its history and that it was the busiest they had ever seen.

“Toilet paper," one worker said, "is golden in an apocalypse.”

..: At the Hillsboro Fred Meyer, several items were dwindling or out of stock, including soap, bleach and paper products.”

 

 

I think it (the novel coronavirus) probably already is in Eugene, especially as Eugene is home to the state flagship university with many international students. I think cases are just not identified yet.  I think the Portland area communities where it has already been confirmed are probably more concerned that a lock down could be immanent . (Or maybe more people with high pressure personalities live there. )

“Similar  to a weekend in Christmastime” applies to what I saw as well, Except at the nearly empty liquor store. Busy like Christmas, yes.  Maybe worse.  Several times I considered giving up on a store due to parking being full.  But there weren’t (at stores I was at) nearly empty shelves of certain type items.  

There’s a thing called Oregon Country Fair that attracts a lot of prion summer and roads were like that sort of crowded. Or like home Football game days when it seems that Uof Oregon May make it to Rose Bowl. 

However,  as to emptied shelves, I usually use Amazon for things like toilet paper, so perhaps lacked awareness .

One store was its usual self, another had the look of displays of emergency food and goods—but maybe with the public not having caught on yet. 

I was mostly in fresh foods areas of stores I went to: produce, milk, eggs...   most shoppers were in the packaged and processed parts of store (however that is usually the situation).

 I also did decide to get some elderberry syrup since my son doesn’t have the autoimmunity issue I have, some cough drops in case needed... (the peroxide!) 

Oh, and interesting to me, a “sold out” item was homeopathic Aconite 6C, and barely any in 30C left.  Emergen C was lower than usual and some flavors gone.  

Edited by Pen
Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Patty Joanna said:

.  The thing I meant to point out is that there might be smarter ways to do this than to go out there and by with All The People.  


When I was at Costco, what I saw was mainly one or two person per household buying toilet paper and bottled water.

My area is within Amazon Prime 2hr delivery. Wonder what would happen if most of my neighbors order toilet paper and bottled water through Amazon Prime. Maybe a big UPS truck full of toilet paper and bottled water to my complex.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Global Times

Ma Jianguo, a 24-year-old suspect who killed two #COVID19 epidemic control officials in Honghe county, Yunnan Province at a local epidemic checkpoint with a knife on Feb 6, was sentenced to death for murder on Sunday.

  • Thanks 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, Patty Joanna said:
 
One of my friends is an expert in global infectious disease.  He's worked with the ebola virus in Africa.  He's pointed out that in the same time frame, 30,000 Americans have died of the flu, and 3,000 people worldwide have died of coronavirus.  Even if the reports of deaths are off by an order of magnitude--which they may be--that is still a big difference.  His other point is that there is a lot to be said for risk management.
 

 

It's not the number of deaths that has me concerned.  It's that 18% of the currently infected people are considered serious/critical and need hospitalization. You don't see those sort of numbers with the flu. Less than 2% of diagnosed flu cases require hospitalization. 

I've read infectious disease experts saying that 40-70% of the population will get this virus over the next year.  If 40% of my town gets this virus, that's 10,000 people. If 18% of them need hospitalization, that's 1,800 people. My local hospital has 125 beds. Even if the 1,800 critical patients are distributed evenly over a year, (unlikely to happen), that's still 150 patients needing significant medical support every month for a year, on top of all the "routine emergencies" that the hospital sees. 

Most of those patients would live, yes, but they'd also place an enormous demand on the medical establishment. Patients and staff all do better when there are adequate supplies and staff coverage.  It would be a huge challenge to meet the needs of the community in this situation.   

Edited by MissLemon
  • Like 20
  • Thanks 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Arcadia said:


When I was at Costco, what I saw was mainly one or two person per household buying toilet paper and bottled water.

My area is within Amazon Prime 2hr delivery. Wonder what would happen if most of my neighbors order toilet paper and bottled water through Amazon Prime. Maybe a big UPS truck full of toilet paper and bottled water to my complex.

Amazon was sold out of hand sanitizers for a while (the pumps, not the tiny ones that go on backpacks). I bet that they will sell out of bottled water and toilet paper if everyone ordered through amazon 2 hr delivery!

22 minutes ago, Patty Joanna said:

The thing I meant to point out is that there might be smarter ways to do this than to go out there and by with All The People.  

I watched today, a large number of women driving into Target's "Drive Up" pickup service and waiting there with masks and disposable gloves on and asking the Target employee to load the items from the cart into their car (lots of bottled water and toilet paper) and then using disinfecting wipes to wipe out the packages in the car and then drive away. This seems to be their own "smarter" way to avoid All The People by not stepping foot into a crowded supermarket.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
59 minutes ago, popmom said:

What do y'all think about the Wet Ones Anti bacterial wipe?

They have always been my go to because (((supposedly))) the active ingredient--benzethonium chloride-- kills norovirus whereas alcohol does not kill norovirus. Certainly it would also kill NOVID-19--right? Just throwing this out there as an idea because alcohol based hand sanitizers are sold out everywhere, but my husband was able to buy Wet Ones wipes tonight, and I ordered some more from Sams Club tonight. 

Benzethonium chloride will kill enveloped viruses. Coronavirus is an enveloped virus, so it should kill it, (provided there is enough contact time with the skin). 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

 

17 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

My area is within Amazon Prime 2hr delivery. Wonder what would happen if most of my neighbors order toilet paper and bottled water through Amazon Prime. Maybe a big UPS truck full of toilet paper and bottled water to my complex.

 

Being in a 2hr Prime area could change things quite a lot. People may be stocking things that way. Not so much at store. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

@kirklandgov

confirms with

@KIRO7Seattle

that "several" fire crews are in home quarantine following contact w/ two #coronavirus patients at Life Care Center. Those crews will be out of the mix for at least 14 days.

Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, mathnerd said:

Amazon was sold out of hand sanitizers for a while (the pumps, not the tiny ones that go on backpacks). I bet that they will sell out of bottled water and toilet paper if everyone ordered through amazon 2 hr delivery!

I watched today, a large number of women driving into Target's "Drive Up" pickup service and waiting there with masks and disposable gloves on and asking the Target employee to load the items from the cart into their car (lots of bottled water and toilet paper) and then using disinfecting wipes to wipe out the packages in the car and then drive away. This seems to be their own "smarter" way to avoid All The People by not stepping foot into a crowded supermarket.


My husband’s brother bought a lot of Bath & Bodyworks PowerBac sanitizers (the ones for backpacks https://www.bathandbodyworks.com/c/hand-soaps/all-hand-sanitizers-pocketbac-hand-sanitizer-5-pack) when he came for his children. I didn’t go to Bath & Bodyworks recently so no idea if these are sold out.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, MissLemon said:

 

It's not the number of deaths that has me concerned.  It's that 18% of the currently infected people are considered serious/critical and need hospitalization. You don't see those sort of numbers with the flu. Less than 2% of diagnosed flu cases require hospitalization. 

I've read infectious disease experts saying that 40-70% of the population will get this virus over the next year.  If 40% of my town gets this virus, that's 10,000 people. If 18% of them need hospitalization, that's 1,800 people. My local hospital has 125 beds. Even if the 1,800 critical patients are distributed evenly over a year, (unlikely to happen), that's still 150 patients needing significant medical support every month for a year, on top of all the "routine emergencies" that the hospital sees. 

Most of those patients would live, yes, but they'd also place an enormous demand on the medical establishment. Patients and staff all do better when there are adequate supplies and staff coverage.  It would be a huge challenge to meet the needs of the community in this situation.   

 

Absolutely. I think  This point needs to be made to those who think this is nothing. (Though Some May just be trying to allay fears and help prevent panic— not truly think Covid-19 is equivalent to a typical flu season / year of morbidity and mortality.) 

on down the line of what can happen:

if the patient case load comes in as slower trickle over time the system can handle critical and serious cases.

However,  If the medical system of an area is swamped with cases, more people will die. At some point , if the brakes don’t get put on, such as China seems to have done with extreme lockdown, dead bodies overwhelm the ability of crematoriums. 

This can then lead to  bodies decomposing in people’s homes, and that can lead to more types of illness as bacteria and perhaps even rats  and other scavenging animals are attracted to the scene...  leading to yet more human illness...

 

The number of bacterial infections in the people who were very sick with Covid Pneumonia was troubling. 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

@kirklandgov

confirms with

@KIRO7Seattle

that "several" fire crews are in home quarantine following contact w/ two #coronavirus patients at Life Care Center. Those crews will be out of the mix for at least 14 days.


2mins news clip

 

  • Sad 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
53 minutes ago, MissLemon said:

It's not the number of deaths that has me concerned.  It's that 18% of the currently infected people are considered serious/critical and need hospitalization. You don't see those sort of numbers with the flu. Less than 2% of diagnosed flu cases require hospitalization. 

How does anybody actually know these numbers? They can only be guesses because nobody knows how many mild cases there are where the person does not suspect they have this virus and does not seek medical attention.  They won't get diagnosed if they just think they have some respiratory bug and don't go to the doctor for their cough or fever. There could be many more infected people and we just have no clue. Which would then of course reduce the above percentage.

  • Like 15
  • Thanks 5
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, regentrude said:

How does anybody actually know these numbers? They can only be guesses because nobody knows how many mild cases there are where the person does not suspect they have this virus and does not seek medical attention.  They won't get diagnosed if they just think they have some respiratory bug and don't go to the doctor for their cough or fever. There could be many more infected people and we just have no clue. Which would then of course reduce the above percentage.

I've been thinking about statistics a lot, lately, and I am really more of a liberal arts person. It seems that there are an awful lot of unknowns and possible confounding factors.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, regentrude said:

How does anybody actually know these numbers? They can only be guesses because nobody knows how many mild cases there are where the person does not suspect they have this virus and does not seek medical attention.  They won't get diagnosed if they just think they have some respiratory bug and don't go to the doctor for their cough or fever. There could be many more infected people and we just have no clue. Which would then of course reduce the above percentage.

True, there are likely many more cases that do not require any sort of medical care. And who knows if we'll ever get real numbers from China or Iran. 

I'm not an infectious disease expert, so I have no idea of the methods they use to estimate how many potential cases we could be looking at.  I'm just going off the numbers for influenza off the CDC website and the current stats on COVID-19 from worldometers.info.  Current info is that 18% of the cases that have been officially diagnosed are considered serious/critical. Even if there are thousands more cases that are very minor and never receive a formal diagnosis, 18% of the ones that do get a diagnosis end up very, very sick. 

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, regentrude said:

How does anybody actually know these numbers? They can only be guesses because nobody knows how many mild cases there are where the person does not suspect they have this virus and does not seek medical attention.  They won't get diagnosed if they just think they have some respiratory bug and don't go to the doctor for their cough or fever. There could be many more infected people and we just have no clue. Which would then of course reduce the above percentage.

According to WHO this is not the case in Hubei due to their door to door temperature check.  Whether or not you accept that as fact is another thing but that’s what they stated.  In Italy on the other hand they are excluding asymptomatic cases so we can assume the death/hospitalisation rate is lower than it seems.  In South Korea where they are testing widely we can also get a more accurate idea.  Plus the cruise ship passengers however they are possibly an older demographic so not 100pc representative either.

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, MissLemon said:

True, there are likely many more cases that do not require any sort of medical care. And who knows if we'll ever get real numbers from China or Iran. 

I'm not an infectious disease expert, so I have no idea of the methods they use to estimate how many potential cases we could be looking at.  I'm just going off the numbers for influenza off the CDC website and the current stats on COVID-19 from worldometers.info.  Current info is that 18% of the cases that have been officially diagnosed are considered serious/critical. Even if there are thousands more cases that are very minor and never receive a formal diagnosis, 18% of the ones that do get a diagnosis end up very, very sick. 


South Korea are doing massive testing. Their data would be useful

Mar 1st report https://is.cdc.go.kr/upload_comm/syview/doc.html?fn=158305007349300.pdf&rs=/upload_comm/docu/0030/

CDC Korea https://www.cdc.go.kr/board/board.es?mid=a30402000000&bid=0030

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, regentrude said:

How does anybody actually know these numbers? They can only be guesses because nobody knows how many mild cases there are where the person does not suspect they have this virus and does not seek medical attention.  They won't get diagnosed if they just think they have some respiratory bug and don't go to the doctor for their cough or fever. There could be many more infected people and we just have no clue. Which would then of course reduce the above percentage.

Most people infected with COVID-19 virus have mild disease and recover. Approximately 80% of laboratory confirmed patients have had mild to moderate disease, which includes non-pneumonia and pneumonia cases, 13.8% have severe disease (dyspnea, respiratory frequency ≥30/minute, blood oxygen saturation ≤93%, PaO2/FiO2 ratio <300, and/or lung infiltrates >50% of the lung field within 24-48 hours) and 6.1% are critical (respiratory failure, septic shock, and/or multiple organ dysfunction/failure). Asymptomatic infection has been reported, but the majority of the relatively rare cases who are asymptomatic on the date of identification/report went on to develop disease. The proportion of truly asymptomatic infections is unclear but appears to be relatively rare and does not appear to be a major driver of transmission.
Individuals at highest risk for severe disease and death include people aged over 60 years and those with underlying conditions such as hypertension, diabetes, cardiovascular disease, chronic respiratory disease and cancer. Disease in children appears to be relatively rare and mild with approximately 2.4% of the total reported cases reported amongst individuals aged under 19 years. A very small proportion of those aged under 19 years have developed severe (2.5%) or critical disease (0.2%).
As of 20 February, 2114 of the 55,924 laboratory confirmed cases have died (crude fatality ratio [CFR2] 3.8%) (note: at least some of whom were identified using a case definition that included pulmonary disease). The overall CFR varies by location and intensity of transmission (i.e. 5.8% in Wuhan vs. 0.7% in other areas in China). In China, the overall CFR was higher in the early stages of the outbreak (17.3% for cases with symptom onset from 1- 10 January) and has reduced over time to 0.7% for patients with symptom onset after 1 February (Figure 4). The Joint Mission noted that the standard of care has evolved over the course of the outbreak.
Mortality increases with age, with the highest mortality among people over 80 years of age (CFR 21.9%). The CFR is higher among males compared to females (4.7% vs. 2.8%). By occupation, patients who reported being retirees had the highest CFR at 8.9%. While patients who reported no comorbid conditions had a CFR of 1.4%, patients with comorbid conditions had much higher rates: 13.2% for those with cardiovascular disease, 9.2% for diabetes, 8.4% for hypertension, 8.0% for chronic respiratory disease, and 7.6% for cancer.
 

this is from the joint China-WHO report.  

  • Like 3
  • Sad 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...