wuhan - coronavirus

[bookbard]

2 minutes ago, regentrude said:

Conversely, non-homeschooled kids are a major infection source for their parents. All my colleagues who caught Covid got it from their school-age children who picked it up at school. 

Yes, absolutely. Pretty much every family who had a kid in our small local school got covid at the end of term one.

[Ausmumof3]

42 minutes ago, regentrude said:

Conversely, non-homeschooled kids are a major infection source for their parents. All my colleagues who caught Covid got it from their school-age children who picked it up at school. 

Yep that’s true! And in multiaged families it was mostly the primary kids who gave it to older siblings 

[Ausmumof3]

So second day after Moderna and chills, muscle aches, fever and swollen lymph nodes under the arm pretty much wrote me off for doing anything physical. I also have a kind of weird red line on my arm which I’m assuming is vax related somehow. I did dodge the headache this time I think.

[Harriet Vane]

24 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

So second day after Moderna and chills, muscle aches, fever and swollen lymph nodes under the arm pretty much wrote me off for doing anything physical. I also have a kind of weird red line on my arm which I’m assuming is vax related somehow. I did dodge the headache this time I think.

That weird red line could seriously be infection. You should get that seen asap.

[Kassia]

7 minutes ago, Harriet Vane said:

That weird red line could seriously be infection. You should get that seen asap.

Seconding that.  Definitely have that checked because that could be serious.

[KSera]

16 hours ago, bookbard said:

The polio thing is terrifying, esp when you realise that 99% of people were fine. I can totally imagine people being like, 'hey, it's only 1% who get paralysed!"

I totally agree with this. I think there are a lot of parallels actually, and the fact that we didn’t know that post-polio syndrome would be a thing until decades later is another one of those things that makes me extra cautious with Covid. That’s why I can never understand why some people feel less concerned about the risk of their kid contracting a novel illness that we have no idea the long-term effects of than having a new, well tested vaccine, when there have never been any long-term effects from any vaccine but there are from many illnesses. 

[KSera]

dp 

Edited July 22, 2022 by KSera

[ktgrok]

Ok, regarding Nitric Oxide spray - I SWEAR when I googled 2 days ago one of the first links was a canadian company that sells it. You could get a 2 pack for $125. Dh has decided he wants to get it, as he has two conferences coming up, including plane travel, and would like to use it as a prevenative. Went to google again, and cannot find it!!!

Am I losing my mind? I want to say it started with an E?

Never mind, I was able to search my browser history and find it! https://buyenov.com/?gclid=Cj0KCQjwz96WBhC8ARIsAATR251tTEur9zgWELadqaiEjJP7YI4Rc36vMh45YjgxOnezUemJ5KdbiIQaAqLWEALw_wcB

Edit - after ordering the confirmation email subject header I got was partly in hebrew! Interesting!

Edited July 22, 2022 by ktgrok

[wathe]

9 hours ago, regentrude said:

Conversely, non-homeschooled kids are a major infection source for their parents. All my colleagues who caught Covid got it from their school-age children who picked it up at school. 

This is also how hospital staff are getting it/got it.  Their kids brought it home from school.

[prairiewindmomma]

The viral counts in sewage here peaked at the January omicron levels a couple of weeks ago. They haven’t posted numbers for the last two weeks. Official testing numbers are low, but lots of people I know have had/have it and hospitals are filling again.

[Ausmumof3]

9 hours ago, Harriet Vane said:

That weird red line could seriously be infection. You should get that seen asap.

Thanks. It has gone a kind of darker colour now and hasn’t grown or spread. I don’t think it’s infection, just doesn’t look like it. But yes, I’m keeping an eye on it.

[Ausmumof3]

Looks like 2.75 is taking off a bit in India although it’s still uncertain whether it has a growth advantage over 5 at this point as the places it’s growing don’t have much BA5. I’m thinking here we had six months between major peaks with a minor one at around three months. Trying to figure out what sustainable prevention strategies look like for us going forward.

[Arcadia]

On 7/21/2022 at 1:45 AM, Ausmumof3 said:

Fourth shot done. Moderna. I didn’t get the tingling feeling in my arm like with Pfizer and don’t actually feel too bad so far. Fingers crossed for tomorrow.

My brother is encouraging me to have Moderna for booster so I do have a vested interest in your experience. My dad tested positive on Wednesday and said it was very mild, like a mild common cold. He had his second booster in late April. He probably won’t have tested for such mild symptoms if he wasn’t invited to my cousin’s home for dinner. My brother is dropping off free rapid test kits for my dad since he can get unlimited free ones under my country of origin low income scheme. My dad has to pay for test kits since his civil servant (government) pension disqualify him for free test kits 🤦‍♀️ My dad went to the bank prior to testing and hopefully didn’t spread to anyone there.

[Ausmumof3]

1 hour ago, Arcadia said:

My brother is encouraging me to have Moderna for booster so I do have a vested interest in your experience. My dad tested positive on Wednesday and said it was very mild, like a mild common cold. He had his second booster in late April. He probably won’t have tested for such mild symptoms if he wasn’t invited to my cousin’s home for dinner. My brother is dropping off free rapid test kits for my dad since he can get unlimited free ones under my country of origin low income scheme. My dad has to pay for test kits since his civil servant (government) pension disqualify him for free test kits 🤦‍♀️ My dad went to the bank prior to testing and hopefully didn’t spread to anyone there.

I feel pretty much normal today except a sore arm - yesterday wasn’t great as posted above. I didn’t get any headaches only muscle aches, chills and exhaustion so it was definitely better than Pfizer but still not great. Novovax is only available here if you can’t have the other two at the moment. 
 

I’m really glad your Dad has such mild symptoms at the moment. 

[bookbard]

34 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Novovax is only available here if you can’t have the other two at the moment. 

Someone on twitter had a look at the Novovax regulations in Aus and apparently it does say "patient choice". Half the reason they got it was because all the anti-vaxxers were saying that they're waiting for novovax (funnily enough there wasn't a massive uptake when it showed, though!)

[Malory]

Bacterial and fungal isolation from face masks under the COVID-19 pandemic: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-022-15409-x

 

Abstract

The COVID-19 pandemic has led people to wear face masks daily in public. Although the effectiveness of face masks against viral transmission has been extensively studied, there have been few reports on potential hygiene issues due to bacteria and fungi attached to the face masks. We aimed to (1) quantify and identify the bacteria and fungi attaching to the masks, and (2) investigate whether the mask-attached microbes could be associated with the types and usage of the masks and individual lifestyles. We surveyed 109 volunteers on their mask usage and lifestyles, and cultured bacteria and fungi from either the face-side or outer-side of their masks. The bacterial colony numbers were greater on the face-side than the outer-side; the fungal colony numbers were fewer on the face-side than the outer-side. A longer mask usage significantly increased the fungal colony numbers but not the bacterial colony numbers. Although most identified microbes were non-pathogenic in humans; Staphylococcus epidermidis, Staphylococcus aureus, and Cladosporium, we found several pathogenic microbes; Bacillus cereus, Staphylococcus saprophyticus, Aspergillus, and Microsporum. We also found no associations of mask-attached microbes with the transportation methods or gargling. We propose that immunocompromised people should avoid repeated use of masks to prevent microbial infection.

[Ausmumof3]

26 minutes ago, Malory said:

Bacterial and fungal isolation from face masks under the COVID-19 pandemic: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-022-15409-x

 

Abstract

The COVID-19 pandemic has led people to wear face masks daily in public. Although the effectiveness of face masks against viral transmission has been extensively studied, there have been few reports on potential hygiene issues due to bacteria and fungi attached to the face masks. We aimed to (1) quantify and identify the bacteria and fungi attaching to the masks, and (2) investigate whether the mask-attached microbes could be associated with the types and usage of the masks and individual lifestyles. We surveyed 109 volunteers on their mask usage and lifestyles, and cultured bacteria and fungi from either the face-side or outer-side of their masks. The bacterial colony numbers were greater on the face-side than the outer-side; the fungal colony numbers were fewer on the face-side than the outer-side. A longer mask usage significantly increased the fungal colony numbers but not the bacterial colony numbers. Although most identified microbes were non-pathogenic in humans; Staphylococcus epidermidis, Staphylococcus aureus, and Cladosporium, we found several pathogenic microbes; Bacillus cereus, Staphylococcus saprophyticus, Aspergillus, and Microsporum. We also found no associations of mask-attached microbes with the transportation methods or gargling. We propose that immunocompromised people should avoid repeated use of masks to prevent microbial infection.

It would be helpful if they had done a separate group with repeated wearing of masks but with a rest period and weekly cycling as that’s what most people who are careful tend to recommend rather than just wearing masks two days in succession. Presumably anything on the face side initially came from the wearer in any case although the mask could provide better conditions for growth obviously (similarly to how wearing damp clothes etc can increase bacterial/fungal overgrowth issues). It would also be interesting to know if humidity levels made a difference.

[KSera]

22 minutes ago, Malory said:

Bacterial and fungal isolation from face masks under the COVID-19 pandemic: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-022-15409-x

 

Abstract

The COVID-19 pandemic has led people to wear face masks daily in public. Although the effectiveness of face masks against viral transmission has been extensively studied, there have been few reports on potential hygiene issues due to bacteria and fungi attached to the face masks. We aimed to (1) quantify and identify the bacteria and fungi attaching to the masks, and (2) investigate whether the mask-attached microbes could be associated with the types and usage of the masks and individual lifestyles. We surveyed 109 volunteers on their mask usage and lifestyles, and cultured bacteria and fungi from either the face-side or outer-side of their masks. The bacterial colony numbers were greater on the face-side than the outer-side; the fungal colony numbers were fewer on the face-side than the outer-side. A longer mask usage significantly increased the fungal colony numbers but not the bacterial colony numbers. Although most identified microbes were non-pathogenic in humans; Staphylococcus epidermidis, Staphylococcus aureus, and Cladosporium, we found several pathogenic microbes; Bacillus cereus, Staphylococcus saprophyticus, Aspergillus, and Microsporum. We also found no associations of mask-attached microbes with the transportation methods or gargling. We propose that immunocompromised people should avoid repeated use of masks to prevent microbial infection.

 Very interesting microbiology study. They thought of lots of different things to examine, but I found myself wishing they had done a comparison to the number of bacteria colonies on the face itself, as anyone who has taken microbiology knows that you’re likely to get all kinds of colonies from whatever surface you culture. I liked the inclusion of natto consumption as one variable; I wouldn’t have thought of that. I think it was someone on the hive who recommended a particular face spray with a very tiny amount of chlorine for use after wearing a mask for those prone to acne. One of my kids uses it and likes it very much and finds it really good on their skin. 

[ktgrok]

6 hours ago, Malory said:

Bacterial and fungal isolation from face masks under the COVID-19 pandemic: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-022-15409-x

 

Abstract

The COVID-19 pandemic has led people to wear face masks daily in public. Although the effectiveness of face masks against viral transmission has been extensively studied, there have been few reports on potential hygiene issues due to bacteria and fungi attached to the face masks. We aimed to (1) quantify and identify the bacteria and fungi attaching to the masks, and (2) investigate whether the mask-attached microbes could be associated with the types and usage of the masks and individual lifestyles. We surveyed 109 volunteers on their mask usage and lifestyles, and cultured bacteria and fungi from either the face-side or outer-side of their masks. The bacterial colony numbers were greater on the face-side than the outer-side; the fungal colony numbers were fewer on the face-side than the outer-side. A longer mask usage significantly increased the fungal colony numbers but not the bacterial colony numbers. Although most identified microbes were non-pathogenic in humans; Staphylococcus epidermidis, Staphylococcus aureus, and Cladosporium, we found several pathogenic microbes; Bacillus cereus, Staphylococcus saprophyticus, Aspergillus, and Microsporum. We also found no associations of mask-attached microbes with the transportation methods or gargling. We propose that immunocompromised people should avoid repeated use of masks to prevent microbial infection.

Ok, so about the fungi on the outside - wouldn't NOT wearing a mask mean they would have been inhaling those spores from the air, instead of them ending up on the outside of the mask?

And the ones on the inside came FROM the nose/mouth/skin of the person wearing the mask, so they already had those germs in their body. I could see how maybe that could be an issue for skin irritation like not ever changing your pillow case but beyond that? 

[kbutton]

7 hours ago, KSera said:

I think it was someone on the hive who recommended a particular face spray with a very tiny amount of chlorine for use after wearing a mask for those prone to acne. One of my kids uses it and likes it very much and finds it really good on their skin. 

One of my kids might be interested in the name of that spray. It might not totally fix his mild mask acne as it seems like he gets acne from all kinds of friction (such as excess scrubbing on his back), but it might help. 

[KSera]

1 hour ago, ktgrok said:

Ok, so about the fungi on the outside - wouldn't NOT wearing a mask mean they would have been inhaling those spores from the air, instead of them ending up on the outside of the mask?

And the ones on the inside came FROM the nose/mouth/skin of the person wearing the mask, so they already had those germs in their body. I could see how maybe that could be an issue for skin irritation like not ever changing your pillow case but beyond that? 

I was thinking the same.  And one of the organisms found on the outside of a mask was one carried in feces, and I was thinking that it showed how mask wearing helps reduce fecal oral route illnesses as well;  that organism could’ve made it to the mouth if the mask hadn't been there to stop it.  Besides trapping inhaled pathogens, I’ve appreciated that when my small child is wearing a mask in public, he can’t put a contaminated finger into his nose or mouth. 

Just now, kbutton said:

One of my kids might be interested in the name of that spray. It might not totally fix his mild mask acne as it seems like he gets acne from all kinds of friction (such as excess scrubbing on his back), but it might help. 

The brand sells the same spray labeled several different ways. It’s made by SkinSmart. So if he might be embarrassed by the one for acne, you can buy the one for eczema or the one for tattoos and piercings, and it’s all the same thing 😉. 

[Malory]

2 hours ago, ktgrok said:

Ok, so about the fungi on the outside - wouldn't NOT wearing a mask mean they would have been inhaling those spores from the air, instead of them ending up on the outside of the mask?

Then I would conclude that the amount inhaled is generally harmless to the body based on how far humans have survived without wearing masks. As to the point brought up by another poster that the mask prevents a child from sticking his finger into his mouth, I'd use the same argument. Young kids putting all kinds of yucky stuff into their mouths is nothing new. This is why we frequently train them to wash their hands, right?

[KSera]

11 minutes ago, Malory said:

Then I would conclude that the amount inhaled is generally harmless to the body based on how far humans have survived without wearing masks. As to the point brought up by another poster that the mask prevents a child from sticking his finger into his mouth, I'd use the same argument. Young kids putting all kinds of yucky stuff into their mouths is nothing new. This is why we frequently train them to wash their hands, right?

Uh, yeah, but kids get stomach bugs and other things all the time from that kind of behavior and I’m all for skipping some of those. If we weren’t in a pandemic with a novel illness, then we wouldn’t usually wear masks, but we are, and a silver lining has been we haven’t had a stomach bug this whole time despite a little one. I do expect we will use masks during flu season in certain circumstances in the future going forward though. We used to do a lot of other things to avoid flu, and I’m glad to now have this in our arsenal, as it’s easier to implement and more effective than all the other things we used to do. 
 

eta: maybe it would be helpful to know what your thought about the study was when you posted it. Were you sharing it just because it was interesting or because you had a concern? I think maybe it came across like you were concerned that the masks testing positive for some organisms was problematic to people, thus the responses sharing the upsides. 

Edited July 23, 2022 by KSera

[Jean in Newcastle]

3 minutes ago, KSera said:

Uh, yeah, but kids get stomach bugs and other things all the time from that kind of behavior and I’m all for skipping some of those. If we weren’t in a pandemic with a novel illness, then we wouldn’t usually wear masks, but we are, and a silver lining has been we haven’t had a stomach bug this whole time despite a little one. I do expect we will use masks during flu season in certain circumstances in the future going forward though. We used to do a lot of other things to avoid flu, and I’m glad to now have this in our arsenal, as it’s easier to implement and more effective than all the other things we used to do. 
 

eta: maybe it would be helpful to know what your thought about the study was when you posted it. Were you sharing it just because it was interesting or because you had a concern? I think maybe it came across like you were concerned that the masks testing positive for some organisms was problematic to people, thus the responses sharing the upsides. 

I get the impression that she’s an anti-masker who is making little jabs at anyone wanting to protect themselves from an airborne virus during a still ongoing global pandemic. 

[Malory]

12 minutes ago, KSera said:

eta: maybe it would be helpful to know what your thought about the study was when you posted it. Were you sharing it just because it was interesting or because you had a concern? I think maybe it came across like you were concerned that the masks testing positive for some organisms was problematic to people, thus the responses sharing the upsides. 

Yes, I just thought it's a legitimate study that is worth sharing. It is problematic that masks could be breeding grounds for bacteria and other pathogens. But I see your point that one has to weigh the pros and cons.

[ktgrok]

2 hours ago, Malory said:

Then I would conclude that the amount inhaled is generally harmless to the body based on how far humans have survived without wearing masks.

Right, and therefore it isn't a big deal that it is on the outside of the mask, either. 

[bookbard]

Over a thousand child hepatitis cases; Mystery child hepatitis outbreak passes 1,000 recorded cases, says WHO | | UN News

Increase in child covid deaths in Australia - four in the last month. 

 

 

[Ausmumof3]

13 hours ago, Malory said:

Then I would conclude that the amount inhaled is generally harmless to the body based on how far humans have survived without wearing masks. As to the point brought up by another poster that the mask prevents a child from sticking his finger into his mouth, I'd use the same argument. Young kids putting all kinds of yucky stuff into their mouths is nothing new. This is why we frequently train them to wash their hands, right?

I think the issue I have with these kinds of arguments is yes, humans as a species have survived a lot of things but I’m concerned with the survival of my specific humans iykwim not just humanity in general. It was very common in centuries gone by before better hygiene for many or most families to have lost a child or several. I’m very appreciative of all the public health measures that have led to better survival rates for the under fives and I’m happy to do my bit to support new measures as needed.

secondly, situations have changed with shared air and disease spread thanks to the advent of air travel and air conditioning. Historically disease spread was much slower due to more limited global travel and stricter quarantine processes for ships etc and old buildings were much draughtier meaning more ventilation. Now many of us effectively live in sealed boxes with recirculating heated or cooled air and interact with people from every corner of the earth. Changed conditions require changed responses.

Once upon a time it was relatively safe to drink from a river or creek. People used to throw rubbish out of windows. Increased population density led to disease and we changed these practices. Eventually hopefully we’ll adapt our buildings to be safer but for now a mask seems like the best option we have.

The study is helpful for those who are immune compromised though - it highlights that they need to be more vigilant about mask changes rather than recycling as much as some people may be able to.

[Ausmumof3]

As an alternative, I’m wondering if those who are immune compromised may benefit from wearing n95 with cloth over the top. The cloth can trap fungus as needed and be sterilised via laundry while the n95 can still do the needed virus protection.

I must admit I don’t know if I could handle double masking, but this could be a way to economise on masks if needed while still having good protection.

[Arcadia]

57 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

As an alternative, I’m wondering if those who are immune compromised may benefit from wearing n95 with cloth over the top. The cloth can trap fungus as needed and be sterilised via laundry while the n95 can still do the needed virus protection.

I must admit I don’t know if I could handle double masking, but this could be a way to economise on masks if needed while still having good protection.

The n95 mask would already be air tight so the cloth mask would be more of a protective cover for the n95.  A neck gaiter or a balaclava over an n95 might work as well for your winter. 

[bookbard]

1 hour ago, Ausmumof3 said:

The study is helpful for those who are immune compromised though - it highlights that they need to be more vigilant about mask changes rather than recycling as much as some people may be able to.

I just got a flo mask - your skin doesn't touch the reusable filter, and the rest of it is silicone and so you can wash it over after each use. I also saw another reusable mask advertised which comes with its on UV case to sterilise after each use. 

I keep thinking that this may be a long-term thing, masking. Covid, monkeypox, pollution, bushfire smoke. So I'm hoping the smart people out there are creating super awesome masks. I quite like the flo mask, but it's not 100% fantastic (for one thing it really highlights my double chin . . . and more seriously puts my glasses on a slightly annoying angle). 

[Ausmumof3]

10 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

The n95 mask would already be air tight so the cloth mask would be more of a protective cover for the n95.  A neck gaiter or a balaclava over an n95 might work as well for your winter. 

Yep exactly! 

[Jean in Newcastle]

How many people are actually getting sick from their mask?  Any?  Or is this all a theoretical study about what could happen but what hasn't actually happened? The actual study says that they wondered if it was possible, not that they are responding to an actual real world problem.  And the solution they suggest is not, not wearing masks.  Or even double masking.   They just say that immunocompromised people should wear fresh masks.  Which amazingly, we already are doing.  Anyone who is immunocompromised is very aware of possible sources of bacteria or fungus.  We wipe things down that others don't wipe down.  We wash things differently.  We are aware of what can't be sterilized and will dispose of them. 

[Mom_to3]

33 minutes ago, bookbard said:

I just got a flo mask - your skin doesn't touch the reusable filter, and the rest of it is silicone and so you can wash it over after each use. I also saw another reusable mask advertised which comes with its on UV case to sterilise after each use. 

I keep thinking that this may be a long-term thing, masking. Covid, monkeypox, pollution, bushfire smoke. So I'm hoping the smart people out there are creating super awesome masks. I quite like the flo mask, but it's not 100% fantastic (for one thing it really highlights my double chin . . . and more seriously puts my glasses on a slightly annoying angle). 

You bet I am going to keep wearing masks when flu season is peaking, or when travelling by plane or going to the ER or ... . We need stores with fun and elegant N95 and elastomeric masks that also provide fit testing for free when you buy a set of sample masks (before committing to a larger purchase). It's like buying glasses - a beautiful mask could be an asset for your face. I think I've said it before, with quite a few people i got to know only in masks, I was shocked when I saw their full faces.

[Ausmumof3]

4 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

How many people are actually getting sick from their mask?  Any?  Or is this all a theoretical study about what could happen but what hasn't actually happened? The actual study says that they wondered if it was possible, not that they are responding to an actual real world problem.  And the solution they suggest is not, not wearing masks.  Or even double masking.   They just say that immunocompromised people should wear fresh masks.  Which amazingly, we already are doing.  Anyone who is immunocompromised is very aware of possible sources of bacteria or fungus.  We wipe things down that others don't wipe down.  We wash things differently.  We are aware of what can't be sterilized and will dispose of them. 

I do have one friend who said she had frequent sore throats while wearing them and she believes it was due to breathing her own bacteria. I’m not sure if that’s true or not, but she was concerned. That was in the days of cloth masks though she doesn’t mask now.

I sometimes get a scratchy throat after wearing one for work but I don’t think that’s bacterial, it’s because I’m talking and interacting one on one for several hours and I need to talk with a bit more volume to be clear when masking. I used to get the same thing when I tried doing Sonlight with my kids due to the amount of read alouds.

[Jean in Newcastle]

12 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I do have one friend who said she had frequent sore throats while wearing them and she believes it was due to breathing her own bacteria. I’m not sure if that’s true or not, but she was concerned. That was in the days of cloth masks though she doesn’t mask now.

I sometimes get a scratchy throat after wearing one for work but I don’t think that’s bacterial, it’s because I’m talking and interacting one on one for several hours and I need to talk with a bit more volume to be clear when masking. I used to get the same thing when I tried doing Sonlight with my kids due to the amount of read alouds.

 I know that people can get sick (including with sore throats) from using a CPAP that isn't properly cleaned often.  So obviously cleanliness and even sterility of anything covering your airways is important.  But non-immunocompromised people are unlikely to get sick from what is mostly their own germs to begin with.  Their body has what it takes to ward off such constant small attacks.  And those of us who are immunocompromised have been thinking of how to protect ourselves in a germy environment long before Covid.  So the PSA that you need to be aware of how clean and fresh your mask is, is a good one.  Suggesting that masks are a novel danger is not. 

[Ausmumof3]

Nice video on how N95s work for anyone with learners in their life that rather watch than read stuff.

[KSera]

3 hours ago, bookbard said:

I just got a flo mask - your skin doesn't touch the reusable filter, and the rest of it is silicone and so you can wash it over after each use. I also saw another reusable mask advertised which comes with its on UV case to sterilise after each use. 

I keep thinking that this may be a long-term thing, masking. Covid, monkeypox, pollution, bushfire smoke. So I'm hoping the smart people out there are creating super awesome masks. I quite like the flo mask, but it's not 100% fantastic (for one thing it really highlights my double chin . . . and more seriously puts my glasses on a slightly annoying angle). 

I think a lot of immune compromised people who are serious about not getting Covid are using elastomeric respirators. Like the flo mask, those are easy to clean and have replaceable filters. Would be nice to have more options that are smaller like the flo mask (that one always seems from pictures like the seal might break when you talk—do you have that problem?)

[bookbard]

37 minutes ago, KSera said:

I think a lot of immune compromised people who are serious about not getting Covid are using elastomeric respirators. Like the flo mask, those are easy to clean and have replaceable filters. Would be nice to have more options that are smaller like the flo mask (that one always seems from pictures like the seal might break when you talk—do you have that problem?)

No, not at all, the seal was fine. It fits well, it just sticks out a bit and you can see it. I think it might be cooler in summer because there's a bit of space in front. I do feel self conscious in it but I will get over it I guess. Basically no one wearing masks at all so no matter what you wear people look at you. 

[ieta_cassiopeia]

21 hours ago, Malory said:

Yes, I just thought it's a legitimate study that is worth sharing. It is problematic that masks could be breeding grounds for bacteria and other pathogens. But I see your point that one has to weigh the pros and cons.

This is not particularly surprising - it's why my hospital's had a 4-hour rule on masks worn by staff in clinical areas all pandemic. Of course, most people spend most of their time in places with considerably lower concentrations of pathogens than the average hospital clinical area, but the advice to wash rewashable masks between uses and to not wear disposable ones twice is for the same reason (plus the matter of pathogens breathed onto the inside of the mask...)

People do get sick from bad mask use, but it tends to be a milder version of going round unmasked, except for the very rare people who misuse a mask long enough for it to outright develop its own microbiome with novel threats (which I suspect would take several days of completely neglectful use at minimum).

[Malory]

Some people have eye issues, including styes from mask wearing.

Has anyone seen this recent mask study being reported by any new source? I think it could help to warn people to always wear clean masks. People participating here are not at all like the typical men on the street in their knowledge of everything covid and its mitigation. I have seen and personally known individuals who would wear the same cloth masks everyday at a week long conference without washing them once. Or the friend who would visit, remove her mask to speak/eat/whatever, wear it again, remove it again when feeling restricted, etc. In those cases, I'd rather they not wear one at all. My own husband and kids would also just wear their reusable masks if I don't throw them in the washer myself. And still some people feel bad throwing away their surgical masks after a short use, so they keep wearing the same one longer than they should. So I do hope this study would serve as a good PSA for people who are more casual with their mask wearing.

 

[Arcadia]

10 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I do have one friend who said she had frequent sore throats while wearing them and she believes it was due to breathing her own bacteria. I’m not sure if that’s true or not, but she was concerned. That was in the days of cloth masks though she doesn’t mask now.

I sometimes get a scratchy throat after wearing one for work but I don’t think that’s bacterial, it’s because I’m talking and interacting one on one for several hours and I need to talk with a bit more volume to be clear when masking. I used to get the same thing when I tried doing Sonlight with my kids due to the amount of read alouds.

DS17 would cough and get sore throats depending on the humidity level in our house and our car. For our car, he just suck on a candy. For home, we turn on the humidifier. He was okay with tennis lessons while wearing an under armor mask but the kids get to drink sips of water whenever they want to. I do get sore throat often in a mask while shopping even though I don’t need to talk. I just pop a candy in my mouth before masking and getting out of my car to lessen the sore throat, either that I drink a cup of coffee from my flask.

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/humidity-masks-may-lessen-severity-covid-19 (February 2021) 

“Drs. Joseph Courtney and Adriaan Bax of NIH’s National Institute of Diabetes and Digestive and Kidney Diseases (NIDDK) carried out a study to compare how different face masks affected the humidity of inhaled air. Results were published on February 12, 2021, in the Biophysical Journal.

… All four masks increased the humidity of inhaled air substantially, but to different degrees. At all temperatures, the thick cotton mask led to a very large increase in humidity. At room temperature, the surgical mask resulted in the lowest but still sizable humidity increase, while both the N95 mask and the cotton-polyester mask increased humidity to an equal extent. The humidifying effects of all masks greatly increased at lower temperatures.

High levels of humidity may help limit the spread of a virus to the lungs. Humidity supports a defense mechanism that removes mucus from the lungs—along with potentially harmful particles, such as viruses, within the mucus. Low levels of humidity can also hamper the immune system’s ability to fight against viruses. This may help explain why people are more likely to get respiratory infections in cold weather.

“We found that face masks strongly increase the humidity in inhaled air and propose that the resulting hydration of the respiratory tract could be responsible for the documented finding that links lower COVID-19 disease severity to wearing a mask,” says Bax. “High levels of humidity have been shown to mitigate severity of the flu, and it may be applicable to severity of COVID-19 through a similar mechanism.”

Earlier studies from Bax and other colleagues showed that any cloth mask can help block the thousands of saliva droplets that are released when speaking. This study suggests another way that masks may help in the battle against COVID-19.”

[ktgrok]

3 hours ago, Malory said:

I have seen and personally known individuals who would wear the same cloth masks everyday at a week long conference without washing them once. Or the friend who would visit, remove her mask to speak/eat/whatever, wear it again, remove it again when feeling restricted, etc. In those cases, I'd rather they not wear one at all. 

 

Please explain the bolded?

I can't figure out how someone using even a well used mask that sat overnight, or one that was touched often, is going to spread more covid than someone not wearing a mask, constantly breathing out viral particles??

 

[wathe]

 

This paper being discussed shows that masks have germs on them.  That's not at all the same thing as showing that masks make people sick, or more specifically, that re-using masks make people sick.  That would require a very different study design.

I'm not too fussed about some bacteria, viruses or fungi on a mask that I'm re-using:

Presumably any bugs on the inside surface of the mask came from my own nose and mouth. I don't think that I 'm very likely to get a clinically meaningful infection from germs that are already mine to start with.  My nose and mouth are germier than my mask, guaranteed.  So long as I'm not wearing someone else's used mask, I think I'm good.

Also, the bugs are entrapped in the mask.  I don't think that I'm breathing them in in any meaningful quanitities.

Bugs on the outside of the mask just tell me that the mask is doing its job. Go mask!

I breath through my scarf or neck gaiter all winter, and have done since childhood.  As do many, many others who live in northern climates.  I certainly don't wash them  with every use,  I wash them seasonally.  Getting sick from this isn't a thing (that I am aware of, at least).

Masks aren't sterile to start with, even when new.  Even a brand new mask has germs on it.  

Anecdata 1: HCW have been wearing masks for extended time-periods for years now. I wear the same sweaty n95 for up to 12 hours in a row.  If this were really a concern, we should have seen and uptick in bacterial and fungal pneumonias among HCW.  We haven't.

Anecdata 2: Recent travel experience on a youth trip, living in a crowded, congregate-living guest house with bad ventilation, in a very remote location,  for 10 days, where one of the party came down with covid on one of the first days there.  I wore the same 2 n95's for 10 days. I didn't get covid, and I didn't get sick with anything else either.  Neither did any of the other participants who all did the same thing.  (To be fair, as soon as the positive person was identified, we mitigated +++ by opening windows in -10C weather and titrating natural ventilation to CO2<800ppm.  But C02 exceeded 3000ppm the evening before the positive person's covid was identified.  Masks work)

 

 

[KSera]

Article on hospital acquired Covid in UK. As of early July, 24% of hospitalized Covid patients there had caught Covid while in the hospital. this is particularly relevant when you read further that 

"The 30-day mortality rate for patients with a periop diagnosis of SARS-CoV-2 infection undergoing surgery for proximal femoral fracture is substantial. A rate of 29.4% compares with the reported 30-day mortality for proximal femoral fractures ranging between 3.5% & 6.8%."

So, even if you’re in for leg or hip surgery, your chances of subsequently dying go up about six-fold if you contract Covid while you are in there. My understanding is that masks are not required in hospital there? I know that they have many more patients in one room than is typical in the US where private or at least semi-private rooms are pretty standard.

(I’m linking to a Twitter thread covering the article, because the link to the paper itself only lets you read the first part):

 

 

[Malory]

3 hours ago, ktgrok said:

Please explain the bolded?

I can't figure out how someone using even a well used mask that sat overnight, or one that was touched often, is going to spread more covid than someone not wearing a mask, constantly breathing out viral particles??

When a friend comes to eat at my house, she and I understand that we are both healthy and not at great risk of passing covid virus to each other. I don't see the benefit of taking it on and off. Maybe I am projecting my own discomfort. I admit I can't stand wearing the same mask after taking it off. Personally, I am not any more comfortable being around a sick person breathing out viral particles through a days-old cloth/surgical mask than no mask at all. I also tend to assume people aren't infectious unless they are experiencing symptoms (I know asymptomatic transmission can happen).  Others may feel differently.

[KSera]

3 minutes ago, Malory said:

When a friend comes to eat at my house, she and I understand that we are both healthy and not at great risk of passing covid virus to each other.

I wish this were true. Would sure have made gatherings the last couple years easier and a lot safer for everyone if it was but alas, millions of people have been infected by someone they thought was healthy and have infected others while they thought they were healthy. Rapid testing immediately before meeting can help, but even that is far from a sure thing, it just helps reduce the risk by catching some portion of positive people before they get together with others.

If someone is sick, you can bet I want something catching as many of their infectious particles as possible rather than breathing them in myself. My preference is N95>KF94>KN95>well fitted cloth mask over surgical>surgical, but I don't get to choose what kind of mask others wear and am glad to at least know that studies indicate for outward protection, a surgical mask does reduce risk a good deal. I feel much better if people are wearing properly fitted medical masks, though.

[wathe]

I wore the same n95 for a weekend camp not too long ago.  By the time the weekend was done, it had actual dirt and bugspray on the outside, and sweat, sunscreen and a few food crumbs on the inside.  Gross, I agree, but so was the rest of me after a weekend scout  camp.  Still safer than no mask at all.

[kbutton]

1 hour ago, wathe said:

I wore the same n95 for a weekend camp not too long ago.  By the time the weekend was done, it had actual dirt and bugspray on the outside, and sweat, sunscreen and a few food crumbs on the inside.  Gross, I agree, but so was the rest of me after a weekend scout  camp.  Still safer than no mask at all.

My son wore his n95s in his carpentry class all year, and he wears them to work at a garden center, and they work just fine. He's not been sick even though the masks get really gross. I think he changes them once per week. 

[KSera]

1 hour ago, kbutton said:

My son wore his n95s in his carpentry class all year, and he wears them to work at a garden center, and they work just fine. He's not been sick even though the masks get really gross. I think he changes them once per week. 

The mask getting wet is a bigger issue in degrading performance than dirt and dust (many 95s were created for dirty shop environments and are required to maintain filtration after getting far dirtier than most people are going to get them in every day wear). If it really gets wet, I can dagrade the electrostatic properties, and it also increases resistance which makes it less comfortable to breathe in and can increase the chances that the seal will break in order to let air through around the edges.

(eta: I know you already know this, kbutton, I was just adding additional commentary about it, not directed back at you.)

Edited July 25, 2022 by KSera