wuhan - coronavirus

[BeachGal]

Pfizer’s CEO said that he expects the current vaccines to offer some level of protection against Omicron. They expected they would have to redesign them at some point and it looks like that time is here. It’s a pain but at least a vaccine is on the horizon.

He also mentioned that they expect their new drug Paxlovid will work against Omicron. If given early it reduces death and hospitalization by about 90% which is impressive. And it can be taken at home preventing HCWs from being overburdened and exposed. They will probably start using it as a treatment this winter.

Some other anti-virals are about to be tested, too.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/pfizer-ceo-were-working-on-covid-vaccine-against-omicron/

Bourla told CNBC that his company on Friday began testing its current vaccine against the Omicron variant, which was first reported in South Africa and reignited fears of a global wave of COVID-19 infections.

“I don’t think the result will be the vaccines don’t protect,” Bourla said.

But the testing could show that existing shots “protect less,” which means “that we need to create a new vaccine,” Bourla said.

“Friday, we made our first DNA template, which is the first possible inflection of the development process of a new vaccine,” he said.

 

 

[Wheres Toto]

So if they are going to quickly modify the vaccines for Omicron, would it be better to wait a little bit to get teens a third shot until it's been updated?   I would assume they couldn't get a third shot of the existing vaccine, and then right away get another shot of the newer vaccine?

[Ausmumof3]

1 hour ago, Wheres Toto said:

So if they are going to quickly modify the vaccines for Omicron, would it be better to wait a little bit to get teens a third shot until it's been updated?   I would assume they couldn't get a third shot of the existing vaccine, and then right away get another shot of the newer vaccine?

I was wondering this as well as DH is due for boosters.  But the timeframe I heard was 100 days which is almost three months and delta is still a big thing here so I think we will get our boosters on schedule and hope there’s no conflict.

 

ETA I’m also really hoping they can work it for both strains so we don’t have to have both vaccines.  2 days in bed every two months is not something I’m looking forward to if that happens.

Edited December 1, 2021 by Ausmumof3

[Spryte]

57 minutes ago, Wheres Toto said:

So if they are going to quickly modify the vaccines for Omicron, would it be better to wait a little bit to get teens a third shot until it's been updated?   I would assume they couldn't get a third shot of the existing vaccine, and then right away get another shot of the newer vaccine?

I think this is a good point.

FWIW, I did speak to a nurse at the mass vaccination site, and she verified that even with immune compromised kids, we have to wait till he’s 18 to get a shot there. I know it’s different at some pharmacies, apparently. This was a dedicated site, hosted by our health department.

I am going to give it a bit of time, and see what changes in the next two weeks or so, and then decide what to do.

[thewellerman]

2 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I found this thread on what we know about transmissibility, immune escape and virulence with Omicron really informative and clear.  Warning it’s long.  To be precise 41 tweets long.  But worth it if you want an overview of known and unknown stuff.

He says he favors the idea of a zoonotic origin from human to animal to human transmission.  How can we possibly prevent that if we can't vaccinate wild animals?  Where I live, they do a rabies vaccine drop once a year.  I wonder if there will be attempts to vaccinate wildlife in that way and if it would have to be done every 6 months or less to be effective.

[Roadrunner]

The story about the masks not working comes from Hong Kong. Apparently one infected quarantined person with Omicron infected another one across the hallway. Apparently they never met, and they wore masks while leaving their quarantined rooms. So somehow the virus made through air from one room to another during the small timeframe the doors were open.

It’s also possible that these two quarantined individuals are not telling the truth and in fact they were in contact. The motivation for not being truthful is to avoid severe fines they would get if authorities found out they violated quarantine rules. 

[Ausmumof3]

6 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

The story about the masks not working comes from Hong Kong. Apparently one infected quarantined person with Omicron infected another one across the hallway. Apparently they never met, and they wore masks while leaving their quarantined rooms. So somehow the virus made through air from one room to another during the small timeframe the doors were open.

It’s also possible that these two quarantined individuals are not telling the truth and in fact they were in contact. The motivation for not being truthful is to avoid severe fines they would get if authorities found out they violated quarantine rules. 

Typically that’s what has happened here when we’ve had cases of unusual transmission etc.

I wonder how good the air flow/ventilation in the hotels is.

[Roadrunner]

10 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Typically that’s what has happened here when we’ve had cases of unusual transmission etc.

I wonder how good the air flow/ventilation in the hotels is.

The reason their situation is suspicious is because nobody else came down with it, and there have been other quarantined individuals on that floor. 

[Not_a_Number]

9 hours ago, KSera said:

That’s a hope, and it’s what I hope, but it can just as easily go the other way. So until we know, we don’t know. I wasn’t talking about news media hoping for the vaccines to not work against omicron—that would be really bizarre—I’m talking about anti-vaxers all over social media. That’s what I was saying was sick. 

I’m never a fan of this kind of statement coming from the CEO of a vaccine company, rather than one of the scientists. So far, I haven’t seen any scientists saying we have any definitive knowledge on this yet. Most are optimistic the vaccines will still be effective against severe illness and death, particularly for those who have been boostered. Hopefully we will have more definitive information soon. 

Right. We don't know anything yet. To act as if we do is simply foolhardy. 

 

3 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I found this thread on what we know about transmissibility, immune escape and virulence with Omicron really informative and clear.  Warning it’s long.  To be precise 41 tweets long.  But worth it if you want an overview of known and unknown stuff.

Good thread, thank you. 

[Ausmumof3]

57 minutes ago, thewellerman said:

He says he favors the idea of a zoonotic origin from human to animal to human transmission.  How can we possibly prevent that if we can't vaccinate wild animals?  Where I live, they do a rabies vaccine drop once a year.  I wonder if there will be attempts to vaccinate wildlife in that way and if it would have to be done every 6 months or less to be effective.

Probably more likely we would have a warning system about interaction with species where it’s a known event.  It could also be possible to maintain a sentinel captive population to monitor? Although risky of course. Similar to how we do for bats. If it’s domesticated animals that could be tricky.

[Terabith]

6 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Probably more likely we would have a warning system about interaction with species where it’s a known event.  It could also be possible to maintain a sentinel captive population to monitor? Although risky of course. Similar to how we do for bats. If it’s domesticated animals that could be tricky.

I'm very worried about deer hunting season and the likelihood of it jumping species again with that much interaction.  

[kbutton]

1 hour ago, Terabith said:

I'm very worried about deer hunting season and the likelihood of it jumping species again with that much interaction.  

Latest guidelines that I have seen: https://www.deseret.com/coronavirus/2021/11/17/22785304/hunting-deer-wear-a-mask-covid-coronavirus

They recommend wearing a mask while field-dressing the deer. 

 

[KSera]

4 hours ago, Wheres Toto said:

So if they are going to quickly modify the vaccines for Omicron, would it be better to wait a little bit to get teens a third shot until it's been updated?   I would assume they couldn't get a third shot of the existing vaccine, and then right away get another shot of the newer vaccine?

I've been seeing virus scientists on Twitter saying no, don't wait. It's going to take too long to have a new one and we know the risk is here now and the current vaccines are expected to still protect most people from serious illness or death.

3 hours ago, Spryte said:

I think this is a good point.

FWIW, I did speak to a nurse at the mass vaccination site, and she verified that even with immune compromised kids, we have to wait till he’s 18 to get a shot there. I know it’s different at some pharmacies, apparently. This was a dedicated site, hosted by our health department.

I am going to give it a bit of time, and see what changes in the next two weeks or so, and then decide what to do.

He is likely to be able to get one sooner as a 17 year old, assuming the booster for 16-17 year olds is approved shortly, as is expected.

[Arcadia]

5 hours ago, Wheres Toto said:

So if they are going to quickly modify the vaccines for Omicron, would it be better to wait a little bit to get teens a third shot until it's been updated?  

 

4 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I was wondering this as well as DH is due for boosters.  But the timeframe I heard was 100 days which is almost three months and delta is still a big thing here so I think we will get our boosters on schedule and hope there’s no conflict.

 

ETA I’m also really hoping they can work it for both strains so we don’t have to have both vaccines.  2 days in bed every two months is not something I’m looking forward to if that happens.

 

1 hour ago, KSera said:

I've been seeing virus scientists on Twitter saying no, don't wait. It's going to take too long to have a new one and we know the risk is here now and the current vaccines are expected to still protect most people from serious illness or death.

My husband was waiting hoping for an improved version of the original vaccine before vaccination. But I read this article and the ones getting the “improved” version are the people in their test studies.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02854-3

”Pfizer, with its partner BioNTech, based in Mainz, Germany, is testing a Beta-specific RNA vaccine in a randomized, placebo-controlled clinical trial with up to 930 participants. In August, the companies began a trial of a multivalent vaccine that targets both the Delta and Alpha variants.

“We’re not doing that because we actually think we need a new vaccine for those strains,” says Philip Dormitzer, vice-president and chief scientific officer of viral vaccines and mRNA at Pfizer, based in New York City. “We want to practise all aspects of executing a strain change — the preclinical research, the manufacturing, the clinical testing and the regulatory submissions — so that if we do see a variant out there that truly escapes vaccine immunity, we’re ready to go fast.” Dormitzer says Pfizer currently has no plans to deploy its Beta or Delta vaccines among the public.”

[Laura Corin]

6 hours ago, Wheres Toto said:

So if they are going to quickly modify the vaccines for Omicron, would it be better to wait a little bit to get teens a third shot until it's been updated?   I would assume they couldn't get a third shot of the existing vaccine, and then right away get another shot of the newer vaccine?

The UK has reduced the second-jab-to-booster interval to three months.  Apparently there is evidence for efficacy at that gap. I have had my Pfizer booster but can imagine there may be another round of jabs if Omicron turns out nasty, perhaps when this booster phase is over.  They are predicting full boostering of all willing adults with the current vaccine by the end of January.  Scotland is at 30 percent of total population right now.

Edited December 1, 2021 by Laura Corin

[Pawz4me]

10 hours ago, Wheres Toto said:

So if they are going to quickly modify the vaccines for Omicron, would it be better to wait a little bit to get teens a third shot until it's been updated?   I would assume they couldn't get a third shot of the existing vaccine, and then right away get another shot of the newer vaccine?

I haven't been following this as closely as many, so I could be wrong. But I don't see how a new vaccine could be available really quickly. Sure they can probably develop one. But I *think* it will still have to go through clinical trials. I don't see how those could (or should) be skipped. And those take time. If Omicron is widely circulating (as the virus was when the clinical trial for the vaccines we have now were being  conducted) it will speed things up quite a lot. If it's not widely circulating it will take a lot longer.  There's a man on another message board I belong to who has considerable expertise in vaccine development, and his guesstimate is a year for a new vaccine to be available to the public.

[Matryoshka]

2 hours ago, Pawz4me said:

I haven't been following this as closely as many, so I could be wrong. But I don't see how a new vaccine could be available really quickly. Sure they can probably develop one. But I *think* it will still have to go through clinical trials. I don't see how those could (or should) be skipped. And those take time. If Omicron is widely circulating (as the virus was when the clinical trial for the vaccines we have now were being  conducted) it will speed things up quite a lot. If it's not widely circulating it will take a lot longer.  There's a man on another message board I belong to who has considerable expertise in vaccine development, and his guesstimate is a year for a new vaccine to be available to the public.

From what I've been reading, because this is a tweak rather than a whole new vaccine, it will not have to go through the full trials and they (both Pfizer and Moderna) are saying 100 days/ 3 months to get a new version shipping and going in arms once they commit to developing it. Apparently this is more like tweaking the yearly flu vax, which I also don't believe goes through full new-vax trials every year.  All along, they've been saying one of the benefits of the mRNA technology is the ability to rapidly adapt it to new variants. 

[Syllieann]

30 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

From what I've been reading, because this is a tweak rather than a whole new vaccine, it will not have to go through the full trials and they (both Pfizer and Moderna) are saying 100 days/ 3 months to get a new version shipping and going in arms once they commit to developing it. Apparently this is more like tweaking the yearly flu vax, which I also don't believe goes through full new-vax trials every year.  All along, they've been saying one of the benefits of the mRNA technology is the ability to rapidly adapt it to new variants. 

Yes, this is what I read too and also that they would only need 24 trial participants.  It's unclear though, if this is for 5+ or just adults.  My youngers are scheduled for second doses today and I'm not keen on getting a third dose in three months, especially for the boys.

[Pawz4me]

55 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

From what I've been reading, because this is a tweak rather than a whole new vaccine, it will not have to go through the full trials and they (both Pfizer and Moderna) are saying 100 days/ 3 months to get a new version shipping and going in arms once they commit to developing it. Apparently this is more like tweaking the yearly flu vax, which I also don't believe goes through full new-vax trials every year.  All along, they've been saying one of the benefits of the mRNA technology is the ability to rapidly adapt it to new variants. 

That's been my understanding, too. But the person on the other message board is truly extremely well qualified to speak on these things, so . . it makes me wonder.

[BeachGal]

The omicron vaccine will be available to HCWs and public in about 100 days or so. The vaccine developers have been figuring out what they need to do even before omicron was detected. Here is Pfizer/BioNTech’s response:

https://www.advisory.com/daily-briefing/2021/11/30/omicron-vaccines

Pfizer and BioNTech said they "have immediately initiated investigations" on the variant and can quickly adapt their vaccine if necessary. "[This] data will provide more information about whether [omicron] could be an escape variant that may require an adjustment of our vaccine if the variant spreads globally," Pfizer and BioNTech said.

They added, "Pfizer and BioNTech have taken actions months ago to be able to adapt the mRNA vaccine within six weeks and ship initial batches within 100 days in the event of an escape variant."

*****

Several hundred second generation vaccines are being developed as well and some of these might be even better than the current mRNA vaccines. They are in different phases. The goal is to develop a vaccine that will offer as close to 100% protection that is long lasting even against VOCs. The current mRNA vaccines are pretty fantastic considering we had nothing initially but an even better vaccine would be wonderful.

Here is a blurb about one of the newer vaccines, Gritstone’s self-amplifying mRNA vaccine. This type of vaccine appears to be a good contender for future VOCs. A few of these are going into human trials in South Africa this month. Gritstone’s is in trials in the US and UK but I don’t know what phase it’s in.

https://www.pharmaceutical-technology.com/news/omicron-variant-gritstone-vaccines/

Quote

Gritstone bio’s Covid-19 vaccine is claimed to possess the ability to address newly developing viral variants of concern.

Gritstone bio has reported that the mutations seen within the Omicron (B.1.1.529) variant of the SARS-CoV-2 virus does not affect the viruses’ T cell epitopes (TCEs) delivered along with its self-amplifying messenger ribonucleic acid (mRNA) Covid-19 vaccines.

This indicates the ability of the platform to address newly developing viral variants of concern (VOCs).

Edited December 1, 2021 by BeachGal

[mommyoffive]

How 2 Flights to Europe May Have Spurred Spread of New Variant (msn.com)

[lauraw4321]

Are there still no confirmed cases in the US?  I feel like that shows our extremely poor testing infrastructure better than anything else so far.  So damn depressing. You know it's here. 

[prairiewindmomma]

16 minutes ago, lauraw4321 said:

Are there still no confirmed cases in the US?  I feel like that shows our extremely poor testing infrastructure better than anything else so far.  So damn depressing. You know it's here. 

I know for my state there are only five hospitals that are part of the early alert genomic sequencing. In addition, you cannot request for sequencing out of that scope if the case is breakthrough or tied to domestic travel. 🤦 It’s because funding is tied to a CDC study but it’s so narrow as to be unhelpful except for answering what is currently dominating the caseloads in a few key hospitals. You don’t know it’s here until you get hit by the semi.

[prairiewindmomma]

Collectively, the world owes South Africa a heap of thanks and not the travel ban.

[whitestavern]

56 minutes ago, lauraw4321 said:

Are there still no confirmed cases in the US?  I feel like that shows our extremely poor testing infrastructure better than anything else so far.  So damn depressing. You know it's here. 

https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2021/12/01/first-us-case-omicron-variant-detected-in-california/

[regentrude]

43 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Collectively, the world owes South Africa a heap of thanks and not the travel ban.

one does not preclude the other.

Yes, it is awesome they detected the variant.
But also, halting international travel until more is know is the prudent thing to do to buy some time. It's not a punishment; it's simply the only thing to do at this point in time until we figure out what we're dealing with.

[Roadrunner]

It’s here in CA. First detected case of Omicron is in Bay Area. 

[Terabith]

41 minutes ago, regentrude said:

one does not preclude the other.

Yes, it is awesome they detected the variant.
But also, halting international travel until more is know is the prudent thing to do to buy some time. It's not a punishment; it's simply the only thing to do at this point in time until we figure out what we're dealing with.

But wasn't it discovered in the Netherlands before it was found in South Africa?  I could totally get on board with banning all international travel, or requiring all people returning to quarantine in hotels like Australia and New Zealand do.  That could buy time.  And maybe it's justified if it's super widespread in South Africa.  But I have concerns about singling out these African countries and not other countries where omicron has been found to be.  It seems likely at best to disincentivize variant testing and at worst it seems racist.  

And I'm not an expert, and maybe it does make sense, if we know there's loads of community spread in South Africa and all the other worldwide cases are traced to African travel.  I just worry that it's a repeat of the Wuhan ban but leaving the rest of the doors wide open.  

[Spryte]

DD (10) had her second Pfizer yesterday.

Today she has temp 102.3. 😞

Is anyone else seeing kids with fever as a side effect? (Or is she possibly sick?)

[KSera]

13 minutes ago, Terabith said:

And I'm not an expert, and maybe it does make sense, if we know there's loads of community spread in South Africa and all the other worldwide cases are traced to African travel.  I just worry that it's a repeat of the Wuhan ban but leaving the rest of the doors wide open.  

There’s definitely lots of community spread in South Africa, and it appears in some other Southern African countries, and almost all the cases found have had a history of recent travel to South Africa. But, it’s gotten out and is lots of places now. I think that means we need to move to a much more robust testing and quarantining system for international arrivals. We have been way behind on that. Do we even have quarantine facilities near our international airports? It’s not some thing I’ve heard anything about. It seems that everyone needs to be tested very shortly before boarding an international flight and then quarantine for some period of time and be tested after arrival.

[KSera]

1 minute ago, Spryte said:

DD (10) had her second Pfizer yesterday.

Today she has temp 102.3. 😞

Is anyone else seeing kids with fever as a side effect? (Or is she possibly sick?)

None of my kids had fever, but it’s definitely in the side effects. I would expect it was from the shot, unless she had some known exposure lately. If it’s from the shot, it’s very likely that by tomorrow morning she will feel normal, whereas if it’s an illness, you would expect symptoms to continue.

[Spryte]

16 minutes ago, KSera said:

None of my kids had fever, but it’s definitely in the side effects. I would expect it was from the shot, unless she had some known exposure lately. If it’s from the shot, it’s very likely that by tomorrow morning she will feel normal, whereas if it’s an illness, you would expect symptoms to continue.

No known exposure, she hasn’t been anywhere other than the shot clinic — and then a masked outing into the allergy safe bakery afterward for a treat. Yesterday. I think exposure is unlikely, but not impossible.

[thewellerman]

1 minute ago, Spryte said:

No known exposure, she hasn’t been anywhere other than the shot clinic — and then a masked outing into the allergy safe bakery afterward for a treat. Yesterday. I think exposure is unlikely, but not impossible.

I'm not a kid, but I thought it worth mentioning that I had a fever for a week after the first Pfizer.  So, if she still has a fever tmrw, it could still be the vaccine. 

[Spryte]

12 minutes ago, thewellerman said:

I'm not a kid, but I thought it worth mentioning that I had a fever for a week after the first Pfizer.  So, if she still has a fever tmrw, it could still be the vaccine. 

Thanks! That’s reassuring.

[kbutton]

57 minutes ago, Terabith said:

I just worry that it's a repeat of the Wuhan ban but leaving the rest of the doors wide open.  

I think the biggest problem with the original ban is that we weren't ASKING anyone if they traveled except if it was to China LONG after we knew it was in Italy and other countries. Medical offices should've been asking about travel history far more broadly. I get that they weren't instructed to, but I think our contact tracing would've had more of a chance to stay on things if they had.

[Syllieann]

1 hour ago, Terabith said:

But wasn't it discovered in the Netherlands before it was found in South Africa?  I could totally get on board with banning all international travel, or requiring all people returning to quarantine in hotels like Australia and New Zealand do.  That could buy time.  And maybe it's justified if it's super widespread in South Africa.  But I have concerns about singling out these African countries and not other countries where omicron has been found to be.  It seems likely at best to disincentivize variant testing and at worst it seems racist.  

And I'm not an expert, and maybe it does make sense, if we know there's loads of community spread in South Africa and all the other worldwide cases are traced to African travel.  I just worry that it's a repeat of the Wuhan ban but leaving the rest of the doors wide open.  

The Netherlands case had just returned from a flight from South Africa.  Regardless, I'd rather tighten testing and quarantine protocols than ban travel from a handful of countries.

[Pawz4me]

49 minutes ago, Spryte said:

DD (10) had her second Pfizer yesterday.

Today she has temp 102.3. 😞

Is anyone else seeing kids with fever as a side effect? (Or is she possibly sick?)

Not a kid, but a friend in her early 60's got a booster on Sunday and spiked a fever of around 102 on Monday and had some aches. By Tuesday morning she was back to normal.

[Ausmumof3]

2 hours ago, regentrude said:

one does not preclude the other.

Yes, it is awesome they detected the variant.
But also, halting international travel until more is know is the prudent thing to do to buy some time. It's not a punishment; it's simply the only thing to do at this point in time until we figure out what we're dealing with.

I think a more general overall halt might be better than a South Africa one specifically with gradual lifting as places doing sequencing and confirm whether it’s there yet or not.  But otherwise I agree. Australia has had a relatively easy couple of years thanks to the travel ban.  Things could have been really different.  We may not be so lucky this time as the political will is not there anymore to take necessary actions.

[kbutton]

New Covid pill might be able to spawn escape variants? I am not sure how much of a threat this is, but since some people accuse the vaccines of doing this (but are fine with taking a pill to get better), I thought I'd bring it up. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/11/30/merck-covid-pill/?fbclid=IwAR37axMY0_Zr4RCEr9H9pGstvkghpaqoBt8LNpfwDXzyV5gSlPMqwmAtVWM 

Quote

The second concern is that the drug might induce genetic changes to the virus that fuel the rise of new, threatening variants. FDA reviewers showed data demonstrating that in seven people treated with the drug, viral samples taken after treatments contained worrisome mutations, although the patients cleared the virus.

“Even if the probability is very low, 1 in 10,000 or 1 in 100,000, that this drug would induce an escape mutant for which the vaccines we have do not cover, that would be catastrophic for the whole world,” Hildreth said.

But FDA reviewers said those mutations also emerge naturally.

“It is unclear to us if molnupiravir would have a substantial impact on the evolutionary patterns that are already happening,” said Patrick R. Harrington, senior clinical virology reviewer at the FDA.

 

[Corraleno]

10 minutes ago, kbutton said:

New Covid pill might be able to spawn escape variants? I am not sure how much of a threat this is, but since some people accuse the vaccines of doing this (but are fine with taking a pill to get better), I thought I'd bring it up. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/11/30/merck-covid-pill/?fbclid=IwAR37axMY0_Zr4RCEr9H9pGstvkghpaqoBt8LNpfwDXzyV5gSlPMqwmAtVWM 

 

I really hope that Pfizer's pill (Paxlovid) gets approved quickly, since it's significantly more effective and also works in a totally different way that doesn't involve purposely causing genetic errors in viral replication.

[Ausmumof3]

1419 cases in Vic today… does seem to be trending up again sadly. 10 deaths.

here in SA we are seeing the first proper local outbreaks.  People are complaining a lot on social media about stuff being shut down and people being quarantined. The ex-state premier was infected so parliament is currently shut down as he was in contact with the opposition leader. Pretty sure we are going to regret this border reopening soon. Hospitals aren’t prepared even after two years.

[sbgrace]

2 hours ago, Spryte said:

DD (10) had her second Pfizer yesterday.

Today she has temp 102.3. 😞

Is anyone else seeing kids with fever as a side effect? (Or is she possibly sick?)

My son (16) had a 102 fever with his second Pfizer shot. He was fine the next day. I'm sure it was vax related for him. 

[prairiewindmomma]

3 hours ago, regentrude said:

one does not preclude the other.

Yes, it is awesome they detected the variant.
But also, halting international travel until more is know is the prudent thing to do to buy some time. It's not a punishment; it's simply the only thing to do at this point in time until we figure out what we're dealing with.

I question the efficacy of a travel ban targeting only certain nations. If direct flights are prevented, people can just change flight legs and make it to their destinations.  If you prudently wanted to quarantine all arrivals and test upon arrival and after quarantine 5 days, I'm all for it, as I think that would actually be effective. You need to be capturing every arriving case, including your own returning citizens, and making quarantine enforceable.  You also need to be doing widespread surveillance testing in your home communities, working on increasing vaccination rates, and reinstating masking and other protective measures. What's happening with the ban on travelers from South Africa isn't that.  I think travel bans make countries more likely to keep mum on what they discover because of the political implications and that they only heighten xenophobia in a world that is already increasingly xenophobic. 

I think we know what we're dealing with. We're dealing with a variant that is highly transmissible and the horse has already left the barn.  One of the cases in Belgium has no travel connections which suggests community spread.

[prairiewindmomma]

3 hours ago, Spryte said:

DD (10) had her second Pfizer yesterday.

Today she has temp 102.3. 😞

Is anyone else seeing kids with fever as a side effect? (Or is she possibly sick?)

Most of us that have had a second dose ran a fever of 101F+ starting about 12 hours post vax and running for about 12 hours.  Mine continued on into the high 99s for a bit longer.  Don't be super surprised if she also gets the chills at some point. We were about half and half on that among the fever runners.

[Mom_to3]

3 hours ago, Spryte said:

No known exposure, she hasn’t been anywhere other than the shot clinic — and then a masked outing into the allergy safe bakery afterward for a treat. Yesterday. I think exposure is unlikely, but not impossible.

Crap! Mine are scheduled for tomorrow. How is she feeling otherwise? Apparently 7 percent of kids 5-11 have a "fever" afterwards, though 102.3 is pretty high.

Edited to add that according to the FDA submission, 0.5% of kids had a fever of greater than 38.9C (102.2F) after the second shot

Edited December 1, 2021 by Mom_to3

[Roadrunner]

Nigeria reported Omicron in samples from October. They don’t have a very good surveillance system so this variant isn’t new. Bad news is it has probably been all over by now. Good news is maybe it’s not as bad if it hasn’t wrecked havoc so far over there. 

[Ausmumof3]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/01/severe-covid-infection-doubles-chances-of-dying-in-following-year-study
 

Patients who survive severe Covid are more than twice as likely to die over the following year than those who remain uninfected or experience milder virus symptoms, a study says.

The research, published in Frontiers in Medicine, suggests that serious coronavirus infections may significantly damage long-term health, showing the importance of vaccination.

The increased risk of dying was greater for patients under 65, and only 20% of the severe Covid-19 patients who died did so because of typical Covid complications, such as respiratory failure.

[Spryte]

1 hour ago, Mom_to3 said:

Crap! Mine are scheduled for tomorrow. How is she feeling otherwise? Apparently 7 percent of kids 5-11 have a "fever" afterwards, though 102.3 is pretty high.

Edited to add that according to the FDA submission, 0.5% of kids had a fever of greater than 38.9C (102.2F) after the second shot

She was pretty tired, but once the advil kicked in and her temp fell some—she’s acting pretty normal. 
 

I hope it goes easy on your kids!

[Amira]

3 hours ago, prairiewindmomma said:

I question the efficacy of a travel ban targeting only certain nations. If direct flights are prevented, people can just change flight legs and make it to their destinations.  If you prudently wanted to quarantine all arrivals and test upon arrival and after quarantine 5 days, I'm all for it, as I think that would actually be effective. You need to be capturing every arriving case, including your own returning citizens, and making quarantine enforceable.  You also need to be doing widespread surveillance testing in your home communities, working on increasing vaccination rates, and reinstating masking and other protective measures. What's happening with the ban on travelers from South Africa isn't that.  I think travel bans make countries more likely to keep mum on what they discover because of the political implications and that they only heighten xenophobia in a world that is already increasingly xenophobic. 

I think we know what we're dealing with. We're dealing with a variant that is highly transmissible and the horse has already left the barn.  One of the cases in Belgium has no travel connections which suggests community spread.

This. I am not a fan of entry bans almost every time they come up.  I was against proposed bans on travelers from western African countries during Ebola, actual bans based on citizenship from certain countries starting in 2017, on foreign travelers who were coming from China in early 2020, and this current ban on travelers from southern African countries. In every single one of these instances, there were more effective and less discriminatory ways to achieve the stated goals (whether it was public health or national security) without blanket bans.

I’ve said over and over on these boards since early 2020 that we do not know what is happening with corona in most of the world.  Implementing bans based on limited information or fear is not the way to go, either with corona or with national security.  In this case, pre-flight testing and actually quarantining people would be better options, and I don’t make those suggestions lightly because stricter testing would functionally ban many travelers because they wouldn’t be able to meet the testing requirement.  But at least it would target people who were actually sick rather than guessing at what corona is doing in Africa.  

Not to mention that we’ve been talking for nearly a year now about the risks of not having a more robust vaccine plan in Africa.  And again, it’s African countries who are taking the blame. The African country I live in has one of the highest vaccination rates on the continent because they’ve been able to source vaccines effectively and they already had the infrastructure in place to distribute them, but our vaccine rate is still only 20%.  This is as good as it gets, and still, we’re nowhere near having herd immunity.

[Ausmumof3]

16 cases here linked to a theatre production today.  I believe there was 50 attending. All vaxed. 

must admit I think I was in a bit of denial that it would actually happen.