Jump to content

Menu

wuhan - coronavirus


gardenmom5

Recommended Posts

@Ausmumof3

Pre-departure tests were negative https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/all-staff-on-sia-flight-from-spore-to-sydney-that-had-two-cases-of-omicron-covid-19-strain

”The travellers departed from Johannesburg, South Africa, on Nov 27 via Flight SQ481 and arrived at Changi Airport the same day for their transit flight, said MOH, adding that their pre-departure Covid-19 tests were negative”

  • Sad 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN2IE0OZ
“LISBON (Reuters) -Portugal detected 13 cases of the Omicron coronavirus variant on Monday, all involving players and staff of top division soccer club Belenenses SAD, one of whose players recently returned from South Africa, health authority DGS said. 

The diagnoses were made after the Lisbon club played a Primeira Liga match against Benfica on Saturday that started with only nine Belenenses players on the pitch because of a COVID-19 outbreak.

….

Belenenses defender Cafu Phete tested positive for COVID-19 after returning from international duty in South Africa on Nov. 17, and he and 12 others at the club were confirmed on Monday to be infected with the Omicron variant, which was first detected last week in southern Africa.

DGS chief Graça Freitas told broadcaster SIC that nearly all Belenenses players had been vaccinated against COVID-19, adding that all their high- and low-risk contacts would get tested. 

A club spokesman said most of those infected were asymptomatic or had mild symptoms, and that 44 players and staff were self-isolating and waiting to repeat tests. 

The Benfica and Belenenses presidents said that, had they not played the match, they risked being penalised for an "unjustified absence". They blamed the league and DGS for not postponing the game.“

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Arcadia said:

@Ausmumof3

Pre-departure tests were negative https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/all-staff-on-sia-flight-from-spore-to-sydney-that-had-two-cases-of-omicron-covid-19-strain

”The travellers departed from Johannesburg, South Africa, on Nov 27 via Flight SQ481 and arrived at Changi Airport the same day for their transit flight, said MOH, adding that their pre-departure Covid-19 tests were negative”

I keep being confused by the timing on some of these positives from flights. I don’t know how long before the flight the tests were taken and whether they were PCR or lateral flow. I’m not sure if the thought is that they contracted it before getting on the flight or that they contracted it on flight and had positive tests that quickly after. That would seem odd and a bit concerning. All the flights I’ve seen that happen with have been long flights though. Then again, a large portion of flights leaving South Africa are long flights as they are leaving the continent altogether.

Edited by KSera
So many typos
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, KSera said:

I keep being confused by the timing on some of these positives from flights. I don’t know how long before the flight the test were taken and whether they were PCR or lateral flow. i’m not sure if the thought is that they contracted it before getting on the flight or that they contracted it on flight and had positive tests that quickly after. That would seem odd and a bit concerning. All the flights I’ve seen that happen with have been long flights though. Then again, A large portion of flights leaving South Africa are long flights as they are leaving the continent altogether.

The flight itself was about 10hr 25 mins from Johannesburg to Singapore. No idea when the pre departure tests were done by the travelers. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

34 minutes ago, wathe said:

I think that for a lot of countries, pre-departure tests can be done up to 72h before the flight.  So plenty of time to become infected between the test time and the departure time.

Yeah, I understand logistically why they do it that way, but it doesn’t make very good public health sense to me. Three days is a lot of time for someone to convert from negative to positive. A negative PCR within 72 hours combined with a negative lateral flow within hours of boarding would make more sense if you really wanted to catch as many cases as possible before boarding. 

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, Dmmetler said:

I am really hoping the FDA gets a move on and lets high risk teens be boostered. Schools are incubators, and many Southern states now have passed state laws and executive orders basically removing closing schools to prevent spread from the toolbox entirely. 16-17 yr olds mostly were able to be vaccinated in Spring (some high risk ones in Winter or early Spring), and 12-15 in Summer. They're all at or coming up to 6 months quickly-with Christmas coming and a new variant that is probably here already. 

 

 

11 hours ago, Spryte said:

Yes, I am anxious about that as well. DS is very high risk, and will be 18 in Jan, so he can’t be boosted until then, but by then it will have been 10 months for him.

 

9 hours ago, SHP said:

Interesting. My child's specialist, the children's hospital, and the national board for that specialty have not yet suggested that the under 18's get the 3rd shot. 

 

4 hours ago, mommyoffive said:

Do you have more info on this?  Have you done it? Or known anyone that has?  I haven't heard of 12 -17 year olds getting boosted at all.  

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna7019
“WASHINGTON — Pfizer is expected to seek authorization this week for a Covid-19 vaccine booster for teenagers 16 and 17 years old, a source familiar with the process said Monday.

If it is granted emergency use authorization, the additional Pfizer-BioNTech shot would be the first vaccine booster for teens younger than 18.”

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, KSera said:

I'm wondering if in most countries where omicron has been just very recently imported, we're going to see almost all of the initial cases in fully vaccinated people because of the selection effect of those being the only people able to travel by air. It seems to me it will take a few weeks to see if the transmission rates differ between vaccinated and unvaccinated people (one thing that makes me sad and angry is the people who you can tell are just hoping and hoping that the vaccines don't hold up to this variant, so they can gleefully proclaim they were right (though they weren't). So sick.)

I haven't seen that. I am seeing  reports on media here hoping that this variant is a milder version- the mutation that people were hoping might happen. that doesn't make people so sick, but activates their immune system to respond and takes over from the more deadly variants. This would be a huge thing for countries that have a very low vaccinate rate. 

isn't that what immunologists were  hoping would happen - and something that has happened  in the past to other similar illnesses? or am I completely off base here?

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, KSera said:

Yeah, I understand logistically why they do it that way, but it doesn’t make very good public health sense to me. Three days is a lot of time for someone to convert from negative to positive. A negative PCR within 72 hours combined with a negative lateral flow within hours of boarding would make more sense if you really wanted to catch as many cases as possible before boarding. 

We’ve actually just gone back to this model because people weren’t getting their results before coming across the border.  I agree though.  Ideal would be two tests one at 72 and one before departure 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Melissa in Australia said:

I haven't seen that. I am seeing  reports on media here hoping that this variant is a milder version- the mutation that people were hoping might happen. that doesn't make people so sick, but activates their immune system to respond and takes over from the more deadly variants. This would be a huge thing for countries that have a very low vaccinate rate. 

isn't that what immunologists were  hoping would happen - and something that has happened  in the past to other similar illnesses? or am I completely off base here?

There’s speculation that that may happen but there’s no guarantees.  Many viruses like polio etc don’t mutate to become less problematic.  At this point from what I can see that’s based on one misquote from a doctor and a lot of speculation - no evidence that it’s more or less severe.  Hospitalisations are up in the area is was detected but that could just be a feature of more cases.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Arcadia said:

@Ausmumof3

Pre-departure tests were negative https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/all-staff-on-sia-flight-from-spore-to-sydney-that-had-two-cases-of-omicron-covid-19-strain

”The travellers departed from Johannesburg, South Africa, on Nov 27 via Flight SQ481 and arrived at Changi Airport the same day for their transit flight, said MOH, adding that their pre-departure Covid-19 tests were negative”

Thanks.  There’s a lot coming in which typically we’ve only seen with big outbreaks like the UK variant and then Delta.  

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Arcadia said:

 

 

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna7019
“WASHINGTON — Pfizer is expected to seek authorization this week for a Covid-19 vaccine booster for teenagers 16 and 17 years old, a source familiar with the process said Monday.

If it is granted emergency use authorization, the additional Pfizer-BioNTech shot would be the first vaccine booster for teens younger than 18.”

Yep, heard that on the news.  It doesn't help my teens however.  😞  I feel like the 12-15 year olds are left in a bad spot. 

  • Sad 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Spryte said:

I haven’t heard of anyone having this opportunity, either. We will be at a community vaccination site tomorrow, and I intend to ask in person. We have been unable to register online—since he’s 17, we aren’t able to click past that screen to attest to his medical status.

Both of mine are over 18, but I went to the CVS site to try and it worked for a hypothetical 13 year old if I chose third dose instead of booster and clicked the box they were compromised. I was able to get to choose an appointment time and day and it brought up available appointments. 
 

FTR, all four of us (ages 20-48) here were boosted before it was opened up to everyone and no one ever asked us at our appointments what our medical reason was for doing so. Three of the four of us had valid reasons anyway but I wanted Dh boosted as well. 

Edited by Joker2
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Joker2 said:

Both of mine are over 18, but I went to the CVS site to try and it worked for a hypothetical 13 year old if I chose third dose instead of booster and clicked the box they were compromised. I was able to get to choose an appointment time and day and it brought up available appointments. 
 

FTR, all four of us (ages 20-48) here were boosted before it was opened up to everyone and no one ever asked us at our appointments what our medical reason was for doing so. Three of the four of us had valid reasons anyway but I wanted Dh boosted as well. 

Oh! Thanks! I always forget about the third dose wording. I may try that.

 

ETA: we have immunology on board with this kid, we aren’t trying to sneak something over on anyone.

Edited by Spryte
  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, mommyoffive said:

Yep, I did that too and saw that it was letting me do it.  ARe you going to do it?  

I will talk to the “vaccinate our state” people today when we are all there for DD’s second shot. 
 

Yes, I would absolutely get DS a third shot if at all possible, and his doc is on board with that. We just haven’t been able to make it happen with the online scheduling. I am immune compromised, too, and still always forget about the third dose wording. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Spryte said:

You? Will you do it?

Heavily thinking about it right now and leaning towards yes.  My 13 and 15 year old are at 6 months early December.   With them letting 16 year olds do it, then I feel like my 15 year old (16 in a few months) needs that protection too.  And with Israel having already done it.....

I didn't even know this was an option until last night. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

When I went to book my third dose, some websites (notably Costco) wouldn’t allow me to book. I had to show a letter from my rheum to the pharmacist at the retail chain I went to to show I qualified, and was able to book only by showing up in person. The rollout has been very inconsistent and sites have been slow to update. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

When I got my third dose at Walgreens all I had to do was check a box that I was immune compromised. Then after I saw my PCP in October I noticed that she'd specifically listed "immunodeficient due to medication" under my conditions. I wonder if more and more providers are doing that so the patient does have easy proof if needed?

Edited by Pawz4me
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, mommyoffive said:

I wonder why they are not, but Walgreen/Cvs are?

I don’t know. It looks like they aren’t doing it for anyone under 18, immune issues or not. It had a similar statement re: boosters for under 18, but that was expected. 
 

I will try to book through Walgreens instead.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Melissa in Australia said:

I haven't seen that. I am seeing  reports on media here hoping that this variant is a milder version- the mutation that people were hoping might happen. that doesn't make people so sick, but activates their immune system to respond and takes over from the more deadly variants. This would be a huge thing for countries that have a very low vaccinate rate. 

isn't that what immunologists were  hoping would happen - and something that has happened  in the past to other similar illnesses? or am I completely off base here?

That’s a hope, and it’s what I hope, but it can just as easily go the other way. So until we know, we don’t know. I wasn’t talking about news media hoping for the vaccines to not work against omicron—that would be really bizarre—I’m talking about anti-vaxers all over social media. That’s what I was saying was sick. 

3 hours ago, lauraw4321 said:

Moderna CEO said the vaccines will struggle against omicron.  😞

I’m never a fan of this kind of statement coming from the CEO of a vaccine company, rather than one of the scientists. So far, I haven’t seen any scientists saying we have any definitive knowledge on this yet. Most are optimistic the vaccines will still be effective against severe illness and death, particularly for those who have been boostered. Hopefully we will have more definitive information soon. 

  • Like 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Spryte said:

Small frustrating update: I just went to our state’s vaccination site, and they are not doing third doses for immune compromised under 18s. “3rd dose (only for immunocompromised individuals 18 years and older)” 
 

 

Our 12 year old just got his second shot late October, so we are not facing this yet, and by the time we do, it will be well into spring, so hopefully cases will be heading back down. But has anybody considered just going to a site under a slightly different name (say middle name etc.) to get another shot for their at risk teens? Especially with the additional uncertainty due to Omicron, and cases really taking off in a lot of states with the holidays...In my state, we've never been asked for any identification because of course they want everybody to get a vaccination.

If a booster were risky for young teens, we would know by now thanks to Israel (they are really doing the world a service there with their vaccination and booster program!).

Edited by Mom_to3
  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Pfizer’s CEO said that he expects the current vaccines to offer some level of protection against Omicron. They expected they would have to redesign them at some point and it looks like that time is here. It’s a pain but at least a vaccine is on the horizon.

He also mentioned that they expect their new drug Paxlovid will work against Omicron. If given early it reduces death and hospitalization by about 90% which is impressive. And it can be taken at home preventing HCWs from being overburdened and exposed. They will probably start using it as a treatment this winter.

Some other anti-virals are about to be tested, too.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/pfizer-ceo-were-working-on-covid-vaccine-against-omicron/

Bourla told CNBC that his company on Friday began testing its current vaccine against the Omicron variant, which was first reported in South Africa and reignited fears of a global wave of COVID-19 infections.

“I don’t think the result will be the vaccines don’t protect,” Bourla said.

But the testing could show that existing shots “protect less,” which means “that we need to create a new vaccine,” Bourla said.

“Friday, we made our first DNA template, which is the first possible inflection of the development process of a new vaccine,” he said.

 

 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

So if they are going to quickly modify the vaccines for Omicron, would it be better to wait a little bit to get teens a third shot until it's been updated?   I would assume they couldn't get a third shot of the existing vaccine, and then right away get another shot of the newer vaccine?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Wheres Toto said:

So if they are going to quickly modify the vaccines for Omicron, would it be better to wait a little bit to get teens a third shot until it's been updated?   I would assume they couldn't get a third shot of the existing vaccine, and then right away get another shot of the newer vaccine?

I was wondering this as well as DH is due for boosters.  But the timeframe I heard was 100 days which is almost three months and delta is still a big thing here so I think we will get our boosters on schedule and hope there’s no conflict.

 

ETA I’m also really hoping they can work it for both strains so we don’t have to have both vaccines.  2 days in bed every two months is not something I’m looking forward to if that happens.

Edited by Ausmumof3
  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

57 minutes ago, Wheres Toto said:

So if they are going to quickly modify the vaccines for Omicron, would it be better to wait a little bit to get teens a third shot until it's been updated?   I would assume they couldn't get a third shot of the existing vaccine, and then right away get another shot of the newer vaccine?

I think this is a good point.

FWIW, I did speak to a nurse at the mass vaccination site, and she verified that even with immune compromised kids, we have to wait till he’s 18 to get a shot there. I know it’s different at some pharmacies, apparently. This was a dedicated site, hosted by our health department.

I am going to give it a bit of time, and see what changes in the next two weeks or so, and then decide what to do.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I found this thread on what we know about transmissibility, immune escape and virulence with Omicron really informative and clear.  Warning it’s long.  To be precise 41 tweets long.  But worth it if you want an overview of known and unknown stuff.

He says he favors the idea of a zoonotic origin from human to animal to human transmission.  How can we possibly prevent that if we can't vaccinate wild animals?  Where I live, they do a rabies vaccine drop once a year.  I wonder if there will be attempts to vaccinate wildlife in that way and if it would have to be done every 6 months or less to be effective.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The story about the masks not working comes from Hong Kong. Apparently one infected quarantined person with Omicron infected another one across the hallway. Apparently they never met, and they wore masks while leaving their quarantined rooms. So somehow the virus made through air from one room to another during the small timeframe the doors were open.

It’s also possible that these two quarantined individuals are not telling the truth and in fact they were in contact. The motivation for not being truthful is to avoid severe fines they would get if authorities found out they violated quarantine rules. 

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

The story about the masks not working comes from Hong Kong. Apparently one infected quarantined person with Omicron infected another one across the hallway. Apparently they never met, and they wore masks while leaving their quarantined rooms. So somehow the virus made through air from one room to another during the small timeframe the doors were open.

It’s also possible that these two quarantined individuals are not telling the truth and in fact they were in contact. The motivation for not being truthful is to avoid severe fines they would get if authorities found out they violated quarantine rules. 

Typically that’s what has happened here when we’ve had cases of unusual transmission etc.

I wonder how good the air flow/ventilation in the hotels is.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Typically that’s what has happened here when we’ve had cases of unusual transmission etc.

I wonder how good the air flow/ventilation in the hotels is.

The reason their situation is suspicious is because nobody else came down with it, and there have been other quarantined individuals on that floor. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, KSera said:

That’s a hope, and it’s what I hope, but it can just as easily go the other way. So until we know, we don’t know. I wasn’t talking about news media hoping for the vaccines to not work against omicron—that would be really bizarre—I’m talking about anti-vaxers all over social media. That’s what I was saying was sick. 

I’m never a fan of this kind of statement coming from the CEO of a vaccine company, rather than one of the scientists. So far, I haven’t seen any scientists saying we have any definitive knowledge on this yet. Most are optimistic the vaccines will still be effective against severe illness and death, particularly for those who have been boostered. Hopefully we will have more definitive information soon. 

Right. We don't know anything yet. To act as if we do is simply foolhardy. 

 

3 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I found this thread on what we know about transmissibility, immune escape and virulence with Omicron really informative and clear.  Warning it’s long.  To be precise 41 tweets long.  But worth it if you want an overview of known and unknown stuff.

Good thread, thank you. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

57 minutes ago, thewellerman said:

He says he favors the idea of a zoonotic origin from human to animal to human transmission.  How can we possibly prevent that if we can't vaccinate wild animals?  Where I live, they do a rabies vaccine drop once a year.  I wonder if there will be attempts to vaccinate wildlife in that way and if it would have to be done every 6 months or less to be effective.

Probably more likely we would have a warning system about interaction with species where it’s a known event.  It could also be possible to maintain a sentinel captive population to monitor? Although risky of course. Similar to how we do for bats. If it’s domesticated animals that could be tricky.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Probably more likely we would have a warning system about interaction with species where it’s a known event.  It could also be possible to maintain a sentinel captive population to monitor? Although risky of course. Similar to how we do for bats. If it’s domesticated animals that could be tricky.

I'm very worried about deer hunting season and the likelihood of it jumping species again with that much interaction.  

  • Sad 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Terabith said:

I'm very worried about deer hunting season and the likelihood of it jumping species again with that much interaction.  

Latest guidelines that I have seen: https://www.deseret.com/coronavirus/2021/11/17/22785304/hunting-deer-wear-a-mask-covid-coronavirus

They recommend wearing a mask while field-dressing the deer. 

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Wheres Toto said:

So if they are going to quickly modify the vaccines for Omicron, would it be better to wait a little bit to get teens a third shot until it's been updated?   I would assume they couldn't get a third shot of the existing vaccine, and then right away get another shot of the newer vaccine?

I've been seeing virus scientists on Twitter saying no, don't wait. It's going to take too long to have a new one and we know the risk is here now and the current vaccines are expected to still protect most people from serious illness or death.

3 hours ago, Spryte said:

I think this is a good point.

FWIW, I did speak to a nurse at the mass vaccination site, and she verified that even with immune compromised kids, we have to wait till he’s 18 to get a shot there. I know it’s different at some pharmacies, apparently. This was a dedicated site, hosted by our health department.

I am going to give it a bit of time, and see what changes in the next two weeks or so, and then decide what to do.

He is likely to be able to get one sooner as a 17 year old, assuming the booster for 16-17 year olds is approved shortly, as is expected.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Wheres Toto said:

So if they are going to quickly modify the vaccines for Omicron, would it be better to wait a little bit to get teens a third shot until it's been updated?  

 

4 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I was wondering this as well as DH is due for boosters.  But the timeframe I heard was 100 days which is almost three months and delta is still a big thing here so I think we will get our boosters on schedule and hope there’s no conflict.

 

ETA I’m also really hoping they can work it for both strains so we don’t have to have both vaccines.  2 days in bed every two months is not something I’m looking forward to if that happens.

 

1 hour ago, KSera said:

I've been seeing virus scientists on Twitter saying no, don't wait. It's going to take too long to have a new one and we know the risk is here now and the current vaccines are expected to still protect most people from serious illness or death.

My husband was waiting hoping for an improved version of the original vaccine before vaccination. But I read this article and the ones getting the “improved” version are the people in their test studies.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02854-3

”Pfizer, with its partner BioNTech, based in Mainz, Germany, is testing a Beta-specific RNA vaccine in a randomized, placebo-controlled clinical trial with up to 930 participants. In August, the companies began a trial of a multivalent vaccine that targets both the Delta and Alpha variants.

“We’re not doing that because we actually think we need a new vaccine for those strains,” says Philip Dormitzer, vice-president and chief scientific officer of viral vaccines and mRNA at Pfizer, based in New York City. “We want to practise all aspects of executing a strain change — the preclinical research, the manufacturing, the clinical testing and the regulatory submissions — so that if we do see a variant out there that truly escapes vaccine immunity, we’re ready to go fast.” Dormitzer says Pfizer currently has no plans to deploy its Beta or Delta vaccines among the public.”

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Wheres Toto said:

So if they are going to quickly modify the vaccines for Omicron, would it be better to wait a little bit to get teens a third shot until it's been updated?   I would assume they couldn't get a third shot of the existing vaccine, and then right away get another shot of the newer vaccine?

The UK has reduced the second-jab-to-booster interval to three months.  Apparently there is evidence for efficacy at that gap. I have had my Pfizer booster but can imagine there may be another round of jabs if Omicron turns out nasty, perhaps when this booster phase is over.  They are predicting full boostering of all willing adults with the current vaccine by the end of January.  Scotland is at 30 percent of total population right now.

Edited by Laura Corin
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Wheres Toto said:

So if they are going to quickly modify the vaccines for Omicron, would it be better to wait a little bit to get teens a third shot until it's been updated?   I would assume they couldn't get a third shot of the existing vaccine, and then right away get another shot of the newer vaccine?

I haven't been following this as closely as many, so I could be wrong. But I don't see how a new vaccine could be available really quickly. Sure they can probably develop one. But I *think* it will still have to go through clinical trials. I don't see how those could (or should) be skipped. And those take time. If Omicron is widely circulating (as the virus was when the clinical trial for the vaccines we have now were being  conducted) it will speed things up quite a lot. If it's not widely circulating it will take a lot longer.  There's a man on another message board I belong to who has considerable expertise in vaccine development, and his guesstimate is a year for a new vaccine to be available to the public.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Pawz4me said:

I haven't been following this as closely as many, so I could be wrong. But I don't see how a new vaccine could be available really quickly. Sure they can probably develop one. But I *think* it will still have to go through clinical trials. I don't see how those could (or should) be skipped. And those take time. If Omicron is widely circulating (as the virus was when the clinical trial for the vaccines we have now were being  conducted) it will speed things up quite a lot. If it's not widely circulating it will take a lot longer.  There's a man on another message board I belong to who has considerable expertise in vaccine development, and his guesstimate is a year for a new vaccine to be available to the public.

From what I've been reading, because this is a tweak rather than a whole new vaccine, it will not have to go through the full trials and they (both Pfizer and Moderna) are saying 100 days/ 3 months to get a new version shipping and going in arms once they commit to developing it. Apparently this is more like tweaking the yearly flu vax, which I also don't believe goes through full new-vax trials every year.  All along, they've been saying one of the benefits of the mRNA technology is the ability to rapidly adapt it to new variants. 

  • Like 9
Link to comment
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

From what I've been reading, because this is a tweak rather than a whole new vaccine, it will not have to go through the full trials and they (both Pfizer and Moderna) are saying 100 days/ 3 months to get a new version shipping and going in arms once they commit to developing it. Apparently this is more like tweaking the yearly flu vax, which I also don't believe goes through full new-vax trials every year.  All along, they've been saying one of the benefits of the mRNA technology is the ability to rapidly adapt it to new variants. 

Yes, this is what I read too and also that they would only need 24 trial participants.  It's unclear though, if this is for 5+ or just adults.  My youngers are scheduled for second doses today and I'm not keen on getting a third dose in three months, especially for the boys.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

55 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

From what I've been reading, because this is a tweak rather than a whole new vaccine, it will not have to go through the full trials and they (both Pfizer and Moderna) are saying 100 days/ 3 months to get a new version shipping and going in arms once they commit to developing it. Apparently this is more like tweaking the yearly flu vax, which I also don't believe goes through full new-vax trials every year.  All along, they've been saying one of the benefits of the mRNA technology is the ability to rapidly adapt it to new variants. 

That's been my understanding, too. But the person on the other message board is truly extremely well qualified to speak on these things, so . . it makes me wonder.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The omicron vaccine will be available to HCWs and public in about 100 days or so. The vaccine developers have been figuring out what they need to do even before omicron was detected. Here is Pfizer/BioNTech’s response:

https://www.advisory.com/daily-briefing/2021/11/30/omicron-vaccines

Pfizer and BioNTech said they "have immediately initiated investigations" on the variant and can quickly adapt their vaccine if necessary. "[This] data will provide more information about whether [omicron] could be an escape variant that may require an adjustment of our vaccine if the variant spreads globally," Pfizer and BioNTech said.

They added, "Pfizer and BioNTech have taken actions months ago to be able to adapt the mRNA vaccine within six weeks and ship initial batches within 100 days in the event of an escape variant."

*****

Several hundred second generation vaccines are being developed as well and some of these might be even better than the current mRNA vaccines. They are in different phases. The goal is to develop a vaccine that will offer as close to 100% protection that is long lasting even against VOCs. The current mRNA vaccines are pretty fantastic considering we had nothing initially but an even better vaccine would be wonderful.

Here is a blurb about one of the newer vaccines, Gritstone’s self-amplifying mRNA vaccine. This type of vaccine appears to be a good contender for future VOCs. A few of these are going into human trials in South Africa this month. Gritstone’s is in trials in the US and UK but I don’t know what phase it’s in.

https://www.pharmaceutical-technology.com/news/omicron-variant-gritstone-vaccines/

Quote

Gritstone bio’s Covid-19 vaccine is claimed to possess the ability to address newly developing viral variants of concern.

Gritstone bio has reported that the mutations seen within the Omicron (B.1.1.529) variant of the SARS-CoV-2 virus does not affect the viruses’ T cell epitopes (TCEs) delivered along with its self-amplifying messenger ribonucleic acid (mRNA) Covid-19 vaccines.

This indicates the ability of the platform to address newly developing viral variants of concern (VOCs).

Edited by BeachGal
  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...