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On 10/25/2021 at 12:45 PM, Dmmetler said:

I'll feel a lot better about vaccines for the under 12 set once the FDA finally meets on it. I have this fear that something else will hold it up, and any hold up at all will leave a lot of kids who are avidly awaiting the vaccine unprotected over the upcoming Winter break.  

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/10/26/fda-panel-recommends-pfizers-low-dose-covid-vaccine-for-kids-ages-5-to-11.html
The endorsement by the agency's Vaccines and Related Biological Products Advisory Committee will now be considered by the FDA, which could issue a final decision within days. The vote was nearly unanimous with 17 backing it and one abstention.”

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On 10/25/2021 at 5:30 PM, Melissa in Australia said:

I am failing to see the rush to get  children under 11 vaccinated. If everyone over 12 is vaccinated and those under 11 have only very mild covid why give them a vaccine that doesn't have benifits outweighing side effects for that age group. 

The whole push for the vaccine is that the negative side effects of it are outweighed by the benifits for older age groups. 

Because when a fairly large portion of the population isn't vaccinated, you can't control the disease. And then those kids act as a vector infecting their parents. The vaccine works well, but when you are a parent caring for a sick child you have so much exposure that you get breakthrough infections. That's how my sister caught it. She has what may be permanent neurological complications (brain fog, ataxia, tremors, aphasia, and vomiting) and has worked only 3 hours (not all in one day) in over a month. Forget the ethics of it, we can't afford economically to have our workforce effected that way. 

22% of the U.S. population is under 12 yrs old. If you can only at MOST vaccinate 78% of the people, and let's be honest...it is less than that...then you can't get back to "normal". 

Edited by ktgrok
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8 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

Because when a fairly large portion of the population isn't vaccinated, you can't control the disease. And then those kids act as a vector infecting their parents. The vaccine works well, but when you are a parent caring for a sick child you have so much exposure that you get breakthrough infections. That's how my sister caught it. She has what may be permanent neurological complications (brain fog, ataxia, tremors, aphasia, and vomiting) and has worked only 3 hours (not all in one day) in over a month. Forget the ethics of it, we can't afford economically to have our workforce effected that way. 

22% of the U.S. population is under 12 yrs old. If you can only at MOST vaccinate 78% of the people, and let's be honest...it is less than that...then you can't get back to "normal". 

This.

And for many parents, they need the younger ones vaxed because so many people refuse to vax their teens. The 12-17 vax rate in my county is only 11%. So for parents desperately trying to protect their elderly, themselves, other sick people in the household, it is vital to vax their young ones.

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1 hour ago, ktgrok said:

Because when a fairly large portion of the population isn't vaccinated, you can't control the disease. And then those kids act as a vector infecting their parents. The vaccine works well, but when you are a parent caring for a sick child you have so much exposure that you get breakthrough infections. That's how my sister caught it. She has what may be permanent neurological complications (brain fog, ataxia, tremors, aphasia, and vomiting) and has worked only 3 hours (not all in one day) in over a month. Forget the ethics of it, we can't afford economically to have our workforce effected that way. 

22% of the U.S. population is under 12 yrs old. If you can only at MOST vaccinate 78% of the people, and let's be honest...it is less than that...then you can't get back to "normal". 

Here is is rapidly approaching over 95% first dose  for over 12 and 80% second dose 

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29 minutes ago, Melissa in Australia said:

Here is is rapidly approaching over 95% first dose  for over 12 and 80% second dose 

Right, but even if you hit 100 percent for those over 12, that's still only 78% (here anyway) of total population. And those kids are in contact with a lot of adults. 

Edited by ktgrok
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304 cases for NSW and 1,534 for Vic - so again holding steady. 76% fully vaccinated in Vic, 85% for NSW (above age 16). Big disparity in areas though, with some areas only 50% vaccinated. And young people still dying - a 30 year man was one of three people who have died from covid in NSW in the last 24 hrs. 

Good news about boosters though, sounds like they'll be available to anyone who had any vaccine 6mths ago, from November. Which is good as police, healthcare etc were done back in April. 

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3 hours ago, bookbard said:

304 cases for NSW and 1,534 for Vic - so again holding steady. 76% fully vaccinated in Vic, 85% for NSW (above age 16). Big disparity in areas though, with some areas only 50% vaccinated. And young people still dying - a 30 year man was one of three people who have died from covid in NSW in the last 24 hrs. 

Good news about boosters though, sounds like they'll be available to anyone who had any vaccine 6mths ago, from November. Which is good as police, healthcare etc were done back in April. 

I'm so relieved that boosters are coming. One of my daughters was in phase 1b, so her six month mark is coming up. I was worried that her immunity would start waning just as more things start opening up.

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1 hour ago, chocolate-chip chooky said:

I'm so relieved that boosters are coming. One of my daughters was in phase 1b, so her six month mark is coming up. I was worried that her immunity would start waning just as more things start opening up.

That's wonderful.

Our most vulnerable family member has a third dose appt lined up next week. Thank goodness. If I can get a six month booster in Dec, I'll really be happy. 

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https://www.kptv.com/general/immunocompromised-may-need-a-fourth-covid-19-shot-cdc-says/article_eca0d4e4-7341-5bf8-be71-b9707e23e72e.html?fbclid=IwAR1hX26Zygjt_0AyLes_1DP9f-NHfBm7WyOCkwHqXNReYvE7mt9AkrvVyZU

Just saw this. 

Article also notes that vaccinated immunocompromised persons were 485x more likely to end up hospitalized or die compared to most vaccinated persons.  Article reports 44% of breakthrough cases that end up hospitalized are of immunocompromised persons.  This is the first time I've seen numbers attached to those things.

updated CDC guidelines: https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/clinical-considerations/covid-19-vaccines-us.html#considerations-covid19-vax-immunocopromised  

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I am furious. The local county health department has dropped the mask mandate except for schools/daycare centers. Couldn't they hang on through the holiday season, by which point Parents who want to get their kids vaccinated should have had opportunity and enough time for them to be fully vaccinated. 

 

I'm not changing my policies, since parents signed up with a mandate in place (and most of my kids are under 12), and I have several kids with very high risk family members or that work with high risk people. 

 

 

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Answered my six month v-safe check-in questions.  And no, I haven't had any terrible things happen since getting the vaccine (after an initial autoimmune flare which I totally expected). 

Meanwhile I just heard again about a young person with long-covid who is having debilitating neurological issues after getting Covid.  Absolutely no preexisting conditions, previously very healthy 24 year old male.  Still able to hold a job but barely. 

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16 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41423-021-00779-5
 

I can’t keep track of all the variants and I’m too tired to process this properly but i think this means immune evasion to some degree?

It actually argues in favor of mix and match vaccines. "Nevertheless, heterologous ChAdOx1 nCoV-19/BNT162b2 vaccination, which was previously shown to augment neutralizing antibody responses against VOCs compared to corresponding homologous vaccinations [7, 10], might offer robust protection against the A.30 variant."

Also "Collectively, our results suggest that the SARS-CoV-2 variant A.30 can evade control by vaccine-induced antibodies and might show an increased capacity to enter cells in a cathepsin L-dependent manner, which might particularly aid in the extrapulmonary spread." I haven't spent the time to decipher that part. 

Edited by melmichigan
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19 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41423-021-00779-5
 

I can’t keep track of all the variants and I’m too tired to process this properly but i think this means immune evasion to some degree?

From what I’ve read, A.30 is being outcompeted by delta. It was last detected in May and has not been seen since then. It is not a variant of concern.

This paper discusses what they observed about it.

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https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2785892?guestAccessKey=ba5a8e9f-82f2-42d4-add3-bdaedbb727c3&utm_source=silverchair&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=article_alert-jama&utm_content=olf&utm_term=102921
 

US related info- financial impact of Covid on patients and families

“It is a great testament to the fragmented US health care system that insurers, policy makers, and caregivers were able to mount a rapid response to help protect patients from financial toxicity from COVID-19. But these efforts were a stopgap measure, and despite threats of further surges in cases, Congress has a waning appetite for allocating additional emergency funds. Moreover, the long-term fiscal effects of COVID-19 are now emerging: 23% of patients hospitalized with COVID-19 in a national cohort reported having exhausted their savings after the hospitalization.6 Any new efforts to mitigate financial harm to patients should also consider what has been learned about disparate losses across the health care system. Insurers have reported record profits due to reductions in health care utilization; some large health systems did not experience anticipated losses and returned Provider Relief Funds back to the federal government. At the same time, primary care practices and smaller safety net clinicians and health care centers have struggled to take advantage of relief funds and to compete with larger institutions that pivoted quickly to alternative service models, such as telemedicine.”

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NSW under 200 - 177 cases, and VIC lower than I've seen in a while, 1,036 cases. They're weekend numbers though. Apparently Sydney-siders can go to the regions from tomorrow. Looks like it's still a while before there's free travel between NSW and VIC though. 

My kids going back to school tomorrow. There's only a handful of cases in our area, hoping none of them are school-aged kids. 

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20 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Globally both deaths and cases have starting trending up again.  Locally things are looking like they are trending down though I guess we have yet to see.

Cases and deaths have jumped significantly all across Europe, and are also heading up in S. Korea, Vietnam, Taiwan, and parts of Latin America. It makes me concerned about the upcoming holiday season, since it often seems that the trends we see in Europe show up in the US a few weeks later. So glad kids will be able to get vaxed soon and have full protection by Christmas.

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1 hour ago, Corraleno said:

Cases and deaths have jumped significantly all across Europe, and are also heading up in S. Korea, Vietnam, Taiwan, and parts of Latin America. It makes me concerned about the upcoming holiday season, since it often seems that the trends we see in Europe show up in the US a few weeks later. So glad kids will be able to get vaxed soon and have full protection by Christmas.

Still Delta variant? I am hopeful that the U.S. won’t see another surge of Delta.

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3 hours ago, Corraleno said:

Cases and deaths have jumped significantly all across Europe, and are also heading up in S. Korea, Vietnam, Taiwan, and parts of Latin America. It makes me concerned about the upcoming holiday season, since it often seems that the trends we see in Europe show up in the US a few weeks later. So glad kids will be able to get vaxed soon and have full protection by Christmas.

Yep I agree.  That has been the trend so far each time.  

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4 hours ago, Corraleno said:

Cases and deaths have jumped significantly all across Europe, and are also heading up in S. Korea, Vietnam, Taiwan, and parts of Latin America. It makes me concerned about the upcoming holiday season, since it often seems that the trends we see in Europe show up in the US a few weeks later. So glad kids will be able to get vaxed soon and have full protection by Christmas.

Scotland has been dropping recently but has now plateaued.  Most cases in children and their parents, and young people. 

https://public.tableau.com/app/profile/phs.covid.19/viz/COVID-19DailyDashboard_15960160643010/Overview

 

Screenshot_20211101-072552_Chrome.jpg

Screenshot_20211101-072810_Chrome.jpg

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Really good news on fluvoxamine from a large RCT in Brazil:

"The results were stronger in a smaller group that excluded patients in the treatment arm who failed to follow through and take the full course of the drug. In the group that largely followed doctors’ orders—taking the pills at least 80% of the time—the risk of hospitalization was 66% less than in those in the placebo group. Just one of the treated patients died, compared with 12 who received the placebo."

The trial included 1500 patients who were unvaccinated and had at least one factor that increased their risk of hospitalization. (Kind of blows my mind that lots of people in a high risk category chose NOT to follow doctor's orders, didn't take the full course of the drug, and ended up hospitalized because of it.)

Summary in Sciencehttps://www.science.org/content/article/ocd-drug-shows-promise-against-covid-19?utm_campaign=SciMag&utm_source=Social&utm_medium=Facebook

Original paper in The Lancet Global Healthhttps://www.thelancet.com/journals/langlo/article/PIIS2214-109X(21)00448-4/fulltext

 

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3 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

Really good news on fluvoxamine from a large RCT in Brazil:

"The results were stronger in a smaller group that excluded patients in the treatment arm who failed to follow through and take the full course of the drug. In the group that largely followed doctors’ orders—taking the pills at least 80% of the time—the risk of hospitalization was 66% less than in those in the placebo group. Just one of the treated patients died, compared with 12 who received the placebo."

The trial included 1500 patients who were unvaccinated and had at least one factor that increased their risk of hospitalization. (Kind of blows my mind that lots of people in a high risk category chose NOT to follow doctor's orders, didn't take the full course of the drug, and ended up hospitalized because of it.)

Summary in Sciencehttps://www.science.org/content/article/ocd-drug-shows-promise-against-covid-19?utm_campaign=SciMag&utm_source=Social&utm_medium=Facebook

Original paper in The Lancet Global Healthhttps://www.thelancet.com/journals/langlo/article/PIIS2214-109X(21)00448-4/fulltext

 

This is compelling enough that I'm kinda sorta pondering weaning off my antidepressant that is working very well but that is contraindicated to take with fluvoxamine because of risk of serotonin syndrome.  Probably won't, because it's working really well, but arg.  Dilemmas.  

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27 minutes ago, Terabith said:

This is compelling enough that I'm kinda sorta pondering weaning off my antidepressant that is working very well but that is contraindicated to take with fluvoxamine because of risk of serotonin syndrome.  Probably won't, because it's working really well, but arg.  Dilemmas.  

Obviously this is something you should talk to your psych about, but given that you’re vaccinated, it doesn’t seem like a compelling reason to go off your medication that is working well for you. The potential for that to have harmful effects on you seems much higher than your vaccinated risk from Covid. Have you or will you get a booster? If you’re boosted and maybe you can find out if monoclonal antibodies are available if you needed them, that seems like maybe a better plan?

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5 minutes ago, KSera said:

Obviously this is something you should talk to your psych about, but given that you’re vaccinated, it doesn’t seem like a compelling reason to go off your medication that is working well for you. The potential for that to have harmful effects on you seems much higher than your vaccinated risk from Covid. Have you or will you get a booster? If you’re boosted and maybe you can find out if monoclonal antibodies are available if you needed them, that seems like maybe a better plan?

I get boosted on Thursday.  I put it off a bit because we've kept having events that I don't want to be potentially compromised for.  And monoclonal antibodies are definitely available if I need them; when I had what turned out to be a generic upper respiratory costume, my doctor had me get a covid test and said that I could get the antibodies if needed.  

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34 minutes ago, Terabith said:

This is compelling enough that I'm kinda sorta pondering weaning off my antidepressant that is working very well but that is contraindicated to take with fluvoxamine because of risk of serotonin syndrome.  Probably won't, because it's working really well, but arg.  Dilemmas.  

There's some evidence that antidepressants in general may reduce risks of hospitalization and death. Fluvoxamine may have additional antiviral activity, but other meds may still be helpful. E.g. this is from a meta analysis published in Nature last February:

"This analysis showed a significant association between antidepressant use and reduced risk of intubation or death (HR, 0.56; 95% CI, 0.43–0.73, p < 0.001). This association remained significant in multiple sensitivity analyses. Exploratory analyses suggest that this association was also significant for SSRI and non-SSRI antidepressants, and for fluoxetine, paroxetine, escitalopram, venlafaxine, and mirtazapine (all p < 0.05). These results suggest that antidepressant use could be associated with lower risk of death or intubation in patients hospitalized for COVID-19."

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41380-021-01021-4

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1 minute ago, Corraleno said:

There's some evidence that antidepressants in general may reduce risks of hospitalization and death. Fluvoxamine may have additional antiviral activity, but other meds may still be helpful. E.g. this is from a meta analysis published in Nature last February:

"This analysis showed a significant association between antidepressant use and reduced risk of intubation or death (HR, 0.56; 95% CI, 0.43–0.73, p < 0.001). This association remained significant in multiple sensitivity analyses. Exploratory analyses suggest that this association was also significant for SSRI and non-SSRI antidepressants, and for fluoxetine, paroxetine, escitalopram, venlafaxine, and mirtazapine (all p < 0.05). These results suggest that antidepressant use could be associated with lower risk of death or intubation in patients hospitalized for COVID-19."

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41380-021-01021-4

Unfortunately, I'm on an older, tricylic antidepressant, nortriptyaline.  Which might also help, but isn't mentioned in the study.  (As it rarely is, since it's not used very often.)

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1 hour ago, Terabith said:

Unfortunately, I'm on an older, tricylic antidepressant, nortriptyaline.  Which might also help, but isn't mentioned in the study.  (As it rarely is, since it's not used very often.)

Terabith, talk to a doc who is actively treating COVID patients. ( I found one locally by asking around and then being very direct about what I was looking in phone calls to medical offices, until I found one that I really, really like; probably my new PCP since mine retired.)

One of our family members has a similar situation with not wanting to mix SSRIs with other meds that would confict. 

The doc who will treat him for COVID has several other meds he uses in conjunction with MAbs. He was not phased at. all. by having to reach for a second drug instead of fluvoxamine.  

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Apparently Australia is now looking at the data for 5-11yr old vaccines and the suggestion is that it should be available before the end of the year. Unfortunately my husband really isn't keen. I am, and will probably get my way, but it's frustrating, because it's not based on data or anything, just a big 'what if' (but then again, my feelings aren't based hugely on data either, but the other side of the 'what if'.) 

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https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-11-02/covid-19-vaccine-developer-facing-sack-after-refusing-jabs/100587356

A vaccine developer will be fired this week for not being vaccinated - but he is vaccinated with the vaccine that he helped develop for Australia.

 He is extremely miffed says he is the most pro vaccine person there is

just shows how unreasonable and no commonsense at all being used in the mad rush to force everyone in some states of Australia to be vaccinated- even people who already are.

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7 hours ago, Melissa in Australia said:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-11-02/covid-19-vaccine-developer-facing-sack-after-refusing-jabs/100587356

A vaccine developer will be fired this week for not being vaccinated - but he is vaccinated with the vaccine that he helped develop for Australia.

 He is extremely miffed says he is the most pro vaccine person there is

just shows how unreasonable and no commonsense at all being used in the mad rush to force everyone in some states of Australia to be vaccinated- even people who already are.

I’ve been wondering where he’s at as he’s local - I googled earlier today and they’re in phase three trials.  I must admit I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s pulling a bit of a publicity stunt.  

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2 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I’ve been wondering where he’s at as he’s local - I googled earlier today and they’re in phase three trials.  I must admit I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s pulling a bit of a publicity stunt.  

That seems likely. FWIW, my kid’s college accepts vaccines approved by other countries precisely because of not wanting students to risk interactions between two different vaccines. Which makes sense to me. It also seems that being in a vaccine trial should be a reasonable exemption. You can’t test the effectiveness of a vaccine if those in the trial have to be vaccinated with a different vaccine! 

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NSW at 190 today, Vic again under 1,000 with 941 new cases. VIC I think has overtaken NSW in terms of number of cases this outbreak? ACT has 15 new cases, so it's still going on steadily there, and NZ 100. Funny how the Australian press reports NZ like it's another state! None of the other states/territories have reported any cases.

Apparently there'll be a decision about kids and vaccines in Australia by the end of November. Hope so. 

 

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