wuhan - coronavirus

[Melissa in Australia]

nd now the state government has changed its mind and said that the restrictions on shopping if not double dosed will happen AFTER the later in  nov date for everyone to get vaccinated, not this friday.. 

 this is why everyone is so anxious and confused. they announce something  at a press conference then change their mind a few hours later. it is awful

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-10-24/covid-updates-victoria-queensland-nsw-cases-vaccine/100563082

Clarification on vaccines for Victorian retail patrons

If you were listening to the Victorian press conference earlier, you would have heard Health Minister Martin Foley and Premier Daniel Andrews saying that all staff and patrons at non-essential retail stores would have to be vaccinated from this Friday.

The government has just clarified that this rule will not apply to all staff and shoppers until the following stage of the roadmap, which is expected to be from late November.

Mr Foley suggested there would be a “transition” period before all retail staff would need to be vaccinated.

If we get more clarity from the government about when all staff will need to have both doses, we will let you know.

Edited October 24, 2021 by Melissa in Australia

[Melissa in Australia]

forgot to add that it is meant to be a standing mandate until 2023.... but who knows .....they changed it within 4 hours of the first announcement

[LMD]

well the mandates aren't law and once the state of emergency ends the chief health officer won't have authority to write mandates. eg, the Open Premises Direction is only in force from 23 Oct - 18 Nov (when the monthly SOE renewal needs to be done)

What happens with all this after Dec (when the SOE properly runs out) depends on what is contained in the reported 'pandemic plan' bill which will need to be passed by parliament. No one knows much about it yet.

[Ausmumof3]

2 hours ago, Melissa in Australia said:

nd now the state government has changed its mind and said that the restrictions on shopping if not double dosed will happen AFTER the later in  nov date for everyone to get vaccinated, not this friday.. 

 this is why everyone is so anxious and confused. they announce something  at a press conference then change their mind a few hours later. it is awful

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-10-24/covid-updates-victoria-queensland-nsw-cases-vaccine/100563082

Clarification on vaccines for Victorian retail patrons

If you were listening to the Victorian press conference earlier, you would have heard Health Minister Martin Foley and Premier Daniel Andrews saying that all staff and patrons at non-essential retail stores would have to be vaccinated from this Friday.

The government has just clarified that this rule will not apply to all staff and shoppers until the following stage of the roadmap, which is expected to be from late November.

Mr Foley suggested there would be a “transition” period before all retail staff would need to be vaccinated.

If we get more clarity from the government about when all staff will need to have both doses, we will let you know.

It does all seem to be a bit of a shambles.  Such a big pivot.  Hopefully you get some more consistent messaging soon.

[Ausmumof3]

Automatic translation 

The Municipality of Belém, through Sesma, warns that a Delta subvariant (AY.33), which is already circulating in Belém, may not be detected by rapid tests and by standard RT-qPCR protocols, and that anyone with symptoms compatible with COVID-19+ should be advised to maintain social isolation for 14 days.
 Despite the current stability in the number of COVID-19 cases, Sesma determines that the reporting units are attentive to the care of suspected COVID-19 cases, carrying out IMMEDIATE NOTIFICATION +

[Ausmumof3]

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2785388
 

Cognitive function after Covid

In this study, we found a relatively high frequency of cognitive impairment several months after patients contracted COVID-19. Impairments in executive functioning, processing speed, category fluency, memory encoding, and recall were predominant among hospitalized patients. The relative sparing of memory recognition in the context of impaired encoding and recall suggests an executive pattern. This pattern is consistent with early reports describing a dysexecutive syndrome after COVID-19⁴ and has considerable implications for occupational, psychological, and functional outcomes. It is well known that certain populations (eg, older adults) may be particularly susceptible to cognitive impairment after critical illness⁵; however, in the relatively young cohort in the present study, a substantial proportion exhibited cognitive dysfunction several months after recovering from COVID-19. The findings of this study are generally consistent with those of research on other viruses (eg, influenza).⁶

Limitations of this study include a potential sampling bias, as some participants may have presented to Mount Sinai Health System because of health concerns. Future studies should investigate long-term post–COVID-19 cognitive trajectories and the association with neuroimaging findings to assess potential mechanisms.

[Melissa Louise]

https://theconversation.com/covid-doesnt-need-to-run-rampant-here-are-6-ways-to-keep-cases-low-in-the-next-year-170207

[Melissa Louise]

23 schools shut due to Covid on the first day back.

[mommyoffive]

State of Affairs: Oct 25, 2021 - by Katelyn Jetelina - Your Local Epidemiologist (substack.com)

[Arcadia]

https://www.marketwatch.com/amp/story/fauci-says-u-s-on-track-to-start-vaccinating-kids-aged-5-to-11-by-november-as-fda-advisers-prepare-to-meet-on-the-matter-11635172684
“WASHINGTON, Oct 24 (Reuters) - Vaccines for kids between the ages of 5 and 11 will likely be available in the first half of November, top U.S. infectious disease expert Anthony Fauci said on Sunday, predicting a timetable that could see many kids getting fully vaccinated before the end of the year.

"If all goes well, and we get the regulatory approval and the recommendation from the CDC, it's entirely possible if not very likely that vaccines will be available for children from 5 to 11 within the first week or two of November," Fauci said in an interview with ABC's This Week.

“

[Dmmetler]

I'll feel a lot better about vaccines for the under 12 set once the FDA finally meets on it. I have this fear that something else will hold it up, and any hold up at all will leave a lot of kids who are avidly awaiting the vaccine unprotected over the upcoming Winter break.  

 

 

[Melissa in Australia]

I am failing to see the rush to get  children under 11 vaccinated. If everyone over 12 is vaccinated and those under 11 have only very mild covid why give them a vaccine that doesn't have benifits outweighing side effects for that age group. 

The whole push for the vaccine is that the negative side effects of it are outweighed by the benifits for older age groups. 

[Melissa Louise]

Because once the disease takes hold in an unvaccinated population - say, children - it spreads into other age groups for whom vaccines have less efficacy. As seen recently in the UK. 

Also - some kids DO get very sick. Some die. Some kids get post Covid syndromes. We also don't know what else is a long term effect on organs incl brain  of Covid infection in children. So avoiding the disease seems sensible. 

I hope eventually it will be added to the childhood schedule so I can go back to working with children in person. I hope it will protect the vulnerable children I know, who are very likely to react poorly to a Covid infection.

Vaccinations are an effective tool for public and individual health, and there's a limit to which I personally can tolerate anti vaccination stances. 

[KSera]

1 hour ago, Melissa Louise said:

We also don't know what else is a long term effect on organs incl brain  of Covid infection in children. So avoiding the disease seems sensible. 

Yes. In addition to the public health ramifications (I wouldn't bring my unvaccinated kids around my elderly parents except outdoors for example), my concern about possible unknown long term complications of covid infection is way, way higher than the same for the vaccine. There's no reason to think a vaccine (which clears the body pretty quickly) would have any as yet unseen long term effects, while there's plenty of precedent for diseases to have long term effects that take a long time to show up. And we already know of some of those with covid. I just don't want to take the gamble that this brand new disease is not any risk to my kids. I feel much safer with the vaccine that way.

[Ausmumof3]

2 hours ago, Melissa in Australia said:

I am failing to see the rush to get  children under 11 vaccinated. If everyone over 12 is vaccinated and those under 11 have only very mild covid why give them a vaccine that doesn't have benifits outweighing side effects for that age group. 

The whole push for the vaccine is that the negative side effects of it are outweighed by the benifits for older age groups. 

For me it’s because of concerns over long term damage both potential lung scarring and cognitive effects, particularly the recent suggestions about executive function stuff.  No one in my family has capacity to spare in that department. We have very little long term data on what impacts the virus may have down the track but there is evidence of damage sometime in even mild or asymptomatic cases.  I don’t want to take that risk for my kids.

plus it’s not 100pc true that it’s always mild.  It has something like a 2pc hospitalisation rate. Some kids die. 

[bookbard]

282 for NSW today, 1510 for VIC - so that's pretty steady numbers. QLD have two, which is new - hopefully not the start of anything. 

[Ausmumof3]

1 minute ago, bookbard said:

282 for NSW today, 1510 for VIC - so that's pretty steady numbers. QLD have two, which is new - hopefully not the start of anything. 

Feels like Vic is decreasing a bit though time will tell.  

[Melissa Louise]

Department of Ed denied my leave request, and won't let me take sick leave. Unless I take leave without pay, I'll have to go in. 

Edited October 26, 2021 by Melissa Louise

[bookbard]

Looks like South Australia is opening their borders around 23 Nov. 

I *think* NSW is allowing people from Sydney into regional areas from Nov 1. 

I still don't know when/whether people from NSW can go to and from Vic without quarantine? I really want to visit a family member with a terminal diagnosis who lives in a regional area of Vic but have no clue when it's going to be possible. I won't be able to stay with them, so I am scouting out accommodation but have no idea when to book.

Just now, Melissa Louise said:

Department of Ed denied my leave request, and won't let me take sick leave. Unless I take leave without pay, I'll have to go in. 

Oh that's so frustrating. How is your school set up for doing stuff outdoors?

[Melissa Louise]

Just now, bookbard said:

 

Oh that's so frustrating. How is your school set up for doing stuff outdoors?

There's not enough outdoor space for the whole school. I was in last week with just K and 1, and there's room for them, but even so, it's not set up for them to be out all day. 

Most kids (95%+) were unmasked, and the ventilation was clearly sub par. 

 

 

[Ausmumof3]

1 hour ago, bookbard said:

Looks like South Australia is opening their borders around 23 Nov. 

I *think* NSW is allowing people from Sydney into regional areas from Nov 1. 

I still don't know when/whether people from NSW can go to and from Vic without quarantine? I really want to visit a family member with a terminal diagnosis who lives in a regional area of Vic but have no clue when it's going to be possible. I won't be able to stay with them, so I am scouting out accommodation but have no idea when to book.

Oh that's so frustrating. How is your school set up for doing stuff outdoors?

Yes plus reducing quarantine time to 7 days.  Really hope they make a decision on vaccines for 5-11s and make boosters available.  I’m thinking we will have a quiet summer. 

[Arcadia]

On 10/25/2021 at 12:45 PM, Dmmetler said:

I'll feel a lot better about vaccines for the under 12 set once the FDA finally meets on it. I have this fear that something else will hold it up, and any hold up at all will leave a lot of kids who are avidly awaiting the vaccine unprotected over the upcoming Winter break.  

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/10/26/fda-panel-recommends-pfizers-low-dose-covid-vaccine-for-kids-ages-5-to-11.html
“The endorsement by the agency's Vaccines and Related Biological Products Advisory Committee will now be considered by the FDA, which could issue a final decision within days. The vote was nearly unanimous with 17 backing it and one abstention.”

[ktgrok]

On 10/25/2021 at 5:30 PM, Melissa in Australia said:

I am failing to see the rush to get  children under 11 vaccinated. If everyone over 12 is vaccinated and those under 11 have only very mild covid why give them a vaccine that doesn't have benifits outweighing side effects for that age group. 

The whole push for the vaccine is that the negative side effects of it are outweighed by the benifits for older age groups. 

Because when a fairly large portion of the population isn't vaccinated, you can't control the disease. And then those kids act as a vector infecting their parents. The vaccine works well, but when you are a parent caring for a sick child you have so much exposure that you get breakthrough infections. That's how my sister caught it. She has what may be permanent neurological complications (brain fog, ataxia, tremors, aphasia, and vomiting) and has worked only 3 hours (not all in one day) in over a month. Forget the ethics of it, we can't afford economically to have our workforce effected that way. 

22% of the U.S. population is under 12 yrs old. If you can only at MOST vaccinate 78% of the people, and let's be honest...it is less than that...then you can't get back to "normal". 

Edited October 26, 2021 by ktgrok

[Faith-manor]

8 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

Because when a fairly large portion of the population isn't vaccinated, you can't control the disease. And then those kids act as a vector infecting their parents. The vaccine works well, but when you are a parent caring for a sick child you have so much exposure that you get breakthrough infections. That's how my sister caught it. She has what may be permanent neurological complications (brain fog, ataxia, tremors, aphasia, and vomiting) and has worked only 3 hours (not all in one day) in over a month. Forget the ethics of it, we can't afford economically to have our workforce effected that way. 

22% of the U.S. population is under 12 yrs old. If you can only at MOST vaccinate 78% of the people, and let's be honest...it is less than that...then you can't get back to "normal". 

This.

And for many parents, they need the younger ones vaxed because so many people refuse to vax their teens. The 12-17 vax rate in my county is only 11%. So for parents desperately trying to protect their elderly, themselves, other sick people in the household, it is vital to vax their young ones.

[Melissa in Australia]

1 hour ago, ktgrok said:

Because when a fairly large portion of the population isn't vaccinated, you can't control the disease. And then those kids act as a vector infecting their parents. The vaccine works well, but when you are a parent caring for a sick child you have so much exposure that you get breakthrough infections. That's how my sister caught it. She has what may be permanent neurological complications (brain fog, ataxia, tremors, aphasia, and vomiting) and has worked only 3 hours (not all in one day) in over a month. Forget the ethics of it, we can't afford economically to have our workforce effected that way. 

22% of the U.S. population is under 12 yrs old. If you can only at MOST vaccinate 78% of the people, and let's be honest...it is less than that...then you can't get back to "normal". 

Here is is rapidly approaching over 95% first dose  for over 12 and 80% second dose 

[ktgrok]

29 minutes ago, Melissa in Australia said:

Here is is rapidly approaching over 95% first dose  for over 12 and 80% second dose 

Right, but even if you hit 100 percent for those over 12, that's still only 78% (here anyway) of total population. And those kids are in contact with a lot of adults. 

Edited October 27, 2021 by ktgrok

[bookbard]

304 cases for NSW and 1,534 for Vic - so again holding steady. 76% fully vaccinated in Vic, 85% for NSW (above age 16). Big disparity in areas though, with some areas only 50% vaccinated. And young people still dying - a 30 year man was one of three people who have died from covid in NSW in the last 24 hrs. 

Good news about boosters though, sounds like they'll be available to anyone who had any vaccine 6mths ago, from November. Which is good as police, healthcare etc were done back in April. 

[chocolate-chip chooky]

3 hours ago, bookbard said:

304 cases for NSW and 1,534 for Vic - so again holding steady. 76% fully vaccinated in Vic, 85% for NSW (above age 16). Big disparity in areas though, with some areas only 50% vaccinated. And young people still dying - a 30 year man was one of three people who have died from covid in NSW in the last 24 hrs. 

Good news about boosters though, sounds like they'll be available to anyone who had any vaccine 6mths ago, from November. Which is good as police, healthcare etc were done back in April. 

I'm so relieved that boosters are coming. One of my daughters was in phase 1b, so her six month mark is coming up. I was worried that her immunity would start waning just as more things start opening up.

[Melissa Louise]

1 hour ago, chocolate-chip chooky said:

I'm so relieved that boosters are coming. One of my daughters was in phase 1b, so her six month mark is coming up. I was worried that her immunity would start waning just as more things start opening up.

That's wonderful.

Our most vulnerable family member has a third dose appt lined up next week. Thank goodness. If I can get a six month booster in Dec, I'll really be happy. 

[prairiewindmomma]

https://www.kptv.com/general/immunocompromised-may-need-a-fourth-covid-19-shot-cdc-says/article_eca0d4e4-7341-5bf8-be71-b9707e23e72e.html?fbclid=IwAR1hX26Zygjt_0AyLes_1DP9f-NHfBm7WyOCkwHqXNReYvE7mt9AkrvVyZU

Just saw this. 

Article also notes that vaccinated immunocompromised persons were 485x more likely to end up hospitalized or die compared to most vaccinated persons.  Article reports 44% of breakthrough cases that end up hospitalized are of immunocompromised persons.  This is the first time I've seen numbers attached to those things.

updated CDC guidelines: https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/clinical-considerations/covid-19-vaccines-us.html#considerations-covid19-vax-immunocopromised  

[Ausmumof3]

Eek 25 deaths in Vic today.  1923 cases

293 cases in NSW, 2 deaths.

8 cases in ACT

 

[Dmmetler]

I am furious. The local county health department has dropped the mask mandate except for schools/daycare centers. Couldn't they hang on through the holiday season, by which point Parents who want to get their kids vaccinated should have had opportunity and enough time for them to be fully vaccinated. 

 

I'm not changing my policies, since parents signed up with a mandate in place (and most of my kids are under 12), and I have several kids with very high risk family members or that work with high risk people. 

 

 

[Ausmumof3]

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41423-021-00779-5
 

I can’t keep track of all the variants and I’m too tired to process this properly but i think this means immune evasion to some degree?

[Jean in Newcastle]

Answered my six month v-safe check-in questions.  And no, I haven't had any terrible things happen since getting the vaccine (after an initial autoimmune flare which I totally expected). 

Meanwhile I just heard again about a young person with long-covid who is having debilitating neurological issues after getting Covid.  Absolutely no preexisting conditions, previously very healthy 24 year old male.  Still able to hold a job but barely. 

[melmichigan]

16 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41423-021-00779-5
 

I can’t keep track of all the variants and I’m too tired to process this properly but i think this means immune evasion to some degree?

It actually argues in favor of mix and match vaccines. "Nevertheless, heterologous ChAdOx1 nCoV-19/BNT162b2 vaccination, which was previously shown to augment neutralizing antibody responses against VOCs compared to corresponding homologous vaccinations [7, 10], might offer robust protection against the A.30 variant."

Also "Collectively, our results suggest that the SARS-CoV-2 variant A.30 can evade control by vaccine-induced antibodies and might show an increased capacity to enter cells in a cathepsin L-dependent manner, which might particularly aid in the extrapulmonary spread." I haven't spent the time to decipher that part. 

Edited October 28, 2021 by melmichigan

[BeachGal]

19 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41423-021-00779-5
 

I can’t keep track of all the variants and I’m too tired to process this properly but i think this means immune evasion to some degree?

From what I’ve read, A.30 is being outcompeted by delta. It was last detected in May and has not been seen since then. It is not a variant of concern.

This paper discusses what they observed about it.

[Arcadia]

@Dmmetler@Not_a_Number

“FDA authorizes kid-size doses of Pfizer's COVID-19 vaccine for 5- to 11-year-olds. http://nbcbay.com/l1yzZYR”

ETA:

https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-authorizes-pfizer-biontech-covid-19-vaccine-emergency-use-children-5-through-11-years-age

Edited October 29, 2021 by Arcadia

[Ausmumof3]

1 minute ago, Arcadia said:

@Dmmetler@Not_a_Number

“FDA authorizes kid-size doses of Pfizer's COVID-19 vaccine for 5- to 11-year-olds. http://nbcbay.com/l1yzZYR”

Yay!  Hopefully it will follow here pretty soon then. 

[Arcadia]

1 minute ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Yay!  Hopefully it will follow here pretty soon then. 

The press release https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-authorizes-pfizer-biontech-covid-19-vaccine-emergency-use-children-5-through-11-years-age

[Ausmumof3]

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2785892?guestAccessKey=ba5a8e9f-82f2-42d4-add3-bdaedbb727c3&utm_source=silverchair&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=article_alert-jama&utm_content=olf&utm_term=102921
 

US related info- financial impact of Covid on patients and families

“It is a great testament to the fragmented US health care system that insurers, policy makers, and caregivers were able to mount a rapid response to help protect patients from financial toxicity from COVID-19. But these efforts were a stopgap measure, and despite threats of further surges in cases, Congress has a waning appetite for allocating additional emergency funds. Moreover, the long-term fiscal effects of COVID-19 are now emerging: 23% of patients hospitalized with COVID-19 in a national cohort reported having exhausted their savings after the hospitalization.⁶ Any new efforts to mitigate financial harm to patients should also consider what has been learned about disparate losses across the health care system. Insurers have reported record profits due to reductions in health care utilization; some large health systems did not experience anticipated losses and returned Provider Relief Funds back to the federal government. At the same time, primary care practices and smaller safety net clinicians and health care centers have struggled to take advantage of relief funds and to compete with larger institutions that pivoted quickly to alternative service models, such as telemedicine.”

[bookbard]

NSW under 200 - 177 cases, and VIC lower than I've seen in a while, 1,036 cases. They're weekend numbers though. Apparently Sydney-siders can go to the regions from tomorrow. Looks like it's still a while before there's free travel between NSW and VIC though. 

My kids going back to school tomorrow. There's only a handful of cases in our area, hoping none of them are school-aged kids. 

[Melissa in Australia]

About 1/3 vic is still without electricity after Friday’s windstorm. lots of testing places are closed. I would say that is why the numbers are down.

[popmom]

Very interesting—well thought out article on vaccine hesitancy. Written by Norman Doidge.
 

https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/science/articles/needle-points-vaccinations-chapter-one

https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/science/articles/needle-points-vaccinations-chapter-two

https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/science/articles/needle-points-vaccinations-chapter-three

https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/science/articles/needle-points-vaccinations-chapter-four

Edited October 31, 2021 by popmom

[Ausmumof3]

Bno

BREAKING: Deaths from COVID-19 pandemic reach 5 million

[Ausmumof3]

Globally both deaths and cases have starting trending up again.  Locally things are looking like they are trending down though I guess we have yet to see.

[whitestavern]

8 hours ago, popmom said:

Very interesting—well thought out article on vaccine hesitancy. Written by Norman Doidge.
 

https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/science/articles/needle-points-vaccinations-chapter-one

https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/science/articles/needle-points-vaccinations-chapter-two

https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/science/articles/needle-points-vaccinations-chapter-three

https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/science/articles/needle-points-vaccinations-chapter-four

That was an excellent article. Thank you for sharing. 

[Ausmumof3]

2nd dose done for older kids just one kid to worry about now!

 

[Ausmumof3]

135 cases 4 deaths for NSW

1471 cases and 4 deaths for Vic also.

[Melissa in Australia]

19 hours ago, popmom said:

Very interesting—well thought out article on vaccine hesitancy. Written by Norman Doidge.
 

https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/science/articles/needle-points-vaccinations-chapter-one

https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/science/articles/needle-points-vaccinations-chapter-two

https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/science/articles/needle-points-vaccinations-chapter-three

https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/science/articles/needle-points-vaccinations-chapter-four

Thank you very much. A very interesting read

[Corraleno]

20 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Globally both deaths and cases have starting trending up again.  Locally things are looking like they are trending down though I guess we have yet to see.

Cases and deaths have jumped significantly all across Europe, and are also heading up in S. Korea, Vietnam, Taiwan, and parts of Latin America. It makes me concerned about the upcoming holiday season, since it often seems that the trends we see in Europe show up in the US a few weeks later. So glad kids will be able to get vaxed soon and have full protection by Christmas.