Jump to content

Menu

wuhan - coronavirus


gardenmom5

Recommended Posts

Just now, KSera said:

That’s because the population was something like 96% vaccinated (not looking at the numbers right now), so there’s no comparison to see how many unvaccinated would have transmitted in the same circumstance. Certainly this shows that in this compromised population 5+ months from vaccination, they had a high rate of transmission and infection. But it doesn’t tell us anything about how that rate compares to the rates in similar unvaccinated patients. 

Absolutely. That's what makes this so very valuable information -- that the population involved was almost completely vaccinated. This is what we may be looking at in the US even if we were able to get to an absolutely (unattainable) 95%+ level of vaccination. I am absolutely not comparing this to what could happen with unvaccibated people. We have that now. This is maybe a possible glimpse into the future that the US is trying to go for. 

More study is needed, IMO, to be able to have an educated discussion on the future with Covid in this country & this world.

Separately, the US will have just as much trouble (or more) enforcing 3rd dose & booster uptake as initial vaccination. The very situation this data looked at is what the US is facing right now -- except with a much lower vaccination percentage. I.e., we need even more options than we currently have. I am glad there are still people studying new treatments. 

‐---

"Although [mask] use was inconsistent, it was enforced during patient–staff encounters for both sides. On the dedicated COVID-19 ward, dedicated staff members worked with full personal protective equipment (PPE): N-95 mask, face shield, gown, gloves and hair cover."

This seems to imply that our current highest level of precautions may not be enough.

From a behavior-level standpoint, proper, consistent, inexpensive, large-scale n-95 usage will likely not to be achievable in the population as a whole. Real world conditions and not ideal hopes need to be discussed by the epidemiologists moving forward. A sobering and eye-opening data set but not by itself enough to panic or base change on, IMO.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here’s our Covid story of the week.

Dh was in a room with a client for an hour on Monday. Both were vaccinated and neither were wearing masks. Dh does have an air purifier, hepa filter, which he runs when he’s in the room, and he may well have had the window open. The client tested positive the next day, I believe was symptomatic that next day. My dh has so far not developed any symptoms, and got tested on day 4 and was negative. He’s been working from home since just in case. He had the Moderna vax, not sure which one the client had.

  • Like 18
Link to comment
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

NSW now to be lead by a corrupt, incompetent right wing Opus Dei 'let it rip' Premier. 

 

Yeah I felt physically sick finding that out. However, maybe it'll be so clear how bad he is that they'll lose the next election? Or he'll get backstabbed by one of his mates and finally kicked out of parliament? There's always hope - Abbott didn't last very long, did he?

In the short term, though, when it comes to this kind of politics, I turn and focus on my local grassroots community. We can really make a big difference at that level. I just heard this week that a pregnant woman got her double vax - this was after I chatted to her seriously about the risks of covid, when he husband was feeding her covid conspiracies. And now she's persuaded him to get done too. 

  • Like 9
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, bookbard said:

Yeah I felt physically sick finding that out. However, maybe it'll be so clear how bad he is that they'll lose the next election? Or he'll get backstabbed by one of his mates and finally kicked out of parliament? There's always hope - Abbott didn't last very long, did he?

In the short term, though, when it comes to this kind of politics, I turn and focus on my local grassroots community. We can really make a big difference at that level. I just heard this week that a pregnant woman got her double vax - this was after I chatted to her seriously about the risks of covid, when he husband was feeding her covid conspiracies. And now she's persuaded him to get done too. 

We don't go to the polls for a long time. I'm worried about Covid but also about years without assisted dying legislation. Plus Warragamba. Hospitals, mental health.. It's a really bad outcome for the state. 

Glad you were able to help get someone vulnerable vaccinated.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

We don't go to the polls for a long time. I'm worried about Covid but also about years without assisted dying legislation. Plus Warragamba. Hospitals, mental health.. It's a really bad outcome for the state. 

Sorry, I didn't mean to brush over the impact of this - you're right, it's a disaster on so many levels.

2 minutes ago, lewelma said:

Looking bad. Covid has slipped out of Auckland into a small town nearby, and now a taxi driver in Auckland has tested positive. Announcement in a few hours. 

Sorry to hear this - so hard!

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, TCB said:

If the conditions are anything like what I see, then I don’t think you can really draw reliable conclusions, unless they observed every interaction carefully. Patients very rarely wear masks and often wear them incorrectly if they wear them. The people at work, that I know,  who have become infected with Covid, have caught it from fellow staff members, not patients, and their mask wearing is not reliable.

I don’t know how anyone can come to hard and fast conclusions about mask wearing being effective, unless they are conclusions about the effectiveness of improper mask wearing. So many people do not wear them properly.

My experience is the same.

 

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

NSW 623 and 6 deaths

VIC 1377 and 4 deaths

ACT 28 and 2 deaths

QLD 1 unlinked mystery case.  I saw video of the NRL grand final last night and I hope they get away with it because there was serious crowding.

Our regional border bubble case may in fact have more contacts than initially disclosed so things might get messy.  I suspect things are worse in Vic than the case numbers show because we’re getting so many spillover cases.

We are getting great vax rates now though.  I just wish someone would start talking about boosters 😞
 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

https://ozsage.org/media_releases/ozsage-advice-a-stronger-safer-nsw-reopening-plan-to-avoid-lockdowns/
 

Advice from OzSAGE on a safer reopening.

Still working my way through it but these bits stand out.

The period around February 2022 is also important, as waning of vaccine-induced immunity is expected to be apparent by then for people vaccinated around August 2021 (the peak of vaccine uptake in NSW).

For health workers vaccinated in March, waning is already occurring and fully vaccinated health workers have been infected. In Israel, in a 96% Pfizer vaccinated group of health workers and patients, a large hospital outbreakoccurred at about the six-month mark after vaccination.

Layered, combined protections such as safe indoor air, testing, tracing and mask wearing will provide a much greater chance of safer and sustainable re-opening until we await the promise of second generation and Delta-matched vaccines, boosters and smarter vaccine strategies.

 

and

3. Make indoor air safer

NSW needs an indoor ventilation plan, because the SARS-CoV-2 virus is airborne. The plan should ensure homes, schools, businesses, and other public venues have safe indoor air, and that the community is as well informed on safe air as it is on handwashing, so that people and businesses are empowered to mitigate risk in their own settings.

and

The Doherty report estimates 276,000 Australian children will be infected in the first six months after reopening in the most likely scenario, with 2,400 hospitalisations, 206 ICU admissions and 57 child deaths in that time – but assumed no vaccination in this group. If all children 12 and over are vaccinated, these estimates would be lower, but still significant and important to prevent.

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

41 minutes ago, SKL said:

They didn't have more warning for Delta.

Delta hit overseas first and we had a lot of lead time that it would end up here and predictions of how many weeks we had once it arrived before it would predominate. More warning would only make a difference for places that took precautions as a result. For much of the south, they didn’t change anything in attempt to reduce the death toll from delta. 

  • Like 13
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, SKL said:

They didn't have more warning for Delta.

Except India and to a lesser extent the UK, Europe and other parts of the world. But we’re not so great at remembering that there actually are other places in the world, never mind paying attention to what’s going on in them.

  • Like 12
Link to comment
Share on other sites

So, I live in a metro area with 19 hospitals. Those 19 hospitals are divided into different regions: central, eastern, south, western, and north. Of all of those hospitals this weekend, all of the emergency rooms were on divert except two: a children's hospital (which had been diverting all week to a different children's hospital, I hear), and the VA/Veteran's hospital.  Both of those hospitals were in one region. The other four regions were all completely closed.

My understanding is that when everyone in a region is full, they still rotate who takes on patients....but for a long time my region of the metro had been full and sending patients to different hospitals in their feeder system with larger bed capacities. 

It's a (insert colorful word) mess. Mobile morgues in the parking lots. Hospitals on the coast where they can't send patients at all and they are dying because they don't have access to the better equipment. National guard doing administrative things. Many of the patients in our metro hospitals aren't local--they are being shipped in from rural, unvaccinated areas but this is affecting us all. 97% of those in the ICU at the hospital I would choose to go if I fell ill are unvaccinated covid patients.  I'm feeling a bit of compassion fatigue.

 

  • Sad 16
Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

97% of those in the ICU at the hospital I would choose to go if I fell ill are unvaccinated covid patients.  I'm feeling a bit of compassion fatigue.

 

I think that part of the issue is that most of these people don't want our compassion.  They think that we are stupid for wanting them to change their behavior.  They think that we are stupid for not wanting them to get sick.  And stupid for not wanting them to take unproven meds. 

  • Like 11
  • Thanks 1
  • Sad 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

58 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

I think that part of the issue is that most of these people don't want our compassion.  They think that we are stupid for wanting them to change their behavior.  They think that we are stupid for not wanting them to get sick.  And stupid for not wanting them to take unproven meds. 

True, but they are also latched onto the idea that the vaccinated want them dead or are happy to "thin the herd." They feel the vaccinated want to exclude them from society entirely. It's all mish-mashed together in their thinking. 

They have harsh words for people who's compassion fatigue makes them leak out gallows humor or even expressions of frustration. They seize on it as proof that the vaccinated are out to persecute them.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, prairiewindmomma said:

So, I live in a metro area with 19 hospitals. Those 19 hospitals are divided into different regions: central, eastern, south, western, and north. Of all of those hospitals this weekend, all of the emergency rooms were on divert except two: a children's hospital (which had been diverting all week to a different children's hospital, I hear), and the VA/Veteran's hospital.  Both of those hospitals were in one region. The other four regions were all completely closed.

My understanding is that when everyone in a region is full, they still rotate who takes on patients....but for a long time my region of the metro had been full and sending patients to different hospitals in their feeder system with larger bed capacities. 

It's a (insert colorful word) mess. Mobile morgues in the parking lots. Hospitals on the coast where they can't send patients at all and they are dying because they don't have access to the better equipment. National guard doing administrative things. Many of the patients in our metro hospitals aren't local--they are being shipped in from rural, unvaccinated areas but this is affecting us all. 97% of those in the ICU at the hospital I would choose to go if I fell ill are unvaccinated covid patients.  I'm feeling a bit of compassion fatigue.

 

This. The compassion has run out while a dear college friend of ds's in the ER 24 hrs now for a threatening to rupture hernia, in horrific pain, and has yet to be seen because assholes think they get to overwhelm hospitals. 98.8% unvaccinated people according to that county's medical health director. Add the RSV that is going around, and it is an apocalypse out there!

Done. Very, very done. After all the horrific rhetoric out of the let her rip crowd including being told by the local pastor's wife that my grandson is expendable because he has a pre-existing condition, and I will no longer give an ounce of mercy or grace to that crowd. I weep for the innocent children  hurt by their parents' malignant narcissism, but have nothing for the adults espousing this crap.

  • Sad 10
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, ktgrok said:

oh no! Do they know how it got out?

They are not sure yet, but they are doing the genome testing now. 

Governments has changed tacks slightly. They are going for the aggressive stamp it out, but they are no longer expecting that they can get back to zero. Looks like it is a race between vaccines and the spread if they want to avoid keeping Auckland in lockdown, but they have been very clear that this is NOT a let it rip policy. It will continue to be an aggressive stamp it out approach. There was such a big push on vaccines a month ago, that all the second doses are coming up in the next 2 weeks, so our double vaccinated numbers should soar to about 78%. Then it is the long, hard fight to get the hesitant vaccinated, and the government is announcing its carrot and stick approach today. We are still at about 20 in the hospital nationwide and no deaths in 15 months.

  • Like 8
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, kbutton said:

True, but they are also latched onto the idea that the vaccinated want them dead or are happy to "thin the herd." They feel the vaccinated want to exclude them from society entirely. It's all mish-mashed together in their thinking. 

They have harsh words for people who's compassion fatigue makes them leak out gallows humor or even expressions of frustration. They seize on it as proof that the vaccinated are out to persecute them.

That’s not even logical. (And I know you aren’t saying this yourself).  If they are not in danger (like many of them claim) then we can’t somehow make them dead even if there was some terrible person who actually wished that (no one I know). 
 

On wanting to exclude them from society then yeah. If you don’t take basic cautions against contagion disease then that’s their consequence that they freely chose. (Usual disclaimer about this not being about those with legitimate medical exemptions. Those of us in that category have always known that we have to monitor and mitigate our exposure to society). 

  • Like 7
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, lewelma said:

They are not sure yet, but they are doing the genome testing now. 

Governments has changed tacks slightly. They are going for the aggressive stamp it out, but they are no longer expecting that they can get back to zero. Looks like it is a race between vaccines and the spread if they want to avoid keeping Auckland in lockdown, but they have been very clear that this is NOT a let it rip policy. It will continue to be an aggressive stamp it out approach. There was such a big push on vaccines a month ago, that all the second doses are coming up in the next 2 weeks, so our double vaccinated numbers should soar to about 78%. Then it is the long, hard fight to get the hesitant vaccinated, and the government is announcing its carrot and stick approach today. We are still at about 20 in the hospital nationwide and no deaths in 15 months.

I hope the carrots and sticks work! Single vaccination just isn't working for Delta, but having everyone recently double vaccinated should! Is that percentage you are hoping for of the total population, or a certain age group?

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

That’s not even logical. (And I know you aren’t saying this yourself).  If they are not in danger (like many of them claim) then we can’t somehow make them dead even if there was some terrible person who actually wished that (no one I know). 
 

On wanting to exclude them from society then yeah. If you don’t take basic cautions against contagion disease then that’s their consequence that they freely chose. (Usual disclaimer about this not being about those with legitimate medical exemptions. Those of us in that category have always known that we have to monitor and mitigate our exposure to society). 

Oh, none of them make sense around here. It's wild. Someone posted a video saying lots of nutso stuff, but the person recording the video claimed her husband went to the hospital with regular pneumonia, and the hospital turned it into Covid pneumonia by taking all the tests for flu, etc. and turning them all into Covid tests. 

On the same thread (a friend's FB page), another person tore into a reference to the AMA's survey that showed that a high rate of doctors are vaxed as if it was a flawed study because not everyone is in the AMA, not everyone responded, there is no incentive for unvaccinated doctors to respond, etc. and got into really deep weeds in the way that people on here would tear apart an actual flawed scientific journal article. There was no sense of proportion that surveys are...surveys. There was no reasoning with this person that a survey can be treated like a survey--take it or leave it if you feel like it wasn't representative enough for your own needs, but it's not the same as a double-blind study that someone manipulated on purpose, lol. Another person on that same thread said posting the reference to the survey at all was an ad hominem attack (the point being made was that it's less educated healthcare workers that were unvaccinated). 

The people on that thread wanted compassion for their POV (they are persecuted for understanding the truth), but not for being vulnerable to Covid. 

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

43 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

I hope the carrots and sticks work! Single vaccination just isn't working for Delta, but having everyone recently double vaccinated should! Is that percentage you are hoping for of the total population, or a certain age group?

The goal is 90% for 12+ people. We are currently at 83% in Auckland and 76% everywhere else for first doses (more like 46% for second doses). But because we only ramped up vaccination one month ago when we finally got supply, they are assuming all the first dose people will get their second doses in the next 2 weeks (we have a recommended 6 week gap). It is the last 10% that they are fighting for. They want 90%+ nationwide and distributed equally between localities and ethnicities, and all political parties and tribes and churches are pushing the same thing.

They have announced that only vaccinated people will be allowed to enter NZ when we open up in January.. 

Edited by lewelma
  • Like 10
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1,763 cases and four deaths today for Vic.  Still escalating.

we had yet another truck driver case yesterday. The border town has gone into semi lockdown while the health department figures out what’s going on as the lady with Covid apparently wasn’t revealing all her contacts.  I guess that means we’re still aiming to keep it out it possible which is reassuring.

  • Sad 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, lewelma said:

They are not sure yet, but they are doing the genome testing now. 

Governments has changed tacks slightly. They are going for the aggressive stamp it out, but they are no longer expecting that they can get back to zero. Looks like it is a race between vaccines and the spread if they want to avoid keeping Auckland in lockdown, but they have been very clear that this is NOT a let it rip policy. It will continue to be an aggressive stamp it out approach. There was such a big push on vaccines a month ago, that all the second doses are coming up in the next 2 weeks, so our double vaccinated numbers should soar to about 78%. Then it is the long, hard fight to get the hesitant vaccinated, and the government is announcing its carrot and stick approach today. We are still at about 20 in the hospital nationwide and no deaths in 15 months.

Media here reported that  in Auckland organised criminals, who are wary of people in authority accidently spread it as they were reluctant to get tested. 

No idea if this is true or not

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanmic/article/PIIS2666-5247(21)00219-6/fulltext
 

“Reinfection by SARS-CoV-2 under endemic conditions would likely occur between 3 and 63 months after peak antibody response, with a median of 16 months. This protection is of less than half the duration revealed for the endemic coronaviruses circulating among humans.
Our estimated times to reinfection are consistent with the low numbers of validated cases of reinfection. However, our results caution that reinfection will become increasingly common as pandemic disease transitions into endemic disease. “
 
Obviously it’s very early in the piece to know for sure and there’s a lot of limitations with a study like this.
 
 
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, lewelma said:

There was such a big push on vaccines a month ago, that all the second doses are coming up in the next 2 weeks, so our double vaccinated numbers should soar to about 78%. Then it is the long, hard fight to get the hesitant vaccinated, and the government is announcing its carrot and stick approach today. We are still at about 20 in the hospital nationwide and no deaths in 15 months.

It is so much better than Singapore’s numbers:

4,509,533 completed full vaccination program (approximately 76%),

8 deaths (October 4th), 40 deaths (September),

2,475 new cases (October 4th)

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Melissa in Australia said:

Media here reported that  in Auckland organised criminals, who are wary of people in authority accidently spread it as they were reluctant to get tested. 

No idea if this is true or not

It did get into a gang. But the PM and the Director of Public Health stated at their 1pm briefing a couple of days ago that the gang had been cooperating. And then it has never been mentioned again. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok, first stick has been announced. Starting in November people must have an electronic certificate to prove double vaccination to enter any large scale events, and possibly/likely all hospitality venues (bars, restaurants etc, they are still deciding the details).  They will not be required for essential services like grocery stores, chemists, doctors.  So Jacinda said that if you are planning on any summer festivals, you need to get vaccinated now, because it will be 8 weeks until your certificate will be valid (6 weeks between doses plus 2 weeks after 2nd dose) and summer is around the corner. We have a single public health database, so there will be a barcode on either your phone or your printed form that will be confirmed at the entrance. So not really an easy way to forge your certificate. For people without phones, their doctor/pharmacist can print the document.

  • Like 8
Link to comment
Share on other sites

One more thought on the compassion thing:  I don’t think that most people want compassion as such for their POV. They might want agreement. Or capitulation. Or perhaps tolerance. 
 

I can do tolerance to a point. If everyone in a public area is masked (as they are in my area of my state) I don’t really care if they like masking or not. Or what their views are. Or even their vaccination status. I am protected on a couple of different levels and I am not going to be getting up close and personal. I know that many of you are in unmasked areas though. I guess my self protection if I lived in an area like that would be a lot more isolated because I do rely a bit on everyone being masked. 
 

I don’t feel like it’s my mission in life to convince anyone to vaccinate. I have honestly answered questions when asked my opinion. I have quietly made it clear that my non-profit is abiding by all Covid rules. I know that some of my volunteers aren’t vaccinated. I don’t encourage grumbling but I don’t make an issue of it either. I just outline what is expected (vaccination or negative Covid tests in order to participate). If they gripe (which is rare) I tell them to knock it off. 
 

I am against abuse towards anyone- pro or anti. That’s not how God wants me to treat people. Fortunately no one has been abusive towards me in this matter. I am very fortunate that even those who disagree with me on Covid are still kind people. They assume more risk by not being vaccinated but I guess that’s on them at this point. (And I think that they would agree that it’s on them.). I don’t know anyone who is extremely anti though. 

  • Like 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, prairiewindmomma said:

It's a (insert colorful word) mess. Mobile morgues in the parking lots. Hospitals on the coast where they can't send patients at all and they are dying because they don't have access to the better equipment. National guard doing administrative things. Many of the patients in our metro hospitals aren't local--they are being shipped in from rural, unvaccinated areas but this is affecting us all. 97% of those in the ICU at the hospital I would choose to go if I fell ill are unvaccinated covid patients.  I'm feeling a bit of compassion fatigue.

 

This is probably currently the aspect that makes me the most angry. I don't know what justification people can give for this being okay when they argue that being vaccinated or not should just be everyone's choice and no one else should care. Can any of our anti-vax or at least pro-choice vax posters shed light on that? How is this not a everybody's problem that a minority of people are making this choice with such serious repercussions for everyone else?

2 hours ago, lewelma said:

 So Jacinda said that if you are planning on any summer festivals, you need to get vaccinated now, because it will be 8 weeks until your certificate will be valid (6 weeks between doses plus 2 weeks after 2nd dose)

I had missed that NZ was doing 6 weeks between doses. Is this all/mostly Pfizer? It will be interesting to see if you have longer lasting protection that way. I'm still hopeful that UK will experience that with so many having the longer interval.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, KSera said:

I had missed that NZ was doing 6 weeks between doses. Is this all/mostly Pfizer? It will be interesting to see if you have longer lasting protection that way. I'm still hopeful that UK will experience that with so many having the longer interval.

Yep. For Pfizer. My understanding is that the UK was desperate earlier this year, so extended the Pfizer dose out to give more people first doses, and then they found that it was more effective than 3 weeks. So since NZ is running behind, we are using all the knowledge learned from overseas to do the most scientifically sound policy. So 6 weeks gap for us.

Edited by lewelma
  • Like 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, KSera said:

This is probably currently the aspect that makes me the most angry. I don't know what justification people can give for this being okay when they argue that being vaccinated or not should just be everyone's choice and no one else should care. Can any of our anti-vax or at least pro-choice vax posters shed light on that? How is this not a everybody's problem that a minority of people are making this choice with such serious repercussions for everyone else?

"It isn't me" causing the problem? The over-crowding of hospitals is a complicated, multi-faceted issue.

Most people I know who have chosen not to receive the vax believe they will have a mild case. Actually, the majority of people I know IRL have had it (once or twice) and have had what is referred to as a mild case (even if they were pretty sick) because none had to seek doctor or hospital help. So, realistically, those people are correct in their own interpretation. But, obviously, there is still an issue of full hospital ICUs. Why?

Hospitals running lean on staffing to maximize profits all these years. Not having robust HCW training programs all these years. Those are contributors. Obviously compassion fatigue, pay bonuses for traveling nurses, and firing staff for not vaccinating now causing worse staffing issues in certain places.

Separately, is the current and upcoming supply chain issue totally a covid-caused one? Or did it provide a major contributing cause to highlight what was already a strained system? I would argue the latter and that we've known for years about it & done nothing to beef up the system. Same with sourcing our medicine & PPE overseas. Are we going to do what we should (IMO) to fix the situation long-term? Or just point fingers, bellyache, and bandaid the problem? These are complicated issues that have multiple solutions. They are an everybody problem. But the solutions involve a bigger group than I think you highlighted. Things run smoothly until there is a hiccup, or in this case, a pile-up. 

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, RootAnn said:

"It isn't me" causing the problem? The over-crowding of hospitals is a complicated, multi-faceted issue.

Most people I know who have chosen not to receive the vax believe they will have a mild case. Actually, the majority of people I know IRL have had it (once or twice) and have had what is referred to as a mild case (even if they were pretty sick) because none had to seek doctor or hospital help. So, realistically, those people are correct in their own interpretation. But, obviously, there is still an issue of full hospital ICUs. Why?

It may well be a mild case for them but who are they passing it on to? There are many problems within the health care system but Covid is a big one. Things have calmed down quite a bit here right now, but still at least 1/2 the patients in ICU are Covid patients. They are really sick and take a huge amount of resources. If we did not have the Covid patients, which would put numbers more like they usually are for us at this time of year, things would be way more manageable. There is no way to honestly deny that it isn’t a huge issue in a lot of places. I would love to go back to the days when I didn’t get multiple texts most  days begging for people to help out at work.

  • Like 6
  • Sad 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, TCB said:

It may well be a mild case for them but who are they passing it on to? 

They are really sick and take a huge amount of resources. ... There is no way to honestly deny that it isn’t a huge issue in a lot of places.

Usually, they pass it onto their kids and/spouse and sometimes people at work.

Absolutely no denying the hospital overload, that a certain amount of people get really sick, and some die. The data is unavoidable.

I was trying to provide one perspective requested. I am not anti-vaccination. I am anti-governmemt over-reach.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, lewelma said:

Yep. For Pfizer. My understanding is that the UK was desperate earlier this year, so extended the Pfizer dose out to give more people first doses, and then they found that it was more effective than 3 weeks. So since NZ is running behind, we are using all the knowledge learned from overseas to do the most scientifically sound policy. So 6 weeks gap for us.

I've been thinking I will probably try to space out the doses for my younger kids, if I can. If we are in a bad place with case numbers at the time and I don't feel confident in being able to shield them from being exposed, I'll do it on the shorter interval, but given current data, giving a few more weeks between doses is looking like a good idea.

7 hours ago, RootAnn said:

"It isn't me" causing the problem? The over-crowding of hospitals is a complicated, multi-faceted issue.

Most people I know who have chosen not to receive the vax believe they will have a mild case. Actually, the majority of people I know IRL have had it (once or twice) and have had what is referred to as a mild case (even if they were pretty sick) because none had to seek doctor or hospital help. So, realistically, those people are correct in their own interpretation. But, obviously, there is still an issue of full hospital ICUs. Why?

Hospitals running lean on staffing to maximize profits all these years. Not having robust HCW training programs all these years. Those are contributors. Obviously compassion fatigue, pay bonuses for traveling nurses, and firing staff for not vaccinating now causing worse staffing issues in certain places.

Separately, is the current and upcoming supply chain issue totally a covid-caused one? Or did it provide a major contributing cause to highlight what was already a strained system? I would argue the latter and that we've known for years about it & done nothing to beef up the system. Same with sourcing our medicine & PPE overseas. Are we going to do what we should (IMO) to fix the situation long-term? Or just point fingers, bellyache, and bandaid the problem? These are complicated issues that have multiple solutions. They are an everybody problem. But the solutions involve a bigger group than I think you highlighted. Things run smoothly until there is a hiccup, or in this case, a pile-up. 

These are all issues, but clearly right now, everyone who can get vaccinated doing so would cause us not to be in the crisis the hospitals are in right now. Never before have we had this many hospitals all over the country so full all at the same time, rationing care, cancelling so many procedures that really aren't "elective" in the way that we think of them, turning away people who die as a result. And the reason this is happening all over right now is because of the large numbers of people hospitalized for covid. Yes, we need to fix this stuff long term, but that's not a reason to accept this preventable situation right now.

  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

37 minutes ago, RootAnn said:

Usually, they pass it onto their kids and/spouse and sometimes people at work.

Absolutely no denying the hospital overload, that a certain amount of people get really sick, and some die. The data is unavoidable.

I was trying to provide one perspective requested. I am not anti-vaccination. I am anti-governmemt over-reach.

And their kids are passing it on to their classmates, their spouse is passing it on at work, as are the co-workers. One mild case can cause a lot of other cases, and eventually it won't be so mild. 

 

This is why vaccination, and until vax numbers increase by a lot, vaccination plus masking plus testing is so important. 

  • Like 7
  • Thanks 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I never finished updating yesterday was a kind of hectic day and now I can’t find the numbers.  Nsw was somewhere in the 600s I think. 

Today cases from Vic are 1420 and 11 deaths.  Apparently hospitalisation percentages are down on last years mostly due to vaccination so that’s a slim positive.  There’s some ambulance ramping though.

The woman who tested positive in the border town here has been moved to quarantine.  Someone set a car alight in her driveway last night.  Thankfully all her kids are also in quarantine with her.  The health department is very guarded about what they’ll say because contact tracing is meant to be confidential but there seems likely criminal links of some kind. (She likely made a trip to Melbourne and is not being open about here movements etc). Kind of a crazy situation though.

“SA Police Commissioner Grant Stevens said he understood the car belonged to the woman who had tested positive to COVID-19 . 

"People shouldn't assume that they know what's going on," he said.

"It's completely unnecessary, it's unwarranted they have committed a serious crime and if we do detect them then we will be dealing with them appropriately.

"I'm just asking people to show tolerance. We don't know exactly what's gone on. Let us get to the bottom of this and we'll provide that information to the community as quickly as possible."

 

  • Sad 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, RootAnn said:

Usually, they pass it onto their kids and/spouse and sometimes people at work.

Absolutely no denying the hospital overload, that a certain amount of people get really sick, and some die. The data is unavoidable.

I was trying to provide one perspective requested. I am not anti-vaccination. I am anti-governmemt over-reach.

I know you aren’t anti-vax. I don’t really think the answer is making people get vaccinated against their will. I was really commenting that, even without a huge surge, Covid is still really disrupting hospitals. Also these people aren’t aware of how far the spread goes from them and the effect it has. 

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...