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gardenmom5

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8 hours ago, Laura Corin said:

 You could be asymptomatic. 

It just seems backwards for kids to show symptoms and adults to not. 

 

AusMom- They were vaccinated in June and July. Youngest may have gotten his shot early August but he is well past the post two week period. I and DH were vaccinated in March. Then again only one sick child supposedly has it. One of the tests could simply be wrong, either the positive or negative. 

 

Soooooo thankful my husband can work from home and we can continue on with school! 

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9 hours ago, lewelma said:

Down to 12 today (9 were household contacts), and we just scored 250,000 doses from Spain. 

It's fantastic to see how NZ is doing with this!  Hoping the numbers keep going down and down and you start having some zero days soon. And that you get enough vaccine to get everyone done as quickly, since everyone is so willing there. Would be a great reward to your country for staying the course and everyone working together.

59 minutes ago, frogger said:

 

AusMom- They were vaccinated in June and July. Youngest may have gotten his shot early August but he is well past the post two week period. I and DH were vaccinated in March. Then again only one sick child supposedly has it. One of the tests could simply be wrong, either the positive or negative. 

 

I'm assuming your kids got Pfizer. What did you and your DH have? I would test 4-5 days after your kids got sick.

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5 minutes ago, KSera said:

 

It's fantastic to see how NZ is doing with this!  Hoping the numbers keep going down and down and you start having some zero days soon. And that you get enough vaccine to get everyone done as quickly, since everyone is so willing there. Would be a great reward to your country for staying the course and everyone working together.

I'm assuming your kids got Pfizer. What did you and your DH have? I would test 4-5 days after your kids got sick.

We all received Pfizer. 

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3 hours ago, frogger said:

It just seems backwards for kids to show symptoms and adults to not. 

 

AusMom- They were vaccinated in June and July. Youngest may have gotten his shot early August but he is well past the post two week period. I and DH were vaccinated in March. Then again only one sick child supposedly has it. One of the tests could simply be wrong, either the positive or negative. 

 

Soooooo thankful my husband can work from home and we can continue on with school! 

Ah yeah won’t be that then. 

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28 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

Air con isn't the same thing Adair filtering, is it? All out classrooms getting air con in the next few weeks - but that's not ventilation, is it? 

It depends where the air is drawn from. If it’s all recirculated, that doesn’t help. If it’s venting the old air and pulling in new outside air, that’s very good. If it has a hepa filter, that’s extremely helpful as well. 

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9 minutes ago, KSera said:

It depends where the air is drawn from. If it’s all recirculated, that doesn’t help. If it’s venting the old air and pulling in new outside air, that’s very good. If it has a hepa filter, that’s extremely helpful as well. 

I guess I am going to have to ask.

I really wish exec was on top of communicating this to us. Safety shouldn't be a bottom up proposition. 

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16 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

I guess I am going to have to ask.

I really wish exec was on top of communicating this to us. Safety shouldn't be a bottom up proposition. 

Since they are putting in new AC, I would feel optimistic.  I would think new systems are all built with the ability to draw in outside air (I’m not certain that is true though) which means (if so) it’s just a matter of making sure they are using the settings with maximum outside air intake. Our local schools are doing it that way to achieve sufficient air changes per hour. 

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1542 cases for NSW and 9 deaths.  Paramedics say rbe workload has doubled in the last two weeks.

Gladys comment of the day on discontinuing press conferences. Normalise what?  Several hundred ongoing hospitalisations and a few deaths every day?

"I can assure the people of this state and they can judge me on my record, whenever I need to speak directly to the public, I absolutely will, but we also have to make sure that as a government, we normalise the way we do things every day," she says.

"I am always accountable [to the] public as the ministry is but we also have to accept all of us have to start thinking about what living with COVID means.

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ACT had 24 cases.  They seem to continually bounce up and down all over the place but thankfully not growing steadily.

Vic - 334 cases.

QLD - 1 unknown origin community case that resulted in a school being closed.

We still seem to be on the 70pc vaccinated road even though evidence from overseas is that that’s not enough.

I’ve heard appointments may be opening for vaccine for 12-16 from Monday.

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19 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

1542 cases for NSW and 9 deaths.  Paramedics say rbe workload has doubled in the last two weeks.

Gladys comment of the day on discontinuing press conferences. Normalise what?  Several hundred ongoing hospitalisations and a few deaths every day?

"I can assure the people of this state and they can judge me on my record, whenever I need to speak directly to the public, I absolutely will, but we also have to make sure that as a government, we normalise the way we do things every day," she says.

"I am always accountable [to the] public as the ministry is but we also have to accept all of us have to start thinking about what living with COVID means.

I'm just appalled at this government. Even more than usual. **** off Gladys.

I'm so stressed and upset about how the opening is being handled. 

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21 hours ago, Melissa Louise said:

Freaking out, y'all. 

So. Many. Ambulances. 

 

I'm so sorry. At the beginning of the lockdown (such a long time ago!) that is all we heard day after day since we live near one of the many hospitals in Boston. It was so depressing. 

Australia is in my prayers - my husband continues to work with your governments to try to help y'all.

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I feel kind of yucky posting this given what Aus is experiencing, but NZ is down to 11 cases today with 10 already in MIQ because they were household contacts, and only 1 positive person who was in the community. All waste water is clear, and testing numbers are high. We appear to be in the long tail. They are still tracking 38000 contacts who are being contacted daily by the now 1700 contact tracers. Very close contacts are either in MIQ or having all food/supplies delivered by government services so they don't have to leave their home. It looks like they've actually conquered this outbreak. I'm very impressed. We have had 860 cases, and they are down to 1 in the community. Just Wow. 

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43 minutes ago, lewelma said:

I feel kind of yucky posting this given what Aus is experiencing, but NZ is down to 11 cases today with 10 already in MIQ because they were household contacts, and only 1 positive person who was in the community. 

That's fantastic - don't feel bad about posting it! I always feel vindicated reading that, and knowing so many people over there are safe and not having to go through what we are going through. 

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9 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

1542 cases for NSW and 9 deaths.  Paramedics say rbe workload has doubled in the last two weeks.

Gladys comment of the day on discontinuing press conferences. Normalise what?  Several hundred ongoing hospitalisations and a few deaths every day?

"I can assure the people of this state and they can judge me on my record, whenever I need to speak directly to the public, I absolutely will, but we also have to make sure that as a government, we normalise the way we do things every day," she says.

"Normalisation" means keeping things the same. People have got used to the conferences, taking them out is the opposite of normalisation.

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8 hours ago, lewelma said:

I feel kind of yucky posting this given what Aus is experiencing, but NZ is down to 11 cases today with 10 already in MIQ because they were household contacts, and only 1 positive person who was in the community. All waste water is clear, and testing numbers are high. We appear to be in the long tail. They are still tracking 38000 contacts who are being contacted daily by the now 1700 contact tracers. Very close contacts are either in MIQ or having all food/supplies delivered by government services so they don't have to leave their home. It looks like they've actually conquered this outbreak. I'm very impressed. We have had 860 cases, and they are down to 1 in the community. Just Wow. 

Fabulous.  I hear you on having a bit of survivor guilt down in SA as well but honestly just happy to know it’s doable if you do it the right way.  Also happy for my NZ rellies.

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8 hours ago, lewelma said:

I feel kind of yucky posting this given what Aus is experiencing, but NZ is down to 11 cases today with 10 already in MIQ because they were household contacts, and only 1 positive person who was in the community. All waste water is clear, and testing numbers are high. We appear to be in the long tail. They are still tracking 38000 contacts who are being contacted daily by the now 1700 contact tracers. Very close contacts are either in MIQ or having all food/supplies delivered by government services so they don't have to leave their home. It looks like they've actually conquered this outbreak. I'm very impressed. We have had 860 cases, and they are down to 1 in the community. Just Wow. 

No, don't feel yucky!  I'm enjoying rooting for you all!  (No chance here: said from MNE which is amongst the worst in Europe.  😞 )

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Kinda depressing all round numbers wise here today.

We have one new local case in my state from a fifo worker.  I think the only potential exposure is the flight because they had to quarantine on arrival anyway.

Qld had 5 cases source unknown but probably a new spillover from NSW.

Vic up to 450 🙁, 143 hospitalised, 34 in ICU

NSW still increasing at 1599. 8 deaths.

ACT 15 cases.

Looks like NZ was also slightly higher at 23 with 14 linked though @lewelmaprobably has better info. 
 

Pfizer is being made available to everyone over twelve including over 60s in SA as of Monday.

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45 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

 

Looks like NZ was also slightly higher at 23 with 14 linked though @lewelmaprobably has better info. 

They have said that there will be ups and downs here in the tail, and that these higher numbers were due to the day 5 and day 12 tests that were required from past locations of interest (5 and 12 days ago obviously). However, most of the people were identified a long time ago as close contacts and required to isolate until after a negative result from the day 12 test, so were not wandering around in the community. But keep in mind that Auckland is at level 4 lockdown, so even if some of these positive cases were in the community, they would have limited interaction with people (grocery store, chemist, medical care, and that's it) and all of them masked as is now required by law. No press conference today or tomorrow, so we will know more on Monday when they will also decide on Auckland's fate. . 

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2 hours ago, lewelma said:

They have said that there will be ups and downs here in the tail, and that these higher numbers were due to the day 5 and day 12 tests that were required from past locations of interest (5 and 12 days ago obviously). However, most of the people were identified a long time ago as close contacts and required to isolate until after a negative result from the day 12 test, so were not wandering around in the community. But keep in mind that Auckland is at level 4 lockdown, so even if some of these positive cases were in the community, they would have limited interaction with people (grocery store, chemist, medical care, and that's it) and all of them masked as is now required by law. No press conference today or tomorrow, so we will know more on Monday when they will also decide on Auckland's fate. . 

ACT has been similar although they don’t seem to have got rid of the last few cases.  I’m not sure how their lockdown compares.

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1 hour ago, Ausmumof3 said:

ACT has been similar although they don’t seem to have got rid of the last few cases.  I’m not sure how their lockdown compares.

My guess is that the long tail is going to be long, as in 2 months long. As for our lockdown, Level 4 lockdown means you cannot go to work, schools are closed, and essential workers include food and medical. Everything else is closed. Hopefully, on Monday, they will feel like things are under control enough for Auckland that they will begin the reopen to start Wednesday. This would allow tradies to go to work, and restaurant take aways. But not much else. Schools still closed, all people still working from home. The rest of NZ is out of lockdown, so it is pretty hard on Auckland. 

I've found the graphing site on stringency index comparing NZ to Australia to USA. We go harder, but for a shorter period of time.Then we have full freedoms. Our level 4 lockdown is supposed to be one of the strictest in the world. 

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/covid-stringency-index?tab=chart&country=AUS~NZL~USA

Edited by lewelma
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Summary from the guardian today on the NZ response. My impression is that we are very lucky to have 1) a government that is listening to the scientists, and 2) a government that can convince its people to agree to its policies. 3) the Pacifica Assembly of God community that is working hard to control the biggest cluster (half of the outbreak).

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/11/against-all-odds-how-new-zealand-is-bending-the-delta-curve

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1 hour ago, lewelma said:

My guess is that the long tail is going to be long, as in 2 months long. As for our lockdown, Level 4 lockdown means you cannot go to work, schools are closed, and essential workers include food and medical. Everything else is closed. Hopefully, on Monday, they will feel like things are under control enough for Auckland that they will begin the reopen to start Wednesday. This would allow tradies to go to work, and restaurant take aways. But not much else. Schools still closed, all people still working from home. The rest of NZ is out of lockdown, so it is pretty hard on Auckland. 

I've found the graphing site on stringency index comparing NZ to Australia to USA. We go harder, but for a shorter period of time.Then we have full freedoms. Our level 4 lockdown is supposed to be one of the strictest in the world. 

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/covid-stringency-index?tab=chart&country=AUS~NZL~USA

It doesn’t really make sense to compare Australia as a country like that though because the lockdowns are different across the states.  

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9 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

It doesn’t really make sense to compare Australia as a country like that though because the lockdowns are different across the states.  

Fair. The stringency index for NZ has 3 humps that are 2/3rds height, which happened when only Auckland was in lockdown and the rest of the country was completely free (as in 40K person events still happening without masks). I just thought it was an interesting graph. 🙂

But I think that the biggest difference is just that NZ came second with its delta outbreak, so could learn from Australia's successes and failures. No government knows what will work until they try it, so being second was a massive advantage. 

 

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2 hours ago, lewelma said:

Fair. The stringency index for NZ has 3 humps that are 2/3rds height, which happened when only Auckland was in lockdown and the rest of the country was completely free (as in 40K person events still happening without masks). I just thought it was an interesting graph. 🙂

But I think that the biggest difference is just that NZ came second with its delta outbreak, so could learn from Australia's successes and failures. No government knows what will work until they try it, so being second was a massive advantage. 

 

I think what works for Delta is what worked for previous variants. My state, QLD, WA and for a while Vic were all able to get it under control through rapid lockdowns. One state premier made a different set of decisions, either through believing that they somehow could do what no one else did or because they wanted to force the issue of zero Covid and opening up, and now every other state is dealing with repeat incursions due to that.  The federal response here has of course been pretty woeful aside from the initial decision to stop flights early. But the same things that worked for the other variants have worked well in every other state of Australia.  Now we are all pulling in different directions - one state building giant quarantine centres and another one talking about open borders to international travellers by Christmas.  
 

The issue here is not really that Delta is so different but that the country is no longer united in a commitment to Covid zero.  

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Interesting bit of detail that has come out today. Apparently 16% of all close contacts only test positive on day 12. I was surprised that it was so high. But given that statistic, they are expecting 50 more cases from the known household exposure events. 

One more bit of data, apparently there has not been a single positive case from the 'close contact' list.  This was the very very wide net the spread which included 38,000 people. All of our cases have come from the 'very close contact' list. So contagious, but not crazy so.

Edited by lewelma
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8 hours ago, lewelma said:

Interesting bit of detail that has come out today. Apparently 16% of all close contacts only test positive on day 12. I was surprised that it was so high. But given that statistic, they are expecting 50 more cases from the known household exposure events. 

One more bit of data, apparently there has not been a single positive case from the 'close contact' list.  This was the very very wide net the spread which included 38,000 people. All of our cases have come from the 'very close contact' list. So contagious, but not crazy so.

Just curious how NZ is differentiating 'close contact' from 'very close contact', since I know it's going to be different than how the US is defining it, where we have crazypants stuff like 'ate lunch unmasked within a few feet, but only for 14 rather than 15 minutes' or 'we rotate desks every 14 minutes so no one can ever say that they were more than 15 minutes next to someone...'  

I figure your definition might actually help assessing real Delta risks among non-household contacts vs the above nuttiness...

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Statements from medical boards regarding passing along inaccurate and misleading information to the public:

https://www.abem.org/public/news-events/news/2021/08/27/abem-statement-about-abem-certified-physicians-providing-misleading-and-inaccurate-information-to-the-public
 

Quote

Providing misleading and inaccurate information to the public can be sufficiently egregious and inconsistent with the ethical behavior of a physician who is expected to do no harm .

ABEM recognizes that there are numerous medical issues on which physicians will have legitimate differences of opinions – and that ABEM-certified physicians have every right to express their opinions on those issues. However, making public statements that are directly contrary to prevailing medical evidence can constitute unprofessional conduct and may be subject to review by ABEM.

Should ABEM determine that a physician is promulgating inaccurate information that is contrary to the interests of patients and that adversely impacts public safety, ABEM may withdraw or deny certification for that physician.

https://www.theabfm.org/about/communications/news/joint-statement-american-board-family-medicine-american-board-internal

Quote

The Federation of State Medical Boards (FSMB), which supports its member state medical licensing boards, has recently issued a statement saying that providing misinformation about the COVID-19 vaccine contradicts physicians’ ethical and professional responsibilities, and therefore may subject a physician to disciplinary actions, including suspension or revocation of their medical license. We at the American Board of Family Medicine (ABFM), the American Board of Internal Medicine (ABIM), and the American Board of Pediatrics (ABP) support FSMB’s position. We also want all physicians certified by our Boards to know that such unethical or unprofessional conduct may prompt their respective Board to take action that could put their certification at risk.

Expertise matters, and board-certified physicians have demonstrated that they have stayed current in their field. Spreading misinformation or falsehoods to the public during a time of a public health emergency goes against everything our Boards and our community of board-certified physicians stand for. The evidence that we have safe, effective and widely available vaccines against COVID-19 is overwhelming. We are particularly concerned about physicians who use their authority to denigrate vaccination at a time when vaccines continue to demonstrate excellent effectiveness against severe illness, hospitalization and death.

We all look to board-certified physicians to provide outstanding care and guidance; providing misinformation about a lethal disease is unethical, unprofessional and dangerous. In times of medical emergency, the community of expert physicians committed to science and evidence collectively shares a responsibility for giving the public the most accurate and timely health information available, so they can make decisions that work best for themselves and their families.

 

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3 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Death rates in Israel are looking awfully close to the September/October spike last year 😬 though still lower than winter.

I was just reading an article about covid in Israel.  There are a number of people coming back from Rosh Hashana testing positive, even those forging covid tests.  They also just started their school year.

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2 hours ago, RootAnn said:

In New Zealand, there are three types of ‘contacts’:

Close Contacts
Casual Plus Contacts
Casual Contacts

https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-health-advice-public/contact-tracing-covid-19

Not sure which ones are which for the very close vs just close.

They changed the system with delta. Basically the close contacts are now very close contacts and the casual plus contacts are now close contacts. They did this to bring more people into the legal testing and isolation requirements. So my understanding is that this is the new terminology they are using in their daily standups:

People who are identified as Very Close Contacts may live, work or have been in the same place at the same time as someone who is infectious with COVID-19 e.g. they have may travelled on a plane or attend the same school as someone who is a positive COVID-19 case.  

Close Contacts have been in the same place (Location of Interest) at the same time, near someone infectious with COVID-19. 

-----

So there were 38,000 people who have been in the locations of interest, but they said yesterday that they weren't getting it.  You need more direct exposure, like sitting next to a positive case. Some of these places of interest, however, were huge. Like a 100 person lecture hall, they put all 100 people on the close contact list, even if they were across the room. They spread the net wide to make sure they got Every. Single,.Case. The goal is elimination, not suppression.

 

 

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4 hours ago, Matryoshka said:

Just curious how NZ is differentiating 'close contact' from 'very close contact', since I know it's going to be different than how the US is defining it, 

They are making it as simple as possible for people. They post the locations of interest online and the TV news programs run the list (which reminds me of listening to the radio in the morning to hear if my school was closed for snow LOL). Then, if you were in any of the locations during the time noted, you call Healthline. They assess if you are a close or very close contact and give you the legal instructions for testing and isolation. It is under a Health Order by the Director General of Public Health, so it is a legal requirement to do what they say.

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The three hospitals closest to me were all bed blocked at some point yesterday. 

My local hospital, which hasn't been updated or expanded since the 90's, (but which nonetheless saved my ex's life, so they do good with what they have) has had unreported Covid clusters, with at least 5 people dying from Covid they contracted there. 

Multiple schools are shutting each day for cleaning, due to Covid - and most schools have less than 10% of their usual numbers on site. 

#livingwithcovid

On the plus side, in my own suburb and surrounding suburbs, our single vax rates are heading towards 85+%, with close to 60% being double vaxed. I think this is a direct result of the local medical centre being able to vaccinate people since March this year, and since June, the only people they see in person are there for vaccination. It's become a mini hub. 

My part of the locked down LGA has fewer than 2 cases per day. It makes zero sense we are still under curfew, and outdoor limits while a short drive away, people are flocking to Bondi beach. 

 

 

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56 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

The three hospitals closest to me were all bed blocked at some point yesterday. 

My local hospital, which hasn't been updated or expanded since the 90's, (but which nonetheless saved my ex's life, so they do good with what they have) has had unreported Covid clusters, with at least 5 people dying from Covid they contracted there. 

Multiple schools are shutting each day for cleaning, due to Covid - and most schools have less than 10% of their usual numbers on site. 

#livingwithcovid

On the plus side, in my own suburb and surrounding suburbs, our single vax rates are heading towards 85+%, with close to 60% being double vaxed. I think this is a direct result of the local medical centre being able to vaccinate people since March this year, and since June, the only people they see in person are there for vaccination. It's become a mini hub. 

My part of the locked down LGA has fewer than 2 cases per day. It makes zero sense we are still under curfew, and outdoor limits while a short drive away, people are flocking to Bondi beach. 

 

 

Awesome news on the vaccination rates.  The inequalities must be incredibly frustrating.

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Today’s cases

2 for QLD from the school associated with the 5 cases.  All in home quarantine so hopefully it works out.

473 for Vic.  Ouch

1257 for NSW.  Does seem to be stabilising although I guess they are weekend testing numbers.

33 for NZ all but 1 linked 

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1127 for NSW. Epidemiologists are suggesting peak may be close to passed!  Hope they’re right!  It’s a bit uncertain due to the weekend being a typically lower rate anyway. 2 deaths.

22 for ACT and lockdown extended four weeks

445 in Vic and 2 deaths. 1 of those was a man in home care who didn’t know he had COVID.

WA is opening up Pfizer to over 60s.  They have an issue with low vax rates.

 

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2 days now of no community spread in NZ.  All cases from yesterday and today were in households of positive cases, where all household members were isolated and never in the community. Auckland's lockdown has been extended for 7 days to ensure full elimination. 

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We are small town, very conservative, where no one follows any of the recommendations, and a senior at our high school and his Dad both died of covid on Saturday.  They went to the school orientation and got sick 5 days later.  Masks are optional this year and no one is wearing them.  5 kids tested positive today in the elementary school. I hope something changes soon. 😢

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Someone I know working in a Sydney hospital reckons he's seeing people every day coming in with covid and asking to be vaccinated because they're feeling so ill. 

I think there needs to be a really basic campaign based on 'it's too late to be vaccinated once you've got covid'. Because evidently lots and lots of people don't understand that. 

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1 hour ago, bookbard said:

Someone I know working in a Sydney hospital reckons he's seeing people every day coming in with covid and asking to be vaccinated because they're feeling so ill. 

I think there needs to be a really basic campaign based on 'it's too late to be vaccinated once you've got covid'. Because evidently lots and lots of people don't understand that. 

Yep. 

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