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2 minutes ago, Kakids said:

Because, everyone knows, everyone who wanted a vaccine already has it. It’s easy and simple for ANYONE who wanted the vaccine to get it. Everyone currently unvaccinated is that way by choice, so there is no reason for any precautions any longer.

 

If someone can direct me to one of these simple, easy to access vaccination locations, where ANYONE can get it, please let me know. We’d like to have all our family members vaccinated.

In case this is a serious question (can't tell your tone). Try calling your local health department and local pharmacies. Our health department and pharmacies now all have shots and they aren't even doing appointments any more. I live in a rural area and it is very easy to find a location for a vaccine, they advertise often and have numerous hours. Our rate is still only 25%.

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5 minutes ago, Soror said:

In case this is a serious question (can't tell your tone). Try calling your local health department and local pharmacies. Our health department and pharmacies now all have shots and they aren't even doing appointments any more. I live in a rural area and it is very easy to find a location for a vaccine, they advertise often and have numerous hours. Our rate is still only 25%.

I have a feeling she's asking how the heck people can get their kids under 12 vaxxed, since they should be included when we say ANYONE.  

I don't have kids under 12 anymore, but I've also been wondering why the Covid precautions in schools for kids under 12 this year seem to be no different from those for the older kids who can be vaxxed.  It's some kind of magical thinking. 

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Just now, Matryoshka said:

I have a feeling she's asking how the heck people can get their kids under 12 vaxxed, since they should be included when we say ANYONE.  

I don't have kids under 12 anymore, but I've also been wondering why the Covid precautions in schools for kids under 12 this year seem to be no different from those for the older kids who can be vaxxed.  It's some kind of magical thinking. 

Aha, maybe. 

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14 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

I have a feeling she's asking how the heck people can get their kids under 12 vaxxed, since they should be included when we say ANYONE.  

I don't have kids under 12 anymore, but I've also been wondering why the Covid precautions in schools for kids under 12 this year seem to be no different from those for the older kids who can be vaxxed.  It's some kind of magical thinking. 

I think it's from the "kids don't get COVID, or at least not bad COVID" from last year. The arguments for keeping kids home last fall were all about protecting vulnerable adults. Now, those adults are, or at least can be vaccinated, so the argument goes that restrictions now no longer help those adults, and aren't beneficial to kids. 

 

But, what we're seeing is that kids can, and do, get COVID, and some get very sick indeed, and some die. But there seems to be a lot of "not my kid" thinking. 

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5 minutes ago, Dmmetler said:

But, what we're seeing is that kids can, and do, get COVID, and some get very sick indeed, and some die. But there seems to be a lot of "not my kid" thinking. 

Well, exactly. Delta is a new beast, it is making many more kids sick themselves. And they are bringing it home, even to their vaxxed parents (another thing Delta has changed).

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11 minutes ago, Dmmetler said:

I think it's from the "kids don't get COVID, or at least not bad COVID" from last year. The arguments for keeping kids home last fall were all about protecting vulnerable adults. Now, those adults are, or at least can be vaccinated, so the argument goes that restrictions now no longer help those adults, and aren't beneficial to kids. 

 

But, what we're seeing is that kids can, and do, get COVID, and some get very sick indeed, and some die. But there seems to be a lot of "not my kid" thinking. 

Oh yes, we hear a ton of delusional "not my kid" thinking through social media. The head in the sans thinking is so disturbing!

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And just a little bit of good news in this otherwise miserable pandemic, NZ is lifting its lockdown tomorrow with the exception of Auckland. There have been 0 cases for 14 days everywhere but Auckland.

We will be at max gathering of 50 unless outside and then it is 100. And there is a mask mandate for all indoor venues except schools. Scanning in to indoor venues is now mandated rather than voluntary. All other activities are allowed with no restrictions.

Edited by lewelma
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So glad to hear about NZ. Not just for you guys, but it's another dig at certain Australian states who've decided that Delta meant there's no way lockdown could've worked (even though I believe there were earlier Delta cases that were shut down). It shows that a super early lockdown could have worked in NSW. 

I heard some guy on TV last night suggest we may be locked down all the way till Christmas, allowed to open up for Christmas itself, and then shut down again. That was pretty - confronting. But I'm not sure if the guy was an epidemiologist or politician, so who knows. I guess everything depends on how the hospitals cope over the next few months. 

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48 minutes ago, bookbard said:

So glad to hear about NZ. Not just for you guys, but it's another dig at certain Australian states who've decided that Delta meant there's no way lockdown could've worked

They are pretty confident that they can eliminate delta in Auckland, but there certainly is still risk. There is also risk at the border from Auckland to the rest of NZ. Essential workers (like drivers) that have to cross the border are being required to test weekly, but there are about 3000 of them, and it only takes one. Keep in mind that this outbreak of 800+ cases was due to ONE person wandering around the city for ONE week. Clearly there were some super spreader events, but that is seriously still a LOT of spread from a single person in 7 days. So if that happens with a border worker, we could have a mess outside of Auckland pretty quickly. 

Our vaccination rate is majorly fast as in 10% of the population per week which they have said is the fastest seen anywhere in the world, but we are out of vaccine in 8 days unless they can get an extra shipment. The surge in interest means that they have a 2 week gap in supply. If it comes to it, they will take from the rest of the country and send everything we have to Auckland.

Edited by lewelma
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So press conference today said that of the 20 cases yesterday, 16 were household contacts (8 from one family) and already isolating, and 4 had been in the community. But because Auckland is at level 4 lockdown, they had to be wearing masks, and there was no where to go but the grocery store. So the government is really hammering this thing down fast given that the total is 840 cases and we are only on day 19. 

It also appears that they have secured more vaccine to patch the 2 week gap. They are going door to door in some regions. They won't name a figure, but some health commentators are saying 85-90% is the likely goal.

Edited by lewelma
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Really interesting and very detailed article in Science looking at all the evidence for and against a natural vs lab-leak origin of SARS2. The two bits I found most interesting:

(1) The WHO report claimed there was no evidence of live animals being sold at the Huunan markets in 2019. The truth is that no live animals were sold legally  — researchers who were investigating tick-borne diseases in the area recorded nearly 50,000 animals, of 38 different species, being sold at 17 different shops there between May and November 2019. However none of shops had legal permits to sell live animals. These researchers sent a draft of their paper to WHO, but a scientist there admitted she had "mistakenly ignored" it.

(2) In May, Nobel laureate David Baltimore was quoted in The NY Times as saying that the existence of a furin cleavage site on the SARS2 virus was the "smoking gun" that proved the lab leak theory, because no other related coronavirus has this. Unfortunately he was totally wrong about that — there are several other related coronaviruses with furin cleavage sites and there are even intermediate forms that have most of the building blocks to create it, indicating that this has evolved multiple times. He walked back his statement in June, saying he was unaware that there were similar coronaviruses with furin cleavage sites. But the damage was already done and his false statement is still widely cited by lab-leak proponents as proof they were right.

 

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On 9/6/2021 at 5:56 AM, Kakids said:

 

If someone can direct me to one of these simple, easy to access vaccination locations, where ANYONE can get it, please let me know. We’d like to have all our family members vaccinated.

Vaccinefinder is a reliable listing. Details are given in the listings by me as to whether documentation is needed or insurance is required.

I know here they have been hosting lots of multilingual/immigrant community clinics where they are going out by mobile van to people. I know that isn’t the case everywhere, but there are options.

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I talked with my ICU nurse neighbor tonight. I hadn’t seen her in a while. They have mobile morgues parked in the parking lot now, triage tents in the parking lot and have been full up for weeks. She used to work hospice and says these deaths are way worse and taking a harder toll. She said the PPE and medical end of things is hard, but her patients are mean and angry. 
 

Take that x all of the other HCW friends I have and it seems all of my US friends and family feel the same. Hugs, y’all. You are carrying a heavy load that is so heartbreakingly largely preventable. I wish I could send you all pizza, a 6pack, and a week’s vacation.

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1 minute ago, prairiewindmomma said:

I talked with my ICU nurse neighbor tonight. I hadn’t seen her in a while. They have mobile morgues parked in the parking lot now, triage tents in the parking lot and have been full up for weeks. She used to work hospice and says these deaths are way worse and taking a harder toll. She said the PPE and medical end of things is hard, but her patients are mean and angry. 
 

Take that x all of the other HCW friends I have and it seems all of my US friends and family feel the same. Hugs, y’all. You are carrying a heavy load that is so heartbreakingly largely preventable. I wish I could send you all pizza, a 6pack, and a week’s vacation.

Her patients are “mean and angry.” That’s striking. And painfully sad.

 

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1480 for NSW and 221 for Vic today.  NSW is looking at options for moving away from the hotel quarantine system once vax rates hit 70/80pc which I guess makes sense kind of (as much as any of what NSW has done makes sense anyway).  It doesn’t make sense to quarantine overseas arrivals anymore when you’re just as likely to be infected locally. Well, unless overseas develops a more vaccine-resistant variant comes in.

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55 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

I talked with my ICU nurse neighbor tonight. I hadn’t seen her in a while. They have mobile morgues parked in the parking lot now, triage tents in the parking lot and have been full up for weeks. She used to work hospice and says these deaths are way worse and taking a harder toll. She said the PPE and medical end of things is hard, but her patients are mean and angry. 
 

Take that x all of the other HCW friends I have and it seems all of my US friends and family feel the same. Hugs, y’all. You are carrying a heavy load that is so heartbreakingly largely preventable. I wish I could send you all pizza, a 6pack, and a week’s vacation.

And yet, as far as I can see, most are not mean and angry at the people who misled them to begin with.  Instead, they are angry at the people who are now trying to save their life. 

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On 9/6/2021 at 9:37 AM, Dmmetler said:

I think it's from the "kids don't get COVID, or at least not bad COVID" from last year. The arguments for keeping kids home last fall were all about protecting vulnerable adults. Now, those adults are, or at least can be vaccinated, so the argument goes that restrictions now no longer help those adults, and aren't beneficial to kids. 

 

But, what we're seeing is that kids can, and do, get COVID, and some get very sick indeed, and some die. But there seems to be a lot of "not my kid" thinking. 

Indeed. MyDad said this, repeatedly, during our visit. My older brother (vaxxed), whose long-lost daughter (a chiro) is now PG post-COVID infection but still unvaccinated, said the same. I had to disabuse them both WRT the risks to kids and PG women. They were both shocked.

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Interesting reading re origins etc.  I’m somewhat interested by the mention of humanised cells in mice in the lab though my knowledge is pretty limited as to what that means practically.  One of the theories of the local SARS vaccine researcher here was that the virus may not show evidence of engineering but does seem to show evidence of being pretty primed for human cells in a way that indicated it may have been existing in them for a while.  I may be misrepresenting his argument a bit as it’s ages since I’ve read it but the humanised cells in mice could kind of loosely fit with that theory?

I’m not super familiar with this source but it gets ranked mostly factual but left wing bias by the media bias 

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On 9/5/2021 at 10:31 PM, RootAnn said:

So, I saw an update to the Oklahoma ivermectin-overdose story that said "a" hospital refutes the doctor's story and that he hasn't worked there for two months. (Edited to reflect that only one hospital has issued a statement.)

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/gunshot-victims-horse-dewormer-ivermectin-oklahoma-hospitals-covid-1220608/

Was he passing along what he heard from collegues & there is a coverup going on? Or was it "fake news" all along? 

Such a weird story with the "gunshot victims" mention (as many here pointed out at the time).

No one cares about the truth. Apparently, according to other posters, the WTM board knew from the jump that the story didn’t make sense. LOL (too bad no one from here told rolling stone, slate, Rachel Maddox, etc)

Ive since read the doctor said he was misquoted. So there’s a whole ‘nother spin.

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2 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Interesting reading re origins etc.  I’m somewhat interested by the mention of humanised cells in mice in the lab though my knowledge is pretty limited as to what that means practically.  One of the theories of the local SARS vaccine researcher here was that the virus may not show evidence of engineering but does seem to show evidence of being pretty primed for human cells in a way that indicated it may have been existing in them for a while.  I may be misrepresenting his argument a bit as it’s ages since I’ve read it but the humanised cells in mice could kind of loosely fit with that theory?

I’m not super familiar with this source but it gets ranked mostly factual but left wing bias by the media bias 

I don't see anything in that article that would indicate gain-of-function experiments or anything else nefarious. SARS1 and MERS, which were known to come from bats, emerged in 2003 and 2012, respectively, so it's not surprising that in 2014 the US began funding research on the potential of other bat coronaviruses to infect humans, in order to better understand how these viruses work and help prevent future pandemics. Transgenic mice have been used in research on human diseases for decades, there's nothing unusual or nefarious about that either.

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50 minutes ago, pinball said:

 

Ive since read the doctor said he was misquoted. So there’s a whole ‘nother spin.

I find that very easy to believe, as someone who’s been quoted in newspaper articles.  Reporters have a tendency to hear whatever you say in a way that supports the article they’ve decided to write. 

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https://www.science.org/content/article/new-sars-cov-2-variants-have-changed-pandemic-what-will-virus-do-next?

Terrific article in Science explaining in plain English how the virus has evolved so far, as well as how and why and in what direction it may evolve in the future. I would encourage everyone to read it, but here are a few take-aways:

The fact that there are now billions of vaccinated and/or previously infected people puts pressure on the virus to develop immunity-evading capabilities, and the billions of unvaccinated and uninfected people provides exactly the reservoir the virus needs for immunity-evading mutations to develop.

The idea that viruses always evolve to be less severe is false. The most often cited example is the myxoma virus in rabbits, but milder strains only emerged after it had killed off 99% of the population of rabbits in Australia. (The most infectious period for SARS2 is before the person is even symptomatic, so the fact that some people die weeks later does not put any pressure on the virus to become less deadly.)

The Alpha variant is closest to the original Wuhan strain, which is why vaccines were highly effective against it. Delta is further away but still close enough that vaccines offer some protection. The variant that has evolved the furthest from the original strain is Beta, which is why vaccines have generally been the least effective against it. It was outcompeted by Delta because Delta is so much more transmissible, but in the future it’s likely that variants will evolve in the direction of increased immune escape. Antigenic map from the article:

Screen Shot 2021-09-08 at 8.09.53 AM.png

Edited by Corraleno
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1 minute ago, Danae said:

I find that very easy to believe, as someone who’s been quoted in newspaper articles.  Reporters have a tendency to hear whatever you say in a way that supports the article they’ve decided to write. 

My kids still remember how our small local newspaper quoted me as saying things I never actually said, when they did an article about a homeschooling event. I think it’s an all too common occurrence unfortunately.

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The simple ivermectin take away is that it has never been proven to really help. (Slight improvements don’t necessarily mean anything since slight improvements aren’t enough and slight improvements can happen even without it.). The question is:  is it an effective medicine for either prevention of disease or the prevention of severe disease. So far, all research I have read says “no”. (People stating their unproven belief in its efficacy is not research.). 
 

The second take away is that judges are not medical doctors and should not be practicing medicine through the courts. (Though so far, even though the court had ok’d two weeks of ivermectin treatment, there was no big turnaround/medical break through in that time. ). Personal opinion here:  I am sad for the family that there wasn’t a lot of improvement in their family member. I understand how desperate they must feel. But from a medical standpoint, it is consistent with what was seen in the research- perhaps a small Improvement in some people but not enough to really make a difference. 
 

The third takeaway is that the family had other options including transferring their family member to a different hospital. 

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1 hour ago, pinball said:

No one cares about the truth. Apparently, according to other posters, the WTM board knew from the jump that the story didn’t make sense. LOL (too bad no one from here told rolling stone, slate, Rachel Maddox, etc)

Apparently at least some people here on TWTM care about truth, because the comments/discussion about the story not making sense took place here (among people who largely think it’s dumb people are taking animal ivermectin and that people think ivermectin is their best shot for surviving Covid). 

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9 minutes ago, KSera said:

Apparently at least some people here on TWTM care about truth, because the comments/discussion about the story not making sense took place here (among people who largely think it’s dumb people are taking animal ivermectin and that people think ivermectin is their best shot for surviving Covid). 

Yeah, you claimed that before…not exactly sure where all these comments are, bc I looked for them and I didn’t find them.

but I told you that before…

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On 9/3/2021 at 4:48 PM, KSera said:

I thought the story was really odd for that reason. I would want to see something backing up what he says. He doesn’t even say anything about Covid clogging the ER. It’s ivermectin overdoses and gun shop wounds. That seems really odd to me, and dare I say, implausible. (I don’t doubt they’re dealing with ivermectin overdoses, I’m just thinking it seems more likely that maybe there was one particular instance where a gunshot wound couldn’t get into a small ER that was currently dealing with a couple ivermectin doses on top of whatever else. But it’s hard to imagine that’s the general situation in Oklahoma right now.

So, I found this…bolded by me

the weren’t dealing with ivermectin overdoses…that was just PART of the story that was wrong.

 

 

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52 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

The fact that there are now billions of vaccinated and/or previously infected people puts pressure on the virus to develop immunity-evading capabilities, and the billions of unvaccinated and uninfected people provides exactly the reservoir the virus needs for immunity-evading mutations to develop.

A lot of the unvaccinated people here are using this idea as a way to say that the vaccinated are driving this problem. I think they might be lumping this together with the idea of antibody-dependent enhancement to cook up some hybrid conspiracy but I don't know. I know there is someone specific promoting this, but I can't remember who.

Would it be okay to ask if you can give the gist of how this is different from the conspiracy theory version, assuming you are familiar with the conspiracy? 

I think some folks blame the vaccinated and some are just pleading with people to not get it because they think the vaccinated will die within the next couple of years because the vaccine will make future infection worse somehow. 

I am not even sure all the people who seem to be on the same page about this are actually coming from the same angle; there is so much disinformation to go around. 

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2 hours ago, pinball said:

Ive since read the doctor said he was misquoted. So there’s a whole ‘nother spin.

I can't find it right now, but I think CNN actually called around about the stiry recently and wrote something on it. The doctor did say he was misquoted in that article I read recently.

37 minutes ago, pinball said:

The weren’t dealing with ivermectin overdoses…that was just PART of the story that was wrong.

One hospital system refuted the story. Another system said that they have had some ivermectin overdoses but that most of their cases are covid (in general). 

Here it is: https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/07/politics/fact-check-oklahoma-ivermectin-story/index.html

"KFOR's article failed to quote anybody else who could have provided more context about what was actually happening in Oklahoma facilities. By contrast, an article published the same day by Oklahoma's Tulsa World newspaper quoted multiple people who focused on Covid-19 itself as a cause of the hospital congestion."

"On Monday, another hospital where McElyea works, INTEGRIS Grove Hospital, said in a statement that "what we can confirm is that we have seen a handful of ivermectin patients in our emergency rooms." The hospital added: "And while our hospitals are not filled with people who have taken ivermectin, such patients are adding to the congestion already caused by COVID-19 and other emergencies." In a follow-up message Monday night, hospital spokesperson Kristi Wallace said they had no beds available that night."

So bad journalism, no follow-up (for awhile at least), and a lot of jumping on.

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46 minutes ago, pinball said:

So, I found this…bolded by me

the weren’t dealing with ivermectin overdoses…that was just PART of the story that was wrong.

 

 

Yeah. Sounds like that particular hospital wasn’t. I figured it likely that some Oklahoma hospitals are seeing some ivermectin overdoses, since that is being widely reported, but sounds like not that specific one. I probably shouldn’t have commented on your comment about truth, because I sense you are looking for discord or…something. I’m honestly not sure what you are after here. 

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3 minutes ago, RootAnn said:

I can't find it right now, but I think CNN actually called around about the stiry recently and wrote something on it. The doctor did say he was misquoted in that article I read recently.

One hospital system refuted the story. Another system said that they have had some ivermectin overdoses but that most of their cases are covid (in general). 

Here it is: https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/07/politics/fact-check-oklahoma-ivermectin-story/index.html

"KFOR's article failed to quote anybody else who could have provided more context about what was actually happening in Oklahoma facilities. By contrast, an article published the same day by Oklahoma's Tulsa World newspaper quoted multiple people who focused on Covid-19 itself as a cause of the hospital congestion."

"On Monday, another hospital where McElyea works, INTEGRIS Grove Hospital, said in a statement that "what we can confirm is that we have seen a handful of ivermectin patients in our emergency rooms." The hospital added: "And while our hospitals are not filled with people who have taken ivermectin, such patients are adding to the congestion already caused by COVID-19 and other emergencies." In a follow-up message Monday night, hospital spokesperson Kristi Wallace said they had no beds available that night."

So bad journalism, no follow-up (for awhile at least), and a lot of jumping on.

Yes, very bad journalism. Very very bad. 

The story went EVERYWHERE…and it was accepted without question for DAYS…

Because it fit the narrative. 
 

and everyone knows the retraction NEVER gets the exposure the original clickbait articles get.

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Ivermectin at human doses (as I said upthread) haven't been shown to do too much to prevent or cure Covid19.  But while you might have some unpleasant side effects (I had them when I was prescribed it on-label, ie. not for Covid), you won't overdose on it.  It just won't necessarily help you beat Covid especially if you have a moderate or severe case.  Taking a human preparation of Ivermectin can also cause overdoses (as any med can) if you take it wrong.  And since most doctors aren't actually prescribing and monitoring patients taking this, people have overdosed for that reason.  (I shouldn't have to say that not overdoses are fatal.  They are, however, not benign.) 

Ivermectin at horse/cow doses and/or in the preparation for horses/cows which include additives which have not been tested for human use, can and have caused overdoses. 

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55 minutes ago, kbutton said:

A lot of the unvaccinated people here are using this idea as a way to say that the vaccinated are driving this problem. I think they might be lumping this together with the idea of antibody-dependent enhancement to cook up some hybrid conspiracy but I don't know. I know there is someone specific promoting this, but I can't remember who.

Would it be okay to ask if you can give the gist of how this is different from the conspiracy theory version, assuming you are familiar with the conspiracy? 

I think some folks blame the vaccinated and some are just pleading with people to not get it because they think the vaccinated will die within the next couple of years because the vaccine will make future infection worse somehow. 

I am not even sure all the people who seem to be on the same page about this are actually coming from the same angle; there is so much disinformation to go around. 

The thing about ADE is that it can occur with natural infection (e.g. dengue fever) as well as vaccines, so if ADE were a factor with SARS2 then getting infected instead of vaccinated would also set you up for a worse case in the future. And the fact that people who get infected after vaccination have vastly lower hospitalization and death rates than people who get infected without prior vaccination contradicts the idea that vaccinated people will have worse infections later. 

The belief that it's vaccines, not rampant uncontrolled infection, that will cause SARS2 to mutate to more dangerous forms comes from a Belgian veterinarian who warned that the SARS2 vaccines would act just like a vaccine against a herpes virus that causes cancer in chickens (Marek's disease). That particular virus killed chickens very quickly, mostly before they had a chance to pass it on. The first iteration of the vaccine prevented them from dying but did not prevent infection, therefore allowing them to live long enough to transmit it to other chickens. But SARS2 does not kill most people before they can transmit the virus, and we know that although vaccines don't block 100% of infections, they do block a significant percentage, thereby reducing transmission. There is no parallel here.

And the biologist who actually did the research on Marek's disease is dismayed that his work is being falsely used by anti-vaxxers. He also notes that newer vaccines for this disease have been so effective that there have been no lethal breakthrough cases in more than 20 years. He says "As of late August 2021, more than 625,000 Americans have died from a disease that is now largely vaccine-preventable. It is sobering for me to think that some of the next to die might have avoided lifesaving vaccines because people are stoking evolutionary fears extrapolated from our research in chickens."

 

 

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1 hour ago, RootAnn said:

One hospital system refuted the story. Another system said that they have had some ivermectin overdoses but that most of their cases are covid (in general). 

Here it is: https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/07/politics/fact-check-oklahoma-ivermectin-story/index.html

"KFOR's article failed to quote anybody else who could have provided more context about what was actually happening in Oklahoma facilities. By contrast, an article published the same day by Oklahoma's Tulsa World newspaper quoted multiple people who focused on Covid-19 itself as a cause of the hospital congestion."

I only ever saw the story as linked here to KFOR, so I don’t know what kind of reach it got otherwise. Funny that CNN is the one debunking it. I don’t do Facebook or get news from sketchy sources, so have no idea how much coverage it actually got. I never saw it in any of my usual sources. In trying to look for it now, I see Newsweek linked it, but mostly I’m finding pro ivermectin sources using it as some kind of example of how the media is so wrong about ivermectin 🤨🤷‍♀️. But, I suppose that logic is about par for the course there.

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1 hour ago, Corraleno said:

There is no parallel here.

Thank you. While I don't give credence to these ideas, I would like to be somewhat conversant in where they come from. Once in a while, someone is truly curious, and having some idea of what people are saying and where it comes from helps me know what to say in response. It's become too much for me to keep an ear to the ground on social media though; I had to cut off a lot of people on SM because I have not handled it well that my fellow Christians are the ones spreading lies and disinformation. 

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5 hours ago, Corraleno said:

I don't see anything in that article that would indicate gain-of-function experiments or anything else nefarious. SARS1 and MERS, which were known to come from bats, emerged in 2003 and 2012, respectively, so it's not surprising that in 2014 the US began funding research on the potential of other bat coronaviruses to infect humans, in order to better understand how these viruses work and help prevent future pandemics. Transgenic mice have been used in research on human diseases for decades, there's nothing unusual or nefarious about that either.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/interactive/2021/a-science-in-the-shadows/
 

A lot more background etc available here though it predates the FOI documents 

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5 hours ago, Corraleno said:

I don't see anything in that article that would indicate gain-of-function experiments or anything else nefarious. SARS1 and MERS, which were known to come from bats, emerged in 2003 and 2012, respectively, so it's not surprising that in 2014 the US began funding research on the potential of other bat coronaviruses to infect humans, in order to better understand how these viruses work and help prevent future pandemics. Transgenic mice have been used in research on human diseases for decades, there's nothing unusual or nefarious about that either.

“The bat coronavirus grant provided EcoHealth Alliance with a total of $3.1 million, including $599,000 that the Wuhan Institute of Virology used in part to identify and alter bat coronaviruses likely to infect humans.” From the article - “to identify and alter”

 

and

According to Richard Ebright, a molecular biologist at Rutgers University, the documents contain critical information about the research done in Wuhan, including about the creation of novel viruses. “The viruses they constructed were tested for their ability to infect mice that were engineered to display human type receptors on their cell,” 

 

Edited by Ausmumof3
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https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.09.06.459005v1
 

Study from Japan on Mu and resistance to vaccine and natural infection antibodies. (Preprint not peer reviewed as yet)

“Here, we demonstrate that the Mu variant is highly resistant to sera from COVID-19 convalescent and BNT162b2-vaccinated individuals. Direct comparison of different SARS-CoV-2 spike proteins revealed that Mu spike is more resistant to serum-mediated neutralization than all other currently recognized variants of interest (VOI) and concern (VOC). “

 

In guess we have to hope that it’s less transmissible than Delta.

 

Also on further reading they used pseudo virus with the spike from Mu not the virus itself so I wonder if that had any impact?  Given the vaccines are designed to recognise the spike I guess probably not.

Edited by Ausmumof3
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I wish there was a way to find out what variant you had. My daughter tested positive last month and we all quarantined but nobody else got it. She never felt sick and was clear in a couple days.

 

My boys are currently both sick. One tested positive for Covid but my husband and I are not sick. I'm thinking we have to wait until they are clear of the virus before we even start the clock on the quarantine so we will probably wait to be tested. I just find it odd that my very very recently vaccinated children are sick and my husband and I, who were vaccinated in March, still have no issue at all. Of course, we could just get it later but I'm curious if it is this MU variety that seems prevalent where I live. 

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17 minutes ago, frogger said:

I wish there was a way to find out what variant you had. My daughter tested positive last month and we all quarantined but nobody else got it. She never felt sick and was clear in a couple days.

 

My boys are currently both sick. One tested positive for Covid but my husband and I are not sick. I'm thinking we have to wait until they are clear of the virus before we even start the clock on the quarantine so we will probably wait to be tested. I just find it odd that my very very recently vaccinated children are sick and my husband and I, who were vaccinated in March, still have no issue at all. Of course, we could just get it later but I'm curious if it is this MU variety that seems prevalent where I 

 You could be asymptomatic. 

Edited by Laura Corin
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7 hours ago, frogger said:

I wish there was a way to find out what variant you had. My daughter tested positive last month and we all quarantined but nobody else got it. She never felt sick and was clear in a couple days.

 

My boys are currently both sick. One tested positive for Covid but my husband and I are not sick. I'm thinking we have to wait until they are clear of the virus before we even start the clock on the quarantine so we will probably wait to be tested. I just find it odd that my very very recently vaccinated children are sick and my husband and I, who were vaccinated in March, still have no issue at all. Of course, we could just get it later but I'm curious if it is this MU variety that seems prevalent where I live. 

How recently?  It takes a bit of time to build immunity after vaccine and maybe you guys have hit that point but they haven’t?  I think Mu is right across the US but less widespread than delta. I have to admit I feel slightly ridiculous talking about Mu variants but hey.  
 

edited to add whatever the story really hoping your kids have an easy run and you guys don’t get it.

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