wuhan - coronavirus

[pinball]

9 minutes ago, KSera said:

Apparently at least some people here on TWTM care about truth, because the comments/discussion about the story not making sense took place here (among people who largely think it’s dumb people are taking animal ivermectin and that people think ivermectin is their best shot for surviving Covid). 

Yeah, you claimed that before…not exactly sure where all these comments are, bc I looked for them and I didn’t find them.

but I told you that before…

[pinball]

On 9/3/2021 at 4:48 PM, KSera said:

I thought the story was really odd for that reason. I would want to see something backing up what he says. He doesn’t even say anything about Covid clogging the ER. It’s ivermectin overdoses and gun shop wounds. That seems really odd to me, and dare I say, implausible. (I don’t doubt they’re dealing with ivermectin overdoses, I’m just thinking it seems more likely that maybe there was one particular instance where a gunshot wound couldn’t get into a small ER that was currently dealing with a couple ivermectin doses on top of whatever else. But it’s hard to imagine that’s the general situation in Oklahoma right now.

So, I found this…bolded by me

the weren’t dealing with ivermectin overdoses…that was just PART of the story that was wrong.

 

 

[kbutton]

52 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

The fact that there are now billions of vaccinated and/or previously infected people puts pressure on the virus to develop immunity-evading capabilities, and the billions of unvaccinated and uninfected people provides exactly the reservoir the virus needs for immunity-evading mutations to develop.

A lot of the unvaccinated people here are using this idea as a way to say that the vaccinated are driving this problem. I think they might be lumping this together with the idea of antibody-dependent enhancement to cook up some hybrid conspiracy but I don't know. I know there is someone specific promoting this, but I can't remember who.

Would it be okay to ask if you can give the gist of how this is different from the conspiracy theory version, assuming you are familiar with the conspiracy? 

I think some folks blame the vaccinated and some are just pleading with people to not get it because they think the vaccinated will die within the next couple of years because the vaccine will make future infection worse somehow. 

I am not even sure all the people who seem to be on the same page about this are actually coming from the same angle; there is so much disinformation to go around. 

[RootAnn]

2 hours ago, pinball said:

Ive since read the doctor said he was misquoted. So there’s a whole ‘nother spin.

I can't find it right now, but I think CNN actually called around about the stiry recently and wrote something on it. The doctor did say he was misquoted in that article I read recently.

37 minutes ago, pinball said:

The weren’t dealing with ivermectin overdoses…that was just PART of the story that was wrong.

One hospital system refuted the story. Another system said that they have had some ivermectin overdoses but that most of their cases are covid (in general). 

Here it is: https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/07/politics/fact-check-oklahoma-ivermectin-story/index.html

"KFOR's article failed to quote anybody else who could have provided more context about what was actually happening in Oklahoma facilities. By contrast, an article published the same day by Oklahoma's Tulsa World newspaper quoted multiple people who focused on Covid-19 itself as a cause of the hospital congestion."

"On Monday, another hospital where McElyea works, INTEGRIS Grove Hospital, said in a statement that "what we can confirm is that we have seen a handful of ivermectin patients in our emergency rooms." The hospital added: "And while our hospitals are not filled with people who have taken ivermectin, such patients are adding to the congestion already caused by COVID-19 and other emergencies." In a follow-up message Monday night, hospital spokesperson Kristi Wallace said they had no beds available that night."

So bad journalism, no follow-up (for awhile at least), and a lot of jumping on.

[KSera]

46 minutes ago, pinball said:

So, I found this…bolded by me

the weren’t dealing with ivermectin overdoses…that was just PART of the story that was wrong.

 

 

Yeah. Sounds like that particular hospital wasn’t. I figured it likely that some Oklahoma hospitals are seeing some ivermectin overdoses, since that is being widely reported, but sounds like not that specific one. I probably shouldn’t have commented on your comment about truth, because I sense you are looking for discord or…something. I’m honestly not sure what you are after here. 

[pinball]

3 minutes ago, RootAnn said:

I can't find it right now, but I think CNN actually called around about the stiry recently and wrote something on it. The doctor did say he was misquoted in that article I read recently.

One hospital system refuted the story. Another system said that they have had some ivermectin overdoses but that most of their cases are covid (in general). 

Here it is: https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/07/politics/fact-check-oklahoma-ivermectin-story/index.html

"KFOR's article failed to quote anybody else who could have provided more context about what was actually happening in Oklahoma facilities. By contrast, an article published the same day by Oklahoma's Tulsa World newspaper quoted multiple people who focused on Covid-19 itself as a cause of the hospital congestion."

"On Monday, another hospital where McElyea works, INTEGRIS Grove Hospital, said in a statement that "what we can confirm is that we have seen a handful of ivermectin patients in our emergency rooms." The hospital added: "And while our hospitals are not filled with people who have taken ivermectin, such patients are adding to the congestion already caused by COVID-19 and other emergencies." In a follow-up message Monday night, hospital spokesperson Kristi Wallace said they had no beds available that night."

So bad journalism, no follow-up (for awhile at least), and a lot of jumping on.

Yes, very bad journalism. Very very bad. 

The story went EVERYWHERE…and it was accepted without question for DAYS…

Because it fit the narrative. 
 

and everyone knows the retraction NEVER gets the exposure the original clickbait articles get.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Ivermectin at human doses (as I said upthread) haven't been shown to do too much to prevent or cure Covid19.  But while you might have some unpleasant side effects (I had them when I was prescribed it on-label, ie. not for Covid), you won't overdose on it.  It just won't necessarily help you beat Covid especially if you have a moderate or severe case.  Taking a human preparation of Ivermectin can also cause overdoses (as any med can) if you take it wrong.  And since most doctors aren't actually prescribing and monitoring patients taking this, people have overdosed for that reason.  (I shouldn't have to say that not overdoses are fatal.  They are, however, not benign.) 

Ivermectin at horse/cow doses and/or in the preparation for horses/cows which include additives which have not been tested for human use, can and have caused overdoses. 

[Corraleno]

55 minutes ago, kbutton said:

A lot of the unvaccinated people here are using this idea as a way to say that the vaccinated are driving this problem. I think they might be lumping this together with the idea of antibody-dependent enhancement to cook up some hybrid conspiracy but I don't know. I know there is someone specific promoting this, but I can't remember who.

Would it be okay to ask if you can give the gist of how this is different from the conspiracy theory version, assuming you are familiar with the conspiracy? 

I think some folks blame the vaccinated and some are just pleading with people to not get it because they think the vaccinated will die within the next couple of years because the vaccine will make future infection worse somehow. 

I am not even sure all the people who seem to be on the same page about this are actually coming from the same angle; there is so much disinformation to go around. 

The thing about ADE is that it can occur with natural infection (e.g. dengue fever) as well as vaccines, so if ADE were a factor with SARS2 then getting infected instead of vaccinated would also set you up for a worse case in the future. And the fact that people who get infected after vaccination have vastly lower hospitalization and death rates than people who get infected without prior vaccination contradicts the idea that vaccinated people will have worse infections later. 

The belief that it's vaccines, not rampant uncontrolled infection, that will cause SARS2 to mutate to more dangerous forms comes from a Belgian veterinarian who warned that the SARS2 vaccines would act just like a vaccine against a herpes virus that causes cancer in chickens (Marek's disease). That particular virus killed chickens very quickly, mostly before they had a chance to pass it on. The first iteration of the vaccine prevented them from dying but did not prevent infection, therefore allowing them to live long enough to transmit it to other chickens. But SARS2 does not kill most people before they can transmit the virus, and we know that although vaccines don't block 100% of infections, they do block a significant percentage, thereby reducing transmission. There is no parallel here.

And the biologist who actually did the research on Marek's disease is dismayed that his work is being falsely used by anti-vaxxers. He also notes that newer vaccines for this disease have been so effective that there have been no lethal breakthrough cases in more than 20 years. He says "As of late August 2021, more than 625,000 Americans have died from a disease that is now largely vaccine-preventable. It is sobering for me to think that some of the next to die might have avoided lifesaving vaccines because people are stoking evolutionary fears extrapolated from our research in chickens."

 

 

[KSera]

1 hour ago, RootAnn said:

One hospital system refuted the story. Another system said that they have had some ivermectin overdoses but that most of their cases are covid (in general). 

Here it is: https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/07/politics/fact-check-oklahoma-ivermectin-story/index.html

"KFOR's article failed to quote anybody else who could have provided more context about what was actually happening in Oklahoma facilities. By contrast, an article published the same day by Oklahoma's Tulsa World newspaper quoted multiple people who focused on Covid-19 itself as a cause of the hospital congestion."

I only ever saw the story as linked here to KFOR, so I don’t know what kind of reach it got otherwise. Funny that CNN is the one debunking it. I don’t do Facebook or get news from sketchy sources, so have no idea how much coverage it actually got. I never saw it in any of my usual sources. In trying to look for it now, I see Newsweek linked it, but mostly I’m finding pro ivermectin sources using it as some kind of example of how the media is so wrong about ivermectin 🤨🤷‍♀️. But, I suppose that logic is about par for the course there.

[kbutton]

1 hour ago, Corraleno said:

There is no parallel here.

Thank you. While I don't give credence to these ideas, I would like to be somewhat conversant in where they come from. Once in a while, someone is truly curious, and having some idea of what people are saying and where it comes from helps me know what to say in response. It's become too much for me to keep an ear to the ground on social media though; I had to cut off a lot of people on SM because I have not handled it well that my fellow Christians are the ones spreading lies and disinformation. 

[Ausmumof3]

5 hours ago, Corraleno said:

I don't see anything in that article that would indicate gain-of-function experiments or anything else nefarious. SARS1 and MERS, which were known to come from bats, emerged in 2003 and 2012, respectively, so it's not surprising that in 2014 the US began funding research on the potential of other bat coronaviruses to infect humans, in order to better understand how these viruses work and help prevent future pandemics. Transgenic mice have been used in research on human diseases for decades, there's nothing unusual or nefarious about that either.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/interactive/2021/a-science-in-the-shadows/
 

A lot more background etc available here though it predates the FOI documents 

[Ausmumof3]

5 hours ago, Corraleno said:

I don't see anything in that article that would indicate gain-of-function experiments or anything else nefarious. SARS1 and MERS, which were known to come from bats, emerged in 2003 and 2012, respectively, so it's not surprising that in 2014 the US began funding research on the potential of other bat coronaviruses to infect humans, in order to better understand how these viruses work and help prevent future pandemics. Transgenic mice have been used in research on human diseases for decades, there's nothing unusual or nefarious about that either.

“The bat coronavirus grant provided EcoHealth Alliance with a total of $3.1 million, including $599,000 that the Wuhan Institute of Virology used in part to identify and alter bat coronaviruses likely to infect humans.” From the article - “to identify and alter”

 

and

According to Richard Ebright, a molecular biologist at Rutgers University, the documents contain critical information about the research done in Wuhan, including about the creation of novel viruses. “The viruses they constructed were tested for their ability to infect mice that were engineered to display human type receptors on their cell,” 

 

Edited September 8, 2021 by Ausmumof3

[Ausmumof3]

324 cases for Vic today 😞 

[Ausmumof3]

1405 cases in NSW 

42.5pc have had second dose of vaccine in NSW.

 

[Ausmumof3]

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.09.06.459005v1
 

Study from Japan on Mu and resistance to vaccine and natural infection antibodies. (Preprint not peer reviewed as yet)

“Here, we demonstrate that the Mu variant is highly resistant to sera from COVID-19 convalescent and BNT162b2-vaccinated individuals. Direct comparison of different SARS-CoV-2 spike proteins revealed that Mu spike is more resistant to serum-mediated neutralization than all other currently recognized variants of interest (VOI) and concern (VOC). “

 

In guess we have to hope that it’s less transmissible than Delta.

 

Also on further reading they used pseudo virus with the spike from Mu not the virus itself so I wonder if that had any impact?  Given the vaccines are designed to recognise the spike I guess probably not.

Edited September 9, 2021 by Ausmumof3

[Melissa Louise]

Freaking out, y'all. 

So. Many. Ambulances. 

 

[frogger]

I wish there was a way to find out what variant you had. My daughter tested positive last month and we all quarantined but nobody else got it. She never felt sick and was clear in a couple days.

 

My boys are currently both sick. One tested positive for Covid but my husband and I are not sick. I'm thinking we have to wait until they are clear of the virus before we even start the clock on the quarantine so we will probably wait to be tested. I just find it odd that my very very recently vaccinated children are sick and my husband and I, who were vaccinated in March, still have no issue at all. Of course, we could just get it later but I'm curious if it is this MU variety that seems prevalent where I live. 

[Laura Corin]

17 minutes ago, frogger said:

I wish there was a way to find out what variant you had. My daughter tested positive last month and we all quarantined but nobody else got it. She never felt sick and was clear in a couple days.

 

My boys are currently both sick. One tested positive for Covid but my husband and I are not sick. I'm thinking we have to wait until they are clear of the virus before we even start the clock on the quarantine so we will probably wait to be tested. I just find it odd that my very very recently vaccinated children are sick and my husband and I, who were vaccinated in March, still have no issue at all. Of course, we could just get it later but I'm curious if it is this MU variety that seems prevalent where I 

 You could be asymptomatic. 

Edited September 9, 2021 by Laura Corin

[lewelma]

Down to 12 today (9 were household contacts), and we just scored 250,000 doses from Spain. 

[Ausmumof3]

I missed that NZ are down so low today!  

Edited September 9, 2021 by Ausmumof3

[Ausmumof3]

7 hours ago, frogger said:

I wish there was a way to find out what variant you had. My daughter tested positive last month and we all quarantined but nobody else got it. She never felt sick and was clear in a couple days.

 

My boys are currently both sick. One tested positive for Covid but my husband and I are not sick. I'm thinking we have to wait until they are clear of the virus before we even start the clock on the quarantine so we will probably wait to be tested. I just find it odd that my very very recently vaccinated children are sick and my husband and I, who were vaccinated in March, still have no issue at all. Of course, we could just get it later but I'm curious if it is this MU variety that seems prevalent where I live. 

How recently?  It takes a bit of time to build immunity after vaccine and maybe you guys have hit that point but they haven’t?  I think Mu is right across the US but less widespread than delta. I have to admit I feel slightly ridiculous talking about Mu variants but hey.  
 

edited to add whatever the story really hoping your kids have an easy run and you guys don’t get it.

Edited September 9, 2021 by Ausmumof3

[frogger]

8 hours ago, Laura Corin said:

 You could be asymptomatic. 

It just seems backwards for kids to show symptoms and adults to not. 

 

AusMom- They were vaccinated in June and July. Youngest may have gotten his shot early August but he is well past the post two week period. I and DH were vaccinated in March. Then again only one sick child supposedly has it. One of the tests could simply be wrong, either the positive or negative. 

 

Soooooo thankful my husband can work from home and we can continue on with school! 

Edited September 9, 2021 by frogger

[KSera]

 

9 hours ago, lewelma said:

Down to 12 today (9 were household contacts), and we just scored 250,000 doses from Spain. 

It's fantastic to see how NZ is doing with this!  Hoping the numbers keep going down and down and you start having some zero days soon. And that you get enough vaccine to get everyone done as quickly, since everyone is so willing there. Would be a great reward to your country for staying the course and everyone working together.

59 minutes ago, frogger said:

 

AusMom- They were vaccinated in June and July. Youngest may have gotten his shot early August but he is well past the post two week period. I and DH were vaccinated in March. Then again only one sick child supposedly has it. One of the tests could simply be wrong, either the positive or negative. 

 

I'm assuming your kids got Pfizer. What did you and your DH have? I would test 4-5 days after your kids got sick.

[frogger]

5 minutes ago, KSera said:

 

It's fantastic to see how NZ is doing with this!  Hoping the numbers keep going down and down and you start having some zero days soon. And that you get enough vaccine to get everyone done as quickly, since everyone is so willing there. Would be a great reward to your country for staying the course and everyone working together.

I'm assuming your kids got Pfizer. What did you and your DH have? I would test 4-5 days after your kids got sick.

We all received Pfizer. 

[Ausmumof3]

3 hours ago, frogger said:

It just seems backwards for kids to show symptoms and adults to not. 

 

AusMom- They were vaccinated in June and July. Youngest may have gotten his shot early August but he is well past the post two week period. I and DH were vaccinated in March. Then again only one sick child supposedly has it. One of the tests could simply be wrong, either the positive or negative. 

 

Soooooo thankful my husband can work from home and we can continue on with school! 

Ah yeah won’t be that then. 

[Melissa Louise]

Air con isn't the same thing Adair filtering, is it? All out classrooms getting air con in the next few weeks - but that's not ventilation, is it? 

[Melissa Louise]

*air

[Longtime Lurker]

7 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

Air con isn't the same thing Adair filtering, is it? All out classrooms getting air con in the next few weeks - but that's not ventilation, is it? 

I think it's still supposed to help.

[KSera]

28 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

Air con isn't the same thing Adair filtering, is it? All out classrooms getting air con in the next few weeks - but that's not ventilation, is it? 

It depends where the air is drawn from. If it’s all recirculated, that doesn’t help. If it’s venting the old air and pulling in new outside air, that’s very good. If it has a hepa filter, that’s extremely helpful as well. 

[Melissa Louise]

9 minutes ago, KSera said:

It depends where the air is drawn from. If it’s all recirculated, that doesn’t help. If it’s venting the old air and pulling in new outside air, that’s very good. If it has a hepa filter, that’s extremely helpful as well. 

I guess I am going to have to ask.

I really wish exec was on top of communicating this to us. Safety shouldn't be a bottom up proposition. 

[KSera]

16 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

I guess I am going to have to ask.

I really wish exec was on top of communicating this to us. Safety shouldn't be a bottom up proposition. 

Since they are putting in new AC, I would feel optimistic.  I would think new systems are all built with the ability to draw in outside air (I’m not certain that is true though) which means (if so) it’s just a matter of making sure they are using the settings with maximum outside air intake. Our local schools are doing it that way to achieve sufficient air changes per hour. 

[Ausmumof3]

Air con can be an issue if it means everything gets sealed up to save electricity.  Hopefully they might but filtration on it or something.

[Ausmumof3]

1542 cases for NSW and 9 deaths.  Paramedics say rbe workload has doubled in the last two weeks.

Gladys comment of the day on discontinuing press conferences. Normalise what?  Several hundred ongoing hospitalisations and a few deaths every day?

"I can assure the people of this state and they can judge me on my record, whenever I need to speak directly to the public, I absolutely will, but we also have to make sure that as a government, we normalise the way we do things every day," she says.

"I am always accountable [to the] public as the ministry is but we also have to accept all of us have to start thinking about what living with COVID means.

[Ausmumof3]

ACT had 24 cases.  They seem to continually bounce up and down all over the place but thankfully not growing steadily.

Vic - 334 cases.

QLD - 1 unknown origin community case that resulted in a school being closed.

We still seem to be on the 70pc vaccinated road even though evidence from overseas is that that’s not enough.

I’ve heard appointments may be opening for vaccine for 12-16 from Monday.

[Melissa Louise]

19 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

1542 cases for NSW and 9 deaths.  Paramedics say rbe workload has doubled in the last two weeks.

Gladys comment of the day on discontinuing press conferences. Normalise what?  Several hundred ongoing hospitalisations and a few deaths every day?

"I can assure the people of this state and they can judge me on my record, whenever I need to speak directly to the public, I absolutely will, but we also have to make sure that as a government, we normalise the way we do things every day," she says.

"I am always accountable [to the] public as the ministry is but we also have to accept all of us have to start thinking about what living with COVID means.

I'm just appalled at this government. Even more than usual. **** off Gladys.

I'm so stressed and upset about how the opening is being handled. 

[YaelAldrich]

21 hours ago, Melissa Louise said:

Freaking out, y'all. 

So. Many. Ambulances. 

 

I'm so sorry. At the beginning of the lockdown (such a long time ago!) that is all we heard day after day since we live near one of the many hospitals in Boston. It was so depressing. 

Australia is in my prayers - my husband continues to work with your governments to try to help y'all.

[lewelma]

I feel kind of yucky posting this given what Aus is experiencing, but NZ is down to 11 cases today with 10 already in MIQ because they were household contacts, and only 1 positive person who was in the community. All waste water is clear, and testing numbers are high. We appear to be in the long tail. They are still tracking 38000 contacts who are being contacted daily by the now 1700 contact tracers. Very close contacts are either in MIQ or having all food/supplies delivered by government services so they don't have to leave their home. It looks like they've actually conquered this outbreak. I'm very impressed. We have had 860 cases, and they are down to 1 in the community. Just Wow. 

Edited September 10, 2021 by lewelma

[bookbard]

43 minutes ago, lewelma said:

I feel kind of yucky posting this given what Aus is experiencing, but NZ is down to 11 cases today with 10 already in MIQ because they were household contacts, and only 1 positive person who was in the community. 

That's fantastic - don't feel bad about posting it! I always feel vindicated reading that, and knowing so many people over there are safe and not having to go through what we are going through. 

[ieta_cassiopeia]

9 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

1542 cases for NSW and 9 deaths.  Paramedics say rbe workload has doubled in the last two weeks.

Gladys comment of the day on discontinuing press conferences. Normalise what?  Several hundred ongoing hospitalisations and a few deaths every day?

"I can assure the people of this state and they can judge me on my record, whenever I need to speak directly to the public, I absolutely will, but we also have to make sure that as a government, we normalise the way we do things every day," she says.

"Normalisation" means keeping things the same. People have got used to the conferences, taking them out is the opposite of normalisation.

[Ausmumof3]

8 hours ago, lewelma said:

I feel kind of yucky posting this given what Aus is experiencing, but NZ is down to 11 cases today with 10 already in MIQ because they were household contacts, and only 1 positive person who was in the community. All waste water is clear, and testing numbers are high. We appear to be in the long tail. They are still tracking 38000 contacts who are being contacted daily by the now 1700 contact tracers. Very close contacts are either in MIQ or having all food/supplies delivered by government services so they don't have to leave their home. It looks like they've actually conquered this outbreak. I'm very impressed. We have had 860 cases, and they are down to 1 in the community. Just Wow. 

Fabulous.  I hear you on having a bit of survivor guilt down in SA as well but honestly just happy to know it’s doable if you do it the right way.  Also happy for my NZ rellies.

[VickiMNE]

8 hours ago, lewelma said:

I feel kind of yucky posting this given what Aus is experiencing, but NZ is down to 11 cases today with 10 already in MIQ because they were household contacts, and only 1 positive person who was in the community. All waste water is clear, and testing numbers are high. We appear to be in the long tail. They are still tracking 38000 contacts who are being contacted daily by the now 1700 contact tracers. Very close contacts are either in MIQ or having all food/supplies delivered by government services so they don't have to leave their home. It looks like they've actually conquered this outbreak. I'm very impressed. We have had 860 cases, and they are down to 1 in the community. Just Wow. 

No, don't feel yucky!  I'm enjoying rooting for you all!  (No chance here: said from MNE which is amongst the worst in Europe.  😞 )

[Ausmumof3]

Kinda depressing all round numbers wise here today.

We have one new local case in my state from a fifo worker.  I think the only potential exposure is the flight because they had to quarantine on arrival anyway.

Qld had 5 cases source unknown but probably a new spillover from NSW.

Vic up to 450 🙁, 143 hospitalised, 34 in ICU

NSW still increasing at 1599. 8 deaths.

ACT 15 cases.

Looks like NZ was also slightly higher at 23 with 14 linked though @lewelmaprobably has better info. 
 

Pfizer is being made available to everyone over twelve including over 60s in SA as of Monday.

[lewelma]

45 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

 

Looks like NZ was also slightly higher at 23 with 14 linked though @lewelmaprobably has better info. 

They have said that there will be ups and downs here in the tail, and that these higher numbers were due to the day 5 and day 12 tests that were required from past locations of interest (5 and 12 days ago obviously). However, most of the people were identified a long time ago as close contacts and required to isolate until after a negative result from the day 12 test, so were not wandering around in the community. But keep in mind that Auckland is at level 4 lockdown, so even if some of these positive cases were in the community, they would have limited interaction with people (grocery store, chemist, medical care, and that's it) and all of them masked as is now required by law. No press conference today or tomorrow, so we will know more on Monday when they will also decide on Auckland's fate. . 

Edited September 11, 2021 by lewelma

[Ausmumof3]

2 hours ago, lewelma said:

They have said that there will be ups and downs here in the tail, and that these higher numbers were due to the day 5 and day 12 tests that were required from past locations of interest (5 and 12 days ago obviously). However, most of the people were identified a long time ago as close contacts and required to isolate until after a negative result from the day 12 test, so were not wandering around in the community. But keep in mind that Auckland is at level 4 lockdown, so even if some of these positive cases were in the community, they would have limited interaction with people (grocery store, chemist, medical care, and that's it) and all of them masked as is now required by law. No press conference today or tomorrow, so we will know more on Monday when they will also decide on Auckland's fate. . 

ACT has been similar although they don’t seem to have got rid of the last few cases.  I’m not sure how their lockdown compares.

[lewelma]

1 hour ago, Ausmumof3 said:

ACT has been similar although they don’t seem to have got rid of the last few cases.  I’m not sure how their lockdown compares.

My guess is that the long tail is going to be long, as in 2 months long. As for our lockdown, Level 4 lockdown means you cannot go to work, schools are closed, and essential workers include food and medical. Everything else is closed. Hopefully, on Monday, they will feel like things are under control enough for Auckland that they will begin the reopen to start Wednesday. This would allow tradies to go to work, and restaurant take aways. But not much else. Schools still closed, all people still working from home. The rest of NZ is out of lockdown, so it is pretty hard on Auckland. 

I've found the graphing site on stringency index comparing NZ to Australia to USA. We go harder, but for a shorter period of time.Then we have full freedoms. Our level 4 lockdown is supposed to be one of the strictest in the world. 

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/covid-stringency-index?tab=chart&country=AUS~NZL~USA

Edited September 11, 2021 by lewelma

[lewelma]

Summary from the guardian today on the NZ response. My impression is that we are very lucky to have 1) a government that is listening to the scientists, and 2) a government that can convince its people to agree to its policies. 3) the Pacifica Assembly of God community that is working hard to control the biggest cluster (half of the outbreak).

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/11/against-all-odds-how-new-zealand-is-bending-the-delta-curve

[Ausmumof3]

1 hour ago, lewelma said:

My guess is that the long tail is going to be long, as in 2 months long. As for our lockdown, Level 4 lockdown means you cannot go to work, schools are closed, and essential workers include food and medical. Everything else is closed. Hopefully, on Monday, they will feel like things are under control enough for Auckland that they will begin the reopen to start Wednesday. This would allow tradies to go to work, and restaurant take aways. But not much else. Schools still closed, all people still working from home. The rest of NZ is out of lockdown, so it is pretty hard on Auckland. 

I've found the graphing site on stringency index comparing NZ to Australia to USA. We go harder, but for a shorter period of time.Then we have full freedoms. Our level 4 lockdown is supposed to be one of the strictest in the world. 

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/covid-stringency-index?tab=chart&country=AUS~NZL~USA

It doesn’t really make sense to compare Australia as a country like that though because the lockdowns are different across the states.  

[Melissa in Australia]

yes,

 very different

[Ausmumof3]

Apparently our fully vaxed rate for over 60s in SA is only 40% right now!!! No wonder they’re offering Pfizer.  No way our hospitals will cope with an outbreak with that level of vaccination in the most at risk age groups. 

[lewelma]

9 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

It doesn’t really make sense to compare Australia as a country like that though because the lockdowns are different across the states.  

Fair. The stringency index for NZ has 3 humps that are 2/3rds height, which happened when only Auckland was in lockdown and the rest of the country was completely free (as in 40K person events still happening without masks). I just thought it was an interesting graph. 🙂

But I think that the biggest difference is just that NZ came second with its delta outbreak, so could learn from Australia's successes and failures. No government knows what will work until they try it, so being second was a massive advantage.