wuhan - coronavirus

[busymama7]

13 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

You would expect short term immunity to be strong thanks to antibodies but longer term as antibodies wane the T-cells wouldn’t be as effective and the virus would deplete then over the course of future infections.  I’m not sure how long natural immunity is lasting. Do we know that?  

 Not really. The big study that many are referring to recently only looked at recovered cases from Jan/Feb of 2021 and compared them to vaccination.  I've gone the rounds with stubborn people over this. It really didn't prove anything of significance but the naysayers are having a field day with it.  Preaching to get that natural immunity 😡

[Melissa Louise]

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/calls-for-national-school-ventilation-plan-more-details-on-booster-shots-to-protect-vulnerable-20210903-p58op1.html

For AU peeps

[Ausmumof3]

Bno: U.S. COVID update: More than 2,000 new deaths

- New cases: 191,655
- Average: 165,192 (-61)
- In hospital: 102,271 (-131)
- In ICU: 26,259 (+150)
- New deaths: 2,036

[Ausmumof3]

2 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/calls-for-national-school-ventilation-plan-more-details-on-booster-shots-to-protect-vulnerable-20210903-p58op1.html

For AU peeps

So happy to see talk of building ventilation in the media

[Ausmumof3]

183 cases for Vic today.

[Melissa Louise]

32 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

So happy to see talk of building ventilation in the media

Me too. 

Dept Ed fact sheet has stalled at 'open windows and doors where possible'. 

[Not_a_Number]

1 hour ago, busymama7 said:

 Not really. The big study that many are referring to recently only looked at recovered cases from Jan/Feb of 2021 and compared them to vaccination.  I've gone the rounds with stubborn people over this. It really didn't prove anything of significance but the naysayers are having a field day with it.  Preaching to get that natural immunity 😡

I thought it was interesting 🤷‍♀️. We were never going to figure out duration of natural immunity at this juncture, but it's comforting that it's effective for even that long.

[JennyD]

8 hours ago, Corraleno said:

 

AJ Leonardi is an immunologist at Johns Hopkins who has published in peer-review journals on immunology in general and T-cells in particular. A lot of what he writes is very technical and totally over my head, but basically he believes (along with other scientists) that SARS-CoV-2 has a superantigen — something that can simultaneously evade T-cells while also triggering them to attack other parts of the body. This theory could explain MIS-C, cytokine storms, and the auto-immune component of long covid.

He argues that the claim "we don't need boosters when antibodies wane, because we have T-cells for back up" is false when dealing with a virus that can not only evade T-cells but actually weaponize them. He says that antibodies are absolutely critical in fighting off SARS-CoV-2, because circulating antibodies can rapidly knock out the virus before it has a chance to create an army of confused T-cells that will attack the body instead of the virus. 

I haven't been able to find any scholarly articles addressing the question of whether subsequent infections would be worse, but I'm guessing the idea is that if the initial infection is allowed to get to the point where T-cells have already been "trained" to attack the body, then maybe subsequent infections can re-trigger that response? I don't know, I'd love to see an article written for nonscientists that explains the issues with superantigens in plain English.

 

This is very interesting, if alarming.

What is the theory why vaccinations seem to be working so incredibly well to keep people from getting really sick, though?  Is it just the antibodies?

This past week heard a presentation by the head of the biggest hospital system in my area.  He said that the covid patients in their hospitals are nearly all unvaccinated, and the vaccinated patients were mostly folks who are seriously immunosuppresssed (cancer patients, transplant recipients, etc).

 

Edited September 5, 2021 by JennyD

[busymama7]

2 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

I thought it was interesting 🤷‍♀️. We were never going to figure out duration of natural immunity at this juncture, but it's comforting that it's effective for even that long.

It is interesting and reassuring for those who have just recoverd.  I wasn't talking about anyone here. Just in real life who think we all just need to go get and get that natural immunity so we can have herd immunity.  

[Ausmumof3]

2 hours ago, JennyD said:

This is very interesting, if alarming.

What is the theory why vaccinations seem to be working so incredibly well to keep people from getting really sick, though?  Is it just the antibodies?

This past week heard a presentation by the head of the biggest hospital system in my area.  He said that the covid patients in their hospitals are nearly all unvaccinated, and the vaccinated patients were mostly folks who are seriously immunosuppresssed (cancer patients, transplant recipients, etc).

 

Yes antibodies are good just T cells aren’t once the antibodies wane.  Is the theory…

[Ausmumof3]

In case anyone needs to DIY an air filter.

[Danae]

I had some potential exposure so I decided to order one of the free tests through the state department of health.  They mail the kit, you have a video call with a tech during which you drool into a test tube and mail it back.

I was expecting not to get the kit until Wednesday, considering the holiday week-end, which would be about the right timing to test.

I just got an email that the testing company is now partnering with Door Dash, and to expect my delivery soon. 
 

I am vaguely unsettled by this development, and not sure why.

[SoCal_Bear]

Dr. Campbell last week on everyone should expect to get Covid.
 

 

[ktgrok]

5 minutes ago, calbear said:

Dr. Campbell last week on everyone should expect to get Covid.
 

 

Yup, I just want the kids to not get it until vaccinated, and I don't want it until I get a booster. 

[SoCal_Bear]

5 hours ago, ktgrok said:

Yup, I just want the kids to not get it until vaccinated, and I don't want it until I get a booster. 

I'm with you on that one. 

[RootAnn]

So, I saw an update to the Oklahoma ivermectin-overdose story that said "a" hospital refutes the doctor's story and that he hasn't worked there for two months. (Edited to reflect that only one hospital has issued a statement.)

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/gunshot-victims-horse-dewormer-ivermectin-oklahoma-hospitals-covid-1220608/

Was he passing along what he heard from collegues & there is a coverup going on? Or was it "fake news" all along? 

Such a weird story with the "gunshot victims" mention (as many here pointed out at the time).

Edited September 6, 2021 by RootAnn

[Ausmumof3]

1281 for NSW

246 for VIC

11 for ACT

0 for QLD

 

[Ausmumof3]

abc 
Booster shots are in the nation's future

ACT Chief Minister Andrew Barr says a booster vaccine program will rollout through 2022, and the vaccines for that program have already been acquired.

He said those who have had the AstraZeneca vaccine will be offered an mRNA vaccine (like Pfizer or Moderna) as a booster:

"The exact details I don't know today, but people will be advised, and there has been some discussion among health authorities in relation to those who have had the Astra Zeneca vaccine being able to have an mRNA booster, but that decision has not yet been informed by advisory groups such a ATAGI, and they will inform the nation in time," he said.

happy to see this!

[Not_a_Number]

16 hours ago, ktgrok said:

Yup, I just want the kids to not get it until vaccinated, and I don't want it until I get a booster. 

Same.

[ktgrok]

38 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

  17 hours ago, ktgrok said:

Yup, I just want the kids to not get it until vaccinated, and I don't want it until I get a booster. 

 

38 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Same.

And really - that doesn't seem like it should be such an unreasonable hope. I'm not saying I won't catch it, or never go back to living a reasonably normal life. Just that I'd like my kids to be vaccinated, and ideally my own vaccination at a good level of protection, when I catch it. 

Why is that so much to ask?

[Kakids]

5 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

 

And really - that doesn't seem like it should be such an unreasonable hope. I'm not saying I won't catch it, or never go back to living a reasonably normal life. Just that I'd like my kids to be vaccinated, and ideally my own vaccination at a good level of protection, when I catch it. 

Why is that so much to ask?

Because, everyone knows, everyone who wanted a vaccine already has it. It’s easy and simple for ANYONE who wanted the vaccine to get it. Everyone currently unvaccinated is that way by choice, so there is no reason for any precautions any longer.

 

If someone can direct me to one of these simple, easy to access vaccination locations, where ANYONE can get it, please let me know. We’d like to have all our family members vaccinated.

[Soror]

2 minutes ago, Kakids said:

Because, everyone knows, everyone who wanted a vaccine already has it. It’s easy and simple for ANYONE who wanted the vaccine to get it. Everyone currently unvaccinated is that way by choice, so there is no reason for any precautions any longer.

 

If someone can direct me to one of these simple, easy to access vaccination locations, where ANYONE can get it, please let me know. We’d like to have all our family members vaccinated.

In case this is a serious question (can't tell your tone). Try calling your local health department and local pharmacies. Our health department and pharmacies now all have shots and they aren't even doing appointments any more. I live in a rural area and it is very easy to find a location for a vaccine, they advertise often and have numerous hours. Our rate is still only 25%.

[Matryoshka]

5 minutes ago, Soror said:

In case this is a serious question (can't tell your tone). Try calling your local health department and local pharmacies. Our health department and pharmacies now all have shots and they aren't even doing appointments any more. I live in a rural area and it is very easy to find a location for a vaccine, they advertise often and have numerous hours. Our rate is still only 25%.

I have a feeling she's asking how the heck people can get their kids under 12 vaxxed, since they should be included when we say ANYONE.  

I don't have kids under 12 anymore, but I've also been wondering why the Covid precautions in schools for kids under 12 this year seem to be no different from those for the older kids who can be vaxxed.  It's some kind of magical thinking. 

[Soror]

Just now, Matryoshka said:

I have a feeling she's asking how the heck people can get their kids under 12 vaxxed, since they should be included when we say ANYONE.  

I don't have kids under 12 anymore, but I've also been wondering why the Covid precautions in schools for kids under 12 this year seem to be no different from those for the older kids who can be vaxxed.  It's some kind of magical thinking. 

Aha, maybe. 

[Dmmetler]

14 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

I have a feeling she's asking how the heck people can get their kids under 12 vaxxed, since they should be included when we say ANYONE.  

I don't have kids under 12 anymore, but I've also been wondering why the Covid precautions in schools for kids under 12 this year seem to be no different from those for the older kids who can be vaxxed.  It's some kind of magical thinking. 

I think it's from the "kids don't get COVID, or at least not bad COVID" from last year. The arguments for keeping kids home last fall were all about protecting vulnerable adults. Now, those adults are, or at least can be vaccinated, so the argument goes that restrictions now no longer help those adults, and aren't beneficial to kids. 

 

But, what we're seeing is that kids can, and do, get COVID, and some get very sick indeed, and some die. But there seems to be a lot of "not my kid" thinking. 

[Matryoshka]

5 minutes ago, Dmmetler said:

But, what we're seeing is that kids can, and do, get COVID, and some get very sick indeed, and some die. But there seems to be a lot of "not my kid" thinking. 

Well, exactly. Delta is a new beast, it is making many more kids sick themselves. And they are bringing it home, even to their vaxxed parents (another thing Delta has changed).

[Faith-manor]

11 minutes ago, Dmmetler said:

I think it's from the "kids don't get COVID, or at least not bad COVID" from last year. The arguments for keeping kids home last fall were all about protecting vulnerable adults. Now, those adults are, or at least can be vaccinated, so the argument goes that restrictions now no longer help those adults, and aren't beneficial to kids. 

 

But, what we're seeing is that kids can, and do, get COVID, and some get very sick indeed, and some die. But there seems to be a lot of "not my kid" thinking. 

Oh yes, we hear a ton of delusional "not my kid" thinking through social media. The head in the sans thinking is so disturbing!

[lewelma]

And just a little bit of good news in this otherwise miserable pandemic, NZ is lifting its lockdown tomorrow with the exception of Auckland. There have been 0 cases for 14 days everywhere but Auckland.

We will be at max gathering of 50 unless outside and then it is 100. And there is a mask mandate for all indoor venues except schools. Scanning in to indoor venues is now mandated rather than voluntary. All other activities are allowed with no restrictions.

Edited September 6, 2021 by lewelma

[bookbard]

So glad to hear about NZ. Not just for you guys, but it's another dig at certain Australian states who've decided that Delta meant there's no way lockdown could've worked (even though I believe there were earlier Delta cases that were shut down). It shows that a super early lockdown could have worked in NSW. 

I heard some guy on TV last night suggest we may be locked down all the way till Christmas, allowed to open up for Christmas itself, and then shut down again. That was pretty - confronting. But I'm not sure if the guy was an epidemiologist or politician, so who knows. I guess everything depends on how the hospitals cope over the next few months. 

[lewelma]

48 minutes ago, bookbard said:

So glad to hear about NZ. Not just for you guys, but it's another dig at certain Australian states who've decided that Delta meant there's no way lockdown could've worked

They are pretty confident that they can eliminate delta in Auckland, but there certainly is still risk. There is also risk at the border from Auckland to the rest of NZ. Essential workers (like drivers) that have to cross the border are being required to test weekly, but there are about 3000 of them, and it only takes one. Keep in mind that this outbreak of 800+ cases was due to ONE person wandering around the city for ONE week. Clearly there were some super spreader events, but that is seriously still a LOT of spread from a single person in 7 days. So if that happens with a border worker, we could have a mess outside of Auckland pretty quickly. 

Our vaccination rate is majorly fast as in 10% of the population per week which they have said is the fastest seen anywhere in the world, but we are out of vaccine in 8 days unless they can get an extra shipment. The surge in interest means that they have a 2 week gap in supply. If it comes to it, they will take from the rest of the country and send everything we have to Auckland.

Edited September 6, 2021 by lewelma

[lewelma]

So press conference today said that of the 20 cases yesterday, 16 were household contacts (8 from one family) and already isolating, and 4 had been in the community. But because Auckland is at level 4 lockdown, they had to be wearing masks, and there was no where to go but the grocery store. So the government is really hammering this thing down fast given that the total is 840 cases and we are only on day 19. 

It also appears that they have secured more vaccine to patch the 2 week gap. They are going door to door in some regions. They won't name a figure, but some health commentators are saying 85-90% is the likely goal.

Edited September 7, 2021 by lewelma

[Corraleno]

Really interesting and very detailed article in Science looking at all the evidence for and against a natural vs lab-leak origin of SARS2. The two bits I found most interesting:

(1) The WHO report claimed there was no evidence of live animals being sold at the Huunan markets in 2019. The truth is that no live animals were sold legally  — researchers who were investigating tick-borne diseases in the area recorded nearly 50,000 animals, of 38 different species, being sold at 17 different shops there between May and November 2019. However none of shops had legal permits to sell live animals. These researchers sent a draft of their paper to WHO, but a scientist there admitted she had "mistakenly ignored" it.

(2) In May, Nobel laureate David Baltimore was quoted in The NY Times as saying that the existence of a furin cleavage site on the SARS2 virus was the "smoking gun" that proved the lab leak theory, because no other related coronavirus has this. Unfortunately he was totally wrong about that — there are several other related coronaviruses with furin cleavage sites and there are even intermediate forms that have most of the building blocks to create it, indicating that this has evolved multiple times. He walked back his statement in June, saying he was unaware that there were similar coronaviruses with furin cleavage sites. But the damage was already done and his false statement is still widely cited by lab-leak proponents as proof they were right.

 

[prairiewindmomma]

On 9/6/2021 at 5:56 AM, Kakids said:

 

If someone can direct me to one of these simple, easy to access vaccination locations, where ANYONE can get it, please let me know. We’d like to have all our family members vaccinated.

Vaccinefinder is a reliable listing. Details are given in the listings by me as to whether documentation is needed or insurance is required.

I know here they have been hosting lots of multilingual/immigrant community clinics where they are going out by mobile van to people. I know that isn’t the case everywhere, but there are options.

[prairiewindmomma]

I talked with my ICU nurse neighbor tonight. I hadn’t seen her in a while. They have mobile morgues parked in the parking lot now, triage tents in the parking lot and have been full up for weeks. She used to work hospice and says these deaths are way worse and taking a harder toll. She said the PPE and medical end of things is hard, but her patients are mean and angry. 
 

Take that x all of the other HCW friends I have and it seems all of my US friends and family feel the same. Hugs, y’all. You are carrying a heavy load that is so heartbreakingly largely preventable. I wish I could send you all pizza, a 6pack, and a week’s vacation.

[Spryte]

1 minute ago, prairiewindmomma said:

I talked with my ICU nurse neighbor tonight. I hadn’t seen her in a while. They have mobile morgues parked in the parking lot now, triage tents in the parking lot and have been full up for weeks. She used to work hospice and says these deaths are way worse and taking a harder toll. She said the PPE and medical end of things is hard, but her patients are mean and angry. 
 

Take that x all of the other HCW friends I have and it seems all of my US friends and family feel the same. Hugs, y’all. You are carrying a heavy load that is so heartbreakingly largely preventable. I wish I could send you all pizza, a 6pack, and a week’s vacation.

Her patients are “mean and angry.” That’s striking. And painfully sad.

 

[Ausmumof3]

1480 for NSW and 221 for Vic today.  NSW is looking at options for moving away from the hotel quarantine system once vax rates hit 70/80pc which I guess makes sense kind of (as much as any of what NSW has done makes sense anyway).  It doesn’t make sense to quarantine overseas arrivals anymore when you’re just as likely to be infected locally. Well, unless overseas develops a more vaccine-resistant variant comes in.

[Ausmumof3]

Regional Vic other than Shepparton are coming out of lockdown Friday.

[Jean in Newcastle]

55 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

I talked with my ICU nurse neighbor tonight. I hadn’t seen her in a while. They have mobile morgues parked in the parking lot now, triage tents in the parking lot and have been full up for weeks. She used to work hospice and says these deaths are way worse and taking a harder toll. She said the PPE and medical end of things is hard, but her patients are mean and angry. 
 

Take that x all of the other HCW friends I have and it seems all of my US friends and family feel the same. Hugs, y’all. You are carrying a heavy load that is so heartbreakingly largely preventable. I wish I could send you all pizza, a 6pack, and a week’s vacation.

And yet, as far as I can see, most are not mean and angry at the people who misled them to begin with.  Instead, they are angry at the people who are now trying to save their life. 

[prairiewindmomma]

I asked if she had had ivermectin overdoses on her caseload and she said yes. 

[KSera]

16 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

I asked if she had had ivermectin overdoses on her caseload and she said yes. 

Is this a good place to share the Ivermectin ad my dh sent me today? (One bleeped but obvious profanity at the very end.)

[prairiewindmomma]

14 minutes ago, KSera said:

Is this a good place to share the Ivermectin ad my dh sent me today? (One bleeped but obvious profanity at the very end.)

Thank you. That was therapeutic. My BIL is Team Ivermectin. It’s super hard when you have people in your circle of family/friends/acquaintances who…have strong opinions.

[Sneezyone]

On 9/6/2021 at 9:37 AM, Dmmetler said:

I think it's from the "kids don't get COVID, or at least not bad COVID" from last year. The arguments for keeping kids home last fall were all about protecting vulnerable adults. Now, those adults are, or at least can be vaccinated, so the argument goes that restrictions now no longer help those adults, and aren't beneficial to kids. 

 

But, what we're seeing is that kids can, and do, get COVID, and some get very sick indeed, and some die. But there seems to be a lot of "not my kid" thinking. 

Indeed. MyDad said this, repeatedly, during our visit. My older brother (vaxxed), whose long-lost daughter (a chiro) is now PG post-COVID infection but still unvaccinated, said the same. I had to disabuse them both WRT the risks to kids and PG women. They were both shocked.

Edited September 8, 2021 by Sneezyone

[Ausmumof3]

Interesting reading re origins etc.  I’m somewhat interested by the mention of humanised cells in mice in the lab though my knowledge is pretty limited as to what that means practically.  One of the theories of the local SARS vaccine researcher here was that the virus may not show evidence of engineering but does seem to show evidence of being pretty primed for human cells in a way that indicated it may have been existing in them for a while.  I may be misrepresenting his argument a bit as it’s ages since I’ve read it but the humanised cells in mice could kind of loosely fit with that theory?

I’m not super familiar with this source but it gets ranked mostly factual but left wing bias by the media bias 

[pinball]

On 9/5/2021 at 10:31 PM, RootAnn said:

So, I saw an update to the Oklahoma ivermectin-overdose story that said "a" hospital refutes the doctor's story and that he hasn't worked there for two months. (Edited to reflect that only one hospital has issued a statement.)

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/gunshot-victims-horse-dewormer-ivermectin-oklahoma-hospitals-covid-1220608/

Was he passing along what he heard from collegues & there is a coverup going on? Or was it "fake news" all along? 

Such a weird story with the "gunshot victims" mention (as many here pointed out at the time).

No one cares about the truth. Apparently, according to other posters, the WTM board knew from the jump that the story didn’t make sense. LOL (too bad no one from here told rolling stone, slate, Rachel Maddox, etc)

Ive since read the doctor said he was misquoted. So there’s a whole ‘nother spin.

[Corraleno]

2 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Interesting reading re origins etc.  I’m somewhat interested by the mention of humanised cells in mice in the lab though my knowledge is pretty limited as to what that means practically.  One of the theories of the local SARS vaccine researcher here was that the virus may not show evidence of engineering but does seem to show evidence of being pretty primed for human cells in a way that indicated it may have been existing in them for a while.  I may be misrepresenting his argument a bit as it’s ages since I’ve read it but the humanised cells in mice could kind of loosely fit with that theory?

I’m not super familiar with this source but it gets ranked mostly factual but left wing bias by the media bias 

I don't see anything in that article that would indicate gain-of-function experiments or anything else nefarious. SARS1 and MERS, which were known to come from bats, emerged in 2003 and 2012, respectively, so it's not surprising that in 2014 the US began funding research on the potential of other bat coronaviruses to infect humans, in order to better understand how these viruses work and help prevent future pandemics. Transgenic mice have been used in research on human diseases for decades, there's nothing unusual or nefarious about that either.

[Danae]

50 minutes ago, pinball said:

 

Ive since read the doctor said he was misquoted. So there’s a whole ‘nother spin.

I find that very easy to believe, as someone who’s been quoted in newspaper articles.  Reporters have a tendency to hear whatever you say in a way that supports the article they’ve decided to write. 

[Corraleno]

https://www.science.org/content/article/new-sars-cov-2-variants-have-changed-pandemic-what-will-virus-do-next?

Terrific article in Science explaining in plain English how the virus has evolved so far, as well as how and why and in what direction it may evolve in the future. I would encourage everyone to read it, but here are a few take-aways:

The fact that there are now billions of vaccinated and/or previously infected people puts pressure on the virus to develop immunity-evading capabilities, and the billions of unvaccinated and uninfected people provides exactly the reservoir the virus needs for immunity-evading mutations to develop.

The idea that viruses always evolve to be less severe is false. The most often cited example is the myxoma virus in rabbits, but milder strains only emerged after it had killed off 99% of the population of rabbits in Australia. (The most infectious period for SARS2 is before the person is even symptomatic, so the fact that some people die weeks later does not put any pressure on the virus to become less deadly.)

The Alpha variant is closest to the original Wuhan strain, which is why vaccines were highly effective against it. Delta is further away but still close enough that vaccines offer some protection. The variant that has evolved the furthest from the original strain is Beta, which is why vaccines have generally been the least effective against it. It was outcompeted by Delta because Delta is so much more transmissible, but in the future it’s likely that variants will evolve in the direction of increased immune escape. Antigenic map from the article:

Edited September 8, 2021 by Corraleno

[TCB]

1 minute ago, Danae said:

I find that very easy to believe, as someone who’s been quoted in newspaper articles.  Reporters have a tendency to hear whatever you say in a way that supports the article they’ve decided to write. 

My kids still remember how our small local newspaper quoted me as saying things I never actually said, when they did an article about a homeschooling event. I think it’s an all too common occurrence unfortunately.

[Jean in Newcastle]

The simple ivermectin take away is that it has never been proven to really help. (Slight improvements don’t necessarily mean anything since slight improvements aren’t enough and slight improvements can happen even without it.). The question is:  is it an effective medicine for either prevention of disease or the prevention of severe disease. So far, all research I have read says “no”. (People stating their unproven belief in its efficacy is not research.). 
 

The second take away is that judges are not medical doctors and should not be practicing medicine through the courts. (Though so far, even though the court had ok’d two weeks of ivermectin treatment, there was no big turnaround/medical break through in that time. ). Personal opinion here:  I am sad for the family that there wasn’t a lot of improvement in their family member. I understand how desperate they must feel. But from a medical standpoint, it is consistent with what was seen in the research- perhaps a small Improvement in some people but not enough to really make a difference. 
 

The third takeaway is that the family had other options including transferring their family member to a different hospital. 

[KSera]

1 hour ago, pinball said:

No one cares about the truth. Apparently, according to other posters, the WTM board knew from the jump that the story didn’t make sense. LOL (too bad no one from here told rolling stone, slate, Rachel Maddox, etc)

Apparently at least some people here on TWTM care about truth, because the comments/discussion about the story not making sense took place here (among people who largely think it’s dumb people are taking animal ivermectin and that people think ivermectin is their best shot for surviving Covid).