wuhan - coronavirus

[TCB]

15 minutes ago, ieta_cassiopeia said:

The statement here makes no sense. The point is to wear a mask correctly, and those particles that have got stuck are proof that there's a point to wearing one.

I agree that statement makes no sense and that was my point. That is an example of the endless craziness I hear from people around me. Just venting really. 

[BeachGal]

10 hours ago, mathnerd said:

https://www.insider.com/pfizer-ceo-vaccine-resistant-coronavius-variant-likely-2021-8

Pfizer CEO Albert Bourla told Fox News on Tuesday that he believed it was "likely" a vaccine-resistant coronavirus variant would eventually emerge. 

"We haven't identified any yet, but we believe that it is likely that one day, one of them will emerge."

If a vaccine-resistant variant were to emerge, Pfizer would be able to create a new vaccine quickly, within about 3 months or so.

Additionally, a number of second generation vaccines are in development now, some in trials. One is a pan-coronavirus vaccine that could protect against all coronaviruses. That will probably not be approved quickly but it’s in the works. Others include nasal mists and even oral vaccines.

We can’t rely solely on vaccines only, we also need to be able to quickly reduce viral load. Some are saying that 2022 is going to be the year we see many of these treatments. A few are already available in other countries. One OTC nitric oxide-inducing nasal spray is already in pharmacies in Israel. I’ve seen it on ebay. Other nasal sprays look good, too, and if my kids were younger, I’d consider them. Anyhoo, vaccines are still very important, but quite a few different treatments and even preventives should be hitting the market next year or even this year.

[Wheres Toto]

5 hours ago, ieta_cassiopeia said:

It was in the WHO explanation in April 2020 (I have a link to the current version, which cites Machinda et al's study of incorrect mask-wearing in Japan). (Also, for someone who's wearing a mask badly in these ways in an area where a properly-fitting mask would be protective, would be getting a combination of surface and air transmission. The incorrect wearing of the mask leads to an increase in viral load, both from increased air-to-surface transmission (e.g from excess touching of parts of the mask which have previously-airborne virus on them) and air transmission (e.g from "chin-masking", which does nothing to block incoming infected airflow since the mask is over the chin instead of the nose and mouth). Getting 1/10 of the amount needed to become ill from 10 sources in a short space of time would logically lead to a similar result to getting the whole amount needed to become ill from 1 source in the same timeframe.

A citation for bad mask-wearing being worse than no mask-wearing* at all is Gupta, Gupta and Gupta "The use of facemasks by the general population to prevent transmission of Covid 19 infection: A systematic review", though it does not appear that the WHO would have used that to justify its original position. Note that some of the research incorporated in that review is of medical-grade masks, which are more complicated to wear correctly than fabric masks.

* - The specific quote for proper mask-wearing is:

 

 

4 hours ago, ktgrok said:

 

I don't see how wearing the mask and touching it sometimes is worse than wearing the mask and touching the desk, doorknob, etc. It's not actually possible, unless you assume the ONLY thing they are touching is their mask AND assume that they touch their eyes/nose/mouth after touching the mask but would NOT be touching their eyes/nose/mouth without a mask on, which is silly. That said, i count wearing a mask under your chin as not wearing one. 

And of course, in April 2020 we thought the disease was mostly transmitted by surfaces. 

Katie responded for me.  🙂

 

[Melissa Louise]

Eek, just got phone call to say ex may have been exposed in dialysis ward. Waiting for nurse testing. 

[Ausmumof3]

80 cases in Vic

NT opened vaccinations for anyone over 12.

[Danae]

10 hours ago, ieta_cassiopeia said:

The Machinda study counted wearing a mask under the chin as wearing one improperly, which makes sense as it needed to differentiate between proper, improper, and non-mask wearing. Whereas you are considering the practical consequences of mask-wearing

That is unfortunate.  Wearing a mask under your chin is the same as having it in your pocket and it’s a shame that the study lumps that in with less-than-perfect but actually trying usage.  
 

I can see why, but it’s going to make the numbers useless for deciding if it’s worth it to mask kids, etc.

[ktgrok]

5 minutes ago, Danae said:

That is unfortunate.  Wearing a mask under your chin is the same as having it in your pocket and it’s a shame that the study lumps that in with less-than-perfect but actually trying usage.  
 

I can see why, but it’s going to make the numbers useless for deciding if it’s worth it to mask kids, etc.

exactly. Might as well use it as a head band or a sock. 

[Melissa in Australia]

11 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

https://amp.theage.com.au/national/victoria/victorian-students-top-naplan-results-despite-months-of-remote-learning-20210824-p58lcs.html?__twitter_impression=true
 

Not that I put a lot of faith in NAPLAN but this is a bit of bright news on a bleak day.  Victorian kids literacy and numeracy scores are up overall even with (or possibly because of) periods of online learning.

My twins psychologist , who works only with children under 18, said that she noticed that quite a lot of disengaged at school kids flourished with the online learning. 
Something that I am sure would not surprise homeschooling parents at all

[Ausmumof3]

QLD gov have announced they are building a 1000-bed quarantine facility.  There’s quite a disparity between the federal GOV and NSW rhetoric of moving forward and this very solid evidence of the expectation that quarantining arrivals will be more long term.  

[Ausmumof3]

NSW passed the 1000 mark at 1029. Lockdown extended to 10th of September.  Feeling for you all over there.

[Ausmumof3]

Some slight relaxation of restrictions for fully vaccinated people in NSW

• For those who live outside the LGAs of concern, outdoor gatherings of up to five people (including children, all adults must be vaccinated) will be allowed in a person’s LGA or within 5km from home.

• For those who live in the LGAs of concern, households with all adults vaccinated will be able to gather outdoors for recreation (including picnics) within the existing rules (for one hour only, outside curfew hours and within 5km of home). This is in addition to the one hour allowed for exercise

[Melissa Louise]

35 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Some slight relaxation of restrictions for fully vaccinated people in NSW

• For those who live outside the LGAs of concern, outdoor gatherings of up to five people (including children, all adults must be vaccinated) will be allowed in a person’s LGA or within 5km from home.

• For those who live in the LGAs of concern, households with all adults vaccinated will be able to gather outdoors for recreation (including picnics) within the existing rules (for one hour only, outside curfew hours and within 5km of home). This is in addition to the one hour allowed for exercise

Thanks for precis-ing this so I can avoid the news. This is bizarre - a thousand cases and rising, but I can have a 60 min picnic. I can't even. I really can't. 

[Melissa in Australia]

Hugs Melissa,

 I didn’t want to like your post but wanted to send hugs.

[Melissa Louise]

I'm pretty worried about how hospitals are going to manage. Not from the pov of beds (though that too) but staffing. All NSW public hospitals are chronically under-staffed in normal times. How will they manage with thousands of Covid cases every day? I'm worried about what's going to happen to non-Covid care - transplants, for example, have been halted - but also rationing of Covid care. Why are they doing this??!!

[Melissa Louise]

Oh, the return to school plan comes tomorrow! Super! Maybe we are going to picnic with our students. Gladys says there's a plan to make it safe. I'd love to ******* know what magic they've got to make school safe in the middle of a barely controlled Delta outbreak. 

I'm devastated. The Liberal Party is prepared to ruin this state, and for what? 

[Melissa in Australia]

2 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

Oh, the return to school plan comes tomorrow! Super! Maybe we are going to picnic with our students. Gladys says there's a plan to make it safe. I'd love to ******* know what magic they've got to make school safe in the middle of a barely controlled Delta outbreak. 

I'm devastated. The Liberal Party is prepared to ruin this state, and for what? 

probably because they want to go on a holiday overseas and want the border opened so they can come back

[Melissa Louise]

2 minutes ago, Melissa in Australia said:

probably because they want to go on a holiday overseas and want the border opened so they can come back

Probably. 

[lewelma]

Numbers are starting to plateau. They are cautiously optimistic. 68 today and 61 yesterday.  And of the 61 yesterday, 37 were household contacts and 24 were community transfer. But importantly, they said today that there are currently NO cases that have been caught in the community *after* lockdown began. I was like WOW. 

And of the 500 places of interest and 24000 close contacts, only 13 locations have had cases transmitted. This shows me that they have been extremely cautious and have spread the net wide to find every single last case. 

[Ausmumof3]

What do we think about speculation that Astra Zeneca may give longer lasting immunity than the MRNA vaccines?  Would you be more likely to risk the blood clot issue of it meant not needing six monthly or sooner booster shots? How much longer would immunity have to last to make it worthwhile?

[Melissa in Australia]

25 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

What do we think about speculation that Astra Zeneca may give longer lasting immunity than the MRNA vaccines?  Would you be more likely to risk the blood clot issue of it meant not needing six monthly or sooner booster shots? How much longer would immunity have to last to make it worthwhile?

Saw on the news that just about all of Europe has stopped Astra Zeneca use because of blood clots

[Laura Corin]

2 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

What do we think about speculation that Astra Zeneca may give longer lasting immunity than the MRNA vaccines?  Would you be more likely to risk the blood clot issue of it meant not needing six monthly or sooner booster shots? How much longer would immunity have to last to make it worthwhile?

One large study showed that but others show Pfizer and AZ declining in lockstep. Minute 18 onwards of this webinar addresses it.

 

Edited August 26, 2021 by Laura Corin

[KSera]

On 8/24/2021 at 6:31 PM, Not_a_Number said:

I think given Delta, masking is kind of like using a tissue for birth control instead of a condom... I mean, it's POSSIBLE it'll make a difference, but it's going to be wildly inadequate given the viral load likely to be occurring within the schools. 

I'm totally, totally not comfortable with being indoors with people right now because Delta is so contagious, but I did read something today that summarized several recent studies that did make me feel better about my (vaccinated) college kids returning to their fully masked, vaccine mandated schools. It showed a dramatic difference with universal masking even with Delta. One recently published in Nature found a 75% reduction in infections with 80% of people wearing masks. That's way better that what I would expect from a tissue used in place of a condom   This is the full substack article that summarizes some of the data:

https://emilysmith.substack.com/schools-and-churches-heres-the-data

 

 

23 hours ago, lewelma said:

I think given Delta, masking is kind of like using a tissue for birth control instead of a condom... I mean, it's POSSIBLE it'll make a difference, but it's going to be wildly inadequate given the viral load likely to be occurring within the schools. 

 

Super impressive.

[Melissa Louise]

People here are apparently dying at home 'under the care of' the local health service. Are they just deteriorating incredibly rapidly? Not presenting to hospital? Or being discouraged from taking up a bed? People in their 30's. Scary. 

[Ausmumof3]

25 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

People here are apparently dying at home 'under the care of' the local health service. Are they just deteriorating incredibly rapidly? Not presenting to hospital? Or being discouraged from taking up a bed? People in their 30's. Scary. 

I wonder if they are monitoring oxygen levels like many in the US seem to be?

[TravelingChris]

On 8/24/2021 at 3:45 PM, Melissa in Australia said:

Or perhaps more of the population in Australia is interested in working together  and trying to eliminate this thing.

We moved around much more than Australians here back in Dec-Mid March 2020 so it was already so widespread in the US but our testing was almost non-existent then.  There was absolutely no way that in our country-which has a population of more than 10x Australia's and that has a gigantic immigrant problem (in July, we had over 225,000 people enter through border crossings without permission and who knows how many crossed with no accounting in our giant land borders, not counting all the people who come on VISA waivers and just stay or on VISAs and just stay.)  

 

[TravelingChris]

On 8/24/2021 at 6:46 PM, Melissa Louise said:

This is just so awful. Your poor friend. 

Oh we have had that too.  My son's fiancee's daughter is in a school that said that.  Fortunately, she was masked and apparently did not sit next to that child and did not get it.

[TravelingChris]

5 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

What do we think about speculation that Astra Zeneca may give longer lasting immunity than the MRNA vaccines?  Would you be more likely to risk the blood clot issue of it meant not needing six monthly or sooner booster shots? How much longer would immunity have to last to make it worthwhile?

NOt me.  I do get blood clots already.

[Melissa Louise]

2 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I wonder if they are monitoring oxygen levels like many in the US seem to be?

1500 ppl being monitored at home by daily SMS msg. 

I don't think so. 

Time to buy one?

[Ausmumof3]

18 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

1500 ppl being monitored at home by daily SMS msg. 

I don't think so. 

Time to buy one?

That’s what I’m wondering.  I haven’t yet.

[Rosie_0801]

1 hour ago, TravelingChris said:

We moved around much more than Australians here back in Dec-Mid March 2020 so it was already so widespread in the US but our testing was almost non-existent then.  There was absolutely no way that in our country-which has a population of more than 10x Australia's and that has a gigantic immigrant problem (in July, we had over 225,000 people enter through border crossings without permission and who knows how many crossed with no accounting in our giant land borders, not counting all the people who come on VISA waivers and just stay or on VISAs and just stay.)  

 

Plus we don't have to pay for tests.

[Ausmumof3]

1 hour ago, TravelingChris said:

NOt me.  I do get blood clots already.

yes that’s totally understandable.  I felt pretty terrible after the second Pfizer so having it every six months is bothering me a lot. If we can even get supplies for that.  So I’m hopeful that some of the later generation or different style vaccines are longer lasting or more broad  than MRNA.  Don’t get me wrong I’m extremely grateful to have had access to Pfizer when I did and wouldn’t make a different decision but definitely would prefer not to have to have six monthly boosters.

Edited August 26, 2021 by Ausmumof3

[Ausmumof3]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/08/26/covid-delta-variant-live-updates/
 

US hospitalisation reach 100,000 for the first time since Jan 

[Not_a_Number]

6 hours ago, KSera said:

I'm totally, totally not comfortable with being indoors with people right now because Delta is so contagious, but I did read something today that summarized several recent studies that did make me feel better about my (vaccinated) college kids returning to their fully masked, vaccine mandated schools. It showed a dramatic difference with universal masking even with Delta. One recently published in Nature found a 75% reduction in infections with 80% of people wearing masks. That's way better that what I would expect from a tissue used in place of a condom   This is the full substack article that summarizes some of the data:

https://emilysmith.substack.com/schools-and-churches-heres-the-data

This is not using a real study, though. This is a model: 

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-94960-5?fbclid=IwAR0WqAUL0KpjH9hJy2Wb1uKWC6p6idkDXk_8HrDXot3q8iJseYI2ORVOADk

I'll believe it when I see someone ACTUALLY compare what happens with a mask and without. I am sure I was exaggerating there (I feel quite frustrated!), but having seen how people wear masks, it would really surprise me if masks in school would make enough of a difference. People have to take masks off to eat. People's masks slide down past their noses. People are indoors the whole day. 

Basically, I imagine that masks will mean that it takes a few weeks longer for everyone to get Delta, not that we manage to keep transmissions controllable. I hope I'm wrong, I do. But that's my current sense. 

[Ausmumof3]

10 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

This is not using a real study, though. This is a model: 

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-94960-5?fbclid=IwAR0WqAUL0KpjH9hJy2Wb1uKWC6p6idkDXk_8HrDXot3q8iJseYI2ORVOADk

I'll believe it when I see someone ACTUALLY compare what happens with a mask and without. I am sure I was exaggerating there (I feel quite frustrated!), but having seen how people wear masks, it would really surprise me if masks in school would make enough of a difference. People have to take masks off to eat. People's masks slide down past their noses. People are indoors the whole day. 

Basically, I imagine that masks will mean that it takes a few weeks longer for everyone to get Delta, not that we manage to keep transmissions controllable. I hope I'm wrong, I do. But that's my current sense. 

I agree.  I have to be honest my mask feels kind of ineffective when I’m in a small room for several hours with people.  For half an hour or an hour it might be ok but feels like the concentration of germs after 4-5 hours is too high for it to really work.  Don’t get me wrong I still think it’s worth it for the occasional contract risks just not where a pool of people are together all day.

[Not_a_Number]

6 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I agree.  I have to be honest my mask feels kind of ineffective when I’m in a small room for several hours with people.  For half an hour or an hour it might be ok but feels like the concentration of germs after 4-5 hours is too high for it to really work.  Don’t get me wrong I still think it’s worth it for the occasional contract risks just not where a pool of people are together all day.

Exactly. I mean, if everyone had their mask taped their face and no one ever ate or drank and everyone was super rigorous, then maybe it’d be enough. But we’re talking real-life use with a variant with extremely high viral loads.

We’re currently masking in crowds outdoors. I figure the masks will help if there’s a stray cloud of virus or something. I just don’t trust them in a room where the particles have been building up.

Edited August 26, 2021 by Not_a_Number

[Wheres Toto]

20 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Exactly. I mean, if everyone had their mask taped their face and no one ever ate or drank and everyone was super rigorous, then maybe it’d be enough. But we’re talking real-life use with a variant with extremely high viral loads.

We’re currently masking in crowds outdoors. I figure the masks will help if there’s a stray cloud of virus or something. I just don’t trust them in a room where the particles have been building up.

How about in a room with air purifiers running full speed?

I feel like we knew masks helped with the previous variants.  It seemed clear they made a difference in places with mandates versus those without.  I think we still just don't know with Delta.  They may still help quite a bit.

[ktgrok]

46 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I agree.  I have to be honest my mask feels kind of ineffective when I’m in a small room for several hours with people.  For half an hour or an hour it might be ok but feels like the concentration of germs after 4-5 hours is too high for it to really work.  Don’t get me wrong I still think it’s worth it for the occasional contract risks just not where a pool of people are together all day.

But again, that's not what the mask is supposed to do - to protect you. The main point is it is supposed to keep your respiratory droplets from infecting others. That's why it has to be universal masking, not just individuals. 

[TravelingChris]

2 hours ago, Rosie_0801 said:

Plus we don't have to pay for tests.

We don't either in many cases.  However, our problem w tests was that the first tests the CDC got in Jan-Mid March 2020 were badly manufactured and totally unreliable.  And the few reliable tests were being used on the coasts as if people travelling from China, UK, Italy, etc only ever go to certain cities on the coasts.  Yes, areas like NYC and Seattle area got it bad then but lots of places had lots of deaths and cases by mid March and the spread continued.  And then came Delta.

[TravelingChris]

2 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/08/26/covid-delta-variant-live-updates/
 

US hospitalisation reach 100,000 for the first time since Jan 

Not just Covid now.  Dd2 had to go to ER on Wednesday night because her breathing was getting very bad.  Had a third or fourth Covid test, xrays were completely clear, and they did bloid tests too. Let her govw wrong prescription for prednisone, because at 3am and being sick, she didn't realize that she had been on Medrol where z 4 mg pill is equivalent to a 7.5 Prednisone dose 

Her fiancee is driving her up here today to see her allergist/immunologist who takes care of her asthma.  She needs her to certify sickness to her work so she gets short term disability and to give her a longer, slower steroid step-down. I don't know if they tested her for RSV or flu.

But people are showing up w other viruses now too and some are hospitalized.  Plus we have on many US cities z gigantic increase in violent crimes that cause victims to need treatment too.

[Ausmumof3]

1 hour ago, ktgrok said:

But again, that's not what the mask is supposed to do - to protect you. The main point is it is supposed to keep your respiratory droplets from infecting others. That's why it has to be universal masking, not just individuals. 

Don’t get me wrong I don’t think their completely pointless.  They are going to protect against droplets and they’ll slow things down.  But where masks leak around the sides and top etc a few aerosols are escaping and over a full school day concentration can build up and particularly with higher viral load with delta that will likely happen faster. Masks are still going to help in situations where people are there for a short period of time. 

[Ausmumof3]

1 minute ago, TravelingChris said:

Not just Covid now.  Dd2 had to go to ER on Wednesday night because her breathing was getting very bad.  Had a third or fourth Covid test, xrays were completely clear, and they did bloid tests too. Let her govw wrong prescription for prednisone, because at 3am and being sick, she didn't realize that she had been on Medrol where z 4 mg pill is equivalent to a 7.5 Prednisone dose 

Her fiancee is driving her up here today to see her allergist/immunologist who takes care of her asthma.  She needs her to certify sickness to her work so she gets short term disability and to give her a longer, slower steroid step-down. I don't know if they tested her for RSV or flu.

But people are showing up w other viruses now too and some are hospitalized.  Plus we have on many US cities z gigantic increase in violent crimes that cause victims to need treatment too.

RSV is high this year.  That’s disappointing about the crime.  Our hospitals have a ramping issue here even without COVID - it’s going to be an absolute debacle when Covid gets going. 

[Not_a_Number]

32 minutes ago, TravelingChris said:

Not just Covid now.  Dd2 had to go to ER on Wednesday night because her breathing was getting very bad.  Had a third or fourth Covid test, xrays were completely clear, and they did bloid tests too. Let her govw wrong prescription for prednisone, because at 3am and being sick, she didn't realize that she had been on Medrol where z 4 mg pill is equivalent to a 7.5 Prednisone dose 

Her fiancee is driving her up here today to see her allergist/immunologist who takes care of her asthma.  She needs her to certify sickness to her work so she gets short term disability and to give her a longer, slower steroid step-down. I don't know if they tested her for RSV or flu.

But people are showing up w other viruses now too and some are hospitalized.  Plus we have on many US cities z gigantic increase in violent crimes that cause victims to need treatment too.

This stat is just for COVID, though.

[Not_a_Number]

2 hours ago, Wheres Toto said:

How about in a room with air purifiers running full speed?

I feel like we knew masks helped with the previous variants.  It seemed clear they made a difference in places with mandates versus those without.  I think we still just don't know with Delta.  They may still help quite a bit.

I have no idea. I’m sure it’s better than nothing. I’d guess that it’s not good enough. But what do I know?

[Corraleno]

1 hour ago, TravelingChris said:

Not just Covid now.  Dd2 had to go to ER on Wednesday night because her breathing was getting very bad.  Had a third or fourth Covid test, xrays were completely clear, and they did bloid tests too. Let her govw wrong prescription for prednisone, because at 3am and being sick, she didn't realize that she had been on Medrol where z 4 mg pill is equivalent to a 7.5 Prednisone dose 

Her fiancee is driving her up here today to see her allergist/immunologist who takes care of her asthma.  She needs her to certify sickness to her work so she gets short term disability and to give her a longer, slower steroid step-down. I don't know if they tested her for RSV or flu.

But people are showing up w other viruses now too and some are hospitalized.  Plus we have on many US cities z gigantic increase in violent crimes that cause victims to need treatment too.

It's 100K just with covid, not counting other causes:

"More than 100,000 people are hospitalized with covid-19 in the United States, a level not seen since Jan. 30 — when coronavirus vaccines were not widely available — as the country grapples with the delta variant’s spread.

Hospitalizations are highest across the South, where every state in the region has a higher portion of its population currently hospitalized with covid-19 than the national level, according to a Washington Post database. More than 17,000 people are hospitalized with covid-19 in Florida, which has the most hospitalizations for covid-19 of any state in the country, followed by Texas, which has more than 14,000."

[ktgrok]

1 hour ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Don’t get me wrong I don’t think their completely pointless.  They are going to protect against droplets and they’ll slow things down.  But where masks leak around the sides and top etc a few aerosols are escaping and over a full school day concentration can build up and particularly with higher viral load with delta that will likely happen faster. Masks are still going to help in situations where people are there for a short period of time. 

Oh, totally agree. But where people have to be in a room together, it's better than nothing. 

[KSera]

7 hours ago, Melissa Louise said:

People here are apparently dying at home 'under the care of' the local health service. Are they just deteriorating incredibly rapidly? Not presenting to hospital? Or being discouraged from taking up a bed? People in their 30's. Scary. 

I saw that, but couldn’t find any details. Very concerning. 

4 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

This is not using a real study, though. This is a model: 

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-94960-5?fbclid=IwAR0WqAUL0KpjH9hJy2Wb1uKWC6p6idkDXk_8HrDXot3q8iJseYI2ORVOADk

I'll believe it when I see someone ACTUALLY compare what happens with a mask and without. I am sure I was exaggerating there (I feel quite frustrated!), but having seen how people wear masks, it would really surprise me if masks in school would make enough of a difference. People have to take masks off to eat. People's masks slide down past their noses. People are indoors the whole day. 

Basically, I imagine that masks will mean that it takes a few weeks longer for everyone to get Delta, not that we manage to keep transmissions controllable. I hope I'm wrong, I do. But that's my current sense. 

I know that’s modeling. It’s hard to get a randomized study now because the evidence is strong enough that having a group not mask is unethical right now. There are a lot of real world analyses showing that places where universal masking in place are doing much better, but there will always be the argument of potential confounders, which I don’t think can be helped right now.

To me, the risk to people taking off their masks to eat in a room together isn’t an indictment of masks not working, it’s precisely showing that removing the masks is risky. I’d also like to see a continued encouragement to people to get and wear the best masks they can. I still can’t get over seeing people at this point in the pandemic with masks that keep falling down and needing to be pulled up that could clearly be fixed by shortening ear loops. Isn’t it just uncomfortable to have to keep fixing a mask like that? Shorten your ear loops! We need a PSA announcement about that. In my area though, I don’t see that much of that anymore. People are wearing better and better masks as time goes by. 

3 hours ago, Wheres Toto said:

How about in a room with air purifiers running full speed?

It seems to be about getting enough complete room air changes to keep virus from building up. If the air purifiers are sufficient, it seems very helpful. I’ve been reading both the recommendations from aerosol scientists and then comparing with what the schools my various loved ones will be attending are doing. Fortunately, all of them have had a detailed plan available for how they are addressing ventilation and air cleaning. I feel much better about kids going into an environment with everyone masked and 100% outdoor air coming through the HVAC to attain 6-8 complete air changes every hour. It might not be enough is someone is sitting right next to an infected kid their masks loosely worn, but I think it would do pretty well for people farther away, and for my own kids with their snug KF94s. They won’t be removing them inside to eat or drink. 

[Corraleno]

On a lighter note:

Dad strips at heated Texas school board meeting to make point on COVID mask mandate

The Dripping Springs Independent School District has a policy stating face masks are optional for the upcoming school year, according to the San Marcos Daily Record. At the beginning of an hours-long meeting on Monday, residents argued for and against adjusting that policy by enforcing stricter COVID-19 safety measures in classrooms.

When James Akers first approached the microphone for his allotted 90 seconds to speak before the board and the socially-distanced audience gathered in the auditorium, he was fully clothed. But that changed quickly.

“I do not like the government, or any other entity, telling me what to do,” Akers said while dressed in a jacket, pants, suit and tie. “But sometimes I’ve got to push the envelope a little bit. And I’ve decided I’m not just going to talk about it, I’m going to walk the walk.”

“At work they make me wear this jacket,” he said, pulling it off. “I hate it.”

“They make me wear this shirt and tie,” Akers continued. “I hate it.”

As he shed his clothes, Akers claimed he ran three stop signs and four red lights on the way to the meeting, adding “I have every right to drive as fast as I want to.” Upon arriving, he parked in a handicap space, Akers said while taking off his undershirt and dropping his pants to the ground, earning cheers and jeers from the audience.

Two police officers moved near the microphone, apparently ready to escort Akers out if he dared to remove his last article of clothing — which many Dripping Springs residents say was a bathing suit.

The whole display was to prove a point, he said: red lights, like masks, may be inconvenient, but they also save lives. “It’s simple protocol, people. We follow certain rules. We follow certain rules for a very good reason,” Akers said.

Board president Barbara Stroud grabbed her gavel, hammering the boos and applause into silence, bringing the meeting back to order.“Mr. Akers I understand — I believe you’re a swimmer — but if you wouldn’t mind putting your pants back on for a comment, that would be appreciated,” Stroud said.

https://www.star-telegram.com/news/nation-world/national/article253734628.html?fbclid=IwAR3cxyub8nomnqzlqaRkk8KIxyyoPQni7RYzx2kbVSsAeh-HnZQTW0hFMTs

[Jean in Newcastle]

5 hours ago, Rosie_0801 said:

Plus we don't have to pay for tests.

We don’t either. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

8 hours ago, Melissa Louise said:

People here are apparently dying at home 'under the care of' the local health service. Are they just deteriorating incredibly rapidly? Not presenting to hospital? Or being discouraged from taking up a bed? People in their 30's. Scary. 

This was happening in the US in the early days. People didn’t realize how it could sneak up on them. Perhaps they still don’t in some areas. 

[Shoeless]

4 hours ago, Corraleno said:

On a lighter note:

Dad strips at heated Texas school board meeting to make point on COVID mask mandate

The Dripping Springs Independent School District has a policy stating face masks are optional for the upcoming school year, according to the San Marcos Daily Record. At the beginning of an hours-long meeting on Monday, residents argued for and against adjusting that policy by enforcing stricter COVID-19 safety measures in classrooms.

When James Akers first approached the microphone for his allotted 90 seconds to speak before the board and the socially-distanced audience gathered in the auditorium, he was fully clothed. But that changed quickly.

“I do not like the government, or any other entity, telling me what to do,” Akers said while dressed in a jacket, pants, suit and tie. “But sometimes I’ve got to push the envelope a little bit. And I’ve decided I’m not just going to talk about it, I’m going to walk the walk.”

“At work they make me wear this jacket,” he said, pulling it off. “I hate it.”

“They make me wear this shirt and tie,” Akers continued. “I hate it.”

As he shed his clothes, Akers claimed he ran three stop signs and four red lights on the way to the meeting, adding “I have every right to drive as fast as I want to.” Upon arriving, he parked in a handicap space, Akers said while taking off his undershirt and dropping his pants to the ground, earning cheers and jeers from the audience.

Two police officers moved near the microphone, apparently ready to escort Akers out if he dared to remove his last article of clothing — which many Dripping Springs residents say was a bathing suit.

The whole display was to prove a point, he said: red lights, like masks, may be inconvenient, but they also save lives. “It’s simple protocol, people. We follow certain rules. We follow certain rules for a very good reason,” Akers said.

Board president Barbara Stroud grabbed her gavel, hammering the boos and applause into silence, bringing the meeting back to order.“Mr. Akers I understand — I believe you’re a swimmer — but if you wouldn’t mind putting your pants back on for a comment, that would be appreciated,” Stroud said.

https://www.star-telegram.com/news/nation-world/national/article253734628.html?fbclid=IwAR3cxyub8nomnqzlqaRkk8KIxyyoPQni7RYzx2kbVSsAeh-HnZQTW0hFMTs

Oh boy, that's not all that far from me. 

This place is so exhausting.