wuhan - coronavirus

[Ausmumof3]

1 minute ago, Rosie_0801 said:

Optimistic fellow.

Wonder what would happen if the media changed its language from "harshest" to "best." Y'know, like from "king hit" to "coward's punch."

Huh interesting point!  

[Melissa Louise]

Just now, Ausmumof3 said:

Norman Swan said yesterday that there’s no evidence that it’s more severe but they catch and spread it more easily.  So if you have a larger number of cases in children the very small percentage that become serious cases will be larger than in the first round when we didn’t have many cases in kids. I think he did a think on health report on it as well but definitely one on the podcast.

Yes, that's what I thought. 

So probably the risk is greatest to those children with underlying conditions. I have a student whose diabetes care I do at school, and I can't see it being good for him to be at school if he's in a transmission soup. 

[Melissa Louise]

Just now, Ausmumof3 said:

Yep.  Please take it is frustration with Gladys (and Scomo) not with the people dealing with the repercussion.  Plus although ours have been harsh they’ve been short enough not to matter much after the first one.  I feel for people in both Melbourne and Vic dealing with it all over again.

I do too, because DD is going through it all again ( though doing well, thank goodness).

But I feel like the animus to Gladys really spills out to us. This idea that we are the baddies to Melbourne's good citizens - it's quite offensive. We're all people, all subject to the same financial, psychological and social pressures. 

I see comments in The Guardian like 'just nuke Sydney' and 'get used to never seeing yr interstate family again haha' and it's not actually very funny. 

I wish the ABC would point out there are two boats in this city, and the one doing it tough DO have a harsh lockdown and didn't - in the main - vote Gladys and her lot in. 

[Ausmumof3]

1 minute ago, Melissa Louise said:

Yes, that's what I thought. 

So probably the risk is greatest to those children with underlying conditions. I have a student whose diabetes care I do at school, and I can't see it being good for him to be at school if he's in a transmission soup. 

I think there are certainly cases that have hit hard at kids without underlying conditions.  Also I’ve heard of dual infection scenarios (like COVID plus strep or Covid plus RSV) that turned out badly in previously healthy kids.

I do think it’s inevitable that if we open up before kids are able to be vaccinated some kids will die.  Many kids will deal with long COVID.  As a percentage small, yes.  Still horrible.  

[Melissa Louise]

The majority of parents will accept a high (comparatively) death rate, because a. They don't believe it will be their child and b. Our entire economy is reliant on the childcare school provides.

Parents are champing at the bit to get kids back in school. Not all - but a big %

[Ausmumof3]

10 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

I do too, because DD is going through it all again ( though doing well, thank goodness).

But I feel like the animus to Gladys really spills out to us. This idea that we are the baddies to Melbourne's good citizens - it's quite offensive. We're all people, all subject to the same financial, psychological and social pressures. 

I see comments in The Guardian like 'just nuke Sydney' and 'get used to never seeing yr interstate family again haha' and it's not actually very funny. 

I wish the ABC would point out there are two boats in this city, and the one doing it tough DO have a harsh lockdown and didn't - in the main - vote Gladys and her lot in. 

 

We aren’t very good as a nation at separating between offical policies we don’t like and individuals living under them.  Same as the whole Asian hate thing at the start of the pandemic.

I think it’s probably fear and frustration because we don’t have any say in how it’s handled but it will impact us anyway.  Ultimately if NSW let it run it will take the country down.

 

[Melissa Louise]

2 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

 

We aren’t very good as a nation at separating between offical policies we don’t like and individuals living under them.  Same as the whole Asian hate thing at the start of the pandemic.

I think it’s probably fear and frustration because we don’t have any say in how it’s handled but it will impact us anyway.  Ultimately if NSW let it run it will take the country down.

 

Yeah, I don't have any say in how it's handled either, despite living here. It's not as if most of us were thumbing our noses at every other state and having parties at Bunnings. Idk. 

[ktgrok]

Some doctors are saying it seems to be hitting kids harder than last round, but it's hard to know. But yes, supposedly the hospitalization rate is double what it was with earlier variants - I think it was a province in Canada that found that. 

[Melissa Louise]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.smh.com.au/politics/federal/voters-back-national-vaccination-targets-to-ease-restrictions-20210824-p58lk5.html

Unfortunately, we're in the minority, ladies. 64% back Federal plan in NSW, 61% in VIC. 

27% of people think it's possible to return to complete suppression. 62% of voters think rules should be relaxed at 70/80% full vaccination. 

Morrison gov up in polls, Labor falling. 

Not only are we headed to national opening up, we are headed to an election next year, which the Coalition will likely win. 

 

 

[ktgrok]

A friend just got an email a kid in her son's class tested positive. BUT....don't do anything yet, wait for the department of health to contact trace. So the school can't tell her if her kid was a close contact, she's supposed to wait - possibly several days - to find out. So whoever WAS a close contact will be in class - likely for several days - contagious before they get told to quarantine. Then THEIR close contacts will have to wait days to be told. 

Oh, but don't worry, the letter says, kids are seated 3 feet apart to distance them! Which would you know, be fantastic...if that was the actual distance recommended. 

It's a cluster. 

Oh, and her kid has an immune deficiency. But she's a single mom who needs to work. She can't afford to stay home waiting to find out IF her kid might be a close contact. She needs to save her time off for WHEN he's a close contact. 

[Melissa Louise]

Actually, the election in '22 is behind opening up. If the economy doesn't get back its rosy blush, how will the govt pork barrel their way to a win? 

[Melissa Louise]

1 minute ago, ktgrok said:

A friend just got an email a kid in her son's class tested positive. BUT....don't do anything yet, wait for the department of health to contact trace. So the school can't tell her if her kid was a close contact, she's supposed to wait - possibly several days - to find out. So whoever WAS a close contact will be in class - likely for several days - contagious before they get told to quarantine. Then THEIR close contacts will have to wait days to be told. 

Oh, but don't worry, the letter says, kids are seated 3 feet apart to distance them! Which would you know, be fantastic...if that was the actual distance recommended. 

It's a cluster. 

Oh, and her kid has an immune deficiency. But she's a single mom who needs to work. She can't afford to stay home waiting to find out IF her kid might be a close contact. She needs to save her time off for WHEN he's a close contact. 

This is just so awful. Your poor friend. 

[Dmmetler]

1 hour ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I think there are certainly cases that have hit hard at kids without underlying conditions.  Also I’ve heard of dual infection scenarios (like COVID plus strep or Covid plus RSV) that turned out badly in previously healthy kids.

I do think it’s inevitable that if we open up before kids are able to be vaccinated some kids will die.  Many kids will deal with long COVID.  As a percentage small, yes.  Still horrible.  

There have been several kids who have died in my region (About a quarter of the size of Sydney, for reference) in the last few weeks. I really hope NSW is able to exhibit better self control than the Southern US has....

[lewelma]

25 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

A friend just got an email a kid in her son's class tested positive. 

Well, we did a hard lockdown of the entire nation over 1 case. LOL. I think it is very hard to have to work with the policy of the governments if you don't agree with them.  On both sides, clearly. There is just so much turmoil throughout the world over this.

Edited August 25, 2021 by lewelma

[Melissa Louise]

11 minutes ago, Dmmetler said:

There have been several kids who have died in my region (About a quarter of the size of Sydney, for reference) in the last few weeks. I really hope NSW is able to exhibit better self control than the Southern US has....

It's not really about self control. 

I can be as self controlled as I like but if the state settings change, they change. And they have changed. 

I just want to know what to expect when back at work next term.

Looks like Covid rolling through, most kids mild, chance of some kids being really sick + breakthrough cases in vaccinated staff. Lots of learning disruptions. 

I'm mentally running through all my work spaces - most are well ventilated, one isn't. Gotta do something about that. 

[Dmmetler]

20 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

It's not really about self control. 

I can be as self controlled as I like but if the state settings change, they change. And they have changed. 

I just want to know what to expect when back at work next term.

Looks like Covid rolling through, most kids mild, chance of some kids being really sick + breakthrough cases in vaccinated staff. Lots of learning disruptions. 

I'm mentally running through all my work spaces - most are well ventilated, one isn't. Gotta do something about that. 

At least here, the government folks have caved as soon as anyone complains...sigh... 

[Melissa Louise]

9 minutes ago, Dmmetler said:

At least here, the government folks have caved as soon as anyone complains...sigh... 

This is top down and business lobby/political interests led. 

Nothing to do with ordinary people. 

[Rosie_0801]

1 hour ago, Melissa Louise said:

Actually, the election in '22 is behind opening up. If the economy doesn't get back its rosy blush, how will the govt pork barrel their way to a win? 

What's truth got to do, got to do, with it?  

/singing

[KSera]

1 hour ago, ktgrok said:

A friend just got an email a kid in her son's class tested positive. BUT....don't do anything yet, wait for the department of health to contact trace. So the school can't tell her if her kid was a close contact, she's supposed to wait - possibly several days - to find out. So whoever WAS a close contact will be in class - likely for several days - contagious before they get told to quarantine. Then THEIR close contacts will have to wait days to be told. 

Oh, but don't worry, the letter says, kids are seated 3 feet apart to distance them! Which would you know, be fantastic...if that was the actual distance recommended. 

It's a cluster. 

Oh, and her kid has an immune deficiency. But she's a single mom who needs to work. She can't afford to stay home waiting to find out IF her kid might be a close contact. She needs to save her time off for WHEN he's a close contact. 

Are they masking in the school? I don't have a handle on how many school districts in Florida went ahead with requiring masks anyway.

[RootAnn]

@ktgrokSchools in my state have their hands tied. They are not allowed to say (to parents) who has tested positive (if they know) vs who is isolating as a close contact. The health dept can't tell the school the info because our state is no longer under a state of emergency. It is covered under protected health info, supposedly. All this was discussed at a school board meeting last night before a vote about masking requirements. This is true whether it is measles, RSV, hand-foot-and-mouth disease, or covid. 

I actually don't know how much contact tracing is done locally due to manning issues. We were told to do our own contract tracing for awhile. No idea what the instructions are now.

Edited August 25, 2021 by RootAnn

[Not_a_Number]

1 hour ago, ktgrok said:

A friend just got an email a kid in her son's class tested positive. BUT....don't do anything yet, wait for the department of health to contact trace. So the school can't tell her if her kid was a close contact, she's supposed to wait - possibly several days - to find out. So whoever WAS a close contact will be in class - likely for several days - contagious before they get told to quarantine. Then THEIR close contacts will have to wait days to be told. 

Oh, but don't worry, the letter says, kids are seated 3 feet apart to distance them! Which would you know, be fantastic...if that was the actual distance recommended. 

It's a cluster. 

Oh, and her kid has an immune deficiency. But she's a single mom who needs to work. She can't afford to stay home waiting to find out IF her kid might be a close contact. She needs to save her time off for WHEN he's a close contact. 

Oh, goodness. That's terrible 😕 . 

[ktgrok]

31 minutes ago, KSera said:

Are they masking in the school? I don't have a handle on how many school districts in Florida went ahead with requiring masks anyway.

No, she's in Palm Beach County. Masks are supposedly required but kids can opt out with a parent note. And there are unmasked kids in her kid's classroom. 

Only 3, now 4, counties have a real mask mandate, with the only opt out being a medical note. That was Broward, Alachua, Leon, and now as of this coming Monday, Orange. Wait...maybe Hillsborough too? 

[Not_a_Number]

32 minutes ago, KSera said:

Are they masking in the school? I don't have a handle on how many school districts in Florida went ahead with requiring masks anyway.

I think given Delta, masking is kind of like using a tissue for birth control instead of a condom... I mean, it's POSSIBLE it'll make a difference, but it's going to be wildly inadequate given the viral load likely to be occurring within the schools. 

[ktgrok]

Just now, Not_a_Number said:

I think given Delta, masking is kind of like using a tissue for birth control instead of a condom... I mean, it's POSSIBLE it'll make a difference, but it's going to be wildly inadequate given the viral load likely to be occurring within the schools. 

But better than not masking. 

[Not_a_Number]

2 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

But better than not masking. 

Oh, sure. But I wouldn't trust it. 

[Melissa in Australia]

numbers for today

Vic 45 

NSW 919

 

NZ 62

[ktgrok]

13 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Oh, sure. But I wouldn't trust it. 

Me either. But for working parents, it is the best they have. 

[Not_a_Number]

10 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

Me either. But for working parents, it is the best they have. 

Look, I had to arrange an entirely an online and outdoor year last spring. If I had my kid in school, I would have worked out how to get a pod or something this year. I know that's not an option for everyone, so I appreciate the issue, but I do think we've been downplaying how much of a disaster this is hurtling towards. 

[ktgrok]

10 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Look, I had to arrange an entirely an online and outdoor year last spring. If I had my kid in school, I would have worked out how to get a pod or something this year. I know that's not an option for everyone, so I appreciate the issue, but I do think we've been downplaying how much of a disaster this is hurtling towards. 

Well, I don't think I have, lol. I won't let me kids even go outside with kids that are public school. And I think the schools should have done pods, with siblings together, utilized other buildings to space peopel out, etc etc. I'm just staying that for some families, they can't afford anything that isn't free, and given that the schools are doing nothing else, universal masking is better than NOT having a mask mandate, which is the case in many counties here, and was the case here until tonight. 

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, ktgrok said:

Well, I don't think I have, lol. I won't let me kids even go outside with kids that are public school. And I think the schools should have done pods, with siblings together, utilized other buildings to space peopel out, etc etc. I'm just staying that for some families, they can't afford anything that isn't free, and given that the schools are doing nothing else, universal masking is better than NOT having a mask mandate, which is the case in many counties here, and was the case here until tonight. 

Oh, I'm really not arguing with you. They should make everyone mask as the very bare MINIMUM. 

[Danae]

A friend in Florida just said her school is going online for 3 days.

I'm really not sure what the point of that is.  Officially it's for "deep cleaning."  Which sounds like whoever's in charge hasn't paid attention to anything that's been learned about Covid spread in the last 18 months.

[ktgrok]

9 minutes ago, Danae said:

A friend in Florida just said her school is going online for 3 days.

I'm really not sure what the point of that is.  Officially it's for "deep cleaning."  Which sounds like whoever's in charge hasn't paid attention to anything that's been learned about Covid spread in the last 18 months.

YUP. My friend who got the letter also was told they would do extra cleaning. Whatever that means..I mean, either you are wiping down tables and doorknobs and crap or you aren't. What's extra?

[bookbard]

Yeah I don't get the deep cleaning thing. 

[Not_a_Number]

1 hour ago, bookbard said:

Yeah I don't get the deep cleaning thing. 

It's hygiene theater. 

[mathnerd]

https://www.insider.com/pfizer-ceo-vaccine-resistant-coronavius-variant-likely-2021-8

Pfizer CEO Albert Bourla told Fox News on Tuesday that he believed it was "likely" a vaccine-resistant coronavirus variant would eventually emerge. 

"We haven't identified any yet, but we believe that it is likely that one day, one of them will emerge."

[Ausmumof3]

2 hours ago, Melissa in Australia said:

numbers for today

Vic 45 

NSW 919

 

NZ 62

ACT 8.

@lewelma

Does this fit in with initial predictions about cases growing initially with people already exposed and then going down?  I’m hoping so.  

[lewelma]

26 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

ACT 8.

@lewelma

Does this fit in with initial predictions about cases growing initially with people already exposed and then going down?  I’m hoping so.  

Yup. We are still fine. We are 7 days post lockdown, so with all the exposure that happened with 20+ infectious people in the community last Tuesday Aug 17 (each with 6+ contacts), a time delay in getting infected, a time delay in showing symptoms, and a time delay in getting results, we are looking at 8-9ish days for the Tuesday Aug 17 infectious group, so that will end tomorrow or Thursday. But then all those people have infected their immediate families (with a very high rate of transmission so an average of 4 per person even in lockdown because so many were in Pacifica households which are large), which will continue the number going up for an additional 4 days. We are expecting numbers to start to decline by Sunday (but could be Tuesday because of the large Pacifica households). We are NOT exponential even though we have mostly 20somethings in the infectious groups and they are way more than 6+ contacts given we have about 20 superspreader events. So linear progression up is a very good sign. We are on target. No need to worry now unless people get demoralized and break the lockdown. This is why they keep saying we expect numbers to go up until the weekend. They need to set expectation to ensure compliance. 

Also, to be clear, wastewater is clear in the rest of the country at 70 sites. The outbreak is limited to ONE city. 

Edited August 25, 2021 by lewelma

[lewelma]

I will also say it is NOT helpful to have the international press jump to conclusions and not do the research to find out that we are on target. They see numbers going up and tell us to abandon ship after only SEVEN days. Really?!?!?! Go look at the modelling before you tell us what to do.

[lewelma]

There are currently 20,000 people in the close contact list that need to be called everyday. (They spread the net wide, so all 85 people in the lecture hall with 1 infectious person etc). So they have trained people from across the government to join the call centers for the contact tracers. They say they now have 1200 contact tracers for 20,000 people. 

They are also delivering food to people locked down, and joining the bubble of a home child care worker (who has already been vetted) with essential workers who need child care (so just 2 bubbles joined). We also have the wage subsidy for both the companies and the workers. All homeless have been put in hotels. Domestic violence victims are also supported outside their bubbles. They now are pretty good at the social services to make sure that lockdown is possible. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

2 hours ago, lewelma said:

I will also say it is NOT helpful to have the international press jump to conclusions and not do the research to find out that we are on target. They see numbers going up and tell us to abandon ship after only SEVEN days. Really?!?!?! Go look at the modelling before you tell us what to do.

I think that NZ has shown that they have the expertise to tell the rest of the world what to do instead of the other way around.  (Though being an island does help. . . )  I am shocked that anyone would suggest doing things to open NZ up to the death, illness and hospital overrun that has happened elsewhere from countries not doing what NZ has done. 

[Melissa Louise]

Proud of the hotspot suburb next to mine, which has a downward, still dropping curve.

Mostly people from O/S, everyone masked, and all stores allowed to open (food, chemist) have improvised outdoor service along a largely pedestrianised street. And are clearly staying home as much as possible. 

Mine is ticking along, line looking pretty low and flat after a little bump.

Looking at suburb by suburb data, it's interesting to see that even within an LGA, there's a wide range of increase/decrease in cases. The further west, the higher the case number and no flattening.

The further east or south, closer to the CBD or coast, the lower the numbers and the flatter the curve. This outbreak seeks out poverty. 

[Ausmumof3]

2 hours ago, Melissa Louise said:

Proud of the hotspot suburb next to mine, which has a downward, still dropping curve.

Mostly people from O/S, everyone masked, and all stores allowed to open (food, chemist) have improvised outdoor service along a largely pedestrianised street. And are clearly staying home as much as possible. 

Mine is ticking along, line looking pretty low and flat after a little bump.

Looking at suburb by suburb data, it's interesting to see that even within an LGA, there's a wide range of increase/decrease in cases. The further west, the higher the case number and no flattening.

The further east or south, closer to the CBD or coast, the lower the numbers and the flatter the curve. This outbreak seeks out poverty. 

I think it was on coronacast today or yesterday that the locked down LGAs are actually doing well but adjacent suburbs are almost exponential?  I will find it and make sure I have that right.  Seems like it would be better to relax things a bit in those LGAs and make the restrictions a bit more even/universal?  

[Ausmumof3]

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/israel-s-20-unvaccinated-now-account-for-half-of-all-serious-covid-19-cases-1.10146662?utm_source=mailchimp&utm_medium=content&utm_campaign=daily-brief&utm_content=ec397bb0ad
 

Stats on vaccination and serious cases from Israel.

[Melissa Louise]

28 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I think it was on coronacast today or yesterday that the locked down LGAs are actually doing well but adjacent suburbs are almost exponential?  I will find it and make sure I have that right.  Seems like it would be better to relax things a bit in those LGAs and make the restrictions a bit more even/universal?  

Half my LGA is still going up, up, up. I'm in the down, down part. 

[ieta_cassiopeia]

17 hours ago, Wheres Toto said:

Do you have a citation for this?   Once we realized that surface transmission wasn't a big part of this, it seems like this wouldn't hold true.  

It was in the WHO explanation in April 2020 (I have a link to the current version, which cites Machinda et al's study of incorrect mask-wearing in Japan). (Also, for someone who's wearing a mask badly in these ways in an area where a properly-fitting mask would be protective, would be getting a combination of surface and air transmission. The incorrect wearing of the mask leads to an increase in viral load, both from increased air-to-surface transmission (e.g from excess touching of parts of the mask which have previously-airborne virus on them) and air transmission (e.g from "chin-masking", which does nothing to block incoming infected airflow since the mask is over the chin instead of the nose and mouth). Getting 1/10 of the amount needed to become ill from 10 sources in a short space of time would logically lead to a similar result to getting the whole amount needed to become ill from 1 source in the same timeframe.

A citation for bad mask-wearing being worse than no mask-wearing* at all is Gupta, Gupta and Gupta "The use of facemasks by the general population to prevent transmission of Covid 19 infection: A systematic review", though it does not appear that the WHO would have used that to justify its original position. Note that some of the research incorporated in that review is of medical-grade masks, which are more complicated to wear correctly than fabric masks.

* - The specific quote for proper mask-wearing is:

Quote

The protective effect of facemasks is determined by the transmission blocking potential of the mask material and the degree of adherence to proper wearing of masks

 

[ktgrok]

7 hours ago, lewelma said:

I will also say it is NOT helpful to have the international press jump to conclusions and not do the research to find out that we are on target. They see numbers going up and tell us to abandon ship after only SEVEN days. Really?!?!?! Go look at the modelling before you tell us what to do.

Ridiculous. 

4 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

I think that NZ has shown that they have the expertise to tell the rest of the world what to do instead of the other way around.  (Though being an island does help. . . )  I am shocked that anyone would suggest doing things to open NZ up to the death, illness and hospital overrun that has happened elsewhere from countries not doing what NZ has done. 

Exactly

43 minutes ago, ieta_cassiopeia said:

It was in the WHO explanation in April 2020 (I have a link to the current version, which cites Machinda et al's study of incorrect mask-wearing in Japan). (Also, for someone who's wearing a mask badly in these ways in an area where a properly-fitting mask would be protective, would be getting a combination of surface and air transmission. The incorrect wearing of the mask leads to an increase in viral load, both from increased air-to-surface transmission (e.g from excess touching of parts of the mask which have previously-airborne virus on them) and air transmission (e.g from "chin-masking", which does nothing to block incoming infected airflow since the mask is over the chin instead of the nose and mouth). Getting 1/10 of the amount needed to become ill from 10 sources in a short space of time would logically lead to a similar result to getting the whole amount needed to become ill from 1 source in the same timeframe.

A citation for bad mask-wearing being worse than no mask-wearing* at all is Gupta, Gupta and Gupta "The use of facemasks by the general population to prevent transmission of Covid 19 infection: A systematic review", though it does not appear that the WHO would have used that to justify its original position. Note that some of the research incorporated in that review is of medical-grade masks, which are more complicated to wear correctly than fabric masks.

* - The specific quote for proper mask-wearing is:

 

I don't see how wearing the mask and touching it sometimes is worse than wearing the mask and touching the desk, doorknob, etc. It's not actually possible, unless you assume the ONLY thing they are touching is their mask AND assume that they touch their eyes/nose/mouth after touching the mask but would NOT be touching their eyes/nose/mouth without a mask on, which is silly. That said, i count wearing a mask under your chin as not wearing one. 

And of course, in April 2020 we thought the disease was mostly transmitted by surfaces. 

[ieta_cassiopeia]

20 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

Ridiculous. 

Exactly

I don't see how wearing the mask and touching it sometimes is worse than wearing the mask and touching the desk, doorknob, etc. It's not actually possible, unless you assume the ONLY thing they are touching is their mask AND assume that they touch their eyes/nose/mouth after touching the mask but would NOT be touching their eyes/nose/mouth without a mask on, which is silly. That said, i count wearing a mask under your chin as not wearing one. 

And of course, in April 2020 we thought the disease was mostly transmitted by surfaces. 

Masks accumulate solid particles from air, since the parts that don't go through the mask don't fall off the mask reliably between breaths (air has always been seen as part of the problem, hence why masks were recommended for medical people from day 1 of the pandemic confirmation) because we breathe in and out. Thus, there's likely to be a higher concentration of COVID-19 particles on a mask surface that's been in an area infected with COVID-19 than the average surface that hasn't been directly and constantly breathed upon or through. (Of course, if someone sits at the same office desk at work all day, then that desk may very well be as dangerous to touch as a mask worn in the same office, as would breathing the air unmasked in the same office all day. Sadly, bad mask-wearing is only one of several methods of increasing viral load).

The only way to prevent that transmission would be to a) wear the mask properly and not touch the infected parts of the mask or b) wash hands between doing so and touching anything else. In other words, the same way as preventing any other surface infection.

This is even more true since we learned that air transmission is the primary method of infection. 

The Machinda study counted wearing a mask under the chin as wearing one improperly, which makes sense as it needed to differentiate between proper, improper, and non-mask wearing. Whereas you are considering the practical consequences of mask-wearing

[Ausmumof3]

https://amp.theage.com.au/national/victoria/victorian-students-top-naplan-results-despite-months-of-remote-learning-20210824-p58lcs.html?__twitter_impression=true
 

Not that I put a lot of faith in NAPLAN but this is a bit of bright news on a bleak day.  Victorian kids literacy and numeracy scores are up overall even with (or possibly because of) periods of online learning.

[TCB]

10 minutes ago, ieta_cassiopeia said:

Masks accumulate solid particles from air, since the parts that don't go through the mask don't fall off the mask reliably between breaths (air has always been seen as part of the problem, hence why masks were recommended for medical people from day 1 of the pandemic confirmation) because we breathe in and out. Thus, there's likely to be a higher concentration of COVID-19 particles on a mask surface that's been in an area infected with COVID-19 than the average surface that hasn't been directly and constantly breathed upon or through. (Of course, if someone sits at the same office desk at work all day, then that desk may very well be as dangerous to touch as a mask worn in the same office, as would breathing the air unmasked in the same office all day. Sadly, bad mask-wearing is only one of several methods of increasing viral load).

The only way to prevent that transmission would be to a) wear the mask properly and not touch the infected parts of the mask or b) wash hands between doing so and touching anything else. In other words, the same way as preventing any other surface infection.

This is even more true since we learned that air transmission is the primary method of infection. 

The Machinda study counted wearing a mask under the chin as wearing one improperly, which makes sense as it needed to differentiate between proper, improper, and non-mask wearing. Whereas you are considering the practical consequences of mask-wearing

I had to laugh when I read this. They say masks don’t work to stop the virus, and yet you’re more at risk if you wear one and touch it because there is a collection of virus on the surface of the mask that it has “stopped” I guess? I know you aren’t making this argument at all, but it is just the sort of scrambled up stuff that anti-maskers argue around me. The whole thing is like whack-a-mole - as soon as you knock back one objection or argument they move to another.

[ieta_cassiopeia]

4 minutes ago, TCB said:

I had to laugh when I read this. They say masks don’t work to stop the virus, and yet you’re more at risk if you wear one and touch it because there is a collection of virus on the surface of the mask that it has “stopped” I guess? I know you aren’t making this argument at all, but it is just the sort of scrambled up stuff that anti-maskers argue around me. The whole thing is like whack-a-mole - as soon as you knock back one objection or argument they move to another.

The statement here makes no sense. The point is to wear a mask correctly, and those particles that have got stuck are proof that there's a point to wearing one.

Edited August 25, 2021 by ieta_cassiopeia