wuhan - coronavirus

[Drama Llama]

35 minutes ago, wathe said:

Re camp:  as long as masking means actually masking properly*, then you are probably OK.  Masks work very well.  Masked plus vaxxed is as good as it gets.

It's going to be hard to transition out of pandemic mode. To be constantly risk-analyzing every decision is really a burden, particularly when that analysis has to be based imperfect information in constantly evolving circumstances.  (I'm agonizing over kid plans for summer and fall here too.)

*Well-fitting mask worn over both mouth and nose at all times while indoors.  I know you know this, but your camp might not...  

Thanks, to be clear, he’s going.  He needs a gentle transition back to group things before school.  The question is whether we still see my nieces and the baby.  

What masks are people using for indoor things?  

[kbutton]

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2021/jul/08/a-world-problem-immigrant-families-hit-by-covid-jab-gap?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other&fbclid=IwAR3YF08Qnhuckcv_HjhTsVe2krI39CRstRyse7au8tlKZR6Q3IKATpstAqQ

Article about expatriate families in America who have loved ones in countries with less vaccine access. 

[KSera]

1 hour ago, BaseballandHockey said:

What masks are people using for indoor things?

We primarily use these for the kids, and the adult version for us:

https://www.amazon.com/20Packs-KIDS-KF94-Protective-Individually/dp/B08X47VFH7/ref=mp_s_a_1_8?dchild=1&keywords=bluna+facefit+kf94&qid=1626032839&sprefix=bluna&sr=8-8
 

They’re certified and tested at 98-99% filtration and the ear loops are adjustable. We remold the nose wire to our faces each time we put them on. 

[kbutton]

1 hour ago, BaseballandHockey said:

What masks are people using for indoor things?  

Happy masks. 

[melmichigan]

4 hours ago, BaseballandHockey said:

Can I ask opinions on something related to the vaccinated people transmitting?

I don't like that we are changing the bar.  It was that we were always reporting on vaccine effectiveness at preventing asymptomatic/symptomatic infection, and that number was good, particularly for the mRNA vaccines.  Then we dropped asymptomatic infection. Now we are dropping symptomatic infection and we are only reporting on hospitalizations and deaths.  This discounts the number of people that are getting long haul covid.  I get that we have to live with the disease, but I think it degrades the public trust.

I primarily use Cambridge Pro valved masks indoors.  As a family we use Cambridge Pro, Happy Mask, and Vog.  Based on the CDC I don't have a problem with the valves, unless something changes with the variant, and people go back to masking around us.

[mommyoffive]

24 minutes ago, KSera said:

We primarily use these for the kids, and the adult version for us:

https://www.amazon.com/20Packs-KIDS-KF94-Protective-Individually/dp/B08X47VFH7/ref=mp_s_a_1_8?dchild=1&keywords=bluna+facefit+kf94&qid=1626032839&sprefix=bluna&sr=8-8
 

They’re certified and tested at 98-99% filtration and the ear loops are adjustable. We remold the nose wire to our faces each time we put them on. 

What age kids do you have wearing these?

[wathe]

1 hour ago, BaseballandHockey said:

Thanks, to be clear, he’s going.  He needs a gentle transition back to group things before school.  The question is whether we still see my nieces and the baby.  

What masks are people using for indoor things?  

My kids are using regular disposable pleated ear-loop masks in most instances, with the ear loops knotted to the right length to get a good fit.  In higher risk situations (ie medical office visits), they are wearing the same pleated mask under well-fitting home-made cloth masks.  The pleated disposable masks are melt-blown polypro with good filtration, and the cloth masks improve the fit.  

My thought process:  Hospital HCW here have been wearing disposable pleated procedure masks for covid care here all along (except for AGMP, where n95's are worn) and it really seems to work.  If it's good enough for me at work to protect me when caring for covid patients, then it's good enough for my kids in the community IYKWIM.  The pleated masks are comfy enough to wear all day.

[Penelope]

1 hour ago, melmichigan said:

I don't like that we are changing the bar.  It was that we were always reporting on vaccine effectiveness at preventing asymptomatic/symptomatic infection, and that number was good, particularly for the mRNA vaccines.  Then we dropped asymptomatic infection. Now we are dropping symptomatic infection and we are only reporting on hospitalizations and deaths.  

 

Is that true? Do you mean for vaccinated, or for everyone, or…?

I still see case numbers reported, and people who are vaccinated with symptoms are still encouraged to get tested. Did CDC stop keeping track of any breakthroughs? 

[KSera]

1 hour ago, mommyoffive said:

What age kids do you have wearing these?

4 and 12. BOTN makes a kid size one as well that is similar. 

18 minutes ago, Penelope said:

Is that true? Do you mean for vaccinated, or for everyone, or…?

I still see case numbers reported, and people who are vaccinated with symptoms are still encouraged to get tested. Did CDC stop keeping track of any breakthroughs? 

CDC stopped tracking vaccine breakthroughs quite a while back. Might’ve been late May? I’d have to look it up. I think it was a big mistake. Besides meaning we are losing so much data on what’s happening and whether breakthroughs are increasing, it’s also going to have the unintended side effect of making it look as if breakthrough cases have a higher incidence of hospitalization and death, because we’re going to have the wrong denominator.

eta: to clarify, they are not tracking mild or asymptomatic breakthroughs. Only those hospitalized or who die.

Edited July 11, 2021 by KSera

[Penelope]

22 minutes ago, KSera said:

4 and 12. BOTN makes a kid size one as well that is similar. 

CDC stopped tracking vaccine breakthroughs quite a while back. Might’ve been late May? I’d have to look it up. I think it was a big mistake. Besides meaning we are losing so much data on what’s happening and whether breakthroughs are increasing, it’s also going to have the unintended side effect of making it look as if breakthrough cases have a higher incidence of hospitalization and death, because we’re going to have the wrong denominator.

eta: to clarify, they are not tracking mild or asymptomatic breakthroughs. Only those hospitalized or who die.

Thanks. I had thought that was only for sequencing which variants were the breakthroughs, but no. It looks like they do still have some studies going on looking at milder breakthroughs. I wonder if any states still track all of them. 
 

I don’t think they have ever recommended testing for asymptomatic, and it seems like that would be a huge waste of resources to continue doing that for over half the population. There are other public health concerns that need attention, too. 

 

Edited July 11, 2021 by Penelope

[Ausmumof3]

From Bno 25% of the world's population is at least partially vaccinated against COVID-19

[Melissa Louise]

1 hour ago, Ausmumof3 said:

From Bno 25% of the world's population is at least partially vaccinated against COVID-19

Wow, makes you realise the massive privilege we 25% have. 

It's an ethically troublesome situation. I know here I want everyone over 16 vaccinated stat...but probably better to focus on higher coverage elsewhere.

[KSera]

Just now, Melissa Louise said:

Wow, makes you realise the massive privilege we 25% have. 

It's an ethically troublesome situation. I know here I want everyone over 16 vaccinated stat...but probably better to focus on higher coverage elsewhere.

I’ve been thinking this today. I don’t know if it’s right for us to be giving third shot boosters when so little of the world has had the opportunity to have a vaccine at all. of course, that is predicated on the thought that the shots we would otherwise have here would be able to go to those places if we don’t use them.

[Ausmumof3]

1 minute ago, Melissa Louise said:

Wow, makes you realise the massive privilege we 25% have. 

It's an ethically troublesome situation. I know here I want everyone over 16 vaccinated stat...but probably better to focus on higher coverage elsewhere.

Yup.  Plus a pretty decent percentage of those are less effective vaccines.

[Ausmumof3]

I think the right solution is building manufacturing capacity locally so we can contribute to the solution really.  But it will likely be too late.

[Melissa Louise]

Just now, KSera said:

I’ve been thinking this today. I don’t know if it’s right for us to be giving third shot boosters when so little of the world has had the opportunity to have a vaccine at all. of course, that is predicated on the thought that the shots we would otherwise have here would be able to go to those places if we don’t use them.

Well, yes. And that's the problem at an individual level. DD could ask for 'her' shot to go to a Grandma in Timor Leste, but it's not going there at that point. Too late in the chain. So she may as well have 'her' dose. 

Luck of birth place is a crazy unfair thing. 

 

[SoCal_Bear]

4 hours ago, kbutton said:

Happy masks. 

Me too! I just reordered and got their new ear saver 2-in-1 lanyards for everyone as well.

[Ausmumof3]

112 for NSW with 34 infectious in the community.  I guess it’s a couple of days before we will see the impact of the latest tightening on lockdown measures.  61 linked to know case or cluster, 41 household. 48 under investigation 

[Ausmumof3]

One positive case from NSW travelled through Vic and SA while infectious - details on potential exposure sites to come

 

[kbutton]

1 hour ago, calbear said:

Me too! I just reordered and got their new ear saver 2-in-1 lanyards for everyone as well.

Your recommendations helped me choose Happy Masks. 😷

[ktgrok]

6 hours ago, melmichigan said:

I don't like that we are changing the bar.  It was that we were always reporting on vaccine effectiveness at preventing asymptomatic/symptomatic infection, and that number was good, particularly for the mRNA vaccines.  Then we dropped asymptomatic infection. Now we are dropping symptomatic infection and we are only reporting on hospitalizations and deaths.  This discounts the number of people that are getting long haul covid.  I get that we have to live with the disease, but I think it degrades the public trust.

I primarily use Cambridge Pro valved masks indoors.  As a family we use Cambridge Pro, Happy Mask, and Vog.  Based on the CDC I don't have a problem with the valves, unless something changes with the variant, and people go back to masking around us.

It does seem that the Delta variant changed things - the mRNA vaccines were VERY good at preventing any infection in the earlier strains, over 90%, but are only about 60% effective at preventing asymptomatic infection with Delta. 

Not saying that has to do with the reporting, but with how we are handling things in real life, it changes things. Delta is SO much more infectious. 

[Drama Llama]

8 hours ago, melmichigan said:

I don't like that we are changing the bar.  

I don't feel like we're changing the bar.  I feel like the data from Delta is different from the data for Alpha was.  So, we might need to change our behavior to accommodate. 

Our area is seeing some slight increase.  Numbers are still really low, but they're a little higher.  I think camp might be OK, but I'm worried about school.

[Ausmumof3]

SA woman believed to have died from rare blood clot syndrome

The South Australian government says a 72-year-old woman is believed to have died from a rare blood clot syndrome linked to the AstraZeneca vaccine.

The woman was vaccinated on June 24, was admitted to hospital on July 5, and passed away overnight.

Her death has been reported to the Therapeutic Goods Administration and the South Australian Coroner for further investigation.

South Australia has two new cases of COVID-19, both people in hotel quarantine.

It brings the total to 20 active cases in the state, with two people being treated in hospital.
 

yet another blood clot death from Astra Zeneca, here in my state this time ☹️

[Drama Llama]

7 hours ago, wathe said:

My kids are using regular disposable pleated ear-loop masks in most instances, with the ear loops knotted to the right length to get a good fit.  In higher risk situations (ie medical office visits), they are wearing the same pleated mask under well-fitting home-made cloth masks.  The pleated disposable masks are melt-blown polypro with good filtration, and the cloth masks improve the fit.  

My thought process:  Hospital HCW here have been wearing disposable pleated procedure masks for covid care here all along (except for AGMP, where n95's are worn) and it really seems to work.  If it's good enough for me at work to protect me when caring for covid patients, then it's good enough for my kids in the community IYKWIM.  The pleated masks are comfy enough to wear all day.

Thanks!

I think we're going to try some different options, and see what he can sing and dance in.  

I get what you're saying, but on the other hand, I think the fact that HCW's don't have the very best protection, is a reason for us to be really vigilant about keeping down community spread.

[Melissa Louise]

On the bus to a medical appt.

Have made three people put their masks on properly, so far, including the driver! 

 

[Drama Llama]

6 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

On the bus to a medical appt.

Have made three people put their masks on properly, so far, including the driver! 

 

You are kinda my hero.  Wanna come to a swim meet?  

[Melissa Louise]

14 minutes ago, BaseballandHockey said:

You are kinda my hero.  Wanna come to a swim meet?  

Used my teacher voice, lol

[Drama Llama]

3 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

Used my teacher voice, lol

My teacher voice is very tired.  

[Melissa in Australia]

1 hour ago, Ausmumof3 said:

SA woman believed to have died from rare blood clot syndrome

The South Australian government says a 72-year-old woman is believed to have died from a rare blood clot syndrome linked to the AstraZeneca vaccine.

The woman was vaccinated on June 24, was admitted to hospital on July 5, and passed away overnight.

Her death has been reported to the Therapeutic Goods Administration and the South Australian Coroner for further investigation.

South Australia has two new cases of COVID-19, both people in hotel quarantine.

It brings the total to 20 active cases in the state, with two people being treated in hospital.
 

yet another blood clot death from Astra Zeneca, here in my state this time ☹️

there are currently more people in Australia dying of the vaccine than covid

[Melissa Louise]

One so far on the way home. Middle aged guy. He reacted by covering his entire face with his mask, very mature. But he's wearing it properly now.

 

 

[Ausmumof3]

1 hour ago, Melissa in Australia said:

there are currently more people in Australia dying of the vaccine than covid

Yeah it’s getting harder to see the benefit of continuing with Astra at this point to be honest.  Outside of NSW anyway.  The age thing doesn’t really seem to be a reliable guide for whose at risk though of course the Covid risk is still so much worse 

[KSera]

2 hours ago, BaseballandHockey said:

I get what you're saying, but on the other hand, I think the fact that HCW's don't have the very best protection, is a reason for us to be really vigilant about keeping down community spread.

I’ve seen a lot of Canadian HCW campaigning hard for better masks all along. They have not been happy with surgical masks for an airborne virus, nor with which things are considered AGP. There was a study that just came out addressing this that showed a major improvement when HCW switched to FFP3 (just realized this is a UK study, not Canada)  

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-57636360.amp

The study found that staff caring for Covid patients on "red" wards faced a risk that was up to 47 times higher than those on "green" or non-Covid wards.

In the weeks following this move, the rate of infections among healthcare workers on red wards dropped spectacularly, quickly falling to the level experienced by staff on green wards where there were no Covid patients.

The study concludes that "cases attributed to ward-based exposure fell significantly, with FFP3 respirators providing 31-100% protection (and most likely 100%) against infection from patients with Covid-19".

Any remaining cases were likely to be caused by spread in the community, rather than in the hospital.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I am hearing more from a few people who were "Covid is no big deal" who now have young people in their family with Long Covid and/or with heart issues that they never had pre-Covid.  I am very sorry that they are facing this but I do (privately) scratch my head a bit because at least outwardly they seem to see no correlation between their very lax attitude toward Covid (no masking or social distancing or vaccination) and the health problems that their young adults are now facing.  No one is asking for my take on things and I would never ever want to make someone feel worse than they must already be feeling so I say nothing.  I guess that I'm mentioning it here in this more anonymous setting because I hope that others will learn from their experience and won't shrug this off.  Yes, some people have very little illness and no lasting effects but these were previously very healthy young people with absolutely no pre-existing conditions who don't know yet the extent of how their health will be affected and for how long. 

[Melissa in Australia]

hundreds of  medical workers get covid after being fully vaccinated in Thailand https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-57801251

[Ausmumof3]

1 hour ago, Melissa in Australia said:

hundreds of  medical workers get covid after being fully vaccinated in Thailand https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-57801251

Looks like they had Sinovac so not super surprising.

[ktgrok]

Florida positivity and cases are up significantly (we only report by the week now, not the day, so this is as of July 8th...don't get me started on the lack of reporting...). 

Statewide positivity is up to 7.8%. But we have counties over 20% positivity! My county is over 8%, neighboring county that all the stores I go to are in is over 12%, and my parents' county on the coast is over 11%. 

My neighbor across the street has it right now, a friend is taking her daughter to be tested today, I'm hearing more and more. Neighbor says he only goes to work where I think they are masking..but he works in a restaurant so lots of people in enclosed space most of whom are not masking, and he refuses to be vaccinated. Friend and her daughter went to a local tourist place that was crowded - they were masked but most people were not. Daughter is too young to be vaccinated, her mom and older sister are, her younger sister isn't. Now they all get to worry about that.

Delta is SO contagious! 

[KSera]

19 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

Delta is SO contagious! 

It is so, so contagious. I’m starting to feel increasingly concerned just how bad it might get in some areas of the country over the next couple months. I thought of you when I saw Florida‘s current trajectory. I can’t understand deciding at this point, with all the data we have, deciding you’d rather get Covid than have the vaccine. I can’t figure out on what basis. Because at this point, unless you keep yourself in lockdown, it’s a matter of when you will get it and not if, if you haven’t already had Covid and aren’t vaccinated. (General you, obviously.)

[lauraw4321]

Friend and her family. just tested positive. All but one (too young) were vaxxed with mRNA vax. Urgent care is confident it’s Delta, but that hasn’t been confirmed. 

[Acadie]

Just now, lauraw4321 said:

Friend and her family. just tested positive. All but one (too young) were vaxxed with mRNA vax. Urgent care is confident it’s Delta, but that hasn’t been confirmed. 

I'm so sorry for your friend and family, and hope none of them are terribly ill. 

I'd be curious what state, if you're comfortable sharing.

[ktgrok]

27 minutes ago, KSera said:

It is so, so contagious. I’m starting to feel increasingly concerned just how bad it might get in some areas of the country over the next couple months. I thought of you when I saw Florida‘s current trajectory. I can’t understand deciding at this point, with all the data we have, deciding you’d rather get Covid than have the vaccine. I can’t figure out on what basis. Because at this point, unless you keep yourself in lockdown, it’s a matter of when you will get it and not if, if you haven’t already had Covid and aren’t vaccinated. (General you, obviously.)

Well, taking my neighbors experience into account, they probably are woefully uneducated on the topic or totally misinformed. My neighbor was totally confused as to how he could catch it since "he only goes to work". And when I mentioned how contagious Delta is he said, "Who?" He'd never heard of the Delta variant, which makes me think he's not that informed at all....although he's sure the vaccine is very dangerous. 

[Laura Corin]

1 hour ago, ktgrok said:

Florida positivity and cases are up significantly (we only report by the week now, not the day, so this is as of July 8th...don't get me started on the lack of reporting...). 

Statewide positivity is up to 7.8%. But we have counties over 20% positivity! My county is over 8%, neighboring county that all the stores I go to are in is over 12%, and my parents' county on the coast is over 11%. 

Scotland is at 11.1 and my county is at 11.8. Scotland is averaging three deaths a day with positive Covid tests. Last time we were at this positivity it was 76 a day. High vaccination rates seem to be making a difference. It's almost all Delta.

Edited July 12, 2021 by Laura Corin

[lauraw4321]

1 hour ago, Acadie said:

I'm so sorry for your friend and family, and hope none of them are terribly ill. 

I'd be curious what state, if you're comfortable sharing.

AL, but they caught it in MO. They are all faring well so far. 

[kbutton]

https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/12/health/us-coronavirus-monday/index.html?fbclid=IwAR1TDr61wYjvtzqTDziLj-O9bh8_gQNV5-jVYvxB9GzsT_732qwoItm5its

Quote

The United States is averaging about 19,455 new cases over the past seven days, a 47% increase from the week prior, according to data from Johns Hopkins University. And a third of those, CNN medical analyst Dr. Jonathan Reiner said, come from five hot spots: Florida, Louisiana, Arkansas, Missouri and Nevada.
"In places like Missouri where ICUs are packed, you're going to see a surprising amount of death," Reiner said on Sunday.

At Mercy Hospital in Springfield, Missouri, 91% of patients in the intensive care unit are on ventilators and many are in their 20s, 30s and 40s, Chief Administrative Officer Erik Frederick told CNN on Saturday. That is especially concerning, he said, because at the peak last year there were only 40 to 50% of ICU patients on ventilators.

 

[Ausmumof3]

So we have had some removalists travel through the state from NSW while infected.  There’s a lot of work going on to track their movements - sounds like they haven’t been overly open with contact tracers.  Has also resulted in an apartment building lockdown in VIC. I have to say I’m really looking forward to end of August when most of the adults in my extended family will be fully vaccinated and I won’t worry as much.  Not sure what one family member will do as they are a bit anti vax but I can only hope I guess.

[Ausmumof3]

Looks like Cal is bringing in masks to schools again 

[Ausmumof3]

Today’s coronacast was kind of bleak.  The models seem to show that with current restrictions in NSW it will take two to three months possibly worst case through to Christmas to get things under control.  If they went to a stage 4 lockdown Vic style it could be done in a month.

They did have some good news on vaccines though 

Moderna vax produces good antibodies after six months to even a quarter or half dose so this could be a possible way of speeding up vaccine rollouts in countries with access issues. It takes longer to get an immune response but eventually they’re good.
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01893-0

Pfizer doesn’t seem to travel through breastmilk (antibodies likely do though)

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/fullarticle/2781679

 

Pfizer seems to be safe for cancer patients (obviously consult your specialist first though). Protection may be a little delayed compared to the rest of the population but does get there in time.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamaoncology/fullarticle/2781608

[Ausmumof3]

89 cases for NSW today so nice to see it under 100 though I imagine it will likely bounce around a bit 

[Ausmumof3]

Shape of the world graph right now.  I can’t help thinking that the football etc (feels wrong calling it that from Aussie Rules land) isn’t going to help with that.  Really looking like another wave.  I wonder how much the waves coincide with the variants.

Edited July 13, 2021 by Ausmumof3

[Halftime Hope]

To those who have talked about other viruses in circulation, this bit of interesting data from my county:  

Of all XXXX County residents tested for COVID-19 by PCR during the week ending 7/3/21 (CDC week 26), 5.3% of respiratory specimens tested positive for SARS-CoV-2. For week 26, area hospital labs have continued to report elevated numbers and proportions of respiratory specimens that are positive for other respiratory viruses by molecular tests: parainfluenza (10%), rhinovirus/enterovirus (24%) and RSV (29%).     So roughly 2x, 4x, and 6x more likely to have other viruses. 

That's pretty amazing.  And I'm grateful. 

[Ausmumof3]

10 minutes ago, Halftime Hope said:

To those who have talked about other viruses in circulation, this bit of interesting data from my county:  

Of all XXXX County residents tested for COVID-19 by PCR during the week ending 7/3/21 (CDC week 26), 5.3% of respiratory specimens tested positive for SARS-CoV-2. For week 26, area hospital labs have continued to report elevated numbers and proportions of respiratory specimens that are positive for other respiratory viruses by molecular tests: parainfluenza (10%), rhinovirus/enterovirus (24%) and RSV (29%).     So roughly 2x, 4x, and 6x more likely to have other viruses. 

That's pretty amazing.  And I'm grateful. 

There’s been a tonne of stuff circulating this year once people got mobile here.