wuhan - coronavirus

[Ausmumof3]

Too much going on to keep up with. Parts of Qld are going into a three day lockdown.  NT had two more cases and restrictions are being extended.  Number of international arrivals is being challenged by the states.

Interstate travellers that have to quarantine are being quarantined separate to international arrivals.

[Pen]

Just now, Ausmumof3 said:

No idea sorry 

I don’t need to know, but if people are making decisions based on the “information” of positives versus negatives at that event, they should know the testing parameters because it matters hugely. They should know if people were tested in meaningful ways. And they should know if vaccinated and unvaccinated are being tested at same cycle setting or different.  People have said in Us it’s often different and different definitions of what counts as positive in other ways also

[Ausmumof3]

Just now, Pen said:

I don’t need to know, but if people are making decisions based on the “information” of positives versus negatives at that event, they should know the testing parameters because it matters hugely. They should know if people were tested in meaningful ways. And they should know if vaccinated and unvaccinated are being tested at same cycle setting or different.  People have said in Us it’s often different and different definitions of what counts as positive in other ways also

Given that the swabs are taken away for testing and they don’t know the vax status at the time I would assume it’s the same.

[Pen]

1 minute ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Given that the swabs are taken away for testing and they don’t know the vax status at the time I would assume it’s the same.

Personally, if potentially life and death decisions were being made based on something like this, especially if deciding for children, I would make no assumptions.  

[Ausmumof3]

21 minutes ago, Pen said:

Personally, if potentially life and death decisions were being made based on something like this, especially if deciding for children, I would make no assumptions.  

 Children aren’t eligible for vaccinations here yet.  I hope no one is making these decisions based on one anecdote from one country when there’s so much more data available.  But what you seem to be suggesting, if I’ve understood correctly, is that the health authorities are deliberately manipulating the testing to make the vaccine seem more successful than it is.  I don’t personally see any evidence of that.  I don’t want to put words on your mouth so forgive me if I’ve misunderstood.

[Pen]

13 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

 Children aren’t eligible for vaccinations here yet.  I hope no one is making these decisions based on one anecdote from one country when there’s so much more data available.  But what you seem to be suggesting, if I’ve understood correctly, is that the health authorities are deliberately manipulating the testing to make the vaccine seem more successful than it is.  I don’t personally see any evidence of that.  I don’t want to put words on your mouth so forgive me if I’ve misunderstood.

I think even if people are not deciding about children there in Australia that there are people elsewhere who do look at news like that as they try to decide what to do

Here (USA) most adults seem to have decided already for themselves so here most people in my awareness range are at decisions about children stage by and large — obviously that part is different in AU, but news reports travel from there to here and vice versa.   Afaik more people reading your information about what’s happening there in Aus here on WTM are Americans than Australians. 
 

Cycle amplification Levels are important to report along with numbers much as it is important to know if the weather temperature  is 45 degrees in F or in C as one is cool (if wet conditions, cold enough for hypothermia even) and the other potentially dangerously hot.  And decisions about what actions to take based on 45F could be very different than in 45C. Ignoring the units or scale being used could be fatal.  Though of course with weather temperature  just stepping outside will likely give a good idea if it is cool or very hot. 
 

With things more invisible more information is needed because we have less ability to just feel for ourselves. (Though in case of cv19, symptoms can help some and could be worth asking about.) As another example where it is less obvious than the weather temperature, it would be important to know if a Vitamin D level was reported in ng/ml or in nmol/L (and also what form of D was being tested — especially if someone is trying to get an optimal level not a merely above rickets level. 
 

And yet most people have no idea what cycle amplification levels or scales are being used, at any particular place, time, or situation. And most do not try to find out. USA used levels too high to be meaningful for a long time. It has had different definitions of cases in different circumstances.

 I have no idea what Australia is doing. 

I know that it is important to know for people looking at news to help make decisions for themselves or loved ones. 

I know you spend time looking into things deeply. This is an area that deserves your attention imo.  Consider it my love language trying, very probably a last time,  to speak to you. 
 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ausmumof3]

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-30/royal-flying-doctor-remote-sa-vaccine-program/100252018
 

Vaccination rollout to remote communities in SA is happening via the Royal Flying Doctor Service. 

[Ausmumof3]

5 hours ago, Pen said:

I think even if people are not deciding about children there in Australia that there are people elsewhere who do look at news like that as they try to decide what to do

Here (USA) most adults seem to have decided already for themselves so here most people in my awareness range are at decisions about children stage by and large — obviously that part is different in AU, but news reports travel from there to here and vice versa.   Afaik more people reading your information about what’s happening there in Aus here on WTM are Americans than Australians. 
 

Cycle amplification Levels are important to report along with numbers much as it is important to know if the weather temperature  is 45 degrees in F or in C as one is cool (if wet conditions, cold enough for hypothermia even) and the other potentially dangerously hot.  And decisions about what actions to take based on 45F could be very different than in 45C. Ignoring the units or scale being used could be fatal.  Though of course with weather temperature  just stepping outside will likely give a good idea if it is cool or very hot. 
 

With things more invisible more information is needed because we have less ability to just feel for ourselves. (Though in case of cv19, symptoms can help some and could be worth asking about.) As another example where it is less obvious than the weather temperature, it would be important to know if a Vitamin D level was reported in ng/ml or in nmol/L (and also what form of D was being tested — especially if someone is trying to get an optimal level not a merely above rickets level. 
 

And yet most people have no idea what cycle amplification levels or scales are being used, at any particular place, time, or situation. And most do not try to find out. USA used levels too high to be meaningful for a long time. It has had different definitions of cases in different circumstances.

 I have no idea what Australia is doing. 

I know that it is important to know for people looking at news to help make decisions for themselves or loved ones. 

I know you spend time looking into things deeply. This is an area that deserves your attention imo.  Consider it my love language trying, very probably a last time,  to speak to you. 
 

 

 

 

 

 

I did look into it a few months back and the conclusion I came to at that time was that it still can’t find what isn’t actually there. Is that incorrect in some way?  It’s just that for the health workers to have been run in a different way would require a conspiracy I think.  And I don’t tend to think that’s likely at this point.  I did actually send the question in to a q and a thing so I’ll let you know if I hear any different.  I couldn’t verify they were run the same way but most testing is being done the same way and retesting is being done as well.

 

Edited June 29, 2021 by Ausmumof3

[Ausmumof3]

Not sure what this guys background is but this seems slightly worrying?  Worth reading the whole thread. Anyone want to comment?

 

[Corraleno]

19 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Not sure what this guys background is but this seems slightly worrying?  Worth reading the whole thread. Anyone want to comment?

 

 

That seems extremely concerning — that's a lot of fully vaccinated people (green) transmitting the virus (mostly Delta) to others. This data is from Singapore, which has extremely good contact tracing. I'll link the original graphic below — if you toggle between the Vaccinated and Asymptomatic colors, you can see that most of the vaccinated people were asymptomatic, yet many still transmitted it.

https://covid.viz.sg

 

[Melissa Louise]

I always understood that being vaccinated was about reducing risk of hospitalization and death, and not about avoiding infection/transmission?

I'm still masking, social distancing etc as a result, even after full vaccination (admittedly, with a less effective vaccine). 

 

 

[KSera]

2 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

 

I always understood that being vaccinated was about reducing risk of hospitalization and death, and not about avoiding infection/transmission?

 

That was initially as much as we hoped for, I think. As time went on and we found the vaccines could prevent infection and transmission in most cases, along with finding that even asymptomatic cases could lead to long Covid, I think an increasing number of people have the goal of not getting infected if they can possibly help it. From a public health standpoint, the former is all we need. From an individual standpoint, the latter makes sense for a lot of people. If it turns out I might transmit delta even though fully vaccinated, that changes how I’m going to interact with my elderly parents, whose vaccines may not be sufficient to prevent serious illness for them. 

[Melissa Louise]

Just now, KSera said:

That was initially as much as we hoped for, I think. As time went on and we found the vaccines could prevent infection and transmission in most cases, along with finding that even asymptomatic cases could lead to long Covid, I think an increasing number of people have the goal of not getting infected if they can possibly help it. From a public health standpoint, the former is all we need. From an individual standpoint, the latter makes sense for a lot of people. If it turns out I might transmit delta even though fully vaccinated, that changes how I’m going to interact with my elderly parents, whose vaccines may not be sufficient to prevent serious illness for them. 

Right. I guess not keeping up has benefits. Delta is around in my city ATM. I just assumed I wasn't going to be particularly protected. 

[KSera]

2 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

Right. I guess not keeping up has benefits. Delta is around in my city ATM. I just assumed I wasn't going to be particularly protected. 

I think AZ is still most likely to protect you. There’s a chance you could get it and you likely wouldn’t be very sick, but it’s still a greater chance that your vaccine will protect you from getting it at all. I’m forgetting the percentage right now, but it’s pretty decent.

[Melissa Louise]

12 minutes ago, KSera said:

I think AZ is still most likely to protect you. There’s a chance you could get it and you likely wouldn’t be very sick, but it’s still a greater chance that your vaccine will protect you from getting it at all. I’m forgetting the percentage right now, but it’s pretty decent.

60% I think. 

[Corraleno]

19 minutes ago, KSera said:

I think AZ is still most likely to protect you. There’s a chance you could get it and you likely wouldn’t be very sick, but it’s still a greater chance that your vaccine will protect you from getting it at all. I’m forgetting the percentage right now, but it’s pretty decent.

AZ is only 60% effective against symptomatic infection with Delta, and likely lower if asymptomatic infection is counted. Higher protection against hospitalization and death, of course, but still a reasonably high chance of being infected, and possibly passing it on.

The scary thing about the Singapore stats is that they are using the mRNA vaccines, which seemed to show very high efficacy against even asymptomatic infection — to the extent that Rochelle Walensky rather recklessly stated that "vaccinated people don't carry the virus." The data from Singapore show pretty clearly that vaccinated people can not only carry it, they can transmit it to other people even when asymptomatic. 

Edited June 30, 2021 by Corraleno

[Ausmumof3]

57 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

I always understood that being vaccinated was about reducing risk of hospitalization and death, and not about avoiding infection/transmission?

I'm still masking, social distancing etc as a result, even after full vaccination (admittedly, with a less effective vaccine). 

 

 

It’s worrying to me in terms of the way our vaccine roll out has been done.  The most vulnerable group have been given astra Zeneca which has a lag of around 3.5 months to full immunity. The less vulnerable groups are receiving Pfizer with a two to four week lag to full immunity.  This means both my DH and myself will be fully vaccinated before my seventy year old parents.  If we are capable of still transmitting with Pfizer then we can make them sick easily.  This will be true for all younger vaccinated health and aged care workers also. If there’s still a high transmission rate with Pfizer we should have vaccinated all the vulnerable with the fastest to immunity vaccine first instead of giving them AZ.  Given recent evidence that combining Astra with Pfizer is also successful we should switch strategies and give everyone over 60 a second dose quickly even if that means using up the Pfizer on them.

In the long run it doesn’t matter but given the current outbreak going on it could be critical in the next two months. I should add my parents didn’t delay at all they took the first eligible slot.  They’ve done the right thing.  They plan to stay home mostly till they are fully vaccinated.  But if transmission is that common we have the wrong strategy.

[Melissa Louise]

5 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

It’s worrying to me in terms of the way our vaccine roll out has been done.  The most vulnerable group have been given astra Zeneca which has a lag of around 3.5 months to full immunity. The less vulnerable groups are receiving Pfizer with a two to four week lag to full immunity.  This means both my DH and myself will be fully vaccinated before my seventy year old parents.  If we are capable of still transmitting with Pfizer then we can make them sick easily.  This will be true for all younger vaccinated health and aged care workers also. If there’s still a high transmission rate with Pfizer we should have vaccinated all the vulnerable with the fastest to immunity vaccine first instead of giving them AZ.  Given recent evidence that combining Astra with Pfizer is also successful we should switch strategies and give everyone over 60 a second dose quickly even if that means using up the Pfizer on them.

In the long run it doesn’t matter but given the current outbreak going on it could be critical in the next two months. I should add my parents didn’t delay at all they took the first eligible slot.  They’ve done the right thing.  They plan to stay home mostly till they are fully vaccinated.  But if transmission is that common we have the wrong strategy.

Thanks for explaining. Makes sense. 

I suspect there isn't enough Pfizer to do that. 

We're in trouble here, I reckon. 

[Ausmumof3]

10 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

Thanks for explaining. Makes sense. 

I suspect there isn't enough Pfizer to do that. 

We're in trouble here, I reckon. 

22 today.

well there could be we just need to change priority so that people like me who are low risk aren’t eligible I guess.  Younger people might wait longer.

[Ausmumof3]

Also rumour has it we have cases in SA today

[popmom]

 

 I don't know why, but I get emails from Quora on this topic. The thread I read today is alarming. That very fleeting encounters--passing someone in a hallway is enought to transmit. 

This from the thread about Israel:

Note: This math is too simple because it doesn’t adjust for the percentage of unvaccinated adults in Israel who have some extra “natural immunity” from recovering from a previous Covid infection.

https://coronavirus.quora.com/WARNING-Delta-is-MUCH-more-infective-part-1-of-2-B-1-617-2-Delta-India-A-In-Israel-Delta-outbreaks-50-of-s

My husband has had the J and J vaccine. We were talking about it last night. He is probably going to get the Pfizer, too, if it's allowed. 

[Ausmumof3]

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-30/private-plane-allowed-into-adelaide-with-covid-cases-on-board/100254604
 

hmmm

[Melissa Louise]

Alice locking down. 

[Melissa in Australia]

58 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Also rumour has it we have cases in SA today

5 cases in SA 

[Ausmumof3]

No lockdown at this stage. Masking recommendations though.  The five cases are all one family linked to the mine and they seem to have isolated we’re just worried about the airport transit and the tester apparently.  Another example of a whole family going down with it.

[Jean in Newcastle]

2 hours ago, Melissa Louise said:

I always understood that being vaccinated was about reducing risk of hospitalization and death, and not about avoiding infection/transmission?

I'm still masking, social distancing etc as a result, even after full vaccination (admittedly, with a less effective vaccine). 

 

 

Well, I could go about unmasked and be fairly safe because if I do get it while vaccinated I will most likely be asymptomatic. But I could infect one or more of the many people who are unvaccinated. While some of them are just foolish in rejecting vaccines (in my opinion), some can’t get the vaccine due to accessibility issues or other poverty induced reasons and some might be medically contraindicated. So I am masking for them. 

[prairiewindmomma]

Or, you are masking for people like me who are fully vaccinated but not adequately protected due to their lack of immunoresponse to the vaccine. Thank you. ❤️ 
 

 

 

 

[Jean in Newcastle]

1 hour ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Or, you are masking for people like me who are fully vaccinated but not adequately protected due to their lack of immunoresponse to the vaccine. Thank you. ❤️ 
 

 

 

 

I could be in this same category too but I don't know how I would know?  Were you tested? 

[Arcadia]

16 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Not sure what this guys background is but this seems slightly worrying?  Worth reading the whole thread. Anyone want to comment?

 

 

16 hours ago, Corraleno said:

 

That seems extremely concerning — that's a lot of fully vaccinated people (green) transmitting the virus (mostly Delta) to others. This data is from Singapore, which has extremely good contact tracing. I'll link the original graphic below — if you toggle between the Vaccinated and Asymptomatic colors, you can see that most of the vaccinated people were asymptomatic, yet many still transmitted it.

https://covid.viz.sg

 

Today’s report from Singapore’s  Ministry of Health https://www.moh.gov.sg/docs/librariesprovider5/pressroom/press-releases/annexes-(7)71dc310f0e39421e93aafdc8ca73c4fd.pdf

ETA: 89.5% of unvaccinated is asymptomatic or has mild symptoms out of 612 people 

Edited June 30, 2021 by Arcadia

[Corraleno]

1 hour ago, Arcadia said:

 

Today’s report from Singapore’s  Ministry of Health https://www.moh.gov.sg/docs/librariesprovider5/pressroom/press-releases/annexes-(7)71dc310f0e39421e93aafdc8ca73c4fd.pdf

ETA: 89.5% of unvaccinated is asymptomatic or has mild symptoms out of 612 people 

Without knowing exactly how the vaxxed and unvaxxed populations there match up in terms of age and health factors, those stats suggest a pretty low efficacy against infection by Delta. (I'm guessing the reason for the lower number of partially vaxxed is because that is a transitory category that only lasts a few weeks, whereas once you're fully vaxxed you stay fully vaxxed.) The relative lack of hospitalization and death is good, but the fact that so many fully vaxxed people are getting infected, and many of them are passing it on, is definitely not good news, and it contradicts the advice that vaxxed people don't need to mask.

[KSera]

Do we know what percentage of the population is vaccinated in Singapore? Those stats look significantly better or worse depending on whether they are mostly unvaccinated or mostly vaccinated. 
 

eta: looks like 37% fully vaccinated and 57% with one dose (those numbers would’ve been a little lower at the time the recorded infections happened). 

Edited June 30, 2021 by KSera

[Penelope]

11 minutes ago, KSera said:

Do we know what percentage of the population is vaccinated in Singapore? Those stats look significantly better or worse depending on whether they are mostly unvaccinated or mostly vaccinated. 

It’s pretty high.

https://www.moh.gov.sg/covid-19/vaccination
Population 5.9 million

2.1 mil full

3.3 partial as of June 28.

ETA the numbers are also on the report Arcadia linked, in one of the graphs.

Edited June 30, 2021 by Penelope

[Penelope]

CDC director confirmed the advice today that vaccinated people in the US don’t need to mask. 
 

Singapore has only 3 people in the ICU in a country of nearly 6 million. Hope it stays that way or improves, but seems like a success when the few vaccinated infections are nearly all asymptomatic. Looking through the report, I sort of wished we could have seen that level of data in states, or at least counties, here. As it is, we saw no justification for some of the restrictions that were put in place, since they public health for the most part did not show us where infections where occurring. 
 

But from another perspective, I am really glad we don’t have that level of data made public, because of privacy concerns. In this country, naming streets, places of worship and names of businesses could lead to stigma.

Edited June 30, 2021 by Penelope

[Arcadia]

19 minutes ago, KSera said:

eta: looks like 37% fully vaccinated and 57% with one dose (those numbers would’ve been a little lower at the time the recorded infections happened). 

 

12 minutes ago, Penelope said:

It’s pretty high.

https://www.moh.gov.sg/covid-19/vaccination
Population 5.9 million

2.1 mil full

3.3 partial as of June 28.

ETA the numbers are also on the report Arcadia linked, in one of the graphs.

It’s on Figure 5 as Penelope mentioned. Vaccination priority went by age group. My SIL who is in her late 30s finally gets her turn. My brother is 41 and just had his first dose recently. Students sitting for National exams are having priority now, while the rest of the students are lower priority.

[Ausmumof3]

2 hours ago, Penelope said:

It’s pretty high.

https://www.moh.gov.sg/covid-19/vaccination
Population 5.9 million

2.1 mil full

3.3 partial as of June 28.

ETA the numbers are also on the report Arcadia linked, in one of the graphs.

So around 36pc fully vaccinated and they make up 21pc of cases.  Still good news on a symptomatic front but not good news on a sterilising immunity one.

I know it’s been mentioned before but I’ve forgotten which vaccine were they using?.

[Arcadia]

1 hour ago, Ausmumof3 said:

So around 36pc fully vaccinated and they make up 21pc of cases.  Still good news on a symptomatic front but not good news on a sterilising immunity one.

I know it’s been mentioned before but I’ve forgotten which vaccine were they using?.

Pfizer and Moderna. They haven’t approved Jansen & Jansen.

My parents had Pfizer. My brother and wife had Moderna. Pfizer is the only one approved for teens so it’s in “short supply” for adults as they are getting the kids taking National exams (Cambridge GCE) vaccinated.

ETA: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/covid-19-cases-critical-condition-icu-above-60-age-moh-15125884

”SINGAPORE: All of Singapore's COVID-19 cases who were in critical condition in the intensive care unit (ICU) over the past week were above the age of 60.

This was according to data released by the Ministry of Health (MOH) in its daily update on the coronavirus situation on Wednesday (Jun 30).

Out of 133 cases warded in hospital, there were eight cases of serious illness requiring oxygen supplementation and four cases in critical condition in the ICU on Wednesday. All four cases in the ICU were aged above 60.”

Edited June 30, 2021 by Arcadia

[AmandaVT]

On 6/18/2021 at 12:21 AM, Terabith said:

I'm visiting my parents for the first time since pre-pandemic, and my mom handed me a book she just bought that she hadn't read yet:  The Premonition, by Michael Lewis. It's about the pandemic. It starts in like 2004 with the beginning of the first pandemic plan.  

Y'all it is UNCANNY.  The thought process of the experts in the field, the back of the envelope math, everything.....is like reading this thread.  I found myself wondering if one of them was on the Hive or married to someone on the Hive, but that doesn't make sense.  

It's also a really fascinating read.  Highly recommend.  

I am almost finished with this book - and I agree, this thread was ON it right from the start! I've had multiple people ask me how I knew so much in the beginning of the pandemic and they gave me confused looks when I said I learned if from my homeschool forums. 😂

[Penelope]

5 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

So around 36pc fully vaccinated and they make up 21pc of cases.  Still good news on a symptomatic front but not good news on a sterilising immunity one.

I don’t know. How many of the asymptomatic vaccinated people actually gave it to someone else? I didn’t spend a lot of time on the figure up further in the thread, didn’t see an explanation of how to interpret it. 
 

Even the studies that showed lower transmission weren’t 100%. I can’t remember the numbers. Was it proven to be more than 5 or 10% in Singapore? 
 

The studies that show that vaccinated people don’t transmit were all done pretty shortly after vaccination, I think. I wonder if sterilizing immunity is only a function of variants, or also of time from vaccination and some decline of antibody levels. I don’t know if there will be much further information on this from the US or not, since testing of asymptomatic vaccinated people isn’t recommended. 
 

Does everyone still mask everywhere in Singapore?

[Ausmumof3]

5 minutes ago, Penelope said:

I don’t know. How many of the asymptomatic vaccinated people actually gave it to someone else? I didn’t spend a lot of time on the figure up further in the thread, didn’t see an explanation of how to interpret it. 
 

Even the studies that showed lower transmission weren’t 100%. I can’t remember the numbers. Was it proven to be more than 5 or 10% in Singapore? 
 

The studies that show that vaccinated people don’t transmit were all done pretty shortly after vaccination, I think. I wonder if sterilizing immunity is only a function of variants, or also of time from vaccination and some decline of antibody levels. I don’t know if there will be much further information on this from the US or not, since testing of asymptomatic vaccinated people isn’t recommended. 
 

Does everyone still mask everywhere in Singapore?

Yep I’m wondering that and also whether it will prove to be different for the mRNA vaccines versus the adenovirus vaccines 

[TCB]

6 hours ago, Arcadia said:

Pfizer and Moderna. They haven’t approved Jansen & Jansen.

My parents had Pfizer. My brother and wife had Moderna. Pfizer is the only one approved for teens so it’s in “short supply” for adults as they are getting the kids taking National exams (Cambridge GCE) vaccinated.

ETA: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/covid-19-cases-critical-condition-icu-above-60-age-moh-15125884

”SINGAPORE: All of Singapore's COVID-19 cases who were in critical condition in the intensive care unit (ICU) over the past week were above the age of 60.

This was according to data released by the Ministry of Health (MOH) in its daily update on the coronavirus situation on Wednesday (Jun 30).

Out of 133 cases warded in hospital, there were eight cases of serious illness requiring oxygen supplementation and four cases in critical condition in the ICU on Wednesday. All four cases in the ICU were aged above 60.”

Wow we’ve got way more than that number in our podunk little hospital in the Midwest. Low vaccination rates here.

[Arcadia]

17 minutes ago, Penelope said:

Does everyone still mask everywhere in Singapore?

Yes. https://www.moh.gov.sg/covid-19/faqs/faqs---masks-and-personal-protective-equipment-(ppe)

”Updated as of 21 Jun 2021

Masks and Personal Protective Equipment (PPE)

 [New] Do I have to keep my mask on when dining-in at F&B outlets?

 From 21 June 2021, when dining-in resumes, masks are required to be worn in F&B outlets. Diners should only take off masks when eating or drinking and put them back on after.

 

Why and when must I wear a mask?

A:

It is mandatory for all persons who are 6 years old and above to wear a mask when leaving their homes. Masks help to reduce the expulsion and transmission of droplets, which is the predominant route of transmission of COVID-19. It is therefore important for you to wear a mask, so that you will not spread the infection to others if you are infected. This is important even if you feel well, because you may be infected but asymptomatic.

It may be difficult for persons who are out in the community to avoid contact with others completely, including with infected persons who have very mild symptoms or may not show any symptoms. The wearing of masks is therefore an important precaution we can all take.

Everyone must wear a mask when outside of their homes. This applies on public transport, taxis, private hire cars, walking to or at markets, and also for permitted enterprise workers at all workplace premises, whether they are frontline staff (such as food handlers, cashiers and bus drivers) or performing back office functions (such as data entry personnel and payroll executives). Individuals may remove their mask while engaging in outdoor or strenuous exercise (e.g. running/ jogging/cycling, contact sports/games, static exercises and drills including taichi and qigong, brisk walking or walking up hilly terrain), but they must put it back on after completing exercise. Those walking at a normal pace would be required to wear a mask”

[Ausmumof3]

Sydney has 24 today.  No new ones here, WA or VIC. 1 for NT who is Howard springs quarantine and a couple for Qld.  NSW is worrying because of the hospital worker/s and the number that don’t seem to have known links at this point.

[Ausmumof3]

Just in case anyone needs to see this my US geography is not great 

[Penelope]

55 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

Yes. https://www.moh.gov.sg/covid-19/faqs/faqs---masks-and-personal-protective-equipment-(ppe)

”Updated as of 21 Jun 2021

Masks and Personal Protective Equipment (PPE)

 [New] Do I have to keep my mask on when dining-in at F&B outlets?

 From 21 June 2021, when dining-in resumes, masks are required to be worn in F&B outlets. Diners should only take off masks when eating or drinking and put them back on after.

 

Why and when must I wear a mask?

A:

It is mandatory for all persons who are 6 years old and above to wear a mask when leaving their homes. Masks help to reduce the expulsion and transmission of droplets, which is the predominant route of transmission of COVID-19. It is therefore important for you to wear a mask, so that you will not spread the infection to others if you are infected. This is important even if you feel well, because you may be infected but asymptomatic.

It may be difficult for persons who are out in the community to avoid contact with others completely, including with infected persons who have very mild symptoms or may not show any symptoms. The wearing of masks is therefore an important precaution we can all take.

Everyone must wear a mask when outside of their homes. This applies on public transport, taxis, private hire cars, walking to or at markets, and also for permitted enterprise workers at all workplace premises, whether they are frontline staff (such as food handlers, cashiers and bus drivers) or performing back office functions (such as data entry personnel and payroll executives). Individuals may remove their mask while engaging in outdoor or strenuous exercise (e.g. running/ jogging/cycling, contact sports/games, static exercises and drills including taichi and qigong, brisk walking or walking up hilly terrain), but they must put it back on after completing exercise. Those walking at a normal pace would be required to wear a mask”

So does anyone know from that chart with the green dots, what the actual rate of transmission from asymptomatic vaccinated are, and do they say anything about where it is occurring? It seems like with their detailed level of contact tracing, it would give some idea of whether masks were helping prevent transmission, and how much.

[Ausmumof3]

6 minutes ago, Penelope said:

So does anyone know from that chart with the green dots, what the actual rate of transmission from asymptomatic vaccinated are, and do they say anything about where it is occurring? It seems like with their detailed level of contact tracing, it would give some idea of whether masks were helping prevent transmission, and how much.

I think anywhere there’s two connected green dots it’s a vaccinated to vaccinated transmission.  There’s not loads but some. Where there’s green and grey connected I guess it depends which way transmission went.  Did the vaccinated person get it and transmit asymptomatically?  Or did it go the other way and just stop there.  If also looks at a glance like the middle cluster stopped once it hit vaccinated people and the upper left kept going.  I wonder why?

Edited July 1, 2021 by Ausmumof3

[Penelope]

17 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I think anywhere there’s two connected green dots it’s a vaccinated to vaccinated transmission.  There’s not loads but some. Where there’s green and grey connected I guess it depends which way transmission went.  Did the vaccinated person get it and transmit asymptomatically?  Or did it go the other way and just stop there.  If also looks at a glance like the middle cluster stopped once it hit vaccinated people and the upper left kept going.  I wonder why?

Here’s the direct link for anyone else who wants to look. https://covid.viz.sg
 

It doesn’t seem to say anything about household vs out of household, though they must know that. It’s also clear, and I’m sure obvious given how most are asymptomatic, that they are missing a decent number of infections. Last year I remember reading that even wIth great contact tracing, it can be difficult to assume who gave it to whom, especially in households, because incubation periods can vary so much. The person who has symptoms first may not be the person who was infected first and gave  to others. 

Edited July 1, 2021 by Penelope

[Arcadia]

52 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I think anywhere there’s two connected green dots it’s a vaccinated to vaccinated transmission.  There’s not loads but some. Where there’s green and grey connected I guess it depends which way transmission went.  Did the vaccinated person get it and transmit asymptomatically?  Or did it go the other way and just stop there.  If also looks at a glance like the middle cluster stopped once it hit vaccinated people and the upper left kept going.  I wonder why?

It is radial. So there are some going from vaccinated to unvaccinated.

Which is the upper left you are referring to?

For the MINDSville@Napiri cluster of 32 cases (this is an adult care facility), (first photo)

"All 255 residents and employees at MINDSville@Napiri were tested. The facility serves a total of 112 residents, it said in a Facebook post on Wednesday night.

A total of 91 per cent of the staff members and residents at the home have also been vaccinated in February and March, said MSF."

For the food centre cluster of 91 cases,

 

Edited July 1, 2021 by Arcadia
formatting messed up

[KSera]

41 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

Okay A total of 91 per cent of the staff members and residents at the home have also been vaccinated in February and March, said MSF."

For the food centre cluster of 91 cases,

 

I find it really unnerving that so many vaccinated people caught it from that one person. I wonder if those were all residents, in which case they would be elderly and have less robust immune responses. Also strikes me to wonder if there could have been a problem with the vaccination process there. Batches left out of cold storage too long, or something like that. When my ds got vaccinated, it was hot out and I asked the guy giving them how they handle the temp requirements. He told me that it’s a super short period of time they can be out of the regular refrigerator, so on hot days, they leave them in there until right before giving each dose, and just warm the syringe to body temperature by wrapping their hand around it to warm up on the short walk from fridge to car (drive through). Seems easy for a place to screw that up if they aren’t being conscientious. That’s probably not what happened, but my brain seems to be looking for less concerning explanations than that the vaccine is failing that often with this variant (although, I guess it’s not failing—people are not getting as sick). 

[Arcadia]

56 minutes ago, KSera said:

I find it really unnerving that so many vaccinated people caught it from that one person. I wonder if those were all residents, in which case they would be elderly and have less robust immune responses. 

If you are talking about the MINDS cluster of 32 cases, the age range would not be all elderly. MINDS is actually an acronym for Movement for the Intellectually Disabled of Singapore.

”Designed to provide professional care, accommodation, and protection for persons with special needs age six years old and above, MINDSville@Napiri offers a safe sanctuary where our residents foster a sense of belonging while developing essential skills across several domains.”

These were the first few cases reported on June 2nd https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/covid-19-cases-mindsville-napiri-adult-disability-home-27-cases-14934222

”The four cases added to Wednesday's case count were all fully vaccinated against COVID-19. 

They include a 30-year-old Philippine national who is a nursing aide at the home. She developed a runny nose, cough and sore throat on May 29 but did not seek medical attention. She was placed on quarantine on Jun 1 and tested positive on the same day.

The other three cases - Singaporean women aged 47, 55 and 64 - are residents at MINDSville@Napiri. All experienced symptoms of COVID-19.”

Edited July 1, 2021 by Arcadia
Typo

[Corraleno]

13 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Just in case anyone needs to see this my US geography is not great 

More details on this:

"JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. -- Some COVID-19 patients are being turned away from an overwhelmed Springfield hospital where cases are surging and taken to less-stressed hospitals hundreds of miles away in Kansas City and St. Louis. 

CoxHealth system president Steve Edwards said Tuesday the hospital in Springfield was on "COVID diversion" as the Delta variant gains momentum in the southwest part of the state, where large swaths of residents aren't vaccinated, the Springfield News-Leaders reported. 

He said four Cox patients recently were transferred to BJC HealthCare, a St. Louis-area health system with 14 hospitals including Barnes-Jewish, a big teaching hospital tied to Washington University's medical school. Another four Cox patients have been transferred to St. Luke's Health System in Kansas City, Edwards said."

There's also an outbreak in an office building: "Meanwhile, a COVID-19 outbreak hit an office building for state workers in Jefferson City. The Office of Administration on Tuesday said 15 employees working within the Truman State Office Building had tested positive, the St. Louis Post-Dispatch reported. "Due to this concentration of positive test results, over 100 employees in this area and the close contacts of the infected employees were offered COVID-19 testing," Chris Moreland, spokesman for the Office of Administration, said in an email. "Close contacts of the infected employees in the impacted area were asked to work from home pending their test results."

https://www.semissourian.com/story/2892419.html