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DS got home 3 hours ago!  ❤️❤️

Update-  my youngest is not only short of breath, coughing, dizzy, nausaues, and with headache-  she is also confused.  I called our doctor and talked with him and she is going to be going to the ER.

Thought I'd post a pic of my dd, getting ready to spend another day in a coronavirus triage tent!  

15 hours ago, bookbard said:

Yes, I'm starting to feel slightly worried about this. I hope they sort out whether it's a chance thing or whether related to the A-Z vaccine. If it is . . . I'd rather wait for the Pfizer! I know a young girl - 15 yr old - who has ended up with multiple blood clots after a simple surgical procedure, and her whole life has changed. She can't sit and watch a movie without getting breathless, so much has been lost. 

 

13 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Honestly I think we’re making a mistake now putting everything into the Astra Zeneca basket.  Less because of the clotting issue which will impact maybe one in 100,000 people and more because of how ineffective it seems to be against the variants compared to the others.  And at this point we don’t know if people who’ve had Astra Zeneca can have a different vaccine in six months if that becomes necessary.  

There are reports (e.g. here) that the AZ vaccine is causing some people to develop powerful antibodies to platelets, which is leading to the clots.

AZ is a viral vector vaccine, but they chose to use a chimpanzee adenovirus instead of a human one. The theory behind that is to ensure that humans won't have any preexisting immunity to the vector and therefore mount an immune response to the adenovirus instead of the SAR2 virus.

I've been trying to find out if any other covid vaccines are using the ChAd chimp virus, but so far I haven't found any. In addition to J&J, the Sputnik (Russia) and CanSino (China) vaccines use human adenoviruses; they chose rare strains to avoid the issue with pre-existing immunity rather than going with an adenovirus from another species.

I don't think there should be a problem with people who've had the AZ vaccine getting a booster from another manufacturer, since no other manufacture (AFAIK) is using the ChAd vector, so you shouldn't have to worry that having antibodies to that particular adenovirus would keep you from mounting a sufficient response to another vaccine.

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57 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

 

There are reports (e.g. here) that the AZ vaccine is causing some people to develop powerful antibodies to platelets, which is leading to the clots.

AZ is a viral vector vaccine, but they chose to use a chimpanzee adenovirus instead of a human one. The theory behind that is to ensure that humans won't have any preexisting immunity to the vector and therefore mount an immune response to the adenovirus instead of the SAR2 virus.

I've been trying to find out if any other covid vaccines are using the ChAd chimp virus, but so far I haven't found any. In addition to J&J, the Sputnik (Russia) and CanSino (China) vaccines use human adenoviruses; they chose rare strains to avoid the issue with pre-existing immunity rather than going with an adenovirus from another species.

I don't think there should be a problem with people who've had the AZ vaccine getting a booster from another manufacturer, since no other manufacture (AFAIK) is using the ChAd vector, so you shouldn't have to worry that having antibodies to that particular adenovirus would keep you from mounting a sufficient response to another vaccine.

Sputnik is also using adenovirus but I’m not sure what type.  I know they are using two different ones to avoid the body reacting to the adenovirus not the Covid spike second time round.

 

edited to add Johnson and Johnson also uses adenovirus but a human one.  I imagine the one issue with that is if that someone has recently had that virus the vaccine may not work as well.

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27 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Sputnik is also using adenovirus but I’m not sure what type.  I know they are using two different ones to avoid the body reacting to the adenovirus not the Covid spike second time round.

 

edited to add Johnson and Johnson also uses adenovirus but a human one.  I imagine the one issue with that is if that someone has recently had that virus the vaccine may not work as well.

Yes, that's what I said — J&J, Sputnik, and CanSIno are all using a rare strain of human adenovirus, to prevent previous infection from interfering with immune response to the covid vax.  I cannot find reports on any other vaccine that is using the chimpanzee adenovirus except AZ.

My impression is that this ChAd adenovirus is something that the Oxford vaccine group have been specifically working on, and they have tried in the past to use it in vaccines for malaria and ebola, but I don't know if those were successful. (ETA: apparently they were not successful)

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France is back into lock down and Italy is having a 3 day lockdown over Easter to try to get ahead of the 3rd wave.

Reports from Brazil seem to be pretty horrifying.

china is reporting a number of cases (26?) which is maybe an indicator that they have another outbreak.

QLD was good today, we are reopening borders.  Really hoping it stays that way and we can see friends soon.

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2 hours ago, Corraleno said:

It must be covid, I don't believe AZ has ever produced a vaccine before.

 

I wonder if they are looking at it as a less worthwhile vaccine to produce then given all the various issues.

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9 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

What do we know about the P1 variant?

the reports about it being more transmissible and hospitalising more young people seem worrying? This from British Columbia.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-covid-19-variant-spreading-rapidly-in-bc/

In good news Pfizer says their vaccine protects against it.https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9423329/Coronavirus-Pfizer-vaccine-protect-against-Brazilian-South-African-Covid-variants.html?fbclid=IwAR0yKf8baxtUpVQX3v6MQYSAj3Brh2ojfDTNXr6ajN_sHpGewApGDxQeyj0

 

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2 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I wonder if they are looking at it as a less worthwhile vaccine to produce then given all the various issues.

Surely it is because of the error there that lead to the millions of doses being wasted. J & J is already approved in the US so makes sense to produce that if you’re only going to make one.

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4 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I wonder if they are looking at it as a less worthwhile vaccine to produce then given all the various issues.

Emergent BioSolutions had contracts with both J&J and AZ, but they mixed up the ingredients and ruined 15 million doses of J&J. So the federal government decided it was safer to restrict that facility to a single vaccine, and J&J is already approved and actively shipping doses, so AZ needs to find another manufacturer. The article did say that the US likely won't use the AZ vaccine, so anything they produce in the US will likely go to Canada or Mexico.

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https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2778234
 

Death stats for the US for 2020 show the overall suicide rate was down on previous years.  I do wonder what drove the increase in unintended injuries?  There was also a big increase in deaths by diabetes and heart disease.  Maybe that was people not seeking medical care or maybe some of those were covid deaths that weren’t attributed given the intersection between those risk factors and covid?  

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2 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I do wonder what drove the increase in unintended injuries?

The article you linked said it was largely driven by drug overdoses.

Re: mental health

And possibly telehealth? Maybe easier than driving to get therapy?

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Does anyone have up to date information on Ivermectin? I watched a Dr Campbell video about it but couldn’t really find anything recent from other places I trust and like to listen to like Medcram. When you read the comments under the Campbell video there are a huge number of crazy, unsubstantiated claims made which makes me want to hear it elsewhere as well. Don’t get me wrong I find Dr Campbell to be straight forward etc, but comments from bizarre followers are a bit off putting.

I would really like to see more info about it because my friend, recently returned from Brazil, said Ivermectin was used completely routinely there, and was surprised that wasn’t the case here, and yet things are not going well there, which seems strange given the claimed huge reduction in mortality/disease length etc claimed by those promoting it.

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7 minutes ago, TCB said:

Does anyone have up to date information on Ivermectin? I watched a Dr Campbell video about it but couldn’t really find anything recent from other places I trust and like to listen to like Medcram. When you read the comments under the Campbell video there are a huge number of crazy, unsubstantiated claims made which makes me want to hear it elsewhere as well. Don’t get me wrong I find Dr Campbell to be straight forward etc, but comments from bizarre followers are a bit off putting.

I would really like to see more info about it because my friend, recently returned from Brazil, said Ivermectin was used completely routinely there, and was surprised that wasn’t the case here, and yet things are not going well there, which seems strange given the claimed huge reduction in mortality/disease length etc claimed by those promoting it.

This is from December 2020.  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7747809/

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@TCB  I think John Campbell is sincere and not out to mislead people, but he does not vet his sources well or look critically at many of the stories he shares if they align with his beliefs on HCQ, ivermectin, Vit D, etc. I stopped watching him after he touted the seriously flawed Spanish study on Vit D as "extraordinary proof" of efficacy, and then did a whole video based on the idea that someone was immunocompromised when the study actually said immunocompetent. 

Here is an article on the disaster that is unfolding in Brazil despite the widespread use of both HCQ and ivermectin. India is also having a massive spike despite using both of those drugs. They just don't work. There was a recent RCT on ivermectin that showed no benefit. Excerpt from the article:

In Brazil, the new epicenter of the world's COVID-19 pandemic, hospitals are overflowing, health care workers are stretched beyond their limits and cemeteries operate through the night to keep up with demand.

"It's super, super scary," said Fabio Biolchini, an emergency coordinator at Doctors Without Borders in Brazil. Intensive care units in 20 of Brazil's 27 states are above 100% occupancy, Biolchini explained, and thousands are waiting for an open bed in intensive care units. Second only to the United States, Brazil has reported more than 12.8 million infections and 325,284 deaths from the virus as of Friday

Before the variants were identified, misinformation about preventing and treating COVID-19 was being spread from person to person, including at the highest levels of government. "People in Brazil are still denying science," Biolchini said. "We're talking about hydroxychloroquine and drugs that supposedly help you avoid COVID. This is clearly not what the science says."

While there aren't official statistics on how many people in Brazil are taking hydroxychloroquine and other unproven medications to prevent COVID-19, Dr. Bruno Caramelli, a cardiologist and professor at the University of São Paulo, said it's common among his patients to have taken, or still be taking, drugs like hydroxychloroquine for COVID-19.

This week, a patient of Caramelli's who owns a cattle farm in the western part of São Paulo state, called him panicked. His wife, family and his employees on the farm had all contracted COVID-19 and were taking hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin, an anti-parasite drug, for treatment. "I'm breathless," the patient told him. With local hospitals overrun, Caramelli convinced the patient and his wife to stop taking hydroxychloroquine and get an ambulance to São Paulo.

Ivermectin is a safe drug for treating parasites, according to Nogueira, but Brazilians using the drug for COVID-19 without a prescription is already having consequences. "We are seeing people getting liver disease," Nogueira said. "It's dangerous."

Unproven, quick-fix treatments aren't just dangerous, they're also a distraction from measures that do stop the spread of the virus, like social distancing and masks.

"It gives the people a fake feeling of safety," Nogueira said of ineffective preventative treatments. Vaccination, the one preventative treatment that has been shown to be effective against COVID-19, isn't widespread in Brazil yet. Just 7% of Brazil's population had received one dose of the COVID-19 vaccine as of April 1.

Quick fixes like hydroxychloroquine take "the need for isolation, lockdown and real treatment out of the focus," Caramelli said. "That's why we're seeing an escalating number of deaths."
...

In March, Caramelli started a Change.org petition asking the Federal Counsel of Medicine, Brazil's medical regulatory agency, to officially come out against what's known colloquially as a "COVID kit," a COVID treatment plan of unproven dtugs like chloroquine, hydroxychloroquine and invermectin. If the petition, which now has more than 18,800 signatures, is officially taken up by the CFM, doctors who continue to prescribe the unproven drugs for COVID-19 could be suspended or punished.

Screen Shot 2021-04-05 at 11.29.35 AM.png

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13 minutes ago, TCB said:

Does anyone have up to date information on Ivermectin? I watched a Dr Campbell video about it but couldn’t really find anything recent from other places I trust and like to listen to like Medcram. When you read the comments under the Campbell video there are a huge number of crazy, unsubstantiated claims made which makes me want to hear it elsewhere as well. Don’t get me wrong I find Dr Campbell to be straight forward etc, but comments from bizarre followers are a bit off putting.

I would really like to see more info about it because my friend, recently returned from Brazil, said Ivermectin was used completely routinely there, and was surprised that wasn’t the case here, and yet things are not going well there, which seems strange given the claimed huge reduction in mortality/disease length etc claimed by those promoting it.

I'd love to see that, too. When I was looking it up, there were lots of fairly sketchy trials that I couldn't trust, but I haven't seen a good trial. I wonder if one has been run... 

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16 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

Thanks for linking that! The authors argue that HCQ and ivermectin are not only dangerous because of their own side effects, they may actually make people more vulnerable to infection and less likely to develop immunity if they are infected:

"[H]ydroxychloroquine and ivermectin, which have not been proven to be clinically efficient for COVID-19 2 , 3 , are widely distributed as miracle pills to constrain virus transmission at the expense of protective measures. Hydroxychloroquine may also inhibit antibody responses to vaccines and, in addition to its highly undesirable effects in the clinical-epidemiological setting of COVID-19, its indiscriminate use could impact the studies investigating immunity to this virus as well as vaccine testing 4 . In spite of this, hydroxychloroquine is still being peddled by some health professionals under pressure from politicians and government authorities.

Ivermectin is another controversial drug that is being used not only to treat but also to prevent COVID-19 in Brazil, despite lack of any confirmation of its effect on clinical outcomes 5 . The use of ivermectin (and, for that matter, antibiotics) may also hinder immunity to the severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus (SARS-CoV)-2 because they can modify the user's intestinal microbiota 6 and thus impact their ability to mount effective responses to several vaccines 7 , 8 . It is reasonable to expect that ivermectin and antibiotics, in general, will also affect immunity to SARS-CoV-2, especially in those who employ ivermectin prophylactically, as occurs in Brazil.

Therefore, the consequences of this widespread self-medication for COVID-19 could potentially contribute to the infection spreading and long-term prevalence of the epidemic in this country."

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Thanks for those articles @Corraleno and @Jean in Newcastle ! 
If you read the comments on virtually any of the videos about Covid, even the calmer, more measured videos, there are endless people making conspiracy claims. I don’t understand how they can listen to well presented evidence and yet completely not question their own opinion on the subject. I’m not expecting everyone to change their opinion, but at least consider something from another angle. And these comments, sneering at what was said, and reaffirming their belief 100%, are inevitably  followed with - they know it’s true because their brother and sister in law took it and they had a mild illness and were fine! 

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RCT of 400 patients, published last month in JAMA:

"Among adults with mild COVID-19, a 5-day course of ivermectin, compared with placebo, did not significantly improve the time to resolution of symptoms. The findings do not support the use of ivermectin for treatment of mild COVID-19, although larger trials may be needed to understand the effects of ivermectin on other clinically relevant outcomes."

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4 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

RCT of 400 patients, published last month in JAMA:

"Among adults with mild COVID-19, a 5-day course of ivermectin, compared with placebo, did not significantly improve the time to resolution of symptoms. The findings do not support the use of ivermectin for treatment of mild COVID-19, although larger trials may be needed to understand the effects of ivermectin on other clinically relevant outcomes."

I'd really love a study out of the US or Europe or something... not that you can't have good studies out of other places, but I know that a lot of the positive studies about ivermectin were coming out of places whose research culture I didn't understand well. 

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9 minutes ago, TCB said:

Thanks for those articles @Corraleno and @Jean in Newcastle ! 
If you read the comments on virtually any of the videos about Covid, even the calmer, more measured ones, there are endless people making conspiracy claims. I don’t understand how they can listen to well presented evidence and yet completely not question their own opinion on the subject. I’m not expecting everyone to change their opinion, but at least consider something from another angle. And these comments, sneering at what was said, and reaffirming their belief 100%, are inevitable followed with - they know it’s true because their brother and sister in law took it and they had a mild illness and were fine! 

Yes, and the same True Believers used to post the fact that cases were lower in India and Brazil as proof that HCQ and ivermectin work, since use of those drugs is widespread there. Now that those two countries are having massive outbreaks, those same people are either silent or they claim that Brazil and India no longer use those drugs (which is totally false) and that is what is causing the outbreak. Their beliefs become a closed system, impervious to facts.

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This episode of TWIV discusses the JAMA article about ivermectin.  It stuck in my mind because the commentator, Daniel Griffin, has a ton of experience with ivermectin in the context of treating parasitic diseases.

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1 hour ago, Ausmumof3 said:

India had over 100,000 cases yesterday.  The spike is very very sudden I wonder what’s driving it?  

The B117 variant is very widespread there, and they also have their own homegrown "double mutant" variant that includes the infamous E484K mutation (which is also present in the SA and Brazilian variants) as well as another mutation that makes it much more infectious. And that particular Indian variant has now been found in California.

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54 minutes ago, kand said:

It’s so frustrating to see people continue to claim that they’re not worried about Covid because they have their “Covid kit” ready. I’ve seen that here on this forum even, spoken as if it were simple truth that this combo of drugs is a sure fix to prevent problems from Covid. 

When you look at what is happening in India and Brazil, where HCQ and ivermectin are in common use but vaccine rates are very low (<7% Brazil, <5% India), versus the US, where we don't use HCQ or ivermectin but have already vaccinated a third of the population, including 40% of all adults, it's clear that the people who continue to spread lies and misinformation, in order to convince naive people to avoid the vaccine and just take a cocktail of vitamins and horse wormer instead, are truly dangerous. 

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Didn't read this yet, but thought it might be of interest:

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/fullarticle/2778229?guestAccessKey=43aa3546-0434-4397-b992-5e4806ea7953&utm_source=For_The_Media&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=ftm_links&utm_content=tfl&utm_term=040521&fbclid=IwAR18-M7t-CB6YnwKOxJR2Vq4zR76T6SRsU8qn4iAXVZJSh9IvSQP3LFuJhM

Quote

Our model suggests that each COVID-19 death leaves 0.078 children aged 0 to 17 parentally bereaved. This represents a 17.5% to 20.2% increase in parental bereavement absent COVID-19. Although the bereavement multiplier is small, it translates into large numbers of children who have lost a parent. As of February 2021, 37 300 children aged 0 to 17 years had lost at least 1 parent due to COVID-19, three-quarters of whom were adolescents (Table). Of these, 20 600 were non-Hispanic White children and 7600 were non-Hispanic Black children. When we rely on excess deaths, we estimate that 43 000 children have lost a parent. A natural herd immunity strategy that results in 1.5 million deaths4 demonstrates the potential effect of inaction: 116 900 parentally bereaved children.

 

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https://www.aappublications.org/news/2021/03/01/covid19-sports-guidance-030121
 

American Academy of Paediatrics recommends that children who have been diagnosed with Covid 19 be cleared by a physician before resuming physical activity 

  • Children with asymptomatic/mild illness: After their isolation time is completed, the primary care physician should review the 14-point preparticipation screening evaluation with emphasis on cardiac symptoms and perform a complete physical examination.
  • Children with moderate illness: After symptom resolution (at least 10 days past the positive result), the primary care physician should review the 14-point preparticipation screening evaluation with emphasis on cardiac symptoms and perform a complete physical examination and an ECG.
  • Children with severe illness/MIS-C: They should not exercise for at least three to six months and should obtain cardiology clearance prior to resuming training or competition. They may require other tests based on signs or symptoms.
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4 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

https://www.aappublications.org/news/2021/03/01/covid19-sports-guidance-030121
 

American Academy of Paediatrics recommends that children who have been diagnosed with Covid 19 be cleared by a physician before resuming physical activity 

  • Children with asymptomatic/mild illness: After their isolation time is completed, the primary care physician should review the 14-point preparticipation screening evaluation with emphasis on cardiac symptoms and perform a complete physical examination.
  • Children with moderate illness: After symptom resolution (at least 10 days past the positive result), the primary care physician should review the 14-point preparticipation screening evaluation with emphasis on cardiac symptoms and perform a complete physical examination and an ECG.
  • Children with severe illness/MIS-C: They should not exercise for at least three to six months and should obtain cardiology clearance prior to resuming training or competition. They may require other tests based on signs or symptoms.

I am glad they've mapped out guidelines. 

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I must start by apologizing because I don’t think this is necessarily  too relevant to this thread but wasn’t sure where it fits.

I’ve been thinking about what has made this year so hard, and one thing is the fact that it has been the most difficult and upsetting work year in my 35+ years as a nurse, but I have hardly discussed it with many local friends and acquaintances because they are so busy maintaining the position that it is no big deal and completely overblown for political reasons. They just literally never ask about it or say anything about it. It’s surreal.

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19 minutes ago, TCB said:

I must start by apologizing because I don’t think this is necessarily  too relevant to this thread but wasn’t sure where it fits.

I’ve been thinking about what has made this year so hard, and one thing is the fact that it has been the most difficult and upsetting work year in my 35+ years as a nurse, but I have hardly discussed it with many local friends and acquaintances because they are so busy maintaining the position that it is no big deal and completely overblown for political reasons. They just literally never ask about it or say anything about it. It’s surreal.

I'm sorry.

And, I think this observation is absolutely pertinent. 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, TCB said:

@RootAnn @InnisfreeThank you! I have really appreciated the support on this forum. 

And I've appreciated hearing your experiences as a front line health care person. I'm so sorry you're not getting more in-real-life support.

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13 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

These are not good sounding statistics 😞 

Ugh. There is so much we are just starting to learn about neuropsychiatric stuff in relation to viral and bacterial infection and immune response. This stuff is what frightens me most in regards to my PANDAS kid and why we are being so very careful. I've seen what an immune response to disease can do to the brain. My kid is actually having a small flare right now in reaction to his seasonal pollen allergies....not fun. 

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19 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

Ugh. There is so much we are just starting to learn about neuropsychiatric stuff in relation to viral and bacterial infection and immune response. This stuff is what frightens me most in regards to my PANDAS kid and why we are being so very careful. I've seen what an immune response to disease can do to the brain. My kid is actually having a small flare right now in reaction to his seasonal pollen allergies....not fun. 

Oh yes!!!  I can see why that would make you more worried!

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3 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

In one day?  week?  What time frame? 

One day. Deaths there are skyrocketing. It's tragic. 😥

Screen Shot 2021-04-08 at 4.05.34 PM.png

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So looks like Australia is advising under 50yr olds not to go with the A-Z vaccine. This is slightly reassuring as maybe they'll start investing in other vaccines - they do have some pfizer. On the other hand, the vaccine program is very slow here, far slower than expected, so the advice is kind of hypothetical - few people are getting vaccinated, if you're one of those few and under 50, they're warning you A-Z might not be the way to go.

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Remember when the vaccines were first becoming available and there was a debate among public health experts whether it would be more effective to prioritize the elderly, in order to directly reduce deaths, or prioritize workers and younger people who were more likely to spread it, in the hope that reducing transmission would indirectly reduce deaths in the elderly?

There was an interesting article in the Washington Post today discussing how choice #2 has played out in Italy and comparing their results to France. Both countries prioritized HCWs and folks in nursing homes, but France continued to prioritize the elderly while Italy moved on to vaccinating a lot of younger workers (albeit with significant regional variations and no real central plan), with the result that only 2% of Italians in their 70s have been vaxxed yet.

It would now appear that option #1 was the better choice: while France and Italy are experiencing very similar spikes in case numbers, Italy's death rate is significantly higher.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/italy-vaccines-death-toll/2021/04/08/2d621f12-971a-11eb-8f0a-3384cf4fb399_story.html

 

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6 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

BREAKING: India reports 131,878 new coronavirus cases, by far the biggest one-day increase on record

NZ completely closed its borders yesterday to all people travelling out of India, including NZ citizens.  For the past week, there has been a huge spike in cases on the first day of quarantine for people travelling out of India. So instead of 4 new cases per day on average, we spiked to 17 cases per day and all of those from India. This is our military run quarantine where a positive day 1 test moves you to a different and more strict facility (which I'm guessing was filling up). We require a negative covid test within 3 days of travelling, so it looks like people were getting covid while travelling to the airport in India.  😞

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