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Regarding Neanderthal DNA (23 and Me says I have more Neanderthal DNA than 77% of their customers!)

"Scientists have claimed that a strand of DNA that triples the risk of developing severe Covid-19 was passed on from Neanderthals to modern humans. The genetic endowment, a legacy from more than 50,000 years ago, has left about 16% of Europeans and half of south Asians today carrying these genes."

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2020/sep/30/neanderthal-genes-increase-risk-of-serious-covid-19-study-claims

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DS got home 3 hours ago!  ❤️❤️

Update-  my youngest is not only short of breath, coughing, dizzy, nausaues, and with headache-  she is also confused.  I called our doctor and talked with him and she is going to be going to the ER.

Thought I'd post a pic of my dd, getting ready to spend another day in a coronavirus triage tent!  

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1 hour ago, TCB said:

I feel almost traumatized just by my experience this weekend lol so I really need to pull myself together for the long haul. My dd takes an important exam on Wednesday so I’m hoping to stay focused on that until then. But right now I’m sitting on my couch in tears. Someone at work last week said it was like watching a train wreck in slow motion, and it really was, except now it’s speeded up. It’s really difficult to make yourself believe what’s really happening so I guess I can understand the scoffers.

Sending positive thoughts your way (or prayers if you don’t mind that) for strength and focus for next week and that things take a turn for the better.  

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11 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Sending positive thoughts your way (or prayers if you don’t mind that) for strength and focus for next week and that things take a turn for the better.  

Definitely appreciate prayers. Thanks!

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51 minutes ago, Happymomof1 said:

I don't think my experience is universal, but I DO think it is much more common than many of you on this board think.  I walked by the older lady Sunday School ( 80's and 90's) about 10 of them. No one wore a mask. I don't think it is because of conspiracy theories, but because seeing someone else's face just means so much more to them. They put them on and wore them in the bigger service.  But among their friends, no. So for many of us, it truly is dehumanizing and unlike Jean intimated, if I were a better Christian then I could reframe it and be ok with it. I believe it is a holy discontent.

I think some of this is because older folks often have more hearing issues than younger. The older folks at our congregation have a lot of trouble understanding anyone speaking through a mask. And they seem to find it more difficult to talk through the mask as well. So, that would be my take on why they aren't wearing masks. Add in the fact they've survived for 80+ years without a mask, and it's hard to change habits. 

The only way to know for sure is to ask them! 

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4 hours ago, kdsuomi said:

The older people at my church have flat out said they can't wait until they can stop wearing masks because seeing people's faces is so important to them. Younger people figure it will go away soon enough (boy, would they hate to hear people say we should keep doing it after this pandemic) and can live with it for now, but for older people it's different. These could very likely be the last years of their lives, and they don't want to spend those years disconnected from everyone they love and care about. It's not some huge secret that faces are important in relationships, so it's crazy to me that people are acting otherwise all of a sudden.

 That's interesting that they have said that. 
I'm not a visual person, so seeing/not seeing people's faces isn't that big of a deal to me. Maybe I'm an outlier for not being a visual person. (I don't remember what people look like. I will not recognize you if I see you anywhere non-normal unless you speak to me or I am thinking of you at that precise moment. It's nothing personal, it's just something I struggle with)

 

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There is an app that shows how crowded a location is at the moment. 

https://www.ktnv.com/rebound/keeping-you-safe/app-launched-exclusively-in-las-vegas-helps-you-avoid-crowds

 

"This is brilliant," said Amanda Signorelli. She just downloaded NowCrowd.

The app just launched exclusively in Las Vegas and is designed to show you how crowded a business is before you even get there.

"The first thing I thought when I heard about the app was, 'this would be critical for grocery shopping,'" she said. "I feel like I spent a lot of time, especially in the early days of the pandemic, trying to understand when it was going to be safe to go."

"I think it's been pretty accurate," said Signorelli.

The app provides real-time information on crowd sizes based on information posted by users. When you get somewhere, you simply check in on the app.

"There's a binoculars button on the app. You click that, it gives you three options: Not Crowded, Somewhat Crowded, Crowded," said app Co-Founder Tyler Robertson.

He says users can then post a "story" in the form of a picture or video showing how busy it is.

"We know the nature of crowds, ebbs and flows. So the stories are live for two hours and then they disappear," explained Robertson.

Users can search for specific businesses considered "not crowded," like grocery stores, pharmacies, restaurants and even tourist attractions.

The app also provides directions to those spots and approximate wait times. Robertson believes the app is a great tool for locals and tourists.

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40 minutes ago, Plum said:

My city now has an app that shows how crowded a location is at the moment. 

https://www.ktnv.com/rebound/keeping-you-safe/app-launched-exclusively-in-las-vegas-helps-you-avoid-crowds

 

"This is brilliant," said Amanda Signorelli. She just downloaded NowCrowd.

The app just launched exclusively in Las Vegas and is designed to show you how crowded a business is before you even get there.

"The first thing I thought when I heard about the app was, 'this would be critical for grocery shopping,'" she said. "I feel like I spent a lot of time, especially in the early days of the pandemic, trying to understand when it was going to be safe to go."

"I think it's been pretty accurate," said Signorelli.

The app provides real-time information on crowd sizes based on information posted by users. When you get somewhere, you simply check in on the app.

"There's a binoculars button on the app. You click that, it gives you three options: Not Crowded, Somewhat Crowded, Crowded," said app Co-Founder Tyler Robertson.

He says users can then post a "story" in the form of a picture or video showing how busy it is.

"We know the nature of crowds, ebbs and flows. So the stories are live for two hours and then they disappear," explained Robertson.

Users can search for specific businesses considered "not crowded," like grocery stores, pharmacies, restaurants and even tourist attractions.

The app also provides directions to those spots and approximate wait times. Robertson believes the app is a great tool for locals and tourists.

This seems fabulous for Covid but I hope it doesn’t get misused for terrorism or other crime.  

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1 hour ago, kdsuomi said:

The CA government has said 97% of local health departments contact the contacts of the positive person the same day the test result comes back. So, contact tracing seems to definitely be going on here. 

Are those numbers really for reaching contacts?  Because numbers I have seen for most parts of the country are less than 50% of people are ever reached, that would be far above the norm.  If they are really able to do this, what are they doing differently from other states.  

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On 10/12/2020 at 1:11 PM, Ausmumof3 said:

This seems fabulous for Covid but I hope it doesn’t get misused for terrorism or other crime.  

IDK it's Vegas, it won't be hard to find a crowd. It's more for people who want to avoid them.

 

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48 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

This seems fabulous for Covid but I hope it doesn’t get misused for terrorism or other crime.  

I'm afraid I thought the same thing. 😞 

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2 hours ago, kdsuomi said:

That's because so much is still restricted in CA, so people feel the need to go elsewhere in order to do anything. Is it right? No, but it's a pretty obvious fallout to the situation. 

I know a lot of Californians are getting around the whole no competition for youth sports thing by competing in other states, so it's not just casinos and things like that.

(So, when advocating for a state to have much stricter rules than surrounding states, remember that the issue will then spill over into the other state when the people in the restricted state are over it.)

Also, the numbers I'm seeing show NV as being "worse" than CA, so it may be that CA should be more concerned about her residents bringing it back from NV.

Oh it’s definitely spillover from restrictions, but we’re also seeing many that were escaping the fires and/or moving here. 
 

The numbers of cases depends on where in NV you go, just like CA. SoNV had an uptick from the Trump rally/Labor Day weekend but we’re nowhere near July peaks. I would be worried about visitors bringing it back to CA just as much as bringing it here. Travel is risky. 

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5 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Bno:

Argentina COVID update:

- New cases: 9,524
- Positivity rate: 68.2%
- New deaths: 318
- In hospital: 28,397 (+99)
- ICU: 4,287 (+50)
 

doesn’t sound like a good situation overall.

That’s a huge positivity rate 

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5 hours ago, Bootsie said:

Are those numbers really for reaching contacts?  Because numbers I have seen for most parts of the country are less than 50% of people are ever reached, that would be far above the norm.  If they are really able to do this, what are they doing differently from other states.  

NY isn’t doing quite as well, but it’s reaching well over half, I think.

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Okay, I'm in a rush right now and can't look it up. Was it in this thread that someone posted the CDC's thing on masks? My supervisor's supervisor (who is indirectly my boss too) is very much anti-mask. I am the only person in my workplace who wears one. (I don't wear it in my office, but I do wear it in general areas and in staff meetings.) I know it irritates him, as well as his very-verbal-on-the-subject admin asst, when people wear them. He just gloatingly posted that link on his fb page. Ugh. I don't say anything to anybody about how they should be wearing masks, I don't criticize them, etc. I just quietly wear mine. And a couple of weeks ago, I did stop the admin asst from going on another of her diatribes about why she thinks they don't do any good, etc., etc. I just told her we disagree, and I didn't want to talk about it, and moved to a different subject. This is mostly just a vent. Staff meeting today. He'll probably bring it up. While I'm sitting there, the only one wearing one. Ugh. Ugh. Ugh. 

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8 minutes ago, Jaybee said:

Okay, I'm in a rush right now and can't look it up. Was it in this thread that someone posted the CDC's thing on masks? My supervisor's supervisor (who is indirectly my boss too) is very much anti-mask. I am the only person in my workplace who wears one. (I don't wear it in my office, but I do wear it in general areas and in staff meetings.) I know it irritates him, as well as his very-verbal-on-the-subject admin asst, when people wear them. He just gloatingly posted that link on his fb page. Ugh. I don't say anything to anybody about how they should be wearing masks, I don't criticize them, etc. I just quietly wear mine. And a couple of weeks ago, I did stop the admin asst from going on another of her diatribes about why she thinks they don't do any good, etc., etc. I just told her we disagree, and I didn't want to talk about it, and moved to a different subject. This is mostly just a vent. Staff meeting today. He'll probably bring it up. While I'm sitting there, the only one wearing one. Ugh. Ugh. Ugh. 

I’m not sure, is this what you are looking for?

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/cloth-face-cover-guidance.html
 

I’m sorry.  It would be easier if they were being respectful to you even when they don’t agree.

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5 minutes ago, fifiruth said:

It sounds like a lot, but keep in mind that it’s just  2.24% of the population.

Also, 2.5% of the 8 million have died, leaving a 97.5% survival rate. The deaths are each heartbreaking, but the quoting of cases gives a false sense of overwhelming peril for everyone. 

I’ve been tracking it since forever and probably will keep doing it.  I’m aware of the survival rates.  I’m aware that many cases are never tested or counted.  
 

Did you know that 8,000,000 people is almost a fourth of the population of my entire country?

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8 minutes ago, fifiruth said:

Yes, I do realize that 8,000,000 seems like a lot to you, but I so often see numbers quoted, and I truly don’t think that people realize just how huge the country is, nor how many people are here. 

It seems like you are constantly posting a count of the number of cases, which isn’t a good reflection of the situation here, that’s all. 

 

I’m aware that you have a population of 330,000,000 or so. I’m not sure why you need to tell me that?

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1 hour ago, fifiruth said:

It sounds like a lot, but keep in mind that it’s just  2.24% of the population.

Also, 2.5% of the 8 million have died, leaving a 97.5% survival rate. The deaths are each heartbreaking, but the quoting of cases gives a false sense of overwhelming peril for everyone. 

At what point should we become concerned?

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2 hours ago, fifiruth said:

It sounds like a lot, but keep in mind that it’s just  2.24% of the population.

Also, 2.5% of the 8 million have died, leaving a 97.5% survival rate. The deaths are each heartbreaking, but the quoting of cases gives a false sense of overwhelming peril for everyone. 

I don’t find 2.5% to be a comforting figure when you think how many deaths there could be as this spreads more and more. That’s a lot of potential deaths. 

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1 hour ago, fifiruth said:

Yes, I do realize that 8,000,000 seems like a lot to you, but I so often see numbers quoted, and I truly don’t think that people realize just how huge the country is, nor how many people are here. 

It seems like you are constantly posting a count of the number of cases, which isn’t a good reflection of the situation here, that’s all. 

 

What is your assessment of the situation here? My assessment, as an ICU nurse in an ICU that is struggling mightily to cope right now with the number of Covid patients we’re having to try and help, is that the situation is pretty dire. I know that is not everywhere in this country but it has been so in many places before now and may well be so in many more places soon if we can’t get it under control.

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6 hours ago, Jaybee said:

Okay, I'm in a rush right now and can't look it up. Was it in this thread that someone posted the CDC's thing on masks? My supervisor's supervisor (who is indirectly my boss too) is very much anti-mask. I am the only person in my workplace who wears one. (I don't wear it in my office, but I do wear it in general areas and in staff meetings.) I know it irritates him, as well as his very-verbal-on-the-subject admin asst, when people wear them. He just gloatingly posted that link on his fb page. Ugh. I don't say anything to anybody about how they should be wearing masks, I don't criticize them, etc. I just quietly wear mine. And a couple of weeks ago, I did stop the admin asst from going on another of her diatribes about why she thinks they don't do any good, etc., etc. I just told her we disagree, and I didn't want to talk about it, and moved to a different subject. This is mostly just a vent. Staff meeting today. He'll probably bring it up. While I'm sitting there, the only one wearing one. Ugh. Ugh. Ugh. 

Any of these?

 https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/pdfs/mm6936a5-H.pdf

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2768532

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6928e2.htm?s_cid=mm6928e2_w

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9 minutes ago, fifiruth said:

Why did you post that the U.S. death count was up to 200,000?  To make some kind of point that the situation is horrible and out of control here? 

 

Some of us appreciate having the mile markers posted as we blaze right on by them. What point are you trying to make that you think is going to persuade those of us who are concerned over the numbers>

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23 minutes ago, fifiruth said:

Why did you post that the U.S. death count was up to 200,000?  To make some kind of point that the situation is horrible and out of control here? 

 

@Ausmumof3has been posting all kinds of updates throughout this entire thread. For you to focus on this one suggests to me that you are looking to be offended and are looking for a fight.

I have appreciated all of her updates, but I like to know what's happening in general. Not a big fan of burying my head in the sand.

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10 minutes ago, fifiruth said:

Looking for a fight??? My goodness. That was a totally inaccurate assumption. Unfortunately, we can not hear each other’s tone of voice, so it would be better for you to assume the best and not the worst! We’re just having a conversation here.

I jumped in on the thread while it was current and live. No ulterior motive in commenting on her 200,000 post. 

 

It's hardly an assumption when I see what you've been saying all around the chat boards. I know your point of view. This assumption was not based on just one post. 

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Just now, fifiruth said:

I know better than to try to persuade anyone one here, but I think that adding another point of view, or take on a situation should be welcome and not attacked.

You are the one who assumed the worst. You asked @ausmum3 if she was trying "to make some kind of point that the situation is horrible and out of control here?"

Why would you assume that someone stating a basic fact is trying to mock America? Especially in the context of all the facts that she's posted both before AND after that post. To me your comment is not especially welcoming. YOU are assuming the ulterior motive. 

 

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56 minutes ago, fifiruth said:

I don’t think that it’s healthy to think in terms of:

what if, might, could, possibly, may, potentially, probably,

expected, projected, anticipated

because it’s better to stay in the moment and work with known stats.

Like you said in your other post it’s different perspectives I guess. I personally think that the real danger with this virus is the number of people who need hospital care. The death rate is definitely not great either, but that too can be worse because of the volume of hospitalizations. What I’m trying to say is that I am out here in the middle of rural America and up until a little while ago most people around here could have said exactly what you said about not knowing anyone with Covid. We were not very careful around here, no mask mandate, other than some stores requesting them, opened back up pretty much like normal after a couple of weeks lockdown (not a very severe one), schools opened in person etc. Now we are having a really hard time with it and that could happen anywhere.

I know I have a different opportunity to see the reality of it, but even when we had very few patients I could look at what was going on other places and see what could happen. I don’t quite understand why it’s so hard to look at what’s going on elsewhere. And just wanted to add that the extent of my media consumption is a daily look at the BBC and listening to podcasts from medical and scientific people / organizations, and what I read on this board. So we can still see what’s going on without having to rely on the media.

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1 hour ago, fifiruth said:

Why did you post that the U.S. death count was up to 200,000?  To make some kind of point that the situation is horrible and out of control here? 

 

I post milestones for many different countries here.  Including my own.  I’m sorry if it upset you but it’s not meant as an attack or anything.  

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9 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I’m not sure, is this what you are looking for?

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/cloth-face-cover-guidance.html
 

I’m sorry.  It would be easier if they were being respectful to you even when they don’t agree.

No, it was a recent one in the past day or so about 70% of people who get covid have worn masks or something like that.

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On 10/12/2020 at 3:38 AM, TCB said:

I must confess that I did not watch the whole thing, but after the start I just laughed out loud, and not in a good way. This thing is not over with yet. I don’t know where you are but you seem to have down played this thing all along. Maybe nothing much has gone on in your area yet, or you haven’t experienced it, and I sincerely hope you don’t, but from where I’m sitting right now, this virus is nothing to be trifled with.

I have not down played this, nor have I made it into a giant.  It is a virus.  People are dying.  It dies out in one place and moves onto another.  I'm outside of Seattle so we have had cases, to include a spike in the summer, which stayed pretty high for 6-8 weeks.  We are at the start of another one right now even though we have been fairly restricted since March, 100% masking in public since July 7, and no in-person school since mid-March.  My county is still under 20 deaths recorded with covid out of a total population of 300,000.  

I understand that a person's experiences can color their perceptions.  Being in the ICU, you are going to see the worst of the worst.  I have family members and close friends in the medical field in different parts of the U.S.; they are not seeing what you are seeing.  My husband manages 100s of people; he is not seeing what you are seeing.  What we are seeing are hospitals with few to no covid patients, and people testing positive via PCR are having no symptoms or mild symptoms for a few days.  You are seeing deaths of people with covid.  My dental hygienist's son has been a paramedic for 14 years and is changing professions because of the increase in suicides he's been called to since March.  There has got to be a middle ground where we can look at the big picture, not just positive cases/deaths from this one virus.  Also, it seems that lockdowns, face coverings, and a vaccine with some amount of efficacy, even if it doesn't prevent asymptomatic spread, are what is being focused on.  Unless one concentrates on human interest stories, people with healthy immune systems are clearing this easier.  If "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure," why are we not emphasizing health improvements since people with diabetes and obesity are having a higher rate of complications if they get covid?  It is another layer of protection we could add right now, keeping more people out of your ICU.

You may want to skip this part because it is about the video I posted.  It does go on to show how deaths fluctuate from year to year, having relatively high numbers after a year with relatively low numbers; it's cyclic.  The countries that had more excess deaths last year are showing less excess deaths this year.  The countries with a negative number of excess deaths last year are showing a higher number of excess deaths this year.  Excess deaths, looked at over a number of years or decades, are very telling and shape a more complete picture.  Another thing it looked at was cases v. deaths.  Most deaths happened in the spring even though case numbers have been rising.  

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1 hour ago, fifiruth said:

Why did you post that the U.S. death count was up to 200,000?  To make some kind of point that the situation is horrible and out of control here? 

 

 

I have tried to stay open to diverse points of view.

 I have also objected to attacks from multiple perspectives, and including when recently some apparently were against me. 

@Ausmumof3 and I and some others have been posting numbers updates since ... months back. Including when Australia and US were both in single or double digits. 

Can you offer whatever perspective you want without reading an ulterior motive onto another board member? 

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56 minutes ago, fifiruth said:

I know better than to try to persuade anyone one here, but I think that adding another point of view, or take on a situation should be welcome and not attacked.

I’m open to being persuaded with facts and welcome them. I find opinion, that doesn’t match with the facts I’m seeing, to not be persuasive. I think there is a very real danger of what we are experiencing here happening just about anywhere so am probably over vehement in my replies. Honestly it feels like denying reality or at least highly possible reality. 

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3 minutes ago, hopeallgoeswell said:

You may want to skip this part because it is about the video I posted.  It does go on to show how deaths fluctuate from year to year, having relatively high numbers after a year with relatively low numbers; it's cyclic.  The countries that had more excess deaths last year are showing less excess deaths this year.  The countries with a negative number of excess deaths last year are showing a higher number of excess deaths this year.  Excess deaths, looked at over a number of years or decades, are very telling and shape a more complete picture.  Another thing it looked at was cases v. deaths.  Most deaths happened in the spring even though case numbers have been rising.  

 

I have wondered if in some cases high death numbers could partly reflect a population not already dead from   something else.  

So that possibly sometimes when “they” think that prior high infection rates with __ (say Dengue) might oddly give immunity from SARS2, maybe it meant that the prior illness had already killed off the most vulnerable in the population, so fewer deaths for that reason 

 

That might also apply in a reverse way to a population that has a  relatively high number of people living woth high risk factors (like US or UK perhaps), where nothing like dengue has gone through and killed off the vulnerable, that there might be a higher death rate if an infectious disease got going. 

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7 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

 

I have wondered if in some cases high death numbers could partly reflect a population not already dead from   something else.  

So that possibly sometimes when “they” think that prior high infection rates with __ (say Dengue) might oddly give immunity from SARS2, maybe it meant that the prior illness had already killed off the most vulnerable in the population, so fewer deaths for that reason 

 

That might also apply in a reverse way to a population that has a  relatively high number of people living woth high risk factors (like US or UK perhaps), where nothing like dengue has gone through and killed off the vulnerable, that there might be a higher death rate if an infectious disease got going. 

Nature does what nature does.  In some respects, she's a cruel mistress.  It is really pretty here now with the leaves changing and falling, so she's not cruel in all respects :).

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7 cases for Vic and sadly 5 deaths today.  
 

currently I think the rolling average has to stay below 10 for restrictions to be lifted.  Norman Swann on Coronacast yesterday was suggesting making the metric should be changed to the number of cases of unidentified origin.  Because it’s very difficult to get and maintain below that handful of cases a day and specifically in hospital settings. He is fairly cautious so if he is suggesting the restriction guidelines might need to be changed they probably really do.  Also apparently COVID wards are still not all getting fit tested for the n95s.  It seems pretty ridiculous that they locked down the while of vic (and we’re talking a pretty solid lockdown) no going outside a 5km radius and 1 hour outdoors per day for exercise 😬. And didn’t make sure they had the health care PPE end of things sorted out.  And healthcare workers have been asking for fit testing for months now.

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11 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

 

I have wondered if in some cases high death numbers could partly reflect a population not already dead from   something else.  

So that possibly sometimes when “they” think that prior high infection rates with __ (say Dengue) might oddly give immunity from SARS2, maybe it meant that the prior illness had already killed off the most vulnerable in the population, so fewer deaths for that reason 

 

That might also apply in a reverse way to a population that has a  relatively high number of people living woth high risk factors (like US or UK perhaps), where nothing like dengue has gone through and killed off the vulnerable, that there might be a higher death rate if an infectious disease got going. 

I think this as well.  This country hits countries with good health systems harder in some senses because they have more vulnerable people that have survived for longer. 

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