wuhan - coronavirus

[Pen]

South Korea’s daily case number is close to doubling each day.  433 right now.  Day not done. 

[Pen]

Dr John’s morning update— less than 12 minutes if you have the time, I think he does a good job. 

 

[Acadie]

3 hours ago, 8FillTheHeart said:

Reading this thread has me so conflicted. We never make huge trips/special vacations with our kids. Well, months ago we planned a trip across the country to fly to CA, visit ds at Berkeley, and see SanFran, and travel around area. 

6 of us are supposed to fly out in under 2 weeks. Part of me thinks worrying about it is pointless. We live on the other side of the country, but we live in a highly global business community and everyone travels constantly. I think it is naive to believe that as interconnected as we all are that where we are even matters. Just as likely to encounter someone in church or the grocery store who has been in 10 different places in the last week.

Sigh. First big trip planned with our kids in 30 yrs of parenting. Bleh. 

 

What a pain to have to think about this. There are so many gorgeous places to be outdoors in the Bay Area--if you go and the news stays about the same, you could use masks for the flight, be especially careful in the airports, and emphasize outdoor activities while there. 

[Pen]

@8FillTheHeart  I might take along extra drinking type water bottles for each person and small pocket soap so that hands can be easily washed before eating any street food, before rubbing eyes... etc.    I don’t think some plain soap and water spilled into gutter or similar spot would hurt environment and it might help stay well from colds and flu as well as possible new virus.  

In fact, I might implement this idea for when visiting cities in my own area too, and perhaps the high school. 

 

[mathnerd]

4 hours ago, 8FillTheHeart said:

Reading this thread has me so conflicted. We never make huge trips/special vacations with our kids. Well, months ago we planned a trip across the country to fly to CA, visit ds at Berkeley, and see SanFran, and travel around area. 

6 of us are supposed to fly out in under 2 weeks. Part of me thinks worrying about it is pointless. We live on the other side of the country, but we live in a highly global business community and everyone travels constantly. I think it is naive to believe that as interconnected as we all are that where we are even matters. Just as likely to encounter someone in church or the grocery store who has been in 10 different places in the last week.

Sigh. First big trip planned with our kids in 30 yrs of parenting. Bleh. 

I spent all of last Saturday walking around the crowded Berkeley campus while my son attended a day long event there. There were participants there who traveled from mainland China and Hong Kong. Most of them wore masks all the time. We used hand sanitizer non-stop (after each hand washing session) and kept  4 feet away from anyone where possible. The weather is beautiful there now, SF is lovely and the homeless people are fewer in the touristy places with lots of traffic. Wear a mask on the plane, use hand sanitizers, don’t touch your face, go to the restaurants that are not too crowded and have fun! People are still going about business as usual in sf/Berkeley area.

Edited February 22, 2020 by mathnerd

[Arcadia]

@mathnerd

Mask are no longer self help now when I went for my oncologist appointment yesterday. It’s issued by the counter staff. They are giving out a mix of earloop masks and N95 masks to the patients and accompanying guests.

[Arcadia]

@Pen

This Reuters article is well written and already quite “politically correct”.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-health-singapore-analysis-idUSKBN20E0I4

“As a sovereign state that has been ruled by the same party since independence in 1965, it also maintains tight control over the movement of people into and out of the city and has strict laws to keep potential virus-spreaders in line. 

When the first cases of infected Chinese visitors to Singapore surfaced in late January, a 140-strong team of government contact tracers set to work interviewing patients and identifying and quarantining those close to them. 

A close contact is defined as anyone who has been within two metres and spent 30 minutes with an infected patient. 

Finding these contacts has involved asking airlines to hand over flight manifests, tracking patients’ movements on security cameras and roping in police investigators for the search, health ministry officials said. 

To date, Singapore has quarantined nearly 2,593 people. 

“There is an acceptance of that intrusiveness in Singapore,” said Chong Ja Ian, political science professor at the National University of Singapore. “The public response to these sort of demands tends to be quite ready, so that helps with the ability to trace.” 

It is an offence for individuals to withhold or provide inaccurate information to a contact tracing officer. Moreover, people who breach quarantine orders can be fined up to S$10,000 ($7,137.76), jailed for up to six months, or both. 

Authorities have also enforced 14-day confinement of workers who have recently traveled to China, with more than 1,000 calls and visits made a day to ensure compliance. Breaches have seen work passes revoked and employers lose their rights to hire foreigners

...

Its methods may also not be sustainable, especially if the epidemic worsens. 

“We can’t keep doing what we are doing forever. We can’t keep all elective surgery canceled, we can’t stop everyone going on holidays,” said Dale Fisher, an infectious diseases expert in Singapore who chairs the Global Outbreak Alert and Response Network coordinated by the World Health Organization. 

“Eventually this will have to be undone a little bit,” said Fisher. ”

[Pen]

1 hour ago, Arcadia said:

@mathnerd

Mask are no longer self help now when I went for my oncologist appointment yesterday. It’s issued by the counter staff. They are giving out a mix of earloop masks and N95 masks to the patients and accompanying guests.

 

Meaning not self help so people don’t grab bunch at a time?   Or required that everyone where a mask? Or both?

[Pen]

4 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

@Pen

This Reuters article is well written and already quite “politically correct”.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-health-singapore-analysis-idUSKBN20E0I4

“As a sovereign state that has been ruled by the same party since independence in 1965, it also maintains tight control over the movement of people into and out of the city and has strict laws to keep potential virus-spreaders in line. 

When the first cases of infected Chinese visitors to Singapore surfaced in late January, a 140-strong team of government contact tracers set to work interviewing patients and identifying and quarantining those close to them. 

A close contact is defined as anyone who has been within two metres and spent 30 minutes with an infected patient. 

Finding these contacts has involved asking airlines to hand over flight manifests, tracking patients’ movements on security cameras and roping in police investigators for the search, health ministry officials said. 

To date, Singapore has quarantined nearly 2,593 people. 

“There is an acceptance of that intrusiveness in Singapore,” said Chong Ja Ian, political science professor at the National University of Singapore. “The public response to these sort of demands tends to be quite ready, so that helps with the ability to trace.” 

It is an offence for individuals to withhold or provide inaccurate information to a contact tracing officer. Moreover, people who breach quarantine orders can be fined up to S$10,000 ($7,137.76), jailed for up to six months, or both. 

Authorities have also enforced 14-day confinement of workers who have recently traveled to China, with more than 1,000 calls and visits made a day to ensure compliance. Breaches have seen work passes revoked and employers lose their rights to hire foreigners

...

Its methods may also not be sustainable, especially if the epidemic worsens. 

“We can’t keep doing what we are doing forever. We can’t keep all elective surgery canceled, we can’t stop everyone going on holidays,” said Dale Fisher, an infectious diseases expert in Singapore who chairs the Global Outbreak Alert and Response Network coordinated by the World Health Organization. 

“Eventually this will have to be undone a little bit,” said Fisher. ”

 

I think other places need to be more like that for some time — rather than that Singapore needs to loosen up.  

While per capita Singapore still seems to have higher infection rate than South Korea, what it is doing seems to be working really well to have just creeping numbers of cases, not almost daily doubling.  

 

The death rate in Iran appears to be ~33% — that may mean a mutation, or may mean what happens with less capable health care and less stringent oversight.  

 

A rapid spread virus that has a  high death rate would be devastating.  

 

Too many places are being way too lax about it IMO. 

 

[Arcadia]

16 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

Meaning not self help so people don’t grab bunch at a time?   Or required that everyone where a mask? Or both?

They use to have two boxes next to the entrance so people could take one when they enter. It’s a high visibility area so no one has grab a bunch. 
Now it’s at the counter so people have to walk a distance to take one for themselves. There aren’t any mask available on the shelves at Target, Safeway or Costco so it’s not like I could buy my own if I have hay fever. 

Everyone has been required to wear a mask at the waiting area from more than 6 months ago due to California flu season. 

[Arcadia]

16 minutes ago, Pen said:

I think other places need to be more like that for some time — rather than that Singapore needs to loosen up.  

When your childhood is spent under the spectre of detention without trial (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internal_Security_Act_(Singapore)) the psychological feeling is different.

[Ausmumof3]

6 hours ago, Pen said:

 

Isnt there also a swine fever epidemic?

African swine flu?  It’s been going on for at least a year I think.  We have pig farming friends and they are pretty worried about it getting into Australia 

[Ausmumof3]

6 hours ago, Pen said:

 

IMO A random jerk comedian or twitter dude now seems to pale in comparison with supposed “teaching” institutes offering incentives to get around quarantine precautions.   

Maybe the message is they think it’s too late to stop Covid-19 from becoming epidemic in Australia, so might as well make money. 

If foreign students are sick in Australia, are they eligible for Australian health system? 

 

 

I actually do believe this.  I think most of the prevention efforts are actually public opinion appeasement efforts because they don’t think it can be stopped.  Slowed down maybe.  I’m not sure about that with the health system.  Good questions.  I think with communicable diseases it’s in everyone’s best interests to make sure health care is affordable.  You don’t want someone not presenting.

[Ausmumof3]

2 hours ago, Pen said:

Iran is having something like 30% death rate?

 

I think they have limited testing capacity.  They admitted it’s probably in many cities.  WHO are supposed to be providing more kits.  

[Pen]

14 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I actually do believe this.  I think most of the prevention efforts are actually public opinion appeasement efforts because they don’t think it can be stopped.  Slowed down maybe.  I’m not sure about that with the health system.  Good questions.  I think with communicable diseases it’s in everyone’s best interests to make sure health care is affordable.  You don’t want someone not presenting.

 

Slowed down would be huge.  It would give a chance for medical system to manage. And maybe, maybe would give a chance for a vaccine to be developed.

It seems strange that China is locking down schools, borders, while Australia is heading toward opposite direction.  

What is NZ doing?  

[Arcadia]

13 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I think they have limited testing capacity.  They admitted it’s probably in many cities.  WHO are supposed to be providing more kits.  

From https://www.tehrantimes.com/news/445408/WHO-provides-Iran-with-new-coronavirus-test-kits (10 hrs ago)

“The Iranian Ministry of Health announced that the fourth batch of test kits, special for diagnosing the coronavirus, known as COVID-19, has been delivered to Iran with the assistance of Christoph Hamelmann, World Health Organization (WHO) Representative in Iran, IRNA reported on Friday.

Iranian health authorities reported one fatality on Saturday and two fatalities on Friday, adding to the two elderly patients who died on Wednesday. A further 18 people tested positive for the virus.”

 

[Pen]

25 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

African swine flu?  It’s been going on for at least a year I think.  We have pig farming friends and they are pretty worried about it getting into Australia 

 

Hmmm.  We call “swine fever” the illness that kills swine, mostly a pig illness.  (“Swine flu” a different illness that mostly affects humans).   I think maybe pork supplies are way low in China because of the pig epidemic. 

[Pen]

23 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I actually do believe this.  I think most of the prevention efforts are actually public opinion appeasement efforts because they don’t think it can be stopped.  Slowed down maybe.  I’m not sure about that with the health system.  Good questions.  I think with communicable diseases it’s in everyone’s best interests to make sure health care is affordable.  You don’t want someone not presenting.

 

I don’t know about Australia, but USA, Canada, and UK probably don’t have enough ICU/infection containment rooms/beds for likely number of cases unless it is kept way slowed down.  

 

[Ausmumof3]

2 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

Hmmm.  We call “swine fever” the illness that kills swine, mostly a pig illness.  (“Swine flu” a different illness that mostly affects humans).   I think maybe pork supplies are way low in China because of the pig epidemic. 

No African swine flu can’t kill people.  I think we are talking about the same thing it just commonly gets called flu here.  I’m not sure that it’s actually related to influenza though.  It’s not the same thing as the swine flu from a couple of years back. 

[Ausmumof3]

1 minute ago, Pen said:

 

I don’t know about Australia, but USA, Canada, and UK probably don’t have enough ICU/infection containment rooms/beds for likely number of cases unless it is kept way slowed down.  

 

Australia don’t have enough hospital beds as it is.  And it takes us forever to build a hospital.  I think the only thing in our favour is low population density.  But in cities that won’t make much difference.

[Ausmumof3]

https://www.mdedge.com/infectiousdisease/article/111734/healthcare-acquired-infections/viruses-mobile-phones
 

article on mobile phone contamination from a couple of years back.

I realised Apple Pay makes this more is a thing because you are touching it in shops etc.

[Pen]

http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/02/canada-lebanon-report-iran-linked-covid-19-cases-concerns-rise

 

 

“New estimates suggest multiple undetected transmission chains

Modeling experts from Imperial College Londonexamined recent COVID-19 developments outside of China that suggest that two-thirds of cases exported from China's mainland have gone undetected, which could have triggered yet-undetected local spread of the virus.

For their analysis, they estimated the likely size of the epidemic in Wuhan based on air traffic volume and the number of cases outside of China. Then they examined country rates of confirmed cases related to flight volume to gauge the sensitivity of different surveillance systems.

Though travel restrictions from Wuhan and other parts of China may have reduced the number of travelers to and from China, their estimates still suggest that a significant number of exported cases (63% to 73%) have gone undetected.

They said that differences in illness severity make some cases tough to detect. "However, some countries have detected significantly fewer than would have been expected based on the volume of flight passengers arriving from Wuhan City, China," they wrote.”

[Pen]

3 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Australia don’t have enough hospital beds as it is.  And it takes us forever to build a hospital.  I think the only thing in our favour is low population density.  But in cities that won’t make much difference.

 

It still might help.  I think from pictures I see that even in cities like Sydney, Australia is relatively less densely populated than a lot of places like in big cities in Asia.  

 

[Ausmumof3]

9 minutes ago, Pen said:

http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/02/canada-lebanon-report-iran-linked-covid-19-cases-concerns-rise

 

 

“New estimates suggest multiple undetected transmission chains

Modeling experts from Imperial College Londonexamined recent COVID-19 developments outside of China that suggest that two-thirds of cases exported from China's mainland have gone undetected, which could have triggered yet-undetected local spread of the virus.

For their analysis, they estimated the likely size of the epidemic in Wuhan based on air traffic volume and the number of cases outside of China. Then they examined country rates of confirmed cases related to flight volume to gauge the sensitivity of different surveillance systems.

Though travel restrictions from Wuhan and other parts of China may have reduced the number of travelers to and from China, their estimates still suggest that a significant number of exported cases (63% to 73%) have gone undetected.

They said that differences in illness severity make some cases tough to detect. "However, some countries have detected significantly fewer than would have been expected based on the volume of flight passengers arriving from Wuhan City, China," they wrote.”

So basically what we all said two weeks ago probably happened.  You know back when it was all “don’t panic, don’t spread rumours”.

[Pen]

12 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

https://www.mdedge.com/infectiousdisease/article/111734/healthcare-acquired-infections/viruses-mobile-phones
 

article on mobile phone contamination from a couple of years back.

I realised Apple Pay makes this more is a thing because you are touching it in shops etc.

 

Phone cases could help to make cleaning easier.   I have had waterproof mobile phone sack.

[Ausmumof3]

1 minute ago, Pen said:

 

Phone cases could help to make cleaning easier.   I have had waterproof mobile phone sack.

Yes I have an otterbox.  I just need to add it to my list of things to disinfect when I get back to the car.

[Ausmumof3]

63 cases for Italy.  

 

[Pen]

10 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Yes I have an otterbox.  I just need to add it to my list of things to disinfect when I get back to the car.

 

I think I’ll locate my sack and start using it.  

[Pen]

13 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

63 cases for Italy.  

 

 

From the News section of Worldometer:

 

• "From the tests carried out, it emerged that the alleged zero patient did not develop antibodies. So he never had Coronavirus. The whole picture changes now" said Deputy Minister of Health, Pierpaolo Sileri.
•  

[Arcadia]

27 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Yes I have an otterbox.  I just need to add it to my list of things to disinfect when I get back to the car.

At the entrance and exit of supermarkets and big box stores, there are wipes for shopping carts. My husband use those on the way out.

[Pen]

1 hour ago, Arcadia said:

From https://www.tehrantimes.com/news/445408/WHO-provides-Iran-with-new-coronavirus-test-kits (10 hrs ago)

“The Iranian Ministry of Health announced that the fourth batch of test kits, special for diagnosing the coronavirus, known as COVID-19, has been delivered to Iran with the assistance of Christoph Hamelmann, World Health Organization (WHO) Representative in Iran, IRNA reported on Friday.

Iranian health authorities reported one fatality on Saturday and two fatalities on Friday, adding to the two elderly patients who died on Wednesday. A further 18 people tested positive for the virus.”

 

 

I think the virus may have mutated.

 One dead person was supposedly a 5 yo (a group that has seemed at low risk elsewhere) and one adult who died was reportedly a teacher age 60 otherwise in excellent health, who took sick and died very fast... not a two or three week progression...   and he seems to have been put on ventilator.

Though these are second or third hand gleanings or based on a photo of man on respirator which for all I know is stock footage . ...

there are suggestions of viral myocarditis in Iran cases ...  (infected heart muscle)...

[Pen]

 

 

“meanwhile, Japan's health ministry today reported 22 more cases, raising the country's total to 113, though it also notes an overall total of 132 that includes 16 asymptomatic carriers and 3 confirmed positive”

cidrap university of Minnesota 

[Pen]

I was wrong on idea that viral myocarditis indicates a change.  I now see that goes back in reports to at least January.  But possibly it is  a change to have it without prior heart issues.  

[Carrie12345]

1 hour ago, Ausmumof3 said:

No African swine flu can’t kill people.  I think we are talking about the same thing it just commonly gets called flu here.  I’m not sure that it’s actually related to influenza though.  It’s not the same thing as the swine flu from a couple of years back. 

When I hear swine flu, that’s still H1N1 to me. That’s what a friend who got it this year called it, and the term the doctors in India used in the Pandemic serious on Netflix. And it’s what our doctors said when we had it in 2009.  I think the term was supposed to fall out of favor, but hasn’t completely.

[Pen]

Opinion | Why Did One-Quarter of the World's Pigs Die in a Year?

Jan 1, 2020 · Swine fever devastated China's stock because with unsound governance...

 

---

 

China Responds Slowly, and a Pig Disease Becomes a Lethal Epidemic

 

[Farrar]

Has the pangolin thing been discussed here yet? This thread is looong. I just hope this finally gets China to crack down on all their various illegal animal trades. Like, they should have anyway, but maybe they'll finally see a good reason to.

We're supposed to go to Italy and Greece in April. Right now, I'm hesitantly thinking of ditching the money we spent on the Italy end of stuff and buying new tickets to just fly straight out of Rome when we arrive and on to Athens, skipping that whole part of the trip.

[Acadie]

1 hour ago, Pen said:

 

 

 

The death rate in Iran appears to be ~33% — that may mean a mutation, or may mean what happens with less capable health care and less stringent oversight.  

 

 

What occurred to me regarding the high death rate in Iran is there could be many, many undetected cases, with the only ones reported nearing critical condition, driving up the death rate significantly.

[pitterpatter]

My mom has a port. She had blood withdrawn from it on Thursday. Usually, it's a big deal for the procedure to be super sterile and everyone within the curtained room to have masks on when accessing her port. This time, only the phlebotomist got a mask due to there being a shortage. My mom was pretty sure she didn't throw it away afterward either. This was at a top U.S. cancer center.

ETA: On the mask subject, would washing homemade masks in hot water in an HE washer sterilize them? My mom quilts and is an excellent seamstress. We are talking about her making some for our family, as we cannot find any locally or on the internet to buy. The medical supply companies I use to buy supplies for my mom's ostomy care have been sold out for weeks.

5 hours ago, Arcadia said:

@mathnerd

Mask are no longer self help now when I went for my oncologist appointment yesterday. It’s issued by the counter staff. They are giving out a mix of earloop masks and N95 masks to the patients and accompanying guests.

 

Edited February 23, 2020 by pitterpatter

[Pen]

45 minutes ago, Acadie said:

What occurred to me regarding the high death rate in Iran is there could be many, many undetected cases, with the only ones reported nearing critical condition, driving up the death rate significantly.

 

I hope that’s all it represents.

6 hours ago, Pen said:

"People must be distantiated right now, because this is a virus that is transmitted very effectively at close range" said the director of the infectious diseases department of the Higher Institute of Health, Gianni Rezza.

I wonder when the Catholic Church will start encouraging people to stop shaking hands at the sign of peace and stop holding hands at the Our Father and stop the common cup.  I remember these recommendations during the SARS outbreak even though it wasn’t in the United States to the best of my knowledge.  We attend Latin Mass now so I don’t have to feel bad about being rude - those aren’t part of the traditional liturgy, but if I didn’t I would for sure keep my hands folded and eyes looking at the floor at this point.

[Pen]

15 minutes ago, pitterpatter said:

My mom has a port. She had blood withdrawn from it on Thursday. Usually, it's a big deal for the procedure to be super sterile and everyone within the curtained room to have masks on when accessing her port. This time, only the phlebotomist got a mask due to there being a shortage. My mom was pretty sure she didn't throw it away afterward either. This was at a top U.S. cancer center.

ETA: On the mask subject, would washing homemade masks in hot water in an HE washer sterilize them? My mom quilts and is an excellent seamstress. We are talking about her making some for our family, as we cannot find any locally or on the internet to buy. The medical supply companies I use to buy supplies for my mom's ostomy care have been sold out for weeks.

 

 

It would not literally “sterilize” them. But it would do as well as for your clothing which is also going to have microbes on it.  

I think for most people washable masks is probably a good plan to cut down on droplet transmission much more sustainably than using disposable masks.  

They won’t have the tiny pores of an N95 mask, but will help remind about keeping one’s own hands away from face and would be better at stopping things than nothing according to what I’ve read about masks.

Iirc, You can effectively sterilize cotton cloth by boiling, or by ironing with a hot iron.  

But a hot water wash load would probably do a great deal without having a laundry day cauldron boiling away.  

I suspect that a pressure steam setting in an Instant Pot might also effectively sterilize cotton. 

[mathnerd]

54 minutes ago, Farrar said:

Has the pangolin thing been discussed here yet? This thread is looong. I just hope this finally gets China to crack down on all their various illegal animal trades. Like, they should have anyway, but maybe they'll finally see a good reason to.

I am guessing that with such a huge pandemic on their hands and the links between pangolins and the virus, the poachers killing pangolins for their scales are probably not willing to interact with the species anymore and will leave them alone.

2 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

It would not literally “sterilize” them. But it would do as well as for your clothing which is also going to have microbes on it.  

I think for most people washable masks is probably a good plan to cut down on droplet transmission much more sustainably than using disposable masks.  

They won’t have the tiny pores of an N95 mask, but will help remind about keeping one’s own hands away from face and would be better at stopping things than nothing according to what I’ve read about masks.

Iirc, You can effectively sterilize cotton cloth by boiling, or by ironing with a hot iron.  

But a hot water wash load would probably do a great deal without having a laundry day cauldron boiling away.  

I suspect that a pressure steam setting in an Instant Pot might also effectively sterilize cotton. 

Do you know of anyone making fabric masks?  Just wondering if I need to bust out the sewing machine or if I can be lazy and just buy some.  We are going to Washington DC in April with all four kids so I think it would be good to keep their hands off the faces and keep my one nail biter from sticking his fingers in his mouth.

[beaners]

It is interesting that Facebook is now sharing the CDC recommendations. I don't know if the CDC pays for them to advertise or how that works. Do they have other advertising going on right now? 

[Pen]

2 minutes ago, mathnerd said:

I am guessing that with such a huge pandemic on their hands and the links between pangolins and the virus, the poachers killing pangolins for their scales are probably not willing to interact with the species anymore and will leave them alone.

 

Unfortunately this article indicates that illegal wildlife trade continues https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-health-wildlife-idUSKBN20A0RK

5 minutes ago, Mom2mthj said:

I wonder when the Catholic Church will start encouraging people to stop shaking hands at the sign of peace and stop holding hands at the Our Father and stop the common cup.  I remember these recommendations during the SARS outbreak even though it wasn’t in the United States to the best of my knowledge.  We attend Latin Mass now so I don’t have to feel bad about being rude - those aren’t part of the traditional liturgy, but if I didn’t I would for sure keep my hands folded and eyes looking at the floor at this point.

 

Sounds like a good idea.

I don’t know what their practices are, but churches already sound like they have become potential transmission places in South Korea and somewhere else iirc. 

[Pen]

15 minutes ago, Mom2mthj said:

Do you know of anyone making fabric masks?  Just wondering if I need to bust out the sewing machine or if I can be lazy and just buy some.  We are going to Washington DC in April with all four kids so I think it would be good to keep their hands off the faces and keep my one nail biter from sticking his fingers in his mouth.

 

I did used to from a chemical sensitivity POV, but don’t currently have a contact.  

I think maybe bust out sewing machine? Or if you homeschool make making them a handwork arts and crafts project?

a scarf long rectangle  or bandanna simple square might do too, especially to help keep hands away from mucus membranes, but perhaps harder to keep it on well 

 

Also, I think DIY might have a good feeling psychologically.  

I am making a home made herb tincture which may or may not be helpful.  But I think the process of making it myself is helpful. 

Edited February 23, 2020 by Pen

[Farrar]

In terms of the wildlife trade, it's not just the pangolins. There's apparently a high likelihood that the pangolin is responsible for this one, but that's done. The next one could be another animal altogether. Leave wildlife in the wild.

In terms of precautions... I've read that wearing plastic gloves is more effective, despite the widespread masks. Here in DC, I've only seen a tiny number of people wearing masks on the street so you'd definitely stand out a little, just FYI.

[Spryte]

On 2/22/2020 at 8:09 PM, Farrar said:

 

In terms of precautions... I've read that wearing plastic gloves is more effective, despite the widespread masks. Here in DC, I've only seen a tiny number of people wearing masks on the street so you'd definitely stand out a little, just FYI.

I have not seen many masks in DC either.  Plastic gloves are an interesting idea, though. I’m tucking that glove idea away, thanks.

Edited February 24, 2020 by Spryte

[iamonlyone]

1 hour ago, Mom2mthj said:

Do you know of anyone making fabric masks?  Just wondering if I need to bust out the sewing machine or if I can be lazy and just buy some.  We are going to Washington DC in April with all four kids so I think it would be good to keep their hands off the faces and keep my one nail biter from sticking his fingers in his mouth.

 

It looks like Etsy.com has quite a few options.

[Pen]

South Korea now up to 556 cases, on worldometer.