wuhan - coronavirus

[Pen]

3 minutes ago, kand said:

The wool I have is very dense, more like a thick piece of felt, yet is breathable. I have a bunch cut in pieces already because I use it for crib mattress and changing table protection when my babies are little. There of been a number of studies showing the electrostatic effect helps a lot. That’s one of the factors with commercial N95s, and also seems to be why layers of chiffon or silk in the mask significantly boosts filtration. The way wool fibers lay down in a felted material is so randomly crisscrossing that it’s why it seems like it might provide quite an effective filtration layer. I could be completely wrong on that, I would just love to see testing of it.

 

It was mentioned in a newspaper article I saw online.  Or maybe Huffington Post?  Anyway it made it seem like wool has been included in some filtration tests. 

If it’s already cut anyway, seems like it would be worth a try.   (Maybe do whatever you can think of for your own tests? Agar plate for bacteria or _____. ) 

Edited July 5, 2020 by Pen

[melmichigan]

17 hours ago, melmichigan said:

The Taiwanese ones linked in this thread

I'm not sure how I got the impressions these were Taiwanese in origin.  The company was just founded in March by Melinda Hwang, a corporate marketer turn entrepreneur from Los Angeles, California.  It's listed as a small business with 1-10 employees.  I messaged from more information as I placed an order last night. 🙂

[Pen]

6 minutes ago, melmichigan said:

I'm not sure how I got the impressions these were Taiwanese in origin.  The company was just founded in March by Melinda Hwang, a corporate marketer turn entrepreneur from Los Angeles, California.  It's listed as a small business with 1-10 employees.  I messaged from more information as I placed an order last night. 🙂

 

Made in Taiwan.  That’s fine with me. I have much more trust in Taiwan products than mainland China ones.   And Taiwan has way way way lower CV19 rates than USA

[crazyforlatin]

25 minutes ago, melmichigan said:

I'm not sure how I got the impressions these were Taiwanese in origin.  The company was just founded in March by Melinda Hwang, a corporate marketer turn entrepreneur from Los Angeles, California.  It's listed as a small business with 1-10 employees.  I messaged from more information as I placed an order last night. 🙂

I messaged the company via Instagram. She responded back quickly and gave her number to directly call her. The company’s Instagram also lists her number. I placed an order a few days ago but wanted to ask them a question regarding sizing.

[melmichigan]

30 minutes ago, crazyforlatin said:

I messaged the company via Instagram. She responded back quickly and gave her number to directly call her. The company’s Instagram also lists her number. I placed an order a few days ago but wanted to ask them a question regarding sizing.

I don't do Instagram so I'll give her time to answer via Messenger.  I'd much rather support a small business.  I had some questions about their test results.

[Jaybee]

6 hours ago, RootAnn said:

Has anyone seen progress on the spit-PCR tests? Or the breathalyzer ones? (Israel had a breathalyzer test & Ohio State had one, I think.) Dd#1 is going to be tested at least a few times for college this fall & I'm hoping for more comfortable & more accurate tests soon. Quick & accurate would be even better. (Israel's breathalyzer was toured at 90% accurate & to take less than a minute to results.) I haven't seen anything new in a month...

I've been wondering this too! I hope someone will have updates.

[Pen]

5 hours ago, kand said:

 

All of the consumer-oriented masks being sold right now carry similar disclaimers. The manufacturers understandably don’t want to take on any liability if someone contracts Covid while wearing their mask, and there’s no way anyone can guarantee they won’t (even if it was an N95 medical mask being sold to the public). The disclaimer protects them. That said, I have no idea how good the Happy Masks are or aren’t. 

I keep wondering why I haven’t seen wool included in any of the mask fabric testing. It seems to me it could be a great middle or outer layer. So many properties that might make wool helpful (breathable, moisture management, anti-bacterial, temperature regulating, possibly electrostatic?). I have a number of felted wool blankets and I would sacrifice one for mask making if I had any indication it worked well as a filter layer. 

 

https://smartairfilters.com/blog/best-diy-coronavirus-homemade-mask-material-covid/

this has wool scarf material, cashmere and merino, but not felted wool

Edited July 5, 2020 by Pen

[Pen]

@kand https://www.lorrainekolasa.com/news/2020/4/27/cotton-wool-facemask-tutorial

 

[lewelma]

4 hours ago, Pen said:

 

I saw an indication of wool scarf fairly low 10-21% ? Slightly better than single layer cotton T-shirt material

felted wool supposed to be much better similar to flannel  — not sure there’s a reason to sacrifice a wool blanket as compared to a piece of flannel or other suitable filter material 

electrostatic aspect is interesting, one place I read said that with a potentially electrostatic material, rubbing mask to achieve electrostatic charge helps significantly   But I don’t know when rubbing would help more versus perhaps weakening materials 

 

The wool filters used in the NZ masks use a specially bred sheep that increases the electrostatic aspect.  Not just any old wool.  They were tested to be similar to an N80. The ones we found have a cotton outer that is washable, and wool filter inserts that you can use for about a week and then dispose of.  You buy the outers separate from the wool filter inserts so you can buy a pack of 10 inserts. But there are many different brands that are using the wool filter, so they have different constructions. 

[Pen]

11 minutes ago, lewelma said:

The wool filters used in the NZ masks use a specially bred sheep that increases the electrostatic aspect.  Not just any old wool.  They were tested to be similar to an N80. The ones we found have a cotton outer that is washable, and wool filter inserts that you can use for about a week and then dispose of.  You buy the outers separate from the wool filter inserts so you can buy a pack of 10 inserts. But there are many different brands that are using the wool filter, so they have different constructions. 

 

This? It looks like it would be very nice for longer term use during the academic year!

and in winter if it gives some warmth that would also be a plus 

I wonder if the filters can be heat or UV disinfected for longer use.  

[Pen]

2 hours ago, Pen said:

 

This? It looks like it would be very nice for longer term use during the academic year!

and in winter if it gives some warmth that would also be a plus 

I wonder if the filters can be heat or UV disinfected for longer use.  

 

https://www.meoair.com/

[melmichigan]

On 7/4/2020 at 6:38 PM, calbear said:

I looked at the Cambridge mask...asumming it is the one with a vent, those are actually banned in a number of areas in my state because of the vents. The mask will not prevent anything you are breathing out.
 

 

I contacted Cambridge Mask.  They now ship a valve deactivator with all new masks in response to COVID.  I requested some for the masks I already own, and was assured they come with all new orders.  I don't currently feel the need to go that far and am comfortable wearing a regular mask over the Cambridge when the situation arises.

The response from Happy Mask was awesome!  I look forward to trying out their product as well.  Thanks for sharing the information.

 

Edited July 6, 2020 by melmichigan

[Matryoshka]

1 minute ago, melmichigan said:

I contacted Cambridge Mask.  They now ship a valve deactivator with all new masks in response to COVID.  I requested some for the masks I already own, and was assured they come with all new orders.

The response from Happy Mask was awesome!  I look forward to trying out their product as well.  Thanks sharing the information.

My dd has a Cambridge mask and also just got a Vogg mask, which is similar but I think N95 rather than 99.  She says the Vogg is easier to breathe in - she has recently apparently been some places that don't allow the valves, so she put tape over it!  She said the Vogg is still easier, even with tape.

I just got a Vogg too; my other kid who's been wearing them for ages for allergy reasons jumped on a batch they released for ordering and got one for each family member.  I have a huge face, apparently, and got an XL based on measurements, but I think an L would have fit. (also ordered a large-size Happymask).  The ears don't adjust on the Vogg for some reason and without tightening those it was a bit big, but I found I can clip the two ear loops behind my neck with a paperclip and then it fits great.

[melmichigan]

11 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

My dd has a Cambridge mask and also just got a Vogg mask, which is similar but I think N95 rather than 99.  She says the Vogg is easier to breathe in - she has recently apparently been some places that don't allow the valves, so she put tape over it!  She said the Vogg is still easier, even with tape.

I just got a Vogg too; my other kid who's been wearing them for ages for allergy reasons jumped on a batch they released for ordering and got one for each family member.  I have a huge face, apparently, and got an XL based on measurements, but I think an L would have fit. (also ordered a large-size Happymask).  The ears don't adjust on the Vogg for some reason and without tightening those it was a bit big, but I found I can clip the two ear loops behind my neck with a paperclip and then it fits great.

Back when I first started wearing masks Vogg didn't cover viruses, and there was a disclaimer on their site to that effect.  I believe that has changed.  My biggest hang up is the washing instructions:  

No frequent washing (normally is less than 1 x per month).

No submersion, rinse only

Edited July 6, 2020 by melmichigan

[Matryoshka]

5 minutes ago, melmichigan said:

Back when I first started wearing masks Vogg didn't cover viruses, and there was a disclaimer on their site to that effect.  I believe that has changed.  My biggest hang up is the washing instructions:  

No frequent washing (normally is less than 1 x per month).

No submersion, rinse only

It still says no viruses and such, but as noted elsewhere, I think they all have to say that unless they're medical grade.  Liability.

[melmichigan]

33 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

It still says no viruses and such, but as noted elsewhere, I think they all have to say that unless they're medical grade.  Liability.

When you test the two Vog gets stuck on particulate so it's left with the N95 rating.  The Cambridge Pro is treated with silver and reaches the N99 including virus and bacteria.  At that point it's getting into such fine delineations that it's all dependent on fit in my mind.  You have to go with what fits you the best and is the most comfortable so that you will wear it correctly.  I like all the adjustments on the Cambridge Pro because I have a small face for an adult.  I wear the alternative band instead of the ear loops, and have to use the adjustment straps on the cheeks to get the sides to tighten correctly.

[Pen]

6 minutes ago, melmichigan said:

When you test the two Vog gets stuck on particulate so it's left with the N95 rating.  The Cambridge Pro is treated with silver and reaches the N99 including virus and bacteria.  At that point it's getting into such fine delineations that it's all dependent on fit in my mind.  You have to go with what fits you the best and is the most comfortable so that you will wear it correctly.  I like all the adjustments on the Cambridge Pro because I have a small face for an adult.  I wear the alternative band instead of the ear loops, and have to use the adjustment straps on the cheeks to get the sides to tighten correctly.

 

The Cambridge interests me for its filtration of VOCs in addition to virus.  Did it have any odor or feeling that the mask itself outgassed any plastics or so forth? 

[melmichigan]

21 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

The Cambridge interests me for its filtration of VOCs in addition to virus.  Did it have any odor or feeling that the mask itself outgassed any plastics or so forth? 

I am extremely sensitive to smells, which was another reason I chose the Cambridge Pro (treated with silver vs the Basic) I haven't had any issue with smells.  I normally open a new mask and leave it for a day before I wear it, but I wore one right out of the packaging to take my DS to the ER in May and didn't have any problems. (I also have a respiratory allergy to latex so I wear them to prevent that in a medical setting.)  It smelled a little like the packaging when I first put it on, but they're mailed in a resealable lined envelope right now instead of a tin because of the preorder.  You also can't order any of the cool patterns. 😞  

I do know there is a problem with a scam site selling knock offs, so do be careful you get the spelling correct and use the proper site if you order directly from them.  They are only preorder with shipping in August that I'm aware of right now.

Edited July 6, 2020 by melmichigan

[Ausmumof3]

126 cases and 1 death in Vic today 

[Corraleno]

Nick Cordero died today. Four months ago he was a fit, healthy 41 year old with an 8 month old baby. He was hospitalized at the end of March, spent 13 weeks in the ICU, had his leg amputated, and finally passed away today. His little boy turned 1 in June. 

People who think they "just want to get it and get it over with" — you have no idea whether you'll have a sniffle and be "done" in a few days or die a slow painful death over the course of several months, separated from your loved ones. That's a hell of a gamble. 😥 

[Selkie]

6 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

Nick Cordero died today. Four months ago he was a fit, healthy 41 year old with an 8 month old baby. He was hospitalized at the end of March, spent 13 weeks in the ICU, had his leg amputated, and finally passed away today. His little boy turned 1 in June. 

People who think they "just want to get it and get it over with" — you have no idea whether you'll have a sniffle and be "done" in a few days or die a slow painful death over the course of several months, separated from your loved ones. That's a hell of a gamble. 😥 

Oh no. I saw just a few days ago that his wife said he was doing better. So sad.😞

[Shoeless]

500,000+ deaths is a whole lot of statistical unicorns. 

[Shoeless]

🤷‍♂️

[Ausmumof3]

A second death in Vic today of a 60 year old man.  5 in ICU.  Starting to hit home that it’s really not over.

[Melissa in Australia]

3 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

A second death in Vic today of a 60 year old man.  5 in ICU.  Starting to hit home that it’s really not over.

All borders closed to Victorians police, army and drones will patrol the Vic NSW border. More suburbs of Melbourne locked down

[Wheres Toto]

7 hours ago, Arctic Mama said:

NM, I’m about this close to pulling a Stella.  

I have no idea what that means.  Google gave me a bunch of stuff about how to pull a beer without foam. 

[Ausmumof3]

9 minutes ago, Where's Toto? said:

I have no idea what that means.  Google gave me a bunch of stuff about how to pull a beer without foam. 

There is a poster here called Stella who opted out a while ago.  I missed what went down but if anyone ( @Rosie ?) is in touch with her still I hope she’s doing ok for now.  

[TracyP]

For those of us who have been wishing more attempts to collect data and research different aspects of how covid is spreading, I found this article interesting. It shows a joint effort between the University of Minnesota and MN Dept of Health (plus the Mayo Clinic to some extent) to look how covid is spreading and what interventions are most helpful.

https://www.minnpost.com/health/2020/06/what-the-minnesota-health-department-hopes-to-learn-from-covid-19-blood-tests/

 

[DoraBora]

Covid risk associated with various activities (source: Texas Medical Association Covid-19 Task Force):

https://www.texmed.org/uploadedFiles/Current/2016_Public_Health/Infectious_Diseases/309193 Risk Assessment Chart V2_FINAL.pdf

[TracyP]

25 minutes ago, DoraBora said:

Covid risk associated with various activities (source: Texas Medical Association Covid-19 Task Force):

https://www.texmed.org/uploadedFiles/Current/2016_Public_Health/Infectious_Diseases/309193 Risk Assessment Chart V2_FINAL.pdf

Thanks for this. It is a very understandable way to get the message across and I mostly agree with their rankings. My state has this weird dial system trying to show something similar. I get it, mostly, but it is not user friendly. I like this a lot.

[Matryoshka]

16 minutes ago, square_25 said:

You have NO IDEA how relieved I am they are not reopening indoor dining for now. 

I think we're reopening limited capacity indoor dining here today,  which does not make me very happy (I'm still not ready to dine outdoors at a restaurant), but at least they've decided to hold off on bars till the return of stadium crowds seems also warranted, which I hope is still some time off...

[DoraBora]

21 minutes ago, square_25 said:

I wonder if those are right... they are very specific, and I would think that some of these depend heavily on whether something is inside or outside. 

I don't know...  I think most of the listed activities are pretty easy to classify as being indoors or outdoors, and many of us know that moving an activity outdoors probably mitigates some risk, all other factors remaining constant. 

A chart like this that's too general isn't very useful, and one that's too specific won't fit onto a single page.  😉  I think they published it in the interest of educating people who may not be particularly interested in nitty-gritty details.  There are a lot of us, even here in Texas, who want to be educated about relative risk.

[DoraBora]

8 minutes ago, square_25 said:

But is going to the beach really like going to the mall?? Is swimming in a public pool like working in an office building for a week? 

Well, obviously, I don't know, but I'm sometimes surprised at one thing being statistically more dangerous than another.  I didn't look too far past the chart, but they may have published the data behind it.  There are lots of activities on the chart that I'm not doing right now.  I just thought it was interesting.

beach - mall?  Probably correct.  Malls are indoors, but at least around Dallas, they are mostly DEAD, and have been so for quite some time.  The better malls are sort of crowded at Christmastime, but any time I've ventured into a mall in the last several years I've wondered how they manage to stay open.

pools - offices?  The few public pools I've passed in the last couple of weeks have been too crowded for my comfort.  A number of offices are sparsely populated at present, so maybe that's behind the ranking in those cases. 

[Matryoshka]

32 minutes ago, square_25 said:

Isn't it already open? 

Isn't what already open? Phase 3 starts today (includes limited indoor dining, gyms, museums), so new things are allowed open as of this morning, but not sure what's actually open.  For example, while gyms are among the things allowed to open, my gym has announced plans to reopen, but no firm date yet. 

I am pleased at the abundance of caution,  and won't myself be returning to the gym probably for at least a couple of months after it's open and looks like no spread being caused.

Similarly, while spaced outdoor dining has been allowed for a couple of weeks,  I haven't been partaking. 

Edited July 6, 2020 by Matryoshka

[Pen]

13 hours ago, Arctic Mama said:

NM, I’m about this close to pulling a Stella.  

 

Perhaps a temporary break would do rather than having yourself banned and all content removed. 

Or just not reading and participating in the threads that are distressing you so greatly?

I know you want people to understand your POV as being equally valid to any other POV (and there are no doubt social media sites where more people would agree with you).  

However, for myself, your arguments and analogies haven’t come through well. [specifics deleted from analogy you have made] isn’t likely to put the hospital staff at risk of illness or make it hard for them to visit with their own more vulnerable family members.  It isn’t likely to add risk to grocery shoppers.  I know you deleted that, so maybe you changed your mind yourself. 

Because of the infectious nature of CV19, and since there’s no Club Med CV19 set up to go to and get infected and stay in till noninfectious, there is currently no good way for people who would just as soon get it to do that without jeopardizing other people as well as themselves.  I wish there were a way to do something like a CV19 separated island experience where people could go there and “get it over with” recover (or not), and if / when recovered return to regular society. 

Even better, I think that people who would just as soon get it sooner rather than later would be doing a great service if they would volunteer to help in clinical trials which could use deliberate exposure—usually considered unethical—[ but with people like the Alabama college kids doing Covid parties choosing it themselves—eta @EmseB posted below that this is false “news” so not this specific, but just for those who would like to go ahead and get it, or don’t care] , it would be nice if it could be serving to do things like trial vaccines at the same time. IMO

 

Edited July 6, 2020 by Pen

[Matryoshka]

11 minutes ago, square_25 said:

I thought indoor dining was already open. But I may be forgetting where you are, my apologies! 

I'm in MA.  And I just looked up details to link you, and... you're right!  Indoor dining was not part of phase 2, so I'd just assumed it was part of phase 3, but  apparently there was a phase 2a on June 22nd just for that. Shows how much I've been out and about.

Kinda wish they'd waited on that too, thinking to that study of credit card data, restaurants, and rise in cases. We're doing reasonably well here, I'd really like to see that continue!

 

[TracyP]

14 minutes ago, square_25 said:

I just wonder how scientific this is. As far as we know, we've traced lots of outbreaks to indoor activities, and practically none to outdoor ones. And we've done quite a lot of natural experiments with the protests. 

I would personally rate any indoor activities are more risky than outdoor ones, given the data. And especially indoor activities in small places that are not frequently cleaned. So an office would actually be high on my list of places to avoid, especially if it's not a very large office. 

I agree that it's imperfect. I would definitely move a few activities around on that chart. I think this is a case where it may not be super useful *for you* because you are paying attention so closely, but I think it is very helpful for the general public. I haven't seen anything like this yet, that is so accessible. Even if it needs some tweaking over time, I'm really glad to see something like this being put out there.

[Matryoshka]

5 minutes ago, square_25 said:

I was just in a suburb of Boston (Belmont), lol, and my in-laws were also extremely surprised that indoor dining is officially open. They also thought it was opening today. 

We had some dates driving around while the kids slept at their grandparents', and I have to say, dining might be officially open, but most places didn't seem to bother reopening indoors for this restricted phase. It's not worth it to them. We saw a lot of places set up with outdoor dining, though. 

I think that's likely part of why thst had passed me by! Unlike some other areas, it seems like here things are often opening even later than official guidelines allow. I think especially looking at what's happening elsewhere in the country,  very few here are in any rush...

[EmseB]

1 hour ago, Pen said:

 

Perhaps a temporary break would do rather than having yourself banned and all content removed. 

Or just not reading and participating in the threads that are distressing you so greatly?

 

Even better, I think that people who would just as soon get it sooner rather than later would be doing a great service if they would volunteer to help in clinical trials which could use deliberate exposure—usually considered unethical choosing it themselves, it would be nice if it could be serving to do things like trial vaccines at the same time. IMO. 

 

For what it's worth.

https://www.wired.com/story/covid-parties-are-not-a-thing/

ETA, the quote got messed up, but the link is in response to the "Alabama covid parties".

Also I think putting info out there that someone deleted, especially that kind of personal stuff, is way, way not cool.

Edited July 6, 2020 by EmseB

[Pen]

9 minutes ago, EmseB said:

For what it's worth.

https://www.wired.com/story/covid-parties-are-not-a-thing/

ETA, the quote got messed up, but the link is in response to the "Alabama covid parties".

Also I think putting info out there that someone deleted, especially that kind of personal stuff, is way, way not cool.

 

I’ll edit mine.

[EmseB]

This is a good thread about the claim that sars2 was present in Europe as early of March 2019 based on that waste water test (tldr, it probably wasn't)

 

[math teacher]

As far as the beach being similar to the mall-It is possible to go to the beach and social distance. Dh did last week. I know there will be parties and that is not good, but if a family unit goes and stays away from others (very possible), I think that is safe. We brought our own food and ate all meals in the cottage. We did visit the coffee shop, but everyone was masked and social distanced. 

[EmseB]

Another twitter thread, CO v. TX questions

 

[lewelma]

I've been very interested in what is going on in Australia as it is a warning for us here in NZ.  

NSW/Victoria border has been closed.  The police are manning the 55 border crossings between the 2 states.

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/nsw/nsw-victoria-border-closed-by-coronavirus-with-police-on-frontline-20200706-p559jb.html

Is it possible for certain US states to do the same? 

[brehon]

13 minutes ago, lewelma said:

I've been very interested in what is going on in Australia as it is a warning for us here in NZ.  

NSW/Victoria border has been closed.  The police are manning the 55 border crossings between the 2 states.

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/nsw/nsw-victoria-border-closed-by-coronavirus-with-police-on-frontline-20200706-p559jb.html

Is it possible for certain US states to do the same? 

Maybe some of the smaller states, maybe. TX absolutely not, especially not along the Rio Grande (international border); AZ & CA is the same, I would imagine. There isn’t enough law enforcement to handle that. Logistically, I don’t even know how it would be done. 
 

ETA: And my answer doesn’t speak to the legal and financial issues which would also be enormous. 

Edited July 6, 2020 by brehon
Additional thought

[lewelma]

I'm seeing the little states in New England doing quite well.  How many border crossings could they have?  The cut could be vertically down the borders between VT/CT/MA and NY.  Or include NY and make the cut at the NY border for the region. 55 crossings is a lot of crossings but my understanding is that NSW is doing all the manning of the borders with their NSW police force not a federal force. 

ETA: Australia has a federal system like the USA.

Edited July 6, 2020 by lewelma

[Rosie_0801]

6 minutes ago, CuriousMomof3 said:

I think the Australia geography is really unique in that it has long borders with few crossings.  Looking at the NSW/VIC border there don't seem to be any major population centers that straddle the line, a common situation in the US.

 

There are a few that are major enough to have the residents in a hurry to apply for exemptions.

[lewelma]

NZ may end up creating a quarantine free travel bubble with only certain states within Australia.  So it is good to know that they can close internal state borders. The discussion is a bubble between Australia/NZ/Pacific islands/Taiwan maybe by the end of the year.

[lewelma]

3 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

 

There are a few that are major enough to have the residents in a hurry to apply for exemptions.

I was seeing that.  So sad that the outbreak seems to be FROM the quarantine centers.  There is now a discussion about whether we want our quarantine centers in city centers within high rises (with limited lifts) or if we want to construct facilities out in the boonies. What a mess.

Also, we have the military running our facilities. So more strict than Australia had with using security guards.  But NZ is watching closely.

I heard a heart wrenching piece on a number of tower blocks being completely locked down like they did in Wuhan.  They seemed to be all state-housing, so poor and often immigrants. 

Edited July 6, 2020 by lewelma

[Rosie_0801]

10 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

There is a poster here called Stella who opted out a while ago.  I missed what went down but if anyone ( @Rosie ?) is in touch with her still I hope she’s doing ok for now.  

 

She's still active on FB.

4 minutes ago, lewelma said:

I was seeing that.  So sad that the outbreak seems to be FROM the quarantine centers.  There is now a discussion about whether we want our quarantine centers in city centers within high rises (with limited lifts) or if we want to construct facilities out in the boonies. What a mess.

I heard a heart wrenching piece on a number of tower blocks being completely locked down like they did in Wuhan.  They seemed to be all state-housing, so poor and often immigrants. 

 

So *stupid* the outbreak from the quarantine centres. The security guards behaved as though they didn't understand the health measures we've had drummed into us over the past few months.

Yes. The bolded is correct, and single parents with special needs kids. They're "only" locked down for five days, so I don't really see the use at all. Particularly when we know there was one chap under hotel quarantine, who did all the right things for 14 days and tested positive after he'd got out and gone about his business.