wuhan - coronavirus

[Pen]

7 minutes ago, TCB said:

Those figures seem a little strange though. My state, which has got increasing numbers but not going crazy at all has a higher R0 than Arizona. How can that be?

 

States like Hawaii and Montana are having relatively big transmission increases, but still have low levels total.  

It’s a great time to make behavior changes before the numbers become huge

[crazyforlatin]

@Pen I meant to ask earlier before I ordered, what size are you wearing? I ordered large for men and medium for the rest of the women in the family. They won’t arrive for another couple of weeks so maybe I can revise the order if necessary. 

[Matryoshka]

33 minutes ago, TCB said:

Those figures seem a little strange though. My state, which has got increasing numbers but not going crazy at all has a higher R0 than Arizona. How can that be?

I think it's because it's a measure of how many people one hypothetical person infects.   So if each person infects two people (on average, in reality it seems superspreaders drive that more), that is the same R value.  So, from 2 cases to 4 has the same R value as 20 -> 40 or 200 -> 400.    Still a much better likelihood of squashing things before they get out of hand if the total number is lower, though.  But a high R value even with low cases gives you the heads up that it's time to start squashing because things are headed to a bad place.

[Pen]

1 hour ago, crazyforlatin said:

@Pen I meant to ask earlier before I ordered, what size are you wearing? I ordered large for men and medium for the rest of the women in the family. They won’t arrive for another couple of weeks so maybe I can revise the order if necessary. 

 

Large! And I’m under 5’8

but I have a wide jaw 

I learned from Totobobo experience that large more likely to fit than “woman’s “ size.

 

happymask website had a measuring guide

Edited July 4, 2020 by Pen

[Pen]

 

Yesterday’s  John Campbell video below is interesting.

 @TCB it shows a graphic from Indonesia of different R values for 5 and 30 days starting from a single sick prrson transmitting at the average 

 

@square_25 it says data from NY post protest testing (the added sites set up specially to do post-protest SARS2 PCR type (afaik) tests) has not yet been released.  Is that true?  

https://youtu.be/-FU61mJgGEo

Edited July 4, 2020 by Pen
Link didn’t post

[Pen]

@crazyforlatin  I’d err too large if in doubt.  A piece of surgical tape could bring it in a little, but I don’t think there’s any way to expand it.

[Pen]

NYTimes: 

bold added

 

“In New York, Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo pledged in early June to dedicate 15 testing sites in the city exclusively to people who attended protests. But a state Health Department spokesman said that data is not yet available.”

 

 

[Pen]

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/01/nyregion/nyc-coronavirus-protests.html

link for quote above

[melmichigan]

On 7/3/2020 at 4:35 PM, TCB said:

I just received the Happy Masks I bought for the grandparents. I don't know how they are to wear because just arrived and haven't heard reports from the wearers. I have to say though, that they are way thinner and lighter than I was expecting. If they are that thin and light and do indeed filter really well then they are wonderful. I must admit it did give me pause though. I'm not sure if there is any way to find out for sure about the filtration. It's actually kind of hard to believe they are made up of 3 layers. If they weren't $18 each I'd take one apart to make sure.

The German ones say right on the site they're only intended to be worn as clothing.

Happy Mask exclusively sells streetwear clothing that is not intended to be used for any other application but clothing. Happy Masks products are not personal protective equipment and should in no case be used as such or as a substitute for the former. We don't take any responsibility for damaged caused to our customers or others by any use of our products outside of the from us intended use as clothing.

Edited July 4, 2020 by melmichigan

[crazyforlatin]

16 minutes ago, Pen said:

@crazyforlatin  I’d err too large if in doubt.  A piece of surgical tape could bring it in a little, but I don’t think there’s any way to expand it.

Thanks Pen, I’m going to call them to revise the size. I’m looking forward to the leopard print :).

[Pen]

Just now, crazyforlatin said:

Thanks Pen, I’m going to call them to revise the size. I’m looking forward to the leopard print :).

Cool!!!!    I just got the basic style 😊

[Joker]

5 hours ago, Pen said:

Yes. Though not all the time.  My favorite glasses, alas missing in action, don’t touch it at all. My other glasses - shown below - barely do (purple circle). The glasses are seated on my nose by the nose pieces (red circles), not on the mask. 

(If I fuss with the shaping I may be able to get both sides not to have glasses - mask overlap at all) 

 

Don’t quote photo - I’ll delete later. 

 

 

 

 

So, I tried again and I guess my face is just weird but there is no space between my glasses and the mask. They definitely sit on the mask. I ordered the medium and it fits well but the glasses just will not stay up with this mask. 
 

I may try some of the silicone things fire my glasses listed elsewhere and see if it helps.

[Pen]

5 minutes ago, Joker said:

So, I tried again and I guess my face is just weird but there is no space between my glasses and the mask. They definitely sit on the mask. I ordered the medium and it fits well but the glasses just will not stay up with this mask. 
 

I may try some of the silicone things fire my glasses listed elsewhere and see if it helps.

The bottom of mask is fully below lower jaw and you shaped the upper nose metal as best you can?

  My nose metal was riding just about where nose cartilage starts, not high up

 

maybe even my bigger glasses are smaller than yours?

[Pen]

@Joker in the main advertising picture with a woman and boy, the woman has it up on her chin and up high in her nose— mine isn’t on like that. Itywell under jaw with bottom toward neck like the boy with camouflage one, and down on nose, even more tha his — much like in Tamar B testimonial photo

[TCB]

30 minutes ago, melmichigan said:

The German ones say right on the site they're only intended to be worn as clothing.

Happy Mask exclusively sells streetwear clothing that is not intended to be used for any other application but clothing. Happy Masks products are not personal protective equipment and should in no case be used as such or as a substitute for the former. We don't take any responsibility for damaged caused to our customers or others by any use of our products outside of the from us intended use as clothing.

The ones I bought were from Taiwan and are supposed to have an N99 filter layer. I saw the picture of a cut open one so can see how it is put together.

[Joker]

8 minutes ago, Pen said:

The bottom of mask is fully below lower jaw and you shaped the upper nose metal as best you can?

  My nose metal was riding just about where nose cartilage starts, not high up

 

maybe even my bigger glasses are smaller than yours?

Mine isn’t up as high as the woman in the picture online. My glasses are plastic frames and the smallest I could get and still have progressive lenses so maybe they are just a tad bigger. It does fit my nose more comfortable (it seems a bit squished) if it’s higher but then it’s almost in my eyes. 

 

[melmichigan]

On 7/3/2020 at 4:35 PM, TCB said:

I just received the Happy Masks I bought for the grandparents. I don't know how they are to wear because just arrived and haven't heard reports from the wearers. I have to say though, that they are way thinner and lighter than I was expecting. If they are that thin and light and do indeed filter really well then they are wonderful. I must admit it did give me pause though. I'm not sure if there is any way to find out for sure about the filtration. It's actually kind of hard to believe they are made up of 3 layers. If they weren't $18 each I'd take one apart to make sure.

We wear Cambridge Masks (similar technology) when our numbers our up locally or when we have to go for routine hospital visits..  The kids complain when we go back to just a plain surgical mask because the N99's are so much more comfortable and easier to breathe in.  

[melmichigan]

The masks we currently wear meet EU EN149 standards.  Can anyone comment on the disclaimer on Happy Masks?  I was debating something for an in between because I just don't like a lot of the disposable masks available right now.    Happy Masks website lists the following:  *Disclaimer: Happy Masks are not devices intended for use in the diagnosis of disease or other conditions or in the cure, mitigation, treatment, or prevention of disease and do not meet the definition of a medical device as set forth in section 201(h) of the FD&C Act.  

[Pen]

50 minutes ago, Joker said:

Mine isn’t up as high as the woman in the picture online. My glasses are plastic frames and the smallest I could get and still have progressive lenses so maybe they are just a tad bigger. It does fit my nose more comfortable (it seems a bit squished) if it’s higher but then it’s almost in my eyes. 

 

 

I also have progressives, but metal frames.  I’ll do an experiment tomorrow with plastic framed colored lenses glasses and see what happens 

[SoCal_Bear]

2 minutes ago, melmichigan said:

The masks we currently wear meet EU EN149 standards.  Can anyone comment on the disclaimer on Happy Masks?  I was debating something for an in between because I just don't like a lot of the disposable masks available right now.    Happy Masks website lists the following:  *Disclaimer: Happy Masks are not devices intended for use in the diagnosis of disease or other conditions or in the cure, mitigation, treatment, or prevention of disease and do not meet the definition of a medical device as set forth in section 201(h) of the FD&C Act.  

I looked at the Cambridge mask...asumming it is the one with a vent, those are actually banned in a number of areas in my state because of the vents. The mask will not prevent anything you are breathing out.

A basic liability disclaimer. No one can claim to be medical grade PPE unless they meet stringent manufacturing standards and all that stuff has to be manufactured in sterile conditions.

 

[lewelma]

Does anyone have good information on home sterilization of disposable masks.  We have been doing some internet research, but just curious if someone else is studying this.  My ds will be leaving NZ for Boston in about 6 weeks.  He has struggled with acne for years and has it under control, but I'm thinking disposable masks are the best bet. I can get surgical masks at the grocery store (on sale because no on here wants them), and the P2/N95 masks at the hardware store. He could use the surgical masks everyday, and the P2/N95 masks when on airplanes or in crowded areas he can't avoid. We are thinking he just loads up his suitcase, but it sure would be nice to be able to reuse them. We've looked into H2O2 misters (only commercial), UV light (not finding anything portable and cheap), and heat treatment in an oven (we have heard that all the dorm kitchens will be closed). So I'm open to suggestions. 

Edited July 4, 2020 by lewelma

[Pen]

2 minutes ago, lewelma said:

Does anyone have good information on home sterilization of disposable masks.  We have been doing some internet research, but just curious if someone else is studying this.  My ds will be leaving NZ for Boston in about 6 weeks.  He has struggled with acne for years and has it under control, but I'm thinking disposable masks are the best bet. I can get surgical masks at the grocery store (on sale because no on here wants them), and the P2/N95 masks at the hardware store. Using the surgical masks everyday, and the P2/N95 masks when on airplanes or in crowded areas he can't avoid. We are thinking he just loads up his suitcase, but it sure would be nice to be able to reuse them. We've looked into H2O2 misters (only commercial), UV light (not finding anything portable and cheap), and heat treatment in an oven (we have heard that all the dorm kitchens will be closed). So I'm open to suggestions. 

 

The virus deactivates with time in addition to heat, UV etc.    if he can take enough for the first week of the trip/ quarantine , he can probably bag masks in labeled bags and Day 1 masks will probably be ok again by day 8...     especially  if some sun, heat, UV could be applied (a sunny window perhaps), a cardboard box diy solar cooker with plastic wrap top and aluminum foil lined set in window sun, maybe. 

Is there any chance of an instant pot being shipped to his dorm to use for heat disinfection  (would need a container for the masks) and also food? 

Personal H2O2 spray might help—but might disintegrate the mask . Idk. 

 

Are you sure soap soap and water washable fabric masks would not be better and ok for acne too? 

[Pen]

@lewelma I don’t know if this actually works—it isn’t even making claims for virus, but might help along with time.    ~ $50

 

JS LifeStyle UV Cleaner Travel Wand 253.77nm Wavelength 4xAA Batteries Required Without Chemicals https://www.amazon.com/dp/B087MY561S/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_0MqaFbZGXEEYS

 

[lewelma]

We have gotten him a special silver impregnated cloth for his violin hickey which was getting infected and bleeding. So perhaps we could find him cloth masks impregnated with silver.  

[Pen]

3 minutes ago, lewelma said:

We have gotten him a special silver impregnated cloth for his violin hickey which was getting infected and bleeding. So perhaps we could find him cloth masks impregnated with silver.  

 

Does he get acne where fabric clothing touches his skin? 

How many days is he traveling? 

And once he gets to dorm quarantine can he be mask free a lot of the time?

 

and do you know that paper and N95 type won’t cause acne?   Maybe test that out while home? 

 

Edited July 4, 2020 by Pen

[lewelma]

All good ideas, Pen.  In the past, it is the bacteria that is trapped in razors and violin cloths that has caused the acne.  He has never worn a mask, as NZ never suggested or required them.  My dh is going to go buy some disposables today and have ds try them out. As for travelling, he won't have to wear one on the NZ flight to CA because no one will have it.  But he will wear one in the airport in CA, on the direct flight to Boston, in the Boston airport, and in the taxi to his dorm. Then he goes into quarantine for 7 days.  So he will need to wear it for 12+ hours on his trip over. As for the dorm, my understanding so far is that ds will be allowed 3 other people in his bubble of no masks.  All others at MIT that he interacts with will have to be through a mask.  So yes, I'm guessing he will be wearing one a decent amount.  However, he does study an awful lot, and that is by himself in his room.  He is not the type of student that works in groups. 

My dad just suggested a thermometer.

[Pen]

Since they are readily available where you are, enough disposable masks masks for the trip, plus enough to start school year seems like a good idea.   And he should be able to get some rewear out of them.

For daily use during the school year, a few fully washable fabric ones seem like they would be best bet not to get acne flares. 

[Ausmumof3]

6 hours ago, TCB said:

Those figures seem a little strange though. My state, which has got increasing numbers but not going crazy at all has a higher R0 than Arizona. How can that be?

If you’ve got one case and then you have two cases you’ll have a higher R0 than someone who had 1000 then 1,100 I think? It bounces round a lot more with low numbers.  The larger the outbreak the more stable and accurate its going to be.

lol... I think.   Keeping in mind I’ve only learned this in the last month!

[melmichigan]

2 hours ago, calbear said:

I looked at the Cambridge mask...asumming it is the one with a vent, those are actually banned in a number of areas in my state because of the vents. The mask will not prevent anything you are breathing out.

A basic liability disclaimer. No one can claim to be medical grade PPE unless they meet stringent manufacturing standards and all that stuff has to be manufactured in sterile conditions.

 

If anyone in my immediate area was actually wearing a mask I'd put a cloth mask/surgical mask over it.  I carry some in my purse at all times.  Sadly, because it's so politicized in my area I rarely see anyone with a mask anymore.  It was a big to do here because two of the city council members, that also own large restaurants/bars, wouldn't even wear masks in order to hold meetings.  They don't follow any of the opening guidelines at any of the local bars/pubs or restaurants.  They don't follow any of the requirements at any of the city buildings, nor do they at any of the local stores.  I've given up protecting people that don't have any consideration for others and now simply protect my family, which means wearing N99 whenever I'm out and have to enter a building.  Cambridge has been my go to for my family (with all my medical stuff) during flu season for a few years now.  The hospital has us put surgical masks over the N99s.

That was one of the reasons I was interested in the Happy Mask.  If people suddenly change their tune and start wearing masks I'd like something comfortable with my asthma that would protect those around me, while still being reasonable because there are seven of us.  Our numbers are climbing locally, but I'm not surprised in the slightest.

Edited July 5, 2020 by melmichigan

[Ausmumof3]

2 hours ago, lewelma said:

Does anyone have good information on home sterilization of disposable masks.  We have been doing some internet research, but just curious if someone else is studying this.  My ds will be leaving NZ for Boston in about 6 weeks.  He has struggled with acne for years and has it under control, but I'm thinking disposable masks are the best bet. I can get surgical masks at the grocery store (on sale because no on here wants them), and the P2/N95 masks at the hardware store. He could use the surgical masks everyday, and the P2/N95 masks when on airplanes or in crowded areas he can't avoid. We are thinking he just loads up his suitcase, but it sure would be nice to be able to reuse them. We've looked into H2O2 misters (only commercial), UV light (not finding anything portable and cheap), and heat treatment in an oven (we have heard that all the dorm kitchens will be closed). So I'm open to suggestions. 

https://www.dhs.gov/publication/st-multicooker-decontamination-n95-respirators

Is this helpful?

[Ausmumof3]

24 minutes ago, lewelma said:

All good ideas, Pen.  In the past, it is the bacteria that is trapped in razors and violin cloths that has caused the acne.  He has never worn a mask, as NZ never suggested or required them.  My dh is going to go buy some disposables today and have ds try them out. As for travelling, he won't have to wear one on the NZ flight to CA because no one will have it.  But he will wear one in the airport in CA, on the direct flight to Boston, in the Boston airport, and in the taxi to his dorm. Then he goes into quarantine for 7 days.  So he will need to wear it for 12+ hours on his trip over. As for the dorm, my understanding so far is that ds will be allowed 3 other people in his bubble of no masks.  All others at MIT that he interacts with will have to be through a mask.  So yes, I'm guessing he will be wearing one a decent amount.  However, he does study an awful lot, and that is by himself in his room.  He is not the type of student that works in groups. 

My dad just suggested a thermometer.

Have you looked into your locally produced nz masks with wool?  Wool has antibacterial properties.  I’m glad you raised this.  With the outbreak in vic I’m back to thinking about what we’ll do if we get spillover here and it just occurred to me the other day that masking is going to be a problem for my 13 year old for this reason.

[Ausmumof3]

 

this seems like a good explanation for the rising infection rates and falling death rates currently in the US

[Jean in Newcastle]

2 hours ago, melmichigan said:

The masks we currently wear meet EU EN149 standards.  Can anyone comment on the disclaimer on Happy Masks?  I was debating something for an in between because I just don't like a lot of the disposable masks available right now.    Happy Masks website lists the following:  *Disclaimer: Happy Masks are not devices intended for use in the diagnosis of disease or other conditions or in the cure, mitigation, treatment, or prevention of disease and do not meet the definition of a medical device as set forth in section 201(h) of the FD&C Act.  

Are you talking about the German Happy Masks (apparently not good) or the Taiwanese Happy Masks (apparently good)?

[lewelma]

45 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Have you looked into your locally produced nz masks with wool?  Wool has antibacterial properties.  I’m glad you raised this.  With the outbreak in vic I’m back to thinking about what we’ll do if we get spillover here and it just occurred to me the other day that masking is going to be a problem for my 13 year old for this reason.

Yes, my sister order some for her, and routed them through us so we could try them.  They do feel a bit like a wool scarf over your face.  🙂  I don't think they will work for him.  

[lewelma]

50 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

https://www.dhs.gov/publication/st-multicooker-decontamination-n95-respirators

Is this helpful?

yes, very.  We either need to ask if they are allowed in the dorm room, or just not ask and use one.  I know that they cannot have tea kettles or microwaves in the dorm room, but perhaps they will make exceptions for mask sterilizations.  I'm wondering if I ask. hmmmm

[Terabith]

If you guys can get a pulse oximeter, I'd send him with one of those, too.  A thermometer would definitely be good.  

[lewelma]

2 minutes ago, Terabith said:

If you guys can get a pulse oximeter, I'd send him with one of those, too.  A thermometer would definitely be good.  

Yeah, I've seen you guys talking about them, but haven't really paid attention because we don't need them here.  But now, I'm off to go find one.  

Interestingly the N95 masks here in NZ are not available in their online stores, only in the in person stores.  My guess is that they were being sold out from international purchasers, and there are tradies here that need them.  Hence, the in store only option.  I'm curious if that is true for a pulse oximeter too. 

[melmichigan]

18 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

Are you talking about the German Happy Masks (apparently not good) or the Taiwanese Happy Masks (apparently good)?

The Taiwanese ones linked in this thread

Edited July 5, 2020 by melmichigan

[Ausmumof3]

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamaotolaryngology/article-abstract/2767781
 

4 week follow up study on Covid symptoms show 10pc have no improvement in taste and smell, 50pc complete recovery and 40pc some recovery.

[Ausmumof3]

49 minutes ago, lewelma said:

Yes, my sister order some for her, and routed them through us so we could try them.  They do feel a bit like a wool scarf over your face.  🙂  I don't think they will work for him.  

Of all the things I’ve tried my wool scarf was my favourite so this is good to know.  Though not sure if I’d be able to get them anyway!

[lewelma]

1 minute ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Of all the things I’ve tried my wool scarf was my favourite so this is good to know.  Though not sure if I’d be able to get them anyway!

They are available online, and NZ post is now working again.  You should be able to get them.

[DoraBora]

15 hours ago, lewelma said:

Does anyone have good information on home sterilization of disposable masks.  We have been doing some internet research, but just curious if someone else is studying this.  My ds will be leaving NZ for Boston in about 6 weeks.  He has struggled with acne for years and has it under control, but I'm thinking disposable masks are the best bet. I can get surgical masks at the grocery store (on sale because no on here wants them), and the P2/N95 masks at the hardware store. He could use the surgical masks everyday, and the P2/N95 masks when on airplanes or in crowded areas he can't avoid. We are thinking he just loads up his suitcase, but it sure would be nice to be able to reuse them. We've looked into H2O2 misters (only commercial), UV light (not finding anything portable and cheap), and heat treatment in an oven (we have heard that all the dorm kitchens will be closed). So I'm open to suggestions. 

Could he (dry) iron them?

[RootAnn]

Has anyone seen progress on the spit-PCR tests? Or the breathalyzer ones? (Israel had a breathalyzer test & Ohio State had one, I think.) Dd#1 is going to be tested at least a few times for college this fall & I'm hoping for more comfortable & more accurate tests soon. Quick & accurate would be even better. (Israel's breathalyzer was toured at 90% accurate & to take less than a minute to results.) I haven't seen anything new in a month...

[Pen]

Morning thoughts:

Empirical evidence (“anecdotal”?) rather than clinical studies was used to survive for most of human history. 

That still is significant in my relationship to the world.

 

 

[Pen]

43 minutes ago, RootAnn said:

Has anyone seen progress on the spit-PCR tests? Or the breathalyzer ones? (Israel had a breathalyzer test & Ohio State had one, I think.) Dd#1 is going to be tested at least a few times for college this fall & I'm hoping for more comfortable & more accurate tests soon. Quick & accurate would be even better. (Israel's breathalyzer was toured at 90% accurate & to take less than a minute to results.) I haven't seen anything new in a month...

 

There was a UCBerkeley trial of a saliva test started a few days ago. 

 

[Pen]

This article is dated today, July 5, 2020.  I am confused about the timing.  Is it the case that contact tracing is only now beginning with regard to a 21 yo university student who died of Covid19 last month?

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/05/us/penn-state-student-dies-coronavirus/index.html

 

tested June 20, died June 30 (?) — contact tracing starts July 5 ?  It doesn’t say when positive test result was available. 

is that typical? 

Edited July 5, 2020 by Pen

[Bootsie]

1 hour ago, Pen said:

This article is dated today, July 5, 2020.  I am confused about the timing.  Is it the case that contact tracing is only now beginning with regard to a 21 yo university student who died of Covid19 last month?

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/05/us/penn-state-student-dies-coronavirus/index.html

 

tested June 20, died June 30 (?) — contact tracing starts July 5 ?  It doesn’t say when positive test result was available. 

is that typical? 

I don't know the details of this situation, but the article states that the university "is now" contact tracing--which could have begun before today.  But, I think this points to a broader issue of the process and responsibility for contact tracing.  The individual did not live on campus; the article does not state if he was enrolled in any courses when he became ill. The individual returned home when he started feeling ill.  There is a possibility that the university would not have known he was ill. Then it becomes a question of who is responsible for contact tracing?  The state?  the local public health agency? the university?

[Pen]

1 hour ago, kand said:

 

All of the consumer-oriented masks being sold right now carry similar disclaimers. The manufacturers understandably don’t want to take on any liability if someone contracts Covid while wearing their mask, and there’s no way anyone can guarantee they won’t (even if it was an N95 medical mask being sold to the public). The disclaimer protects them. That said, I have no idea how good the Happy Masks are or aren’t. 

I keep wondering why I haven’t seen wool included in any of the mask fabric testing. It seems to me it could be a great middle or outer layer. So many properties that might make wool helpful (breathable, moisture management, anti-bacterial, temperature regulating, possibly electrostatic?). I have a number of felted wool blankets and I would sacrifice one for mask making if I had any indication it worked well as a filter layer. 

 

I saw an indication of wool scarf fairly low 10-21% ? Slightly better than single layer cotton T-shirt material

felted wool supposed to be much better similar to flannel  — not sure there’s a reason to sacrifice a wool blanket as compared to a piece of flannel or other suitable filter material 

electrostatic aspect is interesting, one place I read said that with a potentially electrostatic material, rubbing mask to achieve electrostatic charge helps significantly   But I don’t know when rubbing would help more versus perhaps weakening materials 

 

[Pen]

 

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/04/link-between-air-pollution-covid-19-deaths-coronavirus-pandemic/

 

 

[Pen]

Monoclonal antibodies

https://youtu.be/WiyjIIpkIJw