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DS got home 3 hours ago!  ❤️❤️

Update-  my youngest is not only short of breath, coughing, dizzy, nausaues, and with headache-  she is also confused.  I called our doctor and talked with him and she is going to be going to the ER.

That's not a blanket right.  If my religion required human sacrifice, I can't practice it.  If my religion required sexual assault, I can't practice it. Freedom of religion isn't a blanket right

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47 minutes ago, Pen said:

An Indian in Germany urges Indians and blacks to get their D checked and take D3 if they are low:

https://youtu.be/2V21MLAGaB0

 

FTR, because I am hopeful that there no ill-will was intended... black is an adjective, a descriptor. I am black/brown (observable fact). I am a black American. I am not *a* black, like a shirt, car, or an elephant. That is dehumanizing and offensive no matter how much conservative media tries to normalize it.

Edited by Sneezyone
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11 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

 

FTR, because I am hopeful that there is no ill-will was intended... black is an adjective, a descriptor. I am black/brown (observable fact). I am a black American. I am not *a* black, like a shirt, car, or an elephant. That is dehumanizing and offensive no matter how much conservative media tries to normalize it.

 

I was trying to get what could possibly be life saving information out to someone...

if you want a rephrase I would be happy to do that    What word or spelling or capital or lack thereof would you like?

I think the Indian man was also trying to help people .  I think he used “black” or “Black” but it was said, not written.  (ETA and went by fast). 

And I don’t think he was limiting himself to you or Americans.  So considering people might be in UK, Canada, Africa, Brazil, etc. etc. , please tell me the right word.

TIA

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8 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

I was trying to get what could possibly be life saving information out to someone...

if you want a rephrase I would be happy to do that    What word or spelling or capital or lack thereof would you like?

I think the Indian man was also trying to help people .  I think he used “black” or “Black” but it was said, not written.  (ETA and went by fast). 

And I don’t think he was limiting himself to you or Americans.  So considering people might be in UK, Canada, Africa, Brazil, etc. etc. , please tell me the right word.

TIA

 

I don't think anyone needs to ape the dehumanizing, colonial language common to India by referring to black people as "blacks" wherever they exist in the world. Any combination of black and PEOPLE or African/Afro- and American, Brazilian, Columbian, Mexican, Cuban, Belizean, Norwegian, Swedish, Polish, Irish, you get the idea... will do. I assure you I was not *feeling* offended. Your language was offensive. Period.

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1 hour ago, Sneezyone said:

 

I don't think anyone needs to ape the dehumanizing, colonial language common to India by referring to black people as "blacks" wherever they exist in the world. Any combination of black and PEOPLE or African/Afro- and American, Brazilian, Columbian, Mexican, Cuban, Belizean, Norwegian, Swedish, Polish, Irish, you get the idea... will do. I assure you I was not *feeling* offended. Your language was offensive. Period.

 

I changed my description now to something like people with high levels of melanin pigment, which is accurate in terms of people for whom the message about D3 May be particularly important, afaik.  

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3 hours ago, Sneezyone said:

 

FTR, because I am hopeful that there no ill-will was intended... black is an adjective, a descriptor. I am black/brown (observable fact). I am a black American. I am not *a* black, like a shirt, car, or an elephant. That is dehumanizing and offensive no matter how much conservative media tries to normalize it.

Here in Australia the indigenous people call themself Black Fella, of course non aboriginal people just call them indigenous people or Aboriginal. So not everyone in the world would be offended. 

I would have said a person with darker skin. And probably caused all sorts of offence 

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3 hours ago, Melissa in Australia said:

Here in Australia the indigenous people call themself Black Fella, of course non aboriginal people just call them indigenous people or Aboriginal. So not everyone in the world would be offended. 

I would have said a person with darker skin. And probably caused all sorts of offence 


So they, too, include some HUMAN element and don’t refer to them selves as *a* yellow or a red? They’re not a teal or a blue?

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So we are moving to stage “2.5” soon meaning gatherings of up to 75.  Stage 3 is going to be unlimited now provided you can maintain a 4sqm per person area.  That’s coming in end of June.  By end of July borders are opening.  I must admit I’m hoping that’s not a bad decision but nsw and vic are doing better.

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China are reporting three cases in Beijing.  Generally speaking it seems like once they officially report some cases there is some level of outbreak happening in that area.  At least one was listed as domestically acquired.

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CNA- “The two patients, both male, were reported from a different part of Beijing than the case reported on Thursday. They both work at the same facility for the China Meat Food Comprehensive Research Center, which conducts research on subjects including meat processing, state media reported  It was not immediately clear how the two men were infected”

it appears that two of the cases in Beijing are linked to a meat research centre.  A meat market looks like it has also been shut down.   It has also delayed the return of lower grade primary students to school in the city. 

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7 hours ago, Melissa in Australia said:

Here in Australia the indigenous people call themself Black Fella, of course non aboriginal people just call them indigenous people or Aboriginal. So not everyone in the world would be offended. 

 

When I lived in Brazil we were described by color (morena, for example) not race or an ancestral country.  That may be different now.

 

7 hours ago, Melissa in Australia said:

I would have said a person with darker skin. And probably caused all sorts of offence 

 

With regard to vitamin D, Darker skin is afaik the issue. Someone with darker skin from, say, Spain would have a similar vitamin D production issue as someone of part African ancestry with similar skin melanin. At least to the best of my knowledge, the difficulty with producing vitamin D relates to the pigment (flip side of protection from sun burn) not to politics or ethnic affiliation. 

The man in the video was particularly speaking to the people of India because it is (they are) so very extremely at risk. 

However, Vitamin D may not be the only issue relevant to CV19 that has aspects related to ethnicity or skin pigment. And unfortunately IMO the current political climate is such that discussion of these seems to be pretty much off The table, for example possible ACE2 differences. Or possible blood clotting differences. But those really would only relate to in hospital care situation, whereas Vitamins are things we can work on at home. 

 

https://www.kare11.com/article/news/local/breaking-the-news/african-american-or-black-which-term-should-you-use/89-0364644d-3896-4e8b-91b1-7c28c039353f

 

terminology in medical contexts (British):

https://jech.bmj.com/content/58/6/441

 

 

 

 

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9 hours ago, Melissa in Australia said:

Here in Australia the indigenous people call themself Black Fella, of course non aboriginal people just call them indigenous people or Aboriginal. So not everyone in the world would be offended. 

I would have said a person with darker skin. And probably caused all sorts of offence 

As Sneezy pointed out, the word Fella (fellow in standard English, correct?) is the difference. I think that communities who have had a history of being dehumanized are especially conscious of terms that don’t include a noun with the modifier. In a nonracial example it would be someone who wanted to be called an “autistic person “ vs “an autistic”.  

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2 hours ago, Pen said:

However, Vitamin D may not be the only issue relevant to CV19 that has aspects related to ethnicity or skin pigment. And unfortunately IMO the current political climate is such that discussion of these seems to be pretty much off The table, for example possible ACE2 differences. Or possible blood clotting differences. But those really would only relate to in hospital care situation, whereas Vitamins are things we can work on at home. 

 

Actually, there may be other things that can be worked on at home that tend also to be different, such as zinc and magnesium  (again tending to be a global deficiency problem, but perhaps even more so in some populations), and arginine levels which tend apparently to be lower in some groups (and may have some protection re coronavirus, though tends to promote shingles, so unclear). 

breathing exercises to promote NO which may tend to be biologically lower  could be done at home 

 

 

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Nitric Oxide

 

NO specifically alters a surface protein on SARS-1, known as the spike protein, such that it cannot attach to the ACE2 receptor. This results in blocking viral entry into the cell as well as the subsequent replication of the virus. Since SARS-CoV-2 shares the same mechanism of cell entry, we can relatively confidently assume that NO would have a similar effect regarding this novel virus.  “

 

About NO, suggested foods to eat etc:

https://www.clinicaleducation.org/resources/reviews/are-you-nitric-oxide-deficient-part-1-of-2/

 

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Pen said:

That's a fascinating article, thanks for linking it!

Do you happen to know if there are any effective supplements for people who are deficient in NO? I worry about DS — when he's on campus, he can literally go weeks at a time where the only "vegetables" consumed will be tomato sauce and various potato products. 🤦‍♀️

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6 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

That's a fascinating article, thanks for linking it!

Do you happen to know if there are any effective supplements for people who are deficient in NO? I worry about DS — when he's on campus, he can literally go weeks at a time where the only "vegetables" consumed will be tomato sauce and various potato products. 🤦‍♀️

 

Here’s link to part 2

https://www.clinicaleducation.org/resources/reviews/are-you-nitric-oxide-deficient-part-2-of-2-2/

 

I know some supplements, but not if they are themselves safe.  Arginine and Citrulline supposed to be NO promoting (or in case of arginine, necessary for the NO metabolic pathway) for example.  If he is low in arginine (lots of people are, especially possibly again a particular problem on India subcontinent and for some other groups as with D and zinc and magnesium) I would definitely supplement that, but not sure about if arginine is already normal.  I think these are both optimum level exists and both too high and too low are problems, not where too much is just excreted, but I am not sure of that either. 

 

Could he be encouraged toward greens? 

And I think beets are also good, but, um, probably even harder to achieve than greens. 

Or exercise? I think people of far north latitudes had help of exercise rather than greens. 

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@Corraleno 

 

For the nitrates for a vegetable non eater:

Celery powder?  

Maybe a V8 type juice?

 

(I think probably ***all*** aspects of the NO pathway have to be there— sufficient Nitrate, ***and**  sufficient arginine, for example)

 

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I just watched a video on the BBC news website about patients getting turned away from hospitals in India because of insufficient resources or fear of treating Covid 19 patients. Does anyone know which aid agencies are working in India at the moment? I know Medecins Sans Frontieres are working in various countries.

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9 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

 

Major problem!

Numbers still “fairly” low, but exponential graph curve! 

Great concern it could become worst hit part of world very fast. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Pen said:

 

Here’s link to part 2

https://www.clinicaleducation.org/resources/reviews/are-you-nitric-oxide-deficient-part-2-of-2-2/

And I think beets are also good, but, um, probably even harder to achieve than greens. 

Or exercise? I think people of far north latitudes had help of exercise rather than greens. 

 

No way to get him to eat greens, but the info in the linked article about beets was very useful, because (1) beet powder is available in capsules and (2) apparently Olympic athletes use it to improve performance and recovery time, so that is perfect for him. Thank you SO much — these links have been super helpful! 👍

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5 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

As Sneezy pointed out, the word Fella (fellow in standard English, correct?) is the difference. I think that communities who have had a history of being dehumanized are especially conscious of terms that don’t include a noun with the modifier. In a nonracial example it would be someone who wanted to be called an “autistic person “ vs “an autistic”.  

Here Fella would be pigeon English for man so black fella =black man

as I said non aboriginal don't use this term

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https://youtu.be/kmo_1Tcdp30

https://youtu.be/kmo_1Tcdp30

 

today Dr John global update starts with India.  I think he worked there in past and has contacts and interest in the area.  

 

My halfsister has done volunteer medical work in India, and I know from her there’s a widespread severe infrastructure problem , which will probably worsen with pandemic plus monsoon season .

Earlier there had been reports of landlords kicking doctors out of housing (for fear of CV19) as yet another problem. 

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I got another chest xray (still clear). Covid test in an urgent care office tomorrow person with the promise of a live person listening to me breathe!

DS was negative for strep and was given a C19 test (results Sunday?), but it seems likely he got a different viral throat thing at the orthodontist.

It took pretty much the entire day to accomplish the above. And DH called his doctor to see if they'd refer him for a good antibody test (his office reopens next month) and they told him they're not doing that. I assume that's because LabCorp is all that can be had here, even though Cellex is a local company and Abbott is supposed to be nationwide. This is a problem if I'm still sick and they want him to go back and we don't know his status. His workplace is set up for collaboration, not distancing. Tests, new cases, and hospitalizations are all up in NC.

From the state dashboard (https://covid19.ncdhhs.gov/latest-updates) this afternoon:

Quote

Today is North Carolina’s highest day of new cases (1,768) since the pandemic started. COVID-19 remains a serious threat to our state and the trends are concerning.

 

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BTW the hospital let me walk in with just a temperature screening (I did have a cloth mask on); and employees were not very successful about wearing masks correctly and all the time, except the person who actually did my xray.

The other 2 patients I saw, by contrast, wore cloth masks and stayed as far from me as possible.

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50 minutes ago, whitehawk said:

I got another chest xray (still clear). Covid test in an urgent care office tomorrow person with the promise of a live person listening to me breathe!

DS was negative for strep and was given a C19 test (results Sunday?), but it seems likely he got a different viral throat thing at the orthodontist.

It took pretty much the entire day to accomplish the above. And DH called his doctor to see if they'd refer him for a good antibody test (his office reopens next month) and they told him they're not doing that. I assume that's because LabCorp is all that can be had here, even though Cellex is a local company and Abbott is supposed to be nationwide. This is a problem if I'm still sick and they want him to go back and we don't know his status. His workplace is set up for collaboration, not distancing. Tests, new cases, and hospitalizations are all up in NC.

From the state dashboard (https://covid19.ncdhhs.gov/latest-updates) this afternoon:

 

 

Can your husband wear a mask? Assume he is not immune?

It sounds like if your lungs are clear you may have bronchitis or asthma? For troubles breathing, but not pneumonia, and assuming normal heart

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17 minutes ago, Pen said:

Can your husband wear a mask? Assume he is not immune?

He will have trouble tolerating it all day, on phone calls, etc. And he has to eat lunch somewhere (as does everybody else), which can't be done masked--outdoor lunch would be Very Unpopular at midday in the hottest part of the year (and it rains quite a bit here, too).

And it's not just him--there's no indication that our local numbers will be better in a month. He says he thinks they'll push the date out. But it would still be nice to know if he's had it. If so, we would be the poster family for blood type O vs. A for the ACE receptor variation hypothesis.

Meanwhile, Instacart made good money from us today.

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Is anyone aware of a study that looks at results of testing for COVID in someone who had symptoms for awhile, had no symptoms, and then they returned months later?  I suspect COVID but the recent test was negative. The person was never tested the first time. Also, does anyone know if they could still be contagious in this scenario? I was thinking I read no (somewhere)?

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1 hour ago, whitehawk said:

He will have trouble tolerating it all day, on phone calls, etc. And he has to eat lunch somewhere (as does everybody else), which can't be done masked--outdoor lunch would be Very Unpopular at midday in the hottest part of the year (and it rains quite a bit here, too).

 

Masks and Eating lunch etc: 

This is going to be a problem in all sorts of situations IMO. Jobs, schools, etc.  I think it deserves a thread of its own. 

Possibly a comfortable enough mask would work for talking on phone, but clearly not for eating. 

 

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1 hour ago, Pen said:

 

Masks and Eating lunch etc: 

This is going to be a problem in all sorts of situations IMO. Jobs, schools, etc.  I think it deserves a thread of its own. 

Taiwan’s yellow dividers for school https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-taiwan-schools/taiwan-school-uses-dividers-during-lunch-to-counter-coronavirus-idUSKBN21029K

 

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Beijing - I have seen tweets that Covid was found on a salmon chopping board, that salmon is unlikely to be a virus vector, that 10,000 people are being tested and that Beijing residents are being urged to maintain wartime measures.  Residents from 11 residential complexes In Fengtai district are being asked to stay at home.  Another market has extended hours to make up for the other market  closing.

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20 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

As Sneezy pointed out, the word Fella (fellow in standard English, correct?) is the difference. I think that communities who have had a history of being dehumanized are especially conscious of terms that don’t include a noun with the modifier. In a nonracial example it would be someone who wanted to be called an “autistic person “ vs “an autistic”.  

I have a friend whose son has severe autism. That is her hill to die on. I learned from her that “your son with autism” was way preferable to “your autistic son.” Small change. Worth the effort. 

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7 minutes ago, Quill said:

I have a friend whose son has severe autism. That is her hill to die on. I learned from her that “your son with autism” was way preferable to “your autistic son.” Small change. Worth the effort. 

And there is not consensus with everyone. Youngest is insistent she is not someone “with autism” and instead “is autistic”. It’s just who she is and not something she has like cancer. 🤷‍♀️

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5 minutes ago, Joker said:

And there is not consensus with everyone. Youngest is insistent she is not someone “with autism” and instead “is autistic”. It’s just who she is and not something she has like cancer. 🤷‍♀️

Pretty much the same for DS21, although he doesn't care all that much either way.

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I guess the schools in Taiwan have a way to sanitize the lunch dividers? It would be a bit trickier in workplaces where people don't have their own desk space & adults would need much taller dividers than young kids. DH would probably just as soon eat in the parking garage.

I googled to see what's being recommended. Connecticut says employees can only take masks off long enough to eat and drink and breaks should be staggered.

I suspect a lot of company break rooms are small on the assumption that people will eat at a restaurant or something. I'll start a thread.

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crossing fingers!  The stadium is sold out in Auckland! 40k capacity.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/super-rugby/121814873/super-rugby-aotearoa-eden-park-sold-out-for-blues-v-hurricanes-blockbuster

BLM marches in all major cities today. Look at the photos: no masks required. 

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/418971/thousands-of-nzers-march-for-black-lives-matter

We are about ready to find out how well we have eliminated the virus.

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https://nltimes.nl/2020/06/12/shocking-nearly-recovered-covid-19-health-issues-months-later
 

long term impact of Covid.  I’m not familiar with the source so not sure about reliability.

“Many recovered coronavirus patients who did not need to be hospitalized are still facing serious health problems months later, according to a study commissioned by the Longfonds. While 94 percent say they do not feel as healthy as they did before the viral infection, some 60 percent of this group said they still have breathing symptoms which make it difficult to take a walk, and nearly half are unable to exercise, Longfonds director Michael Rutgers said in a statement. "We find this really shocking."

The Longfonds, treatment center CIRO, and Maastricht University surveyed 1,600 people who reported they had symptoms after recovering from the coronavirus. Rutgers said it was the first time that these patients have really come into the picture, as most were never treated in medical centers. Longfonds and CIRO said 91 percent of respondents were not hospitalized, and 43 percent were never formally tested for Covid-19, the respiratory disease caused by this SARS-CoV-2 coronavirus.

These recovered patients told researchers that they still suffer from symptoms like tightness in the chest, fatigue, headaches, or shortness of breath almost three months after recovering. 85 percent of participants said they were in good health before getting the coronavirus. Only six percent said that their health is back to what it was before their infection. The average age of those surveyed was 53.”

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From CGTN “Six more areas in #Beijing have upgraded their #coronavirus risk level to medium. Meanwhile, Huaxiang Town in Beijing's southern Fengtai District goes from medium to high risk, after Beijing detected 36 more coronavirus cases Saturday, an app of China's State Council shows."

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2 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

https://nltimes.nl/2020/06/12/shocking-nearly-recovered-covid-19-health-issues-months-later
 

long term impact of Covid.  I’m not familiar with the source so not sure about reliability.

“Many recovered coronavirus patients who did not need to be hospitalized are still facing serious health problems months later, according to a study commissioned by the Longfonds. While 94 percent say they do not feel as healthy as they did before the viral infection, some 60 percent of this group said they still have breathing symptoms which make it difficult to take a walk, and nearly half are unable to exercise, Longfonds director Michael Rutgers said in a statement. "We find this really shocking."

The Longfonds, treatment center CIRO, and Maastricht University surveyed 1,600 people who reported they had symptoms after recovering from the coronavirus. Rutgers said it was the first time that these patients have really come into the picture, as most were never treated in medical centers. Longfonds and CIRO said 91 percent of respondents were not hospitalized, and 43 percent were never formally tested for Covid-19, the respiratory disease caused by this SARS-CoV-2 coronavirus.

These recovered patients told researchers that they still suffer from symptoms like tightness in the chest, fatigue, headaches, or shortness of breath almost three months after recovering. 85 percent of participants said they were in good health before getting the coronavirus. Only six percent said that their health is back to what it was before their infection. The average age of those surveyed was 53.”

The source may be fine, but the study was based on an online survey. That would be questionable enough on its own, but the survey questions look like they were asked on a website that is designed to provide support to people with lingering symptom... Clearly there is a huge self-selection bias at play here.

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2 minutes ago, TracyP said:

The source may be fine, but the study was based on an online survey. That would be questionable enough on its own, but the survey questions look like they were asked on a website that is designed to provide support to people with lingering symptom... Clearly there is a huge self-selection bias at play here.

Yes good point.  The fact that the age of the sample size was older made me think there was likely some selection bias going on.  That said I don’t think they were doing a calculation as to the percentage of people experience lingering symptoms it was more a breakdown of what those symptoms were in the people that had them?  

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