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51 minutes ago, Quill said:

Maybe a poster has been removed from the forum entirely. I think that is the reason. 

That made me super sad to see.

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DS got home 3 hours ago!  ❤️❤️

Update-  my youngest is not only short of breath, coughing, dizzy, nausaues, and with headache-  she is also confused.  I called our doctor and talked with him and she is going to be going to the ER.

That's not a blanket right.  If my religion required human sacrifice, I can't practice it.  If my religion required sexual assault, I can't practice it. Freedom of religion isn't a blanket right

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Someone posted side by sides of the Philly protests today and the parade in Philly that helped set off the second wave of Spanish flu. I am not feeling good about any of this.

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1 hour ago, Quill said:

It appears that way to me. I don’t think it used to be so but it looks like it to me now. Maybe it’s only by request for the poster, i.e., “please delete all my content.” I imagine the mods can do it; that’s what they do when trolls come in and spam fifteen threads. 

Or maybe they were like me.  I couldn't keep myself from being on here.  I just thought they would stop me from being able to sign in, but all of my content was completely erased. Gone. I didn't know she would do that. 

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2 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Wow.  Flu cases are way down this year.

A31D747C-4625-4BFD-988C-AD2B1907DFAA.png

Well, that makes sense. Social distancing limits the spread of... everything.  Is that chart for you guys down under? I was having a confusing moment wondering why flu cases were going up on the spring... Fall makes more sense!

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6 hours ago, EmseB said:

Isn't this type of thing a risk after any long illness requiring hospitalization and intubation or dialysis? Embolism, clots, etc., have always been on my radar after childbirth, surgery, hospital stays, etc.

I'm not saying it's not bad, but getting very sick often creates these kinds of problems, not specific to sars2.

 

Some people with Covid who have not been hospitalized or bedridden have died suddenly from clots. Even healthy teenagers. A 16 year old in our area was on the mend, feeling better, but died suddenly from a stroke. I also read an MD’s account of treating a Covid patient’s clot and as soon as the clot was removed, another began to form. Very weird!

For intubated patients, a small study was done that showed giving a therapeutic dose of an anticoagulant helped patients with no signs of clots survive. Normally, they’d likely give a smaller, prophylactic dose but the larger, therapeutic dose worked better.

N-acetyl-cysteine might also help prevent clots but it’s probably best to only take it until vaccine or reliable treatment arrives or the virus has definitely become milder.

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30 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

twitter thread estimating likely impact of protests on covid cases.  Very rough estimates but interesting reading.

600K daily protesters, though? I’m not a numbers gal but that seems too high to me.  I have no imagination for numbers, though, so maybe! 

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14 hours ago, Quill said:

600K daily protesters, though? I’m not a numbers gal but that seems too high to me.  I have no imagination for numbers, though, so maybe! 

I think that's a good # for some days but not all days. But he makes so many other assumptions that could be high (# of infected in the crowd) or low (# of other people infected by each sick person there). Plus, masks, outdoors (both theoretically lowering transmission), chanting, close contact, coughing from tear gas/pepper spray  (raising risk of transmission) all figure in & are dependent on location. Lots not masking in some areas but almost everyone masking in others.

I continue to hope that the sun/air outdoors lowers the transmission.

Edited by RootAnn
Typo/autocorrect
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I started a thread related to breathing, which may relate to respiratory and circulatory system health https://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/699606-%E2%80%9Ctake-a-deep-breath%E2%80%9D-may-be-opposite-needed/

Other thread

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15 hours ago, BeachGal said:

N-acetyl-cysteine might also help prevent clots but it’s probably best to only take it until vaccine or reliable treatment arrives or the virus has definitely become milder.

 

Do you know of NAC dangers?

I thought it was quite a safe supplement at ~1000mg /day.  

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21 hours ago, EmseB said:

That made me super sad to see.

Is there a way to tell who it was?  Someone might just have needed a break.

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21 minutes ago, mathnerd said:

Strange/unusual symptoms of COVID: these links have a list of symptoms that we don't normally associate with COVID.

https://time.com/5837591/unusual-symptoms-of-coronavirus/

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/strange-symptoms-flare-ups-weeks-long-illnesses-for-some-covid-19-survivors-1.5587446

 

 

I saved a link to the CBC article for potential future reference. 

It mentions some symptoms that people I know where we suspect CV19 though no test done irl say they have had ...  

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55 minutes ago, Mom2mthj said:

Is there a way to tell who it was?  Someone might just have needed a break.

It was Stella...we disagreed on a lot but I always liked reading her posts.

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23 hours ago, Terabith said:

If a poster is removed, all of their posts are removed, too???

 

It is if I ban them. I assume SWB has other powers, but the only way I can ban someone is to mark them as a spammer, so that's what I do when people ask me to ban them.

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On 6/6/2020 at 1:24 PM, Joker said:

https://www.wthr.com/article/health-official-no-new-covid-19-cases-missouri-parties-1

Looks like some good news. They are saying they only had the one case of Covid show up from the huge pool party in Missouri over Memorial Day weekend. I think we’re right at the two week mark. 

I worry that it might be too soon to tell though. Most of the people at the pool party were young and there was a fair amount of negative reaction to them locally so I wonder if they would be too keen to seek testing if their symptoms are relatively mild. I'm a bit concerned about the people they might pass it on to, who may not be in the same age group. Even then we may never know because I'm not too sure how much enthusiasm there is for contract tracing etc around here. I believe the one case they know about is from a county near by and that county is having a bit of an increase right now. 

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If Covid can be transmitted through feces and urine and the droplets that can come up when you flush that does not bode well for public bathrooms or bathrooms in schools and office buildings, does it? We will need these bathrooms when we open up? Will they disinfect the toilet after each person uses it?

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@Ausmumof3@Pen@lewelma

New Zealand 🇳🇿 

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/world/new-zealand-covid-19-no-active-case-coronavirus-12814532

“WELLINGTON: New Zealand has no active COVID-19 cases after the country's final patient was given the all-clear and released from isolation, health authorities said Monday (Jun 8). 

The milestone was "really good news" and an achievement the whole of New Zealand could take heart from, health department director-general Ashley Bloomfield said.

"Having no active cases for the first time since Feb 28 is certainly a significant mark in our journey but, as we've previously said, ongoing vigilance against COVID-19 will continue to be essential," he said in a statement.

New Zealand has won praise for its handling of the pandemic, which involved a strict seven-week lockdown that ended last month after the virus was contained.

The South Pacific nation, with a population of five million, has had 1,154 confirmed cases and 22 deaths.

There have been no new infections for 17 days and, until Monday, just one active case for more than a week.

Details of the final patient were not released for privacy reasons but it is believed to be a woman aged in her 50s who was linked to a cluster at an Auckland nursing home.

"(The) remaining case has been symptom-free for 48 hours and is regarded as recovered. The person has now been released from isolation," the health department said.

Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern is expected to announce later Monday that New Zealand will this week move to alert Level 1, the lowest rating on its four-tier virus response system.

Under the change, international border restrictions will remain in place but the final domestic curbs - such as limits on public gatherings and mandatory social distancing - will be removed.”

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1 hour ago, Arcadia said:

Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern is expected to announce later Monday that New Zealand will this week move to alert Level 1, the lowest rating on its four-tier virus response system.

Under the change, international border restrictions will remain in place but the final domestic curbs - such as limits on public gatherings and mandatory social distancing - will be removed.”

We are moving to level 1 as of Midnight tonight.

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47 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Worldwide past 7million cases and US passed 2 million on worldometer 

 

And as you probably already reported, deaths are past 400,000 — which has mostly been in just the last two months.  And though China seems flat, and Oceania doing well, Europe, and North and South America look to still be on exponential rise in deaths.  And looks like Africa will join that.

4 hours ago, Pen said:

Deaths

from Ourworldindata.org

 

 

CA3AA90A-A33B-4999-B4BA-234A55AB3179.jpeg

 

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On 6/6/2020 at 3:26 PM, Quill said:

Maybe a poster has been removed from the forum entirely. I think that is the reason. 

I was in another thread, and I noticed one specific name that was missing. I don't know if there is more than one. I just noticed that particular name because their posts were really harsh in tone and would seem to try to pick a fight with other people. So much so, I tried to scroll past because those posts came off rather politically charged. I noticed that on this thread as well.

Edited by calbear
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21 minutes ago, kiwi mum said:

We are moving to level 1 as of Midnight tonight.

Stadiums!  They are allowing people to attend events in stadiums!  There are no social distancing requirements, no limitations on group size, and no suggestion to wear masks. 

Edited by lewelma
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7 hours ago, Pen said:

 

I saved a link to the CBC article for potential future reference. 

It mentions some symptoms that people I know where we suspect CV19 though no test done irl say they have had ...  

here is some more of it (tinnitus? arthritis? who knew?)

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/15/weird-hell-professor-advent-calendar-covid-19-symptoms-paul-garner

 

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another thread about potential impacts of protests plus opening.  It does have some strong political opinions so be warned, however also had some graphs as to where various states, locations are at in case that’s of interest.  Utah, Arkansas, Arizona and the Carolinas Of most concern  

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On 6/6/2020 at 1:53 PM, Arctic Mama said:

Quick encouraging summary out of Pennsylvania, this fits with what is being observed across the country in terms of infection rates and virulence, as well as severity 🙂

https://disrn.com/news/u-of-pittsburgh-medical-center-covid-19-has-become-less-prevalent-isnt-making-people-as-sick

 

I read a similar article about cases in Italy.  The Italian doctors were saying that the cases they saw were not nearly as severe as they were at the start of the outbreak. 

It kind of makes sense, though. The more lethal strains of a virus will die out because it kills off too many hosts before it can spread further. What you are left with is a less lethal version that doesn't kill off as many hosts. 

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39 minutes ago, MissLemon said:

 

I read a similar article about cases in Italy.  The Italian doctors were saying that the cases they saw were not nearly as severe as they were at the start of the outbreak. 

It kind of makes sense, though. The more lethal strains of a virus will die out because it kills off too many hosts before it can spread further. What you are left with is a less lethal version that doesn't kill off as many hosts. 

The only weird thing with this is at this stage it seems like the strains haven’t mutated or changed a lot.  It does seem to be less deadly somehow yet from what the tests are finding it’s the same virus.

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5 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

The only weird thing with this is at this stage it seems like the strains haven’t mutated or changed a lot.  It does seem to be less deadly somehow yet from what the tests are finding it’s the same virus.

 

This video addresses that:

https://youtu.be/wV8nF-MSlAs

 

 

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

The only weird thing with this is at this stage it seems like the strains haven’t mutated or changed a lot.  It does seem to be less deadly somehow yet from what the tests are finding it’s the same virus.

Do you think it might be less deadly because we have learned at least some methods of better treatment even if we don't have a "cure" ? I think, at least in the US, that the initial recommendation of early ventilation lead to worse outcomes.

ETA Which was one of the reasons we talked about how it was better to contract it later rather than earlier.

Edited by TCB
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14 minutes ago, TCB said:

Do you think it might be less deadly because we have learned at least some methods of better treatment even if we don't have a "cure" ? I think, at least in the US, that the initial recommendation of early ventilation lead to worse outcomes.

ETA Which was one of the reasons we talked about how it was better to contract it later rather than earlier.

Exactly.  The more we figure out about this, the more we can catch it early, the more likely it will be less deadly, even before a vaccine.  I have no understanding of why anyone would have wanted to get this early.  If I can't avoid it entirely, I'm going to avoid it as long as possible!

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24 minutes ago, TCB said:

Do you think it might be less deadly because we have learned at least some methods of better treatment even if we don't have a "cure" ? I think, at least in the US, that the initial recommendation of early ventilation lead to worse outcomes.

ETA Which was one of the reasons we talked about how it was better to contract it later rather than earlier.

 

Sure. 

Many possibilities...

PPE production and use has been increasing. So perhaps health care and first responders are getting lesser viral loads, thus fewer deaths in some of those groups 

In places like Italy it already decimated the most vulnerable, so remaining hosts are less likely to die (perhaps instead in many places there’s an increase in ‘long tail’ cases rather than deaths). 

Maybe some people in some places are catching on to things like Vitamin D, zinc, etc... which could perhaps be helpful for getting less severe /fatal cases...    India seems to be finding HCQ helpful and prophylactically correlated with less severe / fatal outcomes ...  perhaps things like MATH plus protocols help ...

 

 

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I haven't had time to look at this study yet, but it's being spun as pretty solid evidence that masks help.

Quote

In a scientific article published in the journal Cell, scientists at the UNC Gillings School of Global Public Health and the UNC School of Medicine have characterized the specific ways in which SARS-CoV-2 — the coronavirus that causes COVID-19 — infects the nasal cavity to a great degree by replicating specific cell types, and infects and replicates progressively less well in cells lower down the respiratory tract, including in the lungs.

The findings suggest the virus tends to become firmly established first in the nasal cavity. Then, in some cases, the virus is aspirated into the lungs where it may cause more serious disease, including potentially fatal pneumonia.

“If the nose is the dominant initial site from which lung infections are seeded, then the widespread use of masks to protect the nasal passages, as well as any therapeutic strategies that reduce virus in the nose, such as nasal irrigation or antiviral nasal sprays, could be beneficial,” said study co-senior author Dr. Richard Boucher, the James C. Moeser Eminent Distinguished Professor of medicine and director of the Marsico Lung Institute at the UNC School of Medicine.

 

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3 hours ago, Pen said:

 

Sure. 

Many possibilities...

PPE production and use has been increasing. So perhaps health care and first responders are getting lesser viral loads, thus fewer deaths in some of those groups 

In places like Italy it already decimated the most vulnerable, so remaining hosts are less likely to die (perhaps instead in many places there’s an increase in ‘long tail’ cases rather than deaths). 

Maybe some people in some places are catching on to things like Vitamin D, zinc, etc... which could perhaps be helpful for getting less severe /fatal cases...    India seems to be finding HCQ helpful and prophylactically correlated with less severe / fatal outcomes ...  perhaps things like MATH plus protocols help ...

 

 

I have a friend who is a nurse in a northern rust belt state.  He said that both plasma and HCQ seem to be working on his patients, and that those who die are mostly elderly with several underlying conditions.  

Hopefully that is true and people are getting good vitamin D with the start of summer to ward off more severe problems.

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2 hours ago, Pawz4me said:

I haven't had time to look at this study yet, but it's being spun as pretty solid evidence that masks help.

 

 

  Quote

The findings suggest the virus tends to become firmly established first in the nasal cavity. Then, in some cases, the virus is aspirated into the lungs where it may cause more serious disease, including potentially fatal pneumonia.

“If the nose is the dominant initial site from which lung infections are seeded, then the widespread use of masks to protect the nasal passages, as well as any therapeutic strategies that reduce virus in the nose, such as nasal irrigation or antiviral nasal sprays, could be beneficial,” said study co-senior author Dr. Richard Boucher, the James C. Moeser Eminent Distinguished Professor of medicine and director of the Marsico Lung Institute at the UNC School of Medicine.

I would be very curious if there is a difference between mouth breathers and nose breathers.  I have never for as long as I can remember breathed through my nose without giving it conscience thought first.  I had no idea that most people breathe through their nose.  I remember having surgery once and they put the nose thing with oxygen on me.  As soon as I woke up, I asked to have it removed and the nurse is like "no, you need the extra oxygen".  I told her I'm not breathing through my nose so how does it help"  She was aghast at the idea I was breathing through my mouth but I told her that was normal for me. So she checked my oxygen levels, then removed the nose thing and check them again later and once she was satisfied that my oxygen was fine she finally removed it for good.  But she was as shocked to learn that I never breathe through my nose as I was to learn that people normally did.

Edited by cjzimmer1
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1 hour ago, cjzimmer1 said:

 

  Quote

The findings suggest the virus tends to become firmly established first in the nasal cavity. Then, in some cases, the virus is aspirated into the lungs where it may cause more serious disease, including potentially fatal pneumonia.

“If the nose is the dominant initial site from which lung infections are seeded, then the widespread use of masks to protect the nasal passages, as well as any therapeutic strategies that reduce virus in the nose, such as nasal irrigation or antiviral nasal sprays, could be beneficial,” said study co-senior author Dr. Richard Boucher, the James C. Moeser Eminent Distinguished Professor of medicine and director of the Marsico Lung Institute at the UNC School of Medicine.

I would be very curious if there is a difference between mouth breathers and nose breathers.  I have never for as long as I can remember breathed through my nose without giving it conscience thought first.  I had no idea that most people breathe through their nose.  I remember having surgery once and they put the nose thing with oxygen on me.  As soon as I woke up, I asked to have it removed and the nurse is like "no, you need the extra oxygen".  I told her I'm not breathing through my nose so how does it help"  She was aghast at the idea I was breathing through my mouth but I told her that was normal for me. So she checked my oxygen levels, then removed the nose thing and check them again later and once she was satisfied that my oxygen was fine she finally removed it for good.  But she was as shocked to learn that I never breathe through my nose as I was to learn that people normally did.

 

From a CV19 POV that’s an interesting question.  

I don’t know how that would work out with potential competing considerations I know about, let alone ones I don’t.

The issue of nose being primary initial site (or is that because most people are nose breathers?)

more potential direct brain access from nose 

vs

 Nitric  Oxide being higher for nose breathing

 usually immunity thought to be enhanced for nose breathing 

possible more cilia etc to help strain out virus before getting down in lungs when breathing through nose

 

????

definitely an interesting question even for which to do short term when in an indoor space that could have virus present  !!!

 

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https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7200356/

relates to nose v mouth breathing @cjzimmer1 but is speculative based on other illnesses, not a study

 

(Higher natural NO may be a physiological difference adding to behavior differences for why Asian countries seem to have have done relatively better than Europe, the Americas, and likely Africa.  In addition to Vitamin D differences, ACE2 receptors etc.  ) 

Edited by Pen
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8 hours ago, TCB said:

Do you think it might be less deadly because we have learned at least some methods of better treatment even if we don't have a "cure" ? I think, at least in the US, that the initial recommendation of early ventilation lead to worse outcomes.

ETA Which was one of the reasons we talked about how it was better to contract it later rather than earlier.

Yes I hope so and also the understanding around blood clotting risks etc. this is the less acknowledged benefit of the shutdowns - time to work how it works 

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2 hours ago, Arctic Mama said:

Yes, I think that is exactly it.  And potentially who and where it is spreading.  5000 cases in a college isn’t as worrisome as 20 in a nursing home, because of risk profiles.  So if we are seeing many cases but they’re mild and diffuse in the general population that’s not bad news, per se.  Lower lethality is always a plus.

 

Are a lot of colleges with populations over 5000 open for in person classes without SDing etc. ?

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48 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

Some, but not many.  Interestingly Liberty hasn’t seen a spike in cases despite being open almost the whole time and not requiring the dorms to empty out.  That’s also positive news.

 

From Liberty University website:

 

 

“What impact does Governor Northam’s March 30 Executive Order have on operations at Liberty University?

Liberty was already operating in compliance with most provisions of Order 55.  After the March 30 Order, Liberty closed down the only remaining in person instruction, which had been in the School of Aviation, having previously moved all of its other classroom instruction to an online delivery format and either discontinued labs or used substitute formats.  Additionally, Liberty is informing its residential students of the travel restrictions in the Order and adjusting its curfew and checkout policies to support these new restrictions. “

 

????

 

it sounds like even if dorms were open, there were major SDing restrictions 

 

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5 hours ago, cjzimmer1 said:

 

  Quote

The findings suggest the virus tends to become firmly established first in the nasal cavity. Then, in some cases, the virus is aspirated into the lungs where it may cause more serious disease, including potentially fatal pneumonia.

“If the nose is the dominant initial site from which lung infections are seeded, then the widespread use of masks to protect the nasal passages, as well as any therapeutic strategies that reduce virus in the nose, such as nasal irrigation or antiviral nasal sprays, could be beneficial,” said study co-senior author Dr. Richard Boucher, the James C. Moeser Eminent Distinguished Professor of medicine and director of the Marsico Lung Institute at the UNC School of Medicine.

I would be very curious if there is a difference between mouth breathers and nose breathers.  I have never for as long as I can remember breathed through my nose without giving it conscience thought first.  I had no idea that most people breathe through their nose.  I remember having surgery once and they put the nose thing with oxygen on me.  As soon as I woke up, I asked to have it removed and the nurse is like "no, you need the extra oxygen".  I told her I'm not breathing through my nose so how does it help"  She was aghast at the idea I was breathing through my mouth but I told her that was normal for me. So she checked my oxygen levels, then removed the nose thing and check them again later and once she was satisfied that my oxygen was fine she finally removed it for good.  But she was as shocked to learn that I never breathe through my nose as I was to learn that people normally did.

How do you not breathe through your nose? Even when my mouth is open I still have air coming in and out my nose.

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3 hours ago, Pen said:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7200356/

relates to nose v mouth breathing @cjzimmer1 but is speculative based on other illnesses, not a study

 

(Higher natural NO may be a physiological difference adding to behavior differences for why Asian countries seem to have have done relatively better than Europe, the Americas, and likely Africa.  In addition to Vitamin D differences, ACE2 receptors etc.  ) 

I’m wondering if dairy consumption plays a role?  I get more congestion, mouth breathing when I have too much dairy.  And dairy seems to be less common in Asian diets.

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5 hours ago, cjzimmer1 said:

 

  Quote

The findings suggest the virus tends to become firmly established first in the nasal cavity. Then, in some cases, the virus is aspirated into the lungs where it may cause more serious disease, including potentially fatal pneumonia.

“If the nose is the dominant initial site from which lung infections are seeded, then the widespread use of masks to protect the nasal passages, as well as any therapeutic strategies that reduce virus in the nose, such as nasal irrigation or antiviral nasal sprays, could be beneficial,” said study co-senior author Dr. Richard Boucher, the James C. Moeser Eminent Distinguished Professor of medicine and director of the Marsico Lung Institute at the UNC School of Medicine.

I would be very curious if there is a difference between mouth breathers and nose breathers.  I have never for as long as I can remember breathed through my nose without giving it conscience thought first.  I had no idea that most people breathe through their nose.  I remember having surgery once and they put the nose thing with oxygen on me.  As soon as I woke up, I asked to have it removed and the nurse is like "no, you need the extra oxygen".  I told her I'm not breathing through my nose so how does it help"  She was aghast at the idea I was breathing through my mouth but I told her that was normal for me. So she checked my oxygen levels, then removed the nose thing and check them again later and once she was satisfied that my oxygen was fine she finally removed it for good.  But she was as shocked to learn that I never breathe through my nose as I was to learn that people normally did.

I think there’s some yoga stuff you can do to help with this?

im also a mouth breather at night only mostly and it’s linked to increased dental and orthodontic problems as well.

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5 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I think there’s some yoga stuff you can do to help with this?

im also a mouth breather at night only mostly and it’s linked to increased dental and orthodontic problems as well.

 

Yoga...

Breathing exercises ...

Lip tape 😉

 

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