wuhan - coronavirus

[ktgrok]

Reminds me of the time I had a respiratory virus, fever,  and ear infection, my husband had a respiratory infection and fever, and my 18 month old had spiked a fever and was cranky. We went to ER because we were dumb, and the doctor there found an ear infection/snotty nose, knew both parents also had the same, and then was insisting he needed to catheterize the kid to check for a urinary tract infection that might be causing the fever! Um, dude pretty sure it is the same thing the rest of us have - and you just said he has too! (we compromised on a baggie around his boy parts to get a urine sample, after the made threats about DCF if we left without doing that test and bloodwork to look for sepsis!)

[ktgrok]

Still trying to decide if this thing can be spread via oral transmission, and REALLY wishing they were looking into it more! Saying you have no evidence of it being transmitted that way is NOT the same as saying you have evidence it is not transmitted that way! If they are not looking for it, they won't find it. And I can't figure out - if it can be spread via the fecal oral route (a big if, I know), would that mean it could be spread from respiratory secretions on food via oral contact? Why would it need to be be feces, and not snot, on the food?

With regard to possible fecal–oral transmission specifically, it is relevant that cells in the oral cavity, esophagus, and other parts of the gastrointestinal tract express angiotensin converting enzyme 2 (ACE2) receptors. ACE2 has been identified as the host receptor that interacts with the viral spike protein to facilitate entry of SARS-CoV-2 into the host cell

[Pen]

7 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

Still trying to decide if this thing can be spread via oral transmission, and REALLY wishing they were looking into it more! Saying you have no evidence of it being transmitted that way is NOT the same as saying you have evidence it is not transmitted that way! If they are not looking for it, they won't find it. And I can't figure out - if it can be spread via the fecal oral route (a big if, I know), would that mean it could be spread from respiratory secretions on food via oral contact? Why would it need to be be feces, and not snot, on the food?

With regard to possible fecal–oral transmission specifically, it is relevant that cells in the oral cavity, esophagus, and other parts of the gastrointestinal tract express angiotensin converting enzyme 2 (ACE2) receptors. ACE2 has been identified as the host receptor that interacts with the viral spike protein to facilitate entry of SARS-CoV-2 into the host cell

 

I would personally presume it can be spread by droplets on food until proven otherwise

[Pen]

22 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

I know — it seems absolutely bizarre to diagnose someone who has barely been out of the house for weeks with a rare disease that only infects ~350 people/yr in the US, most of whom have recently traveled abroad to areas where it's endemic, while insisting it can't possibly be a disease that currently afflicts millions of Americans and is known for false negatives on swab tests. 

 

Totally bizarre. 

[ktgrok]

8 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

I would personally presume it can be spread by droplets on food until proven otherwise

I think that makes us the only two people presuming that on the planet, lol. It does seem like it would be at least worth testing if th virus can live say, on icecream or in an iced soda/coffee drink/tea/whatever. I mean, that should be fairly easy to test. Then there is the issue of can you GET it that way, but lets start with the first part!

(just read it can survive in water for days at least)

Edited June 26, 2020 by Ktgrok

[vonfirmath]

13 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

I would personally presume it can be spread by droplets on food until proven otherwise

Ever since the virus started being a thing, I've stopped finishing my kids food/letting them "share" my food other than by cutting it off from a part not eaten on and moved over to their plate.

 

[Pen]

24 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

I think that makes us the only two people presuming that on the planet, lol. It does seem like it would be at least worth testing if th virus can live say, on icecream or in an iced soda/coffee drink/tea/whatever. I mean, that should be fairly easy to test. Then there is the issue of can you GET it that way, but lets start with the first part!

(just read it can survive in water for days at least)

 

Studies would be good!

 

But I think quite a few people are reheating take out foods, not getting cold take out, cleaning vegetables and other cold grocery items thoroughly, and not yet eating at restaurants.

 

I guess part of issue would be if it can survive stomach acids well.  (My guess: not easily)

another would be if it attaches to mouth or throat ACE2 receptors, can it get a start that way and move from there to other tissues  (my guess: yes) 

 

if people get sick going to restaurants it seems like it would be hard to know if it was from droplets that got on the food versus ones that got breathed— unless we were to learn something like that one form starts with sore throat most likely while the other starts respiratory most likely... 

[Pen]

Was this posted yet?

https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2020/06/15/science.abc7520.full

neutralizing antibodies

[ktgrok]

15 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

Studies would be good!

 

But I think quite a few people are reheating take out foods, not getting cold take out, cleaning vegetables and other cold grocery items thoroughly, and not yet eating at restaurants.

 

I'm seeing a lot of photos of people with take out ice cream, and getting cold drinks, etc. 

[Pen]

8 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

I'm seeing a lot of photos of people with take out ice cream, and getting cold drinks, etc. 

 

 it’s hard to take pictures of an absence of doing something, people **not** doing that. 

And the people who are getting ice cream to go etc, probably are also exposed via respiratory routes by and large such as waiting for the ice cream to be scooped.   (Probably more exposed via respiratory route while waiting and eating than from the ice cream itself, I would guess.) 

Edited June 26, 2020 by Pen

[ktgrok]

5 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

 it’s hard to take pictures of an absence of doing something, people **not** doing that. 

And the people who are getting ice cream to go etc, probably are also exposed via respiratory routes by and large such as waiting for the ice cream to be scooped.   (Probably more exposed via respiratory route while waiting and eating than from the ice cream itself, I would guess.) 

I was thinking of drive thru places, but yes, in regular settings that would be true. 

[mumto2]

1 hour ago, Ktgrok said:

I think that makes us the only two people presuming that on the planet, lol. It does seem like it would be at least worth testing if th virus can live say, on icecream or in an iced soda/coffee drink/tea/whatever. I mean, that should be fairly easy to test. Then there is the issue of can you GET it that way, but lets start with the first part!

(just read it can survive in water for days at least)

Some of the Jeremiah Ice Cream places are closed due to Covid .......employee’s testing positive.  Maybe the question is soon to be answered.  Just saying....as in probably not relevant and I need to go to bed.  I really don’t want to think about ice cream giving me Covid!

[TracyP]

8 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

Just went back and looked, maybe they didn't culture. "I thought, without a positive culture, there still was no definitive diagnosis. " 

But I'll say that in the current time, Covid seems way more likely than typhoid, for him to catch. https://www.cdc.gov/typhoid-fever/sources.html

Well, I don't agree with the typhoid diagnosis either. I looked more into the antibody test this morning. The IGG test should be accurate 14 days past symptoms which was he was. So I have to look past 3 false negatives and no respiratory symptoms to assume this guy had COVID originally. Is it possible? Sure. But it is too big a leap for me. Again, the whole thing makes far more sense to me if he picked up COVID while in the hospital.

[ktgrok]

59 minutes ago, TracyP said:

Well, I don't agree with the typhoid diagnosis either. I looked more into the antibody test this morning. The IGG test should be accurate 14 days past symptoms which was he was. So I have to look past 3 false negatives and no respiratory symptoms to assume this guy had COVID originally. Is it possible? Sure. But it is too big a leap for me. Again, the whole thing makes far more sense to me if he picked up COVID while in the hospital.

The son started with possible symptoms (fever, runny nose, stomach pain) before they picked up the dad from the hospital though, so if the kid had it, he was exposed before dad went into the hospital. 

[Ausmumof3]

2nd highest international day (>179,000) and highest day for US on worldometer (>40,000)

[Ausmumof3]

30 cases for Melbourne today.  Local areas are being locked down and tested aggressively.  Around 800 international returnees are coming through south Australia over the next few days so most likely some cases will come from that.  Hopefully the quarantine and testing is adequate.

[JennyD]

Re surfaces, I found this interview with an infectious disease specialist very illuminating.  I thought it especially instructive that he himself is very strictly distancing  but is just not worried about catching coronavirus from surfaces.  

(I sent this article to my MIL, who has been microwaving the newspaper.)

 

 

[TracyP]

28 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

The son started with possible symptoms (fever, runny nose, stomach pain) before they picked up the dad from the hospital though, so if the kid had it, he was exposed before dad went into the hospital. 

Or the son (and daughter soon after) had whatever the dad originally had. This would make the daughter's "relapse" (this time with respiratory symptoms) her bout with COVID. 

I think we are going to have to agree to disagree. 😉 At this point we will never know for sure. 

[ktgrok]

4 minutes ago, TracyP said:

Or the son (and daughter soon after) had whatever the dad originally had. This would make the daughter's "relapse" (this time with respiratory symptoms) her bout with COVID. 

I think we are going to have to agree to disagree. 😉 At this point we will never know for sure. 

oh, I'm not disagreeing, I'm wondering aloud, lol. I don't know what I think. 

[Pen]

1 hour ago, TracyP said:

Well, I don't agree with the typhoid diagnosis either. I looked more into the antibody test this morning. The IGG test should be accurate 14 days past symptoms which was he was. So I have to look past 3 false negatives and no respiratory symptoms to assume this guy had COVID originally. Is it possible? Sure. But it is too big a leap for me. Again, the whole thing makes far more sense to me if he picked up COVID while in the hospital.

 

That makes quite a lot of sense if he was sent to a Covid ward, which iirc, he was.  

Though how he got some bizarre illness during a short trip to Home Depot and gas station while using precautions as a person in sciences who knew sterile procedure and was being careful still seems very strange.

It seems like he has to have been exposed to someone who was a carrier of **something**. and enough of a spreader as to expect others who were at the Home Depot and gas station  to be sick too...

or ? Could the wife have picked up CV19 on a prior trip to do groceries etc., brought it home without herself getting it, given it to him...

Then caught it from him and or the kids?

Or

We were just discussing foods as a source...

Maybe original illness **was** CV19, but gotten on some food the husband ate — even on the particular bite he ate and rest family didn’t— not respiratory. Thus no CV19 respiratory symptoms and no positive nasal swab

???

[TracyP]

13 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

oh, I'm not disagreeing, I'm wondering aloud, lol. I don't know what I think. 

Good to know. I love to debate/talk these things through. In person experience tells me that some people also enjoy this and others get offended really quickly.  It is so much harder to tell which is which online!

[Pen]

If the husband ‘s eyes symptoms on same day as trip to Home Depot were symptoms of his illness whatever it was, that’s very soon for CV19 and many other illnesses to show signs ...if the errands were source of illness. 

I think the husband should write up his own description of the events!

[TracyP]

5 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

That makes quite a lot of sense if he was sent to a Covid ward, which iirc, he was.  

Yep, he was.

5 minutes ago, Pen said:

Though how he got some bizarre illness during a short trip to Home Depot and gas station while using precautions as a person in sciences who knew sterile procedure and was being careful still seems very strange.

Yeah, strange no matter what it was. I assume this would have been short exposure by someone who was taking all the right precautions. It seems like he shouldn't have picked up anything.

5 minutes ago, Pen said:

It seems like he has to have been exposed to someone who was a carrier of **something**. and enough of a spreader as to expect others who were at the Home Depot and gas station  to be sick too...

or ? Could the wife have picked up CV19 on a prior trip to do groceries etc., brought it home without herself getting it, given it to him...

Then caught it from him and or the kids?

Or

We were just discussing foods as a source...

So maybe there is a completely different explanation like one of these...

5 minutes ago, Pen said:

Maybe original illness **was** CV19, but gotten on some food the husband ate — even on the particular bite he ate and rest family didn’t— not respiratory. Thus no CV19 respiratory symptoms and no positive nasal swab

???

Would it work like that? If it came in through your digestive tract, would it stay in your digestive tract? That would be interesting.

[Acorn]

Question because no one knows the answer and I'm tired of guessing alone.

Should we have concerns using a portapotty/ pit toilet?

[Pen]

46 minutes ago, TracyP said:

Yep, he was.

Yeah, strange no matter what it was. I assume this would have been short exposure by someone who was taking all the right precautions. It seems like he shouldn't have picked up anything.

I agree.  He should not have picked up anything.

But apparently he was very sick. 

So what happened?

 

46 minutes ago, TracyP said:

So maybe there is a completely different explanation like one of these...

Would it work like that? If it came in through your digestive tract, would it stay in your digestive tract? That would be interesting.

 

It might.

But I would still expect that if it was CV19 with that much illness there should be a positive IgG for SARS2 at the right time lapse for that.  (The ones he got were probably too soon for IgG.) 

I think this should have been much more carefully investigated.  The feces should have been tested for SARS2.  Culturing should have been done for Typhoid.  ...

 

He should have been carefully interviewed. Did he eat/drink anything while out that could have had bacteria contamination (typhoid or anything else), for example, or perhaps rub his itchy eyes? 

 

If the wife related it correctly, it is a really interesting epidemiology situation, and I’m not sure what right explanation is.   

Edited June 26, 2020 by Pen

[freesia]

3 minutes ago, Acorn said:

Question because no one knows the answer and I'm tired of guessing alone.

Should we have concerns using a portapotty/ pit toilet?

I would have concerns. 

[Pen]

9 minutes ago, Acorn said:

Question because no one knows the answer and I'm tired of guessing alone.

Should we have concerns using a portapotty/ pit toilet?

Public portapotty and pit toilet?  Not open to sun and air?

I’d have concerns a little different than , but similar as  for plumbed public toilets.  

Not so much aerosolized from flushing, but surface contamination nonetheless, and probably much less good ways to clean hands as with a sink and running water

[TCB]

31 minutes ago, Acorn said:

Question because no one knows the answer and I'm tired of guessing alone.

Should we have concerns using a portapotty/ pit toilet?

Those are my favorite toilets at the moment lol. No flushing so I think they may be safer.

[EmseB]

4 hours ago, JennyD said:

Re surfaces, I found this interview with an infectious disease specialist very illuminating.  I thought it especially instructive that he himself is very strictly distancing  but is just not worried about catching coronavirus from surfaces.  

(I sent this article to my MIL, who has been microwaving the newspaper.)

 

 

I loved reading his whole interview. Thank you.

[73349]

3 hours ago, Acorn said:

Question because no one knows the answer and I'm tired of guessing alone.

Should we have concerns using a portapotty/ pit toilet?

I would think safer if people added sawdust or the like (as with a composting toilet) after using. The enclosed space is not great.

[kbutton]

4 hours ago, Pen said:

Public portapotty and pit toilet?  Not open to sun and air?

I’d have concerns a little different than , but similar as  for plumbed public toilets.  

Not so much aerosolized from flushing, but surface contamination nonetheless, and probably much less good ways to clean hands as with a sink and running water

There are a wide range of pit/composting toilet setups. Many get air, some get sun, and many provide a sink and running water or sanitizer. It's hard to put them all in the same bucket. 

4 hours ago, TCB said:

Those are my favorite toilets at the moment lol. No flushing so I think they may be safer.

I agree. We need to do some distance driving coming up (a one day drive, safe destination), and I'm hoping we can find some stops with these instead of stops where we have to flush. 

1 hour ago, whitehawk said:

I would think safer if people added sawdust or the like (as with a composting toilet) after using. The enclosed space is not great.

Does the colored fluid in the port-o-lets offer the same functionality? Just curious.

For the smaller portable toilets, I bet a person could leave the door open for a couple of minutes before entering if there aren't lines to use them.

[ktgrok]

5 hours ago, TracyP said:

Good to know. I love to debate/talk these things through. In person experience tells me that some people also enjoy this and others get offended really quickly.  It is so much harder to tell which is which online!

I love debating ideas, as long as it is about ideas, facts, thoughts, etc and not about motivations or personal attacks. And as long as both parties are being logical - or close to it 🙂

4 hours ago, Acorn said:

Question because no one knows the answer and I'm tired of guessing alone.

Should we have concerns using a portapotty/ pit toilet?

I would have concerns about any toilet at this point, given the potential for fecal oral route - having something that can be spread via feces, but also inhaled seems...concerning. I do NOT know why this is not being studied more? Or is it?

4 hours ago, Pen said:

or perhaps rub his itchy eyes? 

 

 

Oh!!!! I bet that's it! I bet the initial eye redness was regular allergies, but because they were itchy, he rubbed them without thinking at the gas station or at homedepot!!!!!  So that first night with red eyes was just the allergies, and then OTHER symptoms that kicked in later were Covid. Nasal swabs are 30% false negative, and he didn't have respiratory symptoms really anyway, so I bet there are MORE false negatives then. Regarding the antibody test, remember that one big brand sent out faulty instructions at first - saying you could let the sample sit for a while in some medium or other, before testing, and then had to reissue new instructions saying you can't do that, because they were hugely inaccurate? But after staff are trained on doing them one way, I doubt everyone paid attention and switched to the new way right away. Maybe he had one of those?

[Acorn]

If I return to work, it will involve rented portapotties. I can wipe down handle and seat, if provided wipes. I just don’t know about the risk of infection from matter already inside the seat. 
 

likewise, I’d love to hike more and camp locally, but the proximity of other people, watershed characteristics, etc make this a not great area for cat holes.

[ktgrok]

4 minutes ago, Acorn said:

If I return to work, it will involve rented portapotties. I can wipe down handle and seat, if provided wipes. I just don’t know about the risk of infection from matter already inside the seat. 
 

likewise, I’d love to hike more and camp locally, but the proximity of other people, watershed characteristics, etc make this a not great area for cat holes.

Public restrooms are the number one reason we are not going anywhere this summer. I live in a hours or so drive of lots of outdoor fun spots but I don't trust the bathrooms. 

[Pen]

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/false-negatives-covid19-tests-symptoms-assume-you-have-illness

 

[vonfirmath]

5 minutes ago, Pen said:

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/false-negatives-covid19-tests-symptoms-assume-you-have-illness

 

Pretty much how our company is handling. Even employees that are negative, with symptoms, are asked to isolate under CDC guidelines.

 

(But yes when I heard how the test is done I was expecting there were going to be issues getting the proper sample)

Edited June 26, 2020 by vonfirmath

[ktgrok]

You know that feeling, when your kid does something stupid, and you TOLD them what would happen if they did it, and they do it anyway, and you want to scream, "If you all would just LISTEN TO ME!!"? Yeah, that's how I fell toward my state right now. 

[Pen]

4 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

You know that feeling, when your kid does something stupid, and you TOLD them what would happen if they did it, and they do it anyway, and you want to scream, "If you all would just LISTEN TO ME!!"? Yeah, that's how I fell toward my state right now. 

 

Yup.

remember this stage?

 

[Spryte]

On the antibody testing, I have a question. Wouldn’t the husband have shown up negative for antibodies while in the hospital no matter what?  I thought he was tested in hospital, before discharge? So still symptomatic.

My understanding is that antibody testing works best 14 days after symptoms are gone.  Am I backwards?  Is it 14 days after onset?

Anecdotally, the homeschool family we know who are all ill (loved their care package, BTW, and thanks for all the ideas on that!) have been very sick since April 1.  Long haulers, all.  Their antibody tests in May were still negative.  Active infection tests were positive.  So I really thought I had this right.  And the mom was told the same by her doc.  

[Pen]

Just now, Spryte said:

On the antibody testing, I have a question. Wouldn’t the husband have shown up negative for antibodies while in the hospital no matter what?  I thought he was tested in hospital, before discharge? So still symptomatic.

My understanding is that antibody testing works best 14 days after symptoms are gone.  Am I backwards?  Is it 14 days after onset?

Anecdotally, the homeschool family we know who are all ill (loved their care package, BTW, and thanks for all the ideas on that!) have been very sick since April 1.  Long haulers, all.  Their antibody tests in May were still negative.  Active infection tests were positive.  So I really thought I had this right.  And the mom was told the same by her doc.  

 

That’s my understanding—certainly too early for IgG antibodies and they did not test for IgM which maybe could have been positive

[Spryte]

13 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

That’s my understanding—certainly too early for IgG antibodies and they did not test for IgM which maybe could have been positive

Thanks.  I started questioning myself and needed some clarification.

[ktgrok]

Found this about the first SARS (not Covid-19)

The pH of gastric secretions of the stomach ranges from 1.0 to 3.5, while the small and large intestines range from pH 7.5 to 8.0 (^{Guyton and Hall, 1997}). Taken together, these data suggest that ingestion of SARS-CoV would probably result in inactivation of most virions by stomach acid. However, acidic conditions of the stomach may be partially neutralized by a particularly large meal or antacid ingestion, and under these conditions the virus might have a chance to move through the stomach into the slightly basic conditions of the intestines. ^{Leung et al. (2003)} have shown enteric involvement of the SARS virus, as evidenced by the presence of active viral replication in intestinal biopsy specimens from five patients, and the isolation of SARS-CoV RNA in stool specimens up to 10 weeks after onset of symptoms. These data, coupled with the previously mentioned stability of the virus to moderate pH conditions, suggest that the SARS virus may survive ingestion and a fecal/oral route of infection may be possible.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7112912/

[TracyP]

50 minutes ago, Spryte said:

On the antibody testing, I have a question. Wouldn’t the husband have shown up negative for antibodies while in the hospital no matter what?  I thought he was tested in hospital, before discharge? So still symptomatic.

My understanding is that antibody testing works best 14 days after symptoms are gone.  Am I backwards?  Is it 14 days after onset?

Anecdotally, the homeschool family we know who are all ill (loved their care package, BTW, and thanks for all the ideas on that!) have been very sick since April 1.  Long haulers, all.  Their antibody tests in May were still negative.  Active infection tests were positive.  So I really thought I had this right.  And the mom was told the same by her doc.  

Everything I read says 14 days after onset of symptoms. I'll link one page, but I went to several and they all agreed. IgG antibodies appear as early as 7-10 day from symptom onset and most definitely by 14 days. The husband was 18 days out from his first symptoms. (The antibody tests are not always accurate and it appears from other studies that some people do not produce antibodies.)

https://www.nationaljewish.org/patients-visitors/patient-info/important-updates/coronavirus-information-and-resources/patient-care/covid-19-testing-antibody-diagnostic/the-difference-between-tests-for-covid-19

[Pen]

34 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

Found this about the first SARS (not Covid-19)

The pH of gastric secretions of the stomach ranges from 1.0 to 3.5, while the small and large intestines range from pH 7.5 to 8.0 (^{Guyton and Hall, 1997}). Taken together, these data suggest that ingestion of SARS-CoV would probably result in inactivation of most virions by stomach acid. However, acidic conditions of the stomach may be partially neutralized by a particularly large meal or antacid ingestion, and under these conditions the virus might have a chance to move through the stomach into the slightly basic conditions of the intestines. ^{Leung et al. (2003)} have shown enteric involvement of the SARS virus, as evidenced by the presence of active viral replication in intestinal biopsy specimens from five patients, and the isolation of SARS-CoV RNA in stool specimens up to 10 weeks after onset of symptoms. These data, coupled with the previously mentioned stability of the virus to moderate pH conditions, suggest that the SARS virus may survive ingestion and a fecal/oral route of infection may be possible.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7112912/

 

Yes.

And apparently acids (such as for cleaners) not found to be very useful against SARS2 .  

So enough of it in right (wrong?) conditions and it seems ingestion could certainly be a problem. 

 

Note to self: avoid antacids and big meals?

[Pen]

16 minutes ago, TracyP said:

Everything I read says 14 days after onset of symptoms. I'll link one page, but I went to several and they all agreed. IgG antibodies appear as early as 7-10 day from symptom onset and most definitely by 14 days. The husband was 18 days out from his first symptoms. (The antibody tests are not always accurate and it appears from other studies that some people do not produce antibodies.)

https://www.nationaljewish.org/patients-visitors/patient-info/important-updates/coronavirus-information-and-resources/patient-care/covid-19-testing-antibody-diagnostic/the-difference-between-tests-for-covid-19

 

Ok I stand corrected. He could have tested positive already.  At least if wife is right that Home Depot etc trip on 1st was  infection source

timeline seemed to be

 

May 4 flu-like symptoms (home isolated)

May 8 “.       “ felt/appeared to be resolved

May 12? Rejoined family

May 18 felt very sick and looked blue, entered hospital  put on Covid ward 

May 22 released from hospital

...

 

[Pen]

More on HCQ—

likely to be taken down quickly

 

https://youtu.be/vgQqT2xbXlo

 

https://youtu.be/vgQqT2xbXlo

[ktgrok]

1 hour ago, Pen said:

 

Yes.

And apparently acids (such as for cleaners) not found to be very useful against SARS2 .  

So enough of it in right (wrong?) conditions and it seems ingestion could certainly be a problem. 

 

Note to self: avoid antacids and big meals?

Yeah, as someone taking a PPI daily, this is a big concern for me. And LOTS of people take them. And something like ice cream is already a ph of 7, so definitely could help neutralize the acidity of stomach acid. At ph of 4, it was not hurt at all I think I read. 

Edited June 26, 2020 by Ktgrok

[Matryoshka]

38 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

Yeah, as someone taking a PPI daily, this is a big concern for me. And LOTS of people take them. And something like ice cream is already a ph of 7, so definitely could help neutralize the acidity of stomach acid. At ph of 4, it was not hurt at all I think I read. 

I will not eat any take-out that cannot be zapped in the micro.  And I'm growing my own lettuce...  the local take-out ice cream place here was open through the worst of it so far though (and it was bad here) and I haven't heard of any problems from it.  But I just don't need take-out ice cream that badly, myself...

[Pen]

CV19 - What Brain autopsies show:

 

https://youtu.be/NQ0FaaJ73xc

 

 

 

[ktgrok]

44 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

I will not eat any take-out that cannot be zapped in the micro.  And I'm growing my own lettuce...  the local take-out ice cream place here was open through the worst of it so far though (and it was bad here) and I haven't heard of any problems from it.  But I just don't need take-out ice cream that badly, myself...

Yeah we have 57,000 cases of unknown community spread so when they say they have not tracked any to food I’m not reassured.