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2 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Worldometer is showing 37,000 new cases for the US today.  BNO haven’t updated for a bit and I haven’t been following worldometer to know their reporting times etc but that seems like a bigger jump than previous days?  I thought it was going up by around 20,000 per days.

Maybe there was a backlog of tests somewhere? 

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DS got home 3 hours ago!  ❤️❤️

Update-  my youngest is not only short of breath, coughing, dizzy, nausaues, and with headache-  she is also confused.  I called our doctor and talked with him and she is going to be going to the ER.

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8 minutes ago, square_25 said:

OK, I've looked into Vitamin D for flu. Conclusion? Indeterminate. Like many, many, many such interventions, the effect isn't strong enough for consistent results. So some studies find an effect and others don't. 

I tend to distrust medical literature, to be honest, unless the effect is big enough to be seen with the naked eye. I'm dubious of 95% confidence intervals, lol. 

This is all to say that it's possible that Vitamin D is having an effect, and possible that it's not. As far as I can tell, there isn't much correlation between the sunniness of a country and how hard it was hit. Italy and Spain are some of the hardest-hit countries in Europe, and they aren't exactly known for being grim, cloudy places. The Scandinavian countries have much more of a problem with sun, and they've been relatively spared. 

From what I'm seeing, the density of a country is more predictive of outcomes than anything else so far. I'm willing to be convinced, of course, but I'm not seeing it. 

Italy while sunny has low vitamin D levels in its population.  I'm not sure about Spain's D levels.  

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6 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

If you ignore the number of cases due to testing discrepancies, you could still see the deaths and hospitalization rate compare to population is much lower here.

 

The problem is that even if you believe the Santa Clara study, not many people at all have antibodies :-(. So it's all virgin territory for the virus to spread, if it does start spreading rapidly. 

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2 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I suspect the weather thing is somewhat important.  There’s lots of talk from the leaders about our amazing Public Health Service and lower rates but to be honest there’s been a few mistakes and we’ve just been lucky so far.  I suspect weather plays a role in that.  

@Pen@ElizabethB

If you look at the foreign workers in construction in Singapore, they are mostly from Bangladesh. The infected numbers are high now that testing has rapidly expanded on workers dormitories but their fatality rate has been thankfully low. Bangladesh construction workers in Singapore are about as dark skin as African Americans (not intending to offend anyone).

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Here are D levels, higher in Norway than Italy!  High in Portugal but low in Spain in Italy.  Did Portugal fare well?  You can also get D from fish and cod liver oil, maybe the Nordic countries are getting good D from fish?

 An older European population-based study in older persons, the Seneca study, showed a mean serum 25(OH)D of 26 nmol/L in Spain, 39 nmol/L in Portugal, 28 nmol/L in Italy and 25 nmol/L in Greece while it was around 45 nmol/L in the Nordic countries (31).

https://eje.bioscientifica.com/view/journals/eje/180/4/EJE-18-0736.xml

 

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5 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Worldometer is showing 37,000 new cases for the US today.  BNO haven’t updated for a bit and I haven’t been following worldometer to know their reporting times etc but that seems like a bigger jump than previous days?  I thought it was going up by around 20,000 per days.

Maybe more states are finally able to ramp up testing?

In my state, positive test numbers reported keeps increasing but the number of new hospitalizations has been decreasing, suggesting that actual infections are likely decreasing but more mild cases are being documented because of increased testing.

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5 minutes ago, square_25 said:

 

We were in SF in early January, as we usually are, but I can't say I remember what the weather was like then. Also, I've just discovered that "early January" feels like half a lifetime ago :-/. Like someone else did it.  

I am about an hour south of SF. SF 9th street area was warm for sure in February/March when we went there to shop around noon. Daly City on the other hand was still chilly. 

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3 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

@Pen@ElizabethB

If you look at the foreign workers in construction in Singapore, they are mostly from Bangladesh. The infected numbers are high now that testing has rapidly expanded on workers dormitories but their fatality rate has been thankfully low. Bangladesh construction workers in Singapore are about as dark skin as African Americans (not intending to offend anyone).

So would that be indicative of a big outbreak in Bangladesh?  Or just one or two people coming in and then it spreading due to the dorms.  I guess if they are testing everyone it might be presenting a more realistic fatality rate.  Construction workers here tend to be somewhat fitter than the average population.  Not everyone obviously but overall because they are doing physical labour etc. 

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3 minutes ago, ElizabethB said:

Here are D levels, higher in Norway than Italy!  High in Portugal but low in Spain in Italy.  Did Portugal fare well?  You can also get D from fish and cod liver oil, maybe the Nordic countries are getting good D from fish?

 An older European population-based study in older persons, the Seneca study, showed a mean serum 25(OH)D of 26 nmol/L in Spain, 39 nmol/L in Portugal, 28 nmol/L in Italy and 25 nmol/L in Greece while it was around 45 nmol/L in the Nordic countries (31).

https://eje.bioscientifica.com/view/journals/eje/180/4/EJE-18-0736.xml

 

Huh, interesting. Was this true for younger people as well? 

I was having a lot of trouble reading that page, lol -- my browser keeps giving up on it. So many tables... 

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6 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

@Pen@ElizabethB

If you look at the foreign workers in construction in Singapore, they are mostly from Bangladesh. The infected numbers are high now that testing has rapidly expanded on workers dormitories but their fatality rate has been thankfully low. Bangladesh construction workers in Singapore are about as dark skin as African Americans (not intending to offend anyone).

 

The dormitory living is very apt to lead to rapid spread.  

But I expect they are relatively young—not like elders in close quarters nursing homes

And if latitude and Vitamin D is relevant Singapore is in a great area for that!

 

plus advanced health care

 

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2 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

So would that be indicative of a big outbreak in Bangladesh?  Or just one or two people coming in and then it spreading due to the dorms.  I guess if they are testing everyone it might be presenting a more realistic fatality rate.  Construction workers here tend to be somewhat fitter than the average population.  Not everyone obviously but overall because they are doing physical labour etc. 

Majority of the workers has been in Singapore for years. They probably were infected locally and dormitory conditions made spreading the infection easier. They aim to eventually test everyone in the dormitories but going for the dormitories with high number of positive cases first. 

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8 minutes ago, square_25 said:

Maybe there was a backlog of tests somewhere? 

Yes probably likely.  I think California had cleared its bottleneck?  Maybe that’s why there’s a seeming spike.

It looks like you have close to 1,000,000 and have run around 5,000,000 tests.  Meaning slightly less than 1 in 5 are positive. 

 

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6 minutes ago, ElizabethB said:

Here are D levels, higher in Norway than Italy!  High in Portugal but low in Spain in Italy.  Did Portugal fare well?  You can also get D from fish and cod liver oil, maybe the Nordic countries are getting good D from fish?

 An older European population-based study in older persons, the Seneca study, showed a mean serum 25(OH)D of 26 nmol/L in Spain, 39 nmol/L in Portugal, 28 nmol/L in Italy and 25 nmol/L in Greece while it was around 45 nmol/L in the Nordic countries (31).

https://eje.bioscientifica.com/view/journals/eje/180/4/EJE-18-0736.xml

 

Want to make a scatter plot of mean serum Vitamin D versus deaths/million? 😛 We can see if there's a relationship... 

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Just now, square_25 said:

Huh, interesting. Was this true for younger people as well? 

I was having a lot of trouble reading that page, lol -- my browser keeps giving up on it. So many tables... 

I have no idea about younger people's D levels, older people are more impacted by Coronavirus anyway, the article is kind of annoying with all the tables.

I just looked up Portugal, much lower death rate than Spain, similar location, geography.  Politico has a variety of guesses, my educated guess is Vitamin D!

https://eje.bioscientifica.com/view/journals/eje/180/4/EJE-18-0736.xml

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1 minute ago, Arcadia said:

Majority of the workers has been in Singapore for years. They probably were infected locally and dormitory conditions made spreading the infection easier. They aim to eventually test everyone in the dormitories but going for the dormitories with high number of positive cases first. 

Oh I see so not a FIFO situation like I was imagining.

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1 minute ago, square_25 said:

Want to make a scatter plot of mean serum Vitamin D versus deaths/million? 😛 We can see if there's a relationship... 

Someone already did a plot with latitude that shows why D could help.  I've actually been looking for the link, it's embedded in a tweet I repost sometimes.  There is a huge correlation.  The D levels could be a good one, though.  I can't find enough prison data to graph that yet, I could do a rough plot of D vs. Death in the interim.

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1 minute ago, ElizabethB said:

I have no idea about younger people's D levels, older people are more impacted by Coronavirus anyway, the article is kind of annoying with all the tables.

I just looked up Portugal, much lower death rate than Spain, similar location, geography.  Politico has a variety of guesses, my educated guess is Vitamin D!

https://eje.bioscientifica.com/view/journals/eje/180/4/EJE-18-0736.xml

It also locked down earlier compared to its first case, though. 

We need the scatterplot ;-). 

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2 minutes ago, StellaM said:

 

Me too. 

She has to stay off work till she gets tested and gets the results back, so hopefully we will know one way or the other soon. 

Hopefully it doesn’t take long.  They are texting negative results often on the same day here.  

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11 hours ago, ElizabethB said:

New vitamin D study!

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3571484#.XqNy-JjBiB0.twitter

Mean serum 25(OH)D level was 23.8 ng/ml. Serum 25(OH)D level of cases with mild outcome was 31.2 ng/ml, 27.4 ng/ml for ordinary, 21.2 ng/ml for severe, and 17.1 ng/ml for critical. Serum 25(OH)D levels were statistically significant among clinical outcomes (p<0.001). A total of 55 (25.9%) cases had normal Vitamin D status, majority of which (85.5%) were identified mild. A total of 80 (37.7%) cases had insufficient Vitamin D status, majority of which (43.8%) were ordinary. Cases identified as Vitamin D-deficient were 77 (36.3%), majority of which were severe (40.3%). Vitamin D status is significantly associated with clinical outcomes (p<0.001). 

 

Thanks!

  I’m adding this graph again.  Not really for you, just taking your post as a jumping off point to note: At 4,000 IU  per day (a dose many people are afraid to take), it can take over 18 months of consistent daily taking it to reach an excellent blood level. 

Note that at 1,000 IU day, a dose that many people would think of as taking “a lot” of Vitamin D, it is actually probably inadequate from an ng/ml POV.    (Which May affect a lot of studies that find vitamin D supplementation unhelpful.) 

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Response with 400,000 IU loading dose @ is.gd/7DayVitD
Infant-Child 

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7 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

Thanks!

  I’m adding this graph again.  Not really for you, just taking your post as a jumping off point to note: At 4000IU per day (a dose many people are afraid to take), it can take over 18 months of consistent daily taking it to reach an excellent blood level. 

Note that at 1000IU day, a dose that many people would think of as taking “a lot” of Vitamin D, it is actually probably inadequate from an ng/ml POV.    (Which May affect a lot of studies that find vitamin D supplementation unhelpful.) 

  •  

Response with 400,000 IU loading dose @ is.gd/7DayVitD
Infant-Child 

 

Hmmmm. Interesting. 

 

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17 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

Thanks!

  I’m adding this graph again.  Not really for you, just taking your post as a jumping off point to note: At 4000IU per day (a dose many people are afraid to take), it can take over 18 months of consistent daily taking it to reach an excellent blood level. 

Note that at 1000IU day, a dose that many people would think of as taking “a lot” of Vitamin D, it is actually probably inadequate from an ng/ml POV.    (Which May affect a lot of studies that find vitamin D supplementation unhelpful.) 

  •  

Response with 400,000 IU loading dose @ is.gd/7DayVitD
Infant-Child 

Am I reading this wrong?  I don’t understand your comment about 10000 IU/day as insufficient.  I live in a state without a lot of sunshine all winter and I am not really into sitting out in the sun so my guess is I am low in vitamin d.  Do you know if there is a way to test vitamin d at home? Oh, and when is the best time to take vitamin d?

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So, the question with Vitamin D studies or observational studies in general is always whether something you're measuring is correlated with other risk factors. Is that true of Vitamin D, do you know? 

When I look at the death rate per capita, it looks a lot like the US graph, in the sense that it looks "connected" -- the places with lots of deaths are simply next to each other. 

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/total-covid-deaths-per-million

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3 hours ago, Mom2mthj said:

Am I reading this wrong?  I don’t understand your comment about 10000 IU/day as insufficient.

 

******UPDATE CORRECTION— I had written 1000IU and didn’t see the extra 0 in your question above.   My comments below relate to 1000 IU (one thousand IU), not ten thousand (10,000) IU .  *******   

Well, it is plenty sufficient not to have rickets, which some time ago was all that was understood.  

It isn’t enough (without sun or some other factors to give someone a high level) to be in the ranges usually (in my reading) found to help immunity, mood, etc.  — various other things D has been found help with beyond the severe bone etc problems of rickets.  

60ng/ml is recommended by Dr von Helden in the video here (which even though the German is a bit difficult, I highly recommend!) 

https://www.vitamindservice.de/coronavirus-e

 

Quote

 I live in a state without a lot of sunshine all winter and I am not really into sitting out in the sun so my guess is I am low in vitamin d.  Do you know if there is a way to test vitamin d at home? Oh, and when is the best time to take vitamin d?

 

I don’t know of any way to accurately test D levels from home (or even inaccurately ). 

Lab Corp IME is a good lab to test them (aside from current CV19 issues) and a test through Lab Corp can be bought via Life Extension if a Doctor isn’t available to go to ...   but I am personally not inclined to do any extra medical stuff in current circumstances.

Personally I usually take my vitamin D3 in the morning or at least usually earlier than later and separate from my vitamin K1 and K2.    But I don’t think the daily time is critical.  My son switched to a weekly dosing system, which is also possible.

http://Vitamindwiki.com can be a very useful source for things related to Vitamin D as is the German Vitamin D service site where the video is - posted above 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Reuters

In a stunning reversal, the Navy's top leaders have recommended that fired Navy captain Brett Crozier be reinstated reut.rs/2S2HGYL

@Sneezyone

 

This is a well-deserved reversal/change. It remains to be seen what the impact will be on his career. If we get a new admin in November, he'll come out like a hero. If not, he may still be quietly pushed out once the spotlight fades. Given what is also known (FTR, publicly) about other ships, it would not surprise me to see the 'quarantine' of all personnel prior to deployments with, as I mentioned before, no one on without quarantine and/or testing while underway. This has ALWAYS been the sensible course and where this was headed to preserve force projection capabilities.

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42 minutes ago, square_25 said:

So, the question with Vitamin D studies or observational studies in general is always whether something you're measuring is correlated with other risk factors. Is that true of Vitamin D, do you know? 

 

There have been enough tests done that I feel convinced it is not merely correlated, but is actually beneficial.

 

That said, yes, older people in nursing homes tend to be quite low in Vitamin D.  

People with darker skin tend to be low D status when at non equatorial latitudes and when not getting good skin sun exposure even if at equatorial latitudes.

People with various health issues do tend to be low in vitamin D.

 

... but now, ask this again, from another view point, is low vitamin D just an accidental correlate with various conditions like diabetes? Or might it be that having higher D status decreases diabetes risk?

 

 

 

42 minutes ago, square_25 said:

When I look at the death rate per capita, it looks a lot like the US graph, in the sense that it looks "connected" -- the places with lots of deaths are simply next to each other. 

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/total-covid-deaths-per-million

 

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58 minutes ago, Mom2mthj said:

Am I reading this wrong?  I don’t understand your comment about 10000 IU/day as insufficient.  I live in a state without a lot of sunshine all winter and I am not really into sitting out in the sun so my guess is I am low in vitamin d.  Do you know if there is a way to test vitamin d at home? Oh, and when is the best time to take vitamin d?

Not sure if you mistyped the number in your post or misread Pen's post, but you've got an extra zero in there. She said that 1,000 IU/day was inadequate, not 10,000 IU. Most D3 supplements are sold in doses of 1000 IU or 5000 IU. I have very low D levels for genetic reasons, so I need to supplement, but very few doctors understand what the optimal level should be (as opposed to minimum level needed to prevent rickets). I've tested as low as 12 (which is really bad) and had a doctor tell me I was "a little low" and I should consider taking 400 IU daily — which is way too low to have any real impact. I take around 25,000 IU per week.

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4 minutes ago, Pen said:

... but now, ask this again, from another view point, is low vitamin D just an accidental correlate with various conditions like diabetes? Or might it be that having higher D status decreases diabetes risk?

That's where you can't do with an observational study and need to do randomized trials. Otherwise, there's simply no way to tell which way the causation goes. 

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23 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

Well, it is plenty sufficient not to have rickets, which some time ago was all that was understood.  

It isn’t enough (without sun or some other factors to give someone a high level) to be in the ranges usually (in my reading) found to help immunity, mood, etc.  — various other things D has been found help with beyond the severe bone etc problems of rickets.  

60ng/ml is recommended by Dr von Helden in the video here (which even though the German is a bit difficult, I highly recommend!) 

https://www.vitamindservice.de/coronavirus-e

 

 

I don’t know of any way to accurately test D levels from home (or even inaccurately ). 

Lab Corp IME is a good lab to test them (aside from current CV19 issues) and a test through Lab Corp can be bought via Life Extension if a Doctor isn’t available to go to ...   but I am personally not inclined to do any extra medical stuff in current circumstances.

Personally I usually take my vitamin D3 in the morning or at least usually earlier than later and separate from my vitamin K1 and K2.    But I don’t think the daily time is critical.  My son switched to a weekly dosing system, which is also possible.

http://Vitamindwiki.com can be a very useful source for things related to Vitamin D as is the German Vitamin D service site where the video is - posted above 

 

 

Why do you take it separate from your K? I thought they worked together. One of my K2's has 5000 IU of D with it. 

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1 minute ago, square_25 said:

That's where you can't do with an observational study and need to do randomized trials. Otherwise, there's simply no way to tell which way the causation goes. 

 

I have seen a number of studies. I don’t know if you can be convinced, but I think from what I know of you so far that if you do your own research, and whichever way you find it I think you will feel more satisfied than if I try to convince you of anything. 😊

 

447 articles (most  pro Vitamin D some against) related to Vitamin D and diabetes.  https://vitamindwiki.com/Diabetes

many more for lung and cardiovascular issues.... 

(I expect if you do a bunch of reading you may join me and @ElizabethB as a D proponent, but I may be wrong, and that’s okay too.) 

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No strong correlation between average vitamin D levels and Covid deaths.  There were many countries where it was hard to find vitamin D levels.  It does seem like a few of the very low level countries fared the worst.

image.thumb.png.09c39f06c4c83b5cb3da3a32bea0bbf0.png

image.png.0374fd97d68586b38548af57a22ec2bf.png

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39 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

Well, it is plenty sufficient not to have rickets, which some time ago was all that was understood.  

It isn’t enough (without sun or some other factors to give someone a high level) to be in the ranges usually (in my reading) found to help immunity, mood, etc.  — various other things D has been found help with beyond the severe bone etc problems of rickets.  

60ng/ml is recommended by Dr von Helden in the video here (which even though the German is a bit difficult, I highly recommend!) 

https://www.vitamindservice.de/coronavirus-e

 

 

I don’t know of any way to accurately test D levels from home (or even inaccurately ). 

Lab Corp IME is a good lab to test them (aside from current CV19 issues) and a test through Lab Corp can be bought via Life Extension if a Doctor isn’t available to go to ...   but I am personally not inclined to do any extra medical stuff in current circumstances.

Personally I usually take my vitamin D3 in the morning or at least usually earlier than later and separate from my vitamin K1 and K2.    But I don’t think the daily time is critical.  My son switched to a weekly dosing system, which is also possible.

http://Vitamindwiki.com can be a very useful source for things related to Vitamin D as is the German Vitamin D service site where the video is - posted above 

Why do you take the K separate from the D?

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36 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

There have been enough tests done that I feel convinced it is not merely correlated, but is actually beneficial.

 

That said, yes, older people in nursing homes tend to be quite low in Vitamin D.  

People with darker skin tend to be low D status when at non equatorial latitudes and when not getting good skin sun exposure even if at equatorial latitudes.

People with various health issues do tend to be low in vitamin D.

 

... but now, ask this again, from another view point, is low vitamin D just an accidental correlate with various conditions like diabetes? Or might it be that having higher D status decreases diabetes risk?

 

 

 

 

So I have been wanting to jump in with my thoughts on this, as it has been eating my brain for 2 days, but I don't usually have time to both read here and post. So here goes...

When you first started talking about Vitamin D and Covid, I was mostly interested from a preventative standpoint, as my younger son is Type-1 diabetic, and I was quite desperate for anything that might help him ward off the virus. I was especially interested in how (in the influenza study) it seemed to keep the virus from getting into the cells in the first place. One of my primary concerns with my son is that if he gets a high fever, like most diabetics, his blood sugar gets very high very quickly. The idea of him having a fever for days and days is quite frightening. But you also talked about Vitamin D potentially helping to balance the immune system, thus potentially helping to keep the cytokine storm at bay. And as Type-1 is an autoimmune disease, this also sounded promising. I started all of us on Vitamin D3 supplements that day. I am considering raising the amount we are taking based on what you have posted above.

But when I read an article the other night talking about many Covid patients who have died having mysterious severe blood clots, something clicked in my brain. And I went and looked it up, and sure enough, Vitamin D deficiency is a leading cause of blood clots....and high blood pressure...and heart disease.  And as you said, obese people often have low levels due to fat absorption issues. And people with darker skin have trouble making D. And older people have absorption issues and don't tend to go outside.  And children tend to have good levels due to the fact that they do go outside.

There is also a connection with diabetes, at least with Type-1! I wish I could find it, and I will look, but I read this like 30-page study a couple of weeks ago about how they have looked into the connection with autoimmune diseases in general, and that there was a major correlation with Type-1. In fact, there are researchers who now believe that Vitamin D deficiency might also be a major cause of Type-1 diabetes, like a direct cause. They are studying that more with the hopes of keeping children from developing it in the first place. The study did say that there was evidence that Type-2 might also be connected.

And people with Type-2 tend to have at least one other Covid risk factor, like high blood pressure or heart disease, so there might be a connection there either way. 

I will try to find some of the studies that I found, especially the diabetes one, because my brain is telling me, this might be the key. Maybe the people who are getting severely ill from this horrible virus are Vitamin D deficient, and the level of D in any given person might be the (or at least one) determining factor in the degree of illness that develops.

Edited by caayenne
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@square_25 Here is a basic article that summarizes some of the ways that Vit D is correlated with many factors that are associated with higher risk for CV19 (obesity, diabetes, CVD, etc.):
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6513299/

You can use that as a jumping off point to follow rabbit trails in various directions. I've done a lot of research on Vit D after discovering that I had a genetic predisposition to Vit D insufficiency, and unfortunately DS has inherited the same issue (we discovered his level was in single digits when he had Lyme disease ☹️ ). Low D is also strongly correlated with anxiety and depression, and I can definitely feel the difference when I'm not taking it. From everything I've read,  it makes perfect sense to me that there would be a strong correlation between low D and severity of CV19, and I am making sure that DS and I are are keeping our levels up.

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24 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

I have seen a number of studies. I don’t know if you can be convinced, but I think from what I know of you so far that if you do your own research, and whichever way you find it I think you will feel more satisfied than if I try to convince you of anything. 😊

 

447 articles (most  pro Vitamin D some against) related to Vitamin D and diabetes.  https://vitamindwiki.com/Diabetes

many more for lung and cardiovascular issues.... 

(I expect if you do a bunch of reading you may join me and @ElizabethB as a D proponent, but I may be wrong, and that’s okay too.) 

I see you have read many studies on this. 😊 So at least you won't think I'm crazy! 😂

And for the record, I think you and @ElizabethB are on to something!

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2 hours ago, sbgrace said:

Why do you take it separate from your K? I thought they worked together. One of my K2's has 5000 IU of D with it. 

 

And @Matryoshka

There’s a very complicated K1, K2, A, and E interplay.

After a lot of personal research which I cannot recall all the details of now, I decided to take my D3 at a time separate from my K1/K2 and A dose when possible/convenient. It’s not a hill for me to die on if I don’t manage that. And it’s better imo to take both at same time than to miss out components of ADEK entirely . 

 (I think it might have been that K1 absorption was limited with D, but don’t recall for certain).    K2 is very, very important along with D3 for making sure that calcium ends up in bones and teeth where it belongs and not forming calcium deposits in soft tissues.  But it did not seem to be needed at literally the same moment as they are both fat soluble and don’t quickly get excreted. 

Vitamin K2 And The Calcium Paradox: How a Little-Known Vitamin Could Save Your Life https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00D5TSMAS/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_5Z5OEbPKW1103

I read a very good book on vitamin K but can’t recall if it is the one above or not.  If so it had suggestions for how to balance the fat soluble ADEK group of vitamins. 

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24 minutes ago, ElizabethB said:

No strong correlation between average vitamin D levels and Covid deaths.  There were many countries where it was hard to find vitamin D levels.  It does seem like a few of the very low level countries fared the worst.

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Or maybe there is?   Most places with levels above 60 have death rate per 1M in one or two digits? 

France on the chart is confusing btw — in  two spots 43 and 60.

Clearly it is not the only factor, and not going to be a magic bullet as Sweden shows, but it may contribute.

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1 minute ago, Pen said:

 

Or maybe there is?   Most places with levels above 60 have death rate per thousand in one or two digits? 

France on the chart is confusing btw — in  two spots 43 and 60.

Clearly it is not the only factor, and not going to be a magic bullet as Sweden shows, but it may contribute.

Yes, I just posted a quick rush of my data, and I was getting things from a variety of sources, I must have ended up with 2 France data points somehow.  I would have cleaned it up and double checked it if I planned on publishing an article or spreading it widely.  Different things online had different vitamin D level averages depending on the study and the year.  The US data was very hard to find, strangely enough.  A ton of articles about what percentage of people were deficient but very few with average D levels.  Even with increased awareness of the importance of D, with more people inside and more people using sunscreen, US vitamin D levels have dropped lately, especially among teens.

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5 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

Or maybe there is?   Most places with levels above 60 have death rate per thousand in one or two digits? 

France on the chart is confusing btw — in  two spots 43 and 60.

Clearly it is not the only factor, and not going to be a magic bullet as Sweden shows, but it may contribute.

Sweden is also not on lockdown compared to the rest of Europe.

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33 minutes ago, caayenne said:

So I have been wanting to jump in with my thoughts on this, as it has been eating my brain for 2 days, but I don't usually have time to both read here and post. So here goes...

When you first started talking about Vitamin D and Covid, I was mostly interested from a preventative standpoint, as my younger son is Type-1 diabetic, and I was quite desperate for anything that might help him ward off the virus. I was especially interested in how (in the influenza study) it seemed to keep the virus from getting into the cells in the first place. One of my primary concerns with my son is that if he gets a high fever, like most diabetics, his blood sugar gets very high very quickly. The idea of him having a fever for days and days is quite frightening. But you also talked about Vitamin D potentially helping to balance the immune system, thus potentially helping to keep the cytokine storm at bay. And as Type-1 is an autoimmune disease, this also sounded promising. I started all of us on Vitamin D3 supplements that day. I am considering raising the amount we are taking based on what you have posted above.

But when I read an article the other night talking about many Covid patients who have died having mysterious severe blood clots, something clicked in my brain. And I went and looked it up, and sure enough, Vitamin D deficiency is a leading cause of blood clots....and high blood pressure...and heart disease.  And as you said, obese people often have low levels due to fat absorption issues. And people with darker skin have trouble making D. And older people have absorption issues and don't tend to go outside.  And children tend to have good levels due to the fact that they do go outside.

There is also a connection with diabetes, at least with Type-1! I wish I could find it, and I will look, but I read this like 30-page study a couple of weeks ago about how they have looked into the connection with autoimmune diseases in general, and that there was a major correlation with Type-1. In fact, there are researchers who now believe that Vitamin D deficiency might also be a major cause of Type-1 diabetes, like a direct cause. They are studying that more with the hopes of keeping children from developing it in the first place. The study did say that there was evidence that Type-2 might also be connected.

And people with Type-2 tend to have at least one other Covid risk factor, like high blood pressure or heart disease, so there might be a connection there either way. 

I will try to find some of the studies that I found, especially the diabetes one, because my brain is telling me, this might be the key. Maybe the people who are getting severely ill from this horrible virus are Vitamin D deficient, and the level of D in any given person might be the (or at least one) determining factor in the degree of illness that develops.

 

There are a lot of autoimmune related conditions that seem to improve with better D levels (keeping in mind need to balance the fat soluble whole ADEK group, and also magnesium seems to play in).  Diabetes 1 may relate to this.

The VitaminDWiki has a lot of articles that can be a start in such research. 

Some problems like ? Some infant cardiovascular issues? Can be fixed with a D injection apparently. 

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15 minutes ago, ElizabethB said:

Sweden is also not on lockdown compared to the rest of Europe.

 

Right.  But Switzerland is.  So perhaps both lockdown and D play a role. And probably a lot of other factors too!

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21 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

Or maybe there is?   Most places with levels above 60 have death rate per 1M in one or two digits? 

France on the chart is confusing btw — in  two spots 43 and 60.

Clearly it is not the only factor, and not going to be a magic bullet as Sweden shows, but it may contribute.

France has widely different D levels in the Northern part of France vs. Southern France.  The 43 was a more northern survey, a southern survey was 80.  They must have averaged the two to get 60.  I wonder if most of the French deaths were in northern France?

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2 minutes ago, ElizabethB said:

France has widely different D levels in the Northern part of France vs. Southern France.  The 43 was a more northern survey, a southern survey was 80.  They must have averaged the two to get 60.  I wonder if most of the French deaths were in northern France?

 

I think Paris was a main hotspot (?) —which is northern, but also has urban issues.  

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23 hours ago, Arcadia said:

California https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/Coronavirus-live-updates-news-bay-area-15192855.php

“7:09 p.m. California has cleared its pending backlog of coronavirus tests: The California Department of Public Health said Thursday that all 482,097 coronavirus tests that have been conducted in the state have reported results. It is the first time since the department began sharing daily testing figures in mid-March that it has reported no testing backlog. At its worst, California had nearly 60,000 pending tests because of a backlog at labs processing the tests. As of yesterday, there were 7,200 pending tests. The agency did not immediately respond to a question about how it was able to clear the backlog. But there is often a lag time between when labs process tests and when they report them to the state. Labs have been steadily increasing their capacity, and testing supplies have become more available in recent days.”

 

Wonder if this is why we're finally getting drive through testing in Contra Costa County. If anyone is interested in charts, we've got lots of numbers over here. I only wish they would indicate how many are recovered. They recently added this dashboard , too, which I think might be more informative than any of the other stats in terms of monitoring how hard its hitting in our area. There are two sites being set up as covid hospitals (a pavillion, the county fairgrounds) and possibly a third? (a county clinic that used to be a hospital). They set up sanitation stations near homeless camps, masks are now required in public stores/work/etc. Cleaning supplies/tp are still hard to find in stores (as in, you must be there in line at opening if you hope to get some), but the grocery stores seem to be fully stocked (except for yeast). It feels like we're taking a deep breath between one wave and the next. Particularly because I'm starting to see posts on local groups about the "empty" hospitals and people complaining about a possible delay to the start of the school year-our end of the county starts in July, and takes a break in October, December and Spring. People don't want to give up that fall break (where are they planning on going?) or keep their kids home until September. 

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