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24 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

I have seen a number of studies. I don’t know if you can be convinced, but I think from what I know of you so far that if you do your own research, and whichever way you find it I think you will feel more satisfied than if I try to convince you of anything. 😊

 

447 articles (most  pro Vitamin D some against) related to Vitamin D and diabetes.  https://vitamindwiki.com/Diabetes

many more for lung and cardiovascular issues.... 

(I expect if you do a bunch of reading you may join me and @ElizabethB as a D proponent, but I may be wrong, and that’s okay too.) 

I see you have read many studies on this. 😊 So at least you won't think I'm crazy! 😂

And for the record, I think you and @ElizabethB are on to something!

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2 hours ago, sbgrace said:

Why do you take it separate from your K? I thought they worked together. One of my K2's has 5000 IU of D with it. 

 

And @Matryoshka

There’s a very complicated K1, K2, A, and E interplay.

After a lot of personal research which I cannot recall all the details of now, I decided to take my D3 at a time separate from my K1/K2 and A dose when possible/convenient. It’s not a hill for me to die on if I don’t manage that. And it’s better imo to take both at same time than to miss out components of ADEK entirely . 

 (I think it might have been that K1 absorption was limited with D, but don’t recall for certain).    K2 is very, very important along with D3 for making sure that calcium ends up in bones and teeth where it belongs and not forming calcium deposits in soft tissues.  But it did not seem to be needed at literally the same moment as they are both fat soluble and don’t quickly get excreted. 

Vitamin K2 And The Calcium Paradox: How a Little-Known Vitamin Could Save Your Life https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00D5TSMAS/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_5Z5OEbPKW1103

I read a very good book on vitamin K but can’t recall if it is the one above or not.  If so it had suggestions for how to balance the fat soluble ADEK group of vitamins. 

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24 minutes ago, ElizabethB said:

No strong correlation between average vitamin D levels and Covid deaths.  There were many countries where it was hard to find vitamin D levels.  It does seem like a few of the very low level countries fared the worst.

image.thumb.png.09c39f06c4c83b5cb3da3a32bea0bbf0.png

image.png.0374fd97d68586b38548af57a22ec2bf.png

 

Or maybe there is?   Most places with levels above 60 have death rate per 1M in one or two digits? 

France on the chart is confusing btw — in  two spots 43 and 60.

Clearly it is not the only factor, and not going to be a magic bullet as Sweden shows, but it may contribute.

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1 minute ago, Pen said:

 

Or maybe there is?   Most places with levels above 60 have death rate per thousand in one or two digits? 

France on the chart is confusing btw — in  two spots 43 and 60.

Clearly it is not the only factor, and not going to be a magic bullet as Sweden shows, but it may contribute.

Yes, I just posted a quick rush of my data, and I was getting things from a variety of sources, I must have ended up with 2 France data points somehow.  I would have cleaned it up and double checked it if I planned on publishing an article or spreading it widely.  Different things online had different vitamin D level averages depending on the study and the year.  The US data was very hard to find, strangely enough.  A ton of articles about what percentage of people were deficient but very few with average D levels.  Even with increased awareness of the importance of D, with more people inside and more people using sunscreen, US vitamin D levels have dropped lately, especially among teens.

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5 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

Or maybe there is?   Most places with levels above 60 have death rate per thousand in one or two digits? 

France on the chart is confusing btw — in  two spots 43 and 60.

Clearly it is not the only factor, and not going to be a magic bullet as Sweden shows, but it may contribute.

Sweden is also not on lockdown compared to the rest of Europe.

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33 minutes ago, caayenne said:

So I have been wanting to jump in with my thoughts on this, as it has been eating my brain for 2 days, but I don't usually have time to both read here and post. So here goes...

When you first started talking about Vitamin D and Covid, I was mostly interested from a preventative standpoint, as my younger son is Type-1 diabetic, and I was quite desperate for anything that might help him ward off the virus. I was especially interested in how (in the influenza study) it seemed to keep the virus from getting into the cells in the first place. One of my primary concerns with my son is that if he gets a high fever, like most diabetics, his blood sugar gets very high very quickly. The idea of him having a fever for days and days is quite frightening. But you also talked about Vitamin D potentially helping to balance the immune system, thus potentially helping to keep the cytokine storm at bay. And as Type-1 is an autoimmune disease, this also sounded promising. I started all of us on Vitamin D3 supplements that day. I am considering raising the amount we are taking based on what you have posted above.

But when I read an article the other night talking about many Covid patients who have died having mysterious severe blood clots, something clicked in my brain. And I went and looked it up, and sure enough, Vitamin D deficiency is a leading cause of blood clots....and high blood pressure...and heart disease.  And as you said, obese people often have low levels due to fat absorption issues. And people with darker skin have trouble making D. And older people have absorption issues and don't tend to go outside.  And children tend to have good levels due to the fact that they do go outside.

There is also a connection with diabetes, at least with Type-1! I wish I could find it, and I will look, but I read this like 30-page study a couple of weeks ago about how they have looked into the connection with autoimmune diseases in general, and that there was a major correlation with Type-1. In fact, there are researchers who now believe that Vitamin D deficiency might also be a major cause of Type-1 diabetes, like a direct cause. They are studying that more with the hopes of keeping children from developing it in the first place. The study did say that there was evidence that Type-2 might also be connected.

And people with Type-2 tend to have at least one other Covid risk factor, like high blood pressure or heart disease, so there might be a connection there either way. 

I will try to find some of the studies that I found, especially the diabetes one, because my brain is telling me, this might be the key. Maybe the people who are getting severely ill from this horrible virus are Vitamin D deficient, and the level of D in any given person might be the (or at least one) determining factor in the degree of illness that develops.

 

There are a lot of autoimmune related conditions that seem to improve with better D levels (keeping in mind need to balance the fat soluble whole ADEK group, and also magnesium seems to play in).  Diabetes 1 may relate to this.

The VitaminDWiki has a lot of articles that can be a start in such research. 

Some problems like ? Some infant cardiovascular issues? Can be fixed with a D injection apparently. 

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21 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

Or maybe there is?   Most places with levels above 60 have death rate per 1M in one or two digits? 

France on the chart is confusing btw — in  two spots 43 and 60.

Clearly it is not the only factor, and not going to be a magic bullet as Sweden shows, but it may contribute.

France has widely different D levels in the Northern part of France vs. Southern France.  The 43 was a more northern survey, a southern survey was 80.  They must have averaged the two to get 60.  I wonder if most of the French deaths were in northern France?

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2 minutes ago, ElizabethB said:

France has widely different D levels in the Northern part of France vs. Southern France.  The 43 was a more northern survey, a southern survey was 80.  They must have averaged the two to get 60.  I wonder if most of the French deaths were in northern France?

 

I think Paris was a main hotspot (?) —which is northern, but also has urban issues.  

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23 hours ago, Arcadia said:

California https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/Coronavirus-live-updates-news-bay-area-15192855.php

“7:09 p.m. California has cleared its pending backlog of coronavirus tests: The California Department of Public Health said Thursday that all 482,097 coronavirus tests that have been conducted in the state have reported results. It is the first time since the department began sharing daily testing figures in mid-March that it has reported no testing backlog. At its worst, California had nearly 60,000 pending tests because of a backlog at labs processing the tests. As of yesterday, there were 7,200 pending tests. The agency did not immediately respond to a question about how it was able to clear the backlog. But there is often a lag time between when labs process tests and when they report them to the state. Labs have been steadily increasing their capacity, and testing supplies have become more available in recent days.”

 

Wonder if this is why we're finally getting drive through testing in Contra Costa County. If anyone is interested in charts, we've got lots of numbers over here. I only wish they would indicate how many are recovered. They recently added this dashboard , too, which I think might be more informative than any of the other stats in terms of monitoring how hard its hitting in our area. There are two sites being set up as covid hospitals (a pavillion, the county fairgrounds) and possibly a third? (a county clinic that used to be a hospital). They set up sanitation stations near homeless camps, masks are now required in public stores/work/etc. Cleaning supplies/tp are still hard to find in stores (as in, you must be there in line at opening if you hope to get some), but the grocery stores seem to be fully stocked (except for yeast). It feels like we're taking a deep breath between one wave and the next. Particularly because I'm starting to see posts on local groups about the "empty" hospitals and people complaining about a possible delay to the start of the school year-our end of the county starts in July, and takes a break in October, December and Spring. People don't want to give up that fall break (where are they planning on going?) or keep their kids home until September. 

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Wow, look at this case count map of France, almost all of the cases in the North, vitamin D levels twice as high in the south as the north.  I'm going to use 43 in my France data and see how the correlation turns out since almost all the cases are in the area were levels were 43, not 80. (80 in south.)

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/world/europe/france-coronavirus-cases.html

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11 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

Check Ireland:  https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18274816/

another consideration may be that summer versus winter levels in some places may be different 

 

People are staying inside more, and like France, the northern vs. southern levels may are different.  I'll see what recent levels are, they may be lower than the 56 I have from the older study.  The US levels have declined in the last few years.  Also, you're right, winter vs. summer levels may be quite different.

image.png

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11 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

Check Ireland:  https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18274816/

another consideration may be that summer versus winter levels in some places may be different 

 

I'm not getting different average numbers, but Dublin looks bad for vitamin D, I wonder if many of the Ireland cases were from Dublin?

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Not sure if this has been posted to this thread or not. 

Quote

The email, sent to a listserv for Ardis G. Egan Junior High School in the city of Los Altos on Thursday, April 2, advertised a study set to begin the next day. With the subject line “COVID-19 antibody testing - FREE,” the email described how participants could gain “peace of mind” and “know if you are immune.” The results would help researchers calculate the virus’s spread throughout the surrounding county of Santa Clara, according to the message sent by Catherine Su, a radiation oncologist married to Jay Bhattacharya, the Stanford professor of medicine leading the study.

A Stanford Professor's Wife Recruited People for His Coronavirus Study Claiming It Would Reveal If They Could "Return to Work Without Fear"

I don't know how the study has any credibility now. 

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1 hour ago, Corraleno said:

Not sure if you mistyped the number in your post or misread Pen's post, but you've got an extra zero in there. She said that 1,000 IU/day was inadequate, not 10,000 IU. Most D3 supplements are sold in doses of 1000 IU or 5000 IU. I have very low D levels for genetic reasons, so I need to supplement, but very few doctors understand what the optimal level should be (as opposed to minimum level needed to prevent rickets). I've tested as low as 12 (which is really bad) and had a doctor tell me I was "a little low" and I should consider taking 400 IU daily — which is way too low to have any real impact. I take around 25,000 IU per week.

Thanks...1000 makes much more sense.  The original had IU with no space and I misread it.  Thinking it may be close to time for new reading glasses.

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29 minutes ago, Pen said:

@square_25 I thought Portugal has better D levels than the list suggests.   And Ecuador only has 33 deaths per 1M ? I thought it was way worse.  

Ecuador has a very low level of reported deaths not reflected in what appears to be the situation on the ground (videos of bodies left outside houses and the streets)

They literally doubled the number of reported cases from 11000 to 22,000 overnight.

and this is the biggest problem with doing this kind of thing on a country comparison - some countries are testing and reporting accurately and some aren’t.  It’s interesting to do but you really need a study on individuals.  

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3 hours ago, Mom2mthj said:

Am I reading this wrong?  I don’t understand your comment about 10000 IU/day as insufficient.  I live in a state without a lot of sunshine all winter and I am not really into sitting out in the sun so my guess is I am low in vitamin d.  Do you know if there is a way to test vitamin d at home? Oh, and when is the best time to take vitamin d?

 

You can order finger prick test kits that you can do at home. You order a test and poke your finger with an enclosed poke-a-rooni (that is the scientific name. LOL). The $65 test I've used also asks you to fill out a kind of longish online questionnaire about your sun exposure, supplements and general health -- all tied to a number, not name. They use this information for research on Vitamin D.

One thing to ask about if you order one, is how long to get test results online. They might be short staffed, or maybe they're okay. I've had to wait several weeks before to get results.

Another point -- read instructions very carefully and multiple times. Watch the short video showing how to get the right sized drop of blood. The drop of blood must fill the dot on the enclosed blotter paper just so. You get multiple tries but to get an accurate result, you need that drop of blood to fill the entire dot.

https://daction.grassrootshealth.net/tests/

Pen has some good info but here are some more studies for you to read if you're so inclined:

https://www.grassrootshealth.net

Researcher Rhonda Patrick has some info about vitamin D and Covid if you want to understand some of the technical stuff:

https://www.foundmyfitness.com/episodes/covid-19-episode-1:

https://www.foundmyfitness.com/episodes/vitamin-d-covid-19

Edited by BeachGal
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31 minutes ago, LoveMyBeautifulGift said:

 

Wonder if this is why we're finally getting drive through testing in Contra Costa County. If anyone is interested in charts, we've got lots of numbers over here. I only wish they would indicate how many are recovered. They recently added this dashboard , too, which I think might be more informative than any of the other stats in terms of monitoring how hard its hitting in our area. 

People are also nagging Santa Clara County for the recovered statistics. People are also asking for case numbers by zip code.  Their dashboard is on this link https://www.sccgov.org/sites/covid19/Pages/dashboard.aspx

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5 minutes ago, Mom2mthj said:
1 hour ago, Corraleno said:

Not sure if you mistyped the number in your post or misread Pen's post, but you've got an extra zero in there. She said that 1,000 IU/day was inadequate, not 10,000 IU. Most D3 supplements are sold in doses of 1000 IU or 5000 IU. I have very low D levels for genetic reasons, so I need to supplement, but very few doctors understand what the optimal level should be (as opposed to minimum level needed to prevent rickets). I've tested as low as 12 (which is really bad) and had a doctor tell me I was "a little low" and I should consider taking 400 IU daily — which is way too low to have any real impact. I take around 25,000 IU per week.

Thanks...1000 makes much more sense.  The original had IU with no space and I misread it.  Thinking it may be close to time for new reading glasses

 

Oh! I didn’t notice the extra 0! 

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https://uscensus.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/7f254e8861bd48df9532fc6e6e829571
 

us census data Covid hub

its not working too well for me on my phone but might work for someone on pc

according to twitter folks it’s showing for New York City

1 in 57 tested positive

1 in 221 hospitalised 

1 in 530 died

no idea how they got that but maybe someone else can work it out.

 

 

 

 

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16 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

https://uscensus.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/7f254e8861bd48df9532fc6e6e829571
 

us census data Covid hub

its not working too well for me on my phone but might work for someone on pc

according to twitter folks it’s showing for New York City

1 in 57 tested positive

1 in 221 hospitalised 

1 in 530 died

no idea how they got that but maybe someone else can work it out.

No idea. It only goes down to county level on your link. Also, it only shows census data, not COVID data. Its an impact planning report. 

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55 minutes ago, BeachGal said:

 

You can order finger prick test kits that you can do at home. You order a test and poke your finger with an enclosed poke-a-rooni (that is the scientific name. LOL). The $65 test I've used also asks you to fill out a kind of longish online questionnaire about your sun exposure, supplements and general health -- all tied to a number, not name. They use this information for research on Vitamin D.

One thing to ask about if you order one, is how long to get test results online. They might be short staffed, or maybe they're okay. I've had to wait several weeks before to get results.

Another point -- read instructions very carefully and multiple times. Watch the short video showing how to get the right sized drop of blood. The drop of blood must fill the dot on the enclosed blotter paper just so. You get multiple tries but to get an accurate result, you need that drop of blood to fill the entire dot.

https://daction.grassrootshealth.net/tests/

Pen has some good info but here are some more studies for you to read if you're so inclined:

https://www.grassrootshealth.net

Researcher Rhonda Patrick has some info about vitamin D and Covid if you want to understand some of the technical stuff:

https://www.foundmyfitness.com/episodes/covid-19-episode-1:

https://www.foundmyfitness.com/episodes/vitamin-d-covid-19

 

These are good links—thanks!

@ElizabethB a  Rhonda Patrick video I saw part of on YouTube which is probably same as Beachgal has linked above also might be important with regard to your D levels and deaths comparison chart.  For example, if a country has a high average level of D, but certain groups with low D are disproportionately represented amongst the dead (elderly, or people from a particular background—such as she mentions people from Somalia in Sweden having lower D and higher deaths?) 

Edited by Pen
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31 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

https://uscensus.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/7f254e8861bd48df9532fc6e6e829571
 

us census data Covid hub

its not working too well for me on my phone but might work for someone on pc

according to twitter folks it’s showing for New York City

1 in 57 tested positive

1 in 221 hospitalised 

1 in 530 died

no idea how they got that but maybe someone else can work it out.

13 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

And if those stats are accurate, if the whole of the US had an NY city level outbreak (unlikely I hope, given social distancing and population density differences) that would lead to over 600,000 deaths.

Those stats are correct, but they are not from the link.

NYC 2018 population estimate 8,398,748 https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/newyorkcitynewyork

cases 1 in 57.47

hospitalized 1 in 221

confirmed deaths 1 in 781

deaths 1 in 530 (confirmed and probable)

NYC https://www1.nyc.gov/site/doh/covid/covid-19-data.page  

Cases: 146,139
Hospitalized*: 37,995
Confirmed deaths: 10,746
Probable deaths: 5,102
Updated: April 24, 2:30 p.m.
Edited by Arcadia
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49 minutes ago, Mom2mthj said:

Thanks...1000 makes much more sense.  The original had IU with no space and I misread it.  Thinking it may be close to time for new reading glasses.

 

Sorry, I didn’t realize your reply to me had the extra zero. I think I will try to use commas in future !

1,000 is easier to distinguish from 10,000 probably. 

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9 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

Those stats are correct, but they are not from the link.

NYC 2018 population estimate 8,398,748 https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/newyorkcitynewyork

cases 1 in 57.47

hospitalized 1 in 221

confirmed deaths 1 in 781

deaths 1 in 530 (confirmed and probable)

NYC https://www1.nyc.gov/site/doh/covid/covid-19-data.page  

Cases: 146,139
Hospitalized*: 37,995
Confirmed deaths: 10,746
Probable deaths: 5,102
Updated: April 24, 2:30 p.m.

Thanks that makes sense.  I couldn’t figure out how they were getting it but half the page was cut off on my phone so I was assuming there was something hidden.

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11 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

These are good links—thanks’

@ElizabethB a  Rhonda Patrick video I saw part of on YouTube which is probably same as Beachgal has linked above also might be important with regard to your D levels and deaths comparison chart.  For example, if a country has a high average level of D, but certain groups with low D are disproportionately represented amongst the dead (elderly, or people from a particular background—such as she mentions people from Somalia in Sweden having lower D and higher deaths?) 

Yes, you really can't chart it all, but almost every group seeing higher deaths rates is also deficient in vitamin D, those with darker skin, the obese, the elderly, etc.

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Just now, Ausmumof3 said:

Thanks that makes sense.  I couldn’t figure out how they were getting it but half the page was cut off on my phone so I was assuming there was something hidden.

I tried the same link on my iPhone, iPad and 15.4" windows laptop but could only get county census data. I could not find NYC's population from that link.

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@Penor any other vitamin D converts, I started a new thread with what I think is the strongest vitamin D information to share with people.  Even if it doesn't help with Covid, good D levels are healthy overall and it is easy and cheap and low risk to get good vitamin D levels.  Feel free to add good videos and other things that D helps with there!

(I have no stock in vitamin D gummies!!)

Edited by ElizabethB
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https://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=2054&artikel=7459493

about 2 Swedish nursing homes where all residents were tested for CV19 and a lot tested positive even if they had no symptoms...

seems Somalis and other immigrants also often work in nursing homes as staff and then live in more dense situations with more extended family groups than average Swedish populations.  Plus may not have understood about Distancing in same ways...

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3 minutes ago, Pen said:

https://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=2054&artikel=7459493

about 2 Swedish nursing homes where all residents were tested for CV19 and a lot tested positive even if they had no symptoms...

seems Somalis and other immigrants also often work in nursing homes as staff and then live in more dense situations with more extended family groups than average Swedish populations.  Plus may not have understood about Distancing in same ways...

We’re seeing a few similar studies.  It would be really great to see a follow up two to three weeks later to confirm that no one developed symptoms.

also are there other viruses that have that level of asymptomaticness (which I guess is not a word!)

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1 minute ago, Ausmumof3 said:

We’re seeing a few similar studies.  It would be really great to see a follow up two to three weeks later to confirm that no one developed symptoms.

also are there other viruses that have that level of asymptomaticness (which I guess is not a word!)

 

Guess it just became a word ! 

 

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5 hours ago, Pen said:

 

The dormitory living is very apt to lead to rapid spread.  

But I expect they are relatively young—not like elders in close quarters nursing homes

And if latitude and Vitamin D is relevant Singapore is in a great area for that!

 

plus advanced health care

 

Also they might have had the TB vax.

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I'm pro vitamin D, but I'm wondering - how do they know the country's average levels of vitamin D?  In my experience, they only test when trying to find out what's wrong, so people with good health / energy levels would not be included in the stats?  And I'm sure this varies from country to country, so is this really a reliable comparison?

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4 minutes ago, SKL said:

I'm pro vitamin D, but I'm wondering - how do they know the country's average levels of vitamin D?  In my experience, they only test when trying to find out what's wrong, so people with good health / energy levels would not be included in the stats?  And I'm sure this varies from country to country, so is this really a reliable comparison?

They take random people and do vitamin D levels, some countries take random samples from a variety of cities and will have a Northern City vs. Southern city difference, they report the average of the cities sampled as the country average.

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15 minutes ago, ElizabethB said:

They take random people and do vitamin D levels, some countries take random samples from a variety of cities and will have a Northern City vs. Southern city difference, they report the average of the cities sampled as the country average.

All countries do this?

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@square_25@mathnerd

Santa Clara county declared state of emergency on Feb 10, SIP from March 17

NYC declared state of emergency on March 13, PAUSE from March 20

The early declaration of state of emergency by my county might have make unaware people in my county more aware. People that did not start worrying in January might have started worrying in early February. 

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42 minutes ago, SKL said:

I'm pro vitamin D, but I'm wondering - how do they know the country's average levels of vitamin D?  In my experience, they only test when trying to find out what's wrong, so people with good health / energy levels would not be included in the stats?  And I'm sure this varies from country to country, so is this really a reliable comparison?

I’m needing to reread it but I think they did some studies here linked to maternal health/well being.  I know a friend who was a dental hygienist and she was involved with a study on levels in pregnant mums and the general tooth health of the babies. I’m not sure what they found they were going to follow them till the kids adult teeth came through to see if it affected positioning.  I also know there have been various studies done tracking vit d levels and depression and anxiety.  They found not surprisingly that Queenslanders had better levels than Tasmanian’s from memory.

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