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gardenmom5

wuhan - coronavirus

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2 hours ago, Pen said:

 

I suspect that’s nowhere near enough arrests etc to shut that down. For young mostly men wanting to do or watch illegal and dangerous car stunts, a small added risk of arrest probably adds to their thrills. 

 

12 vehicles towed should equal a MINIMUM of 12 arrests. 

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41 minutes ago, BeachGal said:

Antibiotic resistance in Italy is the highest in all of Europe and is probably making it difficult to treat secondary bacterial infections from Covid. Iceland is the lowest. Germany is quite low, too.

https://www.oecd.org/italy/Stemming-the-Superbug-Tide-in-Italy.pdf

https://www.statista.com/chart/16012/median-number-of-deaths-due-to-antibiotic-resistance-bacteria/

Oof :-(. I keep worrying about a world without antibiotics...

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an interesting tidbit that has come up, and can definitely be an indicator of scope - is number of cellphone accounts during a period compared to the previous year.   right now - from dec - feb china had 21million cell accounts closed.  you have to have a cell phone to buy a train ticket, and they are using them for monitoring a persons health status (per NYT) so you have to have it to travel period.  the same time period the previous year, they had an increase of 6.6Million users.

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28 minutes ago, Plum said:

Thank you. I will look that up. 
Would it be better for the patients that are hospitalized but don’t require ventilation to help them recover faster and avoid possible intubation? I’m trying to see the possible uses. 

It may be helpful for them. Hopefully more information will come from those in the epicenters now. I have seen several mentions of having the patient lie prone even when still on 2 liters oxygen via nasal cannula and that it may help slow progression.

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3 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

an interesting tidbit that has come up, and can definitely be an indicator of scope - is number of cellphone accounts during a period compared to the previous year.   right now - from dec - feb china had 21million cell accounts closed.  you have to have a cell phone to buy a train ticket, and they are using them for monitoring a persons health status (per NYT) so you have to have it to travel period.  the same time period the previous year, they had an increase of 6.6Million users.

The population of Wuhan is only 11 million. What are we arguing here? That it's widespread across China? Do we know where the 21 million cancellations were?

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6 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

an interesting tidbit that has come up, and can definitely be an indicator of scope - is number of cellphone accounts during a period compared to the previous year.   right now - from dec - feb china had 21million cell accounts closed.  you have to have a cell phone to buy a train ticket, and they are using them for monitoring a persons health status (per NYT) so you have to have it to travel period.  the same time period the previous year, they had an increase of 6.6Million users.


Yeah, this was posted somewhere in the labyrinthine depths of this thread. It’s evidence, but given the economic issues and level of disruption, not conclusive.

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1 minute ago, Slache said:

The population of Wuhan is only 11 million. What are we arguing here? That it's widespread across China? Do we know where the 21 million cancellations were?

I’d assume it’s widespread, personally. But I don’t have evidence.

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The European version of NextTrace:

Quote

 

A group of European experts said on Wednesday they would soon launch technology for smartphones to help trace people who had come into contact with those infected with coronavirus, helping the health authorities act swiftly to halt its spread.

The initiative involves gathering data via smartphones to show who a person with the virus had come in close contact with, so that those people at risk could then be contacted.

The ability to track down those at risk of infection more accurately could help avoid having to 'lock down' entire societies, with the resulting hugely damaging economic impact.

...

Epidemiologists say contact tracing will become a vital weapon in containing future flare-ups in COVID-19, the flu-like disease caused by coronavirus, once national lockdowns slow the rapid spread of the virus.

The illness can be passed on by people showing no symptoms, putting a premium on warning those at risk of infection swiftly after an individual tests positive, while technology can be used to avoid the sweeping national measures to halt the spread.

"We all know that, as a society and an economy, we cannot go on like this for an extended period of time," Marcel Salathe, professor of digital epidemiology at the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology in Lausanne, told a news briefing.

"There is a more efficient way to break this exponential trend of growth."

 

https://news.trust.org/item/20200401131119-famq1

Edited by RootAnn
fixed quote box a bit.

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https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/national-international/coast-guard-cruise-ships-must-stay-at-sea-with-sick-onboard-amid-pandemic/2265385/

“The U.S. Coast Guard has directed all cruise ships to remain at sea where they may be sequestered “indefinitely" during the coronavirus pandemic and be prepared to send any severely ill passengers to the countries where the vessels are registered. 

For most of the South Florida's cruise ships, that means the Bahamas, where people are still recovering from last year's hurricanes.

CORONAVIRUS LATEST

The rules, which apply to any vessel carrying more than 50 people, were issued in a March 29 safety bulletin signed by Coast Guard Rear Admiral E.C. Jones, whose district includes Florida, Georgia, South Carolina and Puerto Rico.

More than two dozen cruise ships are either lined up at Port Miami and Port Everglades or waiting offshore, the Miami Herald reported. Most have only crew aboard, but several still carry passengers and are steaming toward South Florida ports. Carnival notified the SEC Tuesday that it has more than 6,000 passengers still at sea. 

Federal, state and local officials have been negotiating over whether two Holland America cruise ships that had been stranded off the coast of Panama with sick and dead passengers would be allowed to dock at Port Everglades this week. More than 300 American citizens are on the two ships.

...

Under normal conditions, when a passenger or crew member become too ill for the ship's medical team to care for, they call the Coast Guard to provide a medical evacuation to an onshore hospital. Under the new rules, sick passengers would be sequestered indefinitely on board.

“This is necessary as shore-side medical facilities may reach full capacity and lose the ability to accept and effectively treat additional critically-ill patients," the memo said.

The document requires all ships in U.S. waters to report their numbers of sick and dead on board each day or face civil penalties or criminal prosecution. 

Cruise ships with sick passengers must consult with the Coast Guard, which may now recommend keeping the sick person on board the ship. The Coast Guard will decide if a transfer is absolutely necessary, but the cruise line would be responsible for arranging on-shore transportation and hospital beds.”

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8 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

The U.S. Coast Guard has directed all cruise ships to remain at sea where they may be sequestered “indefinitely" during the coronavirus pandemic and be prepared to send any severely ill passengers to the countries where the vessels are registered. 

This sounds like the worst thing ever for the people on board since we've already seen the virus will just keep spreading on board.

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4 minutes ago, RootAnn said:

This sounds like the worst thing ever for the people on board since we've already seen the virus will just keep spreading on board.

I think that directive is more to prevent Florida’s ports and other ports in US to be used as “dumping ground” by cruise ship operators. All the other countries are rejecting requests to dock. 

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I feel some sympathy for those on board the cruise ships... but sometimes stupid decisions have repercussions.  They boarded ships knowing it was a pandemic.  It isn't fair to dump them on port cities who are already going to be strained dealing with their own citizens.  Maybe if every country promised to move their citizens out within so many hours?  Whatever the solution,  it should be shared by the countries of the travelers and should not impact care to residents of the port cities.  

 

 

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6 minutes ago, BusyMom5 said:

I feel some sympathy for those on board the cruise ships... but sometimes stupid decisions have repercussions.  They boarded ships knowing it was a pandemic.  It isn't fair to dump them on port cities who are already going to be strained dealing with their own citizens.  Maybe if every country promised to move their citizens out within so many hours?  Whatever the solution,  it should be shared by the countries of the travelers and should not impact care to residents of the port cities.  

 

 

What I don't get are these articles that include quotes from passengers like "three weeks ago when we boarded, we didn't know that it was a pandemic".  What rock were they living under?  We've known a lot longer than three weeks ago that there was a pandemic.  They just didn't want to acknowledge it or have it mess with their vacation plans.   (And yes, the "three weeks" was an accurate quote from an article posted today by NBC.)

Edited by Jean in Newcastle
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2 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

What I don't get are these articles that include quotes from passengers like "three weeks ago when we boarded, we didn't know that it was a pandemic".  What rock were they living under?  We've known a lot longer than three weeks ago that there was a pandemic.  They just didn't want to acknowledge it or have it mess with their vacation plans. 

The no refunds rock.

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10 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

What I don't get are these articles that include quotes from passengers like "three weeks ago when we boarded, we didn't know that it was a pandemic".  What rock were they living under? 

Perhaps the one created by various talk radio and "news" personalities who were still insisting this was a minor illness and all the "hysteria" was a politically-motivated hoax. The primary audience of those shows tends to be the same older demographic that takes cruises. Also I think the news report said only 300 were Americans, so some of the passengers may be from countries where the news was even more "filtered" than it is here.

I agree that anyone who was paying attention and listening to reputable news sources should have known that taking a cruise right now was a really bad idea, but I can also see how people who were being told by their preferred news sources that it was no big deal, combined with cruise lines that were insisting everything was fine and refusing to give refunds, could have thought the risks were quite low. 

I certainly understand the POV of those who don't want everyone unloaded in FL and overwhelming their healthcare system, but I also don't think its morally defensible to just leave thousands of people stranded on ships to survive or die without adequate care. I think they should at least let the Americans off and put them in quarantine, and find a way to let other countries get their own citizens home as well. 

 

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1 hour ago, square_25 said:

These findings seem like they would be pretty significant, but I'm not sure I fully understand them. Are they saying that the human immune system tends to under-react to this virus, possibly because it is "turning off" some of the genes that regulate the response? It sounds like it does trigger some things (cytokines), but not others (interferon I & III)? Based on anecdotal reports on individual cases, it seems like younger people who get extremely sick or die from this tend to get critical very quickly, within days of the first symptoms, while older people deteriorate much more slowly over the course of 2-3 weeks or more. Maybe the deaths in younger healthier people are more likely to be caused by cytokine storm, while older people whose immune systems are less robust to begin with are further "under-reacting" due to specific characteristics of the virus, and after several weeks of trying, weakly, to fight it off their defenses are eventually overwhelmed? 

I would love for someone who fully understands this article to explain the implications for treatment at a "Virology for Dummies" sort of level...

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59 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

What I don't get are these articles that include quotes from passengers like "three weeks ago when we boarded, we didn't know that it was a pandemic".  What rock were they living under?  We've known a lot longer than three weeks ago that there was a pandemic.  They just didn't want to acknowledge it or have it mess with their vacation plans.   (And yes, the "three weeks" was an accurate quote from an article posted today by NBC.)

WHO declared it a pandemic on March 11, which was just exactly 3 weeks ago today.  My kids haven't even been out of school for 3 whole weeks yet.

I would not have traveled, but still, things were a lot different 3 weeks ago than they are today.

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3 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

These findings seem like they would be pretty significant, but I'm not sure I fully understand them. Are they saying that the human immune system tends to under-react to this virus, possibly because it is "turning off" some of the genes that regulate the response? It sounds like it does trigger some things (cytokines), but not others (interferon I & III)? Based on anecdotal reports on individual cases, it seems like younger people who get extremely sick or die from this tend to get critical very quickly, within days of the first symptoms, while older people deteriorate much more slowly over the course of 2-3 weeks or more. Maybe the deaths in younger healthier people are more likely to be caused by cytokine storm, while older people whose immune systems are less robust to begin with are further "under-reacting" due to specific characteristics of the virus, and after several weeks of trying, weakly, to fight it off their defenses are eventually overwhelmed? 

I would love for someone who fully understands this article to explain the implications for treatment at a "Virology for Dummies" sort of level...

I would frankly love to know more, too :-P. I have just enough background to understand it at the same kind of level as you do, but I'm not a biologist. 

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1 minute ago, SKL said:

WHO declared it a pandemic on March 11, which was just exactly 3 weeks ago today.  My kids haven't even been out of school for 3 whole weeks yet.

I would not have traveled, but still, things were a lot different 3 weeks ago than they are today.

 

exactly.  March 11 was the first day a traveler here rec'd his positive results; the school shut down that night since he had socialized with their staff in the meantime. Why wasn't this guy screened before leaving Italy or upon entrance to the U.S. if it was so well known then.

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8 minutes ago, SKL said:

WHO declared it a pandemic on March 11, which was just exactly 3 weeks ago today.  My kids haven't even been out of school for 3 whole weeks yet.

I would not have traveled, but still, things were a lot different 3 weeks ago than they are today.

People were calling for WHO to call it a pandemic long before that. 

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6 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

These findings seem like they would be pretty significant, but I'm not sure I fully understand them. Are they saying that the human immune system tends to under-react to this virus, possibly because it is "turning off" some of the genes that regulate the response? It sounds like it does trigger some things (cytokines), but not others (interferon I & III)? Based on anecdotal reports on individual cases, it seems like younger people who get extremely sick or die from this tend to get critical very quickly, within days of the first symptoms, while older people deteriorate much more slowly over the course of 2-3 weeks or more. Maybe the deaths in younger healthier people are more likely to be caused by cytokine storm, while older people whose immune systems are less robust to begin with are further "under-reacting" due to specific characteristics of the virus, and after several weeks of trying, weakly, to fight it off their defenses are eventually overwhelmed? 

I would love for someone who fully understands this article to explain the implications for treatment at a "Virology for Dummies" sort of level...

This is exactly how I understand it, but I feel way over my head... I *think* that upregulating ACE2 receptors would be a good thing, if I'm reading this correctly. This article talks about the role of ACE2 receptors as well. In terms of treatment it suggests upping vit d ( @Pen has mentioned that throughout this thread) and starting ventilation sooner.

https://www.bmj.com/content/368/bmj.m810/rr-24

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6 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Comment from Dr Paul Kelly (deputy chief Medical officer for Australia). “In fact, up to now, we’ve never had a successful vaccine against a coronavirus (other than COVID-19).

“This is (an) experimental time.”

This comment concerns me.  I have seen mention of significant issues with attempted SARS vaccines.  

I can't remember if I saw this link here, but there have been attempts that were shelved for lack of funding/interest/urgency. https://abc7.com/coronavirus-vaccine-covid-19-texas-health/5998338/ 

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47 minutes ago, TracyP said:

This is exactly how I understand it, but I feel way over my head... I *think* that upregulating ACE2 receptors would be a good thing, if I'm reading this correctly. This article talks about the role of ACE2 receptors as well. In terms of treatment it suggests upping vit d ( @Pen has mentioned that throughout this thread) and starting ventilation sooner.

https://www.bmj.com/content/368/bmj.m810/rr-24

 

I’m not sure one wants to either upregulate or downregulate ACE2, but if breathing is a problem, I think getting help sooner rather than later (Like before a ventilator would be needed at all) when maybe just an O2 tank would help enough, for example, might be beneficial if the hospital situation allows.  Unfortunately once it gets to an area like parts of Italy or NYC (Queens) only “later” may be considered for limited care resources. 

I’ll use this moment to link the Vitamin D slide show (which also relates to ACE2 receptors) again:

https://www.vitamindservice.de/coronavirus-e

 

(Eta: people who are sicker seem to have fewer ACE2 receptors possibly—?   But up regulated ACE2 for someone may just mean more receptors  for SARS-CoV-2 to attach to and replicate.   vitamin D seems promising to me in seeming to inhibit the ability of the virus to use the receptors and possibly to upregulate ability to fight off the virus   ...   and something we can do at home ...  non invasive and relatively inexpensive....   and if the appropriate co-vitamins are also taken probably also pretty safe...   )

Edited by Pen

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4 hours ago, Plum said:

Thank you. I will look that up. 
Would it be better for the patients that are hospitalized but don’t require ventilation to help them recover faster and avoid possible intubation? I’m trying to see the possible uses. 

Quoting myself because JAMALive answered my question. 
https://youtu.be/c7s3fS6RTlQ

 

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1 hour ago, Corraleno said:

Perhaps the one created by various talk radio and "news" personalities who were still insisting this was a minor illness and all the "hysteria" was a politically-motivated hoax. The primary audience of those shows tends to be the same older demographic that takes cruises. Also I think the news report said only 300 were Americans, so some of the passengers may be from countries where the news was even more "filtered" than it is here.

I agree that anyone who was paying attention and listening to reputable news sources should have known that taking a cruise right now was a really bad idea, but I can also see how people who were being told by their preferred news sources that it was no big deal, combined with cruise lines that were insisting everything was fine and refusing to give refunds, could have thought the risks were quite low. 

I certainly understand the POV of those who don't want everyone unloaded in FL and overwhelming their healthcare system, but I also don't think its morally defensible to just leave thousands of people stranded on ships to survive or die without adequate care. I think they should at least let the Americans off and put them in quarantine, and find a way to let other countries get their own citizens home as well. 

 

Also, I don’t know how justified Florida is in complaining about the cruise ships lack of forward thinking when they haven’t exactly done a stellar job at that either. 

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6 hours ago, Plum said:

@TCB

NBC just aired a piece about helmet ventilation. I know dh’s hospital put in orders. I’ve been hoping to see this! He’s giving the design for free for more people to make it. Non-invasive ventilation is so much better according to the studies. It avoids intubation problems. Sedation drug shortages. ICU bed shortages. ♥️♥️♥️

And how can I forget? No ventilator required!

and the small family owned businesses is only selling it for $162  😭🙏🏻♥️


https://www.today.com/video/small-company-in-texas-town-could-have-new-solution-to-ventilator-shortage-81480261958?playlist=mmlsnnd_55339009-nnd

 

I am really confused by this article.  In the picture, they're attaching ventilator circuits (the tubes that come to and from a ventilator, to the ventilator.  In Italy the helmets they have are being used as ventilator interfaces, instead of the masks that American hospitals use for Non Invasive Ventilation.  But then the video has a comment about using it directly with the oxygen from the wall.

Does anyone know?  Is this a form of noninvasive ventilation, or is it an alternate way to deliver high flow oxygen?

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I think that it is shameful to deny medical help to American citizens because they traveled, if the US government wasn't issuing a travel restriction or banning travel. Especially if the US government was downplaying the severity. You can't tell people it is okay to travel, then when they do say, "sorry, you should have known better, feel free to die now". Our own citizens? On this very board I recall people around that time saying they would still cruise, and had hoped there would be deals offered they could snatch up. 

I mean, yes, it was not smart. But we have a LOT of not smart citizens, lol. We generally still treat them when sick. 

There has been SO much misinformation put out there about this virus, I can't truly blame people for underestimating it 3 weeks ago. Heck, even Dr Fauci said something just recently about how we are getting "an inkling" that this may be spread by asymptomatic people, not just coughs/sneezes. Um, hello? The boardies here have known that for WEEKS but he's just saying, "well, maybe" now? No wonder people made poor decisions, given such wishy washy advice!

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Holland America/Carnaval has certainly known taking passengers on cruises every since the beginning of February when they stranded my friend on the Westerdam..........I blame the corporate entity more than the passengers.

Btw so has the other main cruise group......Diamond Princess anyone?

Edited by mumto2
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3 minutes ago, TCB said:

Also, I don’t know how justified Florida is in complaining about the cruise ships lack of forward thinking when they haven’t exactly done a stellar job at that either. 

Yup, Just today did the governor finally agree to set a stay at home order for the whole state. 

I do think it makes sense to have the cruise ships come to maybe canveral, not miami, given the situation in Miami Dade and Broward counties. 

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5 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

I think that it is shameful to deny medical help to American citizens because they traveled, if the US government wasn't issuing a travel restriction or banning travel. Especially if the US government was downplaying the severity. You can't tell people it is okay to travel, then when they do say, "sorry, you should have known better, feel free to die now". Our own citizens? On this very board I recall people around that time saying they would still cruise, and had hoped there would be deals offered they could snatch up. 

I mean, yes, it was not smart. But we have a LOT of not smart citizens, lol. We generally still treat them when sick. 

There has been SO much misinformation put out there about this virus, I can't truly blame people for underestimating it 3 weeks ago. Heck, even Dr Fauci said something just recently about how we are getting "an inkling" that this may be spread by asymptomatic people, not just coughs/sneezes. Um, hello? The boardies here have known that for WEEKS but he's just saying, "well, maybe" now? No wonder people made poor decisions, given such wishy washy advice!

I absolutely agree. 

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7 minutes ago, CuriousMomof3 said:

 

I am really confused by this article.  In the picture, they're attaching ventilator circuits (the tubes that come to and from a ventilator, to the ventilator.  In Italy the helmets they have are being used as ventilator interfaces, instead of the masks that American hospitals use for Non Invasive Ventilation.  But then the video has a comment about using it directly with the oxygen from the wall.

Does anyone know?  Is this a form of noninvasive ventilation, or is it an alternate way to deliver high flow oxygen?

Now that I know the name of the company (Sea-Long) I can research it a bit more. They are using it to deliver high flow oxygen. 
 

Massachusetts General Hospital, the University of Chicago Medical Center, the Hospitals at the University of Pennsylvania and others are trying to stock up on the device, which the Food and Drug Administration has approved for use in hyperbaric medicine, in which patients are put in a high-pressure oxygen environment to treat various conditions.

Dr. Berra said Massachusetts General plans to test the helmets out, hoping the device “could buy some time” for patients while waiting to see if the lung inflammation associated with the disease diminishes or antiviral therapies start to work.
 

The most severely ill Covid-19 patients have such trouble breathing that they are put on a ventilator, an invasive therapy that involves inserting a tube into the patient’s windpipe. But the surge of patients has stirred concerns about a shortage of ventilators. In addition, ventilated patients risk infections and other negative side effects.

For less severely ill patients, doctors prefer to deliver extra oxygen via noninvasive devices such as face masks or nasal tubes.

The helmets do essentially the same thing but they can be worn around the clock, unlike face masks, which can cause ulcers. And they can be fitted with a filter to keep virus-filled breath mist from leaking out into the hospital environment.

www.wsj.com/amp/articles/lacking-ventilators-hospitals-seek-out-alternative-device-11585154579

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16 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Yes, Chinese people here seem to have been advocating for closures and can’t believe people not wearing masks etc.  I think they probably had more direct info as to what was really happening. 

They have seen inside video footages and know the real death number in China; westerners do not. So there is that. 

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17 minutes ago, TCB said:

Also, I don’t know how justified Florida is in complaining about the cruise ships lack of forward thinking when they haven’t exactly done a stellar job at that either. 


To be fair, the cruise ship industry was forewarned by Diamond Princess with their first case on February 4th. Cruise line operators were not willing to cancel future trips and refund the money. 

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59 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

People were calling for WHO to call it a pandemic long before that. 

And why did WHO NOT call it a pandemic? Is it possible that China gave WHO pressure to not call it a pandemic for fear of economic loss? 

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6 hours ago, Slache said:

What interests me more is the urn count. 

I saw today that Mr. Sun Jiatong, the Wuhan official in charge of Civil Affairs Bureau  said that the death number was 21,703 as of March 30. I think this numbe is much more believable than the 2500 deaths in Wuhan published by the Chinese government, though even this number is not big enough to be the real number. 

Edited by JadeOrchidSong
Wrong spelling
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4 minutes ago, JadeOrchidSong said:

I saw today that Mr. Sun Jiatong, the Wuhan official in charge of cremation said that the death number was 21,703 as of March 30. I think this numbe is much more believable than the 2500 deaths in Wuhan published by the Chinese government. 

But that's not nearly 2% of Wuhan. Of course that does not include the 5 million that fled before the lockdown or the supposed piles of bodies being burned in the streets if you believe the tales.

We will never know the truth.

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12 minutes ago, JadeOrchidSong said:

I saw today that Mr. Sun Jiatong, the Wuhan official in charge of cremation said that the death number was 21,703 as of March 30. I think this numbe is much more believable than the 2500 deaths in Wuhan published by the Chinese government. 

And that's just in Wuhan? 

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34 minutes ago, Arcadia said:


To be fair, the cruise ship industry was forewarned by Diamond Princess with their first case on February 4th. Cruise line operators were not willing to cancel future trips and refund the money. 

I mean, we were all warned by Italy, but that didn't lead to us immediately shutting down the country :P. People don't like losing money. 

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8 minutes ago, square_25 said:

And that's just in Wuhan? 

Yes. Sun Jiatong is a Wuhan official, leader of Wuhan Civil Affairs Bureau. 

Edited by JadeOrchidSong
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Fun fact, hubby just reminded me that Dr Fauci spoke at my husband's med school graduation nearly 30 years ago! I remember he had a good speaker, but had forgotten who it was!

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55 minutes ago, Plum said:

Now that I know the name of the company (Sea-Long) I can research it a bit more. They are using it to deliver high flow oxygen. 
 

Massachusetts General Hospital, the University of Chicago Medical Center, the Hospitals at the University of Pennsylvania and others are trying to stock up on the device, which the Food and Drug Administration has approved for use in hyperbaric medicine, in which patients are put in a high-pressure oxygen environment to treat various conditions.

Dr. Berra said Massachusetts General plans to test the helmets out, hoping the device “could buy some time” for patients while waiting to see if the lung inflammation associated with the disease diminishes or antiviral therapies start to work.
 

The most severely ill Covid-19 patients have such trouble breathing that they are put on a ventilator, an invasive therapy that involves inserting a tube into the patient’s windpipe. But the surge of patients has stirred concerns about a shortage of ventilators. In addition, ventilated patients risk infections and other negative side effects.

For less severely ill patients, doctors prefer to deliver extra oxygen via noninvasive devices such as face masks or nasal tubes.

The helmets do essentially the same thing but they can be worn around the clock, unlike face masks, which can cause ulcers. And they can be fitted with a filter to keep virus-filled breath mist from leaking out into the hospital environment.

www.wsj.com/amp/articles/lacking-ventilators-hospitals-seek-out-alternative-device-11585154579

 

OK that makes a little more sense.   It still completely leaves out noninvasive ventilation, but it seems like this is more like a CPAP in that it's continual pressure.  I certainly hope it works for people!

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4 minutes ago, square_25 said:

I mean, we were all warned by Italy, but that didn't lead to us immediately shutting down the country :P. People don't like losing money. 

Air travel was reduced. Countries closed borders. The cruise ship industry of course do not like losing money but the first deaths from Diamond Princess’ coronavirus cases were reported on Feb 20th 😡
 

Quoted is from Jan 30th https://qz.com/1793858/wuhan-virus-borders-closed-airlines-cancel-china-flights/

“The US and Britain have issued travel warnings for China in light of the outbreak. Globally, more than a dozen airlines have suspended routes to mainland China. United Airlines cited a “significant decline in demand” for its move—China has quarantined over a dozen cities and barred overseas travel by tour groups. While some have cut flights for two weeks, in some cases the suspensions stretch until April.

...
Here’s a list of moves to restrict entry for Chinese nationals:

Mongolia: Closed China border crossings

Philippines: Halted visas on arrival for Chinese nationals

Hong Kong: Closing direct trains and ferries; closing some border crossings; Beijing to halt individual visitor permits starting Jan. 30

Kazakhstan: Closed all transport links and stopped visa issuance to Chinese nationals

Macau: Suspended individual visitors from mainland China; suspended ferries to Hong Kong

Nepal: Sealed border with China for two weeks from Jan. 29

North Korea: Closed its borders to all foreign tourists

Russia: Banned Chinese tour groups, closed Far Eastern borders; suspends e-visas for Chinese nationals

Taiwan: Barred entry to most Chinese nationals

Vietnam: Closed border crossing at Lao Cai to Chinese tourists; visas on arrival suspended for mainland China, Macau, and Hong Kong residents”

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28 minutes ago, JadeOrchidSong said:

I saw today that Mr. Sun Jiatong, the Wuhan official in charge of cremation said that the death number was 21,703 as of March 30. I think this numbe is much more believable than the 2500 deaths in Wuhan published by the Chinese government. 

Is that the total number of bodies that required cremation in Wuhan from January through March?

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Just now, Arcadia said:

Air travel was reduced. Countries closed borders. The cruise ship industry of course do not like losing money but the first deaths from Diamond Princess’ coronavirus cases were reported on Feb 20th 😡

Oh, it was stupid. Really stupid. But if we only take care of the rational actors, we're not going to have very many people left... 

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Right, but at that point the talking heads were saying it was a Chinese problem, not something you'd pick up on vacation in bermuda or wherever cruises go these days. 

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1 minute ago, Ktgrok said:

Right, but at that point the talking heads were saying it was a Chinese problem, not something you'd pick up on vacation in bermuda or wherever cruises go these days. 

Exactly. You can always count on people sticking their heads in the sand when the truth is not convenient... 

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3 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

Right, but at that point the talking heads were saying it was a Chinese problem, not something you'd pick up on vacation in bermuda or wherever cruises go these days. 

Exactly — and the ships that are now stuck off the coast of FL were nowhere near Asia, or even Europe. At the time the Zaandam left Buenos Aires, there were few if any cases in South America, and most people on the ship may have assumed, based on what they were hearing on the news and from the cruise lines, that they were safe since they weren't going anywhere near the hotspots. The fact that flights from China may have been shut down back then would not have seemed in any way relevant to people traveling from Argentina to Florida.

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Coral Princess

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/coronavirus/fl-bz-another-ship-with-sick-onboard-heading-to-fort-lauderdale-20200331-2pok2ylw7vc33me5gmphmk5kha-story.html

“Another cruise ship with sick people on board is planning to disembark in Fort Lauderdale, as the U.S. Coast Guard considers sequestering ships “indefinitely” to deal with increased demand for medical evacuations from the fleet of cruise ships creeping off South Florida’s coast with nowhere to go.

The Coast Guard is now directing ships registered in the Bahamas to seek aid from that country first, even if the ships are owned by U.S.-based companies. The agency simply can’t keep up with the strain on its resources, according to a public memo.

The Coast Guard says ships carrying more than 50 persons on board should prepare to care for those aboard with influenza-like illnesses "for an indefinite period of time” rather than relying on the Coast Guard to evacuate sick passengers.

Princess Cruises’ Coral Princess has a “higher-than-normal” number of people with flu-like symptoms and plans to bring them to Port Everglades on April 4 following a service call in Bridgetown, Barbados, on Tuesday night, the cruise line said in a statement released Tuesday.

“Many” of the sick passengers have tested positive for regular influenza, the statement said, adding, “However, given the concern surrounding COVID-19 and out of an abundance of caution, guests have been asked to self-isolate in their staterooms and all meals will now be delivered by room service.”

Crew members will remain in their staterooms when not working, the statement said.

It is not known whether any of the sick people are carrying COVID-19. Ships typically do not have tests on board. Officials of Princess Cruises and its parent company, Miami-based Carnival Corp., did not immediately respond to questions about the matter.”

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