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wuhan - coronavirus

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2 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Ok?  I think.  We thought it was fun when we had a 3. Something and I sent the kids under the table.  A six sounds a bit more dramatic!

The epicenter was out in the wilderness. I haven’t even seen any reports of property damage. In the house it felt like a mild version of bumper cars and we didn’t realize what it was until it was almost over. The kids were outside and didn’t really notice. 

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Standoff in Perth

https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-01/coronavirus-cruise-ship-artania-refusing-to-leave-fremantle-port/12110206?pfmredir=sm

border force has requested a cruise ship to leave and they have refused.  Most passengers have been flown home to Germany or transferred to a private hospital in Western Australia.  There are 450 crew on board and 12 passengers that have been deemed to frail to fly home.  
 

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Tbh I am a bit spooked about leaving my kids home with my teenager when I go to my prenatal appt this week, though. I don’t like the thought of no grownups home if there’s aftershocks. 

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2 hours ago, square_25 said:

I'm not in favor of terrifying people with misleading information. 

What I understand is that young people being affected by this virus is a new trend that they are seeing and they want us to be aware of it. When it was spreading in China, there were no child casualties. In california, there were several local cases through community spread when my son had to attend an event with several hundred kids in the first week of March (mandatory for his sport activity) and I consoled myself with the fact that kids would be spared even if he got it, because that is what we knew then, from China. We have zero information from Iran which is another country devastated by this tragedy. So, we can assume that young people escaped death from this virus there as well.

This virus has mutated since it reached other continents and perhaps it acts differently than it did in bats and the people in Chinese provinces. It is possibly a new trend with the virus. I see parents bringing toddlers to Safeway (grocery chain) and letting them pick freshly baked donuts from glass cases in the middle of a pandemic and I am floored at how life has not changed even a tiny bit for many young people with young kids 😞 Let there be information put out that kids and people under 30 years old are not impervious to COVID-19.

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Just now, mathnerd said:

What I understand is that young people being affected by this virus is a new trend that they are seeing and they want us to be aware of it. When it was spreading in China, there were no child casualties. In california, there were several local cases through community spread when my son had to attend an event with several hundred kids in the first week of March (mandatory for his sport activity) and I consoled myself with the fact that kids would be spared even if he got it, because that is what we knew then, from China. We have zero information from Iran which is another country devastated by this tragedy. So, we can assume that young people escaped death from this virus there as well.

This virus has mutated since it reached other continents and perhaps it acts differently than it did in bats and the people in Chinese provinces. It is possibly a new trend with the virus. I see parents bringing toddlers to Safeway (grocery chain) and letting them pick freshly baked donuts from glass cases in the middle of a pandemic and I am floored at how life has not changed even a tiny bit for many young people with young kids 😞 Let there be information put out that kids and people under 30 years old are not impervious to COVID-19.

 

But again, the rates for kids are now still extremely small (thankfully). One or two kids is not a trend. Nobody is finding high rates for kids. 

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29 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I hope you’re right.  The flip side to that is people here are avoiding going to a hospital or doctor and things like breast cancer screening are being cancelled.  Dentist preventative work is being cancelled.  There may be an increase in deaths due to people being too scared to seek preventative care.  

And 911 centers are being overwhelmed in hard-hit areas. 

I would guess we will come out with more deaths than last year by a significant amount. But again, only time will tell. This is just me attempting to tell the future ;-). 

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1 hour ago, Laurie said:

At the beginning when the first patient in our area made the news, we were told that our risk was very low.  And the local officials seemed to be more concerned with stigma rather than spread of the disease.  Now, we're basically prisoners in our homes.  

And originally we were told that healthy people didn't need to wear masks, but now the same health officials are re-thinking that.  Yes, a mask might be a good idea, but not the kind that medical workers wear,  just something homemade.  ( I don't sew but I have a partial box of N95's.  It looks like I have to decide if I want to wear one to the grocery store to try to avoid the virus or wear something much less effective like a bandana so that I appear to be a good citizen to my fellow shoppers.)  

https://komonews.com/news/coronavirus/should-you-wear-a-mask-heres-what-a-uw-epidemiologist-says

You could wear a thin bandana or thin cloth mask over your mask.

Edited by ElizabethB
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18 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Standoff in Perth

https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-01/coronavirus-cruise-ship-artania-refusing-to-leave-fremantle-port/12110206?pfmredir=sm

border force has requested a cruise ship to leave and they have refused.  
 

Read the article you linked.  That is going to make Florida authorities and the public more wary of Holland America 

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/tourism-cruises/article241647566.html

“Rep. Chip LaMarca, who represents parts of Broward County, said he agrees the ship needs a plan to treat sick passengers, but that Port Everglades should not be the only solution offered.

“I agree with Gov. Ron DeSantis that medical care should be sent out to the ship,” he wrote in a statement. “I’m all in to help get this done with whatever assets are needed to make this happen.” 

He suggested the ship dock in U.S. Naval Ports in “much less populated communities.” 

“Holland America made the reckless decision to begin their voyage knowing that we were in a global pandemic,” he wrote in a statement. “I do not believe that Holland America’s vessels should be granted access to any American port until we have clear and accurate information.””

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1 minute ago, Arcadia said:

Read the article you linked.  That is going to make Florida authorities and the public more wary of Holland America 

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/tourism-cruises/article241647566.html

“Rep. Chip LaMarca, who represents parts of Broward County, said he agrees the ship needs a plan to treat sick passengers, but that Port Everglades should not be the only solution offered.

“I agree with Gov. Ron DeSantis that medical care should be sent out to the ship,” he wrote in a statement. “I’m all in to help get this done with whatever assets are needed to make this happen.” 

He suggested the ship dock in U.S. Naval Ports in “much less populated communities.” 

“Holland America made the reckless decision to begin their voyage knowing that we were in a global pandemic,” he wrote in a statement. “I do not believe that Holland America’s vessels should be granted access to any American port until we have clear and accurate information.””

Yep.  I feel terrible on one hand that my country is treating people that way but the cruise lines need to take some accountability for their decisions as well.  Cruise ships have been a huge problem.   I was glad they did end up providing medical care to the passengers they could.  

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Melbourne wharfies stood down after refusing to unload Chinese ship

Ship from China carrying toilet paper, other essentials is sitting fully laden on Melbourne's docks with wharfies refusing to unload due to coronavirus fears.

A ship from China carrying toilet paper, surgical masks and tinned food is sitting fully laden on Melbourne's docks with wharfies refusing to unload the cargo due to fears they could catch coronavirus.

In the largest dispute to hit the Port of Melbourne since the COVID-19 outbreak, more than 60 dock workers have been stood down by stevedores DP World in the past 24 hours over their refusal to unload the Xin Da Lian, which left a Taiwanese port less than 14 days ago.

The ship sailed from mainland China on March 17, continued on to Koashiung in Taiwan and then headed to Melbourne two days later.

The Xin Da Lian docked in Melbourne at Swanson Dock on Tuesday. A group of wharfies refused to unload the cargo on Tuesday night as the ship had arrived before the end of the 14-day coronavirus quarantine period.

Twenty two workers were stood down amid the stand-off between the Maritime Union of Australia and the stevedore on Tuesday and another 40 were stood down on Wednesday.

DP World argued the Australian Border Force deemed the vessel compliant and the 14-day rule only applies to ships from mainland China, the Republic of Korea, Italy and Iran.

The company said chemicals for soap and detergent manufacturing, medical supplies, surgical masks, gloves surgical gowns, lab coats and hair nets are aboard the ship now sitting idle at the port. Tinned foods for supermarkets and whitegoods were also being transported.

DP World's chief operating officer Andrew Adam said the vessel had been cleared to berth at DP World by the Australian Border Force and the Department of Agriculture, Water and the Environment’s Biosecurity.

“The directions are very clear, and we don’t make the rules, these are defined by Australian Border Force. Any crew members aboard a vessel that has been to mainland China, must have been at sea for 14 days before they are allowed to dock in Australia," Mr Adam said.

"The vessel left Shanghai in China on March 17 and arrived in Melbourne on March 31. It has been out of sea for 14 days. The union is not allowed to unilaterally declare a vessel unsafe: they are not allowed to create their own set of rules.”

But Warren Smith, the union's assistant national secretary, said all vessels should be quarantined for a 14-day period if they arrive from an overseas port and it was wrong to stand down workers who were trying to prevent the spread of the virus.

"It is ridiculous that these workers have been stood down and had their livelihoods threatened for standing up and doing the right thing," Mr Smith said.

"Waterside workers need to be protected to the absolute maximum extent possible so the supply chains into the supermarkets can be maintained ... the workers are simply saying we want some protections here."

The Australian Border Force has been approached for comment.

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We have been told for ages that toilet paper shortages were purely due to panic buying and hoarding because we have local manufacturing.  I was skeptical and this seems to indicate that we do import toilet paper and that’s probably contributing to the shortage.

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3 hours ago, square_25 said:

 

But it's extremely uncommon. What is the point of raising awareness for something less likely to kill your kid than the flu? Or then being in a car? (Again, correct me if I'm wrong.) 

I am guessing it is to get people to keep kids from playdates, etc because even though they are low risk of death, they can spread it to others. 

And peopel have it stuck in their head that this disease hits mostly 70 yrs and up. It doesn't. A good portion of hospitalized people are under 40. 

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1 minute ago, Ktgrok said:

I am guessing it is to get people to keep kids from playdates, etc because even though they are low risk of death, they can spread it to others. 

And peopel have it stuck in their head that this disease hits mostly 70 yrs and up. It doesn't. A good portion of hospitalized people are under 40. 

 

Yeah, I would absolutely agree with that messaging. I think everyone 30 and up is already somewhat at risk. So in fact, the parents are NOT invincible. Most people aren't. It's just the kids that seem to thankfully be mostly spared. So far. 

(I'm really hoping this is true, because it's my silver lining in all this. And so far, I haven't seen any data contradicting it, only individual human interest stories.) 

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@Ausmumof3@Pen@mathnerd (personal interest story)

🇮🇹 https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/world/coronavirus-covid-19-italy-chinese-12596712

“FLORENCE: In the storm of infection and death sweeping Italy, one big community stands out to health officials as remarkably unscathed - the 50,000 ethnic Chinese who live in the town of Prato.

Two months ago, the country's Chinese residents were the target of what Amnesty International described as shameful discrimination, the butt of insults and violent attack by people who feared they would spread the coronavirus through Italy.

But in the Tuscan town of Prato, home to Italy's biggest single Chinese community, the opposite has been true. Once scapegoats, they are now held up by authorities as a model for early, strict adoption of infection-control measures.

"We Italians feared that the Chinese of Prato were to be the problem. Instead, they did much better than us," said Renzo Berti, top state health official for the area, which includes Florence.

"Among Chinese residents in Prato there isn't even one case of COVID contagion," he said, referring to COVID-19, which has killed almost 12,000 people in Italy, more than in any other country.

Ethnic Chinese make up about a quarter of Prato's population, but Berti credits them with bringing down the entire town's infection rate to almost half the Italian average - 62 cases per 100,000 inhabitants versus 115 for the country.

Prato's Chinese community, built originally around the textile industry, went into lockdown from the end of January, three weeks before Italy's first recorded infection.

Many were returning from new year holidays in China, the then epicentre.

They knew what was coming and spread the word: stay home.

So as Italians headed to the ski slopes and crowded into cafes and bars as normal, the Chinese inhabitants of Prato had seemingly disappeared. Its streets, still festooned with Chinese New Year decorations, were semi-deserted, shops shuttered.

There is some anecdotal evidence that Chinese people elsewhere in Italy took similar precautions, though national data on infection rates among the community is unavailable. The health ministry did not respond to an email seeking comment.

Milan restaurateur Francesco Wu, a representative of Italian business lobby Confcommercio, said he urged Italian counterparts in February to shut down their businesses, as he had done.

"Most of them looked at me like a Cassandra," he said. "No one could believe it was happening here ... Now Troy is burning and we are all locked inside."

"ITALIAN FRIENDS LOOKED AT ME ODDLY"

When Chinese-born businessman Luca Zhou flew home from China on Feb 4 to rejoin his wife and 28-year-old son in Prato, he put himself straight into quarantine in his bedroom for 14 days, separated from his wife and son.

"We had seen what was happening in China and we were afraid for ourselves, our families and our friends," said the 56-year-old, who has a business exporting Italian wine to China.

After emerging from his self-quarantine, he ventured outside in mask and gloves. He said the few other Chinese on the streets also wore them, anxious not to spread the virus to others.

"My Italian friends looked at me oddly. I tried many times to explain to them that they should wear them ... but they didn't understand," Luca said.

"When I came back to Prato, no Italian authority told me anything. We did it all by ourselves. If we had not done it, we would all be infected, Chinese and Italians."

Italy was one of the first nations to cut air links with China, on Jan 31, though many of its Chinese residents found their way home via third countries. On Feb 8, almost a month before closing all schools, it offered students returning from holidays in China the right to stop attending classes.

"In Prato, there was a boom in take-up," said local health director Berti, saying families had been obliged to contact his authority if they wanted to pursue this option. It was then that he began to realise how differently the Chinese were behaving.

More than 360 families, or around 1,300 people, registered as having put themselves into self-isolation and also signed up to his authority's health surveillance scheme, which monitored symptoms remotely and communicated with them in Chinese.

As Italian infections began to take off in late February and early March, some families, many of whom retain Chinese citizenship, even began sending children to relatives in China, alarmed at the attitude and behaviour of Italians around them.

Another who went into self-isolation after returning home from China was 23-year-old university student Chiara Zheng.

"I was conscious of the gravity of the situation. I felt a duty to do it for other people and those close to me."”

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1 minute ago, Arcadia said:

@Ausmumof3@Pen@mathnerd (personal interest story)

🇮🇹 https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/world/coronavirus-covid-19-italy-chinese-12596712

“FLORENCE: In the storm of infection and death sweeping Italy, one big community stands out to health officials as remarkably unscathed - the 50,000 ethnic Chinese who live in the town of Prato.

Two months ago, the country's Chinese residents were the target of what Amnesty International described as shameful discrimination, the butt of insults and violent attack by people who feared they would spread the coronavirus through Italy.

But in the Tuscan town of Prato, home to Italy's biggest single Chinese community, the opposite has been true. Once scapegoats, they are now held up by authorities as a model for early, strict adoption of infection-control measures.

"We Italians feared that the Chinese of Prato were to be the problem. Instead, they did much better than us," said Renzo Berti, top state health official for the area, which includes Florence.

"Among Chinese residents in Prato there isn't even one case of COVID contagion," he said, referring to COVID-19, which has killed almost 12,000 people in Italy, more than in any other country.

Ethnic Chinese make up about a quarter of Prato's population, but Berti credits them with bringing down the entire town's infection rate to almost half the Italian average - 62 cases per 100,000 inhabitants versus 115 for the country.

Prato's Chinese community, built originally around the textile industry, went into lockdown from the end of January, three weeks before Italy's first recorded infection.

Many were returning from new year holidays in China, the then epicentre.

They knew what was coming and spread the word: stay home.

So as Italians headed to the ski slopes and crowded into cafes and bars as normal, the Chinese inhabitants of Prato had seemingly disappeared. Its streets, still festooned with Chinese New Year decorations, were semi-deserted, shops shuttered.

There is some anecdotal evidence that Chinese people elsewhere in Italy took similar precautions, though national data on infection rates among the community is unavailable. The health ministry did not respond to an email seeking comment.

Milan restaurateur Francesco Wu, a representative of Italian business lobby Confcommercio, said he urged Italian counterparts in February to shut down their businesses, as he had done.

"Most of them looked at me like a Cassandra," he said. "No one could believe it was happening here ... Now Troy is burning and we are all locked inside."

"ITALIAN FRIENDS LOOKED AT ME ODDLY"

When Chinese-born businessman Luca Zhou flew home from China on Feb 4 to rejoin his wife and 28-year-old son in Prato, he put himself straight into quarantine in his bedroom for 14 days, separated from his wife and son.

"We had seen what was happening in China and we were afraid for ourselves, our families and our friends," said the 56-year-old, who has a business exporting Italian wine to China.

After emerging from his self-quarantine, he ventured outside in mask and gloves. He said the few other Chinese on the streets also wore them, anxious not to spread the virus to others.

"My Italian friends looked at me oddly. I tried many times to explain to them that they should wear them ... but they didn't understand," Luca said.

"When I came back to Prato, no Italian authority told me anything. We did it all by ourselves. If we had not done it, we would all be infected, Chinese and Italians."

Italy was one of the first nations to cut air links with China, on Jan 31, though many of its Chinese residents found their way home via third countries. On Feb 8, almost a month before closing all schools, it offered students returning from holidays in China the right to stop attending classes.

"In Prato, there was a boom in take-up," said local health director Berti, saying families had been obliged to contact his authority if they wanted to pursue this option. It was then that he began to realise how differently the Chinese were behaving.

More than 360 families, or around 1,300 people, registered as having put themselves into self-isolation and also signed up to his authority's health surveillance scheme, which monitored symptoms remotely and communicated with them in Chinese.

As Italian infections began to take off in late February and early March, some families, many of whom retain Chinese citizenship, even began sending children to relatives in China, alarmed at the attitude and behaviour of Italians around them.

Another who went into self-isolation after returning home from China was 23-year-old university student Chiara Zheng.

"I was conscious of the gravity of the situation. I felt a duty to do it for other people and those close to me."”

Yes, Chinese people here seem to have been advocating for closures and can’t believe people not wearing masks etc.  I think they probably had more direct info as to what was really happening. 

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3 hours ago, square_25 said:

 

But it's extremely uncommon. What is the point of raising awareness for something less likely to kill your kid than the flu? Or then being in a car? (Again, correct me if I'm wrong.) 

 

Because it really sucks when your kid dies because you neglected some little thing that you could've done, that shouldn't have mattered but did this time.

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20 minutes ago, square_25 said:

 

Yeah, I would absolutely agree with that messaging. I think everyone 30 and up is already somewhat at risk. So in fact, the parents are NOT invincible. Most people aren't. It's just the kids that seem to thankfully be mostly spared. So far. 

(I'm really hoping this is true, because it's my silver lining in all this. And so far, I haven't seen any data contradicting it, only individual human interest stories.) 

I think Italian data is better than Chinese data in this respect because from what I understand the Chinese culture around protecting the kids is really strong, whereas here schools are the last things to close.  We can’t expect the same outcome without the same behaviour.  I have no idea about Iran I have seen anecdotal reports of 20 something’s but not younger kids.  And I agree, it’s definitely the silver lining.

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Just now, Rosie_0801 said:

 

Because it really sucks when your kid dies because you neglected some little thing that you could've done, that shouldn't have mattered but did this time.

 

But anything you do is going to do that. Any of these extremely unlikely kid deaths will involve something you did you shouldn't have mattered but did. It doesn't make sense as risk assessment to focus on the unlikely events. 

Look, can someone tell me whether coronavirus is more dangerous than the flu for a kid? What is the danger level comparable to? 

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Just now, Ausmumof3 said:

I think Italian data is better than Chinese data in this respect because from what I understand the Chinese culture around protecting the kids is really strong, whereas here schools are the last things to close.  We can’t expect the same outcome without the same behaviour.  I have no idea about Iran I have seen anecdotal reports of 20 something’s but not younger kids.  And I agree, it’s definitely the silver lining.

And I don't believe the Chinese data anyway ;-). 

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@Stella @Rosie @Melissa in Australia @LMD
 

https://amp.smh.com.au/national/former-chinese-military-man-behind-export-of-tonnes-of-medical-supplies-20200330-p54f8a.html?__twitter_impression=true
 

article re export and import to China of medical supplies etc.  Kind of a mix of shady and decent behaviour.  Mostly I’m posting because of the end of the article it mentions the guy behind organising a lot of this is looking at food exports adding to my general concern about the potential for food price rises.

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3 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

 

Because it really sucks when your kid dies because you neglected some little thing that you could've done, that shouldn't have mattered but did this time.

Hugs and love, Rosie 😞

I’m so glad this isn’t hitting kids hard because I don’t know how I’d get through losing two children in a year.  I’m sure I would, but who knows how.

I do think it’s critical that strong messaging at this stage of the spread convey that everyone, including children, need to stay out of public and avoid contact with non family members.  Full stop.  I’m just wary of the articles focusing on kids and not providing context to help people be wary but also fully informed of the numbers as they stand and the trends we have seen.

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1 minute ago, Arctic Mama said:

Hugs and love, Rosie 😞

I’m so glad this isn’t hitting kids hard because I don’t know how I’d get through losing two children in a year.  I’m sure I would, but who knows how.

I do think it’s critical that strong messaging at this stage of the spread convey that everyone, including children, need to stay out of public and avoid contact with non family members.  Full stop.  I’m just wary of the articles focusing on kids and not providing context to help people be wary but also fully informed of the numbers as they stand and the trends we have seen.

 

That's exactly right. I've definitely seen people on this forum get the impression that, because of these articles, the rates for kids in the US are different than they were elsewhere. That might happen at some point, if the virus mutates, but it hasn't happened yet. And I think we should encourage the social responsibility without destroying this silver lining. People panicking isn't a good thing. 

On the other hand, I do want people not to organize any (non-virtual) playdates. Behave, people!! Argh. 

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9 minutes ago, square_25 said:

 

But anything you do is going to do that. Any of these extremely unlikely kid deaths will involve something you did you shouldn't have mattered but did. It doesn't make sense as risk assessment to focus on the unlikely events. 

Look, can someone tell me whether coronavirus is more dangerous than the flu for a kid? What is the danger level comparable to? 

 

The fewer parents crying "why didn't anyone tell me?" the better.

How can anyone provide numbers for whether this coronavirus is more dangerous than any of the enormous numbers of flu virus that go around? No one knows the mortality rates until afterwards.

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I have mixed feelings about the overemphasis on the death of previously healthy young individuals. On one hand, I feel like there's a message that somehow those lives are more valuable or worthy of protection, whereas the loss of a young person with a health condition or of an older person isn't so bad. And on the other hand, I feel as though people don't listen until it hits home, and anything that keeps people at home and helps us slow this down is a very good thing in my mind. 

 

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14 minutes ago, square_25 said:

 

But anything you do is going to do that. Any of these extremely unlikely kid deaths will involve something you did you shouldn't have mattered but did. It doesn't make sense as risk assessment to focus on the unlikely events. 

Look, can someone tell me whether coronavirus is more dangerous than the flu for a kid? What is the danger level comparable to? 

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/2020/03/these-underlying-conditions-make-coronavirus-more-severe-and-they-are-surprisingly-common/
 

this is from 10th of March so somewhat outdated.  It does show more deadly than flu for the 10-19 age group but no deaths in the under 9.  I guess the issue is because there’s so few in that age for both one death either way makes an apparent massive difference.

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8 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

Hugs and love, Rosie 😞

I’m so glad this isn’t hitting kids hard because I don’t know how I’d get through losing two children in a year.  I’m sure I would, but who knows how.

I do think it’s critical that strong messaging at this stage of the spread convey that everyone, including children, need to stay out of public and avoid contact with non family members.  Full stop.  I’m just wary of the articles focusing on kids and not providing context to help people be wary but also fully informed of the numbers as they stand and the trends we have seen.

 

I have no control over whether dd lives or not. Health decisions are made entirely by her custodials and if they want to send her to school with sick kids, that's what they do.

(Schools are shut for the holidays, atm, but they kept sending her until the last day of term, which was a good fortnight after I'd have pulled her out, and I daresay they'll send her the minute schools open again.)

So, to the bolded, yeah. I'm with ya.

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1 minute ago, Rosie_0801 said:

 

The fewer parents crying "why didn't anyone tell me?" the better.

How can anyone provide numbers for whether this coronavirus is more dangerous than any of the enormous numbers of flu virus that go around? No one knows the mortality rates until afterwards.

We have lots of numbers on this already. We've been estimating things for a while. 

A big problem with people's decision-making is that instead of thinking about whether something is one in a million or one in a thousand, they think about how they'd feel if they (or their child) were "that one." And that leads to irrational decision-making. But that's another rant. 

Anyway, I think we all agree no one should be having playdates. But I, for one, am glad that the mortality rate for kids doesn't look high. I just am. And I want other people to be glad of that, too, even as they STAY THE HECK AT HOME. 

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3 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/2020/03/these-underlying-conditions-make-coronavirus-more-severe-and-they-are-surprisingly-common/
 

this is from 10th of March so somewhat outdated.  It does show more deadly than flu for the 10-19 age group but no deaths in the under 9.  I guess the issue is because there’s so few in that age for both one death either way makes an apparent massive difference.

Thank you, that's helpful. We'll need more data on how many kids were asymptomatic, of course, but if this is more or less correct, than it's MUCH worse than the flu for at least older kids and teens, and I retract my objections. 

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6 minutes ago, square_25 said:

We have lots of numbers on this already. We've been estimating things for a while. 

A big problem with people's decision-making is that instead of thinking about whether something is one in a million or one in a thousand, they think about how they'd feel if they (or their child) were "that one." And that leads to irrational decision-making. But that's another rant. 

 

And not really an appropriate one when in the company of people with dead kids.

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26 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

 

Because it really sucks when your kid dies because you neglected some little thing that you could've done, that shouldn't have mattered but did this time.

((((((((Rosie)))))))))))

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26 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

 

Because it really sucks when your kid dies because you neglected some little thing that you could've done, that shouldn't have mattered but did this time.

Oh, Rosie. So true and so hard to read. Hugs.

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Please you guys, I'm not looking for sympathy.

And I'm not the only one around here with these problems. ❤️ to everybody. 

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For everyone crowing about the feds needing to be the entity to order things to dole out at will,  no worries they are. Our county ordered ventilators before other government entities did because of wanting to take care of its residents and has now been told they're not coming, they're going to the feds instead. So, our county tried to be proactive but will likely see nothing from it. Since we're not a huge population center it's extremely likely that our needs will not be seen as important as say L.A.s. (I don't blame the feds at all and don't think it's their responsibility to provide us with the equipment.)

So far, outcomes in this county have been good, and I hope that continues, especially with this news. 

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11 minutes ago, StellaM said:

 

😞

On the plus side, numbers at school dropped so fast - I think we're up to 93% absent in NSW - that they became much less risky environments for the 7%.

Hopefully this holds true for VIC when the schools go back.

 

We just stepped up to level 3 lockdown until the end of the holidays (14/4) I would be very surprised if the schools go straight back - at least for most students. 

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37 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

@Stella @Rosie @Melissa in Australia @LMD
 

https://amp.smh.com.au/national/former-chinese-military-man-behind-export-of-tonnes-of-medical-supplies-20200330-p54f8a.html?__twitter_impression=true
 

article re export and import to China of medical supplies etc.  Kind of a mix of shady and decent behaviour.  Mostly I’m posting because of the end of the article it mentions the guy behind organising a lot of this is looking at food exports adding to my general concern about the potential for food price rises.

Yes, honestly the supply chain issue is the thing that made us first start to stock up. Even simple things like wrappers/packing not being imported affect the ability to move product.

On the plus side, lots of farmers are opening farm gate sales around here, and the bartering economy is alive and well!

Edited by LMD
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Just now, square_25 said:

@Rosie_0801: I'm so sorry. I see I've been insensitive, since I didn't know the story :-(. My sincerest apologies. 

 

No apology required. I just prodded because you were heading towards territory that belongs in a different thread with a trigger warning.

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14 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

And not really an appropriate one when in the company of people with dead kids.

 

Again, I'm sorry :-(. I apologize for putting my foot in it. I'm still kind of new on here and I don't know everyone's background. 

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42 minutes ago, square_25 said:

 

But anything you do is going to do that. Any of these extremely unlikely kid deaths will involve something you did you shouldn't have mattered but did. It doesn't make sense as risk assessment to focus on the unlikely events. 

Look, can someone tell me whether coronavirus is more dangerous than the flu for a kid? What is the danger level comparable to? 

 

You are sounding about this aspect (danger for children) like people were sounding mid January about CV19 in general.  

“Pooh, Pooh, it’s no big deal”, “no worse than the common flu” etc. 

personally, I would see it as either inaccurate data out of China, or very likely that the virus mutated and is now far more deadly for kids

Edited by Pen
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Just now, Pen said:

 

You are sounding about this aspect (danger for children) like people were sounding mid January about CV19 in general.  

“Pooh, Pooh, it’s no big deal”, “no worse than the common flu” etc. 

 

Well, I've taken that back. It seems much worse than the flu for a kid, so I am officially retreating :-). I'm nothing if not swayed by data. 

I'm still glad it's not hitting kids disproportionately hard, though. 

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Just now, square_25 said:

 

Again, I'm sorry :-(. I apologize for putting my foot in it. I'm still kind of new on here and I don't know everyone's background. 

 

Really, no apology required. Nobody on here is going to remember everyone's background. There are too many of us! Everyone has problems and those of us with this particular one know we're not the only ones in the world.

You're fine. ❤️

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1 minute ago, Rosie_0801 said:

 

Really, no apology required. Nobody on here is going to remember everyone's background. There are too many of us! Everyone has problems and those of us with this particular one know we're not the only ones in the world.

You're fine. ❤️

Thank you :-). I do think of this in a community, and in a community, it's important to be mindful of where people are coming from, as opposed to going off on abstract rants... 

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Bno:

Over the past 24 hours, the U.S. reported 24,612 new cases of coronavirus and 901 new deaths, raising the total to 188,544 cases and 4,039 dead
 

(sorry to drop that in the middle of the conversation but I feel like it’s too important not to? )

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I saved this from another thread here, and now I don’t remember who posted it. 

 I thought it illustrated very well that the threat from this virus isn’t just death, the hospitalization rate is so much worse than the flu.  Especially when I think that many of those hospitalizations could be deaths with no medical treatment, which is what we could be facing if the hospitals get overwhelmed.  Even under 18 is a 10% hospitalization rate. 

image.png

Edited by Cnew02
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42 minutes ago, square_25 said:

 

That's exactly right. I've definitely seen people on this forum get the impression that, because of these articles, the rates for kids in the US are different than they were elsewhere. That might happen at some point, if the virus mutates, but it hasn't happened yet. And I think we should encourage the social responsibility without destroying this silver lining. People panicking isn't a good thing. 

On the other hand, I do want people not to organize any (non-virtual) playdates. Behave, people!! Argh. 

You get rate data from up to date graphs with rate data. You get information that the youngest European so far has died from a news story about that. They are two different things. They tell us different things and I would not have either of them censored. 

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2 minutes ago, Cnew02 said:

I saved this from another thread here, and now I don’t remember who posted it. 

 I thought it illustrated very well that the threat from this virus isn’t just death, the hospitalization rate is so much worse than the flu.  Especially when I think that many of those hospitalizations could be deaths with no medical treatment, which is what we could be facing if the hospitals get overwhelmed.  Even under 18 is a 10% hospitalization rate. 

image.png

 

I would guess these are overestimated, since most people don't come in to get tested... however, that's still very high :-(. 

 

 

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That's great that NYC is including the numbers hospitalized.  Our county is posting numbers of cases, but we aren't getting info on how many are hospitalized.  I'd like to know that, as well.

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