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I didn’t see it posted but the German Finance minister from the state of Hesse apparently committed suicide last night.  Apologies if it was already posted I haven’t had time to catch up yet.  Woke up and checked my phone at 2am and that kinda sabotaged sleep

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DS got home 3 hours ago!  ❤️❤️

That's not a blanket right.  If my religion required human sacrifice, I can't practice it.  If my religion required sexual assault, I can't practice it. Freedom of religion isn't a blanket right

Update-  my youngest is not only short of breath, coughing, dizzy, nausaues, and with headache-  she is also confused.  I called our doctor and talked with him and she is going to be going to the ER.

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1 hour ago, DoraBora said:

I reported something the president said.  He is extending the "Stop the Spread" campaign through the end of April.  I posted it because people were worried about his hopes that we could open things up by Easter.  

Somehow I doubt my post broke any rules.

Quoting myself to add:  I didn't intend the above to sound smug.  (Sigh)  I'm sorry.  This is such a tense time!

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1 hour ago, Ausmumof3 said:

They had much more significant lock downs than we do with 14 day quarantine for anyone exiting or leaving the city.  And in case we’re in doubt about quarantine in Shanghai right now foreign journalist that’s in quarantine had a magnetic alarm on his door that goes off if he leaves.  They deported an Australian Chinese Citizen for trying to go for a run.  They are taking it beyond seriously.  The reduced measures in place now resemble our measures 

Or maybe they aren't reporting... 

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6 minutes ago, square_25 said:

Or maybe they aren't reporting... 

I one hundred percent believe there’s some of that but the bbc reported guy reckons there’s not widespread flooding of hospitals etc.  Which doesn’t mean there aren’t isolated unreported cases but it does mean there’s not a chaotic out of control situation reflecting it running rampant.  I think that they would probably sacrifice other areas to protect Beijing?

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Just now, Ausmumof3 said:

I one hundred percent believe there’s some of that but the bbc reported guy reckons there’s not widespread flooding of hospitals etc.  Which doesn’t mean there aren’t isolated unreported cases but it does mean there’s not a chaotic out of control situation reflecting it running rampant.  I think that they would probably sacrifice other areas to protect Beijing?

Yes, I'd say that's logical. 

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1 hour ago, matrips said:

Exactly.  And I think their misinformation played into how this was handled here originally. I mean all of China and only 3000 deaths?.  That didn’t seem to warrant shutting our entire country down.  I think once folks saw the numbers in Italy though...

I agree but I still don’t know why world leaders weren’t looking at what they were doing and not what they were saying.  I mean the widespread massive lockdowns and hospital building programs should have told us something.  China might have been fudging stuff,  Who might have backed them up but when we could see what was actually happening on the ground that seems like it should have been a wake up call that was ignored.

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3 hours ago, CuriousMomof3 said:

I wonder if some of the difference on feelings about crossing state lines has to do with where in the country someone lives.  I live in an area where state lines are very close together.  When I was working, I crossed a state line every day. On a typical week in the winter, last winter, members of our household would be in four different states, because we lived in one, had a standing medical/therapy appointment in another, and kids had after school activities in two others.  One of the family members who is picking up groceries and dropping them off at our house, while we are self isolating, lives in another state.  The nearest Walmart to my house is in another state.   If I had to take one of my kids to the ER with suspected COVID, I'd cross a state line, because the two nearest Children's hospitals are in two different states.  So, in my mind, closing state lines seems like an enormous step.  

On the other hand, if you live smack dab in the middle of state the size of Iowa or Texas, you might go for months without crossing a state line.  

 

2 hours ago, square_25 said:

 

It's also a lot harder to close state borders as opposed to country borders. How would you even enforce it? And what do you do with the fact that most states now have a hot zone? How big an area do you quarantine? Do you send in the military to patrol state borders? Is this even constitutional? Can you ensure that supplies can cross the lines? There are a lot of questions. 

I think the travel advisory is a good idea, anyway. I just wonder if there are better ways to spend energy than closing state borders or quarantining. Especially since most places are already locked down and very few people are flying as is. 

But again, I'm not vehemently against, except insofar that it seems like it'll take more energy than it's worth. 

 

I live right by a state border, too.  Less than 4 miles from my door to the border.  My in-law’s house used to be on the street that WAS the border.  If they stepped into the grass across the street from their house, they were in another state.  We pop back and forth across the border constantly.  My dh works in the bordering state, my kids’ orthodontist is in the bordering state, etc.  It’s all just “local” stuff to us. 

I don’t think state borders really mean anything to the virus.  It’ll be perfectly happy straddling a state line, or it’ll be happy to be smack in the middle of a state.  

A better idea would be to find a way to surround an area of outbreaks—some sort of X-mile radius around the center of it.  

But maybe legally, that’s too much of a hassle.  

Edited by Garga
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Just now, Garga said:

A better idea would be to find a way to surround an area of outbreaks—some sort of X-mile radius around the center of it.  

 

Yeah, that's kinda what they tried to do in Westchester -- they didn't prevent people from leaving, but they had more rigid rules there than elsewhere. It sort of worked, except it wound up spreading all over anyway. 

The thing I wonder about is whether we'd be able to do this effectively given the number of outbreaks and the lack of testing. It's obviously a good idea at the early stages, though. 

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Aus - ABC

“As we mentioned earlier, the ABC's medical expert Norman Swan was tested for coronavirus this morning after developing symptoms.

Dr Swan said he was now in self-isolation and to his knowledge, had not come into contact with anyone with the virus.”

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Abc - aus

Strict regulations around the manufacture of hand sanitiser have been relaxed so more businesses can make the product and meet rising demand.

  
The Federal Government says the Therapeutic Goods Administration no longer needs to approve the product if it's made with the recipes developed by the World Health Organisation.
  
Cheaper food grade alcohol can now also be used instead of the medical grade ingredient.
  
Some wineries with bushfire-damaged grapes are now using their facilities to manufacture sanitiser instead.

Edited by Ausmumof3
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I just looked up Iceland's testing program, and they are currently testing people coming in from high-risk areas, not just random people in the population. Since those are often younger travelers (as was the case in Germany), their numbers are unlikely to be better than ours -- it's not random. 

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Something I've been thinking about... we're now only off by an order of magnitude from the number of worldwide annual flu deaths. And the current global curve is emphatically exponential. So it won't take that long to match that number. (And then we'll keep going.) 

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2 hours ago, Happymomof1 said:

Hey one thing I'm wondering is how come Bejiing didn't have a surge of cases?  It is all over our big cities.  They are so crammed in there.  And if it is just the forced lockdown, then I'm guessing it will happen to them later in the year?

 

1 hour ago, Ausmumof3 said:

They had much more significant lock downs than we do with 14 day quarantine for anyone exiting or leaving the city.  

 

China has a hukou system for decades. People aren’t allowed to move to major cities to work and live easily. 

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3 hours ago, matrips said:

I think the supposition is that many of those 21 million accounts may be dead.  They said Chinese aren’t allowed to cancel their own accounts and most months the numbers grow.

Another possibility could be cancelling accounts to keep information spreading about how bad it really has been.

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I’m not sure how shutting state borders would even be possible around here.  We are right next to a state border that is a river, but there are four bridges crossing within ten miles of our house.  Just posting a couple of police officers at each state border crossing in our rural county would completely overwhelm our county’s resources.  They would have to send in state troopers or something, and that would take a lot of moving people from high-density, high-virus areas way out to rural areas lacking in the medical resources to deal with outbreaks, but also not in as much danger because of low population density and low population mobility.

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28 minutes ago, WendyAndMilo said:

Some Liberty University students that returned to the campus are now reporting symptoms🙄

I am so pissed off about this, because it's entirely predictable and only 45 minutes from where I was, and we had only one (known) local case before this.  And now it's going to be everywhere, dammit.  I hate him so much.  (I mean, I get that there are issues for stranded international students, but still, this was entirely predictable!!!  Don't send people to leave for spring break and then come back!)

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7 hours ago, calbear said:

I saw this article today questioning China's reported numbers because of the number cancelled cell phones. 

https://www.ibtimes.sg/china-hiding-covid-19-death-toll-21-million-cell-phones-disappeared-why-41580 

 

In the realm of weird info sources, my podcast ended and I flipped to online radio, at a lucky moment to pick up Coast to Coast with guest Uri Gellar (of all people🙄) include this point in his theory on what’s going on with this virus, it origins and and reporting. I didn’t really give it a second thought. I’ll check out your link. 

ETA While I personally believe China is not forthcoming with true numbers, after looking at the article you linked, I don’t think every shut down phone represents a life lost to CV. Some probably, bit too many other possible reasons to chalk them all up to that. JMO of course. 

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My town has it's first positive case.  The town still hasn't closed the parks and golf course, and last weekend the park was jammed full of people.  People have been coming down from Houston to camp and float around on the local rivers and lakes, and jam up the already packed grocery stores (we have all of *two* grocery stores).  We have 28,000 people that live in this town and our local hospital has a total of 125 beds, (not ICU beds...that is ALL the beds).  

But hey, we should focus on the positive, right? 😠

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My sister lives in NYC, in a 1 bedroom apt in Astoria with her husband (and cat), and worked in a yoga studio up until it was closed.  The day it closed and she was laid off, she and her husband (sans cat) and their friends went to the friends' family's cabin in NH.  They've been there about 10 days I guess? and plan to stay until the end of this coming week.  Then, if none of them are sick or have gotten sick, they plan to go stay with family in other states - my sister may come stay here with my mom in suburban Kansas City.  I don't 100% love this plan but to be honest, I wouldn't go back to NYC if I were her either.  They don't have money (the friends do, though) so it's not like they can just find a VRBO somewhere and wait it out for a month or two - they're living on unemployment and hope.  I don't know what they'll do about the cat.  I've told them that what I would do is fill up with gas in NH, drive to NYC, stop NOWHERE, pick up the cat while touching nothing unnecessary (which in an apt building in New York is hard of course), sanitize thoroughly when they're back in the car, and then drive here, stopping nowhere until they're well out of the city.  She doesn't want to expose my mom, who is 70 but in good health, to anything, but she has to go somewhere.  She was waffling about coming here, saying that the virus is here - well, this is true, but there are only maybe 100 official cases locally (in a metro area of 2 million), vs a much higher rate in NYC.  I think she's still in the stage of wanting to go somewhere completely safe.  Of course there is nowhere like that, and she's young and healthy to boot.

Her initial plan when it was clear NYC was going to shut down was to go camp in a tent for 2 months in NH somewhere.  so she's progressed at least somewhat.  They are hard decisions to make, though.

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1 hour ago, Arcadia said:

@mathnerd was expecting this after school closures were extended to May 1st

“#BREAKING: All nine Bay Area counties are extending orders to stay at home through May 1 to stop the spread of the coronavirus, sources confirmed Sunday. 
http://nbcbay.com/Y0DaJnY”

 

Doesn't the state order not have an end date, though? I don't see why the Bay Area would need to extend their order specifically when there is no way Newsom is letting us out before May 1.

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17 minutes ago, kdsuomi said:

 

Doesn't the state order not have an end date, though? I don't see why the Bay Area would need to extend their order specifically when there is no way Newsom is letting us out before May 1.

I guess because original order in Santa Clara county said that they will shut down until sometime in April, they do not want people to make plans based on that older news.

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1 minute ago, mathnerd said:

I guess because original order in Santa Clara county said that they will shut down until sometime in April, they do not want people to make plans based on that older news.

 

I just don't understand the need when there is a statewide order, though. It's inconsequential, I guess, but interesting.

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4 minutes ago, kdsuomi said:

 

I just don't understand the need when there is a statewide order, though. It's inconsequential, I guess, but interesting.

I thought that extending the shelter-in-place directive for Bay Area is anticipated to be announced next week though we all know that it will be extended until May 1st.

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Only six new cases in my state today.  That said I’ve heard at least two stories of people one with significant respiratory symptoms whose GPS sent them in for testing and were refused testing due to not having the right travel history.

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I can’t find a better source than the telegraph or daily mail but there is a report that Germany are looking at issuing immunity certificates to those with antibodies detected to the virus so they can get back to normal work and life.

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More theories about the origin of the virus 

https://amp.scmp.com/news/china/science/article/3077442/coronavirus-pathogen-could-have-been-spreading-humans-decades?__twitter_impression=true

May have made the jump to human hosts quite a long time ago but only recently mutated to the form that causes a level of disease that triggers a surveillance system.  I’d like to see more links etc because I realise this is pretty political right now.

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12 hours ago, Pen said:

 

We are where we are now. Too late to change the past. 

That’s true.  That’s a reason why I think Stay Home except for essentials orders would work better. 

But this arose out of whoever it was @TracyP? question  of MN being able to safely go back to business as usual in 2 weeks — if other places don’t have Stay Home orders in place and if there aren’t shut borders. The question was can MN safely be an open business as usual place.  I think that was the question.  ???

 

Oh whoa. Sorry if I gave that impression! We are not going back to business as usual for a very long time. The plan right now -

We are already at  almost 3 weeks on social distancing measures - no gatherings, no bars/ restaurants, work from home if you can. School shut shortly after.

On Friday we went to shelter in place. No non essentials.

After 2 weeks the governor is hopeful we can go back to the social distancing measures. Those will continue for a minimum of 3 weeks in his plan.

After that he hopes (and he is clear that time is not the point - preparedness is) to go to normal with caveats. Those at high risk should continue social distancing for the duration. There will be more shutdowns, however they will hopefully be more targeted. 

I apologize for not being more clear on that.

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12 minutes ago, TracyP said:

Oh whoa. Sorry if I gave that impression! We are not going back to business as usual for a very long time. The plan right now -

We are already at  almost 3 weeks on social distancing measures - no gatherings, no bars/ restaurants, work from home if you can. School shut shortly after.

On Friday we went to shelter in place. No non essentials.

After 2 weeks the governor is hopeful we can go back to the social distancing measures. Those will continue for a minimum of 3 weeks in his plan.

After that he hopes (and he is clear that time is not the point - preparedness is) to go to normal with caveats. Those at high risk should continue social distancing for the duration. There will be more shutdowns, however they will hopefully be more targeted. 

I apologize for not being more clear on that.

Are you guys going to build up hospital capacity and whatnot as well? Or is the hope that it's not necessary? 

I would guess this is an optimistic plan, but we'll see. 

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1 minute ago, square_25 said:

Are you guys going to build up hospital capacity and whatnot as well? Or is the hope that it's not necessary? 

I would guess this is an optimistic plan, but we'll see. 

Yes, one hospital has already moved to being a 90 bed icu facility devoted solely to covid. 2 more locations (hotels, irrc) are being investigated to turn into hospitals. 

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17 minutes ago, square_25 said:

Are you guys going to build up hospital capacity and whatnot as well? Or is the hope that it's not necessary? 

I would guess this is an optimistic plan, but we'll see. 

I want to add... I think my state is doing a great job getting in front of this. Only complaint, I would have liked an earlier shelter in place order. I know how beneficial that can be in the early stages. But the people weren't behind it yet. Right now, the people are behind it and they are complying. So I understand why he waited.

But even though I like what we are doing, I have no illusions that we are going to get off easy. It doesn't work that way, and I know that.

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5 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I can’t find a better source than the telegraph or daily mail but there is a report that Germany are looking at issuing immunity certificates to those with antibodies detected to the virus so they can get back to normal work and life.

This was reported in Der Spiegel.  There is talk about this, but the testing has not yet been approved.  

It would be interesting to see how this would impact human behavior.  If faced with "stay at home" for a long period of time, or get sick for 14 days with something that statistically will be mild, and then be able to go about your business, I would think some low-risk, young people would want to increase their risk of infection to get the immunity certificate.

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Just now, Bootsie said:

This was reported in Der Spiegel.  There is talk about this, but the testing has not yet been approved.  

It would be interesting to see how this would impact human behavior.  If faced with "stay at home" for a long period of time, or get sick for 14 days with something that statistically will be mild, and then be able to go about your business, I would think some low-risk, young people would want to increase their risk of infection to get the immunity certificate.

I hadn’t thought of that.  I can see several problems though.  For one thing we don’t have any evidence as to how long immunity lasts.  I guess certificate can carry an expiry date then you have to retest.  
 

I also have to say just in terms of self reflection that China’s app that gives you a green, yellow or red Health status and controls what you can do kind of sounded dystopian.  And yet this is not all that different and I’m sitting here approving it.  Maybe because it’s paper based versus digital . I do think at any other time we would see this as discriminatory but at times like this societies have to do what they can to make things work.

the other question I have is just because you have antibodies we don’t know for sure that you can’t be carrying it on some low lying way that then flares up unexpectedly.  

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6 minutes ago, Bootsie said:

This was reported in Der Spiegel.  There is talk about this, but the testing has not yet been approved.  

It would be interesting to see how this would impact human behavior.  If faced with "stay at home" for a long period of time, or get sick for 14 days with something that statistically will be mild, and then be able to go about your business, I would think some low-risk, young people would want to increase their risk of infection to get the immunity certificate.

I think you're right about that -- people would go try to catch it. 

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1 minute ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I hadn’t thought of that.  I can see several problems though.  For one thing we don’t have any evidence as to how long immunity lasts.  I guess certificate can carry an expiry date then you have to retest.  
 

I also have to say just in terms of self reflection that China’s app that gives you a green, yellow or red Health status and controls what you can do kind of sounded dystopian.  And yet this is not all that different and I’m sitting here approving it.  Maybe because it’s paper based versus digital . I do think at any other time we would see this as discriminatory but at times like this societies have to do what they can to make things work.

the other question I have is just because you have antibodies we don’t know for sure that you can’t be carrying it on some low lying way that then flares up unexpectedly.  

The report I read said that one problem is that the test has false positives (saying people have immunity when they don't), because 90% of the population has antibodies for other coronaviruses.  It did not indicate how high that false positive rate might be.

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1 minute ago, Bootsie said:

The report I read said that one problem is that the test has false positives (saying people have immunity when they don't), because 90% of the population has antibodies for other coronaviruses.  It did not indicate how high that false positive rate might be.

This seems like something that could be ironed out, hopefully. 

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If this doesn't belong here let me know, but I don't think ya'll will laugh at my question -- LOL!

Are you getting take-out these days?  Either curbside pick-up or delivery?  I didn't realize how much we ate out and, being super careful and staying in, we have only had home cooked food.  Not complaining, but wondering what your thoughts are on this?  Cold food like subs ok?  Hot foods like Olive Garden or Long Horn better?  Would the food be ok, but of course we would need to be very careful with the packaging?

What are ya'll doing?!?!?!?

😁😷😬

P.S.  While I obviously don't want my family of 4 to get this, my DH and I are the only ones here to help my elderly father (he is 10 minutes from me) and my in-laws (who are 93) are staying home.  DH, me, and  my SIL are getting all their groceries, etc.  We want to be here to help them and keep them safe.  I know so many of us are in the same boat...

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