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gardenmom5

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1 hour ago, Corraleno said:

The fact that people's lives may depend in their governor's willingness to kiss presidential ass is pretty horrifying. At least Pence seems to be taking his responsibilities seriously — Whitmer says she has an excellent working relationship with Pence, even if Trump is refusing to take her calls and telling Pence not to take them either.

People criticised WHO for doing the same thing with China

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1 hour ago, Quill said:

Yes, I expect the US to seem more erratic and not clear-cut because the US is so vast and regions can be so entirely different from one another. It would compare more clearly if you compare the US to all of Europe. 

In Maryland today, our Gov just announced an outbreak in a nursing home with 66 confirmed cases. This nursing home is in the town adjacent to mine. It’s sort of...stunning. 

I agree.  Places like the upper midwest are not going to have the same level of outbreak as places along the eastern seaboard.  I don't blame people in RI and CT for trying to stop rich NYers from escaping to their areas.  

I also heard about the nursing home.  Its in the same town as some of my family.  😞  

Edited by PrincessMommy
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https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-29/coronavirus-patients-to-be-housed-at-adelaide-holiday-park/12100604?pfmredir=sm
 

a holiday park is being used to house coronavirus patients here.  It will be for those I think who don’t require a high level of care but can’t effectively be isolated at home like students or people in shared housing.

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1 hour ago, Arcadia said:

 

  • Four Seasons Hotel on 57th Street in Manhattan: Providing their facility to serve as free housing for nurses, doctors and medical personnel currently working to respond to the coronavirus outbreak
  • Room Mate Grace Hotel: Providing their facility to serve as free housing for nurses, doctors and medical personnel currently working to respond to the coronavirus outbreak
  • Wythe Hotel: Offering free hotel rooms through April for nurses, doctors and medical personnel currently working to respond to the coronavirus outbreak

Kudos to these hotels for providing free accommodations to health care providers, so they don't have the added stress of exposing their families to the virus. ❤️ 

Edited by Corraleno
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1 hour ago, Arcadia said:

@square_25@CuriousMomof3

Saw this entry in NY’s donors list and have not heard of this company before. Learn something new from donors list. Facebook donated gallons of hand sanitizer. 

”Amneal: 20,000 bottles of Hydroxychloroquine”

https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/governor-cuomo-announces-significant-donations-help-increase-states-supply-capacity-amid

“A breakdown of initial donations is available below:

  • Goldman Sachs: 195,000 masks
  • Boll and Branch: 1,000 hospital mattresses
  • Restore Global: 150,000 coveralls
  • Facebook: 2,500 gallons of hand sanitizer
  • Rihanna Foundation: Various PPE supplies
  • Dominion Energy: Masks
  • L'Oréal: Hand sanitizer
  • SoftBank: 1.4 million N-95 masks
  • Suburban Propane: Propane services for generators and heaters
  • Wayfair: Mattresses, linens, sheets and pillows for field hospitals
  • Jet Blue: Free flights for incoming medical volunteers
  • Walmart: Use of parking lots and store facilities infrastructure
  • Niagara Bottling: 560,000 bottles of water
  • Keurig/Dr. Pepper: Coffee and beverages for volunteers working in the field
  • Four Seasons Hotel on 57th Street in Manhattan: Providing their facility to serve as free housing for nurses, doctors and medical personnel currently working to respond to the coronavirus outbreak
  • St Regis Hotel: Providing their facility for non-critical care patients or medical personnel
  • The Plaza Hotel: Providing their facility for non-critical care patients or medical personnel
  • Yotel: Providing their facility for non-critical care patients for a month
  • Room Mate Grace Hotel: Providing their facility to serve as free housing for nurses, doctors and medical personnel currently working to respond to the coronavirus outbreak
  • Wythe Hotel: Offering free hotel rooms through April for nurses, doctors and medical personnel currently working to respond to the coronavirus outbreak
  • Kelly Ripa and Mark Consuelos: $1 million
  • JUDY: 25,000 N-95 masks
  • Amneal: 20,000 bottles of Hydroxychloroquine
  • The Estée Lauder Companies: 10,000 hand sanitizer bottles (8 ounces each) per week for 4-5 weeks
  • Long Island Ambulatory Surgery Center: Ventilator
  • Uniqlo: 1.05 million masks
  • The Commission on Independent Colleges and Universities in New York: 12 ventilators and thousands of pieces of PPE
  • Corning Life Sciences: 60,000 15ml centrifuge tubes and 40,000 4ml cryovials
  • NBCUniversal: Medical supplies and PPE
  • Huawei: 10,000 N-95 masks; 20,000 isolation gowns; 50,000 medical goggles; and 10,000 gloves
  • Office of Attorney General Letitia James: 1,700 protective masks and 33,000 pairs of gloves”

And a fetish site from porn hub donated scrubs!

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@Alice@wathe@TCB

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/world/covid-19-coronavirus-hospitals-snorkel-masks-to-ease-respirator-12587072

“BRUSSELS: As hospitals face an overload of COVID-19 patients struggling to breathe, innovative medical staff are turning to snorkelling masks from sports stores to stop their lungs collapsing.

The idea started in Italy, the European country worst-hit by the coronavirus pandemic, with hospitals in other nations taking note and adding their own specific medical parts to make it work.

One such is the Erasme Hospital on the outskirts of Belgium's capital Brussels. It is attached to the city's ULB university - and through it to a private spin-off, Endo Tools Therapeutics, whose knowhow in 3D printing for medical use has proved invaluable.

"They are to be used for patients with severe respiratory problems. The aim is to avoid having to intubate the trachea of the patient and put them on a respirator," said Frederic Bonnier, a respiratory physiotherapist at the hospital who also teaches at the university.

He spearheaded the design of a custom-made valve that fits to the top of full-face masks, where the snorkel is meant to go, allowing them to connect to standard BiPAP machines that feed pressurised air into masks.

This helps prevent the collapse of alveoli, lung air sacs needed for the intake of oxygen into our bodies and the exhalation of carbon dioxide. Pneumonia brought on by COVID-19 inflames the lung membrane and fills those sacs with liquid.

'STOP-GAP SOLUTION'

In the worst-case infections, patients have to be hooked up to respirators in intensive-care units.

But respirators are in desperately short supply worldwide because of the sheer number of patients.

The snorkelling mask solution could be a stop-gap measure for patients on the brink of intensive-care treatment but for whom no beds nor respirators are available. Hospital masks for the less-intensive BiPAP (bilevel positive airway pressure) machines are also lacking.

Bonnier said that from Monday he will testing 50 of the masks on patients.

They are the same brand as those used by Italian doctors, donated by the French sportswear retailer Decathlon that has stores worldwide. The masks themselves are made in Italy.”

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7 hours ago, lewelma said:

I am starting to think that only upper and middle class people in America are going into lockdown. There are a ton of poorly paid workers serving all the people in isolation.  DH was just talking to his mom on the phone, and she said that in Ohio she can still order home delivery from restaurants and stuff from Amazon.  So you have chefs, delivery people, amazon warehouse people, and grocery store check out staff still working and serving the people who have the means to stay at home and avoid exposure.  I feel really yucky about this.

 

I have been having similar feelings about this. 🙁

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So, do you feel like there will be another run on the grocery stores when people get more deaths in their local area?  Supplies are being stocked more and more here in Central CA, but I think of what if the truckers get the virus or the grocery workers. 
We bought a lot of staples ( which we have been using)  and have only been out for some junk food a couple of times. Thinking I need another shopping trip though. 

How is shopping for food etc going in NYC?

I think people “tolerate” a certain level of crisis before they panic. Like, deaths in NYC and numbers seem still a little distant for a lot of people but several deaths in their own town would cause panic buying again. 

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14 minutes ago, redmom3 said:

So, do you feel like there will be another run on the grocery stores when people get more deaths in their local area?  Supplies are being stocked more and more here in Central CA, but I think of what if the truckers get the virus or the grocery workers. 
We bought a lot of staples ( which we have been using)  and have only been out for some junk food a couple of times. Thinking I need another shopping trip though. 

There is rationing at the supermarkets for items like poultry, milk, eggs depending on the supermarkets. So some people are buying whether they need to or not so that they have enough. Supplies here are uneven like we found my kid’s favorite dried mango snack at the second Costco we went so we bought two packs just in case. 

Trader Joe’s tend to run out of my kids’ favorite pork gyoza and Kung pao chicken even before the pandemic. So now the uncertainty with availability of certain food is now expanded to Costco, Safeway and Whole Foods. 

ETA: Santa Clara county 

Edited by Arcadia
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2 hours ago, Seasider too said:

 

I have been having similar feelings about this. 🙁

 

I feel the same way. I think only the most essential items should be ordered etc. I refuse to order on Amazon right now. We have been out of milk for days but I'm holding off (we have other nutrition).  I don't need specific items. When it is time to go as long as I can get any assortment of protein/veggies/ fiber I will find a way to cook it rather than go from store to store making crowds etc. I would love fresh milk, canned would work but whatever I won't go store to store or shop delivery from a bunch of places unless there actually isn't food.

My sons bike (his main transportation) is still stuck in Washington and I feel guilty leaving it in someone's garage but I feel more guilty making a delivery person work longer when we can survive without it right now. 

Edited by frogger
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So the Lyndoch/Barossa cluster has grown again so they are shutting down schools, childcare and osh.  Rest of the state is staying open till holidays.  They are advising against any non essential travel in or out of the area.  It’s the middle of vintage so they need to keep picking grapes but with a strong focus on hygiene and distancing.  

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Pm just did an update.  We are down to social gatherings of two people.  Stores can remain open based on necessity.  Rationale behind it according to pm is this will take six months so people need to stock up.  For example his wife has been buying jigsaws for the kids or people need to buy exercise equipment.  They are meeting about new financial measures.  

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13 hours ago, square_25 said:

How is Sweden doing better? 

Sweden has 341 cases/M

Norway has 724 cases/M

Denmark has 388 cases/M

Sweden's first case was reported Jan 30.  Norway and Denmark's first cases were not until about 3 1/2 weeks after that.  So, Sweden has had more time for this to spread, but has had proportionately less spread even though less extreme measures have been taken.  

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10 hours ago, HeighHo said:

That's a bit of propaganda.  The middle class is mostly at work in essential industries at the worksite, with re-arranged work rules and hours, or they are working out of the home as much as possible or because they are on fourteen day isolation due to symptoms or travel. 

The folks delivering Meals on Wheels and the JCC Senior/shut in meals are also middle class retirees. 

My neighbor owns his restaurant.  He is happy to provide takeout and he's rearranged the kitchen and staffing to keep as many employed as he can while observing the distancing and sanitation. Folks are ordering because they trust that his employees won't be at work sick and will continue to observe social distancing at home....and it does reduce their odds..they would encounter many more people at the grocery store than are handling the food at the restaurant.

Doctors, nurses, pharmacists, air traffic controllers, director of housing at universities, engineers running oil refineries are just some of those who are working.  

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One of my predictions did not come true, and I wish it had. Apologies to NY, but I did think they’d truly lock it down; at least the islands. It was actually my prediction *weeks ago, and had me worried about dh getting stuck the last time he went in. I can’t even remember when that was, but it’s been a while!

With so much pride being expressed for “shutting down” travel from China, I was surprised it took so long to consider blocking travel out of NY. As much as I’m adoring Cuomo these days, the insistence on letting people freely travel around the country (not JUST from NY, but especially) is really destroying whatever hope I might have had.

Locally, where we’re supposed to only go out for essentials, people are still trying to sell on the market place, find people to do non-essential home improvement jobs, and get together in small groups in the woods because “we’re still allowed to hike”. (Meanwhile, those people are essential workers who are exposed to many people every day.). I do think all of them believe that they’re following the regulations and recommendations. 

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1 hour ago, Bootsie said:

Sweden has 341 cases/M

Norway has 724 cases/M

Denmark has 388 cases/M

Sweden's first case was reported Jan 30.  Norway and Denmark's first cases were not until about 3 1/2 weeks after that.  So, Sweden has had more time for this to spread, but has had proportionately less spread even though less extreme measures have been taken.  

 

I don't think looking at cases tells you much here as I believe Sweden doesn't test unless it is a severe case (not sure about the other countries). Deaths are Sweden 105 vs. Norway 23 and Denmark 65. Per million in Sweden it is 10 vx. Norway 4 and Denmark 11. I think it is too early to tell how this will develop (though it seems obvious that Sweden will have more cases/deaths than other countries if the don't limit people meeting). Of course it could still turn out that their approach is good/better in the long run.

Edited by Twolittleboys
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1 hour ago, StellaM said:

 

There's also a six month moratorium on evictions (commercial and residential), and people over 70, over 60 with a chronic disease, and over 50 and Indigenous are advised to stay at home to the maximum degree possible.

Thanks was trying to listen while cooking dinner and the birds were screeching 

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8 hours ago, Arcadia said:

“BRUSSELS: As hospitals face an overload of COVID-19 patients struggling to breathe, innovative medical staff are turning to snorkelling masks from sports stores to stop their lungs collapsing.

I can say that since the FDA has loosened restrictions, dh has seen a lot of ingenuity from medical personnel. They’ve gone full  Macgyver and looked at what they have loads of in stock and how they can make PPE out of it. All of the ideas that have been building up all these years while they worked, they are thinking of ways to implement them. I know regulation and FDA approval is there to help protect us, but at some point it hinders good old American ingenuity. 

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25 minutes ago, Plum said:

The kids had something in early March that was crazy in its similarity to COVID19. So eery. But I don’t think it was, because neither DH nor myself caught it, and DH is immune suppressed and I have moderate/severe asthma. Both DH and I had headaches and fatigue during that time, which we took to mean our immune systems were successfully fighting whatever the kids had. That’s why I won’t put much stock in people’s claims that they had COVID19 last year. 

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4 minutes ago, square_25 said:

There are cases in every state now. There’s NO POINT in locking down NY. The cat is out of the bag. Pandora’s box has long been open.

There needs to be a national strategy and federal laws, like, yesterday. This is going to be an epic, unnecessary disaster. The longer we go on with toothless “guidance” from the national level (not to mention the misinformed reassurances that slow action), the worse it will be. 

Can you clarify what you mean here? I feel like my state is doing a fantastic job. I do not think we (in MN) need the same approach as in NY. I would love to see more guidance and stability from the federal government, but what kind of laws do you want to see enacted?

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2 hours ago, Bootsie said:

Doctors, nurses, pharmacists, air traffic controllers, director of housing at universities, engineers running oil refineries are just some of those who are working.  

Plus people keeping the water supply safe, the power on, and the farmers starting to plant their crops here in the US. Saw lots of police out and about when DH & I went for a walk. (Rural midwest. Was drizzling so no one else was out for a walk, but saw three police vehicles. We have a confirmed case in our county but are in a state that is not testing unless you are in the hospital.)

@Plum, I don't know where their data is from but CNN has a chart from a couple days ago. I like using Covidtracking.com, but they don't have a by population column. 

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2 minutes ago, square_25 said:

I actually think a nationwide shelter in place would probably make sense at this point, unfortunately. It's a very blunt instrument, but otherwise, I think every place in the US is going to go on the same curve, and we won't be able to stop places from "sparking" other places because it's all over the place. I would also like to see them take care of purchasing of all the equipment nationally and of coordinating all the labs (state and private) nationally, then start distributing serious testing so that the approach can be changed. 

 

Yep, I'll disagree. 😉 In a nutshell, I think we are way too big for this - the U.S. that is. Maybe regional shutdowns? Maybe guidelines for when to shut down? Some states do not seem to get it, at all...

 I believe we are going to be going through rolling shut downs to some extent for the next 18-24 mos. And yep, we are going to have places "sparking" other places the entire time. I don't know how to avoid that. I think the shut downs have to be localized though. 

On testing and equipment gathering, yeah I'd like to see that. Not holding my breath, though. 

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25 minutes ago, square_25 said:

I actually think a nationwide shelter in place would probably make sense at this point, unfortunately. It's a very blunt instrument, but otherwise, I think every place in the US is going to go on the same curve, and we won't be able to stop places from "sparking" other places because it's all over the place. I would also like to see them take care of purchasing of all the equipment nationally and of coordinating all the labs (state and private) nationally, then start distributing serious testing so that the approach can be changed. 

I would like to say that this feels like a last resort option and one that wouldn't need to be triggered, except for the failure of testing and the resulting failure of containment. We had a similar failure of containment here in NY, so it's not just at the national level. 

I know you're probably going to disagree with that, but I am terrified of what's going to happen if we don't do something like that. 

Of course, I don't actually think this will happen, so I'm guessing this will be a large-scale disaster. 

 

Contact White House (website contact form, phone line or both).  That may actually help Along with others who are also. 

They apparently do consider both comments in favor of closing down nationally and ones (Like from Aethylreth the Texan ) who want everything opened up. ( ETA  or from people who like TracyP want it decided local level and rolling for an extended time.)

I also signed the Hammer and the Dance Petition which is similar. 

Edited by Pen
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Cross post:

 

https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-the-hammer-and-the-dance-be9337092b56

Tomas Pueyo in Medium:

ScreenHunter_3924-Mar.-27-18.13-360x247.Summary of the article: Strong coronavirus measures today should only last a few weeks, there shouldn’t be a big peak of infections afterwards, and it can all be done for a reasonable cost to society, saving millions of lives along the way. If we don’t take these measures, tens of millions will be infected, many will die, along with anybody else that requires intensive care, because the healthcare system will have collapsed.

 

 

criticism of Hammer and Dance approach:

https://www.fiphysician.com/criticism-hammer-and-dance/

Edited 12 hours ago by Pen 
Added summary from 3quarksdaily.com. And addition of a contrary view

 

 

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2 minutes ago, square_25 said:

 

What does our size have to do with it, though? The more coordinated a response, the better. The fact that we're lucky enough to be able to order lots of people at the same time is good. If Europe COULD shut all of it down, it would be a good thing, probably. 

I'm not holding my breath on any of it, anyway. 

 

Oh, why do people want everything opened up? 😞

What is the long view? Unless we plan to shut down until we get a vaccine  - a minimum of 18 mos - we are going to have to get on with life at some point. Very, very unfortunately we have lost the opportunity to stop Covid. 

We need to slow the exponential growth, but I don't think anyone believes we are going to stop the growth. We need to get testing in place so we can keep the lid on outbreaks when they happen, that is certain. But I'm not sure what a blanket shutdown of areas with very few cases actually accomplishes in the long run.

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1 minute ago, TracyP said:

What is the long view? Unless we plan to shut down until we get a vaccine  - a minimum of 18 mos - we are going to have to get on with life at some point. Very, very unfortunately we have lost the opportunity to stop Covid. 

We need to slow the exponential growth, but I don't think anyone believes we are going to stop the growth. We need to get testing in place so we can keep the lid on outbreaks when they happen, that is certain. But I'm not sure what a blanket shutdown of areas with very few cases actually accomplishes in the long run.

 

Could you read both the article linked below, and the criticism linked and then could we discuss your question?

 

https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-the-hammer-and-the-dance-be9337092b56

Tomas Pueyo in Medium:

ScreenHunter_3924-Mar.-27-18.13-360x247.Summary of the article: Strong coronavirus measures today should only last a few weeks, there shouldn’t be a big peak of infections afterwards, and it can all be done for a reasonable cost to society, saving millions of lives along the way. If we don’t take these measures, tens of millions will be infected, many will die, along with anybody else that requires intensive care, because the healthcare system will have collapsed.

 

 

criticism of Hammer and Dance approach:

https://www.fiphysician.com/criticism-hammer-and-dance/

Edited 12 hours ago by Pen 
Added summary from 3quarksdaily.com. And addition of a contrary view
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3 hours ago, TracyP said:

That is a complete mischaracterization of some very well thought out replies on that thread. I may not agree, but geez.

 

Ok. You are right, it’s at least an oversimplification.

(ETA And yet... if that weren’t a part of it expressed by someone on another thread, how would you link what I wrote to a particular thread? )

 

We could just as well use

“so they can party on the beach” / “go to bars” college kids

”so they can hang out at the mall” teens 

 

 

 

Edited by Pen
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4 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

Could you read both the article linked below, and the criticism linked and then could we discuss your question?

 

 

I read the first when it was posted earlier in this thread. I'll try to read the other sometime. What if we took a more nuanced approach? Like what if each state needed to

1) get testing capacity to test any symptomatic person

2) increase icu capacity to 'x' level

3) gather sufficient levels of PPE to protect healthcare workers

My state is shut down until these 3 things happen - hopefully 2 weeks. I fully support this. I'm not sure why we should stay shut down until, say, Louisiana does the same. We are a thousand miles apart. It just doesn't make sense to me.

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4 minutes ago, square_25 said:

The long view? Get testing ramped up so that containment becomes feasible again. Build more hospitals and buy more ventilators and train more people who can use them, stat. Test treatment protocols. Work on an antibody test. 

It's not like this is all theoretical. I know for a fact they are doing all this in NY. I imagine they are doing it elsewhere, too. And these aren't happening at a time scale of 18 months. 

100% agree. But why does MN have to stay shut down until LA does this, for example?

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55 minutes ago, square_25 said:

I actually think a nationwide shelter in place would probably make sense at this point, unfortunately. It's a very blunt instrument, but otherwise, I think every place in the US is going to go on the same curve, and we won't be able to stop places from "sparking" other places because it's all over the place. I would also like to see them take care of purchasing of all the equipment nationally and of coordinating all the labs (state and private) nationally, then start distributing serious testing so that the approach can be changed. 

I would like to say that this feels like a last resort option and one that wouldn't need to be triggered, except for the failure of testing and the resulting failure of containment. We had a similar failure of containment here in NY, so it's not just at the national level. 

I know you're probably going to disagree with that, but I am terrified of what's going to happen if we don't do something like that. 

Of course, I don't actually think this will happen, so I'm guessing this will be a large-scale disaster. 

Agreed, on all points. 
But not the kind of wussy “shelter in place/stay at home” garbage many of us have now. ACTUAL stay on your own dang property except for medical care, and possibly limited food trips. The only other people out to be the ones doing the things to keep truly essential services working (including food to people who need it.)

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5 minutes ago, square_25 said:

But why should these be done locally in the first place? 

Also, you're going to be affected by what happens in the states near you. Maybe not LA, but if some state near you is being a problem, you're going to have a harder time than you do otherwise. It may also be harder for you to buy equipment if it's not bought on a nationwide scale. 

To be clear, I think doing this nationwide and ramping up quickly will be less disruptive to the economy overall, not more. Having to put out giant fires for 18 months (which may be where we are going) is going to be awful. 

I have to move on, the kids want to play a game 🙂. We are going to have to agree to disagree. My governor is working closely with the states around us to join forces to gather supplies and coordinate their responses to some extent. You won't convince me that the federal government could do this better.

Edited by TracyP
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1 minute ago, square_25 said:

 

I just replied to that thread, lol. I do agree with her that the long lines at HEB are a bigger problem than getting hair colored ;-). 

We had a babysitter come in for about a week after we stopped going out. It was probably not the optimal decision, but it was hard to give EVERYTHING up... so I get that perspective. 

 

I go into a city to shop, but it is a small city.  I have to think back to picture lines and crowding at Fairway market or Zabars or the like.  

However, face to face contact with a hair dresser for an extended time is likely quite high risk if either person has an easily spread respiratory virus.

And shopping could be spread out more as in Italy so that people aren’t crowded together.  

There no doubt are people getting sick from virus on surfaces to 3 days, virus wafting in air up to 3 hours, etc.  Still, faces near to faces and droplets is believed in what I have read to account for far more transmission. 

 

 

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9 minutes ago, TracyP said:

I read the first when it was posted earlier in this thread. I'll try to read the other sometime. What if we took a more nuanced approach? Like what if each state needed to

1) get testing capacity to test any symptomatic person

 

You would also need testing and public health capacity for contact tracing and testing to be in operation Afaik for a state short shut down and reopen to be successful 

9 minutes ago, TracyP said:

2) increase icu capacity to 'x' level

3) gather sufficient levels of PPE to protect healthcare workers

 

And for emergency responders and for teachers and for _____ many occupations, not just healthcare.  Or at least the ~ 40% of adult population with higher risk factors 

9 minutes ago, TracyP said:

My state is shut down until these 3 things happen - hopefully 2 weeks. I fully support this. I'm not sure why we should stay shut down until, say, Louisiana does the same. We are a thousand miles apart. It just doesn't make sense to me.

 

If you will have your state borders shut (effectively) to arrivals from other states until  21 days after all were in compliance with same types of things your state does, so already with their transmission under control for a state with very little CV19 and to take a hard quarantine and contact tracing period then to open up in itself, but not to outside, that could possibly work, I think.  But it would depend on your states being like a little self sufficient country  unto itself, I think.  No trucking supplies in from elsewhere, no Amazon, no UPS etc, bringing in cases, no tourists or business travelers  from New York or Louisiana .  Otherwise it might be like your state being Taiwan, but open to people coming in from Wuhan. 

By instead shutting all “nonessential” activities it allows for essential goods and services to move between states as an activity of risk, but for that to be to some degree balanced with far less opportunity for viral transmission internally.  

And you may be 1000 miles from New Orleans, but not so far in time and access by modern travel , nor so far from other places with problems like NY, Chicago... (what is happening in Detroit?)    

 

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25 minutes ago, square_25 said:

That's what Cuomo was saying -- that closing state borders is a logistical nightmare. What about the mail? What about supplies? This can't be done without careful planning. I can imagine it being a good idea, but it can't be spur of the moment. 

 

I am inclined to think keeping essential production and supplies chains open (with increasing PPE available for workers in those areas and Nat Guard help too if needed eg young people to do trucking instead of at risk older commercial drivers)  is better approach.

And to shut down nonessentials for time needed.

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30 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

You would also need testing and public health capacity for contact tracing and testing to be in operation Afaik for a state short shut down and reopen to be successful 

 

And for emergency responders and for teachers and for _____ many occupations, not just healthcare.  Or at least the ~ 40% of adult population with higher risk factors 

 

If you will have your state borders shut (effectively) to arrivals from other states until  21 days after all were in compliance with same types of things your state does, so already with their transmission under control for a state with very little CV19 and to take a hard quarantine and contact tracing period then to open up in itself, but not to outside, that could possibly work, I think.  But it would depend on your states being like a little self sufficient country  unto itself, I think.  No trucking supplies in from elsewhere, no Amazon, no UPS etc, bringing in cases, no tourists or business travelers  from New York or Louisiana .  Otherwise it might be like your state being Taiwan, but open to people coming in from Wuhan. 

By instead shutting all “nonessential” activities it allows for essential goods and services to move between states as an activity of risk, but for that to be to some degree balanced with far less opportunity for viral transmission internally.  

And you may be 1000 miles from New Orleans, but not so far in time and access by modern travel , nor so far from other places with problems like NY, Chicago... (what is happening in Detroit?)    

 

I can't break up quote on my phone; hopefully you can follow my replies.

Yes, and the capability to contract trace would be a part of that.

Well, teaching is online here officially until May 1 and likely for the remainder of the year. I would consider first responders to be health care providers so, yes to that. I'm not sure what PPE for "high risk" populations means in this context.

I am watching people from high risk areas come to their cabins in my area. I am so not thrilled about it... sigh. But my state isn't putting these measures in place so we can stop covid. It is putting them in place so we can slow covid. So we can identify pockets when they pop up and control them before they get out of hand. Again, the long view.

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@Jenny in Florida and all the Florida people, this news is scary 

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/world/covid19-coronavirus-zaandam-passengers-transferred-12587478

“The ship's Dutch owner Holland America said Friday four passengers had died and two more had tested positive for COVID-19.

...

Passengers showing no signs of the virus were ferried from the Zaandam to the Rotterdam on Saturday, a French tourist told AFP by telephone.

...

Panama's Maritime Affairs Minister Noriel Arauz told AFP that 401 passengers who had tested negative for COVID-19 would be allowed to leave the Zaandam.

People who were ill and those who had been in contact with them will not be transferred.

The Zaandam will now head to Fort Lauderdale in Florida, where the remaining passengers will be able to disembark, according to Holland America and Panamanian officials.

The Rotterdam is expected to return to San Diego, Arauz said.”

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