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3 hours ago, CuriousMomof3 said:

I wonder if some of the difference on feelings about crossing state lines has to do with where in the country someone lives.  I live in an area where state lines are very close together.  When I was working, I crossed a state line every day. On a typical week in the winter, last winter, members of our household would be in four different states, because we lived in one, had a standing medical/therapy appointment in another, and kids had after school activities in two others.  One of the family members who is picking up groceries and dropping them off at our house, while we are self isolating, lives in another state.  The nearest Walmart to my house is in another state.   If I had to take one of my kids to the ER with suspected COVID, I'd cross a state line, because the two nearest Children's hospitals are in two different states.  So, in my mind, closing state lines seems like an enormous step.  

On the other hand, if you live smack dab in the middle of state the size of Iowa or Texas, you might go for months without crossing a state line.  

 

2 hours ago, square_25 said:

 

It's also a lot harder to close state borders as opposed to country borders. How would you even enforce it? And what do you do with the fact that most states now have a hot zone? How big an area do you quarantine? Do you send in the military to patrol state borders? Is this even constitutional? Can you ensure that supplies can cross the lines? There are a lot of questions. 

I think the travel advisory is a good idea, anyway. I just wonder if there are better ways to spend energy than closing state borders or quarantining. Especially since most places are already locked down and very few people are flying as is. 

But again, I'm not vehemently against, except insofar that it seems like it'll take more energy than it's worth. 

 

I live right by a state border, too.  Less than 4 miles from my door to the border.  My in-law’s house used to be on the street that WAS the border.  If they stepped into the grass across the street from their house, they were in another state.  We pop back and forth across the border constantly.  My dh works in the bordering state, my kids’ orthodontist is in the bordering state, etc.  It’s all just “local” stuff to us. 

I don’t think state borders really mean anything to the virus.  It’ll be perfectly happy straddling a state line, or it’ll be happy to be smack in the middle of a state.  

A better idea would be to find a way to surround an area of outbreaks—some sort of X-mile radius around the center of it.  

But maybe legally, that’s too much of a hassle.  

Edited by Garga
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Abc - aus

Strict regulations around the manufacture of hand sanitiser have been relaxed so more businesses can make the product and meet rising demand.

  
The Federal Government says the Therapeutic Goods Administration no longer needs to approve the product if it's made with the recipes developed by the World Health Organisation.
  
Cheaper food grade alcohol can now also be used instead of the medical grade ingredient.
  
Some wineries with bushfire-damaged grapes are now using their facilities to manufacture sanitiser instead.

Edited by Ausmumof3
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2 hours ago, Happymomof1 said:

Hey one thing I'm wondering is how come Bejiing didn't have a surge of cases?  It is all over our big cities.  They are so crammed in there.  And if it is just the forced lockdown, then I'm guessing it will happen to them later in the year?

 

1 hour ago, Ausmumof3 said:

They had much more significant lock downs than we do with 14 day quarantine for anyone exiting or leaving the city.  

 

China has a hukou system for decades. People aren’t allowed to move to major cities to work and live easily. 

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3 hours ago, matrips said:

I think the supposition is that many of those 21 million accounts may be dead.  They said Chinese aren’t allowed to cancel their own accounts and most months the numbers grow.

Another possibility could be cancelling accounts to keep information spreading about how bad it really has been.

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I’m not sure how shutting state borders would even be possible around here.  We are right next to a state border that is a river, but there are four bridges crossing within ten miles of our house.  Just posting a couple of police officers at each state border crossing in our rural county would completely overwhelm our county’s resources.  They would have to send in state troopers or something, and that would take a lot of moving people from high-density, high-virus areas way out to rural areas lacking in the medical resources to deal with outbreaks, but also not in as much danger because of low population density and low population mobility.

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28 minutes ago, WendyAndMilo said:

Some Liberty University students that returned to the campus are now reporting symptoms🙄

I am so pissed off about this, because it's entirely predictable and only 45 minutes from where I was, and we had only one (known) local case before this.  And now it's going to be everywhere, dammit.  I hate him so much.  (I mean, I get that there are issues for stranded international students, but still, this was entirely predictable!!!  Don't send people to leave for spring break and then come back!)

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My town has it's first positive case.  The town still hasn't closed the parks and golf course, and last weekend the park was jammed full of people.  People have been coming down from Houston to camp and float around on the local rivers and lakes, and jam up the already packed grocery stores (we have all of *two* grocery stores).  We have 28,000 people that live in this town and our local hospital has a total of 125 beds, (not ICU beds...that is ALL the beds).  

But hey, we should focus on the positive, right? 😠

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My sister lives in NYC, in a 1 bedroom apt in Astoria with her husband (and cat), and worked in a yoga studio up until it was closed.  The day it closed and she was laid off, she and her husband (sans cat) and their friends went to the friends' family's cabin in NH.  They've been there about 10 days I guess? and plan to stay until the end of this coming week.  Then, if none of them are sick or have gotten sick, they plan to go stay with family in other states - my sister may come stay here with my mom in suburban Kansas City.  I don't 100% love this plan but to be honest, I wouldn't go back to NYC if I were her either.  They don't have money (the friends do, though) so it's not like they can just find a VRBO somewhere and wait it out for a month or two - they're living on unemployment and hope.  I don't know what they'll do about the cat.  I've told them that what I would do is fill up with gas in NH, drive to NYC, stop NOWHERE, pick up the cat while touching nothing unnecessary (which in an apt building in New York is hard of course), sanitize thoroughly when they're back in the car, and then drive here, stopping nowhere until they're well out of the city.  She doesn't want to expose my mom, who is 70 but in good health, to anything, but she has to go somewhere.  She was waffling about coming here, saying that the virus is here - well, this is true, but there are only maybe 100 official cases locally (in a metro area of 2 million), vs a much higher rate in NYC.  I think she's still in the stage of wanting to go somewhere completely safe.  Of course there is nowhere like that, and she's young and healthy to boot.

Her initial plan when it was clear NYC was going to shut down was to go camp in a tent for 2 months in NH somewhere.  so she's progressed at least somewhat.  They are hard decisions to make, though.

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17 minutes ago, kdsuomi said:

 

Doesn't the state order not have an end date, though? I don't see why the Bay Area would need to extend their order specifically when there is no way Newsom is letting us out before May 1.

I guess because original order in Santa Clara county said that they will shut down until sometime in April, they do not want people to make plans based on that older news.

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4 minutes ago, kdsuomi said:

 

I just don't understand the need when there is a statewide order, though. It's inconsequential, I guess, but interesting.

I thought that extending the shelter-in-place directive for Bay Area is anticipated to be announced next week though we all know that it will be extended until May 1st.

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More theories about the origin of the virus 

https://amp.scmp.com/news/china/science/article/3077442/coronavirus-pathogen-could-have-been-spreading-humans-decades?__twitter_impression=true

May have made the jump to human hosts quite a long time ago but only recently mutated to the form that causes a level of disease that triggers a surveillance system.  I’d like to see more links etc because I realise this is pretty political right now.

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12 hours ago, Pen said:

 

We are where we are now. Too late to change the past. 

That’s true.  That’s a reason why I think Stay Home except for essentials orders would work better. 

But this arose out of whoever it was @TracyP? question  of MN being able to safely go back to business as usual in 2 weeks — if other places don’t have Stay Home orders in place and if there aren’t shut borders. The question was can MN safely be an open business as usual place.  I think that was the question.  ???

 

Oh whoa. Sorry if I gave that impression! We are not going back to business as usual for a very long time. The plan right now -

We are already at  almost 3 weeks on social distancing measures - no gatherings, no bars/ restaurants, work from home if you can. School shut shortly after.

On Friday we went to shelter in place. No non essentials.

After 2 weeks the governor is hopeful we can go back to the social distancing measures. Those will continue for a minimum of 3 weeks in his plan.

After that he hopes (and he is clear that time is not the point - preparedness is) to go to normal with caveats. Those at high risk should continue social distancing for the duration. There will be more shutdowns, however they will hopefully be more targeted. 

I apologize for not being more clear on that.

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1 minute ago, square_25 said:

Are you guys going to build up hospital capacity and whatnot as well? Or is the hope that it's not necessary? 

I would guess this is an optimistic plan, but we'll see. 

Yes, one hospital has already moved to being a 90 bed icu facility devoted solely to covid. 2 more locations (hotels, irrc) are being investigated to turn into hospitals. 

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17 minutes ago, square_25 said:

Are you guys going to build up hospital capacity and whatnot as well? Or is the hope that it's not necessary? 

I would guess this is an optimistic plan, but we'll see. 

I want to add... I think my state is doing a great job getting in front of this. Only complaint, I would have liked an earlier shelter in place order. I know how beneficial that can be in the early stages. But the people weren't behind it yet. Right now, the people are behind it and they are complying. So I understand why he waited.

But even though I like what we are doing, I have no illusions that we are going to get off easy. It doesn't work that way, and I know that.

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5 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I can’t find a better source than the telegraph or daily mail but there is a report that Germany are looking at issuing immunity certificates to those with antibodies detected to the virus so they can get back to normal work and life.

This was reported in Der Spiegel.  There is talk about this, but the testing has not yet been approved.  

It would be interesting to see how this would impact human behavior.  If faced with "stay at home" for a long period of time, or get sick for 14 days with something that statistically will be mild, and then be able to go about your business, I would think some low-risk, young people would want to increase their risk of infection to get the immunity certificate.

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Just now, Bootsie said:

This was reported in Der Spiegel.  There is talk about this, but the testing has not yet been approved.  

It would be interesting to see how this would impact human behavior.  If faced with "stay at home" for a long period of time, or get sick for 14 days with something that statistically will be mild, and then be able to go about your business, I would think some low-risk, young people would want to increase their risk of infection to get the immunity certificate.

I hadn’t thought of that.  I can see several problems though.  For one thing we don’t have any evidence as to how long immunity lasts.  I guess certificate can carry an expiry date then you have to retest.  
 

I also have to say just in terms of self reflection that China’s app that gives you a green, yellow or red Health status and controls what you can do kind of sounded dystopian.  And yet this is not all that different and I’m sitting here approving it.  Maybe because it’s paper based versus digital . I do think at any other time we would see this as discriminatory but at times like this societies have to do what they can to make things work.

the other question I have is just because you have antibodies we don’t know for sure that you can’t be carrying it on some low lying way that then flares up unexpectedly.  

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1 minute ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I hadn’t thought of that.  I can see several problems though.  For one thing we don’t have any evidence as to how long immunity lasts.  I guess certificate can carry an expiry date then you have to retest.  
 

I also have to say just in terms of self reflection that China’s app that gives you a green, yellow or red Health status and controls what you can do kind of sounded dystopian.  And yet this is not all that different and I’m sitting here approving it.  Maybe because it’s paper based versus digital . I do think at any other time we would see this as discriminatory but at times like this societies have to do what they can to make things work.

the other question I have is just because you have antibodies we don’t know for sure that you can’t be carrying it on some low lying way that then flares up unexpectedly.  

The report I read said that one problem is that the test has false positives (saying people have immunity when they don't), because 90% of the population has antibodies for other coronaviruses.  It did not indicate how high that false positive rate might be.

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If this doesn't belong here let me know, but I don't think ya'll will laugh at my question -- LOL!

Are you getting take-out these days?  Either curbside pick-up or delivery?  I didn't realize how much we ate out and, being super careful and staying in, we have only had home cooked food.  Not complaining, but wondering what your thoughts are on this?  Cold food like subs ok?  Hot foods like Olive Garden or Long Horn better?  Would the food be ok, but of course we would need to be very careful with the packaging?

What are ya'll doing?!?!?!?

😁😷😬

P.S.  While I obviously don't want my family of 4 to get this, my DH and I are the only ones here to help my elderly father (he is 10 minutes from me) and my in-laws (who are 93) are staying home.  DH, me, and  my SIL are getting all their groceries, etc.  We want to be here to help them and keep them safe.  I know so many of us are in the same boat...

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@square_25@TCB

“A photo of health care professionals from Georgia on a Southwest plane on their way to help with the coronavirus outbreak in New York is getting lots of love online.

...There were about 30 health care professionals, all from Atlanta-area hospitals, who were on the regularly scheduled flight to LaGuardia Airport, Hubbard said.

"These brave souls soldier on in the midst of tremendous risk and exposure, constantly putting the needs of others above their own," Southwest Airlines wrote in an Instagram post on Sunday. "Their selfless sacrifice is a beacon of light during such a dark time in our world, and no amount of gratitude and praise would ever be enough."”

http://nbcbay.com/mBtcxMH

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9 minutes ago, mlktwins said:

If this doesn't belong here let me know, but I don't think ya'll will laugh at my question -- LOL!

Are you getting take-out these days?  Either curbside pick-up or delivery?  I didn't realize how much we ate out and, being super careful and staying in, we have only had home cooked food.  Not complaining, but wondering what your thoughts are on this?  Cold food like subs ok?  Hot foods like Olive Garden or Long Horn better?  Would the food be ok, but of course we would need to be very careful with the packaging?

What are ya'll doing?!?!?!?

😁😷😬

P.S.  While I obviously don't want my family of 4 to get this, my DH and I are the only ones here to help my elderly father (he is 10 minutes from me) and my in-laws (who are 93) are staying home.  DH, me, and  my SIL are getting all their groceries, etc.  We want to be here to help them and keep them safe.  I know so many of us are in the same boat...

 

We are being comfortable eating hot food takeout.

(and being deliberate every Sunday to choose a restaurant we want to keep in business.)

 

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19 minutes ago, mlktwins said:

If this doesn't belong here let me know, but I don't think ya'll will laugh at my question -- LOL!

Are you getting take-out these days?  Either curbside pick-up or delivery?  I didn't realize how much we ate out and, being super careful and staying in, we have only had home cooked food.  Not complaining, but wondering what your thoughts are on this?  Cold food like subs ok?  Hot foods like Olive Garden or Long Horn better?  Would the food be ok, but of course we would need to be very careful with the packaging?

What are ya'll doing?!?!?!?

😁😷😬

P.S.  While I obviously don't want my family of 4 to get this, my DH and I are the only ones here to help my elderly father (he is 10 minutes from me) and my in-laws (who are 93) are staying home.  DH, me, and  my SIL are getting all their groceries, etc.  We want to be here to help them and keep them safe.  I know so many of us are in the same boat...

Nope. No way. If I wasn’t high risk (and my kids weren’t either, I would consider something like a take and bake pizza, but that’s about it.

Dh goes out once a week for groceries. That’s it. He didn’t even go out this week because we are due to have our spike in two weeks (which makes it likely those people got infected this week). 
 

I miss take out a lot, but I think it is too risky.

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28 minutes ago, mlktwins said:

If this doesn't belong here let me know, but I don't think ya'll will laugh at my question -- LOL!

Are you getting take-out these days?  Either curbside pick-up or delivery?  I didn't realize how much we ate out and, being super careful and staying in, we have only had home cooked food.  Not complaining, but wondering what your thoughts are on this?  Cold food like subs ok?  Hot foods like Olive Garden or Long Horn better?  Would the food be ok, but of course we would need to be very careful with the packaging?

What are ya'll doing?!?!?!?

😁😷😬

P.S.  While I obviously don't want my family of 4 to get this, my DH and I are the only ones here to help my elderly father (he is 10 minutes from me) and my in-laws (who are 93) are staying home.  DH, me, and  my SIL are getting all their groceries, etc.  We want to be here to help them and keep them safe.  I know so many of us are in the same boat...

Sure, we've been getting takeout two or three times a week. Both DH and I are higher risk but we have almost no concern at all about food. There have been many articles written about it being safe. There was another thread about this a few days ago. I'll find it and come back and put a link in.

 

Edited by Pawz4me
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31 minutes ago, mlktwins said:

Are you getting take-out these days?  Either curbside pick-up or delivery?  I didn't realize how much we ate out and, being super careful and staying in, we have only had home cooked food.  Not complaining, but wondering what your thoughts are on this?  Cold food like subs ok?  Hot foods like Olive Garden or Long Horn better?  Would the food be ok, but of course we would need to be very careful with the packaging?

 

We're not doing takeout either. There's community spread in our area (which is probably the case for most of the country, at this point), and my zip code has the highest number of cases in my state. 

That said, I do think pizza which may still be 400 degrees when the box is closed would be much less of an issue than a cold sub or salad. I definitely wouldn't do cold food, and also would be careful to toss packaging after transferring hot food to plates with a spatula or serving spoon. 

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We are not doing any cold food, but we are ordering hot food about once a week.

It was my son's birthday yesterday and he wanted McDonald's fries and chicken nuggets.  I felt there was little chance there would be live virus on recently fried food.  I was a little concerned about packaging, though, so I dumped the food carefully onto plates, threw away the packaging, and then thoroughly washed hands before eating.  If he had asked for a hamburger instead, I would have taken the extra precaution of microwaving his food for long enough to heat the surface of the bun to kill anything there.

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38 minutes ago, vonfirmath said:

 

We are being comfortable eating hot food takeout.

(and being deliberate every Sunday to choose a restaurant we want to keep in business.)

 

This, exactly. We got dinner from our favorite middle eastern place last night. The owner was there by himself bc he can't afford to pay employees and bc it is impossible for people working there to maintain 6 ft apart. Dh said the man looked inexpressibly weary. I am glad we ordered. 

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No take out here, but we are all high risk with an elder living in the household. It might be overkill.  I think hot food would be ok, with packaging carefully removed, and especially if you reheat it once it’s on your plates.

I miss eating out!

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1 hour ago, mlktwins said:

If this doesn't belong here let me know, but I don't think ya'll will laugh at my question -- LOL!

Are you getting take-out these days?  Either curbside pick-up or delivery?  I didn't realize how much we ate out and, being super careful and staying in, we have only had home cooked food.  Not complaining, but wondering what your thoughts are on this?  Cold food like subs ok?  Hot foods like Olive Garden or Long Horn better?  Would the food be ok, but of course we would need to be very careful with the packaging?

What are ya'll doing?!?!?!?

😁😷😬

P.S.  While I obviously don't want my family of 4 to get this, my DH and I are the only ones here to help my elderly father (he is 10 minutes from me) and my in-laws (who are 93) are staying home.  DH, me, and  my SIL are getting all their groceries, etc.  We want to be here to help them and keep them safe.  I know so many of us are in the same boat...

We haven't heard of anyone catching it from food or through the digestive tract; I think washing one's hands after disposing of the packaging is prudent. We can't safely eat from most restaurants anyway, but have gotten 1 curbside meal from our go-to safe restaurant and meal deliveries from a service.

 

Interesting article on false negatives: https://towardsdatascience.com/statistics-and-unreliable-tests-coronavirus-is-difficult-to-contain-e113b5c0967c

I'm coughing less today. 🙂 Making a list for DH to go to the grocery store tomorrow. The reduced hours make it hard--he has to work more hours to get the same amount done from home.

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7 minutes ago, Spryte said:

No take out here, but we are all high risk with an elder living in the household. It might be overkill.  I think hot food would be ok, with packaging carefully removed, and especially if you reheat it once it’s on your plates.

I miss eating out!

Me too Spryte!!!  You are I will be having lunch together at some point.  Maybe 3 years from now at the rate we are going -- LOL!!!!

Edited by mlktwins
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10 hours ago, kdsuomi said:

 

Doesn't the state order not have an end date, though? I don't see why the Bay Area would need to extend their order specifically when there is no way Newsom is letting us out before May 1.

 

10 hours ago, mathnerd said:

I guess because original order in Santa Clara county said that they will shut down until sometime in April, they do not want people to make plans based on that older news.

I think it’s because California’s shelter in place has no end date and was put in place after Santa Clara county has already been in shelter in place.
 

Business are looking at how long they can afford to pay staff. They might not be able to pay for more than 3 weeks. The county end date was April 7th.

Also some restaurants and places like Starbucks have chosen to not be open for business until the county’s shelter in place is lifted. So even businesses in my county that are allowed to stay open are gauging when to reopen based on when the county’s shelter in place is lifted.

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@Pen@mathnerd@Plum@square_25

New York Time has a table by county now.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/coronavirus-us-cases.html

I only quoted for my state. 

California Alameda 291 6
California Amador 2 0
California Butte 5 0
California Calaveras 3 0
California Colusa 1 0
California Contra Costa 175 3
California El Dorado 12 0
California Fresno 43 0
California Glenn 1 0
California Humboldt 18 0
California Imperial 25 0
California Inyo 8 0
California Kern 51 1
California Kings 2 0
California Los Angeles 2,136 37
California Madera 18 1
California Marin 93 1
California Mendocino 3 0
California Merced 8 0
California Mono 11 0
California Monterey 32 1
California Napa 11 0
California Nevada 12 0
California Orange 431 4
California Placer 53 2
California Riverside 195 8
California Sacramento 163 6
California San Benito 14 1
California San Bernardino 76 3
California San Diego 519 6
California San Francisco 343 5
California San Joaquin 121 5
California San Luis Obispo 71 0
California San Mateo 277 6
California Santa Barbara 68 0
California Santa Clara 646 26
California Santa Cruz 41 1
California Shasta 4 1
California Siskiyou 3 0
California Solano 39 0
California Sonoma 57 1
California Stanislaus 31 0
California Sutter 6 0
California Tulare 29 1
California Tuolumne 1 0
California Ventura 98 3
California Yolo 16 1
California Yuba 3 0
Colorado Adams 110

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51 minutes ago, Slache said:

Every job I've had in the food industry I was told I would be fired if I called in sick.

My experience also.   If not said, very much implied.

That industry attitude is what contributed to Chipotle have E.coli outbreaks a few years ago. (I know someone working in corporate in another chain that studied the problems at Chipotle.)

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https://abc7news.com/business/macys-to-furlough-most-of-its-workforce/6062834/

“The majority of employees across Macy's, Bloomingdales, and Bluemercury brands will go on furlough beginning this week.

Macy's expects to be able to bring back employees on a staggered basis as business resumes.

There will be fewer furloughs in its digital business, supporting distribution centers and call centers so online customers can still be serviced.”

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https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/03/29/coronavirus-fda-eases-restrictions-mask-sterilization-technology/2936670001/

“Then the FDA issued a new waiver to Battelle, a Columbus-based non-profit. It said, “Battelle is authorized to decontaminate up to 10,000 compatible N95 respirators per chamber load” in its new machine that decontaminates the safest masks against coronavirus and can allow 20 reuses of the devices, which are in perilously short supply.

The company has two machines – each capable of cleaning 80,000 masks a day – ready to go for Ohio. It also is deploying machines to New York, Seattle and Washington, D.C. That means the new order could allow for up to 400,000 clean masks a day in the short run.”

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