wuhan - coronavirus

[mlktwins]

Press conference at 2 pm today with the Governor.  Rumor has it a stay at home order will be announced.  Finally!!!

ETA:  For Virginia -- sorry :-)!

Edited March 30, 2020 by mlktwins

[Pen]

3 hours ago, mlktwins said:

If this doesn't belong here let me know, but I don't think ya'll will laugh at my question -- LOL!

Are you getting take-out these days?  Either curbside pick-up or delivery?  I didn't realize how much we ate out and, being super careful and staying in, we have only had home cooked food.  Not complaining, but wondering what your thoughts are on this?  Cold food like subs ok?  Hot foods like Olive Garden or Long Horn better?  Would the food be ok, but of course we would need to be very careful with the packaging?

What are ya'll doing?!?!?!?

😁😷😬

P.S.  While I obviously don't want my family of 4 to get this, my DH and I are the only ones here to help my elderly father (he is 10 minutes from me) and my in-laws (who are 93) are staying home.  DH, me, and  my SIL are getting all their groceries, etc.  We want to be here to help them and keep them safe.  I know so many of us are in the same boat...

 

Personally, no—but we live rural and it wasn’t something I did before CV19 either.  45 min drive each way to get takeout would be silly. 

I did used to get some food to go from deli counters or salad bars at the groceries we commonly use, or at a place near to child activities during chauffeur the kids times.

 I deliberately did not get deli counter or salad bar food when I last had that option still, but already suspected community spread because of concerns about too many people potentially breathing or coughing (accidentally, not even talking about jerks deliberately doing that) on the food.

If I lived somewhere that take out delivery was an option, and it was something that I did do before CV19, I would at the very least be getting rid of outside packages and probably  using only hot food that could be reheated to probably virus killing temperature. Especially for any at risk people. 

If homecooking plus well cleaned home prepared fresh food can be done, I think that’s a healthier alternative.  

 But if it is a choice between no food or home junk packaged food and take out delivered I think the takeout delivered would be much better than not eating, or eating potato chips and candy or whatever.  And I think delivery would probably also be better than in person pick ups if tipping delivery people etc is something that you can do. 

I’d have a garbage can to receive outside wrapping outdoors if possible, and hot oven ready ASAP to put pizza or lasagna, or whatever food it is, in oven to get, hopefully, sanitized while hands that dealt with packaging are washed.

and of course stay at least 2 meters away from delivery people, more if possible (Like pay by phone including the delivery tip if possible and let them leave it and go while door is still shut). 

I don’t know anything about the restaurants you mention , but if you go with takeout would choose an individual place you have confidence in and specific foods that lend themselves to immediate reheating for sanitation reasons

 

[Arcadia]

https://abc7news.com/6062810/
“Brooks Brothers, a private clothier founded in 1818, is converting its New York, North Carolina and Massachusetts factories.

The North Carolina Brooks Brothers factory is located in Garland, a town in Sampson County.

The goal is to have those factories producing up to 150,000 masks per day. Gowns will also be produced, but the company did not state a daily numerical goal for them.

Brooks Brothers' leadership said it had been in contact with federal and state officials as well as hospital systems to determine the best way the company could help with the pandemic.

"We consider this a duty, and part of our DNA at Brooks Brothers," Brooks Brothers CEO Claudio Del Vecchio said. "These are challenging times that are impacting us all. We are deeply grateful to the medical personnel at the frontlines who are fighting the pandemic, and we are honored to do our part and join our peers in retail to provide protective masks that our health care system critically needs. I also want to thank our dedicated manufacturing employees who are returning to work as we reopen our factories to make this possible."”

[Jean in Newcastle]

Asked managers at grocery store and pharmacy if the community offered hand sewn masks if workers would be allowed to wear them. Manager at the pharmacy gratefully accepted the offer.  Manager at Safeway "needs to talk to Corporate ".  

[MEmama]

4 hours ago, mlktwins said:

If this doesn't belong here let me know, but I don't think ya'll will laugh at my question -- LOL!

Are you getting take-out these days?  Either curbside pick-up or delivery?  I didn't realize how much we ate out and, being super careful and staying in, we have only had home cooked food.  Not complaining, but wondering what your thoughts are on this?  Cold food like subs ok?  Hot foods like Olive Garden or Long Horn better?  Would the food be ok, but of course we would need to be very careful with the packaging?

What are ya'll doing?!?!?!?

😁😷😬

P.S.  While I obviously don't want my family of 4 to get this, my DH and I are the only ones here to help my elderly father (he is 10 minutes from me) and my in-laws (who are 93) are staying home.  DH, me, and  my SIL are getting all their groceries, etc.  We want to be here to help them and keep them safe.  I know so many of us are in the same boat...

We never do takeout except pizza, but we vowed to start in order to support our local restaurants. We forgot this week, though. It’s just not on my radar. It doesn’t worry me though, not at all. I haven’t seen anything that indicates it could be a problem. Losing our local businesses sure would be, though, so I’ll try to remember to get delivery this week. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

If you are uncomfortable getting take out, you can also support local restaurants and businesses by getting gift cards. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

Just now, kdsuomi said:

 

There are reasons for talking to Corporate, though. There are regulations in regards to companies handing out masks or requiring masks. If the masks are N95 (obviously home made masks aren't), there are additional regulations. 

I just reported what he said with no commentary on his motivation. 

[ScoutTN]

1 hour ago, kdsuomi said:

 

My experience in food was that it was allowed to call in sick. Employers can actually get in a lot of trouble for firing employees for calling in sick. 

I worked in food service for years. Large university, independent and chain restaurants, catering. Never had a boss who was NOT emphatic about staying home if you were sick! 

[JennyD]

Some very very tentative good news in Israel today -- the time to doubling is slowing.  As of last Wednesday cases were doubling every 3 days, now it's about 5.5 days.  Total cases 4695, 16 deaths.

For reference, schools were cancelled March 12, all nonessential business and activities were cancelled/prohibited March 15.  Beginning March 25 everyone has been banned from going more than 100 meters from home unless for grocery shopping or other urgent business, and the police have been out in droves enforcing the rules.

The daily number of new cases is still rising and the official predictions remain dire.  Tonight Netanyahu -- who is in self-quarantine after an aide tested positive -- added more restrictions, mostly targeted at shutting down the few remaining bits of group religious activity.  

A public opinion poll released today just about blew my little American mind: 75% of Israelis said that they were worried that they or a family member would catch the virus, and 75% are worried about their own economic situation.  Still, 60% described their mood as good or very good.  

 

 

[ikslo]

3 hours ago, Arcadia said:

https://abc7news.com/6062533/

“Updated 2 hours ago

TAMPA, Florida -- Despite stay-at-home orders and warnings from deputies, a Florida church held Sunday services anyway.

People across the country voiced outrage online after seeing streaming video from inside The River at Tampa Bay Church Sunday morning.”

https://www.abcactionnews.com/news/region-hillsborough/pastor-of-tampa-church-arrested-for-holding-large-services-despite-safer-at-home-order

They arrested the pastor.

 

[Jean in Newcastle]

5 minutes ago, ikslo said:

https://www.abcactionnews.com/news/region-hillsborough/pastor-of-tampa-church-arrested-for-holding-large-services-despite-safer-at-home-order

They arrested the pastor.

 

Good.  There was absolutely no reason why they couldn't still "offer hope" (his excuse for being open) online instead.  I wonder how many future cases will be able to be traced back to his actions.  (If they are even doing contact tracing anymore.)

ETA:  There are going to be people who cry out "persecution"!  But this is not it. 

Edited March 30, 2020 by Jean in Newcastle

[Arcadia]

🙂 🇮🇹 Italy 

https://abc7news.com/health/102-year-old-woman-recovers-from-covid-19/6063077/
“GENOA, Italy -- A 102-year-old woman in Italy recovered from COVID-19 after spending 20 days in the hospital.

Italica Grondona's doctors said they nicknamed her "Highlander - the Immortal." They said she represents a hope for "all the elderly facing this pandemic."

Grondona was hospitalized at the beginning of March with heart failure related to COVID-19. She left the hospital on March 26 and will spend time in a care facility to fully recover.

According to the World Health Organization, the COVID-19 death rate is currently between 4-5 percent with the highest rate of fatalities coming from older patients.

The doctors said Grondona is the only person they know of who might have gone through the Spanish flu pandemic of 1918/1919 and the COVID-19 pandemic.

The Spanish flu pandemic killed at least 50 million people worldwide, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.”

[Pen]

28 minutes ago, ScoutTN said:

I worked in food service for years. Large university, independent and chain restaurants, catering. Never had a boss who was NOT emphatic about staying home if you were sick! 

 

👍

I think the problem now would be if someone has the virus but is asymptomatic or pre-symptomatic.

And is why I would get rid of wrappings and reheat the food to a probably pathogen killing temperature. 

[Pen]

 

24 minutes ago, JennyD said:

A public opinion poll released today just about blew my little American mind: 75% of Israelis said that they were worried that they or a family member would catch the virus, and 75% are worried about their own economic situation.  Still, 60% described their mood as good or very good.  

 

 

 

Thanks for the Israel update!

Which part of the poll results surprised you? 

[Pawz4me]

2 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

I’m surprised Parliament went with it.  And though I know he leans that way, I wasn’t expecting such a naked power grab, I thought things had been fairly stable.

I’m not sure how well known that is, though?  Most people don’t know where Hungary even is, let alone the current politics of the day or the name of the president.  I’m someone who stays as up on current events as I can and have a a good friend over there and still was surprised and so was she (to a lesser extent, she’s pretty cynical on him in general), so I figured it wasn’t something that was being watched or expected 😞

I'm surprised that anybody who follows world politics would be surprised.

[Pen]

14 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

🙂 🇮🇹 Italy 

https://abc7news.com/health/102-year-old-woman-recovers-from-covid-19/6063077/
“GENOA, Italy -- A 102-year-old woman in Italy recovered from COVID-19 after spending 20 days in the hospital.

 

Thanks for this!  I am going to share it with my mom who is in her 80’s and could use some good news!

 

14 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

The doctors said Grondona is the only person they know of who might have gone through the Spanish flu pandemic of 1918/1919 and the COVID-19 pandemic.

The Spanish flu pandemic killed at least 50 million people worldwide, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.”

 

Alabama did an interview series with 1918 pandemic survivors .  Some may still be alive for this one.  An example interview: 

https://youtu.be/5CyvLzYg1P4

https://youtu.be/5CyvLzYg1P4

 

[Jean in Newcastle]

I tried and tried and can't find the article to link that I read earlier that talked about how those who do survive ICU with this illness (as well as other illnesses) often then have PTSD afterwards. 

[Pen]

6 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

I tried and tried and can't find the article to link that I read earlier that talked about how those who do survive ICU with this illness (as well as other illnesses) often then have PTSD afterwards. 

 

I don’t know about ICU survivors ptsd, but Lancet had something on PTSD in medical workers:

“The medical health-care workers who are caring for individuals who are either severely ill, feel scared, or experiencing bereavement are themselves exposed to trauma. Health-care workers are also at risk of getting infected, and they carry a large burden in the clinical treatment and public prevention efforts in Chinese hospitals and community settings. The challenges and stress they experience could trigger common mental disorders, including anxiety and depressive disorders, and posttraumatic stress disorder,

⁵ which in turn could result in hazards that exceed the consequences of the 2019-nCoV epidemic itself “

 

 

[ikslo]

9 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

I tried and tried and can't find the article to link that I read earlier that talked about how those who do survive ICU with this illness (as well as other illnesses) often then have PTSD afterwards. 

This one?

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/post-intensive-care-syndrome-why-some-covid-19-patients-may-n1166611

[Arcadia]

14 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

I tried and tried and can't find the article to link that I read earlier that talked about how those who do survive ICU with this illness (as well as other illnesses) often then have PTSD afterwards. 

2015 article https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/news/media/releases/ptsd_common_in_icu_survivors

“Post-traumatic stress disorder is often thought of as a symptom of warfare, major catastrophes and assault. It’s rarely considered in patients who survive a critical illness and stay in the intensive care unit (ICU). However, in a recent Johns Hopkins study, researchers found that nearly one-quarter of ICU survivors suffer from PTSD. They also identified possible triggers for PTSD and indicated a potential preventive strategy: having patients keep ICU diaries. The findings will be published in the May issue of Critical Care Medicine.”

from a doctor https://www.nebraskamed.com/COVID/a-message-from-one-of-our-doctors-to-his-family-about-covid-19

“In the SARS-1 outbreak, critical care doctors and nurses in Asia and Canada acquired life-long PTSD from watching patients gasp for air and die because they did not have enough ventilators. SARS-1 was nothing compared to COVID-19. If we do not flatten the curve, Rachel, Bridget, and I will have to witness many of these types of deaths.”

[lewelma]

7 minutes ago, kdsuomi said:

You can disagree all you want, but I still find it sad and scary. People didn't have to attend if they didn't want to. (I'm a strict constitutionalist, in case that helps anyone understand why I have that viewpoint.)

Was the service held in an area with a lockdown order?  If so, doesn't it apply to all organizations whether profit or nonprofit? If that is true, shouldn't we cheer *equal* enforcement of the law, regardless of who is the group/individual being detained? 

I'm in a lockdown area (stricter than most of you, here in NZ). People here who are sacrificing and following the rules, want those who aren't to be prosecuted. Our sacrifices should not be undermined by those who think the rules don't apply to them. 

[Shoeless]

No take out here. We are rural and hadn't done much take out in months, anyway because the local restaurants had sketchy sanitation. We got food poisoning 4 or 5 times from different restaurants in the area prior to the pandemic.  I won't go back to any of them.

[Pen]

32 minutes ago, kdsuomi said:

You can disagree all you want, but I still find it sad and scary. People didn't have to attend if they didn't want to. (I'm a strict constitutionalist, in case that helps anyone understand why I have that viewpoint.)

 

However, first responders and health care personnel don’t have the option of “not attending” when someone ends up in difficulties. 

[Corraleno]

This was posted on the Dallas County FB page, but it really applies nationwide:

"I urge everyone to avoid grocery shopping on April 1-3 unless you have a critical need.

WIC benefits come to low-income families at the first of the month and there will be a surge as these families redeem them.
Many of these families' benefits were depleted more quickly because children are staying home from school and some families are going hungry right now...

Give these families space to shop and please respect their needs by not buying items with a WIC shelf tag unless you absolutely need them."

[Ausmumof3]

Bno Italy reports 4,050 new cases of coronavirus and 812 new deaths, raising total to 101,739 cases and 11,591 dead

while the number of deaths is still high this is a significant drop on new cases for the second or third day.  Let’s hope this means measures are working.

[Arcadia]

@SeaConquest@mathnerd

Duke TIP announcement on Facebook 

“After much deliberation, based on a thorough understanding of the progression of COVID-19, Duke University has made the decision not to proceed with any summer residential programs sponsored by the University for 2020.

This cancellation applies to all dates, locations, and age groups for both our Summer Studies and CRISIS programs. It does not, however, apply to our online summer programs for 4th–6th graders (eInvestigators) or 7–10th graders (eStudies).

We share in your disappointment today but likewise encourage you to share in our determination to make next year’s sessions the best yet.

Duke TIP held its first session of what would eventually be named Summer Studies in 1981. One hundred fifty-one students from twenty-five states attended the program that year, held on Duke University’s West Campus. Since then, thirty-eight straight cohorts of bright, inimitable students have attended Summer Studies and helped turn it into the beloved institution that it is today.

This year's group would have been the fortieth to attend the Summer Studies Program.

The CRISIS program, like the students who attend it, is relatively young. This would have been only the ninth cohort to attend the program. That means there’s room for both the program and its students to grow their ambition and discover untapped drive.

We hope all TIPsters, both current and past, come out of this with a broadened perspective and renewed motivation to learn—both for the sake of learning itself and to make a real difference in the world.

We will stay in direct contact with all families affected by these program cancellations.”

ETA:

@gstharr

Edited March 30, 2020 by Arcadia

[Terabith]

 

[wendyroo]

15 hours ago, lewelma said:

People here who are sacrificing and following the rules, want those who aren't to be prosecuted. Our sacrifices should not be undermined by those who think the rules don't apply to them. 

This is my feeling exactly.

Experts are telling us that the more strictly we isolate, the sooner the "Hammer" phase of virus control can be over and we can all start getting back to normal.  My family is REALLY struggling with mental health and destruction and violence during this lock down, so gaining access to therapy and other in-person medical care again ASAP is a high priority to me.  I will happily go years without going out to eat or getting my hair cut if I can just get my son in to see his psychiatrist again.

We are doing our part by staying as isolated as we possibly can...and it makes me so mad when I see people flouting lockdown orders.  On a large scale they are risking the lives of thousands of vulnerable people in their communities.  On a small scale they are forcing me and my family to live in this incredibly traumatic, stressful, damaging situation longer than is strictly necessary.  All because they want to go to the beach or they want to worship in person at their church or they want to play basketball with a group of friends.  Their wants do not supersede the law, and I am not in a place that I can cut them a lot of slack just because they are young or lonely or having trouble adjusting.

I fully support enforcing lock down orders through police intervention, and then fines, and then arrests as necessary.

Edited March 31, 2020 by wendyroo

[JennyD]

20 hours ago, Pen said:

 

 

Thanks for the Israel update!

Which part of the poll results surprised you? 

 The fact that so many people describe their mood as good while simultaneously being very worried about getting sick/having financial problems.  I mean, it makes sense when you think about it, given circumstances here, but it was striking to me nonetheless.  Also, the very restrictive measures are super popular.  93% of people (!) either like them or want them to be more stringent.  Only 7% think they should be relaxed.

19 hours ago, kdsuomi said:

No because we have the right to practice religion. 

Again, you ask can disagree with me all you want, but it doesn't make it any more constitutionally ok. We can't legally have baptisms, confirmations, or Last Rites, either, in most places, and that also isn't constitutionally ok. 

 

As a matter of federal constitutional law, the current judicial test for a law that abridges the free exercise of religion is whether the law is a "neutral law of general applicability" -- i.e., it applies equally to both religious and nonreligious actors.  If so, the law need only be "rationally related to a legitimate state interest."

A law that prohibits any gathering of more than 20 people (or whatever the relevant number is here) would actually be a classic example of a neutral law of general applicability, because it obviously applies to everyone and bans all kinds of gatherings, religious and non.  And a temporary ban on people gathering in the middle of a pandemic easily meets the 'rationality' requirement.   

In response to the 1990 Supreme Court decision (written by Justice Scalia) that established this standard , a number of states passed laws enshrining the older, more protective constitutional standard for free exercise of religion.  In states that have these kinds of statutes, the test is whether a law abridging the free exercise of religion is "narrowly tailored to achieve a compelling state interest,"  This is a high standard, but an order temporarily prohibiting gatherings in the middle of a pandemic would certainly meet it.

 

Edited March 31, 2020 by JennyD

[SeaConquest]

1 hour ago, Arcadia said:

2015 article https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/news/media/releases/ptsd_common_in_icu_survivors

“Post-traumatic stress disorder is often thought of as a symptom of warfare, major catastrophes and assault. It’s rarely considered in patients who survive a critical illness and stay in the intensive care unit (ICU). However, in a recent Johns Hopkins study, researchers found that nearly one-quarter of ICU survivors suffer from PTSD. They also identified possible triggers for PTSD and indicated a potential preventive strategy: having patients keep ICU diaries. The findings will be published in the May issue of Critical Care Medicine.”

 

This is what we did in our ICU at UCSD. We kept an ICU diary where we documented their stay in the ICU. We took pictures. We wrote things down. It was like a scrapbook. I didn't read your link, but part of the issue is that people have this bizarre gap in their memory from the amnesic effect of the paralytic and sedative medications, and it can be very disconcerting for a lot of people. So, if you can fill in the blanks of what happened to them while they were out, it helps them to process the whole traumatic event in a way that can give them closure and help them to move forward psychologically.

[SeaConquest]

41 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

@SeaConquest@mathnerd

Duke TIP announcement on Facebook 

“After much deliberation, based on a thorough understanding of the progression of COVID-19, Duke University has made the decision not to proceed with any summer residential programs sponsored by the University for 2020.

This cancellation applies to all dates, locations, and age groups for both our Summer Studies and CRISIS programs. It does not, however, apply to our online summer programs for 4th–6th graders (eInvestigators) or 7–10th graders (eStudies).

We share in your disappointment today but likewise encourage you to share in our determination to make next year’s sessions the best yet.

Duke TIP held its first session of what would eventually be named Summer Studies in 1981. One hundred fifty-one students from twenty-five states attended the program that year, held on Duke University’s West Campus. Since then, thirty-eight straight cohorts of bright, inimitable students have attended Summer Studies and helped turn it into the beloved institution that it is today.

This year's group would have been the fortieth to attend the Summer Studies Program.

The CRISIS program, like the students who attend it, is relatively young. This would have been only the ninth cohort to attend the program. That means there’s room for both the program and its students to grow their ambition and discover untapped drive.

We hope all TIPsters, both current and past, come out of this with a broadened perspective and renewed motivation to learn—both for the sake of learning itself and to make a real difference in the world.

We will stay in direct contact with all families affected by these program cancellations.”

 

Well, I knew that was going to happen. Thanks, Arcadia. They just sent me an email yesterday asking for another payment, so that saves me another $250+ payment. I really hope they offer the kids spots in next year's program to make up for it.

[TCB]

6 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

I tried and tried and can't find the article to link that I read earlier that talked about how those who do survive ICU with this illness (as well as other illnesses) often then have PTSD afterwards. 

I would not be surprised if it is worse for these patients then normal. We are not spending as much time in the rooms with them as you usually would with an intubated patient, we have on all the PPE that makes communication difficult and they aren’t able to have family with them. 

Edited March 31, 2020 by TCB

[SeaConquest]

11 minutes ago, TCB said:

I would not be surprised if it is worse for these patients then normal. We are not spending as much time in the rooms with them as you usually would with an intubate patient, we have on all the PPE that makes communication difficult and they aren’t able to have family with them. 

 

I can't even imagine how lonely it must be for these patients. And I am so worried about the ICU and ED nurses that I worked with (you too TCB!!) -- the whole situation is just agonizing.

Did anyone else watch Governor Newsom's speech creating the California Health Corps?

https://covid19.ca.gov/healthcorps/

I don't know all the details yet, but they are relaxing some of our regs to allow NPs to have full practice authority, to allow more healthcare professionals to gain licensure in CA (if licenses are expired or out of state, etc), and to allow medical and nursing students to join. I don't know how far along you have to be in med/nursing school to qualify. I am waiting on more specifics. These are paid positions.  

[HSmomof2]

6 hours ago, Slache said:

Every job I've had in the food industry I was told I would be fired if I called in sick.

Our state already had mandatory paid sick leave for all employees, and restaurants serving takeout are being inspected and contacted by the health dept to make sure they understand and are complying with absolutely no sick workers. We are ordering takeout a couple times per week to support local businesses. Dh works in public health and has no reservations about it at this time. So far, there is no evidence of it being transmitted through food. 

[SoCal_Bear]

This stood out to me in this oped piece about Germany's CFR and why it is way too early to draw any conclusions regarding the numbers.

Patients have only recently entered hospitals. On average, a severely ill Covid-19 patient dies 30 days after being infected. 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/28/opinion/germany-coronavirus.html

[ktgrok]

16 hours ago, Terabith said:

More evidence of aerosol transmission.  https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-03-29/coronavirus-choir-outbreak?fbclid=IwAR1D5Kf0hiEYOS6Bi1MgvAIdUFyeVS3WayrJPrDwsRYCgtgEvU-nQPmt4Po

Gosh darn it! I have been saying and saying this to people - there have been tons of reports of asymptomatic spread, reports of how long it stays in the air, etc, and yet the official stance is STILL - it is droplet spread, wash your hands, etc. 

Wash your hands and stay home if sick is not enough, and those pushign for people to go back to normal life and just take "precautions" need to see this. It chaps my rear that the CDC and others, rather than err on the side of caution and say, "might be airborne, stay home" were for a long time saying, "wash your hands" and were saying to stay home when sick rather than emphasizing over and over that asymptomatic people could spread it. 

2 hours ago, ikslo said:

https://www.abcactionnews.com/news/region-hillsborough/pastor-of-tampa-church-arrested-for-holding-large-services-despite-safer-at-home-order

They arrested the pastor.

 

Good. The one persecuting Christians is HIM for putting them in harms way. A leader should LEAD and protect his flock, even if they don't like it. 

 

2 hours ago, kdsuomi said:

I find it really sad and scary that people are cheering for a pastor being arrested for holding service. Yes, I totally get that most people on this board are cheering for it. 

I find it sad and scary that people are willing to be so cavalier with the very lives of others. And that Christians seem to have forgetten that they ARE their brother's keeper, and they are told to take care of the least of these - in this case the vulnerable in the population. What we do or don't do for them is how we treat Christ. Pretty sure we are also called to sacrifice our own wants and desires for the good of our fellow man. 

2 hours ago, kdsuomi said:

You can disagree all you want, but I still find it sad and scary. People didn't have to attend if they didn't want to. (I'm a strict constitutionalist, in case that helps anyone understand why I have that viewpoint.)

Sure, but the people they will then come in contact with in the community, buying groceries or at a medical appointment, don't get that choice. 

[SeaConquest]

This is the actual executive order, but it seems like a lot of the details still need to be worked out by the individual boards that govern the area of practice (ie medical board, board of registered nursing, etc.), unless there is more that I haven't found posted. Newsom is definitely giving them wide latitude to get it done through this order, though.

https://www.gov.ca.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/3.30.20-EO-N-39-20.pdf

 

[Jaybee]

2 hours ago, kdsuomi said:

I find it really sad and scary that people are cheering for a pastor being arrested for holding service. Yes, I totally get that most people on this board are cheering for it. 

I am a Christian. I work in a Christian organization, and have had close relationships with another (in a different one from the one I work in now) for years. But I feel holding on-campus live services like he did, in these times, is irresponsible leadership. A few weeks ago, many pastors were trying to decide what to do, and maybe at that time they decided to hold live services. Since then, most have moved to online in order to care for their congregations in a more loving way. A few weeks ago, I then wished/hoped pastors would see this coming. Now, they don't have any excuse for not being well-informed. With this virus, it is not only putting into jeopardy the lives of those who willingly and even insistently come to the services (like perhaps some less contagious sicknesses in years past), but the lives of many in the community outside of that congregation.

[Arcadia]

😡
https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/52091905

“Red Bull motorsport boss Helmut Marko said he advised his drivers to become infected with coronavirus while the season is in hiatus.

The 76-year-old said he had the idea to bring his Formula 1 drivers and juniors together in a camp, which "would be the ideal time for the infection to come".

"They are all strong young men in good health. That way they would be prepared whenever the action starts," he said.”

[Laurie]

Did anyone else hear the doctor who called into Rush Limbaugh's show this morning?  He was explaining about a machine called a hemolung that could be used in place of ventilators for covid patients.   The way he described the machine, it is even better than a ventilator because the patient can still talk and even walk around with it in place.  

I only had a short time to look for info about the hemolung and found a short video on you tube.  It does sound like a good alternative, but I'm not a medical person.  

 

Edited March 30, 2020 by Laurie

[Pen]

 

Quote

It chaps my rear that the CDC and others, rather than err on the side of caution and say, "might be airborne, stay home" were for a long time saying, "wash your hands" and were saying to stay home when sick rather than emphasizing over and over that asymptomatic people could spread it. 

 

Has that changed? Last I looked that was still the view. 

Quote

Good. The one persecuting Christians is HIM for putting them in harms way. A leader should LEAD and protect his flock, even if they don't like it. 

 

I find it sad and scary that people are willing to be so cavalier with the very lives of others. And that Christians seem to have forgetten that they ARE their brother's keeper, and they are told to take care of the least of these - in this case the vulnerable in the population. What we do or don't do for them is how we treat Christ. Pretty sure we are also called to sacrifice our own wants and desires for the good of our fellow man. 

Sure, but the people they will then come in contact with in the community, buying groceries or at a medical appointment, don't get that choice. 

 

Amen.

 

 I totally agree.

 

Edited March 30, 2020 by Pen

[livetoread]

This was a great article about an Ebola patient with ptsd. Sorry it’s paywalled, but still worth the read.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/an-ebola-patient-treated-in-the-us-chose-to-remain-anonymous-now-hes-telling-his-story/2019/12/27/c8b6de6a-04a1-11ea-8292-c46ee8cb3dce_story.html

[Arcadia]

🇫🇷 🇨🇭 🇩🇪 🇱🇺 

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/world/coronavirus-covid-19-france-death-toll-cases-12590956

“France has increased the number of beds in intensive care units from 5,000 to about 10,000 since the start of the crisis and it is scrambling to reach 14,500.

In the eastern city of Strasbourg, paramedics in hazmat suits transferred six patients onto three Caiman NH90 medicalised helicopters before they were moved to hospitals in Bern and Frankfurt.

Eighty have so far been moved from the region to Switzerland, Germany and Luxembourg. Transfers from Paris hospitals are expected in the coming days.”

[AmandaVT]

8 hours ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Nope. No way. If I wasn’t high risk (and my kids weren’t either, I would consider something like a take and bake pizza, but that’s about it.

Dh goes out once a week for groceries. That’s it. He didn’t even go out this week because we are due to have our spike in two weeks (which makes it likely those people got infected this week). 
 

I miss take out a lot, but I think it is too risky.

 

Is there a website that shows where and when spikes are supposed to hit? 

We are not doing takeout right now. I'd be comfortable with it, from restaurants I know well, but I got a hot coffee at a local coffee shop a couple of weeks ago and DH told me I drank covid and was so horrified, I decided to hold off for now.

[Arcadia]

8 minutes ago, AmandaVT said:

 

Is there a website that shows where and when spikes are supposed to hit? 

I’m using this http://covid19.healthdata.org

[ScoutTN]

4 hours ago, kdsuomi said:

I find it really sad and scary that people are cheering for a pastor being arrested for holding service. Yes, I totally get that most people on this board are cheering for it. 

I am glad he was arrested.

The pastor was not loving his people nor obeying the civil magistrate. He was leading his congregation into both sin and physical danger. He was disobeying a legitimate authority. Government  holds the power of the sword rightfully; that is it's God-ordained function. The government was NOT requiring anything sinful, therefore should be obeyed. Churches should be the first to love their neighbors by doing everything possible to prevent the ravages of this virus.  God is not limited nor the Church harmed by online worship. Is it the same as irl, of course not. But this is temporary, urgent, and important. 

[Arcadia]

🇬🇧 

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-52087002

“University College London engineers worked with clinicians at UCLH and Mercedes Formula One to build the device, which delivers oxygen to the lungs without needing a ventilator.

Continuous Positive Airway Pressure (CPAP) devices are already used in hospitals but are in short supply.

China and Italy used them to help Covid-19 patients.

Forty of the new devices have been delivered to ULCH and to three other London hospitals. If trials go well, up to 1,000 of the CPAP machines can be produced per day by Mercedes-AMG-HPP, beginning in a week's time. 

The Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) has already given its approval for their use.

Ventilator consortium

Meanwhile a consortium of UK industrial, technology and engineering businesses in the UK has come together to produce medical ventilators for the NHS.

The "VentilatorChallengeUK" consortium includes Airbus, BAE Systems, Ford, Rolls-Royce and Siemens. 

Companies in the consortium have received orders for more than 10,000 ventilators from the government, although MHRA approval is still pending.

Production is due to begin next week.”

[mumto2]

10 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

I’m using this http://covid19.healthdata.org

Thank you!

[ScoutTN]

4 hours ago, SeaConquest said:

 

This is what we did in our ICU at UCSD. We kept an ICU diary where we documented their stay in the ICU. We took pictures. We wrote things down. It was like a scrapbook. I didn't read your link, but part of the issue is that people have this bizarre gap in their memory from the amnesic effect of the paralytic and sedative medications, and it can be very disconcerting for a lot of people. So, if you can fill in the blanks of what happened to them while they were out, it helps them to process the whole traumatic event in a way that can give them closure and help them to move forward psychologically.

Yes, when my dh was in the neuro-ICU 5 years ago, pre and post brain surgery, the nurses encouraged him to journal and even provided materials!

Edited March 31, 2020 by ScoutTN

[AmandaVT]

17 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

I’m using this http://covid19.healthdata.org

 

Thank you!