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gardenmom5

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9 minutes ago, SamanthaCarter said:

That’s because Cuomo wanted them ALL. 🙄

Governor Whitmer said that all of her orders for ventilators and PPE have been cancelled by vendors and redirected to the federal stockpile, and the vendors are saying that they were told not to send her anything. This is at the same time that POTUS is publicly referring to her as a "half wit" and telling Hannity that he told Pence not to call her or Inslee because they are complaining too much and not being appreciative enough of all he is doing for them.

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 I wonder how on earth Italy become one.  Dr. Fauci theorizes it was because of the very large number of Chinese tourists, who seeded the virus in multiple spots in that country. 

So I did some digging. We get about 450,000 Chinese tourists each year, which is about 10% of the population of NZ. Does Italy get 6 million Chinese tourists a year? That would be an equivalent percent of population compared to NZ. 

However, we locked the border to mainland China on February 2nd. So I'm not convinced Dr. Fauci is right.  I think NZ acted faster than Italy. 

 

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Just now, square_25 said:

Wait. Wait. The federal government are COMPETING with the states for ventilators and PPE?? And they are also being instructed not to send any to those states? Ugh. 

Multiple governors are complaining of that — they were told to find their own equipment, but then when they tried to buy it they were outbid by the federal government, who did not send them what they needed. 

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21 minutes ago, kdsuomi said:

 

For Italy and Spain, I've seen it theorized that it had to do with a big soccer game that happened in Bergamo right about that time. Apparently, most of the first Spaniards to have confirmed cases were all associated with that game?

@square_25@lewelma

UEFA Champions League

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-champions-league-match-a-biological-bomb-that-infected-bergamo-experts-say-11963905

“A football match played last month was a "biological bomb" that may have helped cause Bergamo in northern Italy to become an epicentre of the coronavirus pandemic, experts have said.

Atalanta's home Champions League tie against Valencia, held two days before the first case of locally transmitted COVID-19was confirmed in the country, has been dubbed "Game Zero" by local media.

...

Less than a week after the game, the first cases were reported in the province of Bergamo.

The contagion was reported in Valencia at about the same time after a journalist who travelled to the match became the second person infected in the region.

More than a third of Valencia's squad became infected after the match in Milan, while on Tuesday, Atalanta announced its first positive case in goalkeeper Marco Sportiello

More than a month later, experts say the game may be one of the biggest reasons why Bergamo has become one of the epicentres of the coronavirus pandemic.

Fabiano di Marco, the chief pneumologist at the Pope John XXIII hospital in Bergamo, told Corriere della Sera the fans travelled to the match "in buses, cars, trains. A biological bomb, unfortunately."

Luca Lorini, the head of the intensive care unit at the hospital, has around 100 patients under his care with the coronavirus and there are many more in other parts of the hospital.

He said: "I'm sure that 40,000 people hugging and kissing each other while standing a centimetre apart - four times, because Atalanta scored four goals - was definitely a huge accelerator for contagion.

"Right now we're at war. When peace time comes, I can assure you we will go and see how many of the 40,000 people who went to the game became infected. Right now we have other priorities."

Bergamo Mayor Giorgio Gori said this week: "It's very probable that 40,000 Bergamaschi in the stands of San Siro, all together, exchanged the virus between them.

"Unfortunately, we couldn't have known. No one knew the virus was already here. It was inevitable."”

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3 minutes ago, lewelma said:

Time to go talk to Elon Musk.  Sounds like he is the only one finding ways to buy these things from overseas markets. 

Tesla China is buying from China on his behalf. That’s the problem with offshoring medical equipment manufacturing (and also drugs manufacturing) to the cheapest labor markets.

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2 hours ago, DoraBora said:

I don't know.  I wonder how on earth Italy become one.  Dr. Fauci theorizes it was because of the very large number of Chinese tourists, who seeded the virus in multiple spots in that country. 

It is a little known fact that many Italian businesses have been purchased slowly by China over the years. There are Chinese enclaves and settlements all over italy with continuous travel between the two countries. This gives the chinese a foothold into the ultra luxury and highly expensive marketplace which they are trying hard to break into (think of high end designer handbags and european made high end musical instruments made in Italy by Chinese workers).

For those interested in this topic: a few years ago, when greece was going through bad times, chinese businesses bought a chunk of their businesses. In Africa, many of its natural resources companies (mining, timber etc) are owned by chinese businesses. A lot of American and Canadian meat slaughtering and packaging businesses (poultry, pork etc) are owned by Chinese owners. There is a tremendous amount of traffic between china and the rest of the world on a day to day basis. Which is why this virus was bound to reach us sooner or later.

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5 minutes ago, square_25 said:

 

I have to say, if I were a governor right now, I'd swallow my pride and be as appreciative as I could muster. 😕It's worth it. 

That’s why my governor is much less “insulting” than his aunt. The Navy hospital ship Mercy (1000 beds) is now docked in Los Angeles. My nearby convention center has been converted by the national guards to be a temporary hospital for 250 patients. 

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7 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

Tesla China is buying from China on his behalf. That’s the problem with offshoring medical equipment manufacturing (and also drugs manufacturing) to the cheapest labor markets.

Yup, NZ has now restricted all prescriptions to 1 month because although we are a food exporter, we are a drug importer. I think this pandemic is going to have governments rethinking complete global interconnectedness for business processes.

So we have apparently lots and lots of masks (4 million in the storehouse) and a producer that can make 60,000/month for a population of 4 million.  But we have only a limited number of ventilators and ICU beds

A Ministry of Health (MOE) audit showed there were currently 153 intensive care beds in public hospitals and that could be expanded to just over 560 by co-opting space from other units. ....The 520 ventilators in the audit includes repurposing anaesthetic machines which have ventilators built into them, 

....the current beds available in New Zealand ICUs aren't empty and waiting for patients to get Covid-19, they are 80-90 percent full at all times so the amount of spare, available beds is low. 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, lewelma said:

.So we have apparently lots and lots of masks (4 million in the storehouse) and a producer that can make 60,000/month for a population of 4 million.  

That’s actually a low amount of mask per population. During California’s wildfire season, even with reusing n95 masks, I think many use up a few each when the smog/haze was horrible all week. 

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I’ve been keeping track of how fast deaths are doubling, both worldwide and in the US.  Here is a snapshot (these numbers are approximate and from worldometers; they also aren’t exact doubles - I picked the end-of-day numbers that were closest to the actual double. 

Worldwide deaths:

Feb 18 2000

March 9 4000 (20 days to double)

March 17 8000 (8 days to double)

March 23 16500 (6 days to double) - actual double 16000

March 28 31000 (5 days to double) - actual double 32000

 

US Deaths

March 14 57

March 17 110 (3 days to double) actual double 114

March 20 250 ( 3 days to double) actual double 228

March 23 550 (3 days to double) actual double 456

March 25 1030 (2 days to double) actual double 912

March 28 2200 (3 days to double) actual double 1824

I really hope these rates change... if they don’t, we will be looking at 250,000 total worldwide deaths and 70,000 US deaths 15 days from now. 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, lewelma said:

His self isolation is over TODAY!  But of course now the entire country is in self-isolation. Haha.

So here in NZ, we can only shop at our local grocery store and pharmacy, and we can go for walks in our local area.  We are not allowed to drive except to the local grocery store and pharmacy.  There is NO carry out food of any sort available, there is also no online shopping of any sort except groceries because all transport is for essential services only. So we are hunkering down in a 600sq foot apartment with three rooms with 2 teens and 2 parents working from home and heading into winter.  Good thing we like each other! 

I put the laughing emoji on your post, but I really mean this one: 🤪 Because I think I would quickly look like that under those parameters! 

But congrats on his isolation ending! Quarantine is such a drag. We have a bit to go for my dd. Fortunately does not seem to be sick though. 

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1 minute ago, square_25 said:

I think the US rates will double slower for a bit, because NY is quite locked down and it's driving the trend. However, they will then start doubling faster again, because other centers will become the drivers, and not everything is locked down...

 

Yes, I expect the US to seem more erratic and not clear-cut because the US is so vast and regions can be so entirely different from one another. It would compare more clearly if you compare the US to all of Europe. 

In Maryland today, our Gov just announced an outbreak in a nursing home with 66 confirmed cases. This nursing home is in the town adjacent to mine. It’s sort of...stunning. 

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8 minutes ago, square_25 said:

I think the US rates will double slower for a bit, because NY is quite locked down and it's driving the trend. However, they will then start doubling faster again, because other centers will become the drivers, and not everything is locked down...

 

 

Yes. Hopefully the recently lower ICU admissions in NY will soon translate into slower growth in the number of deaths there. But I can already see that there are several states that are starting to pick up and it’s possible that it won’t be long before their numbers start looking like NY’s. 😞😞😞

Edit: I really, really hope we see a slowdown soon.

Edited by lovelearnandlive
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48 minutes ago, square_25 said:

That's just great. I don't think I can comment on that without veering into the political. 

I have to say, if I were a governor right now, I'd swallow my pride and be as appreciative as I could muster. 😕It's worth it. 

 

I think that's basically what Newsom is doing here. He is pretty good at playing the flattery game and it seems that Trump is lapping it up.

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4 minutes ago, square_25 said:

And that's the right thing to do. Nothing else is going to work. Criticism isn't going to fly at this point. 

 

He's just good at the game.  His ex wife is still on Fox News and is or at least was dating Donald Jr.  Her politics haven't changed.  He's good at playing the game.

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The fact that people's lives may depend in their governor's willingness to kiss presidential ass is pretty horrifying. At least Pence seems to be taking his responsibilities seriously — Whitmer says she has an excellent working relationship with Pence, even if Trump is refusing to take her calls and telling Pence not to take them either.

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1 minute ago, Corraleno said:

The fact that people's lives may depend in their governor's willingness to kiss presidential ass is pretty horrifying. At least Pence seems to be taking his responsibilities seriously — Whitmer says she has an excellent working relationship with Pence, even if Trump is refusing to take her calls and telling Pence not to take them either.

 

Wholeheartedly agree.

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@square_25@CuriousMomof3

Saw this entry in NY’s donors list and have not heard of this company before. Learn something new from donors list. Facebook donated gallons of hand sanitizer. 

”Amneal: 20,000 bottles of Hydroxychloroquine”

https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/governor-cuomo-announces-significant-donations-help-increase-states-supply-capacity-amid

“A breakdown of initial donations is available below:

  • Goldman Sachs: 195,000 masks
  • Boll and Branch: 1,000 hospital mattresses
  • Restore Global: 150,000 coveralls
  • Facebook: 2,500 gallons of hand sanitizer
  • Rihanna Foundation: Various PPE supplies
  • Dominion Energy: Masks
  • L'Oréal: Hand sanitizer
  • SoftBank: 1.4 million N-95 masks
  • Suburban Propane: Propane services for generators and heaters
  • Wayfair: Mattresses, linens, sheets and pillows for field hospitals
  • Jet Blue: Free flights for incoming medical volunteers
  • Walmart: Use of parking lots and store facilities infrastructure
  • Niagara Bottling: 560,000 bottles of water
  • Keurig/Dr. Pepper: Coffee and beverages for volunteers working in the field
  • Four Seasons Hotel on 57th Street in Manhattan: Providing their facility to serve as free housing for nurses, doctors and medical personnel currently working to respond to the coronavirus outbreak
  • St Regis Hotel: Providing their facility for non-critical care patients or medical personnel
  • The Plaza Hotel: Providing their facility for non-critical care patients or medical personnel
  • Yotel: Providing their facility for non-critical care patients for a month
  • Room Mate Grace Hotel: Providing their facility to serve as free housing for nurses, doctors and medical personnel currently working to respond to the coronavirus outbreak
  • Wythe Hotel: Offering free hotel rooms through April for nurses, doctors and medical personnel currently working to respond to the coronavirus outbreak
  • Kelly Ripa and Mark Consuelos: $1 million
  • JUDY: 25,000 N-95 masks
  • Amneal: 20,000 bottles of Hydroxychloroquine
  • The Estée Lauder Companies: 10,000 hand sanitizer bottles (8 ounces each) per week for 4-5 weeks
  • Long Island Ambulatory Surgery Center: Ventilator
  • Uniqlo: 1.05 million masks
  • The Commission on Independent Colleges and Universities in New York: 12 ventilators and thousands of pieces of PPE
  • Corning Life Sciences: 60,000 15ml centrifuge tubes and 40,000 4ml cryovials
  • NBCUniversal: Medical supplies and PPE
  • Huawei: 10,000 N-95 masks; 20,000 isolation gowns; 50,000 medical goggles; and 10,000 gloves
  • Office of Attorney General Letitia James: 1,700 protective masks and 33,000 pairs of gloves”
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51 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

That’s actually a low amount of mask per population. During California’s wildfire season, even with reusing n95 masks, I think many use up a few each when the smog/haze was horrible all week. 

Boy did I get it wrong. haha. In NZ:

"Bloomfield said 200,000 masks were being produced locally each day."

 

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41 minutes ago, lovelearnandlive said:

 

Yes. Hopefully the recently lower ICU admissions in NY will soon translate into slower growth in the number of deaths there. But I can already see that there are several states that are starting to pick up and it’s possible that it won’t be long before their numbers start looking like NY’s. 😞😞😞

Edit: I really, really hope we see a slowdown soon.

 

NYC lock down was March 22. It can take 2-3 weeks to start seeing benefits from a lockdown. 

 

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17 minutes ago, square_25 said:

They had, however, slowly ramped up it up over the week before (schools were shut on that Monday the 16th, for instance.) So I'm hoping it takes a bit less time than that :-/. 

I do wish they hadn't dithered. 

Yeah, but all such decisions require public buy-in, and public buy-in requires emotional readiness, particularly when the situation doesn't appear to be that serious.  Can you imagine if any of our leaders had called a press conference three weeks ago to announce shelter in place and closing non-essential businesses?  The panic would have been terrible, and so dangerous. 

People weren't ready.  (They're still not ready if they are fleeing New York and failing to self-isolate when they get where they're going to make sure they aren't taking the virus with them.  Grrr  Did I see that someone posted about New Yorkers sightseeing in PA?  What????)

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1 hour ago, Corraleno said:

The fact that people's lives may depend in their governor's willingness to kiss presidential ass is pretty horrifying. At least Pence seems to be taking his responsibilities seriously — Whitmer says she has an excellent working relationship with Pence, even if Trump is refusing to take her calls and telling Pence not to take them either.

People criticised WHO for doing the same thing with China

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1 hour ago, Quill said:

Yes, I expect the US to seem more erratic and not clear-cut because the US is so vast and regions can be so entirely different from one another. It would compare more clearly if you compare the US to all of Europe. 

In Maryland today, our Gov just announced an outbreak in a nursing home with 66 confirmed cases. This nursing home is in the town adjacent to mine. It’s sort of...stunning. 

I agree.  Places like the upper midwest are not going to have the same level of outbreak as places along the eastern seaboard.  I don't blame people in RI and CT for trying to stop rich NYers from escaping to their areas.  

I also heard about the nursing home.  Its in the same town as some of my family.  😞  

Edited by PrincessMommy
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https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-29/coronavirus-patients-to-be-housed-at-adelaide-holiday-park/12100604?pfmredir=sm
 

a holiday park is being used to house coronavirus patients here.  It will be for those I think who don’t require a high level of care but can’t effectively be isolated at home like students or people in shared housing.

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1 hour ago, Arcadia said:

 

  • Four Seasons Hotel on 57th Street in Manhattan: Providing their facility to serve as free housing for nurses, doctors and medical personnel currently working to respond to the coronavirus outbreak
  • Room Mate Grace Hotel: Providing their facility to serve as free housing for nurses, doctors and medical personnel currently working to respond to the coronavirus outbreak
  • Wythe Hotel: Offering free hotel rooms through April for nurses, doctors and medical personnel currently working to respond to the coronavirus outbreak

Kudos to these hotels for providing free accommodations to health care providers, so they don't have the added stress of exposing their families to the virus. ❤️ 

Edited by Corraleno
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1 hour ago, Arcadia said:

@square_25@CuriousMomof3

Saw this entry in NY’s donors list and have not heard of this company before. Learn something new from donors list. Facebook donated gallons of hand sanitizer. 

”Amneal: 20,000 bottles of Hydroxychloroquine”

https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/governor-cuomo-announces-significant-donations-help-increase-states-supply-capacity-amid

“A breakdown of initial donations is available below:

  • Goldman Sachs: 195,000 masks
  • Boll and Branch: 1,000 hospital mattresses
  • Restore Global: 150,000 coveralls
  • Facebook: 2,500 gallons of hand sanitizer
  • Rihanna Foundation: Various PPE supplies
  • Dominion Energy: Masks
  • L'Oréal: Hand sanitizer
  • SoftBank: 1.4 million N-95 masks
  • Suburban Propane: Propane services for generators and heaters
  • Wayfair: Mattresses, linens, sheets and pillows for field hospitals
  • Jet Blue: Free flights for incoming medical volunteers
  • Walmart: Use of parking lots and store facilities infrastructure
  • Niagara Bottling: 560,000 bottles of water
  • Keurig/Dr. Pepper: Coffee and beverages for volunteers working in the field
  • Four Seasons Hotel on 57th Street in Manhattan: Providing their facility to serve as free housing for nurses, doctors and medical personnel currently working to respond to the coronavirus outbreak
  • St Regis Hotel: Providing their facility for non-critical care patients or medical personnel
  • The Plaza Hotel: Providing their facility for non-critical care patients or medical personnel
  • Yotel: Providing their facility for non-critical care patients for a month
  • Room Mate Grace Hotel: Providing their facility to serve as free housing for nurses, doctors and medical personnel currently working to respond to the coronavirus outbreak
  • Wythe Hotel: Offering free hotel rooms through April for nurses, doctors and medical personnel currently working to respond to the coronavirus outbreak
  • Kelly Ripa and Mark Consuelos: $1 million
  • JUDY: 25,000 N-95 masks
  • Amneal: 20,000 bottles of Hydroxychloroquine
  • The Estée Lauder Companies: 10,000 hand sanitizer bottles (8 ounces each) per week for 4-5 weeks
  • Long Island Ambulatory Surgery Center: Ventilator
  • Uniqlo: 1.05 million masks
  • The Commission on Independent Colleges and Universities in New York: 12 ventilators and thousands of pieces of PPE
  • Corning Life Sciences: 60,000 15ml centrifuge tubes and 40,000 4ml cryovials
  • NBCUniversal: Medical supplies and PPE
  • Huawei: 10,000 N-95 masks; 20,000 isolation gowns; 50,000 medical goggles; and 10,000 gloves
  • Office of Attorney General Letitia James: 1,700 protective masks and 33,000 pairs of gloves”

And a fetish site from porn hub donated scrubs!

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@Alice@wathe@TCB

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/world/covid-19-coronavirus-hospitals-snorkel-masks-to-ease-respirator-12587072

“BRUSSELS: As hospitals face an overload of COVID-19 patients struggling to breathe, innovative medical staff are turning to snorkelling masks from sports stores to stop their lungs collapsing.

The idea started in Italy, the European country worst-hit by the coronavirus pandemic, with hospitals in other nations taking note and adding their own specific medical parts to make it work.

One such is the Erasme Hospital on the outskirts of Belgium's capital Brussels. It is attached to the city's ULB university - and through it to a private spin-off, Endo Tools Therapeutics, whose knowhow in 3D printing for medical use has proved invaluable.

"They are to be used for patients with severe respiratory problems. The aim is to avoid having to intubate the trachea of the patient and put them on a respirator," said Frederic Bonnier, a respiratory physiotherapist at the hospital who also teaches at the university.

He spearheaded the design of a custom-made valve that fits to the top of full-face masks, where the snorkel is meant to go, allowing them to connect to standard BiPAP machines that feed pressurised air into masks.

This helps prevent the collapse of alveoli, lung air sacs needed for the intake of oxygen into our bodies and the exhalation of carbon dioxide. Pneumonia brought on by COVID-19 inflames the lung membrane and fills those sacs with liquid.

'STOP-GAP SOLUTION'

In the worst-case infections, patients have to be hooked up to respirators in intensive-care units.

But respirators are in desperately short supply worldwide because of the sheer number of patients.

The snorkelling mask solution could be a stop-gap measure for patients on the brink of intensive-care treatment but for whom no beds nor respirators are available. Hospital masks for the less-intensive BiPAP (bilevel positive airway pressure) machines are also lacking.

Bonnier said that from Monday he will testing 50 of the masks on patients.

They are the same brand as those used by Italian doctors, donated by the French sportswear retailer Decathlon that has stores worldwide. The masks themselves are made in Italy.”

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So, do you feel like there will be another run on the grocery stores when people get more deaths in their local area?  Supplies are being stocked more and more here in Central CA, but I think of what if the truckers get the virus or the grocery workers. 
We bought a lot of staples ( which we have been using)  and have only been out for some junk food a couple of times. Thinking I need another shopping trip though. 

How is shopping for food etc going in NYC?

I think people “tolerate” a certain level of crisis before they panic. Like, deaths in NYC and numbers seem still a little distant for a lot of people but several deaths in their own town would cause panic buying again. 

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14 minutes ago, redmom3 said:

So, do you feel like there will be another run on the grocery stores when people get more deaths in their local area?  Supplies are being stocked more and more here in Central CA, but I think of what if the truckers get the virus or the grocery workers. 
We bought a lot of staples ( which we have been using)  and have only been out for some junk food a couple of times. Thinking I need another shopping trip though. 

There is rationing at the supermarkets for items like poultry, milk, eggs depending on the supermarkets. So some people are buying whether they need to or not so that they have enough. Supplies here are uneven like we found my kid’s favorite dried mango snack at the second Costco we went so we bought two packs just in case. 

Trader Joe’s tend to run out of my kids’ favorite pork gyoza and Kung pao chicken even before the pandemic. So now the uncertainty with availability of certain food is now expanded to Costco, Safeway and Whole Foods. 

ETA: Santa Clara county 

Edited by Arcadia
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2 hours ago, Seasider too said:

 

I have been having similar feelings about this. 🙁

 

I feel the same way. I think only the most essential items should be ordered etc. I refuse to order on Amazon right now. We have been out of milk for days but I'm holding off (we have other nutrition).  I don't need specific items. When it is time to go as long as I can get any assortment of protein/veggies/ fiber I will find a way to cook it rather than go from store to store making crowds etc. I would love fresh milk, canned would work but whatever I won't go store to store or shop delivery from a bunch of places unless there actually isn't food.

My sons bike (his main transportation) is still stuck in Washington and I feel guilty leaving it in someone's garage but I feel more guilty making a delivery person work longer when we can survive without it right now. 

Edited by frogger
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So the Lyndoch/Barossa cluster has grown again so they are shutting down schools, childcare and osh.  Rest of the state is staying open till holidays.  They are advising against any non essential travel in or out of the area.  It’s the middle of vintage so they need to keep picking grapes but with a strong focus on hygiene and distancing.  

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Pm just did an update.  We are down to social gatherings of two people.  Stores can remain open based on necessity.  Rationale behind it according to pm is this will take six months so people need to stock up.  For example his wife has been buying jigsaws for the kids or people need to buy exercise equipment.  They are meeting about new financial measures.  

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13 hours ago, square_25 said:

How is Sweden doing better? 

Sweden has 341 cases/M

Norway has 724 cases/M

Denmark has 388 cases/M

Sweden's first case was reported Jan 30.  Norway and Denmark's first cases were not until about 3 1/2 weeks after that.  So, Sweden has had more time for this to spread, but has had proportionately less spread even though less extreme measures have been taken.  

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10 hours ago, HeighHo said:

That's a bit of propaganda.  The middle class is mostly at work in essential industries at the worksite, with re-arranged work rules and hours, or they are working out of the home as much as possible or because they are on fourteen day isolation due to symptoms or travel. 

The folks delivering Meals on Wheels and the JCC Senior/shut in meals are also middle class retirees. 

My neighbor owns his restaurant.  He is happy to provide takeout and he's rearranged the kitchen and staffing to keep as many employed as he can while observing the distancing and sanitation. Folks are ordering because they trust that his employees won't be at work sick and will continue to observe social distancing at home....and it does reduce their odds..they would encounter many more people at the grocery store than are handling the food at the restaurant.

Doctors, nurses, pharmacists, air traffic controllers, director of housing at universities, engineers running oil refineries are just some of those who are working.  

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One of my predictions did not come true, and I wish it had. Apologies to NY, but I did think they’d truly lock it down; at least the islands. It was actually my prediction *weeks ago, and had me worried about dh getting stuck the last time he went in. I can’t even remember when that was, but it’s been a while!

With so much pride being expressed for “shutting down” travel from China, I was surprised it took so long to consider blocking travel out of NY. As much as I’m adoring Cuomo these days, the insistence on letting people freely travel around the country (not JUST from NY, but especially) is really destroying whatever hope I might have had.

Locally, where we’re supposed to only go out for essentials, people are still trying to sell on the market place, find people to do non-essential home improvement jobs, and get together in small groups in the woods because “we’re still allowed to hike”. (Meanwhile, those people are essential workers who are exposed to many people every day.). I do think all of them believe that they’re following the regulations and recommendations. 

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1 hour ago, Bootsie said:

Sweden has 341 cases/M

Norway has 724 cases/M

Denmark has 388 cases/M

Sweden's first case was reported Jan 30.  Norway and Denmark's first cases were not until about 3 1/2 weeks after that.  So, Sweden has had more time for this to spread, but has had proportionately less spread even though less extreme measures have been taken.  

 

I don't think looking at cases tells you much here as I believe Sweden doesn't test unless it is a severe case (not sure about the other countries). Deaths are Sweden 105 vs. Norway 23 and Denmark 65. Per million in Sweden it is 10 vx. Norway 4 and Denmark 11. I think it is too early to tell how this will develop (though it seems obvious that Sweden will have more cases/deaths than other countries if the don't limit people meeting). Of course it could still turn out that their approach is good/better in the long run.

Edited by Twolittleboys
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1 hour ago, StellaM said:

 

There's also a six month moratorium on evictions (commercial and residential), and people over 70, over 60 with a chronic disease, and over 50 and Indigenous are advised to stay at home to the maximum degree possible.

Thanks was trying to listen while cooking dinner and the birds were screeching 

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8 hours ago, Arcadia said:

“BRUSSELS: As hospitals face an overload of COVID-19 patients struggling to breathe, innovative medical staff are turning to snorkelling masks from sports stores to stop their lungs collapsing.

I can say that since the FDA has loosened restrictions, dh has seen a lot of ingenuity from medical personnel. They’ve gone full  Macgyver and looked at what they have loads of in stock and how they can make PPE out of it. All of the ideas that have been building up all these years while they worked, they are thinking of ways to implement them. I know regulation and FDA approval is there to help protect us, but at some point it hinders good old American ingenuity. 

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