Jump to content

Menu

Recommended Posts

Just a comment about the face masks.

I have only noticed 1 person wearing a mask in my county, which is the largest county in a state where the governor estimated we had 100,000 undetected cases nearly 2 weeks ago.

The person I noticed wearing a mask is my kids' classmate's grandma.  I didn't ask why (none of my business) but I assumed she was wearing it because she had high risk factors (age, asthma whatever).  But my kids later told me that she is a nurse.  So I assume she is trying to prevent spread both to and from her patients as well as her family/self.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 16.7k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • Ausmumof3

    3241

  • Pen

    2468

  • Arcadia

    1337

  • prairiewindmomma

    305

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

DS got home 3 hours ago!  ❤️❤️

Update-  my youngest is not only short of breath, coughing, dizzy, nausaues, and with headache-  she is also confused.  I called our doctor and talked with him and she is going to be going to the ER.

That's not a blanket right.  If my religion required human sacrifice, I can't practice it.  If my religion required sexual assault, I can't practice it. Freedom of religion isn't a blanket right

Posted Images

I'm "buying the line" that *only* healthcare grade (and similar) masks work, and that they only work if you wear them properly (as a healthcare worker would) -- so, if so, yes the minimal airborne (rarely aresolized) risk is being mitigated for people who have those masks and know how to use them. They are not "totally useless" -- just very specific, and quite difficult to use well. I very much hope people of elevated risk do have them, and have a proper understanding of their use.

I think that healthcare workers need masks for their normal uses (keeping the germs of the *workers* out of the faces / wounds / surgical openings of their patients). I also think of them as 'elevated risk' because of their frequency and intensity of contact with actual patients, and I consider them likely to be trained and willing to put up with the discomfort, so I hope they can get the right equipment and use it properly in their risky situation.

The advice against simple paper masks and/or other makeshift solutions seems sound to me.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, square_25 said:

I think that's in conditions under no air movement. 

Don't get me wrong, we've been inside the house for 10 days, only leaving it once and getting all food delivered. This virus seems ridiculously contagious. So I'm not arguing with anyone to take fewer precautions!!!

I'm not convinced that the air swirling the droplets around, especially in my direction, makes me feel more relaxed! At least not indoors. I haven’t been wearing a mask when going for a walk, I just stay far away from others. People I've seen while out have been good about that too.  But there's no breeze in the supermarket. ..

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

The tests say the droplets stay in the air up to three hours. It was the day after I read that (and that asymptomatic, non-coughing people spew out droplets) that I stopped going to the gym.  Before that I'd been thinking "not floating in air" and "droplets are only from coughing /sneezing".  Nope on both counts. 😨 😷

Summarizing something that I read somewhere a few days ago: droplets less than 5 µm in size will start losing their water content due to evaporation and then become much smaller at which point their size makes them prone to diffusion (rather than dropping on to surfaces) which makes them linger in the air for hours and hours and they are inhalable and will deposit inside the lungs instead of the nostrils.

  • Sad 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, bolt. said:

I'm "buying the line" that *only* healthcare grade (and similar) masks work, and that they only work if you wear them properly (as a healthcare worker would) -- so, if so, yes the minimal airborne (rarely aresolized) risk is being mitigated for people who have those masks and know how to use them. They are not "totally useless" -- just very specific, and quite difficult to use well. I very much hope people of elevated risk do have them, and have a proper understanding of their use.

I think that healthcare workers need masks for their normal uses (keeping the germs of the *workers* out of the faces / wounds / surgical openings of their patients). I also think of them as 'elevated risk' because of their frequency and intensity of contact with actual patients, and I consider them likely to be trained and willing to put up with the discomfort, so I hope they can get the right equipment and use it properly in their risky situation.

The advice against simple paper masks and/or other makeshift solutions seems sound to me.

Why are they begging for donations from construction companies and hand-sewn masks, then, if it's hospital grade properly worn or don't even bother?

Sure it's not 'as good' and won't 100% guarantee no transmission like proper PPE. Doesn't mean it's not better than nothing at all.

Edited by Matryoshka
  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites

http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/03/commentary-covid-19-transmission-messages-should-hinge-science

This article might be helpful. A couple take aways for me 1) close contact aerosol (within 6 ft of infected person) is a main transmission method 2) aerosol transmission in an enclosed area with little air movement (icu room is the example they use) is possible for up to 3 hours.

In other words, social distancing of 6+ feet is just as effective as a mask in day to day activities. A waiting room, otoh, may be a good place to utilize a mask.

 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, bolt. said:

I'm "buying the line" that *only* healthcare grade (and similar) masks work, and that they only work if you wear them properly (as a healthcare worker would) -- so, if so, yes the minimal airborne (rarely aresolized) risk is being mitigated for people who have those masks and know how to use them. They are not "totally useless" -- just very specific, and quite difficult to use well. I very much hope people of elevated risk do have them, and have a proper understanding of their use.

I think that healthcare workers need masks for their normal uses (keeping the germs of the *workers* out of the faces / wounds / surgical openings of their patients). I also think of them as 'elevated risk' because of their frequency and intensity of contact with actual patients, and I consider them likely to be trained and willing to put up with the discomfort, so I hope they can get the right equipment and use it properly in their risky situation.

The advice against simple paper masks and/or other makeshift solutions seems sound to me.

I'm really not meaning to be argumentative, but -- wearing a mask properly, even an N95, isn't exactly rocket science. A surgical mask is even simpler. I mean it's a mask with elastic ear loops. That's it. When we were at the cancer center last week and there was a *tiny* question that DH *might* have Covid 19 the nurse shoved masks at us to put on. No one was going "OMG we need to show you how to wear them properly." They're self explanatory for anyone who's had much medical care or even watched one of those doctor TV shows (and I say that despite the reports of true doofuses wearing them over their mouth but not their nose). N95s are a bit trickier, but there are lots of very good videos showing how to adjust one properly. It ain't hard.

  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites

@mathnerd@Chrysalis Academy

Announcement on Facebook

“March 24, 2020 Joint Press Release: Seven Bay Area Jurisdictions Order Laboratories Testing for COVID-19 to Report More Comprehensive Testing Data to State and Local Authorities. 

Full County of Santa Clara Public Health Department Press Release: https://www.sccgov.org/sites/phd/news/Pages/press-release-03-24-2020.aspx.  

For more information about COVID-19 activities in these areas, visit:

Alameda - http://www.acphd.org

Contra Costa - https://www.contracosta.ca.gov/CivicAlerts.aspx

Marin - http://www.acphd.org

San Francisco - https://www.sfdph.org/dph/alerts/coronavirus.asp

San Mateo - https://www.smchealth.org/coronavirus

Berkeley - https://www.cityofberkeley.info/coronavirus

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Matryoshka said:

Why are they begging for donations from construction companies and hand-sewn masks, then, if it's hospital grade properly worn or don't even bother?

Sure it's not 'as good' and won't 100% guarantee no transmission like proper PPE. Doesn't mean it's not better than nothing at,all.

I looked it up, and found only one hospital in Canada is, "accepting N95 respirator masks, which are able to filter out tiny particles, surgical masks that contain coughs, vented goggles, protective gloves and gowns." No one is asking for (or even accepting) hand-sewn masks, expired goods, or even opened packages here.

Presumably the N95 masks will be used for Covid risks to the staff, and the surgical masks (that don't stop viruses) for surgery as usual --  or maybe for patients to prevent droplets from coughs etc from getting very far.

This collection of useful donations is consistent with the advice given about which equipment is valuable in various situations. So, if they are wrong -- I suppose that's possible... but they are consistent about it. There's no indication that they don't believe their own messages.

Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Pawz4me said:

I'm really not meaning to be argumentative, but -- wearing a mask properly, even an N95, isn't exactly rocket science. A surgical mask is even simpler. I mean it's a mask with elastic ear loops. That's it. When we were at the cancer center last week and there was a *tiny* question that DH *might* have Covid 19 the nurse shoved masks at us to put on. No one was going "OMG we need to show you how to wear them properly." They're self explanatory for anyone who's had much medical care or even watched one of those doctor TV shows (and I say that despite the reports of true doofuses wearing them over their mouth but not their nose). N95s are a bit trickier, but there are lots of very good videos showing how to adjust one properly. It ain't hard.

Using ear loop masks to prevent outward transmission isn't what the public advice is aimed at -- although outward transmission can definitely be mitigated by those non-N95 mask, which are easy to use. They catch coughs... it is helpful.

The public info is about whether those masks protect *you* from airborne viruses. They don't.

People with symptoms are not being advised to go out in a mask: public heath wouldn't want to suggest that such actions are at all safe. Instead people with symptoms are being required to stay home. I'm sure they are being given masks if they come into clinics or hospitals though... and not the N95 kind, just the cough-catching kind.

Edited by bolt.
Link to post
Share on other sites

We have not been wearing masks because DH is Asian and the kids look pretty Asian too.   There are very few East Asians here and my family has had more than its fair share of unpleasant interactions over the past 6 weeks.  We are of course very relieved that this sort of perspective has not been in any way reinforced by any Israeli government officials.  Still, the last thing they need is to be even more conspicuous or imply that they are sick, and none of them have entered a store or been at all near other people for many days anyway.  I do all shopping alone, and at this point if I had a mask I would probably wear one.

Anyway, update from Israel:  1656 cases, 3 deaths. Of 1607 currently active cases, 31 are serious.  We are on mostly-lockdown (basically, stricter than anywhere in the US but not quite Italy) and there were lots more police out today.  The government was supposed to announce new restrictions nearly an hour ago but no word yet.  Rumors are that we will not be able to go more than 100 meters from home unless for groceries or medical reasons.

In addition to the cellphone tracking program, the Health Ministry also publishes a map of all public places that infected people have spent time in.  You can definitely see how over time certain communities come to be more affected than others.  In the early days of the pandemic, before the borders were closed, my neighborhood -- which is very popular with tourists and expats -- had lots of points of contact.  Now it has none, but other neighborhoods have many more.

Government researchers also published a very interesting summary about how people have come to be infected.  As of March 22, 47% had been infected abroad, 35% were infected in Israel by being in contact with a known patient, 5% were infected at home by a family member, and for 13% the source was unknown.

Of the 35% infected inside Israel by coming into contact with a known patient, by far the most common place to be infected was a synagogue.  24% were infected in a synagogue, 15% in hotels, 12% restaurants, 7% supermarkets, 7% other stores, 5% yeshivas (religious schools for men), 5% medical clinics, 3% schools, and 3% nursing homes.  (I do not know why exactly the numbers don't add up to 100% -- the study is in Hebrew and I have only read English summaries so far.)

Edited by JennyD
  • Like 3
  • Sad 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, bolt. said:

I looked it up, and found only one hospital in Canada is, "accepting N95 respirator masks, which are able to filter out tiny particles, surgical masks that contain coughs, vented goggles, protective gloves and gowns." No one is asking for (or even accepting) hand-sewn masks, expired goods, or even opened packages here.

Presumably the N95 masks will be used for Covid risks to the staff, and the surgical masks (that don't stop viruses) for surgery as usual --  or maybe for patients to prevent droplets from coughs etc from getting very far.

This collection of useful donations is consistent with the advice given about which equipment is valuable in various situations. So, if they are wrong -- I suppose that's possible... but they are consistent about it. There's no indication that they don't believe their own messages.

I'm not in Canada. Here there are pleas all over the media, airwaves and social, for people to donate hand-sewn masks, and pages with patterns and links to hospitals near you that are accepting them. Every day we hear news from construction companies and landscape companies who have donated theirs with thanks from the hospitals. Heck Facebook itself donated a ton it had bought for their employees in case the wildfires got too bad there.

You're in a country whose pandemic response team wasn't fired a few years ago, and whose national stockpile hasn't been replenished in years.  My guess is the situation with,supplies there is not so dire. Here, medical staff is being told to wear bandanas if they have nothing else.  Bandanas. 

  • Like 6
Link to post
Share on other sites

The hospital my husband works for is desperately collecting donations of masks, including masks used for construction, but they are not currently accepting the sewn masks that all my friends are gung ho about making.  I don't want to step on anyone's toes, because everyone wants to feel like they're helping at this time, and if I had a mask, I might wear it to the grocery store.  But the hospital isn't accepting them yet.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Fwiw Dh works in manufacturing and they use masks for various jobs but because of their diversion to the medical field for all masks to the medical field they are running out.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Dotwithaperiod said:

 I’ve decided to assume that everyone I see walking around is sick, so hurray to anyone who wears a mask! Just think, maybe we could slow this down even more if every single person had access to a mask and understood how to use it.

This is what I think. 

I have four cloth, reusable masks I bought from Amazon before I went on my trip. I bought them not really knowing how this was about to turn out but figured, eh, might as well; if this virus blows up while I’m in Europe, I will want it coming home. Which is exactly what happened. And now, I use it when I’m interacting with dd while she is in quarantine (she wears one, too). I’m so grateful I have them.

I had to go to stores today and I wore my mask. My feeling is this: maybe it will not help if I’m going to get the virus, but - who knows - maybe it will. I have the mask; might as well use it! But also, I am wearing it because I cannot be certain I am not sick! AFAIK, i’m not sick, but with a kid who just returned from France and is still in the quarantine period, I cannot be certain. So, even if the mask was not doing diddly to keep me from getting sick, it might be keeping my germy breath from unwittingly infecting the pharmacist or the poor grocery cashier. 

  • Like 6
Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

I'm not in Canada. Here there are pleas all over the media, airwaves and social, for people to donate hand-sewn masks, and pages with patterns and links to hospitals near you that are accepting them. Every day we hear news from construction companies and landscape companies who have donated theirs with thanks from the hospitals. Heck Facebook itself donated a ton it had bought for their employees in case the wildfires got too bad there.

You're in a country whose pandemic response team wasn't fired a few years ago, and whose national stockpile hasn't been replenished in years.  My guess is the situation with,supplies there is not so dire. Here, medical staff is being told to wear bandanas if they have nothing else.  Bandanas. 

Wow. I'm sorry things are so deep in your area.

I get that sometimes anything is better than an uncovered face -- while working with patients.

I also get that if *we* can't be sure we don't have the virus, we might as well wear a mask for the sake of others: if we happen to have one.

I wonder if the cloth and other non-N95 masks are used more for the patients than the staff? Just as cough stoppers? The hospital would still need non-virus-stopping masks for some things, so if they have a source for cloth masks, it could alleviate pressure on other higher functioning masks.

Edited by bolt.
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Terabith said:

The hospital my husband works for is desperately collecting donations of masks, including masks used for construction, but they are not currently accepting the sewn masks that all my friends are gung ho about making.  I don't want to step on anyone's toes, because everyone wants to feel like they're helping at this time, and if I had a mask, I might wear it to the grocery store.  But the hospital isn't accepting them yet.

Yet.

They are begging for them here and we aren’t a hot zone featured on tv. 
 

Eta- these are healthcare workers seeking people to make them some for their own personal use.

Edited by Paige
  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

I feel like this is a stupid question, but re masks, how can they keep germs from spreading from someone but not to someone?

I feel like the message is that healthcare workers need them for personal protection, but they won't protect the average person from getting the virus, but if you're sick you should wear one.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Quill said:

This is what I think. 

I have four cloth, reusable masks I bought from Amazon before I went on my trip. I bought them not really knowing how this was about to turn out but figured, eh, might as well; if this virus blows up while I’m in Europe, I will want it coming home. Which is exactly what happened. And now, I use it when I’m interacting with dd while she is in quarantine (she wears one, too). I’m so grateful I have them.

I had to go to stores today and I wore my mask. My feeling is this: maybe it will not help if I’m going to get the virus, but - who knows - maybe it will. I have the mask; might as well use it! But also, I am wearing it because I cannot be certain I am not sick! AFAIK, i’m not sick, but with a kid who just returned from France and is still in the quarantine period, I cannot be certain. So, even if the mask was not doing diddly to keep me from getting sick, it might be keeping my germy breath from unwittingly infecting the pharmacist or the poor grocery cashier. 

Yes!!!

None of us knows for certain that we don't have covid-19. If I wear a mask, it contributes to me not spreading my germs around.

I've wanted mask wearing to be normalized in the US as it is in parts of Asia for a long time.

  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, EmseB said:

I feel like this is a stupid question, but re masks, how can they keep germs from spreading from someone but not to someone?

I feel like the message is that healthcare workers need them for personal protection, but they won't protect the average person from getting the virus, but if you're sick you should wear one.

 

If a person coughs or sneezes, they expel tiny droplets of water mixed without other things--like viruses. A cloth mask will catch many of these and prevent them from spreading into the air and falling onto surfaces. Also prevents folks from, say, wiping their nose with their hand, then using that hand to open a door.

A mask on my face can still help filter out droplets from someone who sneezes right next to me--but it traps those droplets next to my face not theirs, which leaves me still at risk.

One reason masks do more good on the face of a sick person is that they keep a significant portion of potentially expelled viruses from ever entering the larger environment. 

Most non-respirator masks can't filter out smaller, aerosol viral particles. These stay in the air much longer.

Edited by maize
  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Paige said:

A little off topic but if anyone is looking for gloves, Home Science Tools has a whole bunch. 

I saw a bunch at Lowe's last week. No masks, but lots of gloves.

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, maize said:

 

If a person coughs or sneezes, they expel tiny droplets of water mixed without other things--like viruses. A cloth mask will catch many of these and prevent them from spreading into the air and falling onto surfaces. Also prevents folks from, say, wiping their nose with their hand, then using that hand to open a door.

A mask on my face can still help filter out droplets from someone who sneezes right next to me--but it traps those droplets next to me face not theirs, which leaves me still at risk.

One reason masks do more good on the face of a sick person is that they keep a significant portion of potentially expelled viruses from ever entering the larger environment. 

Most non-respirator masks can't filter out smaller, aerosol viral particles. These stay in the air much longer.

But wouldn't that same filter work in reverse? If they are filtering droplets and not smaller aerosol viral particles, isn't that true both ways?

I'm really not trying to be deliberately obtuse, I promise. I am genuinely not understanding why a mask would be considered good PPE for a healthcare worker and not for average joe on the street, all other things being equal.

ETA: I'm wondering this because I think the messaging is not to hoard masks because they won't help keep you from getting sick, but healthcare workers need them to keep from getting sick. I think that message makes Average Joe suspicious and more likely to hoard masks, tbh.

Edited by EmseB
  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, DoraBora said:

Is there a glove shortage?

I've seen people in my area saying they are running out of latex free gloves. We can't find them locally at all which was a problem because I'd planned to do our dissections this week and hadn't bought gloves yet. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, EmseB said:

But wouldn't that same filter work in reverse? If they are filtering droplets and not smaller aerosol viral particles, isn't that true both ways?

I'm really not trying to be deliberately obtuse, I promise. I am genuinely not understanding why a mask would be considered good PPE for a healthcare worker and not for average joe on the street, all other things being equal.

ETA: I'm wondering this because I think the messaging is not to hoard masks because they won't help keep you from getting sick, but healthcare workers need them to keep from getting sick. I think that message makes Average Joe suspicious and more likely to hoard masks, tbh.

You're probably right about the messaging to "Average Joe"... and that's unfortuate.

The distinction is in the concept of viruses being suspended in liquid.

If a whole droplet hits a loose-filter mask, the diameter of the droplet matters. Depending on the filtration mesh, either the whole droplet will stop: together with all of the suspended viruses, or the whole droplet will pass through. Droplets too large for the mesh (unlike gasses) will not just break apart and carry on their trajectory. So, a cough has a variety of droplet sizes going on: from large visible splatters to microscopic sizes. So does breathing, yawning, etc. even ordinary exhaling.

So a person with viruses in their bodily fluids is constantly expelling them in various sized droplets. If they wear a loose-mesh mask (fabric mask / dentist mask) a lot of those virus containing droplets will be stopped. They won't get on the cereal boxes or cart handles in anywhere near the same quantity. Some (the smallest droplets) will escape: but quantity matters.

So, then, you're a healthy person breathing public air. The big heavy droplets from the sick person have been caught by their masks, or if they aren't wearing a mask, they fairly quickly fall to the ground, or stick to the cereal box... but the finest ones are still in your breathing air -- mostly because they are light and fall more slowly. If you are wearing no mask, you breathe in those super-fine droplets together with all of their viruses. If you are wearing a loose-mesh mask, you breathe them in too -- because they are very small and suspended in the air. They pass through your mesh. You are only protected if you wear a mask with a virus-by-virus level of mesh.

So, it is true that a properly worn virus-level-mesh mask will be protective against you *getting* the virus... you can see why a cloth or simple mask would not be effective.

However a cloth or simple mask would be quite helpful (but not totally containing) for someone who might be sick and should be expelling as few droplets as possible.

Edited by bolt.
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Paige said:

I've seen people in my area saying they are running out of latex free gloves. We can't find them locally at all which was a problem because I'd planned to do our dissections this week and hadn't bought gloves yet. 

Community college bookstores and university bookstores might have stock of nitrile gloves. The vet school uses them.

e.g. this is what my local community college sells for its students  http://books.foothill.edu/merchdetail?MerchID=1455375&num=0&start=&end=&type=1&CategoryName=LAB SUPPLIES&CatID=9286&Name=LAB SUPPLIES

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
58 minutes ago, bolt. said:

Wow. I'm sorry things are so deep in your area.

I get that sometimes anything is better than an uncovered face -- while working with patients.

I also get that if *we* can't be sure we don't have the virus, we might as well wear a mask for the sake of others: if we happen to have one.

I wonder if the cloth and other non-N95 masks are used more for the patients than the staff? Just as cough stoppers? The hospital would still need non-virus-stopping masks for some things, so if they have a source for cloth masks, it could alleviate pressure on other higher functioning masks.

I'm pretty sure that there are places in the USA right now that don't have virus stopping masks for use when doing high risk procedures like intubations. I saw a picture of an anesthesiologist who put on some nasal cannula so he could breath and then put a plastic bag over his head while he intubated someone.

  • Sad 9
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, TCB said:

I'm pretty sure that there are places in the USA right now that don't have virus stopping masks for use when doing high risk procedures like intubations. I saw a picture of an anesthesiologist who put on some nasal cannula so he could breath and then put a plastic bag over his head while he intubated someone.

I'm so sorry!

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Quill said:

This is what I think. 

I have four cloth, reusable masks I bought from Amazon before I went on my trip. I bought them not really knowing how this was about to turn out but figured, eh, might as well; if this virus blows up while I’m in Europe, I will want it coming home. Which is exactly what happened. And now, I use it when I’m interacting with dd while she is in quarantine (she wears one, too). I’m so grateful I have them.

I had to go to stores today and I wore my mask. My feeling is this: maybe it will not help if I’m going to get the virus, but - who knows - maybe it will. I have the mask; might as well use it! But also, I am wearing it because I cannot be certain I am not sick! AFAIK, i’m not sick, but with a kid who just returned from France and is still in the quarantine period, I cannot be certain. So, even if the mask was not doing diddly to keep me from getting sick, it might be keeping my germy breath from unwittingly infecting the pharmacist or the poor grocery cashier. 

how are you doing your quarantine?  We have a daughter coming home this week & are trying to plan how to do this!

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

@mathnerd@Pen@pitterpatter@Quill@Garga

News link https://abc7news.com/6046360/

Joann link https://www.joann.com/make-to-give-response/
“Crafts chain Joann Stores is making all of its 800-plus stores available for up to 10 people at each location to sew masks and hospital gowns, offering sewing machines and supplies, spokeswoman Amanda Hayes said.

Hayes said the number of people allowed in the stores adheres to CDC guidelines, the sewing stations will be six feet apart and staff will continuously sanitize the work areas and materials. The company also has special kits for customers who want to make masks at home.

"We're enabling people to feel like they are contributing at a time when we don't have control," Hayes said.”

  • Like 8
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, TCB said:

I'm pretty sure that there are places in the USA right now that don't have virus stopping masks for use when doing high risk procedures like intubations. I saw a picture of an anesthesiologist who put on some nasal cannula so he could breath and then put a plastic bag over his head while he intubated someone.

If we went by how much a casual hospital visit costs (flu vaccine, well child checkup), leaving out the astronomical costs of medical procedures and CEO pay packages, I am frustrated that hospitals  are sending in employees to work without protection and that most of the workers are assuming that they already have covid infection. When this is over, we need some oversight on how hospitals allocate resources and funding and how “just in time” inventory systems simply fall apart during times of crisis, especially if foreign sources are the basis of supply chains. I am just sad that people are making cotton masks for health care providers when the entire country could have been proactive in February about crisis planning 😞

Edited by mathnerd
  • Like 6
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, bolt. said:

I'm "buying the line" that *only* healthcare grade (and similar) masks work, and that they only work if you wear them properly (as a healthcare worker would) -- so, if so, yes the minimal airborne (rarely aresolized) risk is being mitigated for people who have those masks and know how to use them. They are not "totally useless" -- just very specific, and quite difficult to use well. I very much hope people of elevated risk do have them, and have a proper understanding of their use.

I think that healthcare workers need masks for their normal uses (keeping the germs of the *workers* out of the faces / wounds / surgical openings of their patients). I also think of them as 'elevated risk' because of their frequency and intensity of contact with actual patients, and I consider them likely to be trained and willing to put up with the discomfort, so I hope they can get the right equipment and use it properly in their risky situation.

The advice against simple paper masks and/or other makeshift solutions seems sound to me.

 

This is what convinced me to wear a mask, even a cloth one: https://smartairfilters.com/en/blog/best-materials-make-diy-face-mask-virus/

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites
59 minutes ago, Eliana said:

how are you doing your quarantine?  We have a daughter coming home this week & are trying to plan how to do this!

I will outline what we are doing. If someone reading along is thinking of criticizing me, don’t. I’m doing the best I can with an imperfect situation.

1. Dd has sort of a “suite” with a bedroom, bathroom and room I used to use for homeschooling. She stays in these three rooms about 95% of the time. When she comes out, she sanitizes her hands and wears a mask. She doesn’t come out except for dinner and sometimes lunch (discussed below). 

2. She texts me in the morning and I bring her coffee and breakfast on a tray, masked and gloved. I mostly am using disposable dining ware, but I don’t have every single item disposable, so some items are not. (Coffee cup, for example.) When she finishes eating, I retrieve her items, gloved and masked, and immediately thoroughly wash the tray and non-disposable ware. I throw away the disposables. 

3. For dinner and sometimes lunch, we eat on the patio if the weather is agreeable. This way, we can sort of eat “together,” though there is six or more feet between family members. We have a little firepit thingy, which dh built a fire in last Friday, which was very nice. 

4. A few nights, the patio hasn’t worked bc of rain and too cold. In this case, she eats her dinner at the farthest end of the kitchen table, I stood about ten feet away at the kitchen counter, and dh and ds ate in the dining room. This is close enough to sort of still be eating “together” while reducing interaction.

5. I’m “funniest” about fear of contaminating food. I don’t let her investigate the food or serve herself or get things out of the fridge or pantry herself. I handle salt shakers or whatever condiments myself. When she eats in the kitchen, I immediately wipe down the table and area with wipes. 

6. When she arrived home from France, we left her suitcases in the garage for a couple of days. She used wipes for things like her phone, laptop, etc. I had a thread on here about containment of her Europe things; I’ll try to link that in a bit. There was good advice in there. 

7. Weather permitting, I urge her to go outside daily. She pets the kitty or walks around. She also has a yoga mat and weights to use in the former homeschool room.  She takes her temperature in the morning and night. 

8. I did her Europe laundry gloved and masked and used color-safe bleach and an extra rinse in the load. She wears easy-wash clothes while quarantined; nothing like a fragile sweater or something. I will do her laundry gloved and masked until she is finished quarantine. 

9. That’s about it. If I go in her room, it is gloved and masked. Ds sometimes stands and talks to her at her doorway unmasked and w/o gloves, which isn’t exactly what I prefer. I absorb some criticism because I take it more seriously than anyone else, though thankfully, I don’t get pushback from dd herself. She hasn’t, for example, said anything dumb like she just has to see her bf or bff or something. She uses FT and plays digital games with bf or friends, so I guess she accepts that for now. I did put a small table up in her room because she wanted to do a puzzle. I don’t assume I will sterilize the puzzle pieces but I won’t be doing that puzzle myself until the virus could have died off! 

PS. I recognize my privilege in having a big house with spacious rooms and plenty of places for people to be. I hope you have a workable situation as well! 

Edited by Quill
Link to thread added
  • Like 27
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Garga said:

 

This is what convinced me to wear a mask, even a cloth one: https://smartairfilters.com/en/blog/best-materials-make-diy-face-mask-virus/

Thank you! That's good information, and it makes sense with the science I already understood -- but applied it to real world conditions better than I could have. (I wasn't thinking in terms of 'percent passing through' of things the same size... I had imagined the size being an all-through or all-stopped factor.)

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

My school district just extended their closure until April 24, and the larger County system is “until further notice”. I tried my first piano lesson today via Zoom, and it was OK...not great, but better than going weeks without lessons. 

  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asia/indonesia-cancels-national-exams--affecting-more-than-8-million-students-12572030

“JAKARTA: Indonesia has cancelled the country's upcoming National Examination over concerns about the spread of coronavirus, a move that will affect more than eight million high school students, education minister Nadiem Makarim said on Tuesday (Mar 24).

The decision came as the Southeast Asian country announced its biggest daily rise in coronavirus cases, bringing the total number of people infected to 686, with 55 deaths.

"What's most important is the safety and the health of our students and their family and their grandparents," Makarim said during a televised broadcast.

The national exams had been due to be held in two phases, starting on Mar 30 and Apr 20.”

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Quill said:

I will outline what we are doing. If someone reading along is thinking of criticizing me, don’t. I’m doing the best I can with an imperfect situation.

1. Dd has sort of a “suite” with a bedroom, bathroom and room I used to use for homeschooling. She stays in these three rooms about 95% of the time. When she comes out, she sanitizes her hands and wears a mask. She doesn’t come out except for dinner and sometimes lunch (discussed below). 

2. She texts me in the morning and I bring her coffee and breakfast on a tray, masked and gloved. I mostly am using disposable dining ware, but I don’t have every single item disposable, so some items are not. (Coffee cup, for example.) When she finishes eating, I retrieve her items, gloved and masked, and immediately thoroughly wash the tray and non-disposable ware. I throw away the disposables. 

3. For dinner and sometimes lunch, we eat on the patio if the weather is agreeable. This way, we can sort of eat “together,” though there is six or more feet between family members. We have a little firepit thingy, which dh built a fire in last Friday, which was very nice. 

4. A few nights, the patio hasn’t worked bc of rain and too cold. In this case, she eats her dinner at the farthest end of the kitchen table, I stood about ten feet away at the kitchen counter, and dh and ds ate in the dining room. This is close enough to sort of still be eating “together” while reducing interaction.

5. I’m “funniest” about fear of contaminating food. I don’t let her investigate the food or serve herself or get things out of the fridge or pantry herself. I handle salt shakers or whatever condiments myself. When she eats in the kitchen, I immediately wipe down the table and area with wipes. 

6. When she arrived home from France, we left her suitcases in the garage for a couple of days. She used wipes for things like her phone, laptop, etc. I had a thread on here about containment of her Europe things; I’ll try to link that in a bit. There was good advice in there. 

7. Weather permitting, I urge her to go outside daily. She pets the kitty or walks around. She also has a yoga mat and weights to use in the former homeschool room.  She takes her temperature in the morning and night. 

8. I did her Europe laundry gloved and masked and used color-safe bleach and an extra rinse in the load. She wears easy-wash clothes while quarantined; nothing like a fragile sweater or something. I will do her laundry gloved and masked until she is finished quarantine. 

9. That’s about it. If I go in her room, it is gloved and masked. Ds sometimes stands and talks to her at her doorway unmasked and w/o gloves, which isn’t exactly what I prefer. I absorb some criticism because I take it more seriously than anyone else, though thankfully, I don’t get pushback from dd herself. She hasn’t, for example, said anything dumb like she just has to see her bf or bff or something. She uses FT and plays digital games with bf or friends, so I guess she accepts that for now. I did put a small table up in her room because she wanted to do a puzzle. I don’t assume I will sterilize the puzzle pieces but I won’t be doing that puzzle myself until the virus could have died off! 

PS. I recognize my privilege in having a big house with spacious rooms and plenty of places for people to be. I hope you have a workable situation as well! 

Thank you so much for taking the time to describe what you're doing!  It's incredibly helpful to have a lived, non-textbook description of how you're making this work!

We don't have a suite, so she'll be in one room & need to come out for the bathroom - we're trying to set up how to make sure things are sanitized each time.  The one meal we're thinking about trying to do together in some fashion is the first Seder.  She was supposed to home sooner, but the airline keeps rescheduling....

Outside is a great idea! thank you!  Dh joked that it would be strange to have a big holiday meal outside without the Sukkah (and he's right!), but it will be warmer and, I hope, drier, than it often is in the fall, so it might work perfectly.

Laundry is going to be challenging - most of her clothes are in NYC where she'd been in school.  Thanks for the reminder that we need a plan for that too.

No criticisms at all - lots of admiration for your hard work!    When I was in the ER last week (8 days of fever, chest tightness, mild congestion + some cardiac symptoms w/cardiac history. Results = negative COVID 19 test, no heart attack just low potassium, still supposed to be isolating until symptoms are gone.- I still think my doctor's office overreacted in sending me in, was relieved the hospital wasn't overloaded & I wasn't being a burden on the system) & the doctor was talking about how to do isolation she emphasized making it consistently do-able, and not letting the perfect be the enemy of the possible.  It was very encouraging! 

BTW, I was so relieved when your daughter made it back to you!  So many hard choices being made in all of this & figuring out where our young adults should be, and if we should bring them home, is one of the harder ones. 

Thank you again for sharing from your experiences. ❤️

  • Like 12
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Aerosolization is just the description of the physics mechanism—they are small and light enough to be carried on the air.

In a sneeze, the particles less than 5 microns or so float in the air.

There has been an artificial construct for discussion on which masks are safe to use. 
 

Generally, large volumes of aerosolized particles happen when you manipulate the large airways—manual vent with bag and mask, endotrach suction, cpr, intubation, nebulizer therapy, bipap/cpap....but it’s not like an either/or dichotomy. You can have a sneeze that generates both droplets and aerosolized particles.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

No criticism, Quill -- totally admiring you over here! A few ideas, in case you are still brainstorming or improving.

Have you considered having her put the disposable dishes in a trash of her own?

Also, you could pass in a damp soapy cloth for her to wipe her high-touch surfaces daily.

Do you have a mesh laundry bag that you could keep her laundry together through the whole laundry process, limiting the number of individual items you touch yourself?

Edited by bolt.
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...