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gardenmom5

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27 minutes ago, StellaM said:

 

Yes. On paracetemol. I bought more today after taking the ibuprofen out of the 'if we get fever' kit. It was roughly 40% more. 

Panadol on Singapore stores are manufactured in Malaysia. So not all are manufactured in India.

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41 minutes ago, Dotwithaperiod said:

 Seeing that most kids are not homeschooled, being out of school from mid March thru possibly May or longer will probably be something that leaves a lasting impact. 

Well, I wasn't mentioning it in terms of impact on most vs my kids.

I was mentioning my personal situation.  I am beginning to realize just how bizarre my life is compared to most others.....and even compared to 20 yrs ago.  It has come on so naturally and time has gone on, but, yeah...so different.

 

Back when my oldest was around the age of my younger kids, which is around the 9/11 time frame....so much of what is shutting down would have affected us in a *major* way.  Dh and I worked for a travel company (and yeah, 9/11 did totally affect that....lots of changes.)   We were both working, we ate out a lot, DD was in things like softball, soccer, she was in school, we even attended church occasionally.  

It's such a different world and this whole situation is highlighting to me HOW different and and how that so easily changed when I wasn't looking.  

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59 minutes ago, square_25 said:

Some projections from the UK: 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/15/uk-coronavirus-crisis-to-last-until-spring-2021-and-could-see-79m-hospitalised

What does everyone make of the UK response? Do you have any idea why they've settled on the "We'll just ride it out without changing much" tactic? Are they not worried about hospitals overflowing? 

experience keeps a hard school, and a fool will learn in no other.

58 minutes ago, StellaM said:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/d5jqdmsxgwrjz6v/ICU_beds.pdf?dl=0&fbclid=IwAR2vkKUC8YXDEGvMgpsa700FHx8JMkFUvRj6lMdpoWef1-fjAQGXZJ5130c

From Public Health academics re Boris Johnson's 'herd immunity' approach. Conservative modelling ? Half as many ICU beds as needed, just for the most healthy cohort 20-40yrs.

That doesn't include 40-70yr olds, so I'm not sure what would happen to them.

from both of these"

It sounds like eugenics.  they're going to be making the choices they're making now in Italy.  some people are being left to die because they can't handle the influx.  Since it's mostly "retired/pensioner/infirm"s who will die, that lowers overall costs after the virus has gone through.  (lower gov't benefits.)
 

think of the scene in Monty Python's Holy Grail: Bring out your dead - but I'm not dead . . . 

29 minutes ago, Plum said:

Our chamber of commerce had a press conference to address hoarding and the lines at grocery stores. They said there is plenty of food supply in the chain, they are just having trouble getting it here. The distribution centers are taking up to 6hours to fill a truck because they are so backed up. Truckers were only allowed 11hr shifts. With the state of emergency enacted, they can extend that. Truckers can rest while waiting for their truck to be filled and then head straight out. I did notice preshredded cheese was a little more money. I would guess it has more to do with logistics than price gouging. 

here grocery stores are cutting hours - and hiring more workers just so they can restock!

Edited by gardenmom5
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https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/starbucks-to-close-some-cafes-move-to-to-go-model-in-rest/2254921/
“Starbucks says it's moving to a to-go model for all its stores in the U.S. and Canada for at least two weeks over concern about the new coronavirus.

The Seattle-based coffee giant said Sunday it is closing seating in its cafes and patio areas, but customers can still order at the counter, at drive-throughs or on the Starbucks app.

The company will also temporarily close stores in what it calls "high social-gathering locations," such as malls and university campuses, and it will close stores or reduce hours in areas where there are clusters of COVID-19 cases.”

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1 minute ago, StellaM said:

Slightly amusing story today after kind posters like @DoraBora did a little bit of CBT on me (where's the evidence?)...my dad took me shopping and the first thing he said was 'we're going to make the kids' bank accounts one to sign in case you die.' It actually made me chuckle a bit, he pulls no punches. 

Thanks, Dad!  😊

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1 hour ago, Arcadia said:


Supermarkets are changing their store hours. Check before going. 

e.g. TJ change to 9am to 7pm from tomorrow onwards

9796A43F-317D-4369-9628-C81A9F89C3D7.jpeg

 

Dh said that the supermarkets here are changing hours and the first hour is only open for retirees or people with disabilities & their carers. I thought that was a good idea.

Also, wholesalers for food industry. Dh (baker) picked up some supplies there, so we'll at least be able to live off bread forever 😄

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8 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

experience keeps a hard school, and a fool will learn in no other.

I'm afraid this is true and will be our downfall. So many older adults here are in denial about this virus. They say - it's overblown or the media is just silly and it's no worse than the flu. And so on. The very people who are in the high risk category are scorning social distancing - they are headed out shopping, eating out, etc. I don't understand. 

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1 minute ago, Bambam said:

I'm afraid this is true and will be our downfall. So many older adults here are in denial about this virus. They say - it's overblown or the media is just silly and it's no worse than the flu. And so on. The very people who are in the high risk category are scorning social distancing - they are headed out shopping, eating out, etc. I don't understand. 

they probably think if their parents could live through the Spanish flu, it's no big deal.  But, their parents were younger than they are now.

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2 hours ago, Lang Syne Boardie said:

I have a question, if anybody knows:

What is the absolute earliest date that Covid19 might have been in the USA? I have heard of November to January, as far as anecdotal accounts of severe flu-that-wasn't-the-flu and took a long time to shake.

The reason I ask is because in April/May, I had all the symptoms. Fever, dry cough, and regular cold symptoms including stuffy/runny nose but that part ended in less than two weeks and was mild. In the second week, the illness progressed to a bad lower respiratory infection that didn't show as bronchitis or anything specific, I never got a chest x-ray but three kinds of antibiotics didn't touch it, and it took me over two months to shake it. I wasn't hospitalized because while I was short of breath, I could breathe and even get some sleep if I was propped up. But it was absolutely ghastly and I missed three of my kids' high school and college graduation ceremonies, with an illness that I'd contracted two months before. And then I had diminished lung function for about six months -- couldn't sing, and got winded sometimes when walking. 

Is there any chance this has been here that long?

Last April my son was hospitalized with a nasty version of human-metapneumo virus. It’s another “common cold” virus but last year’s version was something else. We know exactly what it was because they sent out a full viral panel when the flu swabs came back negative. I heard a lot of stories of people with a rough virus around that time and I’m convinced that it was the same as what he had. 
 

ETA: Reading your post again and adding some details. Antibiotics didn’t help because you probably had viral pneumonia. Ds was on oxygen for a month after he was discharged. It was a looonnnnng recovery.  

Edited by sassenach
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6 hours ago, SKL said:

Well I'm glad they will allow carry-out.  I hope people use it!

i think lots will.  After all , many people don't know how to cook.  They will miss the food from their favorite places,  I think the places that will lose business are maybe the places whose client were not tech savy, elderly people. 

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I realized today I'm inadvertently one of the toilet paper hoarders.  We got down to only one roll left in our package in the bathroom, so I went hunting.  I knew there was a 12 pack in the pantry, but then I discovered there was also a 12 pack in each of the cars.  

Oops.  

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15 minutes ago, Bambam said:

I'm afraid this is true and will be our downfall. So many older adults here are in denial about this virus. They say - it's overblown or the media is just silly and it's no worse than the flu. And so on. The very people who are in the high risk category are scorning social distancing - they are headed out shopping, eating out, etc. I don't understand. 

Older people, in general, do not value safety as much as younger people. They value autonomy, agency, routine, and family. They would rather live as they choose than live longer. 
 

I think we should respect that their decisions and priorities are different than what we desire for them. This is THE issue in elder care in general. Safety vs autonomy. 

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@Pen@MEmama@mathnerd
https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/coronavirus/east-bay-hospitals-delay-elective-surgeries-during-covid-19-surge/2254990/
“Health officials from Kaiser Permanente and John Muir Health medical facilities in the East Bay said Sunday their four hospitals are ready for a surge of COVID-19 coronavirus patients, and in fact expect an "accelerated spread" of cases in the coming weeks.

To help ensure there are enough beds and enough staff to handle the anticipated surge, executives from both Kaiser and John Muir said during an hour-long telephone news conference Sunday that, starting Monday, there will be a moratorium of at least two weeks on elective surgeries at their four East Bay hospitals. They also implored people with only mild symptoms of what could be coronavirus not to inundate emergency rooms, but to instead call their primary-care doctors first.

"We prefer that people with mild-to-moderate symptoms to not go to the emergency room -- we don't have that capacity," said Dr. Russell Rodriguez, medical director of John Muir Health's emergency departments. John Muir Health operates hospitals in Walnut Creek and Concord.

Rodriguez and Marty Ardron, Kaiser's senior vice president and area manager of health giant's Diablo Service Area covering east and central Contra Costa County and the Tri-Valley area of Alameda County, both said their medical teams have been performing drills to be ready for a patient surge.

 "We're confident we can handle the load of treating these patients ... while keeping doctors and patients safe," Ardron said.

Both Ardron and Rodriguez, as well as health officials from Alameda and Contra Costa Counties, said there are enough COVID-19 tests available for patients who are showing serious symptoms - fever, cough, breathing problems - that are hallmarks of coronavirus. And they're glad to have them, as they all said they expect a surge of patients in the next several weeks - even if 85 percent of confirmed cases are considered "mild."

"We're still trying to really understand what the fatality rate is," said Dr. Erica Pan, Alameda County's health officer. "As testing expands, we'll know more.”

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14 minutes ago, TravelingChris said:

i think lots will.  After all , many people don't know how to cook.  They will miss the food from their favorite places,  I think the places that will lose business are maybe the places whose client were not tech savy, elderly people. 

My son said his Starbucks is down 33%. I was a little surprised. He works at a busy one. 

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49 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

they probably think if their parents could live through the Spanish flu, it's no big deal.  But, their parents were younger than they are now.

Also- someone up thread (or maybe in one of the other threads) said that the elderly aren’t afraid to die. But someone correct me if I’m wrong, but this doesn’t sound at all like a nice painless way to die. 

Edited by Jean in Newcastle
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Our Area food pantry has changed to meals on wheels type delivery with no direct contact between driver and recipient. Or to pick ups , but no go in and browse or food kitchen group meals.  Donations can be by drive up, drop off and leave without close contact at our closest Good Will, which can get items to Food Pantry or elsewhere. 

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2 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

Also- someone up thread (or maybe in one of the other threads) that the elderly aren’t afraid to die. But someone correct me if I’m wrong, but this doesn’t sound at all like a nice painless way to die. 

 

No, it sounds like an awful way to die.  And a horribly traumatic thing for the whole family.

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6 minutes ago, Plum said:

My son said his Starbucks is down 33%. I was a little surprised. He works at a busy one. 

People working from home and students studying from home probably meant less pedestrian traffic. The Starbucks inside my nearest Safeway has less customers now that school is closed and people are working from home.

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20 minutes ago, sassenach said:

Older people, in general, do not value safety as much as younger people. They value autonomy, agency, routine, and family. They would rather live as they choose than live longer. 
 

I think we should respect that their decisions and priorities are different than what we desire for them. This is THE issue in elder care in general. Safety vs autonomy. 

Vogue's take on it is that Baby Boomers are in denial over being old

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4 hours ago, Arcadia said:

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/15/coronavirus-amazon-says-items-out-of-stock-deliveries-delayed.html

“Amazon warned it’s experiencing Prime delivery days and running out of stock of popular household items amid the coronavirus outbreak.

The issues are a result of a “dramatic increase in the rate that people are shopping online,” Amazon said in a blog post that was updated on Saturday. Some popular brands and items in the “household staples” categories were out of stock, while Amazon said some of its “delivery promises are longer than usual.”

“In the short term this is having an impact on how we serve our customers,” Amazon said in the blog post. “We are working around the clock with our selling partners to ensure availability on all of our products, and bring on additional capacity to deliver all of your orders.”

Amazon added a notice to the top of its marketplace this weekend that reads: “Inventory and delivery may be temporarily unavailable due to increased demand. Confirm availability at checkout.”

Meanwhile, a quick scan for in-demand items like toilet paper and bottled water showed that many listings were out of stock. Amazon’s normally speedy one-day and two-day delivery options also showed delays of several days. After adding an item to the shopping basket, Amazon said the order would arrive within four days.”

 

Target has cancelled multiple orders on me several days after the orders were confirmed. At first, they pushed the delivery date back and then were apparently completely unable to fulfill the orders. This has happened on multiple orders from Target. I cannot even place an Amazon Prime Now order. All the delivery windows are full. Costco has been the only way that I've been able to get deliveries (via Instacart), but you have to order several days out. Today, they are taking deliveries for Thursday.

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4 hours ago, Arcadia said:

😞

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/world/coronavirus-covid-19-italy-death-toll-12540988

“ROME: Italy on Sunday (Mar 15) reported a one-day record death toll and leaders warned of a bed and artificial respirator shortage in the European epicentre of the coronavirus pandemic.

Official data showed the number of fatalities shooting up by 368 to 1,809 - more than half of all the cases recorded outside China.

... Milan's Lombardy region governor Attilio Fontana said the situation in areas around Italy's financial capital was "getting worse".

"We are close to the point where we will no longer be able to resuscitate people because we will be out of intensive care unit beds," Fontana told Italy's Sky TG24 channel.

"We need those machines (doctors) use to ventilate lungs, artificial respirators that unfortunately we cannot find," Fontana said.

"As soon as those respirators arrive from abroad, we will be ready to go on the attack."

The Lombardy region has recorded 1,218 of the deaths officially attributed to COVID-19 over the past three weeks - more than the rest of Europe combined.

The region of 10 million - slightly smaller but more economically productive than neighbouring Switzerland to the north - also has 13,272 reported infections and 767 people in intensive care.

Milan mayor Beppe Sala said he had managed to secure shipments of surgical masks from China to help cover a growing shortage.

"Milan has always had excellent relations with the main Chinese cities and I made a few phone calls over the past few days in search of masks," the Milan mayor said 

"The first shipment arrived (Friday) and we will now distribute them to doctors, to our staff."

European Commission also announced the imminent delivery of one million masks from Germany.

... Lombardy welfare councillor Giulio told reporters on Saturday that "there are no more ambulances" in areas around Milan.

The governor of Venice's Veneto region to the east also called on "everyone to remain in isolation" to avoid putting hospitals under further strain.

"If you do not follow the rules, the health system will crash and I will have to impose a curfew," Veneto governor Luca Zaia warned.”

 

This is awful.

 

Im trying to understand “no more ambulances” — like the sentence about laundries the other day it seems like it was just said with out elaborating.

it left me wondering what happened to the ambulances? Impossible to clean? Stuffed with dead bodies? Crashed? Driven so much they wore out? 

 

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2 hours ago, soror said:

I don't think so either but I don't want to have to fight crazy crowds or worry about hoarders clearing out shelves like they have on TP. People are mounding their carts with stuff  

I went in for milk eggs and bread today and came out with a huge cartful of groceries.  People may have thought I was panicking.  It was actually more that I realized that with school out, I’d have three teenagers home all day, and they eat a lot 😳. For some reason they eat way more when they’re home, than when they eat before school or pack for lunch.

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So far as long as not for the high volume Covid items, my Amazon orders have been coming pretty well (we only get 2 day expedited Prime shipping at best, and I’ve been choosing to group for my Prime Day if I don’t need it sooner.  ) some delays and errors, but not out of ordinary range. Today though I wanted to get a box of our favorite gluten free crackers and got a message that there’s a quantity limit, and I already had reached it earlier in the month, I guess. 

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51 minutes ago, Bambam said:

I'm afraid this is true and will be our downfall. So many older adults here are in denial about this virus. They say - it's overblown or the media is just silly and it's no worse than the flu. And so on. The very people who are in the high risk category are scorning social distancing - they are headed out shopping, eating out, etc. I don't understand. 

 

33 minutes ago, sassenach said:

Older people, in general, do not value safety as much as younger people. They value autonomy, agency, routine, and family. They would rather live as they choose than live longer. 
 

I think we should respect that their decisions and priorities are different than what we desire for them. This is THE issue in elder care in general. Safety vs autonomy. 

I agree with this so much. As someone who is 47 I don’t feel it or deep-down understand it, but I see it play out over and over.  They would rather engage in what I would call risky behavior than have their ability to do what they want taken away. 

I do respect that they feel that way, even if I am not in that boat yet. I am old enough to understand that some feelings are specific to certain age groups or life situations and people not in that age group or life situation might not get it.

At the same time, I’m glad that leaders are starting to force the issue and make people stay home who might normally not stay home, for the safety of all. 

19 minutes ago, Plum said:

My son said his Starbucks is down 33%. I was a little surprised. He works at a busy one. 

 

My sons both work at our local McDonalds and said it was as dead in there today as on Christmas Eve (a very dead night.). 

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6 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/health/evergreenhealth-doctor-tests-positive-for-coronavirus-in-critical-condition/?amp=1&__twitter_impression=true
 

Emergency room doctor in Seattle in critical condition.

Mostly staying away from the news today and rearranging my pantry so I’m not buying stuff we already have

 

And  the article says also another emergency room doctor  in Patterson, NJ.

Edited by Pen
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32 minutes ago, Pen said:

Our Area food pantry has changed to meals on wheels type delivery with no direct contact between driver and recipient. Or to pick ups , but no go in and browse or food kitchen group meals.  Donations can be by drive up, drop off and leave without close contact at our closest Good Will, which can get items to Food Pantry or elsewhere. 

We're doing the same thing here.  I'm glad, too, because most of our volunteers are retired folks.

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27 minutes ago, EmilyGF said:

Vogue's take on it is that Baby Boomers are in denial over being old

I think that’s a little dismissive though. If we call it denial, we are saying that their thinking is wrong. I don’t think that’s true. I think their priorities are different. This has been studied at length. Being Mortal is an excellent book that tackles the subject. 

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1 hour ago, Lang Syne Boardie said:

GF alternatives for complex carbohydrates -- I'm sure you know, as a diagnosed celiac, but I thought I'd take the moment to post in case anyone needs this:

Potatoes, all varieties
Most but not all corn tortillas - we heat in a pan and use for bread, in a pinch
Some but not all cornmeal
Buckwheat flour (dedicated mill only) - might be able to order online
Winter squash and pumpkins
Quinoa
Millet 
Tapioca starch can be made into tortillas, see The Gluten Free on a Shoestring blog

Remember also, foods like custard pies can be made as puddings without crust. Peanut butter cookies can be made with just egg, sugar, and peanut butter. Check into celiac or gluten free forums and FB groups for no-specific-ingredient recipes and ideas.

Also, you can use cabbage as a base for stir fry instead of rice if rice runs low.

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3 minutes ago, square_25 said:

Hmmmmm. I guess that's possible. But given that people of all ages are pretty short-sighted, I'm not sure people would actually make this trade-off in cold blood. "Yes, if I keep behaving like I do, I will likely either die or be incapacitated, but I'm fine with that!!" 

Maybe it's both. My mom, who is 61, is definitely still prioritizing health and longevity. The 80+ year olds that I know do. not. care. They want to live their lives and that is that.

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2 minutes ago, sassenach said:

Maybe it's both. My mom, who is 61, is definitely still prioritizing health and longevity. The 80+ year olds that I know do. not. care. They want to live their lives and that is that.

This is my dad.  My sis (who lives next door to him) is so frustrated trying to convince him to stay home.  

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10 minutes ago, sassenach said:

I think that’s a little dismissive though. If we call it denial, we are saying that their thinking is wrong. I don’t think that’s true. I think their priorities are different. This has been studied at length. Being Mortal is an excellent book that tackles the subject. 

They're like this with everything though. I've tried to get my in laws in a home because they can barely get upstairs or out of the tub but the response is "We have 20 years before we have to think about things like that." Um, honey, you'll be dead in 10. My dad sees no reason to retire despite the fact that he's in too much pain to work half the time and mom won't date under 40 because she's young at heart. They're all old! They need therapy.

2 minutes ago, sassenach said:

That's the thing! Thanks!

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11 minutes ago, square_25 said:

Hmmmmm. I guess that's possible. But given that people of all ages are pretty short-sighted, I'm not sure people would actually make this trade-off in cold blood. "Yes, if I keep behaving like I do, I will likely either die or be incapacitated, but I'm fine with that!!" 

I remember both of my grandmothers stating that they were ready to die shortly before the event that ended their lives.

I do understand being ready to stop fighting the inevitable at some point.  It's not like if we miss this one we will live forever.

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1 hour ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

Also- someone up thread (or maybe in one of the other threads) said that the elderly aren’t afraid to die. But someone correct me if I’m wrong, but this doesn’t sound at all like a nice painless way to die. 

no, it's not.  comments from drs who've treated these patients is they drown in their own sputum.  (slowly).   and visitors aren't allowed anywhere near them, so they die alone.

and just because one 80 year old doesn't care if they get it - if they keep going out and about and become infected, they could give it to someone who does care.

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My sister told me she thought I was crazy initially when I told her to buy diapers for her newborn a few weeks ago, but did so, and expressed thanks to me today. She had gone shopping and there were none to be found.

I don’t know whether to bang my head on the wall or feel relieved. 
 

Now if I could just get my parents to stay home, or buy more than a day’s worth of groceries.

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REI https://www.rei.com/blog/news/eric-artz-rei-retail-stores-closing-until-march-27

“After a great deal of careful consideration, we are temporarily closing our 162 retail stores nationwide starting tomorrow, March 16, until March 27. I believe that is the right thing for our community. In fact, I believe it is our duty—to do all we can to help keep one another safe in this unprecedented moment.

That also means all employees from these stores will be paid during this temporary closure. And, even with our stores closed, we will be working hard to do everything we can to continue to serve our customers. All orders through REI.com will get free shipping while our stores are closed.”

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