wuhan - coronavirus

[Ausmumof3]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-northern-ireland-51850811?__twitter_impression=true
All schools, colleges and childcare centres in Ireland to be closed till 29th of March 

[DawnM]

I can't seem to search and see if I already posted this:

All UNC colleges are going to online instruction until further notice.  My son's school will start Monday.  He will need to go in for 2 hours for a lab on Wed, but otherwise, all online.

[gstharr]

1 hour ago, DawnM said:

Anyone's family member stuck?

So many people are posting that their college kid is in Europe for Spring Break and can't get back or they live in Europe and their child is in the US, or husband for business, or, or, or.  Some of my friends were in Europe for a week on their way back from Africa.  Now they either stay in Europe or go back to Africa (missionaries), either way, they miss their daughter's wedding.

GAH!

Wow! So much has changed for my 9th grader over the last two weeks.  First a spring break trip with his school to S.Africa was cancelled.  Just found out that his school is closing the campus starting Monday.  All sports activities halted.  Especially disappointing because he made varsity-#2 seed.  I was going to send him to his cousin's wedding out of state, and now will probably not.  Then, I am planning that another overseas trip he was going to take with a different group in June will probably be cancelled as well.   Now, rushing to enroll him at CTD as a summer back-up. 

[Ausmumof3]

We’re all adults here so I’m not going to tell anyone what not to talk about but I really really hope this thread can stay open.  Might be worth another thread on the media people if we want one?  

[Ausmumof3]

Edited to add to the Ireland post also bans on mass gatherings.  Limit of 100 for indoors and 500 for outdoors.  That is quite restrictive.  

[Tenaj]

I'm amazed at the disconnect I'm seeing in my area.  Yesterday governor announced that the state high school basketball tournaments would go on without spectators.  This morning, local school who has a women's team in semi-finals announces a "watch party" in the school gym with a big inflatable screen.  Quote was that they are hoping to "pack the gym".  

[YaelAldrich]

5 hours ago, gardenmom5 said:

sometimes it's lack of resources.

we have a fault off the coast that can produce earthquakes and tsunamis equivalent to the one in Fukushima Japan.  The towns on the coast, are trying to come up with how to save the students if/when there is a tsunami (the geological record is there about previous very devastating tsunamis).  One town in Oregon wanted to build a school, built to withstand the quake and the tsunami - and be  high enough off the ground it should protect them from the water.  yeah - it would be expensive.  and it was voted down because it was simply more than the community/those in charge could afford.

It's sad but disaster planning people always feel like they're Don Quixote or the chicken who ran around saying the sky was falling. The powers that be don't want to spend the time, money (especially), and effort to prepare for bad stuff. It's totally human nature to rally together during bad stuff and forget about it 6 months later. Like childbirth! Lol Some governments and non profit agencies get it and that's why my husband continues to have a job but overall as he says, " We're our own first responders and our neighbors are the zero responders. They'll be the ones saving the elderly, the housebound, the ones who can't help themselves."

[Ausmumof3]

1 minute ago, YaelAldrich said:

It's sad but disaster planning people always feel like they're Don Quixote or the chicken who ran around saying the sky was falling. The powers that be don't want to spend the time, money (especially), and effort to prepare for bad stuff. It's totally human nature to rally together during bad stuff and forget about it 6 months later. Like childbirth! Lol Some governments and non profit agencies get it and that's why my husband continues to have a job but overall as he says, " We're our own first responders and our neighbors are the zero responders. They'll be the ones saving the elderly, the housebound, the ones who can't help themselves."

Even on a personal level it’s hard to maintain preparedness long term.  We try to be more prepared bushfire season but it requires a lot of ongoing work.  Emergency food expires.  Grass grows back.  I guess it’s similar on a large scale.  Masks go out of date.  What seemed like a reliable company or supplier has become less reliable. 

[Aura]

Oldest ds works at an Amazon warehouse. This morning (well, the date was yesterday March 11), he was sent:

Quote

Effective immediately, all global employees who have been quarantined or diagnosed with COVID-19 will receive up to two weeks of pay. We're also establishing an Amazon Relief Fund with a $25 million initial contribution to support employees and contractors around the world who face financial hardships from qualifying events.

There's more, but that was the gist.

I'm glad they're doing at least this, but I am concerned--once again!--about the level of testing. This is another reason why need widespread testing! If you can't get a test, then how do you qualify for aid like this?

[Ausmumof3]

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30566-3/fulltext#back-bib33
 

Study looking at the course of the epidemic in WuhAn if anyone’s interested 

[Arcadia]

https://abc7news.com/6006162/

“NEW YORK -- An airline passenger flying from New York City to Florida tested positive for COVID-19 moments after landing.

Fire rescue crews were called to Palm Beach International Airport for a medical incident shortly after the JetBlue flight arrived around 8:30 p.m. Wednesday night from John F. Kennedy Airport.

Officials said the aircrew and 114 passengers were stuck on the plane for a few hours before they were released to go home without seeing a doctor.

Patients who sat near the novel coronavirus patient were told to monitor their health, and others were given instructions to call the health department with any medical concerns.

Airport crews at PBIA had sterilized the containment area where passengers deplaned, which is separate from the main airport terminal.”

[Ausmumof3]

so I had a quick read through the study... not detailed because it’s beyond my expertise level.  
 

it was based on patients hospitalised in January.  So presumably skewed toward the more severe cases because at that stage they weren’t checking everyone.  They excluded all unresolved cases out of over 600.  That left 191.  So I guess the info is really only dealing with cases that resolved quickly - either fully cured or dead.  Of that number about 1/4 died.  Presumably many more of the long running cases eventually recovered.

In Those who recovered shedding ended at around 20 days, in the ones that died continued till the end - in one case 37 days (incidentally must have been a December case because the study ended 31/1

Almost everyone had a fever, most people had a cough.  The muscle aches etc were fairly rare.

[RootAnn]

1 hour ago, JanOH said:

I'm amazed at the disconnect I'm seeing in my area.  Yesterday governor announced that the state high school basketball tournaments would go on without spectators.  This morning, local school who has a women's team in semi-finals announces a "watch party" in the school gym with a big inflatable screen.  Quote was that they are hoping to "pack the gym".  

Yep. They don't get it. The locals are consuming / believing the story that this is overblown. They are SO UPSET they aren't allowed to go watch in person because this is "only the flu."

Local theater is showing the state bball tournament games for the three local teams for free starting this afternoon. I assume it'll be packed.

[Pen]

1 hour ago, square_25 said:

I guess it might, I don’t know the science well enough. But I think you’d have to restrict US citizen travel, too, to have a chance of helping.

 

I am using your reply to me as a chance to reply not just to you but to give a more general reply. I am not upset with you at all should it come out so. And I am in no way accusing you of not being caring.  

The issues that need to be understood have much more to do with mathematics than with science. 

Have you been around and reading to see posts or links to outside materials that explain how slooooowing down rate of infection and number of cases makes a huge difference?

Each case that comes to an area— whether that’s from Italy to Florida or from Glorida to zMississippi, or from New Rochelle to New York City, will start its own series of transmissions. 

Each series that begins, the first person is likely to infect a number of other people before it’s realized that first person is sick (sCV19 can transmit from a well seeming person to others — that asymptomatic transmission occurs is very important to understand as a science matter) .

The fewer such lines of case spread there are the better.  

Thus, IMO all travelers should be quarantining for at least 14 days to not move proliferation of new series of cases into new areas, and even not to move potential onew mutation strains into new areas (which might change things to younger or more healthy people having more serious cases, for example)

(I was excited when I thought I saw that this was a CDC rule, but now it looks like it is not applicable except to high risk persons. )

Anyway, the more trails you start with (this is not  the exact way it happens as 1 person might infect 3 each of whom might infect 1 to 7 others or be a “superspreader” who infects 50 others, but using a consistent 1 infects 2, 2 go on to infect 4 is a way we can easily understand the basics on paper without being computer simulations capable) 

The more trails of 1 person infects 2, each of those 2 infect 2 more and so on, the faster the medical system will be overwhelmed.  The fewer trails, and the more you curtail moving around to new spots and being in contact with  groups the smaller will be the R0 (Said “R naught”— it is the number that says how many new people  one case on average will infect. And it isn’t fixed by qualities of the virus. It’s flexible by a combination of the virus qualities and the behavior of the people who are dealing with the virus.  You can think of it a little like fire, and people moving around are like dropping hot embers,  taking a wild fire from one spot and dropping it on another.  Social distance in its many forms is like a river of water helping to stop the fire’s progress.) 

The fewer lines of doubling cases there are the less quickly the medical system will be overwhelmed.  Which right now is very critical.

So while a lot is still happening that IMO should not be (I suspect TPTB are afraid of riots as some people on here pointed out earlier), any cutting down that can be done,  whether by government mandate, corporate decision, schoolboard decision, or personal decision, the better.  It may be crazy that USA is still having St Patrick’s parades when Ireland has shut that down, but just because something hasn’t been forbidden (maybe for fear of riots) it doesn’t mean that smart people like the ones who are on WTM and capable of learning and teaching their kids have to go to it. 

Take a piece of paper and start putting down doubling sequences (1-2-4-8-16-32-64...) which start small, but quickly become enormous and look at the difference that happens if there’s just one string of doubling (one outbreak) versus 10 or 100 or more.   Look at how much more quickly the millions and even billions will be reached if you start with 1 case line versus 100.

Some small outbreaks in USA are probably still quite stoppable by using contract tracing and quarantining.  

Some may take much bigger measures to try to shut down local transmission areas (for example New Rochelle attempt to stop it from spreading into and overwhelming nearby big densely populated cities. 

Other areas such as on the west coast the battle for chance of completely stopping it is probably pretty much over, but containment and mitigation still are extremely possible.  Slooooowing it to give medical system a chance is still very possible. 

And this is really critical for people to understand.

Really, Really important for people not to just figure it’s too little too late and give up trying. Even If government hasn’t mandated not traveling, do what one can oneself. Even if government hasn’t  mandated quarantine after traveling, do what one can oneself.

even locally, Cut down on events, cut down on places visited, put more distance (even though there’s a proven case of a transmission from one end of a bus to another, it will still be that more transmission is going to be from closer distances).  Do wash hands.  Do do a mini personal quarantine when arriving home — removing outer clothing, Etc etc.   Do wear clean items when going out so that if someone at home has an as yet asymptomatic case, one is not a walking fomite ....

Even people who don’t care about the 15-20% who will have cases needing hospital, maybe a few of the No Big Deal 80% people could come to care about what could be a generation of medical workers and first responders being decimated.  Even people who see the elderly or people with health problems as dead wood who should be pruned (and I think that there is probably quite a bit of that I acknowledged) maybe they would not want there to be no available doctor when they need one, no available fireman when they need one. No paramedic when their teenager has a car crash or a swimming pool accident. 

Edited March 12, 2020 by Pen

[sassenach]

1 hour ago, JanOH said:

I'm amazed at the disconnect I'm seeing in my area.  Yesterday governor announced that the state high school basketball tournaments would go on without spectators.  This morning, local school who has a women's team in semi-finals announces a "watch party" in the school gym with a big inflatable screen.  Quote was that they are hoping to "pack the gym".  

Our county held a huge Covid public forum. I was unimpressed. 

[Farrar]

For the numbers lovers.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

[Guest]

Shelby county schools (Memphis)  is closing completely for the rest of this month. I suspect they are hoping they can reopen. As a large, urban district where many kids depend on the school to be their regular source of food, and the number of people with internet access except for maybe through a cell phone is low, going online really isn’t an option. 
 

I’m in shock because we are close to standardized testing, and as a former teacher in that district, that’s a “the show must go on” situations, where even if there are lines of storms likely to produce tornados and severe hail, you’re expected to get the kids to school, and if they have to shelter in place, take the test practice with you! 

[importswim]

One of DH's friends, who lives in Italy, shared this on his FB (and asked people to share, and I thought it was worth it):

Living in Italy, times are tough right now. We are on lockdown. If I leave the house I have to have a form filled out with a specific reason for which I am out. I cannot visit my parents. I stood in line outside a pharmacy to be admitted one at a time, I was just buying allergy medicine for my wife and daughter, but was treated as though I had an infectious disease. I watched my daughter talk - or more like yell - to her best friend across a bike path (about 2 meters wide) because nobody knows who might be carrying this coronavirus.

We have over 12,000 cases and over 800 dead. This is not a partisan agenda. People are dying. Hospitals are saturated. Nobody benefits by Italy shutting down. We are going to suffer economically for years because of this lockdown. But the Italian people - for the most part - are respecting the temporary rules. This is a huge sacrifice we are all making to extinguish this Covid-19 outbreak. Italy is fighting to prevent more deaths and to regain control of its hospitals. We are fighting to prevent the continued spread of this coronavirus, even to other countries.

Why shock and shame? While we are sacrificing so much, friends in the US are calling this a scare tactic. They are calling it fake news. They are calling the pandemic a money making scheme (although, I am unclear who is profiting). They are ignoring the data that has been collected are call Covid-19 a "flu-like" sickness you just get over. I have been mocked in first person for my "fear" when trying to warn of the dangers of this sickness.

There is no spin to these deaths. There is no agenda to keep thousands in the ICU. There is no benefit to shutting down Italy. Please set aside your political beliefs and listen to the data from Italy. 3 weeks ago we had 3 cases in all of Italy. Today, we would be happy if we had less than 1,000 new in a day.

I - and many others - am trying to raise awareness of the reality. Our sacrifices are pointless if other countries ignore the warnings. If we beat Covid-19 in Italy, at this point, my biggest fear is that it will come back because other countries are being flippant about it.

Edited March 12, 2020 by importswim

[prairiewindmomma]

https://www.oregonlive.com/coronavirus/2020/03/no-gatherings-of-250-or-more-people-in-oregon-for-4-weeks-gov-kate-brown-says.html

"All gatherings of more than 250 people in Oregon will be canceled for the next four weeks in an effort to slow the spread of coronavirus, Gov. Kate Brown announced Wednesday night.

That means many sports and entertainment events, 10K runs, conferences, lectures and other planned events won’t happen.

Brown said public schools should remain open. But she said all non-essential school-associated gatherings and group activities — such as parent group meetings, field trips and competitions -- should be cancelled.

The guidance for schools came hours after Oregon’s largest public universities announced a series of policies to keep students safe. University of Oregon, Oregon State University and Portland State University all aim to limit student interaction, including canceling in-person final exams and providing online classes.

Brown also issued guidance for employers, saying that all measures should be taken to “increase physical space” between employees and to limit meetings and stagger work schedules...."

[Matryoshka]

I don't think I've seen this article linked here before.  It's got a scary headline, but it's very rational and very good at explaining the numbers (lots of charts!), exponential growth, how/why China and some other countries have managed to contain it, and how things will be very different (read: much, much, much worse) if we don't start doing those things today.   This whole thing "well, it was over in China in X amount of time, so that's how long we can expect this to last" holds no water if we just keep fa-la-la-ing around...

https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-act-today-or-people-will-die-f4d3d9cd99ca

2 hours ago, Carrie12345 said:

My teenagers seem to be nervous now.  Before, they weren’t blind to it, but they were definitely frustrated with me, lol.  Now their various activities are on the line with higher authorities than me, and it’s making a difference in their POV.

The psychology of emergencies is starting to sink in for me now.  As someone who is pretty prepared year round and started to double check necessities WELL over a month ago (and found a stash of toilet paper in the house, lol) I felt pretty good about my own personal situation. Despite that, I’m noticing myself questioning the boundaries of “enough”, and wondering “what if”.  My concern is that, if *I’m* feeling that way, people who couldn’t or wouldn’t prepare before are quite likely to actually panic. I’ve been avoiding using that word because it’s appeared to be just outliers around me, but I have the sense that that’s going to change, and that *is scary.

My teenagers are feeling the same.  I have been trying to gently prepare them, but things have become more “real” in the last couple of days.  Michigan had its first two confirmed cases two days ago.  Yesterday the universities announced going online and my 14yo came home with the news that Michigan swimming cancelled the 13&U state meet and possibly zones.  I assume the university closure will also cancel our homeschool field biology class.

As far as contingency planning, everyone seems to put online learning as the backup for school closures.  Has anyone tested out these systems like zoom and adobe connect to see if they can handle such a massive increase in users in such a short period of time???

[Kassia]

2 hours ago, JanOH said:

I'm amazed at the disconnect I'm seeing in my area.  Yesterday governor announced that the state high school basketball tournaments would go on without spectators.  This morning, local school who has a women's team in semi-finals announces a "watch party" in the school gym with a big inflatable screen.  Quote was that they are hoping to "pack the gym".  

 

I'm also in Ohio and am amazed at the disconnect.  Everything here is being canceled or postponed, but our library system keeps posting on social media about all of their great programs - including a tasting party!  So much for not touching your face in public!  

[Pen]

@square_25 I did significant editing of my reply to you ... if you read it before I edited maybe look at the changed version 

[Pen]

22 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

I don't think I've seen this article linked here before.  It's got a scary headline, but it's very rational and very good at explaining the numbers (lots of charts!), exponential growth, how/why China and some other countries have managed to contain it, and how things will be very different (read: much, much, much worse) if we don't start doing those things today.   This whole thing "well, it was over in China in X amount of time, so that's how long we can expect this to last" holds no water if we just keep fa-la-la-ing around...

https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-act-today-or-people-will-die-f4d3d9cd99ca

 

No, I don’t think that’s been posted before. Would you be willing to put it on the No Big Deal thread too? Or if not maybe I will.

[Pen]

11 minutes ago, square_25 said:

Goodness, that’s a little patronizing. I’m a mathematician, I don’t need lessons on doubling.

What I’m saying is that I have no idea what fraction of cases are currently a result of international travel. It used to be a lot. Right now, the virus is all over the US already, so I’m not sure why a focus on international travel is key. Ground travel and flights within the US may be bigger issues.

Now, I could be wrong and this could be a reasonable measure. But it really depends on the data.

Also, since we don’t have enough tests, we  can’t quarantine effectively, anyway. So a focus on international travel (but not for US citizens!) starts to look a bit like political theater. “We have to do something!!”

 

Please see my editing which was being done as you were replying and crossed with your post.

[Matryoshka]

2 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

No, I don’t think that’s been posted before. Would you be willing to put it on the No Big Deal thread too? Or if not maybe I will.

Just did. We'll see how that goes over...

[Garga]

2 hours ago, Carrie12345 said:

My teenagers seem to be nervous now.  Before, they weren’t blind to it, but they were definitely frustrated with me, lol.  Now their various activities are on the line with higher authorities than me, and it’s making a difference in their POV.

 

 

21 minutes ago, Mom2mthj said:

My teenagers are feeling the same.  

Mine have been ignoring me or gently mocking me.  I kept saying, “This will be history, you’re living through history right now,” and they have rolled their eyes.

But as of Monday, when Italy closed down, they started taking me seriously and actually listened when I told them details of what’s going on.  They aren’t scared, but they aren’t mocking, and they’re curious.

[Matryoshka]

13 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

You’re not particularly understanding where a lot of us were coming from if you think that particular article would upset anyone there.  I’m in the shrug camp on this in terms of alarm, but I’ve also been home sick for two days and kept even my healthy child out of school just in case he picked anything up from me.  
 

Not losing one’s mind or being particularly worked up about something doesn’t equal ignorance or laughing it off.  *That* is the disconnect between the two sides of this I am talking about.  

I'm not losing my mind nor panicking.  Haven't even stockpiled toilet paper.  But the attitude of "I already lysol wipe my house and keep my kids away from germs on a regular basis, so a complete overwhelm of our medical system so people can't be treated for even non-outbreak related things, disruptions in the worldwide supply chain, and an eventual if tardy complete shut-down of society as we know it for perhaps months don't 'particularly worry me' " does create a disconnect for me, I must admit...

Edited March 12, 2020 by Matryoshka

[Pen]

2 hours ago, Carrie12345 said:

My teenagers seem to be nervous now.  Before, they weren’t blind to it, but they were definitely frustrated with me, lol.  Now their various activities are on the line with higher authorities than me, and it’s making a difference in their POV.

 

I started to see the first hint  of this with my teen when he learned that the girl he’s interested in is concerned. But unfortunately teachers at his school are still promoting the no big deal it is less bad than flu line. 😡

I do think it takes things like bigger “authorities “ or media stars to be impacted in order to impress not only teens but many many adults as well.

 I think it’s one reason that this thread is probably more useful just for those of us who are concerned to let each other know updates and think up possible useful things, but not to try to explain anything to people who are of a mind to “not get it” because it’s rather like a parent with a teen. Just not effective, by and large. 

 

2 hours ago, Carrie12345 said:

The psychology of emergencies is starting to sink in for me now.  As someone who is pretty prepared year round and started to double check necessities WELL over a month ago (and found a stash of toilet paper in the house, lol) I felt pretty good about my own personal situation. Despite that, I’m noticing myself questioning the boundaries of “enough”, and wondering “what if”.  My concern is that, if *I’m* feeling that way, people who couldn’t or wouldn’t prepare before are quite likely to actually panic. I’ve been avoiding using that word because it’s appeared to be just outliers around me, but I have the sense that that’s going to change, and that *is scary.

 

Yes.  That is very scary. 

 

[BeachGal]

Covid is appearing now in the rural areas of China according to one of my husband's employees who moved here recently from China whose family is from the rural areas. Most of the people from his area now have it, including his family. He has heard from friends that this is happening in other parts as well. China is not testing or counting them.

[Pen]

1 minute ago, Matryoshka said:

I'm not losing my mind nor panicking.  Haven't even stockpiled toilet paper.  But I honestly don't understand the "I already lysol wipe my house and keep my kids away from germs on a regular basis, so a complete overwhelm of our medical system so people can't be treated for even non-outbreak related things, disruptions in the worldwide supply chain, and an eventual if tardy complete shut-down of society as we know it for perhaps months don't 'particularly worry me' " does create a disconnect for me, I must admit...

 

I think maybe It is a different “mindset”?

 I think it might be a perspective that sort of has an already overwhelmed feeling aspect to it and just can’t deal with one more thing. There have been studies of people who live under active volcanoes and they have to close their minds to worry about the volcano, worry about when it might erupt, what might happen,  otherwise they could not function in a daily way. I think that may be a part of some people’s “mindsets” that are like that.  Not necessarily @Arctic Mama Who I don’t know well enough to guess about, but some irl people I know.

For Some there’s also a religious lily in the fields idea. 

[Matryoshka]

7 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

Well if that is what I was actually meaning then I could see the disconnect.  But that’s not actually my point.

That's sure how it sounds.  What is the point then?  Should we not be concerned about a possible complete disruption of the world economy and hospitals so overwhelmed that people are left to die at home (as is already happening in Italy, where they have had a more aggressive response than we have here)?  Because when I say "I am concerned about the Coronavirus", that's sure the heck what I mean.  I am healthy and not super-old yet.  I will probably be personally fine.  But heck, yeah, I'm concerned, especially when the people in charge tell me they aren't, and there will be a 'miracle' and it will 'just go away'.

[gardenmom5]

2 hours ago, YaelAldrich said:

It's sad but disaster planning people always feel like they're Don Quixote or the chicken who ran around saying the sky was falling. The powers that be don't want to spend the time, money (especially), and effort to prepare for bad stuff. It's totally human nature to rally together during bad stuff and forget about it 6 months later. Like childbirth! Lol Some governments and non profit agencies get it and that's why my husband continues to have a job but overall as he says, " We're our own first responders and our neighbors are the zero responders. They'll be the ones saving the elderly, the housebound, the ones who can't help themselves."

it went before the voters - the voters voted it down.  the principal chose to retire.

[Arcadia]

6 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

.  And if I can't DO anything about it, any concern/worry I have is unproductive, unhelpful, unhealthy and only causes me more stress.

We bought a bit more of essentials in case the local stores couldn’t replenish in time and our elderly neighbors living alone need some. My nearest elderly neighbor has my cellphone number so she can message me if she needs us to help her pick up a gallon of milk or a small <= 5lb pack of rice when I walk to the supermarket. 

[Arcadia]

https://abc7news.com/health/princess-cruises-suspends-global-ship-operations-for-60-days/6006420/

“Princess, Viking cruises suspend global ship operations amid coronavirus spread

SANTA CLARITA, Calif. -- Princess Cruises is suspending global ship operations following two coronavirus-related quarantines where hundreds of passengers were sickened and some died.

The cruise line, owned by Carnival, announced Thursday that it will voluntarily pause global operations of its 18 cruise ships for two months. It anticipates resuming operations on May 10.

Those currently onboard Princess Cruises that end in five days will continue to sail as expected, but cruises that extend beyond Tuesday "will be ended at the most convenient location for guests."

Viking Cruises announced Wednesday it was also suspending operations of its river and ocean cruises for embarkations taking place between Thursday to April 30. The cruise line expected to resume operations May 1.”

[73349]

Copied from FB, for people who want/need to attend religious services online the coming weekends (most are in US Eastern Time Zone, so adjust as needed):

Quote

African Methodist Episcopal (AME): Greater Bethel Church, Charlotte, Sunday at 10 AM at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYd_OMQQxHY

Baptist (Alliance of Baptists): Pullen Memorial, Raleigh, Sunday morning at 11 at https://vimeo.com/pullen

Catholic: Diocese of Phoenix, Sunday mornings at 9 (Phoenix time): https://www.youtube.com/user/PhoenixDiocese

Episcopal: St. Cyprian's in Boston, Sunday morning at 10:30 at https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLvXBvyQAm0PYUnDBtMLv4w

Greek Orthodox: Holy Trinity in Pittsburgh, Sunday mornings at 9:30 (video or just audio if you prefer): https://www.holytrinitypgh.org/live

Lutheran (ELCA): Grace Lutheran Church in Eau Claire, WI, Sundays at 10 AM: https://www.youtube.com/cha…/UCk3CdLQ1sDO6esaa3zUMKCQ/videos

Methodist (UMC): Belmont-Watertown (Massachusetts), Sundays at 10:30 AM: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCakGim87KXDCR-On3pt5Y2w/featured

Non-Denominational Christian: Life.Church has multiple services at https://www.life.church/online/

Presbyterian: First Presbyterian Church, Buffalo, NY, Sundays at 11 AM: https://www.firstchurchbuffalo.org/worship-by-video

Reform Jewish: Beth Shalom v'Emeth, Brooklyn, Saturday at 11 AM: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIAeeMU1E9oKp9LZ_LaszpA

Unitarian Universalist: UU Fellowship of Charlotte, Sunday at 11:15 AM: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCnvG_NfdvfSfj12-hNje-cw

United Church of Christ (UCC): First Parish Saco, Maine, Sundays at 10 AM: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvbpNmYByb2fHBqrDPO-J2w/featured

 

[gardenmom5]

8 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

https://www.9news.com.au/national/coronavirus-pandemic-viking-cruises-cancels-all-cruises-due-to-covid19-outbreak/115c92ba-d1c8-4633-9c4b-5daef2b9cf7b
 

viking river cruises are suspending all cruises for now.  People with paid up cruises will be receiving vouchers for 125pc of the original value for the future 

after two ships with coronavirus patients and quarantines - princess cruises is suspending operations for two months.

[TravelingChris]

4 hours ago, Pawz4me said:

Apparently someone who was waiting on test results flew on a JetBlue plane from NY to Palm Beach.

Someone needs to step up and start saying that people who do things like this will be charged with endangering public health (or whatever the applicable crime(s) are).

 

 

I totally agree.  And at a minimum they should be named and shamed.  That would stop this kind of behavior.

[itsheresomewhere]

So some of those this is a hype people local to me have started nasty posts on Facebook about how people are hoarding/overbuying/buying their normal amount of stuff.  So now those complaining are all have immune issues and can’t buy toilet paper, Lysol( has to be the brand), paper towels and alcohol wipes.  When brought up how these have been out for over a week or two, they went off on how no one should have extra in their houses.  Kind of comical on how the pendulum has swung the other way for them now. Same people who were just protesting the closures of senior centers and schools yesterday.

Edited March 12, 2020 by itsheresomewhere

[DawnM]

I am scheduled to go to Arizona next week.  The memorial service for my mom will be held IN the retirement center, as well as the noon meal afterwards.  I called yesterday to make sure we were still good to go and was assured that we still have the green light.  

I am hoping everything isn't cancelled after we get there and we will have to figure out how to handle it.  

My two best friends were flying in to support me, but one cancelled yesterday as she has an auto-compromised lung disease and her pulmonologist strongly advised her not to go.  The other BFF is from Kirkland, WA.  I told her they are going to look at her DL and sirens will go off while they yell, "Ground Zero alert!" and point to her.  😂

[SKL]

5 minutes ago, itsheresomewhere said:

So some of those this is a hype people local to me have started nasty posts on Facebook about how people are hoarding/overbuying/buying their normal amount of stuff.  So now those complaining are all have immune issues and can’t buy toilet paper, Lysol( has to be the brand), paper towels and alcohol wipes.  When brought up how these have been out for over a week or two, they went off on how no one should have extra in their houses.  Kind of comical on how the pendulum has swung the other way for them now.

Well this is why they didn't want people to freak out and act like everything was going to come to a screeching halt.  So there would still be TP for everyone.

I haven't been shopping, but I hear from a number of people that there is NO toilet paper in the stores.  This is ridiculous.

On a lighter note - am I the only person who buys toilet paper online via Subscribe & Save?

[TravelingChris]

1 hour ago, dmmetler said:

Shelby county schools (Memphis)  is closing completely for the rest of this month. I suspect they are hoping they can reopen. As a large, urban district where many kids depend on the school to be their regular source of food, and the number of people with internet access except for maybe through a cell phone is low, going online really isn’t an option. 
 

I’m in shock because we are close to standardized testing, and as a former teacher in that district, that’s a “the show must go on” situations, where even if there are lines of storms likely to produce tornados and severe hail, you’re expected to get the kids to school, and if they have to shelter in place, take the test practice with you! 

We have a local school district that has rural areas that have no internet access.  That county school superintendent was saying that his school district is preparing by having all teachers make 2 weeks worth of school work that can be reproduced on paper to hand out to everyone.  The big problem, though, is that they also need a way to have kids call in for help too.

[SKL]

3 minutes ago, Seasider too said:

 

What we CAN all do is behave in ways that slow the need for more hospital beds. It’s not about what we DO, but more about what we DO NOT do - participate in travel or gatherings that speed the spread. We can all act responsibly and watch out for the people who directly within our personal spheres of influence.

When I think about levels of stress it is easy to say, yeah, that’s stressful (and truly it is), but I remind myself that my father was a child of the Great Depression. He engaged in hand to hand combat in WW2. Generations before us endured events that were so much harder than this will be! Who are we to think that catastrophe shouldn’t happen to us. I am afraid we have become a generation with quite low levels of resiliency. There has and will be tragedy in this pandemic. I pray we will emerge stronger and more compassionate  from the experience. 

Ok I may be dodging tomatoes after I hit post but that’s my pair o’pennies. 

I agree in part.  I also think there are some people who almost want to experience or (more likely) watch a catastrophe.  Something to tweet about!  Something to blame XYZ for!

[Pen]

8 minutes ago, SKL said:

Well this is why they didn't want people to freak out and act like everything was going to come to a screeching halt.  So there would still be TP for everyone.

 

Yes. I do think the some official minimizing was on purpose so that people realizing situation and getting stocked up would be more gradual rather than sudden panic. Itself s curve flattening. 

8 minutes ago, SKL said:

I haven't been shopping, but I hear from a number of people that there is NO toilet paper in the stores.  This is ridiculous.

On a lighter note - am I the only person who buys toilet paper online via Subscribe & Save?

 

I also have a Subscribe and Save for TP. 

Normally I try to set it up so I am not out, but not getting ahead either, maybe down to a roll or two (sometimes needing a few individual rolls extra from local store though they don’t carry as good a type for our septic system) when next order comes in.  

I am looking at my Subscribe & Save list to see what I should change.  I will probably put TP onto my March delivery so that I then have a set of TP ahead instead of just a roll or two, and then let it go on usual just about right amount that I worked out. 

Store I was at yesterday (not a discount big box store) had fully stocked TP shelves. 

Edited March 12, 2020 by Pen

[itsheresomewhere]

Just now, square_25 said:

 

I don't even understand this one, lol. Toilet paper is not actually essential for survival. (As a child of post-communist Ukraine, ask me how I know...) 

I do get it in a way.  I have a very close friend who always has a good stock of tp in her house.  Whenever any of her kids or her get sick ( cold, allergies,etc) they get stomach issues.  I feel for anyone who has that issue.

[SKL]

As far as school being out, here we are used to snow days etc., and they have in recent years been preparing snow day packets of work kids can do at home.  In addition, one year when we had a lot of snow days, they extended the school day / school year a little bit to make up enough missed hours.  Hopefully if they do close the k-8 schools, it won't be super long and they can do these kinds of things to help compensate.  For our school, maybe they will also move spring break up (normally it is after Easter).

At the moment, where I live, they are still having school and some extracurriculars.  Some extracurriculars have been canceled.

[Pen]

13 minutes ago, square_25 said:

 

I don't even understand this one, lol. Toilet paper is not actually essential for survival. (As a child of post-communist Ukraine, ask me how I know...) 

 

It isn’t. It seems to be something that people make runs on (pun possibly intended).

However, with CV19 it may be important even if not essential since the virus is apparently viable in feces for several days. 

So toilets, drains, sewers systems and function may all help mitigate — including TP

For us on septic system we also can’t substitute sheets from catalogs. We actually have to be careful even with in “septic safe” options as some tend to be more septic safe than others. 

 

(In our home we also use TP for nose blowing and coughing into — 😏 — real tissue for company and going out in public ...  okay we are peasants... well, also don’t need tissue often and it is annoying to have a box go bad during disuse which in our very wet environment does happen.)

Edited March 12, 2020 by Pen

[Pen]

26 minutes ago, square_25 said:

 

I agree. We haven't been avoiding gatherings for the last couple of weeks, and thinking about it, we probably should have been. I figured that containment was hopeless, anyway, so why bother? But having thought more about it, obviously flattening the curve is the right thing to do, and I regret not having done social distancing earlier. 

Now to convince everyone else I'm not running around shouting the sky is falling and am merely trying to react in a rational way to updated data... 

 

Yes. That’s why I was arguing with you about the “too late” comments.

It is not to late to flatten the curve and that would make a huge difference!

 

It is also not too late to slow down transmission into communities that don’t yet have a case 0 or case 1.  Which will also help flatten curve, and maybe ultimately be able to help with sending relief medical workers to places that get overwhelmed.   That could be tougher in USA due to state licensing— so Idaho may not be able to help send health workers to Washington in same way as after storm electricity restorers and wildfire season fire fighters go to where needed. But could probably have exceptions made for state of emergency. 

[Matryoshka]

7 minutes ago, square_25 said:

Anyone want me to think a decision through? 

As I said, I'm pulling my kids out of group activities starting today. However... I also have group activities, namely, I teach two homeschool math classes every week at the local homeschool center. Should I cancel those? I feel bad letting down the director of our homeschooling center, and I know that people may accuse me of fearmongering. 

I was planning to just keep teaching them (but not bring my kids), but is that just me making a bad decision out of a desire to not rock the boat?

I teach five kids from two families Spanish every Thursday at one of their houses.  I'm planning on going today, but I'm going to ask them if they might like to switch to Zoom starting next week.  Now I'm hoping Zoom isn't totally overwhelmed by everyone else doing the same thing...

[Pen]

9 minutes ago, square_25 said:

Anyone want me to think a decision through? 

As I said, I'm pulling my kids out of group activities starting today. However... I also have group activities, namely, I teach two homeschool math classes every week at the local homeschool center. Should I cancel those? I feel bad letting down the director of our homeschooling center, and I know that people may accuse me of fearmongering. 

I was planning to just keep teaching them (but not bring my kids), but is that just me making a bad decision out of a desire to not rock the boat?

 

I think you should initiate a switch to online delivery .