wuhan - coronavirus

[Mom_to3]

That is simply awesome!!! A vaxathon...fantastic.

[chocolate-chip chooky]

2 hours ago, lewelma said:

Today is NZ's vaxathon. 🙂 The government is trying to get the numbers up from 82% to 90%, so the entire country is focused today on just this one thing. All major political parties are out campaigning for it, plus athletes, actors, general famous people, Māori, etc.  And  then all the businesses are giving away free stuff - so KFC is vaccinating and giving away free chicken. And AirNZ is vaccinating in their airplanes, etc. They are even running an old-fashioned telethon on TV, and one on Māori TV too. So far the numbers are awesome.

1.7% of the ENTIRE population of NZ has shown up to get vaccinated by 2pm, and we have 5 hours to go!  

2:45pm we are at 1.9%! 

Apparently all the digital signs on all the highways all over the country are advertising to go get vaccinated. And there are people on the side of the road with signs offering free food and party hats.  LOL.

3:10pm we just hit 2%!

A gardening store is giving vaccines with a tomato plant to take home. 🙂

That is so fabulous. Go NZ!!

It really seems like the places with a sense of 'we're in this together' are the ones doing well.

[bookbard]

2 hours ago, lewelma said:

Today is NZ's vaxathon.

That sounds so awesome and fun.

Sad news in Australia - the first child to pass with Covid, a 15yr old in Victoria.

319 cases in NSW, 20 in ACT, 1993 in Victoria. 0 elsewhere. A snap lockdown in Tas because a belligerent anti-masker anti-vaxxer with Covid escaped quarantine and wandered around. He's refused to say where he went.

We got a letter from our school - must return unless have a dr certificate, and the NSW is 'investigating' the ventilation situation. We have agreed we won't send them back immediately. 44 schools have closed this week due to Covid - and school isn't even officially back yet. 

[Ausmumof3]

24 minutes ago, bookbard said:

That sounds so awesome and fun.

Sad news in Australia - the first child to pass with Covid, a 15yr old in Victoria.

319 cases in NSW, 20 in ACT, 1993 in Victoria. 0 elsewhere. A snap lockdown in Tas because a belligerent anti-masker anti-vaxxer with Covid escaped quarantine and wandered around. He's refused to say where he went.

We got a letter from our school - must return unless have a dr certificate, and the NSW is 'investigating' the ventilation situation. We have agreed we won't send them back immediately. 44 schools have closed this week due to Covid - and school isn't even officially back yet. 

Oh man 😞
 

Good decision on keeping the kids home I think. It’s just not worth it yet.

Edited October 16, 2021 by Ausmumof3

[Ausmumof3]

53 minutes ago, lewelma said:

I've been watching the vaxathon TV live on and off today, and they are highlighting the baker bringing down the donuts to give away, and the Pacifica community teaching people how to dance, and Taika Waititi offering anyone vaccinated today a chance as an extra in his next movie. All the mayors, MPs, CEOs of all parties are out promoting events. The vaxi taxis and jabin wagons have driven out to the rural areas. It is just a party all over the country. 

And so far there is only one antivax protest nationwide that they are reporting but only in the small print. All the News channels and websites are just running pro-vaccine articles all day.

4:15 we are at 2.2% of the entire population of NZ showing up to get vaccinated.

5pm we are at 2.4%!!

What an awesome idea!

[Melissa Louise]

1 hour ago, bookbard said:

That sounds so awesome and fun.

Sad news in Australia - the first child to pass with Covid, a 15yr old in Victoria.

319 cases in NSW, 20 in ACT, 1993 in Victoria. 0 elsewhere. A snap lockdown in Tas because a belligerent anti-masker anti-vaxxer with Covid escaped quarantine and wandered around. He's refused to say where he went.

We got a letter from our school - must return unless have a dr certificate, and the NSW is 'investigating' the ventilation situation. We have agreed we won't send them back immediately. 44 schools have closed this week due to Covid - and school isn't even officially back yet. 

There's a grudging note somewhere on the Depts info that if your child doesn't return to school, some basic resources might be provided for them - I think they know some families are not going to send their children back next week. 

[lewelma]

5 hours ago, lewelma said:

Today is NZ's vaxathon. 🙂 

We finished the night with 2.6% of the entire population, and 3.2% of the eligible population (>12yo) that showed up today to get vaccinated. A very good increase!

Edited October 16, 2021 by lewelma

[bookbard]

13 minutes ago, lewelma said:

We finished the night with 2.6% of the entire population, and 3.2% of the eligible population (>12yo) that showed up today to get vaccinated. A very good increase!

Fantastic news!

So I have been thinking that if the kids vaccine comes out and we get good coverage (likely I'd say in NZ/Australia at least), that would surely help reduce the overall risk of covid circulating, right? As in, it could really help bring the risk of covid down significantly, even when we do open up internationally?

[ktgrok]

1 hour ago, bookbard said:

Fantastic news!

So I have been thinking that if the kids vaccine comes out and we get good coverage (likely I'd say in NZ/Australia at least), that would surely help reduce the overall risk of covid circulating, right? As in, it could really help bring the risk of covid down significantly, even when we do open up internationally?

Absolutely. the idea is to make it hard for the virus to spread. The more vaccinated people around an infected person, the better. Those who are getting breakthrough infections seem to be catching it mostly from exposure to unvaccinated people. So if everyone is vaccinated, much less spread. Right now, with kids unvaccinated, we can't accomplish that in most places, because kids will and do get together unmasked. 

[Ausmumof3]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8201243/#__ffn_sectitle
 

In this study, a cohort of 117 COVID-19 survivors (post-COVID-19) and 144 non-infected volunteers (COVID-19-free) was analyzed using pyrosequencing of defined CpG islands previously identified as suitable for biological age determination. The results show a consistent biological age increase in the post-COVID-19 population, determining a DeltaAge acceleration of 10.45 ± 7.29 years (+5.25 years above the range of normality) compared with 3.68 ± 8.17 years for the COVID-19-free population (p < 0.0001). A significant telomere shortening parallels this finding in the post-COVID-19 cohort compared with COVID-19-free subjects (p < 0.0001). Additionally, ACE2 expression was decreased in post-COVID-19 patients, compared with the COVID-19-free population, while DPP-4 did not change. In light of these observations, we hypothesize that some epigenetic alterations are associated with the post-COVID-19 condition, particularly in younger patients (< 60 years).

[melmichigan]

17 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8201243/#__ffn_sectitle
 

In this study, a cohort of 117 COVID-19 survivors (post-COVID-19) and 144 non-infected volunteers (COVID-19-free) was analyzed using pyrosequencing of defined CpG islands previously identified as suitable for biological age determination. The results show a consistent biological age increase in the post-COVID-19 population, determining a DeltaAge acceleration of 10.45 ± 7.29 years (+5.25 years above the range of normality) compared with 3.68 ± 8.17 years for the COVID-19-free population (p < 0.0001). A significant telomere shortening parallels this finding in the post-COVID-19 cohort compared with COVID-19-free subjects (p < 0.0001). Additionally, ACE2 expression was decreased in post-COVID-19 patients, compared with the COVID-19-free population, while DPP-4 did not change. In light of these observations, we hypothesize that some epigenetic alterations are associated with the post-COVID-19 condition, particularly in younger patients (< 60 years).

Just one more reason I don't want it.

[Ausmumof3]

Vic 1838

NSW 301

[Ausmumof3]

[bookbard]

80% of people in NSW are double vaccinated. An incredible 99% of those in the ACT (Canberra) have one dose - 78% fully. And 70% fully vaccinated in Victoria which is fantastic. There are still pockets where it's low, though, both rural and city areas, so it's reaching those areas that's important. 

[Ausmumof3]

I don’t know how much others are interested in how the rest of the world is faring at all still?  Russia is dealing with biggest numbers and deaths on record officially with 998 deaths today.  China has an outbreak in an area bordering Myanmar, difficult to know of course with China how bad it is.  Must admit every outbreak feels like the chance for yet another variant to pop up.  I have seen a few mentions about UK cases being on the way up again but not sure how accurate that is.

[melmichigan]

3 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I don’t know how much others are interested in how the rest of the world is faring at all still?  Russia is dealing with biggest numbers and deaths on record officially with 998 deaths today.  China has an outbreak in an area bordering Myanmar, difficult to know of course with China how bad it is.  Must admit every outbreak feels like the chance for yet another variant to pop up.  I have seen a few mentions about UK cases being on the way up again but not sure how accurate that is.

I still follow what is going on around the world and appreciate the posts.

[KSera]

4 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Must admit every outbreak feels like the chance for yet another variant to pop up.

I was hoping to reach a point where transmission was low enough before that happened, but it’s  becoming an increasing concern. Someone posed a question yesterday about what would happen with the vax hesitant if this mutates to something with a 20-30% fatality rate. That’s a horrifying thought and at this point, I honestly have no idea how many would stampede to the vax site and how many would continue to dig in their heels and die for the right not to vaccinate. Scary thought. 

[Corraleno]

5 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

 I have seen a few mentions about UK cases being on the way up again but not sure how accurate that is.

That is accurate, cases are really high and still trending upwards. So far hospitalizations and deaths have remained lower, since nearly 80% of the adult population is fully vaxed, but those may go up as immunity continues to wane. 

[TCB]

I was wondering if those of you from Australia and New Zealand could comment on if there are reports of serious side effects etc from the vaccines now that your countries are vaccinating so many people so quickly. In the initial stages of the vaccination program in Australia some of you seemed to be reporting a possible vaccine related death quite frequently, but I had not seen that for a while.

I believe the vaccines to be very safe from what I’ve read, and seen myself, but of course the rumors swirl around on social media, and I talk to vaccine hesitant people who believe them. I suggested to a couple of people at work, that if they wanted to know the truth, they should keep up with how things are going in New Zealand, as they are vaccinating so many.

[Melissa in Australia]

It is impossible to know. It isn't widely reported.

I have heard that an emergancy department  at a major hospital in Melbourne is having between 35 to 45 people per hour turning up with reactions, but the majority are just after reassurance that they are OK. After having the triage nurses run some tests most go home happy that it is within the range if normal. 

Edited October 17, 2021 by Melissa in Australia

[Melissa Louise]

6 minutes ago, TCB said:

I was wondering if those of you from Australia and New Zealand could comment on if there are reports of serious side effects etc from the vaccines now that your countries are vaccinating so many people so quickly. In the initial stages of the vaccination program in Australia some of you seemed to be reporting a possible vaccine related death quite frequently, but I had not seen that for a while.

I believe the vaccines to be very safe from what I’ve read, and seen myself, but of course the rumors swirl around on social media, and I talk to vaccine hesitant people who believe them. I suggested to a couple of people at work, that if they wanted to know the truth, they should keep up with how things are going in New Zealand, as they are vaccinating so many.

Serious side effects are extremely rare. I forget what the rates are - much less than the same risk of blood clotting due to Covid.

There was an article a little while ago talking about how we're doing better than the UK in dealing with severe AZ-related side effects, mostly just to do with patient and health care education. People come in earlier with headache/abdominal pain; potential complications recognized/treated earlier. 

Reports, though, have probably dropped off due to greater use of Pfizer. People definitely have died as a result of their AZ vaccination. 

[Melissa in Australia]

My brother had blood clots from Astra zennica. 3 days after his second dose. He was hospitalised twice and given anti coagalents introvinously. 

[TCB]

12 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

Serious side effects are extremely rare. I forget what the rates are - much less than the same risk of blood clotting due to Covid.

There was an article a little while ago talking about how we're doing better than the UK in dealing with severe AZ-related side effects, mostly just to do with patient and health care education. People come in earlier with headache/abdominal pain; potential complications recognized/treated earlier. 

Reports, though, have probably dropped off due to greater use of Pfizer. People definitely have died as a result of their AZ vaccination. 

Don’t want to give the impression that I don’t believe there are serious effects, that are rare. Maybe it is the use of Pfizer which has changed things there. It was interesting to note that there had not been any comments recently, and that seemed interesting since so many vaccinations were being given. I hope that the people who believe that thousands are dying from the mRNA vaccines, might be able to look at another country and maybe begin to question that. 

[TCB]

13 minutes ago, Melissa in Australia said:

My brother had blood clots from Astra zennica. 3 days after his second dose. He was hospitalised twice and given anti coagalents introvinously. 

I remember he had problems but hadn’t realized he was hospitalized. I hope he’s better now.

[Melissa in Australia]

2 minutes ago, TCB said:

I remember he had problems but hadn’t realized he was hospitalized. I hope he’s better now.

 Thank you. He is better now. 

 But his blood clots were not recorded in the national data as a reaction to the vaccine, which really has caused great levels if concern amongst extended family and a great deal of vaccine hesitancy. As it seems that information is not being reported accurately. 

[Melissa Louise]

4 minutes ago, TCB said:

Don’t want to give the impression that I don’t believe there are serious effects, that are rare. Maybe it is the use of Pfizer which has changed things there. It was interesting to note that there had not been any comments recently, and that seemed interesting since so many vaccinations were being given. I hope that the people who believe that thousands are dying from the mRNA vaccines, might be able to look at another country and maybe begin to question that. 

There are fewer AZ deaths over the last little while, for sure. Likely to be because of increased use of Pfizer + better treatment of AZ-illness.

Lots and lots of Pfizer in Sydney - no reports of deaths or even hospitalizations. 

The most common complaint is from women re change in periods (early/late/longer) and being told by GPs it's all in their heads or because if 'stress'. 

 

[Ausmumof3]

50 minutes ago, Melissa in Australia said:

My brother had blood clots from Astra zennica. 3 days after his second dose. He was hospitalised twice and given anti coagalents introvinously. 

How is he doing now? Sorry just realised you already answered that down thread. There is a phone number you can call to record your post vaccine stuff i think I’ll see if I can find it.  I enrolled my kids to do a follow up survey at 3 10 and 30 days so that’s been good.

Edited October 17, 2021 by Ausmumof3

[Ausmumof3]

AEFIs can be reported via the SAEFVIC website 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. 

Alternatively, you can call SAEFVIC on 1300 882 924 (Option 1). Hours of operation are Monday - Friday 9.00am - 4.00pm.

For further information about SAEFVIC please refer to Melbourne vaccination education centre - SAEFVIC.
 

@Melissa in Australia

https://www2.health.vic.gov.au/public-health/immunisation/adverse-events-following-immunisation-reporting
 

I would definitely encourage him to report here as we want the best possible data on vaccine safety.

[Ausmumof3]

1 hour ago, TCB said:

I was wondering if those of you from Australia and New Zealand could comment on if there are reports of serious side effects etc from the vaccines now that your countries are vaccinating so many people so quickly. In the initial stages of the vaccination program in Australia some of you seemed to be reporting a possible vaccine related death quite frequently, but I had not seen that for a while.

I believe the vaccines to be very safe from what I’ve read, and seen myself, but of course the rumors swirl around on social media, and I talk to vaccine hesitant people who believe them. I suggested to a couple of people at work, that if they wanted to know the truth, they should keep up with how things are going in New Zealand, as they are vaccinating so many.

I think the mRNA vaccines are available to all age groups now. The issue was with the adenovirus ones.  Having said that the media has had a bit of flak for supposedly “beating up vaccine deaths” causing hesitancy.  I don’t really think that’s true of the ABC at least - maybe commercial media, I think reporting info as it comes in is better for trust but maybe there’s less going on now.

[Ausmumof3]

https://www.tga.gov.au/periodic/covid-19-vaccine-weekly-safety-report-19-08-2021
 

TGA report here. 8 reports of likely TTS in the last week.  A total of 112 for 8.1 million doses. There are 7 deaths that have definitely been confirmed as linked to the vaccines.

 Full data set available here

https://www.tga.gov.au/database-adverse-event-notifications-daen

[Melissa in Australia]

41 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

AEFIs can be reported via the SAEFVIC website 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. 

Alternatively, you can call SAEFVIC on 1300 882 924 (Option 1). Hours of operation are Monday - Friday 9.00am - 4.00pm.

For further information about SAEFVIC please refer to Melbourne vaccination education centre - SAEFVIC.
 

@Melissa in Australia

https://www2.health.vic.gov.au/public-health/immunisation/adverse-events-following-immunisation-reporting
 

I would definitely encourage him to report here as we want the best possible data on vaccine safety.

Thank you. I will pass that on to my brother. Greatly appreciated

 

[Ausmumof3]

Yep

[mommyoffive]

State of Affairs: Oct 17 - by Katelyn Jetelina - Your Local Epidemiologist (substack.com)

The Delta wave continues to decrease in the United States. Cases have now declined 51% since its peak and now we’re averaging 86,000 daily cases. This is a welcome reprieve, but 86,000 per day is still a lot. In fact, higher than the peaks in Wave 1 and 2.

If we let our guard down too quickly, the United States could easily mirror the UK. The UK peaked on September 9 but after two weeks of decreasing, the UK reversed course. Cases are now exponentially increasing while the rest of Europe is fairing very well.

In September, 49,500 deaths could have been prevented with a vaccine.

COVID19 continues to be a top 10 leading cause of death across all age groups. Yes, that includes 1-17 year olds. In fact, it’s the #1 cause of death for 35-54 years olds in August and September 2021.

[whitestavern]

2 hours ago, Melissa in Australia said:

 Thank you. He is better now. 

 But his blood clots were not recorded in the national data as a reaction to the vaccine, which really has caused great levels if concern amongst extended family and a great deal of vaccine hesitancy. As it seems that information is not being reported accurately. 

That is unfortunate. This should have been reported.

I got together with three neighbor couples last night. Hadn't seen any of them since pre Covid. 3 out of 6 vaxxed have had breakthrough cases. One of the women, a hematologist (very pro vaccine) is on bp meds for life now, she says due to the vaccine. Her sister has afib from getting the vaccine. No idea if these are confirmed by docs or self confirmed. She is still pro vaxx. Another neighbor relayed that her teen nephew died in his sleep. Natural causes. She didn't draw any connections to his vaccination, but I sure wondered. My daughter's friend (and boyfriend of her roomie) died of a heart attack last week at school. Natural causes. I wonder if any of these are being reported. Just a lot of vaxx related issues I'm hearing about recently. 

Edited October 18, 2021 by whitestavern

[whitestavern]

2 hours ago, Melissa Louise said:

There are fewer AZ deaths over the last little while, for sure. Likely to be because of increased use of Pfizer + better treatment of AZ-illness.

Lots and lots of Pfizer in Sydney - no reports of deaths or even hospitalizations. 

The most common complaint is from women re change in periods (early/late/longer) and being told by GPs it's all in their heads or because if 'stress'. 

 

This is such a common reporting (and there's currently a study being conducted on it) that i'm surprised their GPs are not aware of it!

[lewelma]

NZ news has not reported any serious side effects from Pfizer.  Australia was/is using AstraZeneca which has more problems, but I don't think it is available in the USA. 

[KSera]

14 minutes ago, whitestavern said:

Just a lot of vaxx related issues I'm hearing about recently. 

What makes you say these are facts related when none of them have been connected to the vaccine? If anything, the likelihood is far greater that someone died in their sleep due to Covid than from the vaccine. I don’t know why the first thought that you would have would be that he died in his sleep through the vaccine. 
 

eta: for the lady who has a fib after having had a Covid infection, it appears there is a link between having Covid and developing a fib: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33078484/

Edited October 18, 2021 by KSera

[whitestavern]

4 minutes ago, KSera said:

What makes you say these are facts related when none of them have been connected to the vaccine? If anything, the likelihood is far greater that someone died in their sleep due to Covid than from the vaccine. I don’t know why the first thought that you would have would be that he died in his sleep through the vaccine. 

Ummm  because the woman and her sister who had issues, she told me were vaxx related. The nephew of my friend was not diagnosed with covid, nor was my D's friend. 

Edited October 18, 2021 by whitestavern

[KSera]

19 minutes ago, whitestavern said:

No idea if these are confirmed by docs or self confirmed

 

6 minutes ago, whitestavern said:

Ummm  because the woman and her sister who had issues, she told me were vaxx related. The woman with the nephew who died was not diagnosed with covid, nor was my D's friend. 

The above is why I asked. And with the nephew; you said they didn’t mention Covid at all, so I wondered why you would jump to that. Just seemed like a weird jump to make based on nothing. 
 

eta: The reason why I’m making a point on this is because I think a lot of what is happening right now is people read things like that and then they report to someone else that someone they know knows two young people who died of the Covid vaccine and two who developed heart problems. When actually, none of that is known at all. And then a game of telephone ensues and the misinformation spreads and grows.

Edited October 18, 2021 by KSera

[Melissa in Australia]

1 hour ago, KSera said:

 

The above is why I asked. And with the nephew; you said they didn’t mention Covid at all, so I wondered why you would jump to that. Just seemed like a weird jump to make based on nothing. 
 

eta: The reason why I’m making a point on this is because I think a lot of what is happening right now is people read things like that and then they report to someone else that someone they know knows two young people who died of the Covid vaccine and two who developed heart problems. When actually, none of that is known at all. And then a game of telephone ensues and the misinformation spreads and grows.

Possably, but the strange thing is that things like exactly whitestaven are saying are happening. I don't know many people. My brother had a blood clot directly related to astra zennica, my next door neighbours brother  died within 12 hours of being vaxed of a heart attack. Not recorded as a result of vax but it makes unease in your mind

Not someone who told me of someone they heard about, but people that I am either directly related to or whom I have actually met. 

Edited October 18, 2021 by Melissa in Australia
Grammar

[KSera]

6 minutes ago, Melissa in Australia said:

Possably, but the strange thing is that things like exactly whitestaven are saying are happening. I don't know many people. My brother had a blood clot directly related to astra zennica, my next door neighbours brother  died within 12 hours of being vaxed of a heart attack. Not recorded as a result of vax but it makes unease in your mind

Not someone who told me of someone they heard about, but people that I am either directly related to or whom I have actually met. 

Yes, I remember your brother's blood clot clearly, and those things do occasionally happen unfortunately, but that's different from the second hand reports of unverified information. I've noticed a very strong correlation that it's almost always anti-vax people that have all these stories, and people who are vaccinated very rarely do. It's uncanny enough to notice. The vaccinated people who know someone who had a bad reaction usually know of one case and it is a verified thing, not a list of a bunch of people they think died after the vaccine. It just doesn't match up with the real world to think that there are all these people dying of the vaccine yet no one is recording it. The insinuation would have to be that doctors don't care and wouldn't report it if this were happening, which is a really crappy thing to suggest about doctors (and the medical examiner or coroner would have to be going along with it as well). Nurses would be seeing it as well. So, it does leave one scratching their head.

[TCB]

26 minutes ago, KSera said:

Yes, I remember your brother's blood clot clearly, and those things do occasionally happen unfortunately, but that's different from the second hand reports of unverified information. I've noticed a very strong correlation that it's almost always anti-vax people that have all these stories, and people who are vaccinated very rarely do. It's uncanny enough to notice. The vaccinated people who know someone who had a bad reaction usually know of one case and it is a verified thing, not a list of a bunch of people they think died after the vaccine. It just doesn't match up with the real world to think that there are all these people dying of the vaccine yet no one is recording it. The insinuation would have to be that doctors don't care and wouldn't report it if this were happening, which is a really crappy thing to suggest about doctors (and the medical examiner or coroner would have to be going along with it as well). Nurses would be seeing it as well. So, it does leave one scratching their head.

The whole thing is pretty disheartening. I don’t even know what to say, but truth is very hard to come by these days. I work in a hospital. I would have thought that if so many vaccination deaths were occurring then I would have seen at least some there. I’m fairly certain that if there were serious frequent issues New Zealand would be seeing lots of it as they’ve vaccinated so many. It’s ironic really but the same people I know who said that many deaths were being wrongfully labeled as Covid, are now saying they’re vaccine deaths. All I can bear witness to is that I have seen many people actually die of Covid and I don’t think I’ve seen anyone die from vaccination.

[KSera]

(I wish we had a symbol that meant “agree” rather than “like”. I’m certainly not liking that you’ve seen so many Covid deaths (nor that there’s so much misinformation).)

[Jean in Newcastle]

The issues are:

1) there are different vaccines  Astra Zeneca is very different from Pfizer or Moderna for example.  Their risk profiles are different.  If someone is telling people who had Pfizer to watch out for issues that are primarily from A-Z, then that's an issue. 

2.)  you can get the vaccine and already have Covid and perhaps you might not even know it.  Problems that happen within that two weeks window when the vaccine is reaching maximum efficacy are difficult to pinpoint as to cause.  It could be the vaccine.  It could be the virus.  It could be something else.  (This isn't denying issues, it's just recognizing that the cause-effect isn't simple.)

 

[wathe]

1 hour ago, TCB said:

The whole thing is pretty disheartening. I don’t even know what to say, but truth is very hard to come by these days. I work in a hospital. I would have thought that if so many vaccination deaths were occurring then I would have seen at least some there. I’m fairly certain that if there were serious frequent issues New Zealand would be seeing lots of it as they’ve vaccinated so many. It’s ironic really but the same people I know who said that many deaths were being wrongfully labeled as Covid, are now saying they’re vaccine deaths. All I can bear witness to is that I have seen many people actually die of Covid and I don’t think I’ve seen anyone die from vaccination.

I think the issue is differentiating signal from noise.  When a large fraction of the population is getting the same vaccine all in a short time period, of course a proportion of people are going to have medical events shortly after their vaccine just by chance - the question is would these people have had these medical events anyway (correlation) or were these medical events because of the vaccine (causation).  Individual cases are impossible to know if the vaccine was causal or not.  Lots of noise.  Looking at reports of suspected vaccine related events on a population basis is helpful., because we can look at rates of various events and compare them to background rates  - and sort the signal from the noise.  Blood clots and AZ, myocarditis and mRNA covid vaccines, shingles, allergic reactions, and  lymphadenopathy all have clear signal suggesting causality when looked at in populations.  Hypertension and A.-fib don't, to the best of my knowledge.

My experience mirrors TCB's.  The stories that make adverse events post-vax seem frequent don't match what we're seeing in ED's.  Very, very few adverse events.  I haven't seen single serious one.  I'm in city of more than a hundred thousand, with only one hospital.  If serious adverse events were common, we should be seeing them.  And we just aren't

What we have been seeing is very sick covid cases.  We've admitted hundreds of those.

 

[Jean in Newcastle]

Also - transient effects from the vaccine are different from long-term problems.  Most of the issues people have told me about are transient effects.  They might last days or a week, but then then settle down.  Some of these effects are similar to the kinds of effects that you can get from any vaccine, not just the Covid vaccines.  I went into an autoimmune flare after my Covid vaccines but I go into an autoimmune flare after any vaccine. 

But those few long-term problems are worrisome to me.  But since Covid has the same potential for long-term problems, or worse, it's still a better bet to get the vaccine, in my opinion. 

[bookbard]

265 new covid cases for NSW, 1903 for Victoria, so both down a bit (but again could be due to the weekend). Tasmania lifting lockdown tonight - no spread detected there. 

School back for some today - my friend's son was the only child sent to her school wearing a mask. Didn't stay on long as you can imagine. 

[whitestavern]

9 hours ago, Melissa in Australia said:

Possably, but the strange thing is that things like exactly whitestaven are saying are happening. I don't know many people. My brother had a blood clot directly related to astra zennica, my next door neighbours brother  died within 12 hours of being vaxed of a heart attack. Not recorded as a result of vax but it makes unease in your mind

Not someone who told me of someone they heard about, but people that I am either directly related to or whom I have actually met. 

Not sure how old your brother is, but Finland's health authorities announced that men under 30 will not get the Moderna shot. Sweden banned Moderna for everyone under the age of 30; Denmark did the same for people under 18. Norway is urging people under 30 to choose Pfizer rather than Moderna. Iceland halted all distribution of Moderna. England, Norway, and Hong Kong are limiting teens to only one dose. Someone on here posted similar about their Canadian province. US has delayed its decision on Moderna in teens. There's no consensus on what is safest, but there are clearly some concerns with vaccines for teens/youngish adults.

[Not_a_Number]

7 hours ago, wathe said:

What we have been seeing is very sick covid cases.  We've admitted hundreds of those.

And of course, there are fewer people getting COVID at once than there are people getting vaxxed at once. So not only do you have a SMALLER group of COVID patients overall, but you have many more negative effects. 

[mommyoffive]

Colin Powell Dies at 84 From Covid-19 Complications (msn.com)