wuhan - coronavirus

[Carrie12345]

12 minutes ago, Garga said:

I told one friend (calmly, without any drama, just stating quiet facts) about the 2 weeks of food and the vitamins and she laughed at me and said I was being silly.  This makes me not want to talk to people about it.  It’s not like I’m stocking up on 50 cans of beans and 50 pounds of rice, but I have a feeling that a lot of people will assume that I’m panicking and hoarding even if I calmly state, “Yeah, I figured I would want a little extra food in case they ask us to stay out of public place

There are very, VERY few people I’ll talk with about it IRL, because I’m way worse than you, lol. I managed to get my family through 2+ months of the flu over a decade ago with almost no shopping, and was so proud of myself that I’ve spent all this time making sure I could do it even better if I had to do it again!  Normal people would think I’m insane. And maybe I am, but I do know that I’m not television-worthy-insane, so there’s that.

[Garga]

1 minute ago, Carrie12345 said:

There are very, VERY few people I’ll talk with about it IRL, because I’m way worse than you, lol. I managed to get my family through 2+ months of the flu over a decade ago with almost no shopping, and was so proud of myself that I’ve spent all this time making sure I could do it even better if I had to do it again!  Normal people would think I’m insane. And maybe I am, but I do know that I’m not television-worthy-insane, so there’s that.

I do have to admit that now that I have the 2 extra weeks of food, I’m tempted to go for 3-4 weeks.  And if we are quarantined, I already know that I’ll be insisting that we eat at or barely above the minimum number of calories we need for our weights.  No gorging until we’re stuffed.  But I’m trying react and not overreact, though the temptation is there.

[Aura]

Was busy yesterday and didn't get much chance to get on here. Took me a bit to catch up!

The meeting for dd's Italy trip was very informative...but not wrt the coronavirus, at least, not from meeting itself. The department holding the meeting said that they would have no input on that decision; it would come from above them.  Dd shared that the university already stopped trips to China, and the students were reimbursed for the fees, courses, etc. I'm not sure about tickets. The kids were supposed to get those themselves, and dd said most had not even done that before their trips were cancelled. 

At the meeting, though, I was able to talk to a dad who is a pilot for a major airline (I've known this man for several years now). He works out of the Atlanta airport and is gone from home for days to weeks at a time. This past week he flew from Toronto to Atlanta. As they approached Atlanta, he got a message saying that a passenger needed to be allowed to disembark before anyone else because the CDC was waiting for them at the terminal because that person had COVID-19. Neither the pilot nor anyone else on the plane had any idea that an infected person was on the plane. I don't know if the airline knew about this in advance and did not share it with anyone, not even the pilot (which was what he seemed to think was going on) or if the CDC tracked down that individual and located him/her mid-flight.

Between things like this, other stories of people who have been exposed being turned down for testing, the whole DP fiasco, the Italy cases, and the faulty test kits that the US sent out (not just to states but to 30 other countries!) which has led to there only being THREE places here in the US that can test for the virus ... I really feel like no one really knows what's going on. Officials are playing catch-up. They're not staying ahead of anything and pretty much everything is reactionary.

[beaners]

Beyond having food for a few weeks on hand without going out, I'm having trouble imagining the financial aftermath of two or three weeks of quarantine for most of the population. Not working for three weeks would be a major emergency on its own for a lot of people. We live in the middle of a city that is mostly below the poverty level.

[Garga]

33 minutes ago, Aura said:

Was busy yesterday and didn't get much chance to get on here. Took me a bit to catch up!

The meeting for dd's Italy trip was very informative...but not wrt the coronavirus, at least, not from meeting itself. The department holding the meeting said that they would have no input on that decision; it would come from above them.  Dd shared that the university already stopped trips to China, and the students were reimbursed for the fees, courses, etc. I'm not sure about tickets. The kids were supposed to get those themselves, and dd said most had not even done that before their trips were cancelled. 

At the meeting, though, I was able to talk to a dad who is a pilot for a major airline (I've known this man for several years now). He works out of the Atlanta airport and is gone from home for days to weeks at a time. This past week he flew from Toronto to Atlanta. As they approached Atlanta, he got a message saying that a passenger needed to be allowed to disembark before anyone else because the CDC was waiting for them at the terminal because that person had COVID-19. Neither the pilot nor anyone else on the plane had any idea that an infected person was on the plane. I don't know if the airline knew about this in advance and did not share it with anyone, not even the pilot (which was what he seemed to think was going on) or if the CDC tracked down that individual and located him/her mid-flight.

Between things like this, other stories of people who have been exposed being turned down for testing, the whole DP fiasco, the Italy cases, and the faulty test kits that the US sent out (not just to states but to 30 other countries!) which has led to there only being THREE places here in the US that can test for the virus ... I really feel like no one really knows what's going on. Officials are playing catch-up. They're not staying ahead of anything and pretty much everything is reactionary.

So he was on a plane with a confirmed case of Covid-19, and now he and all the other passengers and going about their lives?  Standing right next to you having a conversation, breathing the same air as you?  

Welp.  There’s basically no containment for this, is there?  Not even an attempt really.  

Edited February 23, 2020 by Garga

[Garga]

11 minutes ago, beaners said:

Beyond having food for a few weeks on hand without going out, I'm having trouble imagining the financial aftermath of two or three weeks of quarantine for most of the population. Not working for three weeks would be a major emergency on its own for a lot of people. We live in the middle of a city that is mostly below the poverty level.

I’ve thought about this, too.  What happens when everything is shut down and businesses aren’t bringing in any income and can’t pay their workers?  Restaurants, theaters, shops, etc.

I’ve also thought about the poorest of the poor. We make cookies and cupcakes for various homeless shelters, and I’ve been wondering what’s going to happen at those shelters.  Who will be willing to go out and feed the homeless?  We don’t normally go. We make the baked goods and others that we know take them to the shelter.  Will that keep happening?  Will people keep going and passing out food?

 

Edited February 23, 2020 by Garga

[Farrar]

4 minutes ago, Garga said:

So he was on a plane with a confirmed case of Covid-19, and now he and all the other passengers and going about their lives?  Standing right next to you have a conversation?  

Welp.  There’s basically no containment for this, is there?  Not even an attempt really.  

All the precautions still assume that it's only able to be transmitted when someone is symptomatic. It seems like that might not be true. I mean, at least on the east coast, I've already got some mild stuffy early pollen stuff. And apparently that's the level of symptoms that some people feel. That's it. When you add in that there are hot spots cropping up where no one knows how people were exposed, then that's serious trouble. I mean, on Friday, if you were living in a small village in northern Italy and you felt a little off and had a bit of a cough, but you've literally never been to China and don't know anyone who has, would you ever, in a million years think you had this thing? Yet, that's what has happened. Boom, there are more than 150 cases and most of them the Italian and European authorities have zero clue where they got it.

[Aura]

1 minute ago, Garga said:

So he was on a plane with a confirmed case of Covid-19, and now he and all the other passengers and going about their lives?  Standing right next to you have a conversation?  

Welp.  There’s basically no containment for this, is there?  Not even an attempt really.  

 

He said he cleaned up as best he could when he got off the plane, also tried to disinfect as best as possible before heading home, then took his shoes off before he went inside his home, went straight to the shower, etc. Also, the air wasn't working that great on the plane, so he was hoping that nothing really circulated into the cockpit. 

I know he doesn't want to spread this, but he was given no guidelines for afterwards. He was doing his best based on the information he knew.

So what exactly what are we being told about possible exposure. NOTHING. Just go about your day and IF YOU DEVELOP SYMPTOMS, then get seen. They're not testing possible exposure. (They can't.) 

So yeah, I agree, there's basically no containment. at. all.

I really hope this virus isn't as bad as it appears, that it's really only a very small percentage of people that develop complications.

[Ausmumof3]

So I woke up to 

Italy now has 155 cases and sadly a 3rd death (elderly lady in oncology)

another doctor in Wuhan has died aged 42

4 new cases from Diamond Princess passengers in the UK.

Turkey, Afghanistan, Armenia and Pakistan closing borders with Iran

Venice Carnival shut down and shows cancelled in Milan La Scala

Schools in Lombardy region shut down and also in Tehran

I can’t remember if I posted last night that there were another 57 cases on Diamond a princess, mostly crew.  Ships total is 691.  At least 36 are seriously ill.

[Farrar]

And yet again, I'll say it. Once it's here in the US, it'll spread even faster than in other places because there will be a huge number of people who avoid treatment because of the cost. The fact that so many victims have such a mild version I think will make it worse because people will think, okay, that'll be me, I'll be fine.

[Ausmumof3]

Locally here people are talking about it but not in a prepper kind of way just in a jokey way mostly.  My parents are taking it somewhat seriously and I’m glad for that because they are older (and one is immune compromised).  I’m being extra careful with not seeing them if the kids have a sniffle down the next few weeks.

[mathnerd]

23 minutes ago, beaners said:

Beyond having food for a few weeks on hand without going out, I'm having trouble imagining the financial aftermath of two or three weeks of quarantine for most of the population. Not working for three weeks would be a major emergency on its own for a lot of people. We live in the middle of a city that is mostly below the poverty level.

I am worried about the financial hit this will create for large supermarket chains, eat-in restaurants, concert organizers, tourism industry and basically any industry where people congregate in order for them to make money. I simply cannot imagine myself walking around my local supermarket pushing a shopping cart that had been handled by someone else recently if and when there is a county wide stay at home advisory. I can only imagine how much of a toll this would take on the service industry 😞

[Spryte]

I’m at the ER with my elderly mom (for a fall).  There are self serve masks available at the door, for anyone with flu or who has “traveled to China” according to the sign.  I was surprised to see masks available, but glad.  

[Arcadia]

7 minutes ago, mathnerd said:

I am worried about the financial hit this will create for large supermarket chains, eat-in restaurants, concert organizers, tourism industry and basically any industry where people congregate in order for them to make money. 

 

Large supermarket chains might have to earn from home deliveries.

This article on the financial impact for Singapore is quite well written https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/21/coronavirus-minister-on-singapores-financial-buffer-to-help-economy.html

[MEmama]

58 minutes ago, Aura said:

Was busy yesterday and didn't get much chance to get on here. Took me a bit to catch up!

The meeting for dd's Italy trip was very informative...but not wrt the coronavirus, at least, not from meeting itself. The department holding the meeting said that they would have no input on that decision; it would come from above them.  Dd shared that the university already stopped trips to China, and the students were reimbursed for the fees, courses, etc. I'm not sure about tickets. The kids were supposed to get those themselves, and dd said most had not even done that before their trips were cancelled. 

At the meeting, though, I was able to talk to a dad who is a pilot for a major airline (I've known this man for several years now). He works out of the Atlanta airport and is gone from home for days to weeks at a time. This past week he flew from Toronto to Atlanta. As they approached Atlanta, he got a message saying that a passenger needed to be allowed to disembark before anyone else because the CDC was waiting for them at the terminal because that person had COVID-19. Neither the pilot nor anyone else on the plane had any idea that an infected person was on the plane. I don't know if the airline knew about this in advance and did not share it with anyone, not even the pilot (which was what he seemed to think was going on) or if the CDC tracked down that individual and located him/her mid-flight.

Between things like this, other stories of people who have been exposed being turned down for testing, the whole DP fiasco, the Italy cases, and the faulty test kits that the US sent out (not just to states but to 30 other countries!) which has led to there only being THREE places here in the US that can test for the virus ... I really feel like no one really knows what's going on. Officials are playing catch-up. They're not staying ahead of anything and pretty much everything is reactionary.

We just got back from San Francisco. On our flight from Boston, our plane turned around on the runway right before takeoff because a passenger felt sick and needed to return to the airport. Later in the air, a call was made over the intercom asking if there was a doctor on board. In neither case were we told what the illnesses were, nor do I feel confident there would have been an effort to tell us if either passenger is suspected to carry COVID 19. 
 

I'm thinking stocking up on a few weeks essentials is a solid idea. A stay in place order can come to any community without warning and I’d rather feel somewhat prepared with at least the basic essentials.

 

[Aura]

33 minutes ago, Farrar said:

And yet again, I'll say it. Once it's here in the US, it'll spread even faster than in other places because there will be a huge number of people who avoid treatment because of the cost. The fact that so many victims have such a mild version I think will make it worse because people will think, okay, that'll be me, I'll be fine.

And I've seen several news reports about how the flu is doing a second wave this season here in the US. So while some people will actually have the flu, those that have mild cases of COVID-19, will probably assume it's a cold or flu and self-treat. And continue to go to work/school because going to a doctor not only means money out of pocket, but they'll have to miss work/school--which is not allowed in many cases w/o a doctor's note!

ETA: Below is not directed at anyone and is really me just ranting about the situation.

And I reject the whole notion of not giving accurate information for fear of starting a panic. If officials were honest from the beginning then most people won't panic. But they will prepare. And businesses can prepare. And communities can prepare.

Every year, hurricanes hit the SE USA. People prep for it. They do clear out shelves when a storm is coming. But stores know what's going on and limit quantities and try to order things in advance. Communities prepare places to ride out the storm. No one is rioting in the streets! Mostly people just do what needs to be done and lives are saved. The idea that people should be treated like children and not told the truth about things is something I just don't agree with. Withholding information causes more problems. Imagine the outcry if weather stations downplayed a major hurricane that's clearly visible on radar.

But I don't know whether it's because they don't want to share the truth for fear of a panic, or whether they simply don't know! Stupid decisions like the ones wrt to the DP passengers and then this situation w/ my pilot friend really reek of ineptness and inefficiency. 

I expect the US to be like Italy at some point. Everything's going normal for most people, then all of a sudden, schools close, towns are quarantined, etc. So I'm preparing for that. 

Edited February 23, 2020 by Aura

[Pen]

B

Quote

I'm going to order some more emergency supplies. My family keeps eating my "hurricane and blizzard food." 

 

I just ate a bunch of my own “power out” food (kale chips and granola bars) .  (Can’t even blame anyone else) Sigh.  

 

Edited February 23, 2020 by Pen

[Carrie12345]

3 hours ago, Pen said:

 

Currently.  

By next year most hospitals may be full.

We transported these people all the way from Japan.   They most likely were already infected. 

 

2 minutes ago, ByeByeMartha said:

Everyone who contracts the virus isn’t required to go to a hospital as I understand it. Some are sent home...self-quarantined. I wonder if the CDC knows the percentage of people who contract it and need hospital care. 

Sure, but most hospitals already operate near, at, or above capacity. You can only add so much more to that.

[prairiewindmomma]

I agree that true containment of a virus with these characteristics was never possible. We know that from previous outbreaks from things like H1N1. I think governments are wrong by hyperfocusing messaging on containment only. Containment IS a very valuable tool. It buys time to train healthcare workers again on PPE, to acquire supplies, to set up preparations. But signaling that containment is the only strategy is dangerous because when it fails, people lose faith in the capability of their government. Instead, there should be messaging on the importance of handwashing, on the importance of social distancing (avoiding large crowds, setting up work from home if possible, etc.), on how to triage medical care from home, etc. The Singapore PM’s message a few weeks ago (Feb 7???) was spot on.

The world is starting to wake up, but even my own parents don’t believe anything is going to happen because of the early messaging about how the flu is worse. May we all get a mild version of Covid-19—but all of the collateral impacts are still likely to happen (lost productivity, lost income for some, supply disruptions, strain on healthcare system, etc.) At some point, things will escalate to where it can’t be ignored any more and we will see what happens then.

[Pen]

1 hour ago, Garga said:

I do have to admit that now that I have the 2 extra weeks of food, I’m tempted to go for 3-4 weeks.  And if we are quarantined, I already know that I’ll be insisting that we eat at or barely above the minimum number of calories we need for our weights.  No gorging until we’re stuffed.  But I’m trying react and not overreact, though the temptation is there.

 

I live in an area with a bridge connnection to roads leading to stores which has flooded out several times since I’be loved here, plus almost yearly a winter storm takes out electric and make getting anywhere difficult/unsafe so that only essential service workers should do it.  Plus always in summer there’s wildfire risk.

So I like to have a couple of weeks at least, especially in winter, and as long as it’s stuff we use, it mostly all does get used up bit by bit (occasionally something goes bad, gets wet, or something else happens before use can happen, but pretty cheap for the parts wasted especially if compost is still an option). 

I think as long as you don’t do it in a make a run on x type way that gradually building up your larder is a good idea.

As we come into spring, I am putting focus on garden since that would keep healthy greens going fresh whether or not there’s a quarantine situation. 

[Pen]

9 minutes ago, ByeByeMartha said:

Everyone who contracts the virus isn’t required to go to a hospital as I understand it. Some are sent home...self-quarantined. I wonder if the CDC knows the percentage of people who contract it and need hospital care. 

 

At least 20% current figures suggest.  Many need ICU .  Check your local population figures versus critical care and aerosol isolation beds available!

”full” can mean demand exceeds available resources 

[Pen]

16 minutes ago, ByeByeMartha said:

And some of our resources( Dr's, nurses, staff) may contract the virus too so that makes the situation even worse.

 

Right.

 

here’s this morning Dr John talk 😊

 

 

(Today’s talk is very much on point to what you are talking/asking about. )

Edited February 23, 2020 by Pen

[Ausmumof3]

 

Austria has stopped trains coming in from Italy. 

[Ausmumof3]

Locally I’m seeing disinfectant and antibacterial products as well as emergency type foods in prominent planes making me think while people aren’t saying they take it seriously some people are quietly stocking up.

[MEmama]

9 minutes ago, ByeByeMartha said:

We have plans to visit my ILs in Europe this spring. We haven't seen them in 2 yrs and dhs grandmother's health is failing. I'm torn about whether we should still go. 😔

We have a trip planned to the UK and Ireland this spring, and my parents are spending 3 months in Europe, partially in Venice.

I think all we can do at this point is wait and see. 

[Pen]

26 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

 

Austria has stopped trains coming in from Italy. 

 

Carnival has been shut down. 

[Ausmumof3]

http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1180552.shtml
 

food distribution in Wuhan.

I must admit I’m surprised to see this as I didn’t expect that kind of report from media from China.  

[beaners]

47 minutes ago, ByeByeMartha said:

Do they? Yikes. I'll have to talk to my nurse friend about our local hospitals.

I wonder what the official protocol is for epidemics. I would think the CDC has one. Unfortunately whenever I see emergency situations, it appears like officials have no clue.🙄

 

Flu season already maxes things here. My super complex kid got bumped from the ICU to a regular floor because "you are with her and you are knowledgeable" and they needed the beds for other people. Kids often wait in the ER's critical care unit until beds open on the actual floor. People wait days to be transferred to the university hospital from other hospital ERs in the state. That's the same hospital designated for our state for these kinds of outbreaks. 

People want to either be among the very first to catch this so that there are adequate medical resources, or among the very last to catch it so that we have discovered effective treatments.

[Pen]

35 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Locally I’m seeing disinfectant and antibacterial products as well as emergency type foods in prominent planes making me think while people aren’t saying they take it seriously some people are quietly stocking up.

 

Probably so.

I am in my own way 😊

I am about to pour my Usnea tincture that I made yesterday into ...   oops I did not think through need for something like a bottle for it.  🤔  and a warm dark place would be best.  Hmmm.  🤔  This is Feb in a northern latitude we have cold and dark.  Cold and dark will have to do.   

I may make an oil infusion of usnea  also.  

 

Then I’m considering making  lungwort tree lichen tincture. It was used by native Americans locally for whooping cough.  Not sure that would have any relevance other than respiratory connection, but due to strong winds there happens to be a lot lying around my driveway like with the usnea.   So maybe I’ll just make some.  

Then I could go in search of Oregon Grape and or red cedar needles...   or not.   We have a ton of invasive scotch broom.  Would be nice if it were antiviral!!!

3 hours ago, Carrie12345 said:

There are very, VERY few people I’ll talk with about it IRL, because I’m way worse than you, lol. I managed to get my family through 2+ months of the flu over a decade ago with almost no shopping, and was so proud of myself that I’ve spent all this time making sure I could do it even better if I had to do it again!  Normal people would think I’m insane. And maybe I am, but I do know that I’m not television-worthy-insane, so there’s that.

So what are you doing better this time?  My big concern if I couldn’t go shopping is eggs.  I am doing pretty well on most other stuff as long as the power doesn’t go out.

[regentrude]

2 hours ago, Farrar said:

 Once it's here in the US, it'll spread even faster than in other places because there will be a huge number of people who avoid treatment because of the cost. The fact that so many victims have such a mild version I think will make it worse because people will think, okay, that'll be me, I'll be fine.

Isn't there no treatment for this anyway, unless you'e so ill that they need extreme measures to help organ function? A person with a moderate case wouldn't seek medical attention but just stay home. irrespective of cost, simply because nothing can be done for them. 

[Ausmumof3]

And Austria resumes train traffic with Italy. 

[Arcadia]

1 hour ago, ByeByeMartha said:

I wonder what the official protocol is for epidemics. I would think the CDC has one. Unfortunately whenever I see emergency situations, it appears like officials have no clue.🙄

From CDC https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/hcp-hospital-checklist.html

“All U.S. hospitals should be prepared for the possible arrival of patients with Coronavirus Disease
2019 (COVID-19). All hospitals should ensure their staff are trained, equipped and capable of
practices needed to:

• Prevent the spread of respiratory diseases including COVID-19 within the facility
• Promptly identify and isolate patients with possible COVID-19 and inform the correct facility staff and public health authorities
• Care for a limited number of patients with confirmed or suspected COVID-19 as part of routine operations
• Potentially care for a larger number of patients in the context of an escalating outbreak
• Monitor and manage any healthcare personnel that might be exposed to COVID-19
• Communicate effectively within the facility and plan for appropriate external communication related to COVID-19

The following checklist does not describe mandatory requirements or standards; rather, it highlights important areas for hospitals to review in preparation for potential arrivals of COVID-19 patients.

Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) Hospital Preparedness Tool [2 pages]”

Interim Infection Prevention and Control Recommendations for Patients with Confirmed Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) or Persons Under Investigation for COVID-19 in Healthcare Settings

Updated February 21, 2020 https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nCoV/hcp/infection-control.html

Healthcare Infection Prevention and Control FAQs for COVID-19 https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/infection-prevention-control-faq.html

 

 

[Arcadia]

44 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

Probably so.

I am in my own way 😊

 

1 hour ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Locally I’m seeing disinfectant and antibacterial products as well as emergency type foods in prominent planes making me think while people aren’t saying they take it seriously some people are quietly stocking up.

It was hard for my friends in Singapore to find hand sanitizers and Dettol on store shelves. Now it’s back on store shelves. So fast stocks replenishment isn’t guaranteed. Sambucol syrup is also hard to find there.

[Pen]

2 hours ago, ByeByeMartha said:

Everyone who contracts the virus isn’t required to go to a hospital as I understand it. Some are sent home...self-quarantined. I wonder if the CDC knows the percentage of people who contract it and need hospital care. 

 

More figures for you —

in Italy, ~ 18% are in critical care in ICU — or dead

an additional large percent are sick enough to require hospital help short of ICU.  

I had had figures for at home and at hospital but can’t find them right now.  

However you can calculate the critical condition cases from information on Worldometer. 

 

Edited February 23, 2020 by Pen

[Pen]

5 minutes ago, Plum said:

One thing I've noticed while watching the news is people not using hand sanitizing products correctly. For proper disinfection, you need to basically wash your hands with it. Get into the nail beds and cuticles, between the fingers, top and bottom of the hand. It can't just be pump, quickly rub hands, wipe on pants...lol 

 

And need to leave it on for contact time.  

[Carrie12345]

29 minutes ago, Mom2mthj said:

So what are you doing better this time?  My big concern if I couldn’t go shopping is eggs.  I am doing pretty well on most other stuff as long as the power doesn’t go out.

It’s not something I’m doing better “this time”, it’s just what I do, and it’s specific to my household. For example, it’s not unusual for us to lose power, so I have lots of ways to cook without it. 
There isn’t really anything I *need to do right now, though I do find myself throwing extra hand sanitizer in with my purchases any time I go out for normal shopping.

[Acadie]

44 minutes ago, regentrude said:

Isn't there no treatment for this anyway, unless you'e so ill that they need extreme measures to help organ function? A person with a moderate case wouldn't seek medical attention but just stay home. irrespective of cost, simply because nothing can be done for them. 

There's a difference between intensive care and supportive care that still requires hospitalization.  If about 20% of cases require hospitalization, that means they're sick enough to need oxygen, IV fluids and/or antibiotics for secondary bacterial infections, which often complicate viral pneumonia. Without that supportive care, many more in that group would go on to need intensive care or die. So even though there's no treatment to fight the infection, at this point, supportive care still keeps many people alive who would otherwise succumb to the illness. 

 

[Ali in OR]

A man mentioned at church this morning that his wife is in the hospital, and she had to be transferred up to Portland because our hospital is full. I'm guessing it's flu season stuff, but we're already at capacity without any COVID19 going on here.

[Shoeless]

4 hours ago, Garga said:

I told one friend (calmly, without any drama, just stating quiet facts) about the 2 weeks of food and the vitamins and she laughed at me and said I was being silly.  This makes me not want to talk to people about it.  It’s not like I’m stocking up on 50 cans of beans and 50 pounds of rice, but I have a feeling that a lot of people will assume that I’m panicking and hoarding even if I calmly state, “Yeah, I figured I would want a little extra food in case they ask us to stay out of public places.”

It was a little difficult to go to church this morning. They still do the “let’s all greet each other with a handshake,” thing, and the seats are very close together and I was thinking about how we’re all breathing on each other and touching each other’s hands.

I don’t feel anxious, but I do feel like the virus news needs to be noted and some moderate efforts to prepare for a house quarantine should be taken, though the odds are slim that it would actually happen in my neck of the small-town woods.

 

 

I don't mention my "stockpile" to anyone, (just the word stockpile makes me sound like a loon), because it's met with eye rolls.  No one I know would be prepared in the event of quarantine.  There's also a lot of "live free or die!" types around here, and I can envision a lot of tension due to people yelling about their freedoms being trampled due to quarantine and refusing to comply.  I know way, way too many people who have a "Lol, wut germz?!" attitude about illness. Like, they just don't care if they spread *or* catch illnesses, because they don't believe any of this stuff could actually harm them or anyone else.  It's all a lot of drama and fear tactics from "Big Pharma" to steal your money.  I could rant for hours and hours about this, but I'll stop. 

I'm expecting that this virus will become endemic.   

[Pen]

3 minutes ago, Plum said:

In my city, we have micro hospitals that have ERs that would be perfect for localized overflow if it came down to it.

 

Perfect for what? And in what way?

 

[Shoeless]

1 hour ago, Plum said:

It certainly doesn’t hurt to reduce outings to stores and large public gatherings, especially during cold and flu season.  

 

Thank you!  Every time I say this, I get crazy-eye from people.  Avoiding the children's museum and air travel during flu season does not mean I'm hiding in a bunker, lol. 

[Pen]

Worldometer update - Italy: 

• Mayor of one of the towns in lockdown says they've run out of coronavirus testing kits. [source] [source]
• ECDC: "As the situation is rapidly evolving, more cases are expected in Italy [...] Extraordinary measures in northern Italy are essential to limit the outbreak and may need to be replicated in other communities in the coming days."

[Pen]

5 hours ago, Aura said:

Was busy yesterday and didn't get much chance to get on here. Took me a bit to catch up!

The meeting for dd's Italy trip was very informative...but not wrt the coronavirus, at least, not from meeting itself. The department holding the meeting said that they would have no input on that decision; it would come from above them.  Dd shared that the university already stopped trips to China, and the students were reimbursed for the fees, courses, etc. I'm not sure about tickets. The kids were supposed to get those themselves, and dd said most had not even done that before their trips were cancelled. 

At the meeting, though, I was able to talk to a dad who is a pilot for a major airline (I've known this man for several years now). He works out of the Atlanta airport and is gone from home for days to weeks at a time. This past week he flew from Toronto to Atlanta. As they approached Atlanta, he got a message saying that a passenger needed to be allowed to disembark before anyone else because the CDC was waiting for them at the terminal because that person had COVID-19. Neither the pilot nor anyone else on the plane had any idea that an infected person was on the plane. I don't know if the airline knew about this in advance and did not share it with anyone, not even the pilot (which was what he seemed to think was going on) or if the CDC tracked down that individual and located him/her mid-flight.

Between things like this, other stories of people who have been exposed being turned down for testing, the whole DP fiasco, the Italy cases, and the faulty test kits that the US sent out (not just to states but to 30 other countries!) which has led to there only being THREE places here in the US that can test for the virus ... I really feel like no one really knows what's going on. Officials are playing catch-up. They're not staying ahead of anything and pretty much everything is reactionary.

 

I would start making plans for a domestic summer.

[Pen]

1 hour ago, Ali in OR said:

A man mentioned at church this morning that his wife is in the hospital, and she had to be transferred up to Portland because our hospital is full. I'm guessing it's flu season stuff, but we're already at capacity without any COVID19 going on here.

 

I don’t know.  Here’s current state flu info—

https://www.oregon.gov/oha/PH/DISEASESCONDITIONS/COMMUNICABLEDISEASE/DISEASESURVEILLANCEDATA/INFLUENZA/Documents/data/FluBites.pdf

 

It doesn’t look like there have been very many flu cases this whole past week for the state.  It seems unlikely that your hospital is full due to influenza

Edited February 24, 2020 by Pen

[Pen]

I saw some reports that initial symptoms for some people may be gastrointestinal or muscle joint pain.  

[Ausmumof3]

the update from Hubei hasn’t been posted yet.  It’s normally posted about three hours earlier.

last time they posted this late was the day they listed 14,000 cases.

[Ausmumof3]

161 new cases and one new death for South Korea.  Total 763 cases and 7 deaths.  1 death per 100 cases seems to be common for the non China cases so far.  The exception to that is Diamond Princess. I suspect that’s because they are testing everybody meaning even those with no or mild symptoms are picked up.  However this is all likely to change as it runs its course.

i don’t know if anyone heard how the Abels were found.  Last I heard they had been moved to a different hospital and the family had lost track of them for 24 hours before they located them.  They didn’t have internet access until they managed to find someone who spoke English to help with the wifi password.

 

[Ausmumof3]

From Global Times

China's General Administration of Customs vowed to enhance joint efforts with various departments to crack down on wild animal trafficking. The novel #coronavirus, based on current research, originated from bats and was transferred to humans.

[Ausmumof3]

BNO:

“It has now been over 4 hours since Hubei province was supposed to release their daily update; China's National Health Commission update is also 2 hours late”
 

Also the last time these figures were delayed was the day after China agreed to allow WHO to come.  Today is the day after they agreed to allow them in Wuhan.