Would you keep this puppy?

[DesertBlossom]

Please don't quote, may delete later.

Moral of the story is don't buy puppies from craigslist and meet in parking lots for the transaction. But what's done is done.

Seller said puppy was from an accidental litter with a French Mastiff and a Pyrenees. Buyer, just for fun, did a DNA test shortly after getting puppy and it came back as 50% American Staffordshire Terrier (aka: pitbull), 25% Pyrenees and the rest "other." If you google pitbull puppy, the pics look just like this pup. (DNA test did not require a picture sent in)  Buyer sent seller a nice text inquiring about this, asking if maybe they were wrong about the breed of either parent. Seller has not responded. 

Buyer loves the pup but is concerned about some behaviors. At 10-12 weeks he is already showing food aggression. While being socialized with some other (much bigger) pups, he found a bone in the yard and was growling and very aggressive about it. 

Buyer has young children and likes to take his dogs to large family gatherings where there are always lots of kids and often multiple other dogs. They often have neighbor kids over to play to the house. 

So many people say that it's all about how you raise and train the pup and the breed shouldn't matter. Buyer obviously doesn't know anything about the temperament of either parent. Buyer is not a dog expert, beyond basic obedience training. 

*I* am not the buyer, however, my family would be in contact with this dog on a regular basis. 

Would YOU keep this puppy? 

[Farrar]

I'm not answering the poll because I would not keep any puppy. Also, if the puppy at any point shows any real aggression to the children, the dog is gone. I don't care what the pedigree is.

But that said, we know tons of folks, including families with pit bull mixes. A good friend with three kids has two totally different looking, born a couple years apart and totally unrelated sweet pit bull mixes. They're a handful... but also not aggressive to people at all or to each other. One of them is absolutely aggressive to other dogs. My sister has a (now pretty old) pit bull mix and another dog and a baby. No issues. I guess I just think the mixes are basically mutts. They can be good or bad but certainly emphasis on the good.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I would but I am not a new dog owner. 

[Corraleno]

The pittie part wouldn't bother me, because I love pitties, but I might be concerned about the combination of an inexperienced owner and a large, strong, "opinionated" dog. Can the owner enroll the puppy in obedience classes or hire an experienced trainer? If the owner doesn't keep the puppy, what happens — will the breeder take it back, is there a foster home available through a local rescue, or is the puppy going to be dumped in a shelter?

[Shoeless]

I would keep the puppy and commit to rigorous behavior training program.  I would not bring the dog to social events with other dogs, and the dog would be crated when kids come over.  Regardless of breed, not all dogs are ok at big, people-y events. Some dogs never do well with a bunch of other dogs, either.  Some dogs need a LOT of work to make them good companions. 

If the owner isn't willing to do the work with the puppy, then it will lead to problems, and it would be better to rehome the dog. 

[MercyA]

It would be incredibly difficult, but no, I don't think I'd keep the puppy in that situation. 😞 However, neither would I surrender the puppy to a kill shelter. If the previous owner was unsuitable or wouldn't take the puppy back, I would search high and low for a good breed-specific rescue or no-kill rescue and give a sizable donation if need be so that puppy can go to a more suitable home. Sometimes a generous donation (say, enough to cover puppy's neutering surgery and a little extra) can help create an opening. A long drive might be necessary.

I have owned an aggressive dog and aggression can not always be trained or even medicated out. If the owner was an adult with no young children and no expectations of taking the dog to places with young children, then it might work. 

I think my answer would be the same for any breed.

Edited January 15, 2020 by MercyA

[Chris in VA]

No. Easier to find it a home now while it is still cute and little, so if rehoming (or to a foster type shelter arrangement), do it NOW. 

[Carrie12345]

I voted yes/train, but will admit that my vote is based on personal feeling without regard to the “business transaction” end of things.

I’ve had my own experience with the downsides of getting a puppy off of the internet, but mine was a give-away, not a purchase.  I was so alarmed by someone handing out small breed puppies to anyone and worried about the kind of folks that would take them, egged on  by my emotions over my last baby no longer being a baby,  I just grabbed a puppy with no real, and some false, information on that puppy. (Who turned out to be a micro-dog!). So, yeah, I know stuff happens, but I didn’t give money for something that was described one way and receive something else that was almost definitely known by the seller.

A large percentage of dogs in my area are pitt/Pitt mixes.  I find that they, like all the other dogs in the area, can be nearly impossible or terrific.  My dd loves the breed. I just don’t think they’re nearly as adorable as some others, for the most part. It has nothing to do with their reputation. (We’ve had a GSD mix and a Rottie mix, so we don’t really breed discriminate. And I’ve met some real jerk GSDs and Rotties.)

I’d want serious obedience training for any dog of that size/strength who showed some negative behaviors.  I don’t think it’s at all unusual for any dog to get possessive about a found bone, and food aggression itself is a common reason for training regardless of breed.  Honestly, my 3.5lb dog is in need of some focused training.  Even though he can’t really hurt us, some of his behaviors now and then are a giant PITA!

All that said, as much as I’d hate to see a dog, and particularly another pit bull mix, go into a shelter/rescue, I do believe a family has to do what’s best for them first.  If they are too nervous to do what the dog needs to succeed, they’re just going to wind up with a bigger problem and the dog isn’t going to have a happy life.

[Pawz4me]

6 hours ago, DesertBlossom said:

So many people say that it's all about how you raise and train the pup and the breed shouldn't matter. Buyer obviously doesn't know anything about the temperament of either parent. Buyer is not a dog expert, beyond basic obedience training. 

I'm not going to vote, because I'd want to see the puppy's behavior for myself before deciding. One incident alone--no, I can't make any determination at all just on that. It raises huge red flags for me about the owners that they thought a Pyreness and Mastiff mix would be a good fit for a pet home with young kids, and a dog who they could take to gatherings with lots of other dogs and kids around. Yikes!! That tells me they don't have much dog knowledge at all and didn't do any serious research on breeds. And it's another reason I wouldn't jump to accept their interpretation of what happened with the bone.

But what I really wanted to address is the bolded part above, which is one of the biggest lies ever told in the dog world and drives me batty. See this --

It's Not "All in How You Raise Them": The Role of Genetics in Behavior

[Scarlett]

I am voting do not keep,  because of the specific circumstances you described.  It should  be easy to rehome now while he is little and cute...and a lot of people like Pitt mixes.

Xh and I had a Pitt/Boxer mix—-best dog ever.  But his personality was very strong.  He was very protective of our yard,  but we took him everywhere with us and he was not aggressive out in public.  And we were young 20s when we got him and really knew nothing about nothing as far as dogs go.  

[ktgrok]

I didn't vote as there isn't enough information. 

Is the growling to protect a bone from other dogs the only food aggression shown? If so, thats pretty darned normal. Now, if the puppy saw ANOTHER dog with a bone and attacked it, that would be abnormal. But protecting a bone he already has from other dogs? Normal. 

MUCH more concerning would be the puppy growling or showing signs of food aggression with humans. If that is happening no, I would not keep the puppy. Or rather, I would tell most people that they should not keep the puppy. I personally would but I have a long background in dog training and animal behavior, and depending on how bad it was I'd perhaps feel I was the best person to work with the dog. (if it was scary bad - like sociopath puppy - I would most likely have the puppy euthanized rather than pass it along to someone else but in my 20 years working with animals I've only known two puppies that met that criteria out of thousands)

The breed thing wouldn't bother me one bit. Honestly, a Pyrenees is WAY more likely to be a problem in a family environment with people coming and going and visiting than a pit bull. In fact, pit pulls are one of my preferred breeds for family situation. However, they CAN have a genetic tendency toward DOG aggression (not human aggression - different thing entirely) which may possibly be what you are seeing. But most don't and without more info I just can't say. 

But if the worst thing is the puppy growled when other dogs tried to take its bone, that is not a red flag to me. Neither is the breed. This is my favorite photo of my pit mix with my oldest son. She was a total princess who's biggest skill was finding the softest place in the house to lay down. 

[ktgrok]

2 hours ago, Pawz4me said:

I'm not going to vote, because I'd want to see the puppy's behavior for myself before deciding. One incident alone--no, I can't make any determination at all just on that. It raises huge red flags for me about the owners that they thought a Pyreness and Mastiff mix would be a good fit for a pet home with young kids, and a dog who they could take to gatherings with lots of other dogs and kids around. Yikes!! That tells me they don't have much dog knowledge at all and didn't do any serious research on breeds. And it's another reason I wouldn't jump to accept their interpretation of what happened with the bone.

But what I really wanted to address is the bolded part above, which is one of the biggest lies ever told in the dog world and drives me batty. See this --

It's Not "All in How You Raise Them": The Role of Genetics in Behavior

AMEN!!!!!!

I get so tired of hearing "must have been abused" about dogs with issues. No, it might just be genetically messed up. Happens. 

Also, closely tied in is the VERY earliest exposure/experiences - hard to figure out which is at play sometimes. My pit mix above did go through a bit of reactivity (won't call it aggression as to me aggression = intent to harm vs just being a loudmouth and well reacting). She was 6 months old about when it started, barking and reacting to novel things - new people walking in the room, walking in the neighborhood and someone had parked a boat in their yard to wash and she knew boats don't go in yards, the dumbest/weirdest was when she started barking like a maniac in a parking lot and I finally realized she was freaked out by a jeep that had the spare tire mounted on the back. Apparently tires were only supposed to be under the vehicle, on the ground, not mounted up high. Sigh. (by the way, this level of situational awareness was way more likely to be the shepherd genetics in her, not the pit bull genetics - herding dogs are bred to be very aware of the environment and changes in it - sometimes flipping to TOO aware.)

Now, I had adopted her from a very nice shelter when she was 6 weeks old. She was born there. She'd never been abused. I'd socialized the living heck out of her, taking her to the vet clinic I worked at each day, to the park, to pedestrian malls, etc. There was no reason for this dog to be barking at a stranger walking in the room! But her mother was "not adoptable" according tot he shelter and had been put down I believe (reading between the lines) for behavioral reasons. So was this genetic (likely) or from her earliest exposures, when her eyes were still closed and she was nursing on mom - hearing mom growl and bark at workers when then came in ? Who knows. 

Now, we did fix this behavior for the most part - tons of counter conditioning, lots of exposure, and eventually just reducing her stress load by NOT taking her to work with me every day. She was being pushed over threshold day after day and never getting her cortisol back down - so in her case LESS socialization was better. She was an amazing dog and could go tot he dog park, would let visitors love all over her, etc as an adult. But we had to work on that and it was much harder than say, with my hound who is pretty much non reactive to novel things. 

[Emba]

I would not keep the puppy, but I wouldn’t have it to begin with. I do not enjoy puppies or training them. 

I also think that the normal breed characteristics of a Great Pyrenees could prove problematic, though, and in the situation described would be looking into that and seeing if the dog was likely to display any of them. It’s hard, though, when you’re not sure what behavior may or may not actually show up, and puppies are easier to rehome because most people do like them better.

[sangtarah]

1 hour ago, Ktgrok said:

 

 I don’t have a puppy opinion, but wanted to say how darling your pit mix is!
She reminds me of our first puppy in married life - a black mouth cur - which originally was dh’s parents and they “gave back” to us. 

[DesertBlossom]

3 hours ago, Pawz4me said:

I'm not going to vote, because I'd want to see the puppy's behavior for myself before deciding. One incident alone--no, I can't make any determination at all just on that. It raises huge red flags for me about the owners that they thought a Pyreness and Mastiff mix would be a good fit for a pet home with young kids, and a dog who they could take to gatherings with lots of other dogs and kids around. Yikes!! That tells me they don't have much dog knowledge at all and didn't do any serious research on breeds. And it's another reason I wouldn't jump to accept their interpretation of what happened with the bone.

But what I really wanted to address is the bolded part above, which is one of the biggest lies ever told in the dog world and drives me batty. See this --

It's Not "All in How You Raise Them": The Role of Genetics in Behavior

I was surprised by it because that was not a breed they had been talking about. Buyer admits it was impulsive. They just lost their family dog to old age who had been just fantastic for them. Buyer always has a dog, and has had several different breeds. Definitely a dog person who normally does a lot of research before jumping into something. Buyer is inclined to rehome but kids are attached now.

[ktgrok]

47 minutes ago, sangtarah said:

 I don’t have a puppy opinion, but wanted to say how darling your pit mix is!
She reminds me of our first puppy in married life - a black mouth cur - which originally was dh’s parents and they “gave back” to us. 

AWW!

Tara (pit mix) actually passed away a few years ago, but we still miss her! She was just such a girly princess 🙂

But also protective of the house in a bark at people at the door until told not to way - a door to door salesman once knocked and Tara barked ferociously (well, it looked that way anyway..she was a total mush) and the dude ran halfway back the walk. I told Tara to shush and went to talk to him. he said he was selling alarm systems but that I didn't need one, and left, lol. 

[gardenmom5]

nope, I wouldn't keep it.  too unpredictable, too much risk.

[ktgrok]

1 minute ago, gardenmom5 said:

nope, I wouldn't keep it.  too unpredictable, too much risk.

Based just on the puppy protecting its bone from the other dogs, or something else?

[Terabith]

Obama the cat growls more or less to himself while he's eating food he really likes.  Never seen a cat do that before.  It was very startling in a five week old kitten.  

[Pen]

IMO they need an reliable, honest, experienced (with tough breed dogs like pit bulls) trainer to help them with the dog, first of all to evaluate its behavior and temperament.  If the experienced trainer’s evaluation were that the puppy is showing abnormal behavior, seems unsound or too aggressive for the circumstances, then I would not keep it.  

But nothing you described sounded abnormal or dangerous.  Growling at other dogs about a bone isn’t a red flag to me. 

If you are worried because of the dog being around your family, with the buyer’s permission you could possibly hire someone to evaluate the dog so as to help determine safety for your own family.  And to help teach /train you and your children how to interact with the dog. 

I think many people would say that giving the puppy extensive socialization (as buyer seems to be doing) is a right thing to do.  

Puppy should also be being child and bite proofed.  

And trained. 

 

[gardenmom5]

1 hour ago, Ktgrok said:

Based just on the puppy protecting its bone from the other dogs, or something else?

based on growling, based on the genetics of the breed, based on owners who don't seem remotely capable of handling such a breed.

I'm familiar with your opinions on the breed - you've shared them enough.  I have as much right to my opinion as you do to yours.

[Selkie]

I think it's too hard to say without more information on the puppy's behavior. Other than growling at dogs when it had a bone, what else is the owner concerned about?

We have a pit mix and a Pyrenees/heeler mix and both are sweethearts who are great with kids and other dogs. We had a Pyrenees/coonhound mix in the past who was also wonderful. That's not to say that there aren't concerns or things to be aware of with pits (and Pyrs), but I wouldn't get rid of the puppy just on the basis of breed.

[DesertBlossom]

I am not sure on the details of all the behaviors he is concerned about.  While I know that this dog could turn out to be an excellent family dog, I know that he would be disappointed if his temperament is such that he can't accompany them on all outings where others dogs and children are present. And it seems like with both of those breeds' stereotypes, it would be easier to have a dog breed who is more likely to have the temperament he's looking for. Obviously it's not my decision to make. I just know how he loves to take his dogs everywhere and would feel bad if he couldn't.

Edited January 15, 2020 by DesertBlossom

[Selkie]

11 hours ago, Chris in VA said:

No. Easier to find it a home now while it is still cute and little, so if rehoming (or to a foster type shelter arrangement), do it NOW. 

This is exactly what I was going to say!

[Katy]

I wouldn't have gotten that breed mix when busy with small children, and I wouldn't keep the breed mix now given the circumstances.  It's easy to rehome a puppy.

[Pen]

 

15 hours ago, DesertBlossom said:

Would YOU keep this puppy? 

 

I personally would try to return it to its original home, or to rehome it to a more capable dog handling home.  And if the dog were yours, that’s what I’d suggest for you.

But if it is someone else’s dog, not a pretense that you are asking about someone else when it is yours, it’s not your call.  Is it?  

However, As you say it will frequently be at your home, having your own expert evaluate for safety would be worthwhile.  

Also, if someone is bitten or hurt while the dog is at your home you may have liability, even if it isn’t your dog.  Not to mention the emotional and other distress if your own child or a relative or friend child is hurt. 

Also be aware that some insurers have breed bans that include “pit bulls.”

[gardenmom5]

1 hour ago, Dotwithaperiod said:

Nope. I’d not take it to a kill shelter, but would work my tail off to find it another home. A pit bull-Pyrenees mix could still be a large, often stubborn and unfriendly to other animals and non- family members.  If they wanted one to play with little kids and go on outings, they were at fault for choosing the wrong combo( even the one they thought it was).

Pit bull owners need to be as trained as the dogs. Even the old pit bull & parolee tv lady will say that yes, they can make great pets,but yes, they can be prone to  dog aggression and require knowledgeable owners. Let’s admit it, some breeds are factually known to be more dog aggressive than others. Doesn’t mean your pit isn’t a sweetie and it doesn’t mean my Golden is to be trusted 100%. 

If the owner is totally willing to live for several years with the ‘worst’ it could be- not going in public with it, having a private spot for eating, crating  it when children or visitors are there, paying for special training, admitting that the child may not be strong enough to walk it on a leash, etc, then more power to them. But I’d hope they’d understand that at least one of the above is likely.

and even then, running the risk it only takes a second for an uncontrolled dog to run down the street and injure someone.

my dh was riding his bike on a main street - and someone's uncontrolled pitbull ran him down and knocked him into the street - fortunately there were no cars coming.  but there are times of day, it's nearly solid cars.  there was someone out there who gave all appearances of being the owner - and denied it.  police were called, guy and dog disappeared.

eta: - the dog was on a side street, it left the side street to knock him down.

Edited January 15, 2020 by gardenmom5

[gardenmom5]

1 hour ago, Pen said:

 

 

I personally would try to return it to its original home, or to rehome it to a more capable dog handling home.  And if the dog were yours, that’s what I’d suggest for you.

But if it is someone else’s dog, not a pretense that you are asking about someone else when it is yours, it’s not your call.  Is it?  

However, As you say it will frequently be at your home, having your own expert evaluate for safety would be worthwhile.  

Also, if someone is bitten or hurt while the dog is at your home you may have liability, even if it isn’t your dog.  Not to mention the emotional and other distress if your own child or a relative or friend child is hurt. 

Also be aware that some insurers have breed bans that include “pit bulls.”

while you can't tell your friend to get rid of her own dog -  allowing it in your home or on your property is something over which you do have power.  you can refuse.

ds's gf has GSDs & Huskies.  I haven't met any of them, by reputation they are well trained. - but I don't know them.  They have to meet my standard of behaviors (and training) to have regular and free roam in my home and property. (they're getting up there in age) I adore GSDs and have had two (one was highly neurotic - and I was young and dumb and the breeder was thrilled to dump her on me.- she had other puppies, her son brought out another and she told him to take it back and bring this one.  I blame the breeder this dog was neurotic, puppy mill.)  I learned a lot from that one - but I wouldn't recommend it ever.

there are cities that ban pit bulls - our state just passed a "you can't ban pit bulls" ordinance. BUT, there was a caveat -  they CAN ban pits that don't meet AKC Good canine citizen standards.

 

I'm too fed up with dog owners that won't even do what I consider fairly basic training. 

We had a professional here last week to meet with dudeling.  I have dd's dogs during the day so puppies aren't alone.. I corrected the puppy for jumping on her, I wouldn't let dogs run out the door - either when she was coming or going.  she didn't think either thing were a big deal.  I do - there are people who are vulnerable to a jumping dog and could easily be knocked down - even by a smaller one.  then there are those who simply don't like dogs - especially if they have muddy/wet feet. (the friendliest dog is a wet one.) umping on them.

- I'm still ticked at some family I took dudeling to one Halloween. THREE miniature poodles came tearing out the door heading who knew where, as soon as they opened it. It was Halloween!  they knew their dogs run, they knew they'd be opening the door - and they didn't confine them.  (especially if you have dogs who don't reliably come when called.)  I had an ASD child who was petrified of dogs - and promptly took off running down the street.  but there are more practical reasons. - like I've got to leave and don't have time to chase down a dog (or even call them) . . . .

and as for food/chewing aggression - one day they may be chewing on something you don't want them to have and need to take away now - either because it's something you want, or it's something that can harm them.  I've a friend whose large breed puppy got into poisonous mushrooms - enough to make him very sick before she was able to stop him.   

that's different from the "this is really fun I'm so excited, can we do this forever?" hyper grow I occasionally get when playing tug of war.

Edited January 15, 2020 by gardenmom5

[Pen]

2 hours ago, DesertBlossom said:

I am not sure on the details of all the behaviors he is concerned about.  While I know that this dog could turn out to be an excellent family dog, I know that he would be disappointed if his temperament is such that he can't accompany them on all outings where others dogs and children are present. And it seems like with both of those breeds' stereotypes, it would be easier to have a dog breed who is more likely to have the temperament he's looking for. Obviously it's not my decision to make. I just know how he loves to take his dogs everywhere and would feel bad if he couldn't.

 

If he wants your opinion, IMO it would be a good idea to rehome while the pup is still very rehomable.   The original breed x it was supposed to be would have been just as likely to be unsuccessful for circumstances and have wrong temperament as pit bull.   Guarding is what GP were bred for.  

 

He’d be better off starting with a dog from a breed likely to be a good family dog and suitable for visiting. A Golden Retriever, Labrador, Standard Poodle, Irish Setter, Beagle, Bichon Frise...   - there are many in different sizes and fur types that might suit.  And from a more reliable source

 

Edited January 15, 2020 by Pen

[gardenmom5]

5 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

If he wants your opinion, IMO it would be a good idea to rehome while the pup is still very rehomable.   The original breed x it was supposed to be would have been just as likely to be unsuccessful for circumstances and have wrong temperament as pit bull.   Guarding is what GP were bred for.  

 

He’d be better off starting with a dog from a breed likely to be a good family dog and suitable for visiting. A Golden Retriever, Labrador, Standard Poodle, Irish Setter, Beagle, Bichon Frise...   - there are many in different sizes and fur types that might suit.  And from a more reliable source

 

not a beagle - too high energy.

dogs have either fur or hair.  fur sheds - hair must be cut.   My friend's "fur" baby, still had a very silky coat.  hair tends to be less allergenic, and comes in different types.  some is soft - and some isn't.

even within a breed - temperament varies.  I was with my mom when picking out her Papillion.  one was a couch potato - the other had more energy.  "get the couch potato mom." both dogs were adults, and had been trained.  she was one of those breeders who basically kept "ownership" of the dog, she just let you possession.  wasn't all bad - she'd dog sit when my mom went to visit my brother, etc.  but after mom died - she wanted the dog back. 1dd had been thinking of keeping her (she was a very nice dog.) and opted to not go through the hassle of dealing with the breeder.

[DesertBlossom]

1 hour ago, Pen said:

 

But if it is someone else’s dog, not a pretense that you are asking about someone else when it is yours, it’s not your call.  Is it?  

He was the one who brought up possibly rehoming it. I told him I wouldn't blame him at all if he did. When I asked about it, he sounded like he was still considering it but the kids love it. The dog would rarely be at my house, but we are together on campouts and other gatherings. 

[Pawz4me]

3 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

not a beagle - too high energy.

 

Many--I would say most--beagles aren't high energy. Many tend toward the couch potato side of the scale. In general the breed makes fabulous family pets.

Signed, former volunteer with beagle rescue

Edited January 15, 2020 by Pawz4me

[Pen]

3 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

not a beagle - too high energy.

 

Irish Setters are also high energy. 

But neither when well bred and properly socialized tend to be aggressive with kids or other dogs IME. 

 

[DesertBlossom]

33 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

and even then, running the risk it only takes a second for an uncontrolled dog to run down the street and injure someone.

my dh was riding his bike on a main street - and someone's uncontrolled pitbull ran him down and knocked him into the street - fortunately there were no cars coming.  but there are times of day, it's nearly solid cars.  there was someone out there who gave all appearances of being the owner - and denied it.  police were called, guy and dog disappeared.

eta: - the dog was on a side street, it left the side street to knock him down.

I have a friend who was running down her street when 2 pitbulls attacked her. They wouldn't stop and a passerby let her jump in their car to get away from the dogs. A guy showed up, claimed the dogs belonged to his neighbor and left with the dogs. Friend went to the hospital,  but by the time the guy was tracked down (who was indeed the owner) the dogs were gone. His neighbor's security cameras showed the dogs getting out, going back in, and the owner scrubbing all evidence of the dogs from his backyard. The police wouldn't do anything. 

[Pen]

4 minutes ago, DesertBlossom said:

He was the one who brought up possibly rehoming it. I told him I wouldn't blame him at all if he did. When I asked about it, he sounded like he was still considering it but the kids love it. The dog would rarely be at my house, but we are together on campouts and other gatherings. 

 

It will be far better to rehome  when it’s young, has not done anything terrible.  

It might work out, but also very likely may not.  The longer they have it the more wrenching it will be if it has to be rehomed or worse. 

I’d say if he’s having a niggling feeling now that maybe he should rehome it, then he certainly should.   

[Pen]

My son was badly bitten by neighbors’  part pit bull as he rode his bike past their house and the dog bolted out. 

[gardenmom5]

8 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

It will be far better to rehome  when it’s young, has not done anything terrible.  

It might work out, but also very likely may not.  The longer they have it the more wrenching it will be if it has to be rehomed or worse. 

I’d say if he’s having a niggling feeling now that maybe he should rehome it, then he certainly should.   

YES, this - listen to "the gut"!

[gardenmom5]

17 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

Irish Setters are also high energy. 

But neither when well bred and properly socialized tend to be aggressive with kids or other dogs IME. 

 

buying a dog off craigslist in a parking lot from someone who "doesn't know" the full genetic breed of the dog doesn't spark me as someone willing to do the work to make sure they have a dog that is well bred (or spend the money)  - though I'm sure they'll pay more attention next time - and properly socialized. (regardless of the breed.)

there is a window for socialization - it can be done afterwards, but is more difficult and takes more effort.

I'd recommend they stick with reliable breeds.

Edited January 15, 2020 by gardenmom5

[Pen]

2 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

buying a dog off craigslist in a parking lot from someone who "doesn't know" the full genetic breed of the dog doesn't spark me as someone willing to do the work to make sure they have a dog that is well bred (or spend the money)  - though I'm sure they'll pay more attention next time - and properly socialized. (regardless of the breed.)

 

True enough.  Could be a “learning experience”. 

2 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

there is a window for socialization - it can be done afterwards, but is more difficult and takes more effort.

I'd recommend they stick with reliable breeds.

 

Reliable breed from a rescue, or dog known to need home by someone reliable like veterinarian, or carefully chosen from a shelter might be a better ways to start. 

The parking lot beginning is pretty sketchy right off the bat. 

[EKS]

I don't know a whole lot about this, but I have had two Pyrs, and there is no way I'd want a mix between a fighting breed and a guarding breed.  

[DesertBlossom]

33 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

buying a dog off craigslist in a parking lot from someone who "doesn't know" the full genetic breed of the dog doesn't spark me as someone willing to do the work to make sure they have a dog that is well bred (or spend the money)  - though I'm sure they'll pay more attention next time - and properly socialized. (regardless of the breed.)

there is a window for socialization - it can be done afterwards, but is more difficult and takes more effort.

I'd recommend they stick with reliable breeds.

I am sure he won't ever do it again. He said as much. Their last dog was also an internet gamble, but he was such a fantastic family dog. I think he has realized that rolling those dice isn't worth it 

Edited January 15, 2020 by DesertBlossom

[Guest]

Nope. I don’t want any pit bull/pit mixed dog ever, full stop. People can talk all they want about all the sweet pits they know/have had but IMNSHO, I think it should cease to be a breed because they were bred for nefarious purposes and there’s no guarantee that breeding won’t come through. Many people and children have been maimed or killed by “sweet” pit bulls. I have a beautiful friend with a scarred face where her boyfriend’s pit bull jumped in her face unprovoked. 

All pits and pit mixes are a hard no for me. 

[gardenmom5]

 my first introduction to a pit bull (i'd heard of them - but didn't know them) was buying something from someone off craigslist.  it was her boyfriend's dog. first she made me go around to the back- (to the daylight basement) - then she had me go to the front and come in upstairs.  the dog was very interested in what I was doing.  seemed fine, but the girl started getting really nervous by how much attention he was paying to me, and promptly took the dog and shut it up in a bedroom.

with what I know now, I would have had her shut up him before I ever entered the house - or left. not worth the risk.

 

[ktgrok]

On 1/15/2020 at 5:39 PM, Quill said:

Nope. I don’t want any pit bull/pit mixed dog ever, full stop. People can talk all they want about all the sweet pits they know/have had but IMNSHO, I think it should cease to be a breed because they were bred for nefarious purposes and there’s no guarantee that breeding won’t come through. Many people and children have been maimed or killed by “sweet” pit bulls. I have a beautiful friend with a scarred face where her boyfriend’s pit bull jumped in her face unprovoked. 

All pits and pit mixes are a hard no for me. 

Everyone gets to have an opinion, but I do want to clear up that the breed was not bred to attack people - it was bred to fight other dogs. And that during dog fights humans are in the ring, need to be able to disentangle the dogs, etc without being bit. The dogs were bred with a specific lack of aggression to humans because of that. 

That said, in much more recent times they have become a dog of choice for bad people who ARE breeding dogs to be aggressive to humans - think junk yard dogs and drug dealers. Those people used to get shepherds, then dobermans and rottweilers, and now the "in" thing in some of those circles is pit bulls. They breed them with no thought to good temperament, and treat them badly. This is where we are getting such horrid dogs from (and becuase these people don't take great care of them these are the ones that end up escaping and ending up in shelters much of the time, depending on where you are). 

And of course, they are a very powerful dog, with very high pain tolerance so harder to stop when they do attack. 

But I did want to clear up that the history of dog fighting is not the problem when it comes to the issues with human aggression - they are very different things. The human aggression we are seeing is much more tied to the crappy stuff happening now. 

(that said, having worked with so many of them over the years in veterinary clinics, they are one of my absolute favorite breeds of dogs and a good one is about as perfect a dog as you could ever have. Of course, the ones that have owners that bring them into the nice suburban vet clinic are not the ones being chained up by drug dealers, who are intent on ruining the breed the way so many other "tough" breeds have been ruined)

So I don't blame people who dislike the breed, while at the same time really really liking the breed. 

 

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

Everyone gets to have an opinion, but I do want to clear up that the breed was not bred to attack people - it was bred to fight other dogs. And that during dog fights humans are in the ring, need to be able to disentangle the dogs, etc without being bit. The dogs were bred with a specific lack of aggression to humans because of that. 

That said, in much more recent times they have become a dog of choice for bad people who ARE breeding dogs to be aggressive to humans - think junk yard dogs and drug dealers. Those people used to get shepherds, then dobermans and rottweilers, and now the "in" thing in some of those circles is pit bulls. They breed them with no thought to good temperament, and treat them badly. This is where we are getting such horrid dogs from (and becuase these people don't take great care of them these are the ones that end up escaping and ending up in shelters much of the time, depending on where you are). 

And of course, they are a very powerful dog, with very high pain tolerance so harder to stop when they do attack. 

But I did want to clear up that the history of dog fighting is not the problem when it comes to the issues with human aggression - they are very different things. The human aggression we are seeing is much more tied to the crappy stuff happening now. 

(that said, having worked with so many of them over the years in veterinary clinics, they are one of my absolute favorite breeds of dogs and a good one is about as perfect a dog as you could ever have. Of course, the ones that have owners that bring them into the nice suburban vet clinic are not the ones being chained up by drug dealers, who are intent on ruining the breed the way so many other "tough" breeds have been ruined)

So I don't blame people who dislike the breed, while at the same time really really liking the breed. 

 

Respectfully, as to the first point, yes, I know they were bred to attack other dogs and not humans. However, children playing with a dog or otherwise near their faces could very conceivably “trigger” the breed instinct because a five-year-old playing on the floor has more in common with another dog than with human adults. Not to mention cats or other dogs. I don’t want my dog to kill my cat or my niece’s Maltese any more than I want them to threaten children.

I have seen sheepdogs try to “herd” toddlers - small children bring out the instinctive behavior because they resemble sheep more than adult humans. I absolutely would not own a dog that *could* think a child is their target for fighting. 

As to your second point, you are certainly sadly correct about that, but that is exactly why I would not want a pit mix. The un neutered pit bulls who sire pups because they slipped out of the yard are highly likely to be owned by people with nefarious reasons for having a Pit. The shelters here are overly represented by pit mixes and hound mixes - there’s virtually nothing else. I never see, say, a Golden mix or a Collie mix. Because people who have those breeds nearly always alter them unless they are breeding stock. 

This is also why I won’t get a previously-owned German Shepherd, even though I love the breed and had a wonderful Shepherd for 12 years. 

[SereneHome]

So many people say that it's all about how you raise and train the pup and the breed shouldn't matter

Well, I am not one of those people.  We had a VERY traumatic experience with pure German shepperd puppy last year. Paid a lot of $$ for it and ended up re-homing it.  It's been 8 month (I actually had a thread about it), my son still grieves his puppy but that dog was not right in a head and no training was fixing that.

I love dogs. My husband LOOOOOOOOVES dogs. But our kids come first. And if there was a potential that the dog can be harmful or destructive to people  - it had to go.

Nope, wouldn't keep it

ETA: crap, just realized you didn't want to quote, I am going to try to delete it

Edited January 18, 2020 by SereneHome

[DesertBlossom]

4 hours ago, Quill said:

Respectfully, as to the first point, yes, I know they were bred to attack other dogs and not humans. However, children playing with a dog or otherwise near their faces could very conceivably “trigger” the breed instinct because a five-year-old playing on the floor has more in common with another dog than with human adults. Not to mention cats or other dogs. I don’t want my dog to kill my cat or my niece’s Maltese any more than I want them to threaten children.

I have seen sheepdogs try to “herd” toddlers - small children bring out the instinctive behavior because they resemble sheep more than adult humans. I absolutely would not own a dog that *could* think a child is their target for fighting. 

As to your second point, you are certainly sadly correct about that, but that is exactly why I would not want a pit mix. The un neutered pit bulls who sire pups because they slipped out of the yard are highly likely to be owned by people with nefarious reasons for having a Pit. The shelters here are overly represented by pit mixes and hound mixes - there’s virtually nothing else. I never see, say, a Golden mix or a Collie mix. Because people who have those breeds nearly always alter them unless they are breeding stock. 

This is also why I won’t get a previously-owned German Shepherd, even though I love the breed and had a wonderful Shepherd for 12 years. 

And this is another thing that bothers me. The owners lied about it being a pit bull mix which makes me think the pit bull parent was NOT a fantastic family dog with great genetics. I mean, why lie about it? Unless they are just harder to sell in general. 

Buyer still has the pup. But if my opinion is ever asked again, I won't hesitate to say that it's going to make me incredibly nervous in the coming years to have this dog at family events where toddlers and kids and other dogs are in attendance. 

[Selkie]

9 minutes ago, DesertBlossom said:

And this is another thing that bothers me. The owners lied about it being a pit bull mix which makes me think the pit bull parent was NOT a fantastic family dog with great genetics. I mean, why lie about it? Unless they are just harder to sell in general. 

Most likely explanation is they lied because they knew a French mastiff mix would be more sought after than a pit mix. 

[gardenmom5]

9 hours ago, Quill said:

Respectfully, as to the first point, yes, I know they were bred to attack other dogs and not humans. However, children playing with a dog or otherwise near their faces could very conceivably “trigger” the breed instinct because a five-year-old playing on the floor has more in common with another dog than with human adults. Not to mention cats or other dogs. I don’t want my dog to kill my cat or my niece’s Maltese any more than I want them to threaten children.

I have seen sheepdogs try to “herd” toddlers - small children bring out the instinctive behavior because they resemble sheep more than adult humans. I absolutely would not own a dog that *could* think a child is their target for fighting. 

 

or grandma, who's babysitting . . . . one was mauled to death.

 

on a happier note . . . 

dd's minion just bought a border collie for his eight-year old twins.  we were all laughing at how the dog will be herding the children.

[gardenmom5]

4 hours ago, DesertBlossom said:

And this is another thing that bothers me. The owners lied about it being a pit bull mix which makes me think the pit bull parent was NOT a fantastic family dog with great genetics. I mean, why lie about it? Unless they are just harder to sell in general. 

Buyer still has the pup. But if my opinion is ever asked again, I won't hesitate to say that it's going to make me incredibly nervous in the coming years to have this dog at family events where toddlers and kids and other dogs are in attendance. 

we constantly hear how "you need to buy a dog from a rescue".  we looked at our local humane society.  they're either pit/mixes - or chihuahuas. that's about 90% of the dogs they have - no matter when you go.  that should tell people something . . . . . (we also looked at a poodle rescue, and they're all old because they owners either died or went into assisted living/nursing and can't keep them.)