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fairfarmhand

S/o International people views on Americans

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7 minutes ago, wintermom said:

What particular topic is that? You seem to be uptight about this entire thread and ready to take on the world.  Calm down a little. 


Please refrain from telling me how I should feel about or react to the comments in this thread. Thanks.

ETA/: for those who are actually curious, I find it distasteful to stereotype people based on what they look like and how they dress not what they actually do. And demonizing people based on their national leadership is how the US got to the point of banning immigration from a variety of countries. I fail to see the humor in any of it.

Edited by Sneezyone

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14 minutes ago, Melissa in Australia said:

not completely correct. My FIL was German,  from Prussia, He has told me about how bad it was getting in Germany and how practically the whole population of Prussia fled before the Russian  invasions

 

I've got Prussia in my family background too!

My Prussians were religious refugees who settled in SA though, well before WW11.

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48 minutes ago, Michelle Conde said:

 

 

This is the only foreign tourist behavior that really bothers me.  I've had Asian tourists following us to take photos of my kids, trying to get their attention, and stepping around me reaching for them taking more pictures as I am actively stepping between the tourists and my kids asking them to stop.  I could get it if it were just that this was acceptable in their culture so they didn't realize it might be a problem, but trying to sidestep me to keep shooting pictures as I'm asking them to stop, and following us for ten, fifteen minutes through the crowds after we decided to leave the area to get away from them?

Several years ago while visiting a somewhat touristy location, a couple from Beijing sat by as we were sitting down taking a break. Beijing was the only word we communicated, but the man was gushing over one of my boys, gesturing to take a picture with him. I asked DS if he felt uncomfortable and he said no. Maybe he though the attention was fun. But then out of nowhere this man gets touchy, patting on him and he totally patted DS's crotch area. I immediately stood up and left with my kids, wondering if I should call security. I didn't because I wasn't sure it really registered with DS what had just happened and I knew if I made a big deal out of it, the moment would be burned into his memory.  Never again will I let someone get near my kids again. I am still upset my mama bear instincts didn't kick in a few moments earlier.

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27 minutes ago, StellaM said:

 

I made my girls learn about the invention of the stump plough, at which point they rebelled and said 'no more AU history!'

Oops.

 

There's a nice little museum about the development of the combine harvester near-ish by. I found that when dd was too small to remember it. Ha. I'll put that on the list of things to do.

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7 minutes ago, DesertBlossom said:

Several years ago while visiting a somewhat touristy location, a couple from Beijing sat by as we were sitting down taking a break. Beijing was the only word we communicated, but the man was gushing over one of my boys, gesturing to take a picture with him. I asked DS if he felt uncomfortable and he said no. Maybe he though the attention was fun. But then out of nowhere this man gets touchy, patting on him and he totally patted DS's crotch area. I immediately stood up and left with my kids, wondering if I should call security. I didn't because I wasn't sure it really registered with DS what had just happened and I knew if I made a big deal out of it, the moment would be burned into his memory.  Never again will I let someone get near my kids again. I am still upset my mama bear instincts didn't kick in a few moments earlier.


That was our experience too. I assume they found my DDs hairstyle, color and features exotic and wanted to touch it/her and capture it for posterity. They had a hard time taking no for an answer and were often aggressive. I quickly became aggressive right back. DD was 3 and DS was 1. I have a hard time lumping this into the same category as disfavored footwear.

Edited by Sneezyone

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ETA: Here's the map and a brief summary of the American regional "nations."  I assume it's confusing for the international crowd who can't be expected to know this.  Here's a cheat sheet: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-map-11-separate-nations-colin-woodward-yankeedom-new-netherland-the-midlands-tidewater-greater-a8078261.html

For those of you interested in the different cultural nations/regions inside the US and how they came to be, this book is a helpful read: https://www.amazon.com/American-Nations-History-Regional-Cultures/dp/0143122029/ref=sr_1_1?crid=MJOSG9DO0U6Y&keywords=american+nations+colin+woodard&qid=1579408161&sprefix=American+nationas%2Caps%2C183&sr=8-1

Edited by Homeschool Mom in AZ
summary and map added
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1 hour ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I remember some song about the melting pot at school and I always thought the concept was creepy.  What throw everyone in together, subject them to some heat and stirring and they all turn into the same thing?  Weird 

 

Is the video with the recipe book and soup pot any less creepy?  🤣

 

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My (US public school) education covered certain topics in history very thoroughly, while glossing over or never mentioning all the rest.  I have learned so much as an adult and while teaching my kids.  I'd of course heard references to and excerpt of Churchill's "we shall fight on the beaches" speech, but never knew before setting out to memorize it with the kids last year that the next part was an appeal to my country to come rescue the European Allies.

"Even though large tracts of Europe and many old and famous States have fallen or may fall into the grip of the Gestapo and all the odious apparatus of Nazi rule, we shall not flag or fail. We shall go on to the end. We shall fight in France, we shall fight on the seas and oceans, we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our island, whatever the cost may be. We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender, and if, which I do not for a moment believe, this island or a large part of it were subjugated and starving, then our Empire beyond the seas, armed and guarded by the British Fleet, would carry on the struggle, until, in God's good time, the New World, with all its power and might, steps forth to the rescue and the liberation of the old."

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30 minutes ago, Melissa in Australia said:

not completely correct. My FIL was German,  from Prussia, He has told me about how bad it was getting in Germany and how practically the whole population of Prussia fled before the Russian  invasions

I am not sure how that disputes anything I said.  The U.S. was in the war and was providing significant military aid to Britain and the Soviets.  Remove the U.S. and the threat of a western front, the Italian front, and the North African campaign and the picture in the east develops very differently.

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8 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:


That was our experience too. I assume they found my DDs hairstyle, color and features exotic and wanted to touch it/her and capture it for posterity. They had a hard time taking no for an answer and were often aggressive. I quickly became aggressive right back. DD was 3 and DS was 1. I have a hard time lumping this into the same category as disfavored footwear.

 

I think with us it may have been that we have four stair-step kids with mostly fair hair--several tried to pet my daughter's very straight, blond hair.  We don't get it as much now.  Not sure how much of that is the kids not being as little, or their hair darkening as they age, or how much is me learning to be more assertive when it comes to strangers near my kids.

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24 minutes ago, StellaM said:

I've got Prussia in my family background too!

Me, too! Small world. 🌏

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1 minute ago, Michelle Conde said:

 

I think with us it may have been that we have four stair-step kids with mostly fair hair--several tried to pet my daughter's very straight, blond hair.  We don't get it as much now.  Not sure how much of that is the kids not being as little, or their hair darkening as they age, or how much is me learning to be more assertive when it comes to strangers near my kids.


Probably all of the above. I’m sure small children seem more accessible. I haven’t, in all the years that we’ve traveled and lived OCONUS as a family, had a similar experience since. 

When I was in China tho, there were several people in our party who approached small children in a similar way (no touching) and wanted to chat and take pics. I’m not so sure how the locals reacted since these were stereotypical American teachers and are often presumed to be non-threatening. Also, I don’t speak the language, lol. I found that episode equally distasteful (probably a result of my own experience) but held my tongue. I discovered that I do not enjoy group travel.

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19 minutes ago, KungFuPanda said:

 

Is the video with the recipe book and soup pot any less creepy?  🤣

 

That is incredibly similar!  Like maybe it was an Australianised version of the same thing!  

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2 hours ago, wintermom said:

I'm not "exalting" multiculturalism as something better, I'm pointing out differences in how our countries approach immigration. How much government support is there in the US for international language education, festivals, or similar? Lets see where the money is. I've already stated that the Canadian governments of all levels financially support language and cultural education of immigrants. What does the US government do?

The US does not generally bankroll cultural events of any group, but there are many such events produced by the many communities as well as multi-cultural groups.  There are all sorts of cultural and business organizations, church/religion-run and community schools, etc. which provide pretty comprehensive exposure, mutual support, and a voice for people of various backgrounds.  Where there are concentrations of ethnic people, we have neighborhoods self-designated Polish [etc] Village, Little Italy, Chinatown, etc.

I am not sure why the government would need to educate immigrants about their birth cultures.  For that matter, I don't know why anyone would want the government deciding that kind of message for their children.

I wonder how much of that in Canada was related to the movements in Quebec to ... well, I won't put words in their mouths, and I don't remember it clearly, but from what I understand, Quebec is a powerful force and a bit rebellious against being subjected to central Canadian rule, and some of the governmental differences, such as requiring French translations of everything, is the result of having to work out compromises (which not all Canadians agree with).

The other part is probably because the US generally prefers a "smaller government" and more local and individual control over most details.

In terms of foreign languages, a couple things.  First, in areas with a lot of kids who speak a given foreign language at home, schools are available that teach in those languages as well as in English.  That said, most immigrants and bilingual families are more concerned that their child learn English [in school] in order to keep their career options open etc.  Second, foreign language is a normal funded part of public education - different systems offer different amounts of education, but afaik every public high school offers at least a couple languages other than English - and these would include the language(s) most commonly spoken in the region, as well as other(s).  Though I don't know how much value that adds as far as studying the language one already speaks at home. 

For a few groups, most notably Hispanics, there are special rules and government-funded programs intended to prevent uneven / discriminatory educational outcomes.

Now, politicians like to get involved in the various movements / activities.  They have their initiatives etc.  They have some funding behind these initiatives.  But these are not what the communities rely on to celebrate, preserve, and pass on culture.

Edited by SKL

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1 hour ago, StellaM said:

 

Who knows? It's difficult to discount the role of the Russians on the European front(s).

If we just consider the Pacific, I'd say they were more decisive.

 

Yes I’ve always had the impression that the Russians a significant factor.  I am sure it would have been longer without us involvement.

Also would the us have got involved if they weren’t attacked?   

 

 

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You guys are cracking me up with the melting pot references -- the indoctrination of US children apparently spread to world citizens too!  

 

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1 hour ago, wintermom said:

I'm not "exalting" multiculturalism as something better, I'm pointing out differences in how our countries approach immigration. How much government support is there in the US for international language education, festivals, or similar? Lets see where the money is. I've already stated that the Canadian governments of all levels financially support language and cultural education of immigrants. What does the US government do?

We have loads of international festivals.  Our district's middle schools have one every year.  I imagine a lot of the community and city festivals are self-supporting.  Schools have foreign language classes and specialized English classes for speakers of other languages (ESOL). My county high schools teach several levels of Chinese, French, German, Italian, Latin, Russian, Spanish, and Sign Language.  That's all funded through the school system.  The military has language schools that come from the military budget. Local libraries receive federal grant money to provide basic adult and language acquisition training for immigrants.  These are just the things I know about without research and a lot of levels of funding, but it's regional.  Some places offer more and some less. It's not nationalized.

 

36 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:


That was our experience too. I assume they found my DDs hairstyle, color and features exotic and wanted to touch it/her and capture it for posterity. They had a hard time taking no for an answer and were often aggressive. I quickly became aggressive right back. DD was 3 and DS was 1. I have a hard time lumping this into the same category as disfavored footwear.

I had this experience as an adult.  It was my own fault for walking around Seoul and minding my own business. 

 

What I REALLY want to know is why Canada seems to largely get a pass on everything when not one of them has explained WTH "Letterkenney" is all about.  It's really weird and they should take some responsibility for it.

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46 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

That is incredibly similar!  Like maybe it was an Australianised version of the same thing!  

Did you have it for grammar, science, and government too? 

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46 minutes ago, SKL said:

The US does not generally bankroll cultural events of any group, but there are many such events produced by the many communities as well as multi-cultural groups.  There are all sorts of cultural and business organizations, church/religion-run and community schools, etc. which provide pretty comprehensive exposure, mutual support, and a voice for people of various backgrounds.

I am not sure why the government would need to educate immigrants about their birth cultures.  For that matter, I don't know why anyone would want the government deciding that kind of message for their children.

I wonder how much of that in Canada was related to the movements in Quebec to ... well, I won't put words in their mouths, and I don't remember it clearly, but from what I understand, Quebec is a powerful force and a bit rebellious against being subjected to central Canadian rule, and some of the governmental differences, such as requiring French translations of everything, is the result of having to work out compromises (which not all Canadians agree with).

The other part is probably because the US generally prefers a "smaller government" and more local and individual control over most details.

In terms of foreign languages, a couple things.  First, in areas with a lot of kids who speak a given foreign language at home, schools are available that teach in those languages as well as in English.  That said, most immigrants and bilingual families are more concerned that their child learn English [in school] in order to keep their career options open etc.  Second, foreign language is a normal funded part of public education - different systems offer different amounts of education, but afaik every public high school offers at least a couple languages other than English - and these would include the language(s) most commonly spoken in the region, as well as other(s).  Though I don't know how much value that adds as far as studying the language one already speaks at home. 

For a few groups, most notably Hispanics, there are special rules and government-funded programs intended to prevent uneven / discriminatory educational outcomes.

Now, politicians like to get involved in the various movements / activities.  They have their initiatives etc.  They have some funding behind these initiatives.  But these are not what the communities rely on to celebrate, preserve, and pass on culture.

Every high school in the US does not offer instruction in at least a couple of languages other than English. A good chunk don’t even offer one language other than English and most offer only Spanish. Foreign language instruction is not a strength in the US public education system, and regular instruction, outside of immersion programs, generally starts much too late to achieve a useful level of fluency.

https://www.americancouncils.org/sites/default/files/FLE-report-June17.pdf

In terms of studying a language already spoken at home, depending on the level of parental education and other factors, a child may get a very high amount of exposure to vocabulary, grammar, reading, and writing or very little. Some children or teens who can speak it have little to no experience reading or writing it and no formal grammar instruction.

And relating to what US high schools offer, did you know that only about 60% of US high schools offer even one physics class? I think sometimes people are unaware of how limited the educational opportunities are in some US public schools outside of their own former or current experience.

Edited by Frances
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4 minutes ago, KungFuPanda said:

Did you have it for grammar, science, and government too? 

No definitely not

i don’t think it was the schoolhouse rock version just wondering if someone plagiarised the song if that makes sense?  Or maybe it’s just the concept is inherently creepy 

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22 minutes ago, Frances said:

Every high school in the US does not offer instruction in at least a couple of languages other than English. A good chunk don’t even offer one language other than English and most offer only Spanish. Foreign language instruction is not a strength in the US public education system, and regular instruction, outside of immersion programs, generally starts much too late to achieve a useful level of fluency.

https://www.americancouncils.org/sites/default/files/FLE-report-June17.pdf

In terms of studying a language already spoken at home, depending on the level of parental education and other factors, a child may get a very high amount of exposure to vocabulary, grammar, reading, and writing or very little. Some children or teens who can speak it have little to no experience reading or writing it and no formal grammar instruction.

And relating to what US high schools offer, did you know that only about 60% of US high schools offer even one physics class? I think sometimes people are unaware of how limited the educational opportunities are in some US public schools outside of their own former or current experience.


There are 18-19 states (less than half) that don’t mandate some FL instruction and even within those states many HS offer a language b/c the decision is relegated to the district. I make no claims about quality but if the supposition is that other countries offer language to all or the majority of their students without cost, I have no way to assess that based on this. The majority of US high school students have access to at least one language. I do know that we are constantly encouraged, as VIPKID teachers, to donate to China’s rural schools initiative b/c their poor, rural kids do not have access to English instruction either. I can’t imagine Hindu, Tagalog or German being more accessible.

Edited by Sneezyone

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9 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

No definitely not

i don’t think it was the schoolhouse rock version just wondering if someone plagiarised the song if that makes sense?  Or maybe it’s just the concept is inherently creepy 

You need to just eat your delicious people soup and stop being so delicate.  

A whole generation of Americans can't think about conjunctions without singing the Conjunction Junction song.  School House Rock did a number on us. Don't get me started on the No More Kings song.  

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18 minutes ago, Frances said:

Every high school in the US does not offer instruction in at least a couple of languages other than English. A good chunk don’t even offer one language other than English and most offer only Spanish. Foreign language instruction is not a strength in the US.

https://www.americancouncils.org/sites/default/files/FLE-report-June17.pdf

In terms of studying a language already spoken at home, depending on the level of parental education and other factors, a child may get a very high amount of exposure to vocabulary, grammar, reading, and writing or very little. Some children or teens who can speak it have little to no experience reading or writing it and no formal grammar instruction.

And relating to what US high schools offer, did you know that only about 60% of US high schools offer even one physics class? I think sometimes people are unaware of how limited the educational opportunities are in some US schools outside of their own former or current experience.

Not sure I am understanding the report, but I did see one sentence that says the vast majority of reporting schools offered year round Less Commonly Taught Languages (which I would assume is over and above the usual French and Spanish offerings).

That said, I probably should have considered that there are schools that wouldn't offer foreign languages based on what they were designed for.  For example, a school for kids in diversion programs, schools for kids with severe special needs, and perhaps many vocational schools might not have a foreign language program.  But in general it is a pretty common ingredient in public high school education.

Some kids certainly choose not to enroll in it, but it is there for most US kids.  Especially now with more online resources etc.

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1 hour ago, Homeschool Mom in AZ said:

ETA: Here's the map and a brief summary of the American regional "nations."  I assume it's confusing for the international crowd who can't be expected to know this.  Here's a cheat sheet: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-map-11-separate-nations-colin-woodward-yankeedom-new-netherland-the-midlands-tidewater-greater-a8078261.html

For those of you interested in the different cultural nations/regions inside the US and how they came to be, this book is a helpful read: https://www.amazon.com/American-Nations-History-Regional-Cultures/dp/0143122029/ref=sr_1_1?crid=MJOSG9DO0U6Y&keywords=american+nations+colin+woodard&qid=1579408161&sprefix=American+nationas%2Caps%2C183&sr=8-1

Thank you for posting this.  I knew there were different cultural regions, but this really explains it well.

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1 hour ago, SKL said:

The US does not generally bankroll cultural events of any group, but there are many such events produced by the many communities as well as multi-cultural groups.  There are all sorts of cultural and business organizations, church/religion-run and community schools, etc. which provide pretty comprehensive exposure, mutual support, and a voice for people of various backgrounds.  Where there are concentrations of ethnic people, we have neighborhoods self-designated Polish [etc] Village, Little Italy, Chinatown, etc.

I am not sure why the government would need to educate immigrants about their birth cultures.  For that matter, I don't know why anyone would want the government deciding that kind of message for their children.

I wonder how much of that in Canada was related to the movements in Quebec to ... well, I won't put words in their mouths, and I don't remember it clearly, but from what I understand, Quebec is a powerful force and a bit rebellious against being subjected to central Canadian rule, and some of the governmental differences, such as requiring French translations of everything, is the result of having to work out compromises (which not all Canadians agree with).

The other part is probably because the US generally prefers a "smaller government" and more local and individual control over most details.

In terms of foreign languages, a couple things.  First, in areas with a lot of kids who speak a given foreign language at home, schools are available that teach in those languages as well as in English.  That said, most immigrants and bilingual families are more concerned that their child learn English [in school] in order to keep their career options open etc.  Second, foreign language is a normal funded part of public education - different systems offer different amounts of education, but afaik every public high school offers at least a couple languages other than English - and these would include the language(s) most commonly spoken in the region, as well as other(s).  Though I don't know how much value that adds as far as studying the language one already speaks at home. 

For a few groups, most notably Hispanics, there are special rules and government-funded programs intended to prevent uneven / discriminatory educational outcomes.

Now, politicians like to get involved in the various movements / activities.  They have their initiatives etc.  They have some funding behind these initiatives.  But these are not what the communities rely on to celebrate, preserve, and pass on culture.

 

I bolded what I think is another huge cultural difference. People in the U.S. wouldn't think most of that is the job of the government at all, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. 

For a different point, I'm not sure I've ever heard of a regular high school that didn't have at least one foreign language. The high school here has two foreign languages and has only 800ish students. The "big" city does have immersion schools, as well. Where I grew up, foreign language offerings now heavily depend upon the student population. Some schools have Spanish and Vietnamese. Some offer only Spanish. Some offer Spanish and French. A smattering still have German, and a growing number offer Mandarin. My grandpa learned English when he started school because only Finnish was spoken at home. In his northern Wisconsin town, that was common, though, (not only with Finnish) and almost of the kids didn't learn English until they started school.

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31 minutes ago, SKL said:

Not sure I am understanding the report, but I did see one sentence that says the vast majority of reporting schools offered year round Less Commonly Taught Languages (which I would assume is over and above the usual French and Spanish offerings).

That said, I probably should have considered that there are schools that wouldn't offer foreign languages based on what they were designed for.  For example, a school for kids in diversion programs, schools for kids with severe special needs, and perhaps many vocational schools might not have a foreign language program.  But in general it is a pretty common ingredient in public high school education.

Some kids certainly choose not to enroll in it, but it is there for most US kids.  Especially now with more online resources etc.

If you look at table 3, choose any state, google the number of high schools in that state, and compare it to the results in the table, you can see that in some states, a significant chunk of schools offer no foreign language. And from the table, you can see that most offer only Spanish. For example, Arizona has over 1,000 high schools with over 900 public ones, but only 261 that offer a foreign language. Spanish is  taught at more than 100 of those. 

My high school offered only two years of Spanish. And because most college bound students took it freshman and sophomore year, everyone  I knew had to start over at the beginning in college. I’m not sure they offer any foreign language at all now, as the enrollment has decreased by about 40%. And there are many much smaller high schools in my home state and there is no foreign language requirement for high school graduation.

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7 minutes ago, kdsuomi said:

 

I bolded what I think is another huge cultural difference. People in the U.S. wouldn't think most of that is the job of the government at all, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. 

For a different point, I'm not sure I've ever heard of a regular high school that didn't have at least one foreign language. The high school here has two foreign languages and has only 800ish students. The "big" city does have immersion schools, as well. Where I grew up, foreign language offerings now heavily depend upon the student population. Some schools have Spanish and Vietnamese. Some offer only Spanish. Some offer Spanish and French. A smattering still have German, and a growing number offer Mandarin. My grandpa learned English when he started school because only Finnish was spoken at home. In his northern Wisconsin town, that was common, though, (not only with Finnish) and almost of the kids didn't learn English until they started school.

Only 800?!? That is way larger than the average high school size in the US (520). My high school had fewer than 250 and now is down to almost half that size. And many of the students I went to college with went to high schools as small or smaller than mine. I knew several people with fewer than ten in their graduating class. Again, I think this is something many don’t realize is very different across the country. Montana, not my home state, has an average high school size of fewer than 180.

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32 minutes ago, Frances said:

Only 800?!? That is way larger than the average high school size in the US. My high school had fewer than 250 and now is down to almost half that size. And many of the students I went to college with went to high schools as small or smaller than mine. I knew several people with fewer than ten in their graduating class. Again, I think this is something many don’t realize is very different across the country. Montana, not my home state, has an average high school size of fewer than 180.


The average high school in the US is about 800 students with the median being about 200 less. There are many small schools/districts with very small schools. It is largely a local decision both to keep them that small and to forgo more robust course offerings as a result. There are good reasons for this of course, travel times and community cohesion, but small schools are limited schools worldwide. Still, the majority of students attend schools that far exceed 250 students.

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7 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:


The average high school in the US is about 800 students with the median being about 200 less. There are many small schools/districts with very small schools. It is largely a local decision both to keep them that small and forgo more robust course offerings as a result. Still, the majority if students attend schools that far exceed 250 students.

Perhaps the 520 figure I found was for all public schools, not just high schools. At least where I grew up, districts would fight consolidation because a town without at least one school would likely not survive. So I attended grade school locally, but was bussed for middle and high school. With the shrinking of the district, each of the three towns in the district now has one school, so every student is bussed out of town for at least half of their school years.

 

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34 minutes ago, Frances said:

If you look at table 3, choose any state, google the number of high schools in that state, and compare it to the results in the table, you can see that in some states, a significant chunk of schools offer no foreign language. And from the table, you can see that most offer only Spanish. For example, Arizona has over 1,000 high schools with over 900 public ones, but only 261 that offer a foreign language. Spanish is  taught at more than 100 of those. 

My high school offered only two years of Spanish. And because most college bound students took it freshman and sophomore year, everyone  I knew had to start over at the beginning in college. I’m not sure they offer any foreign language at all now, as the enrollment has decreased by about 40%. And there are many much smaller high schools in my home state and there is no foreign language requirement for high school graduation.

The study was based on a survey which not all schools responded to.  Also it is possible the difference is due to specialized schools such as 2-year vocational ones not offering a language.

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Most people in the US aren't going to use a 2nd language, except possibly Spanish.  I took 5 years of French in school and have never used it in my adult life.  I wish I'd studied Spanish, because I'd actually have a chance to use it here in Texas.  

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17 minutes ago, Frances said:

Perhaps the 520 figure I found was for all public schools, not just high schools. At least where I grew up, districts would fight consolidation because a town without at least one school would likely not survive. So I attended grade school locally, but was bussed for middle and high school. With the shrinking of the district, each of the three towns in the district now has one school, so every student is bussed out of town for at least half of their school years.

 


Probably. Elementary schools are a lot smaller and can skew the numbers. For sure, losing a school can be devastating for small towns. It’s also very limiting for students when there’s a lack of critical mass for different classes. This is what hyper-local control gets you tho. Having a statewide language mandate might just hasten the demise. Pick your poison.

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Wow, I went to a school with 800-ish students and the local high school my kids are districted for has over 2800 this school year! I know some schools are small but I’ve never personally seen a public one outside of rural Alaska that is under 200 kids.

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My public high school was rural and it had about 800 kids.  Many were bused in from nearby villages and townships.  The school offered Spanish and French.  It also offered science through physics and math through calculus.  This was in the 1980s so before distance learning expanded options.

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Blown away by those numbers I went looking at my states schools.  In the big city the high schools are around 3k kids,  in my mid-size city, they are around 1.5k, even in what I think of as small towns (<5k) they are still pretty big at around 400 kids -- but then I found these little tiny towns in the middle of nowhere with <1k people and  ~16 kids in HS.   I don't doubt a tiny HS probably doesn't offer too much in the way of foreign language -- because how could they?       

OTOH ~30k town I grew up in has stayed same size and ~same # of students and gone from offering  2 languages( Spanish and French) to offering 5 (Spanish, French, German, ASL, and Mandarin).    

 

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the local primary school here has 18 students total

the primary school I sub at has 87 students total

 the high school  that covers years 7 to 12 has just over 100 students total 

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This thread has me thinking about the anime series Hetalia.  It is hilarious (but don’t watch if you will be offended by the stereotypes).

 

Edited by Michelle Conde
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3 hours ago, KungFuPanda said:

 

What I REALLY want to know is why Canada seems to largely get a pass on everything when not one of them has explained WTH "Letterkenney" is all about.  It's really weird and they should take some responsibility for it.

I’ve been reading through this whole thread, searching for something to apologize for! I’ve never seen the show, but I’m sorry it’s weird!

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7 hours ago, Homeschool Mom in AZ said:

ETA: Here's the map and a brief summary of the American regional "nations."  I assume it's confusing for the international crowd who can't be expected to know this.  Here's a cheat sheet: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-map-11-separate-nations-colin-woodward-yankeedom-new-netherland-the-midlands-tidewater-greater-a8078261.html

For those of you interested in the different cultural nations/regions inside the US and how they came to be, this book is a helpful read: https://www.amazon.com/American-Nations-History-Regional-Cultures/dp/0143122029/ref=sr_1_1?crid=MJOSG9DO0U6Y&keywords=american+nations+colin+woodard&qid=1579408161&sprefix=American+nationas%2Caps%2C183&sr=8-1

Colin Woodward should be required reading in all high school US history classes, IMO. All his books are fabulous and incredibly well researched but this one particularly stands out to me. I’ve read it several times and still learn something new every time. I am encouraging DS to read it before he takes APUSH (AP US History) next year.

I'm always excited when you reference him or his work. I truly believe if every North American (includes Canadian and some Mexican history as well) read this book they would gain valuable insight and a deeper understanding of the effects that historical immigration patterns had on our current political and social cultures. 
 

Woodward lives in my general area and I keep hoping to get the chance to see him speak. 

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Interestingly, I was taught far more U.S. history in high school (grades 7-12) almost to the exclusion of any other, including my own country's and the U.K.'s. Which I always found strange, seeing that we were a former British colony. Looking at it in hindsight while reading through this thread, I'm wondering if they were preparing us to go off to university/college with an understanding of a culture and history that some would end up in, thus having a smoother assimilation.  

Foreign language was mandatory throughout high school in my time. It has now become mandatory from the primary level, beginning in grade one.

I wouldn't say I live in the most progressive country either, far from it! Which is why I find myself frequenting this board so often.😉

Edited by Islandgal
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7 hours ago, KungFuPanda said:

You need to just eat your delicious people soup and stop being so delicate.  

A whole generation of Americans can't think about conjunctions without singing the Conjunction Junction song.  School House Rock did a number on us. Don't get me started on the No More Kings song.  

Not to mention ... how else would a student learn the Preamble to the Constitution?

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I’ll third Colin Woodward’s book. (I’ve only read “American Nations” so can’t speak about his other books.) Absolutely fascinating and should definitely be required reading in US, if not North American, schools. 

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7 hours ago, KungFuPanda said:

You need to just eat your delicious people soup and stop being so delicate.  

A whole generation of Americans can't think about conjunctions without singing the Conjunction Junction song.  School House Rock did a number on us. Don't get me started on the No More Kings song.  

 

8 minutes ago, Valley Girl said:

Not to mention ... how else would a student learn the Preamble to the Constitution?


Or how a bill becomes a law?

ETA: Anyone hankering for a hunk of cheese?

 

 

 

P.S. How do you do the quote within a quote thing? I’ve never figured it out. 

Edited by brehon
Wow! What a trip down memory lane.

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Just now, brehon said:

 


Or how a bill becomes a law?

 

 

 

P.S. How do you do the quote within a quote thing? I’ve never figured it out. 

Now this thread has done it. I've got those songs in my head and I. Cannot. Get. Them. Out.

Gonna have to roll with it today, I guess.

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My graduating class was 28 kids. Our school offered both Spanish and German, but both were via satellite. The year after I graduated, they started offering Mandarin and maybe some others through an internet program. I don't know more than that, because I had left by that point.

The not terribly large school my daughter volunteers at has over 20 languages represented in their FOO's.  The school my kids are zoned for have very few. Both are about equidistant from our house, but one is in the city and one is rural.

I'm sure all of the local schools offer foreign language instruction, but I'm not sure how many languages are offered at all of them. We have one bilingual school where classes are taught in English half the day and Spanish half the day. I love that. If my kids had gone to school, I would have tried to get them in there.

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7 hours ago, KungFuPanda said:

You need to just eat your delicious people soup and stop being so delicate.  

A whole generation of Americans can't think about conjunctions without singing the Conjunction Junction song.  School House Rock did a number on us. Don't get me started on the No More Kings song.  

My brother was a 2 time Citizen Bee National finalist (competition for high school students on Civics and US Government) and according to him, whenever there was a question in the written rounds on the preamble, you could tell when anyone got to it because they would start humming. These were the top 2 students from each state, plus a handful from US bases abroad, US Territories, and one from Washington DC. I figured that was a good justification for using songs as a big part of our homeschooling until DD got old enough to fight me on it :). And indeed, I kept hearing Geography Songs in my head every time a place name was mentioned in the world Congress. Sigh....

 

My high school offered French, Spanish, or Latin. Since the highest performing kids were encouraged to take Latin (the better to get high SAT scores) that meant a lot of us left high school with one spoken language. There are a few bilingual magnet schools in my area (and I rather wish I’d had the money to send DD to the triple immersion school where each class had a teacher who spoke only English, one who spoke only Spanish, and one who spoke only Mandarin to the kids. That might have been worth dealing with the school for.), but most schools do not begin foreign language until 8th or 9th grade, and few kids get any level of fluency. It is normal for University level classes to begin from scratch-and end with minimal fluency as well. Efforts for kids who come in speaking a different home language focus on getting them fluent enough in English to join a mainstream class, and while some subjects may be taught in their home language in the meantime, it is a stopgap. 

Immigrant parents who want their child to actually be fluent in their home language send them to German School, Chinese School, Korean School, etc, which are run by community groups for their kids, but if you are outside that community, you will never know such exist, nor be invited to participate. 

I live in Appalachia on the map, although both DH and I come from families with ties to other parts of the country and parents who moved for work reasons, and both of us have beliefs more like those original cultures. Being fluent in  second language, or more, is one of the major reasons why people I know IRL homeschool or after school. 

 

 

Edited by dmmetler
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I was just discussing school size with my sister yesterday. The local public high school has about 700 students per grade. I have a theory that one reason we lean toward such large schools is because competitive sports--football especially--are such a big deal. If you want to field a really strong team you need a large student body to recruit from.

The school offers Chinese, French, and Spanish, Chinese and Spanish at the AP level. Chinese has a beyond AP option for students who attended the be local Chinese immersion program beginning in elementary.

Edited by maize

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