shinyhappypeople Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 What do you do for school refusal when the student is already homeschooled? Older DD is recovering from trauma, has a serious mental illness, we're figuring out the med situation, and exhibits impulsive behaviors that make a traditional school setting dangerous for her (she admits that she would definitely do these behaviors if she were in a B&M school). So here we are. Stuck in homeschool. On the bright side: the latest addition to her medication buffet appears to maybe be working (ok, we're ONE day in, but I did notice a difference yesterday so... maybe?). Other bright sides, she does ok at the outsourced class she takes (just one hour a week). She's also still doing very well in ballet at her new studio. It's just the other stuff that's scary. She's 16 and in 11th grade (we give social promotions in our homeschool 😉 ). She has ONE English credit almost finished. She's crashing and burning in pre-algebra, even though she says she understands the lessons (we're using Derek Owens, fwiw). It's all the little tiny video clips she has to watch that gets overwhelming for her. I've offered to have her split up lessons over a few days so she just have go through a few clips, but... no dice. Anyway... any BTDT advice? Or just regular advice? I feel legitimately panicked at the idea of even approaching her about school after what happened last time. But the girl needs a diploma and I won't issue one if she doesn't do the work. I've thought of trying to pull together an unschooling transcript to give her credit for her self-directed learning. That might at least help her "catch up." I think being so far behind schedule definitely stresses her out. Anyone know how to do that? She hates reading so it's not like I can just categorize books she's read into neat subjects. I'm up for ideas on how to make binge-watching Jenna Marbles on youtube into a high school course (kidding, mostly). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paige Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 Could you take a medical leave of absence to work on mental health issues? Just take a break, focus on health, whatever school or credits she can earn will be a bonus, and hope to get back to school when she is ready. Pushing through is a bad, bad idea, IME. I know it's hard and people will criticize whatever choice you make, but the most important thing is to have a healthy, live, functional child. Compared to that, school doesn't matter and sometimes we can't focus on both at the same time. Perhaps her therapist could help her make a plan to work on some issues and begin school again in the fall or summer. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lang Syne Boardie Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 37 minutes ago, Paige said: Could you take a medical leave of absence to work on mental health issues? Just take a break, focus on health, whatever school or credits she can earn will be a bonus, and hope to get back to school when she is ready. Pushing through is a bad, bad idea, IME. I know it's hard and people will criticize whatever choice you make, but the most important thing is to have a healthy, live, functional child. Compared to that, school doesn't matter and sometimes we can't focus on both at the same time. Perhaps her therapist could help her make a plan to work on some issues and begin school again in the fall or summer. I agree. If she's 16 and in 11th, you have some margin to deal with the issues and hopefully get back on track for graduation, long before she's 18. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rachel Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 I don’t have any advice, but wish I could give you a big hug. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 Does she have a math disability? At 16 I am thinking that she might be able to test out of pre-algebra. I would use Khan Academy or the Key to Math books to see if there are specific gaps and fill them in. What are her goals after high school? Would working on her GED and then moving on, work best for her? There are community college programs here that get you your GED and an AA degree. What are your goals for a transcript? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prairiewindmomma Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 My .02, based on my friends’ experiences: 1. Look for open rolling admissions cc classes. 2. Look at vocational rehab—here you can start transitional services at 14 3. Don’t freak out. (And get counseling for you(!) to help yourself get through this. You don’t need everything in a tidy box by age 18. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinyhappypeople Posted January 15, 2020 Author Share Posted January 15, 2020 I don't feel like I have a lot of time left. I have 1-1/2 years for over 3 years worth of high school work. She has a history of being dangerously impulsive, so when she's 18 there's a very good chance she'll move out and I do not want her to launch without a diploma. She may have to live with that consequence, but with all my heart I don't want her to having to go through the stigma of being a high school dropout. How's she going to get a job? Support herself? Support her future kids? She has multiple significant learning disabilities so there's that, too. There's so much. On the other hand, she's mentioned that she'd like an extra year to work on high school, and that's great. But when the time comes, she could just as easily move out and be a high school drop out (remember: impulsive). I do have some currency, though - ballet. As long as she's a student, we pay for ballet. It's expensive. She wants to continue dancing after 18, so ... yeah. That may work. Dude, I suddenly feel some hope 🙂 She won't need a transcript for a 4 year college, but I do want her to have one for her own records. I want her to be able to see that yes, she has accomplished academic things that typical learners accomplish. This is important to both of us. She is truly brilliant and creative, but the LDs have her believing the opposite about herself. Things take a long time to get done on a good day. And she usually only has the mental stamina to work on ONE subject a day (when she's willing to work at all). I am totally open to redefining what a credit means. So, instead of 160 hours a credit can mean covering a specific topic to a certain basic level of mastery. Progeny Press poetry guide is going to be one English credit. Sue me. Watching and discussing ballets, good movies, plays, etc. will be another English credit (Visual Storytelling - my favorite course title to date). Should we ever finish her grammar program, that, combined with a fair amount of already completed work, will be 9th grade English. (That'll be her most legit English credit). Her counselors (plural) are sweet but don't know how to help. One wants me to put her in public high school. Um... no, ma'am. Not if that means she'll engage in risky, self-destructive behaviors. So, she's not a ton of help. More than getting her schoolwork in order, her dad and I feel the pressure of having 1-1/2 years to teach her - in partnership with her counselors - how to cope with life in healthy ways. Putting her in an environment that feeds her worst impulses isn't helpful. It's like telling an alcoholic to go ahead and get that job at a bar. I like her counselor but she doesn't have kids and sometimes it shows. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prairiewindmomma Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 What are HER plans and goals? What does she want to do as an adult? I completely understand the big bundle of fears that we walk around with, and all of things we want to give them to help protect them from those fears....but we can’t make our kids want the same things we want. She is of an age where you might give some serious thought to what SHE wants. So, if she is of an age where she wants to have her own small business, I would make a business math class and teach her quickbooks and taxes. And so on.... My experience has been that our kids know it when we do the bare minimums to skim by on a traditional subject and that that hurts the self esteem more and causes them to disengage more. What do you NEED to graduate her? What would she NEED to get further education at some point in her life? I would ditch grammar at this point. Can she read an opinion piece in a news paper and make sense of what is being said? Can she pull out the argument and agree or disagree with it? Can she look at the form used to organize the writing? Particularly with kids with disabilities, teach the thinking skills. Watch CNN10 together. (Contemporary history). Understand what is going on. Why are the parties involved acting the way they are? What motivates them? Does this event affect her personally? Why? I think sometimes we make the mistake of trying to shove content into kids who really would be better served to develop skills. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori D. Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 39 minutes ago, shinyhappypeople said: I don't feel like I have a lot of time left. I have 1-1/2 years for over 3 years worth of high school work. She has a history of being dangerously impulsive, so when she's 18 there's a very good chance she'll move out and I do not want her to launch without a diploma... She won't need a transcript for a 4 year college, but I do want her to have one for her own records. I want her to be able to see that yes, she has accomplished academic things that typical learners accomplish. This is important to both of us. She is truly brilliant and creative, but the LDs have her believing the opposite about herself... I am so sorry. What a difficult situation you've all been forced into. Since you will be going with a home-awarded diploma, it is up to YOU to determine the requirements for awarding the diploma. So that means you do not have to go with a more traditional set of credits, or match the public high school's credits. It might be helpful for keeping future doors open if you can at least get through the basic Math, Reading, Writing that will make community college a possibility. You might also look in to whether or not the community college has a program of FREE or reduced tuition classes in the vocational fields for current high school students. She might be able to plug in to a program of interest -- something like massage therapy that would compliment her ballet (and probably guarantee her a client base, lol), and give her a certificate that she would be able to have something that pays more than entry-level wages. Since you are running short on time and realize that it's not going to work to do a traditional set of credits, in addition to those courses that listed that are feeding her creativity and sense of accomplishment, you'll want make sure her foundational skills for real life are solid: Math: - up through Pre-Algebra -- especially solid understanding of fractions, decimals, and percents (real world math concepts) - a Consumer Math program (to practice real-life math skills/needs) - possibly a basic bookkeeping program or a business math program Writing: - solid complete sentences - solid complete paragraphs - understands how to proof-edit - real life writing applications: resume, cover letter, business letters such as: letter of request, letter of recommendation, letter of thanks, letter of complaint, etc.) Computer: - basic keyboarding - creating and using files in different software programs - online safety/security - create a power point presentation Consumer Science: - Personal Finance program - Health topics (nutrition, physical fitness, mental health) - Shopping, Cooking, Cleaning, Basic Auto Maintenance, Basic Home Maintenance -- or at least basic tool use - how to read a map; orientation of streets in your city and key streets/intersections; which side of the street odd or even addresses are on (makes finding addresses a LOT easier!) For ideas of real life topics you might want to touch on, flip through something like Christine Fields' Life Skills for Kids:• taking responsibility (attitude, competence, perseverance, consequences) • people skills (manners/etiquette, communication skills, conflict resolution, relationships) • home skills (shopping, cooking, laundry, cleaning) • life navigation (managing personal info, transportation, emergencies, computer safety) • time and space management/organizational skills • basic home and auto maintenance/repair • money management (earning, saving, giving; banking; credit cards, loans; investing) • health/personal grooming habits • mental health/habits; learning style • spiritual habits (worldview, beliefs, worship, prayer, service, church history) • decision making (choices, prioritizing, problem-solving, ethics) • fostering creativity (pursue passions, develop hobbies, exposure to the arts) • remembering to celebrate (thankful attitude, make memories and traditions) 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 I've seen this unfold in various ways in a few families. I just want to affirm that it really sounds like you're doing what you need to do, especially around being gentle and generous with credits. Sometimes, taking a break to focus on getting healthy in the right approach... but in this case, it sounds like that would not help. I agree with you that you don't have a ton of time left. In the cases that I know of, one of the biggest motivators I've seen has actually been to finish early. And one of the things I've seen work best has been the lowest end, Khan Academy, T4L, Power Homeschool, Thinkwell, Outschool short term, just basically lowest common denominator type courses. The barest bare minimum that also takes it a bit off your plate. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinyhappypeople Posted January 16, 2020 Author Share Posted January 16, 2020 9 hours ago, prairiewindmomma said: What are HER plans and goals? What does she want to do as an adult? ... What do you NEED to graduate her? What would she NEED to get further education at some point in her life? ... I think sometimes we make the mistake of trying to shove content into kids who really would be better served to develop skills. She wants to be a tattoo artist. She'll need a diploma and to do an apprenticeship. She may take more art classes at the community college in the future. I can set my own graduation requirements. She wants to have done work similar to what typical teens cover. I'm satisfied if she makes it through pre-algebra, because that's the math she needs. It's not so much wanting to shove content into her as that I believe that a certain level of historical and scientific literacy is really important. She *wants* her classes to feel like school. She doesn't respect informal learning - even though that's where she's learned the most. I might see if I can get her on board with Great Courses or Masterclass to address some of these in a way that feels like school but is still accessible to her (idea rich, but not reading/writing heavy). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori D. Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 48 minutes ago, shinyhappypeople said: She wants to be a tattoo artist. She'll need a diploma and to do an apprenticeship. She may take more art classes at the community college in the future. I can set my own graduation requirements. She wants to have done work similar to what typical teens cover. I'm satisfied if she makes it through pre-algebra, because that's the math she needs. It's not so much wanting to shove content into her as that I believe that a certain level of historical and scientific literacy is really important. She *wants* her classes to feel like school. She doesn't respect informal learning - even though that's where she's learned the most. I might see if I can get her on board with Great Courses or Masterclass to address some of these in a way that feels like school but is still accessible to her (idea rich, but not reading/writing heavy). Some other videos you might check out: - Great Courses: Joy of Science (secular) -- - Crash Course video series (secular; liberal) -- World History; U.S. History; U.S. Government & Politics - Study.com (secular) -- subscription service; self-paced; short videos + quizzes; the videos are roughly 8-minutes long on average - History: Major Events in World History (277 videos) U.S. History 103 and 104 English: Literature You might also watch quality film versions of classic literature to be familiar with characters/plot for cultural allusions/references, and so you can discuss together the themes in the work. For Government/Civics, you might be able to combine DD with the next 1-2 DC down in age and have them all do Teen Pact in your state. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamakelly Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 My daughter is very arty and has loved taking classes at community college. She took mutiple levels of ceramics, 3D design and is currently enrolled in 2D design. It’s been really great for her to have the encouragement of other artists. She’s working harder than ever before, it’s very motivating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 10 hours ago, shinyhappypeople said: She wants to be a tattoo artist. She'll need a diploma and to do an apprenticeship. She may take more art classes at the community college in the future. I can set my own graduation requirements. She wants to have done work similar to what typical teens cover. I'm satisfied if she makes it through pre-algebra, because that's the math she needs. Quick observations. She could be 10th by age, so I would change that intended graduation date immediately. Most kids, even very late bloomers with ADHD and EF issues, can get through Algebra 1. Her road ahead will be easier if she gets through algebra 1. Since she hasn't figured out life yet (and won't pass the tests to do CC possibly without doing their faster paced remedial courses), she needs another year or two. In the ps she would keep an IEP till like 20/21. There is no rush. Is she refusing to do ANYTHING or is she refusing to do what you want? On January 14, 2020 at 11:11 AM, shinyhappypeople said: I think being so far behind schedule definitely stresses her out. Yes, so grade adjust her back and stop the crazy train. She's 10th grade by age. There is no need for her to be 11th or 12th right now. Everyone needs to take a deep breath. On January 14, 2020 at 11:11 AM, shinyhappypeople said: She hates reading So remind me how CC is supposed to solve that? Has this child had psych evals? It sounds like you're saying she has ADHD, but what else is going on? Have you thought about a good SLP eval with someone who specializes in literacy? If you find such an SLP (they exist, might have to search), they could run language test, narrative language, pragmatics, problem solving, as well as the usually CTOPP and things for decoding. You'd like to know whether the reading issue is personality (not), dyslexia, a language issue, an attention issue, what. And even if she's not keen on psychs, she might be cool with an SLP. And if there are some pragmatics, narrative language, problem solving, or EF issues (yes, all likely), that person might have the tests to show that. Sometimes SLP evals (with the right person) are more practical than psych. 10 hours ago, shinyhappypeople said: She wants to be a tattoo artist. This seems like a good plan. Like it's something, something she has identified she could do. It sounds like you've identified the skills needed to go into that. I mean, all I know is what's on tv, but I would merge those skill needs into your high school plan. You have 2 1/2 more years if you grade adjust like I'm suggesting. She has *probably* done enough in the last year and a half to give you some credits you can count. Then just start going forward. -health--Work on INTEROCEPTION and call it health. Throw in some obvious things like doctor visits or books on s*xual health, nutrition, stress, anger/emotions, etc. But Interoception work here might be a missing piece. Give her credit for the things you're doing for mental health. -art--Normal to need art credit, and she has an art interest. -career exploration--Normal to give credit for this. She can shadow, do career testing, do the personality testing in Do What You Are, etc. -math--You already got this nailed. Your goal is to get through algebra 1. I mean, sure, get a hold of the entrance test for CC and see if she's ready, but with difficulty in both reading and math, doesn't seem like it. You might look at MUS, as Demme is very good at connecting with impulsive, ADHD brains. One of the good things it did for my dd was to teach her to self-monitor and review for comprehension. So even if the *math* doesn't seem to be going well, the *effort* might get her useful skills. -foreign language--This is an interesting question, because it's an easy credit if no language disability and a challenge if there's some unidentified language disability. Do people still use the Annenberg soap opera series for language? Might appeal to her. https://www.learner.org/series/destinos-an-introduction-to-spanish/ Fwiw, even if she has a language disability or finds it hard, I would find a way to fudge her through this. She watches them, she tries, she gets credit. She writes reports about spanish speaking countries or learns about the culture or cooks the food, she gets credit. Kwim? Especially year 1 of a language there's a heavy cultural emphasis. Spanish speaking tatoo artists, top 10 spanish words and designs to put on tatoos. Spanish phrases you want to be able to say to a customer coming in. Chain it back to what she's into, be flexible, get it done. -english--So she doesn't like reading, fine. But assuming no language disability she OUGHT to be able to audiobooks. (another good reason to do evals) Does she have anything to work with here, like enjoying non-fiction vs. literature? That actually tells you a lot, btw, what she *does* like. For writing, begin with basic requirements like a response journal or 3 points of argument to debate, just oral argument. shop.scholastic.com › 50-debate-prompts-for-kids-978054517902750 Debate Prompts for Kids - Scholastic Teacher Store -science-- Best American Science and Nature Writing 2018 (The Best American Series ®) This series has nature/science writing, food writing, crime writing, etc. Given that her reading is not going well, you might read them together (you to her) and discuss. Again, either with a simple response goal or a debate/argument goal. Also consider a video series like https://timberdoodle.com/collections/science/products/biology-101 or https://timberdoodle.com/collections/science/products/chemistry-101 Do not try crazy hard at this, kwim? Watch the videos, do some collections (leaves, etc.), go visit telescopes, take some field trips, maybe do some labs or find a lab class to attend. On January 14, 2020 at 11:11 AM, shinyhappypeople said: She's also still doing very well in ballet at her new studio. Oh this is really interesting! How can you chain from that to get her some credit? My dd spent a year in high school studying ballerina tutus. I kid you not. Apparently there's a lot of controversy with them, like what the layers mean. She made a pinterest board with like 1600 pins and was crazy into it. -watch famous ballets and study the history of them for music credit -watch movies about famous ballerinas (Red Slipper, White Nights, etc.) and get Intro to Movies credit -learn about ballerinas over time and get history credit. 20th century history credit by learning about ballerinas under the Soviet Union -history of tatoos--More history credit. Sounds like a full year there, lol. -philosophy or ethics--She could read about business ethics, tatoo ethics, religious views on tatoos, etc. Basically, take anything she's interested in study or could study via chaining and facilitate it. Look for media, mediums, that work for her, that are not areas of disability. Look for genres in the reading that speak to her strengths. If she has difficulties with social thinking and doesn't engage in narratives, then remediating that is a bigger project, a question you sort out with evals. For the purpose of getting credit, you steer into what IS working, not what isn't. You can do it. Just grade adjust her back and give her more bloom time. Tell her she can pursue her tatoo thing AND have more bloom time, that she doesn't have to rush to leave. And get evals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinyhappypeople Posted January 16, 2020 Author Share Posted January 16, 2020 2 hours ago, PeterPan said: Quick observations. She could be 10th by age, so I would change that intended graduation date immediately. Most kids, even very late bloomers with ADHD and EF issues, can get through Algebra 1. Her road ahead will be easier if she gets through algebra 1. Since she hasn't figured out life yet (and won't pass the tests to do CC possibly without doing their faster paced remedial courses), she needs another year or two. In the ps she would keep an IEP till like 20/21. There is no rush. The rush is that once she's 18 she can move out and I do not want her to do that without already having her diploma. Her history of impulsivity makes this an actual possibility. It's not helpful to approach the problem as if we're talking about a typical kid with typical skills. Is she refusing to do ANYTHING or is she refusing to do what you want? Schoolwork. Has this child had psych evals? It sounds like you're saying she has ADHD, but what else is going on? I've never mentioned ADHD with regard to her. She doesn't have ADHD. She's been eval'd for everything. She has serious mental illnesses, she's working through the fallout from a massive trauma, and - in addition to all that - she has dx'd learning disabilities (SLD - Written Expression and SLP - Math, mild - NOT dyscalculia), slow processing speed (1%) and low working memory (4%). LD eval was several years back. Her math issues are likely related to the processing speed and working memory glitches, because she usually understands concepts okay. Algebra 1 would be great and she may well be able to complete it, especially given extra time. But a solid pre-algebra course will give her the math she needs. And that's what I'm focused on right now. What does she need? How can I provide that given the very real constraints (time, ability, willingness) that we're working with? If I can get her on board with an extra year and believe that she will follow through with the plan, that definitely gives us some breathing room. I'll certainly try for that. But things are unpredictable right now (understatement). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paige Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 Gently....if you think working through educational issues will become more difficult or out of your control once she turns 18, that is nothing compared to the difficulties that will come with helping her navigate her mental health issues when she turns 18. BTDT. My goal would be to put as much focus as necessary into getting her mentally healthy with the hope that when she becomes 18, she will be a reasonable person who cares about her own educational goals and can work with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinyhappypeople Posted January 17, 2020 Author Share Posted January 17, 2020 20 hours ago, Paradox5 said: Get her a GED Prep book, work through it, take the test and say Done, if you feel like she REALLY needs that diploma. But does she? What are her kife goals? Can she get there without one? Yes she needs a diploma. Everyone who is intellectually able needs a HS diploma. The GED book isn't a bad idea, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janeway Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 I will just tell you, I have seen what the public schools require. And if a child is in regular level English, then over a course of four years, they pretty much do not more than what a WTM home schooler might do in one semester of 9th grade. I am unsure what your end game plan is, but she does not need what those planning to head off to a four year college needs. At this point, I would focus on skills..consumer math, homemaking, financial management, health (do not forget health class). And if possible, get her training for a career. Our local public schools offer various career training like beautician and fire fighter and mechanic, etc. Try to help her learn a trade before everything goes to heck in a hen basket. That is the best advice I can offer. Focus on what she will need to survive. And do not repeat to her "once you are 18, you can do what you want." My husband kept doing that and I would cringe every time and beg him to stop. Now, our child with Aspergers has turned 18 yrs old and dropped out of his high school (classical education school, but did go to the public school when I insisted) and keeps telling us he can do what he wants because he is 18 yrs old. Fact is, NO ONE can simply do what they are want just because they are 18 yrs old. The only thing that happens at 18 yrs old is that parents are no longer legally required to support them and they are not legally required to answer to their parents. Oh yeah, on that note, consider getting legal guardianship of her. You need to start soon. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinyhappypeople Posted January 17, 2020 Author Share Posted January 17, 2020 We met with her treatment team (minus the psychiatrist) today. I hadn't thought to pull them into this issue because they've kind of been sketchy about homeschooling. Not outright anti-homeschooling, but... not totally on board, either. Anyway, given the most recent incidents with DD, everyone is on board with her not stepping foot in a public school. So that's good. We're all finally on the same page. So her team will work with her on motivation and providing outside accountability simply by asking DD "How's schoolwork going? What are you working on?" It sounds simplistic (maybe it is) but I actually think it will be helpful for DD. We're also working on a rewards system involving stuff DD really, really wants. So now I'm thinking through which classes we can skip, what we should keep. The time thing is a real thing, as is DD's tendency to feel easily overwhelmed. Today has been a good day. Thank you for the replies so far. It's been really helpful. p.s. If you've happened to pray for us... thank you. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 Can she dance well enough and relate to people well enough that teaching dance (perhaps a variety of types including ballroom) might be possible for her? I know a couple of people who actually did that successfully at local dance teacher level—not the sort of place where retired ballet stars teach. I would focus on mental health first, and second on lifeskills and life skills related learning. Try MUS for math going back to whatever level she needs to be at—even if it’s adding and subtracting and work up. Solid arithmetic will probably help her in life more than algebra. MUS has a “stewardship” math that might be good for her when she is ready. Some states have two or three types of diplomas — a regular one, and then “modified” and or “extended” (usually for IEP students not capable of a regular diploma). It sounds like your daughter may be better off with a “modified” type. They involve taking fewer academic classes than needed for a regular diploma. Maybe your state has that. They are usually not acceptable for college, military, or certain jobs—but it sounds like your daughter would not be able to handle those sorts of situations/jobs anyway. In addition to the possibility of working in dance, I suggest trying to get her into job training or your state work rehabilitation program following work on mental health and getting that stable enough— and along with life skills. You could start looking into what might be available, even if she’s not ready yet. Helping her to get some basic, no diploma required, job (scooping ice cream? Bagging groceries? ) when she’s ready / stable emotionally could also be a big help toward her being okay if she decides to leave at 18. Or even if she doesn’t take off at 18. I’d recommend that a number of credits be in health, culinary arts/cooking, Home economics, etc, — that are legitimate classes offered in schools and would help her with her own well being. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prairiewindmomma Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 4 hours ago, Pen said: Can she dance well enough and relate to people well enough that teaching dance (perhaps a variety of types including ballroom) might be possible for her? I know a couple of people who actually did that successfully at local dance teacher level—not the sort of place where retired ballet stars teach. I would focus on mental health first, and second on lifeskills and life skills related learning. Try MUS for math going back to whatever level she needs to be at—even if it’s adding and subtracting and work up. Solid arithmetic will probably help her in life more than algebra. MUS has a “stewardship” math that might be good for her when she is ready. Some states have two or three types of diplomas — a regular one, and then “modified” and or “extended” (usually for IEP students not capable of a regular diploma). It sounds like your daughter may be better off with a “modified” type. They involve taking fewer academic classes than needed for a regular diploma. Maybe your state has that. They are usually not acceptable for college, military, or certain jobs—but it sounds like your daughter would not be able to handle those sorts of situations/jobs anyway. In addition to the possibility of working in dance, I suggest trying to get her into job training or your state work rehabilitation program following work on mental health and getting that stable enough— and along with life skills. You could start looking into what might be available, even if she’s not ready yet. Helping her to get some basic, no diploma required, job (scooping ice cream? Bagging groceries? ) when she’s ready / stable emotionally could also be a big help toward her being okay if she decides to leave at 18. Or even if she doesn’t take off at 18. I’d recommend that a number of credits be in health, culinary arts/cooking, Home economics, etc, — that are legitimate classes offered in schools and would help her with her own well being. I actually, really vehemently am against the modified diploma idea. We had a 1 hr discussion about it in ds's last IEP meeting, and it was the public school educator's who were vehement ds not go modified. (I wasn't aware of the issue and had no feelings for/against but it was something we had to declare our intentions for for our 8th grader and so they brought up the issue.) In our particular state, @Pen, the modified diploma is an option. It's not something that is available in every state, so you can look to your local laws. The modified diploma is issued by the public school system here. A modified diploma means that you have not met all of the public school requirements for graduation because of significant issues like LDs, mental health, etc.. A modified diploma is not accepted by universities as a high school diploma. (It is accepted by a local community college---but only because they have open rolling admissions and can set other requirements for classroom placement.) A modified diploma allows a student to be eligible for federal financial aid. That's about the only thing that it does. It leaves a stigma but opens doors for funding technical training. Those same doors could be opened by going the vocational rehab route, @Pen, if that's something you're looking at. (as a total aside to this conversation: What's super frustrating about our state is that just one modified class in high school means that you can no longer earn a regular diploma. Ds is actually exiting his last modified class in about a week as we transition over to fully mainstreamed classes with IEP accommodations. It means he is joining 45 other people in a pre-algebra class, and leaving his class of 10. I'm both excited and frustrated.) Because you are homeschooling and can set your own requirements for graduation, do that. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori D. Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 22 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said: ...A modified diploma is not accepted by universities as a high school diploma... Because you are homeschooling and can set your own requirements for graduation, do that. Also, a modified diploma has to do with meeting the public school system's system, and as a homeschooler, that does not apply. As pariewindmomma says here, and as I said further up-thread, as the administrator of her homeschool, ShinyHappyPeople will set her own requirements for awarding the diploma to her DC. complete side note: I was absolutely gob-smacked surprised to learn in a thread a year or two back on the WTM College Board that not all universities require a high school diploma or a GED. While it is much harder to get a job without a high school diploma, it does not necessarily slam the door shut on all future education... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, prairiewindmomma said: I actually, really vehemently am against the modified diploma idea. We had a 1 hr discussion about it in ds's last IEP meeting, and it was the public school educator's who were vehement ds not go modified. (I wasn't aware of the issue and had no feelings for/against but it was something we had to declare our intentions for for our 8th grader and so they brought up the issue.) In our particular state, @Pen, the modified diploma is an option. It's not something that is available in every state, so you can look to your local laws. The modified diploma is issued by the public school system here. A modified diploma means that you have not met all of the public school requirements for graduation because of significant issues like LDs, mental health, etc.. A modified diploma is not accepted by universities as a high school diploma. (It is accepted by a local community college---but only because they have open rolling admissions and can set other requirements for classroom placement.) A modified diploma allows a student to be eligible for federal financial aid. That's about the only thing that it does. It leaves a stigma but opens doors for funding technical training. Those same doors could be opened by going the vocational rehab route, @Pen, if that's something you're looking at. (as a total aside to this conversation: What's super frustrating about our state is that just one modified class in high school means that you can no longer earn a regular diploma. Ds is actually exiting his last modified class in about a week as we transition over to fully mainstreamed classes with IEP accommodations. It means he is joining 45 other people in a pre-algebra class, and leaving his class of 10. I'm both excited and frustrated.) Because you are homeschooling and can set your own requirements for graduation, do that. Where we are one of the biggest, most common stumbling blocks to regular diploma vs modified seems to be that regular requires passing math through Algebra 2. My son already did that in 10th so probably has no need of “modified”. He still has above 3.2 cumulative GPA, but it has taken a hit since he was on honor roll. He does have some LD trouble, but he probably has no LD or anything else bad enough to be eligible for vocational rehab. Though possibly “anxiety” or “trauma” would qualify him. It currently doesn’t have an official diagnosis however. Since he was considering military (in 9th—not so much now) and or because fitting in socially is important to him, he refused any accommodations (aside from some of what his school does for all the kids). @shinyhappypeople— where we are in public schools, an inability to get past prealgebra as of 11th grade would first of all indicate a reason to go back to “10th grade” (instead of social promotion) and might ultimately become a reason to go to “modified” diploma — though not necessarily if summers were used and/ or geometry and algebra get doubled up in one year. My son like @shinyhappypeople daughter has trauma and other stuff, and is having procrastination and rushed / poor work issues currently which could cause a problem with an on time graduation, but I hope not. Not school refusal, he has only a couple of absences—but homework and study severe procrastination. In some cases we’ve dialed back expectations (byebye calculus at least for now, and probably looking toward trade or similar work that won’t require college, though he has been taking the entrance requirement classes for university—luckily already finished minimum foreign language, math, etc before becoming . I’ve been experimenting with approaches like “Nurtured Heart”, “Option Institute,” and similar approaches... And at other moments like this weekend there’s more of a going back to scaffolding his EF—finding the crumpled papers that were due last week (as per a book title) and insisting that he redo his chemistry homework rather than submit shoddy work. In our area a “modified” diploma seems to go a long way toward getting jobs as compared to no diploma. My understanding is a lot of employers like to see strong work ethic showing in a transcript, even if Algebra 2 was beyond someone. (Most 4 year colleges require at least the same basic minimum for entrance as our regular diploma requires, so while technically a homeschooling mom can give whatever grades she wants and whatever diploma she wants, giving a diploma for a homeschool program that doesn’t meet that may not actually help all that much if college is the goal. Especially if there’s a significant disparity between what the diploma and transcript seem to show and performance on SAT or similar tests. At least as best I understand it. Quite a few colleges require standardized testing or some other means to back up mommy grades. ) @prairiewindmomma 45 kids in prealgebra class sounds like such a huge group! For both better and worse my son’s whole 11th grade has fewer than 20 kids! At our school I don’t think the single modified class (or even several) ending ability to earn a regular diploma is true. There are several kids with significant physical disabilities who get modifications, yet seem to be on regular diploma track and competitive college bound. Edited January 20, 2020 by Pen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 On 1/14/2020 at 8:11 AM, shinyhappypeople said: Anyway... any BTDT advice? Or just regular advice? I feel legitimately panicked at the idea of even approaching her about school after what happened last time. But the girl needs a diploma and I won't issue one if she doesn't do the work. I think a tegular diploma would be better than “modified” but mentioned modified above as a possible compromise between regular and none. On 1/14/2020 at 8:11 AM, shinyhappypeople said: I've thought of trying to pull together an unschooling transcript to give her credit for her self-directed learning. That might at least help her "catch up." I think being so far behind schedule definitely stresses her out. Anyone know how to do that? There are examples of unschool transcripts online. On 1/14/2020 at 8:11 AM, shinyhappypeople said: She hates reading so it's not like I can just categorize books she's read into neat subjects. Aside from hating reading, What is she capable of reading? /can/ will she learn from audiobooks? On 1/14/2020 at 8:11 AM, shinyhappypeople said: I'm up for ideas on how to make binge-watching Jenna Marbles on youtube into a high school course (kidding, mostly). Do research on JM? Interview people about JM? Make her own YouTube show about her fascination with JM? And Write a personal essay about what Jenna Marbles means to her? And or a an opinion essay about why JM is popular? A sociology approach? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hs03842 Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 (edited) - Edited June 8, 2020 by JoyKM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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