Something is finally working well!

[PeterPan]

So I guess this is by way of a little update, but it's fun. And then y'all can share what is working well for you.   I had gotten this grammar series Spotlight on Grammar: 6-Book Set  ages ago and despaired of ever being able to go through it with ds. I mean, it literally just sat there LAUGHING at me, because I couldn't get it within reach for him. He'd have meltdowns and just wasn't getting a click. So fast forward a bit, and it's true he's been growing. But also, almost as importantly, he's been spending an insane (inappropriate, obsessive, excessive) amount of time on youtube researching things. And usually what he's researching has videos with guys talking and even subtitles with the text!! So his reading has gotten faster, way faster, and he has even started talking like these dudes in the videos.

Now that could be bad, sounding like guys in youtube videos, but in his case, it's probably for the best and moving up. Considering he wasn't even using original language a few years ago and was still scripting, I'm cool with massive amounts of freshly memorized language that sounds age-appropriate that he is using in his area of interest. It's something.

What I *wasn't* expecting was that this would push his OVERALL language forward. That has blown my mind. Because of course he's taking in language in his area of perseverative interest without any restriction like controlling the lexile, haha. So high motivation, high interest, and language coming from (presumably) 20 year old males. It moved him forward.

So now, I can read him a Bill Peet picture book and he's actually understanding the longer sentences. And I'm trying the Spotlight on Grammar with him again and it's actually clicking. Like really seriously clicking. And we're talking simple things like itch/itches and adding -es to verbs. That is a hard thing for the language disability, because that's morphology, understanding parts of words AND the agreement and what the words mean and reading and and. And he's actually doing it now and acting like it was easy!! Love it.

So I'm a little psyched. He's 11 and he can now do, with instruction, 1st grade grammar, hahahaha. That's about what I'm saying. He was even identifying abstract nouns tonight, which is a pretty good challenge, I think. (concrete vs. abstract) 

So it has been a little stressful or left me feeling like I wasn't doing enough, letting him have this time to pursue these odd things. But he has kind of grown in his own way and now has something to come back and hit therapy materials again. We had hit a lot of walls before, which is why we had paused.

The new SLP for his PROMPT stuff is doing well too. It's going to be a long slog, because we're trying to get that final vocalic R. Sigh. But it's worth it, because it makes him more intelligible. Without that, he sounds really sloppy and loses intelligibility quickly. You wouldn't think that ONE SOUND in just ONE POSITION would make such a difference, but it does.

Well that's all. Fire away. Anything going well with you? Getting back in your groove after the holidays? That's the hard part for me, kicking it in gear.

[Terabith]

Despite her best efforts to not win, my youngest won the science fair and has to go to the City.  She pretty deliberately left her display board pretty undecorated in the hopes that she would lose enough points not to accidentally win, because she hates talking to strange adults and science fair is high stress.  But, she apparently did well enough to win and do it again.  She's doing really well in school and socially.  

Anna's anxiety is less and she's coping well at home.  She had her wisdom teeth out, which was a bit of a setback.  She still has some trouble with anxiety and sounds out of the house.  She won't stay in the service at church; she (and usually Cat) goes and sits on a pew in the hallway where they can still hear.  She starts classes at the community college next week.  Hoping she will handle it okay.

[Terabith]

Just now, CuriousMomof3 said:

 

Good luck with community college, that's a big step!

Thanks!  I'm really hoping it works out, because she absolutely really won't work for me.  She's taking College Writing 1, Pre-Calculus 1, and Psych 200.  

[PeterPan]

9 hours ago, CuriousMomof3 said:

One thing that's going really well for us now, is his ability to communicate what he wants and needs.  Things that were so hard 5 months ago, when I first posted here, like telling us whether he feels up to eating something, or choosing an activity, are going really well now.  And when things are hard, he can often tell us something that might help, at least a little. 

That's AMAZING!! That's really good progress, so I can see why you're psyched. I'm sorry he had a rough holiday. Our weather here is so mild, I think the viruses are going to be bad later. But that's a big win, in the face of things it's hard to do anything about, to have that humanity of connection, to be able to self-advocate and connect. Wonderful!

[PeterPan]

8 hours ago, Terabith said:

She's taking College Writing 1, Pre-Calculus 1, and Psych 200. 

Oh wow, she got in and got registered!! That's good stuff!!! 

Well obviously she has to get through it, but still, what a relief. And that, for her age, is a full load. If she does that and does it reasonable well (learning how to navigate, how to self-advocate, etc.), then that's a big win. That sets her up to go forward. DE was good for my dd in that sense. 

Well keep us posted. 

[PeterPan]

20 minutes ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

Super glad y'all talked me into and through that. 

Anything else we should talk you into?   

I'm glad they're recovering enough y'all can do some work. It sounds like it has been a rough season of germs for you. Me, I've had elderberry, garlic, aspirin, C, turmeric, anything I can think of today. I'm like stay away germs, stay away germs...

[PeterPan]

17 minutes ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

Maybe the rain will wash all the plague away

Hurry up and get it out of your system, will ya'? I expect NICE WEATHER when I come!! 

[Storygirl]

I can't say that there is anything that is going better with DS15 right now, to be honest. We are getting through each day. The first semester of high school was rough, in multiple ways, but at least it is over, and DS passed all of his classes (it was touch and go on a few subjects for awhile). We are trying to build some better routines for studying and for things at home but it takes time. We have a lot of setbacks, but we keep trying.

DS did get his braces off. I anticipated a big ordeal over wearing his nighttime retainer, but so far it has only been a little ordeal, and he's getting used to it and complaining less. His tooth care has always been a concern, so I'm glad that it's easier for him to brush now.

He is seeing a counselor every week now, and he doesn't complain about going. Being willing to go is a big deal for him, even though we haven't seen any changes yet. He does not open up and talk to the counselor -- it's not that he needs someone to talk to. We are hoping that the counselor can help him develop some more flexible thinking and emotional regulation, so that he can get along better with others, and so that he can understand himself better. He's been going since July or August, I think, and I'm getting to a point where I am hoping to see a bit of progress other than "willing to go to the appointment." I talked over some things with the counselor at our last visit, and I'm still hopeful that counseling will be a good thing for DS. It's a hard thing to judge, though, how much counseling can help someone who doesn't want to talk during the sessions and does not have a motivation to make changes. We will give it time. The fact that he is willing to go was goal number one, though, so we are glad about that.

He got into the high school jazz band, which was an important personal accomplishment for him.

[Storygirl]

DD14, who has dyslexia, is doing well in 8th grade, during her first year in public school (previously, she attended a dyslexia school). Social things were bumpy in a typical mean-girl middle school way at her other school, and things seem to be going better socially with her new group of friends. DD14 can be pretty moody, and I think she is doing better emotionally this year than before. I think the social things at school were more problematic than we realized, so I'm glad that we decided to change schools this year instead of waiting until 9th grade (which is what her previous school recommended).

Her teachers think she is doing well, and her grades are good, without her needing much extra assistance. Her IEP meeting is next week, and I'm hoping we can avoid them saying that she doesn't need the IEP any more; high school will bring new challenges, and she still needs support. I'm pretty sure we will have the IEP renewed for at least one more year, based on her progress report on her IEP goals.

[popmom]

PeterPan! I love this update so much! Sounds a lot like how my dd learns best. I'm seriously very happy to hear this. My dd's interest is psychology--specifically right now the MBTI/Myers Briggs. I give her as much computer time as she wants to explore her psychology stuff. She has pretty much come out of her "burn out" "shut down" thing she went through before the holidays. 

[Pen]

Yay!!! 👍

[Shellydon]

Glad to hear such great news!

[Kanin]

On 1/12/2020 at 10:20 PM, PeterPan said:

What I *wasn't* expecting was that this would push his OVERALL language forward. That has blown my mind. Because of course he's taking in language in his area of perseverative interest without any restriction like controlling the lexile, haha. So high motivation, high interest, and language coming from (presumably) 20 year old males. It moved him forward.

Awesome!!! Completely opposite of say, controlling reading material to what a student can read in Barton. I'm starting to see my students thrive more with more difficulty and less control, too. The Spell-Links curriculum (which I haven't bought yet) samples show that they introduce ALL the ways to make a certain sound at the same time, no drip drip drip. I emailed and asked, do you do this even for first graders? And they said yup. So I've been mulling that around in my brain. 

So happy you're seeing positive developments!

[Kanin]

My success is that my student with SUPER low visual memory scores, who I was getting really worried about, thinking maybe it's vision, maybe there's just a really sucky disability going on in addition to dyslexia, is starting to BLEND! For the first time ever, he read actual sentences to me without sounding out every. single. sound. It just happened out of the blue. He read actual pages (multiple!) of the sound-out series (CVC words) from High Noon.

 

[PeterPan]

6 hours ago, Mainer said:

Awesome!!! Completely opposite of say, controlling reading material to what a student can read in Barton. I'm starting to see my students thrive more with more difficulty and less control, too. The Spell-Links curriculum (which I haven't bought yet) samples show that they introduce ALL the ways to make a certain sound at the same time, no drip drip drip. I emailed and asked, do you do this even for first graders? And they said yup. So I've been mulling that around in my brain. 

So happy you're seeing positive developments!

So I taught my ds all the sounds upfront, yes. I did because he has the cognitive ability and could handle it. I think SPELL-Links might be kind of cognitively messy for some kids. And, fwiw, my ds isn't reading beyond what he can decode, kwim? He's been reading at the same level since 1st grade. Right now his language disability is his biggest issue, like just flat not understanding language. And throwing him into harder stuff doesn't help with that. The conversational text they're using on these screens is still doubtless stupid level. I mean, we're talking 20 yo idiot males making up nerf challenges, trying to win Zelda with only chickens, really stupid stuff. This is not high literature, lol. But it's dumb enough that it's only a small step up from what he could understand. 

When I taught my dd, years ago, she had very poor visual memory (which we didn't realize) and struggled to retain spelling. I taught her with SWR which, like SPELL-Links, throws them in the deep end. She understood a lot, but it was such a slog. Ds' issues with spelling are so fundamentally different, because they stem from his lack of awareness of language on a morphological level. He memorized language whole to parts, and we've constantly been fighting that, trying to build back up. That's why it's amazing that it's AT ALL reasonable to him to add -s or that he can hear it or think that way, because it's thinking morphologically about the meanings of the components.

It just seems like a lot of intervention now doesn't discriminate WHY the kids are having the issues and just throws the same program and thought process at everyone. And that's necessary on a school level and not at all how we want to roll on an individual level. I think it's why we have people teaching through 9 levels of Barton and the kids still not able to spell functionally, because there was more going on.

[PeterPan]

6 hours ago, Mainer said:

My success is that my student with SUPER low visual memory scores, who I was getting really worried about, thinking maybe it's vision, maybe there's just a really sucky disability going on in addition to dyslexia, is starting to BLEND! For the first time ever, he read actual sentences to me without sounding out every. single. sound. It just happened out of the blue. He read actual pages (multiple!) of the sound-out series (CVC words) from High Noon.

 

Oh that's a miracle!!! And that reflects a lot of hard work, wow. And once you get that click, then he can really go forward. So good, so exciting. Have you worked on RAN/RAS? I was doing that and fluency drills with ds.

[Lecka]

I made my son read a chapter of his current book today and I felt pretty good about every word I helped him with except “reluctantly.”  That is too hard I think!  Every other word I thought was worthwhile and realistic.  Sigh!  We are still on the Creature Campers book lol. 
 

I don’t know exactly what is going on with him.  He has a good background in decoding, he really does.  He has comprehension issues as well though.  I don’t even know.  He is making progress though that is the main thing. 
 

Edit:  yes autism diagnosis

Edited January 19, 2020 by Lecka

[PeterPan]

5 minutes ago, Lecka said:

He has comprehension issues as well though.

Reluctantly would be a very hard word to understand!

It seems like a lot of these kids hit walls with syntax and comprehension.

[Lecka]

It is so odd because he “can” read but the comprehension is not what is “expected.”  So I am trying to work on comprehension, but I think generic reading is still very beneficial.  
 

I think he is improving greatly as far as reading for church, for reading words here and there, for reading a page here and there, sentences are excellent, but it doesn’t get to reading/comprehending a chapter book independently.  

[PeterPan]

8 minutes ago, Lecka said:

I think he is improving greatly as far as reading for church, for reading words here and there, for reading a page here and there, sentences are excellent, but it doesn’t get to reading/comprehending a chapter book independently.  

Does he comprehend the same book if he uses audio instead of reading it himself? That would tell you what is language (expressive, narrative) or attention or whatever vs. what is fatigue of decoding on top of trying to comprehend. 

[Lecka]

We are moving in a year and I don’t know what church we will end up at..... here we attend a very nice Methodist church and he is very, very close to being able to read the hymns and the scripture lessons.  I am kind-of over trying for chapter books but really I am still trying for them, but in the sense that if I try for chapter books but get church-service-level reading I will be very happy.  

[Lecka]

He has already listened to this book at school because they do the Epic reading app at school.

I don’t know what to say.

His listening level is ahead of his reading level but only by a small amount.  When he picks audiobooks at his reading level he picks things at a 2nd grade level and I think that is about right for him.  
 

But a 2nd grade level is also not that low for things that aren’t reading a whole book.  He is getting to where he reads well for anything below actually reading a book.  

[Lecka]

My 9th grader is preparing for state testing where he needs to write 3 paragraphs, with one claim, two examples, and a conclusion — it seems like it will be easy for him and my daughter, but impossible for my younger son.  

[Lecka]

I think it is what it is.  Being able to read scripture lessons and hymns seems like it is very within reach and I am happy about that.  We read scripture passages and prayers (printed in the bulletin) together during the service and I think we are very close to that.  

[Lecka]

My daughter was just one of 4 students in her class chosen to read an essay out loud in her 5th grade class — it is very nice for her but I don’t find it to reflect on my son’s abilities even though I have put more effort into my son. But I think reading for church is a good goal and I am happy with that.  

[Lecka]

Really I have put about 1,000 times more effort into my son who gets very borderline results, than my daughter who is really a top student and a favorite of her teacher and the librarian. 

[Lecka]

But I think my daughter has gotten a lot out of the teacher and librarian encouraging her.   I am more focused on my son, oh well. 

Edited January 19, 2020 by Lecka

[Lecka]

Realistically with my twins, my daughter reads a fat advanced chapter book about once a week, she is half-way through a Dear America book right now, and I am very pleased for my son to read about 5 pages in a books probably 3 years below his age level.  That is where we are.  I try!  
 

Edit:  but realistically she read several hundred pages a week with excellent comprehension while my son might read 5 pages a day.  Sigh. 5 pages is extremely good for him.  

Edited January 19, 2020 by Lecka

[Kanin]

2 hours ago, PeterPan said:

When I taught my dd, years ago, she had very poor visual memory (which we didn't realize) and struggled to retain spelling. I taught her with SWR which, like SPELL-Links, throws them in the deep end. She understood a lot, but it was such a slog. Ds' issues with spelling are so fundamentally different, because they stem from his lack of awareness of language on a morphological level. He memorized language whole to parts, and we've constantly been fighting that, trying to build back up. That's why it's amazing that it's AT ALL reasonable to him to add -s or that he can hear it or think that way, because it's thinking morphologically about the meanings of the components.

That's kinda making my brain spin! Just figuring out what the problem is... let alone fixing it... is definitely difficult. 

 

2 hours ago, PeterPan said:

It just seems like a lot of intervention now doesn't discriminate WHY the kids are having the issues and just throws the same program and thought process at everyone. And that's necessary on a school level and not at all how we want to roll on an individual level. I think it's why we have people teaching through 9 levels of Barton and the kids still not able to spell functionally, because there was more going on.

Yes... and it's annoying when people say, Well, I differentiate for 20 kids, so a small group of 3 shouldn't be so bad. And maybe not, but if they've all got different needs but they're all in 4th grade, so they're grouped because of time and staff constraints, huh. Reality vs. what COULD happen is what keeps me up at night. That and my cat meowing all night, lol. 

[Kanin]

2 hours ago, PeterPan said:

Oh that's a miracle!!! And that reflects a lot of hard work, wow. And once you get that click, then he can really go forward. So good, so exciting. Have you worked on RAN/RAS? I was doing that and fluency drills with ds.

Yay, yes, it feels like a miracle! And it's right in the nick of time, because this kid was getting seriously sick of practicing the same old thing AGAIN that he couldn't do. No formal RAN/RAS, but I have always been intrigued with your dots pages. 

[Kanin]

2 hours ago, Lecka said:

I made my son read a chapter of his current book today and I felt pretty good about every word I helped him with except “reluctantly.”  That is too hard I think!  Every other word I thought was worthwhile and realistic.  Sigh!  We are still on the Creature Campers book lol. 

This is definitely something to celebrate! Yay!

[Kanin]

1 hour ago, Lecka said:

Edit:  but realistically she read several hundred pages a week with excellent comprehension while my son might read 5 pages a day.  Sigh. 5 pages is extremely good for him.  

Comparison is the thief of joy, as the saying goes... it must be especially hard to have twins to make the comparison that much more obvious. Your son is lucky to have a mom who meets him where he is, and is proud of his successes, no matter that they look different than his sister's. 

[Lecka]

I do have a hard time with them being twins.  I try to just keep them separate in my mind.  We pretend he is younger most of the time and that works out pretty well.  

[Lecka]

They are spending a lot of time together lately jumping on the trampoline and watching YouTube videos, so that is nice.  

[Lecka]

He is an easy kid to his teacher too, which I am loving, since he had behavior issues in the past.  It is really nice for him to have an easy, smooth time after not having easy, smooth times at all when he was younger.  
 

His teacher this year is friends with someone I am in church choir with and I have heard such good things about her.  It is a good year for sure.  

Edited January 20, 2020 by Lecka

[kbutton]

For my kiddo with ASD, I think the middle years were just weird---our experience is that behavior kept getting better but learning was more concrete for a longer time. Sibling relationships improved. He became more fun as a person, but less academic! He learned a lot of good lifeskills during that time that are blossoming now. 

(For Lecka)

Edited January 20, 2020 by kbutton

[kbutton]

As for our progress--language work continues to expand my older son's world. He's in 10th grade, and he's starting to move into the rhetoric stage with his language, though he's not really ever going to be Mr. Eloquent. We see a lot more language out of him at home with broader patterns for asking questions and categorizing what he says. We don't have to infer what's most important nearly as often because he's building more main idea/detail patterns into how he speaks. It's helping tremendously with language arts. I still wish he could more easily state problems, but it's SO much better!

My younger kiddo is much more diligent about his work this year. He's doing extremely well in math. He had some speed bumps with procedural stuff that he understood conceptually, but I think that part of it is the "6th grade forgetting," and it helped to just build in some time working on those concepts every few days. It hasn't significantly slowed his forward progress (yay!). He's getting therapy for auditory processing, and it's also making a difference--grandparents have noticed. 

[PeterPan]

18 hours ago, Lecka said:

5 pages is extremely good for him.

Does he like comics?

I think your goal of having him able to participate in church is WONDERFUL.

1 hour ago, kbutton said:

I still wish he could more easily state problems

I know, my ds has this weird way of coming up and making an accusatory statement when he means to ask a QUESTION! 

[kbutton]

27 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

I know, my ds has this weird way of coming up and making an accusatory statement when he means to ask a QUESTION! 

Yep. That's a good description!

Not all the time, but definitely under stress. Usually it's when he doesn't understand verbal directions or how what he's physically doing can be changed to meet an expectation because what he's trying to do isn't working. I am a little worried about this on the job and during vocational training, but maybe we can get it in his IEP/504 that this happens so it's not a surprise. He doesn't present as someone who would be like this, especially with skills where is he is more competent than others of the same age (a friend who knows him pretty well and has been around when he's volunteering his skills was shocked to hear he has trouble with this, for instance). But it WILL happen at some point under pressure with new, difficult tasks. He tends to dazzle with his current skills, which gives an illusion that his competence extends to the language too! But he's still learning, and that takes up brain space to be able to ask a question. 

[Lecka]

If it does happen — I hope people will be understanding.  It does go a long way to be hardworking and being seen as making an effort, I think.  That is hard when it can come across in a way that is not intended.

Well, we have decided to be a bit stricter on reading and not let him get away with some things.  He can have a nice time and a snack and hot chocolate, or he can do it anyway and have his iPod taken away (in 15-minute increments at this point, and then I let him earn time back if he fixes his behavior.....)

He is just going to have to read out loud a few minutes a day because we know it will benefit him.  
 

I have not tried comics lately.  They tend to be problematic because of small print.  It is worth trying them out again!  
 

I ordered another book by the same author, my son looked at the sample and said he does think he will like it.  

[PeterPan]

1 hour ago, Lecka said:

They tend to be problematic because of small print.

Isn't he 10/11??? Maybe he needs to go to the eye doctor?

[Kanin]

9 hours ago, kbutton said:

He's getting therapy for auditory processing, and it's also making a difference--grandparents have noticed. 

That's great! May I ask what therapy you're doing for auditory processing?

[kbutton]

1 hour ago, Mainer said:

That's great! May I ask what therapy you're doing for auditory processing?

I believe it's therapy developed to accompany the Buffalo model for auditory processing. It's being done with an audiologist, but we're also having to work around what is "allowed" in his IEP. I know one facet of it involves an app called Hear Coach. 

About the Buffalo Model: https://www.audiologyonline.com/articles/apd-evaluation-to-therapy-buffalo-945

Eventually, I think the audiologist wants to use CAPDOTS with him as well. She's using that with other students. Funding sources make a difference in what she can do, unfortunately.

[Lecka]

(He had his eyes checked over the summer.  Not a fan of any small or dense text.  I think it is his reading level.)

[Lecka]

I think we are getting back into a good routine.  Needs some tweaking, lol, but I feel like I have so much more energy for it today than I did a couple of days ago.  

Somehow I am back in a mindset of being excited about progress and thinking it is worth it!  I think it does help me to vent.  

Edited January 21, 2020 by Lecka

[Kanin]

18 hours ago, kbutton said:

I believe it's therapy developed to accompany the Buffalo model for auditory processing. It's being done with an audiologist, but we're also having to work around what is "allowed" in his IEP. I know one facet of it involves an app called Hear Coach. 

About the Buffalo Model: https://www.audiologyonline.com/articles/apd-evaluation-to-therapy-buffalo-945

Eventually, I think the audiologist wants to use CAPDOTS with him as well. She's using that with other students. Funding sources make a difference in what she can do, unfortunately.

Thanks, I'm going to learn more 🙂 

[PeterPan]

nt

Edited January 21, 2020 by PeterPan

[Lecka]

This morning already went better, we are getting a routine and expectations back.  
 

Part of my frustration was — sometimes time-actually-on-task was being maybe 4-7 minutes that drug on and on and on.  I have to make it so clear I will not give up and give in.  Now he is already having a lot better attitude and willingness.

I think we are just now coming back from Christmas!  I thought we were but I guess we weren’t.

We did take a needed break too that was good and I felt like he was doing a lot of really good things with his free time.  Now I feel like — he has 30 minutes!!!!!! in his day that I think will add up over time, and he can still have a really good amount of free time.  Because now it can take even less than that!  
 

When he sees how much there is to do and thinks “I can do this” it makes such a huge difference, but getting there can be really “the only way out is through.”  
 

And I am deciding on an amount and then if he gets it done — I will not add more.  That is always a tricky thing between us, sigh.  I know it is really more productive though.  

[Lecka]

He has also been a little picky about what he will read, and refusing some easier things, but I looked back through my things and a series *maybe* he would read for practice is a lower Lexile level than what he is reading right now!!!!!! Maybe, lol.  

[Lecka]

I asked my 14-year-old last night if he thought I was being too mean, and he said “no way.”  I asked my husband and he also said he didn’t think so.  
 

(My son will moan, beg “please, please,” cry as if he is hurt, etc..... that is harder for me than when he is being more like “I won’t do it.”)

Edit:  and this morning he did the same things with no moaning or crying so I know it is not too hard for him unless he is fatigued or having an off day — which I would see signs of besides just not wanting to practice reading.  Sigh.  

Edited January 22, 2020 by Lecka