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Question/ Am I older than a dinosaur in my thinking on this?


itsheresomewhere
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6 hours ago, Patty Joanna said:

You are not a dinosaur, or if you are, you have better manners as a dinosaur than these people do.  It drove me nuts when the children's choir would sing and all the parents would cluster in the front rows, take their photos of their darlings, and then when the small fry were done singing, the whole front section of parents would walk out.  Of CHURCH.  

Meanwhile, there were people standing in the back who had no seats.  

I saw this in my church too😳

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Stay. The only excuse for leaving would be so that younger children who are with you aren't disruptive to the rest of the audience OR if you have another event that you must leave for. Even then, sit in the back and slip out quietly. How demoralizing for the kids who have worked so hard, only to see the audience getting smaller and smaller. 

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I thought the whole point of a recital was to have an audience.

It would not even occur to me to leave unless I had a pressing commitment that required it.

On the other hand ... I leave after my kid finishes a Girls On the Run 5k.  They ask people to stay until the last kid finishes, but that will be quite long, and we always have something else to do right after - either church or my other kid's horse show already in progress.  But even if we didn't ... I don't see us waiting over an hour to see the last person finish.

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12 hours ago, Terabith said:

Last dance recital I went to started off packed and by the end had less than 20 people left.  Hundreds of people left.  I was so furious.  I made my kid quit dance after that because I was so angry at the culture of the studio. 

In cases like this, I think it’s important what the first several performer parents do because people are lemmings and will decide to leave when their kid is done if the previous ten parents did that. All events have a “social tone” that influences the ultimate outcome. 
 

Tangent that demonstrates this: my dh is a small plane pilot and goes most years to the big air show in Wisconsin, which is attended by tens of thousands of guests. He said one time the amazing thing is that the place is left spotlessly clean. People don’t litter. They don’t leave piles of garbage and water bottles and chicken bones lying around. The tone there is: we all take care of our trash. If you don’t, some old ex-marine is bound to call you out. 😄 So, though thousands of people attend, the power of a certain social expectation prevails and nearly everybody endeavors to keep it neat. 

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16 minutes ago, SKL said:

I thought the whole point of a recital was to have an audience.

It would not even occur to me to leave unless I had a pressing commitment that required it.

On the other hand ... I leave after my kid finishes a Girls On the Run 5k.  They ask people to stay until the last kid finishes, but that will be quite long, and we always have something else to do right after - either church or my other kid's horse show already in progress.  But even if we didn't ... I don't see us waiting over an hour to see the last person finish.

If they've asked people to stay you should plan that in or pick a different 5k to run.  "I don't see us waiting" is the same thing the people who leave recitals think. 

Based on the name I'm guessing this is a girl centered event.  How nice that they are wanting *every* girl encouraged and are modeling girls supporting each other.  

Edited by happi duck
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We don't leave performances.  We stay.  I mean it does help that I have 5 kids performing so they are in different parts and it wouldn't make sense.   If we had to leave because we had something else going on, than that would be ok once in a while.  But it would have to be something important, not that we just wanted to leave.  

One place we dance at will not even release your child until the whole show is over.   That is how they get everyone to stay.  

But honestly my kids don't want to leave.  If they are backstage they want to hang with their friends, if they can watch the second half they do that, or otherwise they do volunteer work.   But even with really small kids as we have been in dance for the last 11 years, we have always stayed.  My babies have sat through Nutcracker every year since they were born.   That means 10 shows, 3 rehearsals, and countless in studio rehearsals every year.  

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18 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

As a member of the group that usually finishes last, man, I hope most people leave lol.  There was once that about 5 or 10 people stayed and were cheering us on....DD9, who was like 7 or 8 at the time, thought that meant she won.  Which was super cute, but yeah, I would much rather that people who finish their 5ks in like 20 minutes NOT see me huffing and puffing it in at like an hour and five lol. 

This would be me also, both now and (especially) when I was a young girl.

GOTR is the only race I've ever seen where people are asked to stay around.  And no we do not have anything to do other than sit/stand in the cold and wait.  With a sweaty kid.

I am of two minds about the girl aspect of it.  Actually not really.  I don't agree with the idea that we need to treat girls like they just did something miraculous because they ran 3 miles, when nobody does that for boys.  IMO it reinforces the idea that running 3 miles is extra hard for a girl, which it isn't.

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How long was the recital?  I agree with staying for the whole thing if no other commitments or melting down children are involved, but my daughters had a piano teacher who insisted on only one recital for all her students.  It was 2.5-3 hours long. When it's that long, it's unrealistic to expect everyone to stay for the whole thing.  We stayed, but it was asking a lot. If there were shorter recitals on different days for people to pick what works best for their schedule, I think there might be more compliance with staying.

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At my kids' school performances, they make it clear with announcements before the program starts that you are expected to stay for the whole thing. 

Not everyone listens. It is a very different experience with my older daughter and her choir (their choice to be there), versus my younger daughter and her elementary school music class performances (i.e., everyone in school must participate). But of course, my younger daughter's performance will probably have more parents of young kids in attendance.

Still, there is a big difference between someone leaving the auditorium quietly with a crying baby (usually sitting in the back, and at the end of the aisle) and an entire family loudly getting up from the middle of the aisle in the front of the auditorium during the next act. It's just common courtesy to stay if you can.

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3 hours ago, Homeschool Mom in AZ said:

How long was the recital?  I agree with staying for the whole thing if no other commitments or melting down children are involved, but my daughters had a piano teacher who insisted on only one recital for all her students.  It was 2.5-3 hours long. When it's that long, it's unrealistic to expect everyone to stay for the whole thing.  We stayed, but it was asking a lot. If there were shorter recitals on different days for people to pick what works best for their schedule, I think there might be more compliance with staying.

I'm not so big this is an issue yet, but I can tell you that this is often a financial decision.  If you have to pay an outside facility, like a church, often there is a clean up cost that will be added for each event. And if you try to schedule two recitals back to back, you've got the problem of getting group 1 to stop socializing during Group 2's recital, and Group 2 needing to come in and needing direction during group 1's recital.

I teach through Parks and Rec, and if I were not one of their official programs, it would have cost me $250 to use the space we used for our about 1 hour recital in December, because I needed time for set up and tear down. If I did a 2 hour recital, it would be $300, and a 3 hour one $350. Two one hours would be $500, and three would be $750-for what used to be the cafetorium when the building was a school. I will be able to split if my program grows enough that recitals will be much more than an hour (that's the spot I try to stay at as a former school music teacher, because much longer and the audience becomes much less attentive)-but I understand why teachers don't. And dance probably requires a more expensive venue. I just need room for about 100 parents and a decent piano. 

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15 hours ago, Katy said:

Recently the trend where we've lived is to have piano recitals in the mall before Christmas.  They last from 10am-8pm on a Saturday.  For that type of recital I'm not staying.

For a quiet room or auditorium and a 90 minute performance I'll stay for the whole thing.

Okay, yeah.  That’s ridiculous.  And I agree that recitals should be kept under 2 hours. And obviously, crying baby/ restless toddler/ sudden flu are legitimate exceptions.  But in general, people should definitely stay through the end.  And not scream or whoop during the number.  Or take flash photography.  I think people need to be taught proper audience behavior. 

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17 hours ago, Katy said:

Recently the trend where we've lived is to have piano recitals in the mall before Christmas.  They last from 10am-8pm on a Saturday.  For that type of recital I'm not staying.

For a quiet room or auditorium and a 90 minute performance I'll stay for the whole thing.

 

Yeah, to me that doesn't seem like a recital (even if that's what the teacher would call it), and there would be no expectation for an audience to stay. It is more like background music for shoppers. 

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1 hour ago, dmmetler said:

I'm not so big this is an issue yet, but I can tell you that this is often a financial decision.  If you have to pay an outside facility, like a church, often there is a clean up cost that will be added for each event. And if you try to schedule two recitals back to back, you've got the problem of getting group 1 to stop socializing during Group 2's recital, and Group 2 needing to come in and needing direction during group 1's recital.

I teach through Parks and Rec, and if I were not one of their official programs, it would have cost me $250 to use the space we used for our about 1 hour recital in December, because I needed time for set up and tear down. If I did a 2 hour recital, it would be $300, and a 3 hour one $350. Two one hours would be $500, and three would be $750-for what used to be the cafetorium when the building was a school. I will be able to split if my program grows enough that recitals will be much more than an hour (that's the spot I try to stay at as a former school music teacher, because much longer and the audience becomes much less attentive)-but I understand why teachers don't. And dance probably requires a more expensive venue. I just need room for about 100 parents and a decent piano. 

Increased facility cost does not increase attention span and interest in audience members.  In those cases, it's simply not realistic to have a recital for everyone.  That sucks.  Most people do not have the time, bandwidth, or interest for 2.5-3 hours of listening to/watching scores of students.  They just don't.   In those cases, a recital isn't realistic. If the parents are bothered by that teachers can simply post the cost of the facility when parents enroll the kids and what it breaks down to per student and tell them if they're willing to pay for the facility, you'll happily reserve the facility for the specific dates only if they send in their portion of the cost by a certain deadline. If all of it doesn't come in and there's no recital, parents will get their recital facility fees back. Or the class/lesson rate needs to be adjusted and itemized: hours of instruction, cost of sheet music, cost of costumes, cost of sets, cost of facility for recital per student, etc.

I was tired of hearing their piano teacher huffing and clutching her pearls over the number of families who had to leave early for other events and obligations.  Not every family is like hers where all 3 of her close in age sons took lessons from her and music was the only extra curricular option for them.  Plenty of her students had siblings that participated in other types of activities.  She was also miffed about the number of people who left immediately after instead of staying for cookies, cake, and punch.  So add on another half an hour to an hour to the 2.5-3 hours.  I'm betting some of the people who said they had another obligation didn't.  I was sorely tempted several times.

So, basically consideration needs to go both ways.  Yes, I'll stay unless I have a kid melting down or another obligation I can't move, but don't take advantage of me by making something ridiculously long because it cost you money.  Charge it as a registration fee, increase the lesson cost, whatever. 

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12 minutes ago, CuriousMomof3 said:

Maybe “completely different” is an overstatement, but I just see sports as different from performances.

I think the idea of treating kids with the same respect as professionals is a good one, and I can think of things I’ve done during college or professional sporting events that I would never think of doing during a concert.

Arrive half way through because something came up 

Get up and walk out because I wanted a hot dog

Intentionally head to the bathroom 5 minutes before half time so I can avoid the lines 

Leave half way through the 9th inning to avoid crowds in the parking lot

So, I feel the same way about kids sports.  A typical spring weekend for us might have 3 baseball games, a track meet and a soccer game.  I will make it to the parts I can, and suggest that grandparents stop by but I also won’t feel bad walking away for a while to push a sibling on the swing, or leaving midway to take another kid to another event, or visiting concessions. or staying for the first 20 minutes and then going to the grocery store.

I do expect my children who are athletes to stay until the end, even if they are injured and benched.  My husband coaches and he’d never do what was described where apparently the other coaches left while an athlete was still swimming, but I don’t consider a parent or grandparent leaving remotely like leaving a concert, or that it’s reasonable to say that I can only see my kid play on a weekend when I have zero conflicts.

Honestly, if I pay for a ticket (which you do for some high school and most college sports) then, yes, I do what I want. 

I get wanting to leave. We always only had one parent at recitals and games until the youngest was participating or could sit through a 90 minute stretch. 

But my kids have had so many experiences of swimming at the end of a meet (even the state championships) where teammates and their parents just could not be bothered to stay. It is deflating to win an event and have no one see it. I feel pretty strongly that unless you have a serious conflict- you stay to support the event. 

Don't be the family and fans that miss the last second miracle play, the junior national cut, the walk off home run in extra innnings. Don't miss the older kid who is showing what an amazing teacher your 7 year old has. Or the teens in dance that are headed to college. Just don't be that person- you will be rewarded down the line.

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I really do understand conflicts and double booking and wiggly little kids. I have five kids who played multiple sports and instruments and I did not get to see them play every time. I understand wanting to see your own kid and not wanting to stay for hours to watch other people's kids. 

I am just saying- it shouldn't be a habit to constantly leave early or duck out when things are over for you personally. Recitals usually put older kids last- yours will be older eventually. Your kid may specialize in an event that is always last. Everyone puts work in, dance, music, sports. If you are privileged enough to be at a recital or competition, acknowledge that everyone has worked hard there and deserves an audience.

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3 hours ago, OH_Homeschooler said:

 

Yeah, to me that doesn't seem like a recital (even if that's what the teacher would call it), and there would be no expectation for an audience to stay. It is more like background music for shoppers. 

 

There is formal seating (folding chairs), but otherwise, yes, it's background music.  I think shoppers appreciate it though.  People would wander up, smiling, then wander away.

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1 hour ago, Katy said:

 

There is formal seating (folding chairs), but otherwise, yes, it's background music.  I think shoppers appreciate it though.  People would wander up, smiling, then wander away.

We did a few of those.  Yes, shoppers would come up closer to watch.  Quite a few stayed for the whole time we were there-usually about an hour because we had 3 kids playing at different levels.

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1 hour ago, Katy said:

 

There is formal seating (folding chairs), but otherwise, yes, it's background music.  I think shoppers appreciate it though.  People would wander up, smiling, then wander away.

 

I personally liked to perform in these sorts of situations more than a true concert or recital. It just felt more laid back and it helped me relax because the focus wasn't on  me. But I expected the audience to come and go. I would have been crushed if it was a concert setting and I saw a bunch of people leave when it was my turn to perform.

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Our studio (various instruments) has a huge number of students & schedules recitals to last 50 minutes. They had I think 16 recitals over the course of the weekend last month. Expectation is that you stay for your whole hour, so that the last kid gets the same size audience as the first.  I agree with the sentiment, and we did.
OTOH, when a recital includes voice students (as DS's have all, so far), before the first soprano comes up, we know that because it's a distressing sensory experience for DS that will have him in tears in a minute, either we need to leave discreetly (which we did when he was younger, at a previous studio with small audiences) or he needs to put earplugs in (& we sat at the back this time so we could do this and it wouldn't be obvious).
Most music and dance studios I've seen here have a recital fee so that there doesn't need to be a marathon.

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I have worked backstage at dance recitals for several studios.  I've done this for our main studio's holiday show and end-of-year recital for almost 20 years.  That studio has rules about this kind of thing, but there is always a family or two who just doesn't get it. 

First of all, we have a hundred or more kids backstage.  We are busy getting them into costumes, doing quick changes, handling minor crisises like torn costumes or lost headpieces, encouraging the nervous beginners, hugging the seniors for whom it is their last performance, and generally trying to put on a good show.  It is organized chaos. 

Sometimes we have a student who has to head to prom or some other important event, or is under the weather and has asked permission to leave early.  In those cases, we are aware in advance, and put getting that student on her way quickly after her last number goes more or less smoothly.  But having to release multiple kids at random while simultaneously running the show would be a nightmare.   

We do a few things to make it easier for everyone.  The littlest kids are only in Act 1, and they are released to their parents at intermission.  We leave it up to the parents to decide whether to take them home or bring them to the theater to watch Act 2.   For students who are only in Act 2, we take them into the audience and let them watch Act 1, then bring them backstage at intermission.  

We actually do 4-5 recitals:  Friday night, two shows Saturday, and one or two shows Sunday.  The youngest are only in one show, and the "once a week-ers" are also only in one.  The dance team kids are usually in 2-3 shows.  And the few who take a ton of classes may be in all 4-5 shows.  (I volunteer for all shows.)  So each family has some control over how many classes their child takes, and how many shows they will be in.  For the kids in several shows, some families watch their kid in every show, but some pick one and leave it at that.  The students who are in quite a few shows often have parents who are volunteering backstage or front-of-the-house for a couple of the shows too; the studio credits the family's account a small amount for each show in which they volunteer.

We don't allow photography during the show to prevent audience chaos, (it can be done at dress rehearsal).  And we don't allow anyone to enter or leave the studio during a number, only between numbers.  And the director asks people not to scream "Go Susie!" during the performances.  While people can leave the theater between numbers if they feel the need (usually to let their small kids run around a bit), they can't get their kids till intermission or the end, unless they have special permission.  There is a Grand Finale the larger kids can participate in if they choose; most families stay to the end to see it, but there are always some who exit early in the hopes we will release their kid early.  (Spoiler: we won't.)

The tricky thing for families is that the dancer needs to be at the theater up to an hour before the performance begins.  That sounds like a lot, but it takes time to get a whole class of kids into their costumes, take them to the bathroom, make sure their shoes are tied and their headpiece is on firmly, and so on.  So the family can end up having to wait around in the lobby until the house opens and they can get their seats.  Savvy moms team up - one mom takes a couple kids early, and the other moms plus the families follow later at a more reasonable time. 

But there is always one mom who waltzes in with their kid two minutes before the performance starts, no tights, no makeup, hair not done, no costume on.  We've been worried about this kid for the past twenty minutes, hoping they will get there on time.  The rest of the kid's class is already backstage, poised to go on in a few minutes, and worried about how they are going to do their dance without the child who should have been there at least 30 minutes ago.   We smile at the mom, tell her we'll handle it, get on the headset and let the show runner know that the kid has arrived, and two or three volunteers get to work getting the kid ready to go on.  

Our studio is great, and is willing to bend over backwards to work with people's conflicts, even rearranging the show order if necessary, IF they know in advance about the conflict.  What drives everyone nuts is people who don't talk about their needs ahead of time, and expect the volunteers to be able to focus on their child's sudden change of plans while juggling the demands of running a complicated backstage schedule.

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On 1/7/2020 at 6:21 PM, itsheresomewhere said:

Question here-  when did it become acceptable/normal to only watch your child at a recital/performance and leave?

I admit I am older than a dinosaur so maybe my thinking is a dinosaur on this.  I got into a debate with some homeschoolers who find it perfectly acceptable to only watch their child for a recital/performance and leave.  How it got started was several parents had a fit because their kids where in the middle of an 1.5 hour recital/performance and they wanted them to be at the beginning so they could leave.  Not for an appointment or anything, but why should they watch someone else’s child perform.  The other parents have informed me that I am way off base here and why would anyone stay to watch someone others kids perform.   So what is it like in your area- do you stay or is common to leave? 

 

I must be a dinosaur, too. I'm with you. Stay and support all the children doing their recital. What about the poor kid who goes last? 

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