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Question/ Am I older than a dinosaur in my thinking on this?


itsheresomewhere
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Question here-  when did it become acceptable/normal to only watch your child at a recital/performance and leave?

I admit I am older than a dinosaur so maybe my thinking is a dinosaur on this.  I got into a debate with some homeschoolers who find it perfectly acceptable to only watch their child for a recital/performance and leave.  How it got started was several parents had a fit because their kids where in the middle of an 1.5 hour recital/performance and they wanted them to be at the beginning so they could leave.  Not for an appointment or anything, but why should they watch someone else’s child perform.  The other parents have informed me that I am way off base here and why would anyone stay to watch someone others kids perform.   So what is it like in your area- do you stay or is common to leave? 

Edited by itsheresomewhere
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9 minutes ago, itsheresomewhere said:

Question here-  when did it become acceptable/normal to only watch your child at a recital/performance and leave?

I admit I am older than a dinosaur so maybe my thinking is a dinosaur on this.  I got into a debate with some homeschoolers who find it perfectly acceptable to only watch their child for a recital/performance and leave.  How it got started was several parents had a fit because their kids where in the middle of an 1.5 hour recital/performance and they wanted them to be at the beginning so they could leave.  Not for an appointment or anything, but why should they watch someone else’s child perform.  The other parents have informed me that I am way off base here and why would anyone stay to watch someone others kids perform.   So what is it like in your area- do you stay or is common to leave? 

Nope. Not a dinosaur. All the kids in the performance have worked hard, and it is disrespectful to get up and walk out, especially without a pressing reason. And yes, I've sat through my share of miserable first-year music performances. 

If it is an exceptionally long event, an intermission should be held to allow the audience to take a break, and perhaps leave if necessary.

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Stay. The whole point of the thing is to give kids a nice, non-threatening taste of performing for a group. Mom and dad have already heard that piece eleventy-billion times. It is also a safe place to practice sitting quietly and attentively for the (no more than 1) hour (if the teacher know what s/he is doing).

Not aimed at you Happysmiley, I also appreciate parents who know when it is time to exit.

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Stay if at all possible. 

Now, I will say, when I had babies and toddlers, I did not stay for aaaaalllll of Talent Night at co-op, but it is also true they scheduled it in such a manner that youngest kids performed first because there is a certain reasonableness in not staying until the last hurrah if you have babies. But in general, yes, there should be roughly the same audience for all performers. I also got a lot of joy out of celebrating the talents and skills of all the kids, not just my own. 

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There have always been people who act like that. Louts. They ought to focus more on teaching their kids manners than teaching them dance (or whatever).

Edit: Obviously, of course, there is an exception for people who need to leave. But you know yourself whether you need to leave (because your littlest can't take it or for whatever other reason) or if you just can't be bothered.

Edited by Tanaqui
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13 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

 And really, when my kid was performing, the only people she cared about seeing her was us anyway.  

I think lots of kids would be bothered by a constantly shrinking audience that amounted to their family and a bunch of empty chairs by the time they performed. Very anticlimactic, no thunderous applause, and could have performed for mom and dad in the living room, lol. 

By all means, leave with crying babies. However, if you have the ability to stay for an expensive performance, you likewise have the ability to stay for a free or cheap performance. (general you, not YOU)

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Stay. Jeepers. The last kid deserves an audience as much as the first kid. 

signed, the parent of a distance swimmer who once swam a mile for a coach, a parent and a janitor. Oh, and a grumpy official whose kid was pouting in the locker room.

Someday your kid will be the last one. And be sad that no one was there to see them.
 

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I have lived through at least 25 years of kid performances.  And either my husband or I did leave a few times when the younger ones were babies and toddlers.   But the other one of us stayed for the entire evening.   I always told my kids that if they were old enough to be in the show, they were old enough to watch everyone else.  To this day, it hurts me when my friends leave after their kids have performed but before mine have had their turn.  

Each time another showcase comes around, I want to come at intermission, miss the little kids, and just come for the portion that involves my high-school aged kids and their friends.  But I don't - because that seems rude, and a bad example for my teenagers.

Count me in as one more of the dinosaurs.  

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5 minutes ago, CuriousMomof3 said:

I feel like there are two separate issues here.  One is whether it's rude to leave.  I think that depends on both the reason you're leaving (e.g. a toddler who just can't make it, or you're performing brain surgery tomorrow and need your sleep), and how that leaving is pulled off.  I think that walking out while the next number is going on, and blocking people etc . . . is inexcusable unless you get a text that a kidney is available (I'm exaggerating.  One the other hand, I think that sitting in the back because you know you'll sneak out when the baby gets fussy, or taking advantage of a break in the performance, whether it's an intermission or the 3 minutes when the orchestra files out and the choir arranges themselves, is much more reasonable.

But the other issue is that even if you've decided that you will sneak out if the opportunity presents itself, I can't imagine having a fit because my kid wasn't first.  You get what you get and you don't get upset.  Unless it's truly bad scheduling, like they put the oldest kids first and asked the 5 year olds to go on at 10 p.m., there's no excuse for that.  

The performance/recital was from 3-4:30.  All kids who were young or had anxiety issues were scheduled to be in the first 10. The youngest child from one of the moms getting upset was 6.   I

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I'm a dinosaur.  In most cases, the audience should stay for the entire performance.  Those who must leave early for any reason other than a crying or unruly child, should leave at intermission or at least between performances.   Also, those who must leave early or suspect they will need to remove a crying or unruly child should sit in aisle seats near an exit. They should exit as quickly and quietly as possible.   Save the scolding for later.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, itsheresomewhere said:

Question here-  when did it become acceptable/normal to only watch your child at a recital/performance and leave?

I admit I am older than a dinosaur so maybe my thinking is a dinosaur on this.  I got into a debate with some homeschoolers who find it perfectly acceptable to only watch their child for a recital/performance and leave.  How it got started was several parents had a fit because their kids where in the middle of an 1.5 hour recital/performance and they wanted them to be at the beginning so they could leave.  Not for an appointment or anything, but why should they watch someone else’s child perform.  The other parents have informed me that I am way off base here and why would anyone stay to watch someone others kids perform.   So what is it like in your area- do you stay or is common to leave? 

 

Stay - unless mitigating special circumstances.  

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In our area, it's expected that you stay. 

It's also expected that recitals/performances are somewhat rare events--hopefully no more than one a semester.

I'm guessing the 3-4:30 moms had other places to be with other kids and weren't taking the event seriously.  I'm finding this dynamic more. Everyone has their kid in a bazillion things and they just act like a shuttle service from 3-9 pm bouncing back and forth all over town and eating takeout.

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We go to one of the largest and oldest community music programs in the country.  And from the start, kids are taught to be good audience members.  Even if there is a younger sibling that can't sit, one parent might tag team the lobby with the kid in the concert.  They reinforce it in lessons and classes and announce concert protocol at the beginning.  They put the oldest most advanced players at the end typically.   They do work hard to keep most performances to an hour.  

There are exceptions made.  But we always spoke to the teacher ahead of time.  My son who is now studying music in college maybe left a concert early a handfull of times in 13 years of lessons. And he performed a lot (he does theater too - that's a whole other ballgame).  His sister was 2 when he started and she was sitting quietly through hour long recitals with crayons by 3 or so.  They don't expect perfection from the younger audience members.  But they do expect training to be happening.  And it's WAY easier for younger kids when older kids are modeling the behavior.  

Anyway - I think that is completely rude and disrespectful to do on a regular basis.  I actually LOVE to sit through most recitals.  Little kids playing makes me cry now - so cute!  And I've loved watching kids progress over the years.  

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4 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

In our area, it's expected that you stay. 

It's also expected that recitals/performances are somewhat rare events--hopefully no more than one a semester.

I'm guessing the 3-4:30 moms had other places to be with other kids and weren't taking the event seriously.  I'm finding this dynamic more. Everyone has their kid in a bazillion things and they just act like a shuttle service from 3-9 pm bouncing back and forth all over town and eating takeout.

I asked these moms and no they had no where to go.  They actually said why would we stay and watch kids who are not our own. 
 

 

Edited by itsheresomewhere
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Just now, itsheresomewhere said:

I asked these moms and no they had no where to go.  They actually said why would we stay and watch kids who are not our own. 

I just don't get this at all.  Super self absorbed thought process to me.  My kids music studios have been like communities  to us over the years.  I really think the younger performer look up to the older performers.  My son has had little boys walk up to him and say "I want to play like you when I get older".  Older kids get to be leaders and model good behavior.  To me that's an important part of the whole process.    Such poor messaging to your child about respect and you're taking away possible role models  and inspiration.  Being a good supportive audience member and listener is a good life skill too.  When my kids were younger, we'd talk about recitals and which pieces we liked and we'd look them up, etc.

 

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We did a few preschool performances for Christmas or "graduation", but it was just the preschool class doing it not the whole school, so no real leaving possibilities.  We never did public school performances.

DD did dance for many years.  Her first studio had the younger kids do the first half, and older after the intermission.  It was encouraged for families to stay for the whole thing, but many left because their kid was done.  They were also asked to pick up their child at intermission which I am sure contributed.  We always had DD come watch the big kids, and she loved it.  It felt rude for the families to leave early, although I never minded it being a bit less crowded.

The new studio didn't separate by age groups for the performance.  It was all mixed together, often with a overarching theme.  So, you couldn't just pick up a kid mid-recital (I am sure they would make exceptions for special circumstances).  Everyone stayed to the end.  I liked that a lot better.  The littles always had activities to do backstage to keep them entertained.

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Thinking back on this, when I was a kid our dance center managed to avoid this problem by insisting that every class except the babies take part in the grand finale at the end. It wasn't until adulthood that I understood why they made us all do that.

And yeah, other than the babies going first, it was all split up - your age-grouped tap class might be near the beginning, the same age-grouped ballet class just before the intermission, and the same age-grouped jazz class might be near the end. This was ostensibly to give us all time to change, but in retrospect I wonder if this was also to keep butts in seats.

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When I had kids in public school, I saw this all the time. It was annoying because people rarely left quickly and quietly. There were a few times I had to leave early with a baby or because I needed to pick up another child at an activity, but I always felt bad and didn't make it a habit. If I knew I had to leave, I tried to sit somewhere near the door at the end of an aisle. 

Now I usually only go to my dd's dance recital. Our studio owner does everything professionally, has it down to a science, and nobody is leaving early from that show. Other than preschoolers, all dancers are in a backstage area that nobody without volunteer ID for that night can access and she has a police officer there to enforce it! Unless there's a true emergency, nobody is able to take their child before the end of the show. I guess grandma or aunt could leave during the show or someone with a preschooler could sneak out, but if a dancer left during the show, they would probably need to find a new studio.

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I always tried to stay for the entire recital - especially with the violin as the advanced students sounded amazing! It's also planting the seed with my dc of songs they may soon be playing. When they've already heard the pieces, they enjoyed learning them more and they learned them faster. It's motivating and educational for your younger students. 

Having said this, I would much rather people just leave if they are only going to stay and read texts and stuff. That is equally rude, and has the potential to be distracting for others trying to watch the performances. 

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It is normal to stay. If you must leave (small restless babies and toddlers, other child's performance got scheduled for the same evening across town, etc.) sit near the back along an aisle so you can leave unobtrusively.

Expecting your child's performance to be moved to the beginning because you just don't happen to want to sit through others is exceedingly rude.

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You stay, but...

At dd's voice recitals, people get up and take family pics while their kid is singing.  Then they all leave when finished.  As a parent and former musician, a basic human being with manners, I find this highly annoying and disrespectful.  There is usually a break between groups, and I can understand leaving then if necessary, but still...   Maybe it is the new norm.

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Of course you stay, but it is also good manners for the recital director to arrange the performance(s) so that little kids are not in a three-hour (or longer!) performance.  When my girls were littles in ballet, the many, many little girls' performances were split between two recitals.  The older girls performed in both, and their parents came to one (but all of one).  It was a sane approach.  The OP's 1.5 hours seems reasonable; but an all-class ballet recital would have been four hours long!

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Another vote that obviously you stay unless there's a health, baby, etc. reason not to.

The social contract is that everyone stays for the performance and in return, the studio/teacher/school doesn't let it be interminably long and breaks up the children who have just learned to play their first violin piece with children who can actually play so that our ears can recover.

I don't think any of us are dinosaurs for thinking this. I've been to a lot of things like this over the years and I've never seen everyone leave. Maybe a few people duck out, but generally they clearly have young kids. In other words, I don't think we should all bemoan everyone's manners. I think we should all insist that this is the norm and people who don't do that (again, unless they have a reason) are the weird ones. Because they are. Like, some norms change, but I really don't think this one has. I'm sure there are pockets of horrible rude parents and bad schools and studios, but really.

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At my dd’s dance recitals that always happens. They ask people to stay until intermission at least and most comply but there are always those that get up as soon as their little ones are done. 
 

It’s a mixed bag though. The studio does not need to make the recitals so freaking long. And they have those little kids in for so many late nights and recitals in the week leading up to the show. Those families with little ones are exhausted. So reason had already gone by the wayside.

My most recent experience has been attending dance recitals and they have been oppressively long. I think the people in charge could head some of this off by making shows a reasonable length. 

I have a big kid so she is always in the finale and most people have left but I can hardly blame them.

But I do agree with you, OP. But I tend to notice people being self absorbed in all kinds of ways. I don’t know if it is getting worse or I am just noticing it more as I age.

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Recently the trend where we've lived is to have piano recitals in the mall before Christmas.  They last from 10am-8pm on a Saturday.  For that type of recital I'm not staying.

For a quiet room or auditorium and a 90 minute performance I'll stay for the whole thing.

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3 minutes ago, Katy said:

Recently the trend where we've lived is to have piano recitals in the mall before Christmas.  They last from 10am-8pm on a Saturday.  For that type of recital I'm not staying.

For a quiet room or auditorium and a 90 minute performance I'll stay for the whole thing.

Oh. Interesting. Once we had a recital that was sort of a recital and sort of a concert for older folks in a senior living home. That also didn't feel like a situation where we all needed to stay.

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2 hours ago, teachermom2834 said:

My most recent experience has been attending dance recitals and they have been oppressively long. I think the people in charge could head some of this off by making shows a reasonable length. 

I've seen this with inexperienced teachers who don't see the recital as a complete show.  In my view it should not be more than an hour and a half, with a decent intermission.  In the case of the music school they have separate evenings, split by teacher.  Advanced and Beginner students are mixed throughout.

Edited by Hannah
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4 hours ago, Tanaqui said:

Thinking back on this, when I was a kid our dance center managed to avoid this problem by insisting that every class except the babies take part in the grand finale at the end. It wasn't until adulthood that I understood why they made us all do that.

And yeah, other than the babies going first, it was all split up - your age-grouped tap class might be near the beginning, the same age-grouped ballet class just before the intermission, and the same age-grouped jazz class might be near the end. This was ostensibly to give us all time to change, but in retrospect I wonder if this was also to keep butts in seats.

I think it is really disrespectful to leave and I haven't seen anyone get up and leave while the actual show is on.  That being said, the second half of a few recitals we've been to was less full than the first.  As you said, the instructors overcome this by putting the whole dance/music studio in a grand finale!  

We went to a friend's Spanish dance school recital a while ago and the show was phenomenal.  The dance teacher choreographed the pieces to include both beginners and more advanced dancers in the same numbers, really using the 'cute' factor of the littles, but briought in the talent of the older dancers too.  The dances were such that they could be rehearsed separately and combined in the dress rehearsals.  She had individual recitals and group recitals follow each other and had really thought about the transitions.  It was really excellent.

An interesting new phenomena here is that the parents in the audience call out the name of their child when the child comes on stage, rather than waiting for the end of the item to clap.  This bothers me too.

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I teach piano, and I ask that all my students stay until the very end-and don't do any form of awards/gifts/recognition until then. 

 

Having said that, for my December recital this year, it ended up on the same day as the Christmas parade. And one of my kids had to March in the parade-and her coach told them, the Weds before, to be there by 2:00. While the recital would be over by 2:30, she couldn't be in two places at the same time. So, I rearranged, she played in her dance team uniform, and then she and her mom slipped out a side door. Everyone else stayed. I teach ages 3 and up, so I make sure my recitals aren't too long, and we actively work on performance behavior in the weeks prior. My students sit together, and older kids are buddies for younger ones who share interests or outside activities, so that helps-it is hard for a parent to pull a kid and leave. 

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5 hours ago, CuriousMomof3 said:


I feel like sports are completely different. 
 

My son plays baseball.  Two games a week, three seasons a year.  That’s a lot of baseball.  I don’t think twice about taking my younger kid to nearby playground and asking a friend to text me if he got off the bench so I could rush back, or leaving half way through for a younger sibling’s bedtime.  because 80 games is a lot of time!  Same kid does band and choir and musical theater, and unless you count church that’s like 10 shows a year combined.

Plus the point of the concert is the audience.  The point of the race is the time or the win.

I think teammates should stay, and coaches on all the teams should stay to see that last swimmer, but I also know as the aunt of a high school runner, a meet can last 8 hours.  I couldn’t do that week after week.

I don't think sports are *completely* different.  Maybe one can't go to every game but stay at the game you do attend, kwim? (Of course barring other needs)

In even professional sports home field advantage is a thing and the crowd being on your side matters.  Being cheered on can improve one's time or help a team win.

Again, not saying attend 80 games but the crowd does matter in sports.

Edited by happi duck
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7 hours ago, itsheresomewhere said:

I asked these moms and no they had no where to go.  They actually said why would we stay and watch kids who are not our own. 
 

 

That is just so selfish, mean, and ugly. Hope they are raising kind children who think about others. 

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10 hours ago, katilac said:

I think lots of kids would be bothered by a constantly shrinking audience that amounted to their family and a bunch of empty chairs by the time they performed. Very anticlimactic, no thunderous applause, and could have performed for mom and dad in the living room, lol. 

By all means, leave with crying babies. However, if you have the ability to stay for an expensive performance, you likewise have the ability to stay for a free or cheap performance. (general you, not YOU)

Yep, my kids would have felt horrible if the audience kept getting smaller and smaller as they were performing.  They can perform for their family at home in their living room!

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Maybe there have always been people like this at performances, but I think it's getting worse.  Our good friends are music/drama teachers at the local middle school and high school.  They've said that this rarely happened 30 years ago when they began teaching, but in the past 5-10 years, it's really changed.  I suppose it's all part of our me/my family-centered culture...  Although I think there are other things contributing too.

I think it's even good to teach younger children to stay and watch.  (Obviously not babies and toddlers who can't sit still or are noisy.)  It helps teach patience and not always putting yourself and your needs first.

 

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I would stay. I even go to recitals now to support friends who are either teaching or have kids performing since I care about them. I would be very disruptive to have people constantly leaving. I can't imagine that short of a disruptive child or illness or other emergency.

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11 hours ago, beckyjo said:

I am a dinosaur as well. We stay. We sat through a 3 1/2 hour recital for my middle DD one time; I don't know what the teacher was thinking. I honestly thought it was going to go on for days. There seemed no end to the parade of children playing piano both badly and well. Just child after child after child...

 

And I thought DH and I had the recital record😊 We sat through 2 1/2 hours of a violin, harp and piano recital. When my daughters started their music lessons, we were told that it was required to stay for the whole recital, few exceptions. Youngest daughter once had a violin teacher who told each of the students’ parents that unless they could stay for the complete recital, she wouldn’t scheduled them to play. She was known to drop students whose parents didn’t abide by her rule.
 

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