doing a 180 on opinions about some topics

[hornblower]

I was mulling some culture wars type topics and reading a different message board & I realized I've read essentially some of those same exact posts here, over the years. So that's not surprising, we've hashed out pretty much everything here over the years. But what did make me chuckle is that I've flipped sides. I'm reading posts which I could have written years ago & now I'm muttering "oh no, so much no"

I know people say there's a general tendency to grow more conservative but when I take political compass tests I still tend to score pretty far left. However, there are a couple issues which I've done a total 180 on & they align me with what is often called 'conservative' values. And you know what, I strongly suspect someone, (or more probably a group of someones) on this board was responsible for changing my mind. 

So never wonder if you're just wasting your time here lol. Sometimes, somebody will read your posts and argue about it till they get temporarily banned for snark and will roll their eyes at you and lecture you and then.... a few years later, they might say 'You were right all along. You were so RIGHT. Also? I was so obnoxious.'

What about you - have you done a 180 on any subjects? How has it been finding that you're suddenly boxed into a different 'tribe' than where you think you belong? 
 

[RootAnn]

Not political, but I used to be such a snob about retaking math in college (and sometimes paying to do so) when you'd already done it in high school. But, my own DD just took Calc 1 even though she took AP Calc in high school. It was totally her decision, and while AP Calc cost me, her college Calc didn't because of her scholarship. She doesn't regret the better foundation she has now or the friends & study group she has. I'm now converted to, "let the kid decide."

Also, I used to say that my kids would be on their own to pay for college. The Hive helped me open my eyes to the reality of college costs early enough so I could help my first kid find scholarships. Second will have a different route but I'm no longer of the same mind I used to be about how if I did it, they can too.

[MercyA]

Oh, heck, yes, and the Hive definitely contributed to some of those changes. ❤️

Political conservative to apolitical (with some views that would be considered ultra-conservative and others that would be considered ultra-liberal)

Literal 7-day creationist to Old Earth creationist to possible evolutionary creationist

No understanding of victim blaming to greater understanding

Flag waver to Pledge abstainer

No understanding of systematic racism to greater understanding (still have a long way to go)

Mocker of vegetarians to animal rights proponent

There are probably more but I should get to bed soon!

People often assume I share their views when I most certainly don't. In the past I've often wanted to charge full throttle into debate--surely if people have all the information, they'll change their minds, right? 😉I've been trying to do as my wise husband recommends and gently make comments here and there. People need time and space to mull things over or their cognitive dissonance throws up barriers. (And I'm sure mine still does, too, on some topics! It's good to remember that we never have anything to fear from Truth.)

Edited January 5, 2020 by MercyA

[Scarlett]

4 minutes ago, MercyA said:

Oh, heck, yes, and the Hive definitely contributed to some of those changes. ❤️

Political conservative to apolitical (with some views that would be considered ultra-conservative and others that would be considered ultra-liberal)

Literal 7-day creationist to Old Earth creationist to possible evolutionary creationist

No understanding of victim blaming to greater understanding

Flag waver to Pledge abstainer

No understanding of systematic racism to greater understanding (still have a long way to go)

Mocker of vegetarians to animal rights proponent

There are probably more but I should get to bed soon!

People often assume I share their views when I most certainly don't. In the past I've often wanted to charge full throttle into debate--surely if people have all the information, they'll change their minds, right? 😉I've been trying to do as my wise husband recommends and gently make comments here and there. People need time and space to mull things over or their cognitive dissonance throws up barriers. (And I'm sure mine still does, too, on some topics! It's good to remember that we never have anything to fear from Truth.)

Very interesting....

[klmama]

I've changed my opinion on many issues in the past 25 years.  I don't usually think about it, but I realized how much I'd changed when I visited relatives recently who haven't changed.  I bit my tongue a lot so that our time together could be pleasant.  

[Reefgazer]

3 hours ago, hornblower said:

I was mulling some culture wars type topics and reading a different message board & I realized I've read essentially some of those same exact posts here, over the years. So that's not surprising, we've hashed out pretty much everything here over the years. But what did make me chuckle is that I've flipped sides. I'm reading posts which I could have written years ago & now I'm muttering "oh no, so much no"

I know people say there's a general tendency to grow more conservative but when I take political compass tests I still tend to score pretty far left. However, there are a couple issues which I've done a total 180 on & they align me with what is often called 'conservative' values. And you know what, I strongly suspect someone, (or more probably a group of someones) on this board was responsible for changing my mind. 

So never wonder if you're just wasting your time here lol. Sometimes, somebody will read your posts and argue about it till they get temporarily banned for snark and will roll their eyes at you and lecture you and then.... a few years later, they might say 'You were right all along. You were so RIGHT. Also? I was so obnoxious.'

What about you - have you done a 180 on any subjects? How has it been finding that you're suddenly boxed into a different 'tribe' than where you think you belong? 
 

I have done a 180 on enough subjects that I now vote for the opposite political party than I used to.  It was a gradual progression, though, and I think it had something to do with my own worldview changing and something to do with the other side of the coin moving further off in their own direction (which just pushed me further in the ppposite direction).

[kiwik]

Not really.  I am a bit more relaxed in some areas and a bit less tolerant in others.

[Carrie12345]

I can’t think of any complete 180s that I’ve done, but my perspectives have certainly become much more nuanced over the years, so my angles are always adjusting, lol.  The significance of some things has increased for me, while other stuff just doesn’t seem as important anymore. 

I think “opinion” and “perspective” (and maybe that’s not even the best specific term) are two different things, though. As a tame example, brownies are, imo, THE best dessert.  I’ve had some disappointing brownies, though. Not many, but enough to realize not every brownie is going to meet my expectations. If there’s a crummy brownie and an amazing donut next to each other, I can’t deny that the donut is better at that moment.  But I’m still going to wish I had a good brownie instead of a good donut.  My general opinion and experience/perspective combine to make my dessert choices.

[Bluegoat]

Yes, I've changed my mind pretty significantly over the years on various things.  Some in one direction and sometimes in the other. In some cases it comes from seeing situations play out more clearly, or being able to make a more holistic sort of analysis. In some instances over the last few years I've looked back at issues where there were warnings that they would lead to some problem, which I dismissed, and now I see that in some wys they were very much correct, or even wholly correct. I have a much better sense of how one idea connects to others and also how, over time, people and society change.

I've become much more suspicious of claims that a particular viewpoint is pro-woman, or anti-racist, or whatever. 

Some that I can think of that are fairly recent and less hot-button - at one time I was very big on switching to a proportional representation electoral system, and now I am much less sure it matters and may even be a bad idea.  I also for a time was fairly supportive of UBI and I am now not so sure it's a good idea.

Edited January 5, 2020 by Bluegoat

[ktgrok]

oh yes! 

And I don't know if it is the red in my hair or being an Aries, or what, lol, but I tend to go whole hog on whatever I think is right so it sure is a huge shift when I change my mind, lol.

But an easy one is that I was a vegetarian for 10 years, vegan for 2 years, and started and led the animal rights group on campus, etc - even showing films at my house on the evils of eating meat. And yet later in life was not only a meat eater but stuck to a mostly Paleo style diet! Then I was just as enthusiastic over the benefits of saturated fat, eating high fat diets, lots of meat, etc and grains being total evil. 

now? meh. Fairly sure any diet that doesn't include processed foods is probably good fo you - eat what makes you feel good as long as it isn't twinkies. (and despite still feeling a paleo-is diet might be best, I have zero plans to give up my splenda and diet soda because I recognize my addition and do not have the mental bandwidth to go through the detox anytime soon. At this point I'll accept the addiction as the lesser of the evils. So not only switching opinions one way and then the other but a hypocrite too, lol)

I was very anti-homeschooling. I'm now in my....9th year I think? 10th? I don't even know. I was against cloth diapering and then very pro cloth diapering and then a "just keep the poop off my clothes" diapered - don't care if it is a banana leaf or space age plastic. 

Very much a "must do classical education/memorization" person and now am leaning WAY WAY WAY into unschooling (which is realistically more like what I've done in reality anyway). 

Oh - SUPER DUPER against divorce! Not me - you make vows you keep them! You don't walk away - you fix it! Until I left my gaslighting husband so that my kid, who was being emotionally and physically neglected could grow up in a more healthy atmosphere. At the time I even justified that by saying if it was just me I wouldn't have left, I only did it for my son - he didn't make vows! But with a lot more life behind me I see that no one deserves that - and that not only was divorce a saving grace for me and my son but my ex husband was happier in the long run as well. People who are mismatched do not do each other favors to stay together - but I also know that divorce is way too often the only option people think they have, and am a HUGE proponent of marital counseling both pre and post marriage. And not the typical marriage counseling BS - something heavy on communication skills. Because even if you divorce you want to fix your sh#t before moving on to another relationship. 

Oh - and i was TOTALLY against remarriage if someone did get divorced! You should focus on your kid, not a man. You could expose your kid to a molestor, etc. Except 6 months after leaving my husband I met my now DH and he has been nothing but 100 percent positive for my son. He gave him a male role model to look up to, a safe place to live, someone to go to cub scouts with, etc etc. And most of all my son got to see what a healthy marriage looks like. Had I not remarried he would not have seen that. 

Politically I've changed the least. My family of origin and I still agree nearly totally on politics. But, at one point I was very much a "you have to earn my vote and the lesser of two evils is still evil so  I'll vote 3rd party if you don't" win me over person, and now I'm a "the lesser of two evils is better than the greater of two evils" person - less evil is always better than more. 

I've also been part of many varieties of church - from protestant to Catholic and back(ish). But my beliefs haven't changed during that, not really. I've just at various times weighed different things differently. 

So I've definitely changed opinions enough to realize that I don't know it all. I've made mistakes in the past, and therefore it is easier to have compassion for those that I think are making a mistake. 

[....]

I'm definitely someone who went from "the most liberal person in the world" (that would've been my description of myself in college) to pretty conservative.  That's just been from decades of dealing with people and all of the experiences I've had.  

I've also become VERY anti-technology, anti-screens, anti-social media.....after years of watching its effects on people.  It's addictive, it ruins relationships, it causes developmental problems in our kids, it keeps people from making eye contact with their kids, it keeps people from having meaningful conversations, anytime screens are used in education - it makes the learning a bunch of shallow junk, it prevents people's brains from taking a break to look out a window....I mean, I could go on and on. 

I appreciate all things minimalism - keeping things as simple as possible - doing things intentionally - enjoying the moment.....keeping our possessions in the house at a minimum....being careful with our time.  Everyone around me is just nuts.  Both parents work 60 hours a week...the kids are constantly on screens....constantly screaming.....they're always buying junk/demanding junk....rushing everywhere...NO ONE is healthy....  I'm just disturbed by what I see around me (and I live in a huge city, so that might be skewing my perceptions, too). 

I've written off the government as useless and I think we need to go back to fixing/running things as a community.  Our family does an enormous amount of volunteer work.  So, I'm around groups of people who basically spend their lives working for free to make the community around us better.  It's amazing and it really has changed the way I see our area and it's introduced me to this entire subculture of people who are volunteering because they care about someone besides themselves.  And they are more effective than our local government.

I'm done with the anonymous herd mentality when I'm out in public (and keep in mind I'm in a huge city).  Most people just walk on past when someone needs help.  They cut in lines...they're ignorant and rude to customer service people.  I stop and help older people reach the eggs out of the cooler at the grocery store...or help the lady down the street change her tire...I hold open doors for people...  I'm tired of rudeness and people acting like anonymous herd animals.  

I started doing in-depth Bible reading/Bible studies.  Yeah, ten years ago, I would've told you that was weird.  I'm in the process right now of reading the Bible from cover to cover, slowly, over the year.  I've also become less enthusiastic about organized churches, ironically.  I'm interested in the idea of informal home churches.

I also worry more about younger people, our very unbalanced society, current events, etc.  No kid should have to go to school and worry about a school shooter.  You should be able to take your family to Walmart or church or post office and not have to worry about some mentally-unhinged lunatic attacking the building like in a Bruce Willis movie.  Just....sigh....

[ktgrok]

16 minutes ago, Evanthe said:

anytime screens are used in education - it makes the learning a bunch of shallow junk, 

1. you are crying screens and social media while on social media 🙂  That said, i agree with most of what you say here, but not this one part. My DD has dyslexia - she learns incredibly well from documentaries and videos - and just because a screen is used to deliver that information does not make it shallow junk. 

[....]

37 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

1. you are crying screens and social media while on social media 🙂  That said, i agree with most of what you say here, but not this one part. My DD has dyslexia - she learns incredibly well from documentaries and videos - and just because a screen is used to deliver that information does not make it shallow junk. 

 

I'm not saying we can't ever use it and we have to live like it's 1827.  Have you read Glow Kids?  THAT'S what I'm talking about.  Not your dyslexic kid watching a video.  

And look around at people the next time you're at a restaurant. Everyone is constantly on their phones.  Psychologists are starting to write articles about what parents being on their phones is having on our kids - like they're not making eye contact with their toddlers/babies - stuff like that.

[Pawz4me]

1 hour ago, happysmileylady said:

There are very few things I have done a 180 on.  But, I am not generally a "hard core" sort of person.  You wouldn't have found me at any sorts of protests or rallies back in my 20s, and you still won't find me there.  I generally wasn't ever the type of person who held negative thoughts/opinions about those with a different opinion/belief than mine.  

Katie mentioned homeschooling and cloth diapers as things she's done a 180 on and those are probably the closest things.  When DD11 was born, I was very anti cloth diapers for my house.  I figured that I had to deal with enough baby grossness, I didn't want to add even more washing.  By the time DD9 was born, I realized that I was dealing with so much baby grossness that adding a load or two of gross diapers wasn't really changing anything lol.  (I was never anti cloth diapers in general though, I figured people could use whatever diapers they wanted.)  

And homeschooling, I never wanted to homeschool, but when I realized that I was having to do it ANYWAY, because the school wasn't teaching my kid, I brought her home.  

This is pretty much me. One of my blessings/curses in life is that I almost always see some amount of gray--and often huge areas of it--when others tend to see either all black or all white. I don't do extremes much.

One thing that I have totally changed my mind on is inside only cats. I used to be feel 100 percent sure that all  pet cats should be kept inside all the time. I now think that cats who have large yards/acreage/live in an area where vehicles or predators aren't huge risks are probably much more mentally healthy and have significantly happier lives if they're allowed outside at least a little. And if we ever get another cat, I'm willing to risk it having a shorter life in exchange for a happier one.

When I was a young adult I identified as a moderate of one political party. Eventually I changed my registration to independent/unaffiliated, but now I almost always agree most with the moderates of the other party. But my previous party has gone totally off the rails bonkers (IMO) in the past couple of decades, and the last few years especially, so I think my change is more on them than me.

[ktgrok]

1 hour ago, Evanthe said:

 

I'm not saying we can't ever use it and we have to live like it's 1827.  Have you read Glow Kids?  THAT'S what I'm talking about.  Not your dyslexic kid watching a video.  

And look around at people the next time you're at a restaurant. Everyone is constantly on their phones.  Psychologists are starting to write articles about what parents being on their phones is having on our kids - like they're not making eye contact with their toddlers/babies - stuff like that.

Gotcha! That I totally agree with. In fact I just put time limits on my phone social media apps - they no longer allow access from 9am-5pm M-F and I'm going to do the same with my laptop. 

Just wanted to clarify that not all screen usage is bad, but they ARE addictive. 

7 minutes ago, Pawz4me said:

This is pretty much me. One of my blessings/curses in life is that I almost always see some amount of gray--and often huge areas of it--when others tend to see either all black or all white. I don't do extremes much.

One thing that I have totally changed my mind on is inside only cats. I used to be feel 100 percent sure that all  pet cats should be kept inside all the time. I now think that cats who have large yards/acreage/live in an area where vehicles or predators aren't huge risks are probably much more mentally healthy and have significantly happier lives if they're allowed outside at least a little. And if we ever get another cat, I'm willing to risk it having a shorter life in exchange for a happier one.

When I was a young adult I identified as a moderate of one political party. Eventually I changed my registration to independent/unaffiliated, but now I almost always agree most with the moderates of the other party. But my previous party has gone totally off the rails bonkers (IMO) in the past couple of decades, and the last few years especially, so I think my change is more on them than me.

Oh - me too on the cats! I was the same, and then adopted a former stray that was 100 percent miserable inside only. Would injure himself, cry all the time, etc. We finally started letting him out. He did get into a fight once I had to patch up (knew how to treat accesses at home and worked at a vet to get antibiotics cheaply) and he did end up disappearing eventually. I hate that, but there was no other good alternative for him. 

My current cats are indoor only and one is horribly fat. (the one that isn't probably has cancer and is thin for that reason - he was fat at one time). I know that wouldn't be true if they went outdoors, but this neighborhood is not kind to cats. If I had it to do over again we'd put up a cat fence on the backyard fence. Still thinking about building some kind of "Catio" but the fat one is a scaredy cat - not sure he'd go for it. The other was a former stray - he has run off a few times, was gone for a full month once! 

I'd love an outdoor area that was safe for them. 

Maybe that's our winter project..hmmmm......

[teachermom2834]

I have become way less rigid with age. While I still am pretty conservative it is much softer and more empathetic to the context of people's lives. While I guess I haven't truly changed the core of most of what I believe and where I stand, I am much more understanding of other opinions. I have gone from being a very all or nothing/ black or white thinker to seeing huge grey areas in almost everything. 

I've gone from "are you nuts? how can you think THAT?' to " yeah, I disagree with you but I totally get where you are coming from."

 

[Farrar]

Yeah. It's always been a gradual evolution, but then at some point you realize, oh, I now have a totally different position on this than a decade ago.

I definitely had a lot of positions in education that have radically changed since I first started working in education and got my masters, more than two decades ago. Some of that is new thinking and research, some of it is personal experience, some of it is just a philosophical shift. Like, I never would have believed that I'd be somewhere advocating for hardcore phonics or copywork or content based approaches in elementary school.

Politically, I've always been liberal leaning, but there are a lot of issues that I used to have different views on within that huge overarching spectrum.

Food has been a huge shift for me in my life because I used to be so picky. Now I'm a bit picky compared to other adults, but not that bad. Certainly not as limited as I was as a teen. And I was a vegetarian for many years and now I'm not.

It's funny that some people are talking also about whether you're more or less rigid about your views. I know I'm way less rigid about a lot of things - especially in parenting, education, relationships, religion, sports... everyday life stuff. And stuff that I don't think there's a clear solution for... like, is there some singular way that we're going to solve nuclear crises or economic inequality or peace in the Middle East or something? Like, I have no clue. So I'm way less rigid about that sort of big, open ended, no clear solution kind of thing than I was in my youth, when I often had positions that were like, this way will fix it. On the other hand, there are other political issues that I'm more rigid about, where I just feel worn down about it and am like done trying to see the other side.

[Farrar]

Thinking more... one thing I've found is that in my youth I was much more ideologically motivated in my thinking across the board. I still feel ideology is important, but I'm much more solution motivated. Like, a solution that works but doesn't arise from an ideology that I'm tied to or attracted to is something I'm all for now, whereas in my youth I wouldn't have been willing to consider, because the ideology was supreme to me. I'm not saying that anything that works goes - there has to be some ethical line that matters. And I feel this with personal things - like if paying to fix something that you shouldn't have to pay for will fix it, then fine. Or if bribing a toddler with a lolly gets them to make it through a tough situation, then do it. And I feel it with big political things - like, from an ideological standpoint, I don't think we should be forced to pay for bags if the store wants to give them to us. But taxing the bags changes behavior and helps the environment, possibly immeasurably, so I can't get fussed anymore. There's a line... bribing a kid with candy every day for everything is obviously a losing solution. Regulating every piece of behavior that way would go too far. But I'm less tied to the ideology of, say, never giving rewards in parenting or allowing businesses as much freedom to do as they wish.

[hornblower]

8 hours ago, StellaM said:

@hornblower, now I'm so curious to know what your 180's have been! (You don't have to indulge me!!)

You'll recognize one of mine.  Reconnected and reexamined my feminism and ended up on the radical exclusionary side. 
The other big one is around race and how we frame race discussions in North America/the West.

They're not a secret but I didn't put them in right from the start because you can't really talk about them without opening a can of worms. 

More broadly, my shift is partly a result of my dismay with postmodernism which underpins so much of today's social justice movement. 

I like to think my evolution on these and other topics is a part of seeing more nuance and grey but who knows, maybe I'm deluding myself and I've just gone old and crotchety. 

Another one I'm sitting with and still mulling is abortion. Our clinical instructor in the first semester had us think about what procedures we would and would not participate in (nurses can excuse themselves from procedures so long as another nurse is found to take our place. We cannot abandon a patient). Canada has legal medically assisted dying here so that was on the list, plus abortion, male circumcisions and some other procedures. The medical assistance in dying is the only thing I ticked yes, I can be there.

[Anne]

The main reason I am still on these boards is the (mostly!) thoughtful discussions we have on so many topics. I am grateful for the opportunity to see things from other people’s vastly different perspectives.   While I don’t think any of my opinions have done a 180, I am much more understanding than I used to be.

 

Anne

[maize]

I can't think of any 180's, though there are certainly lots of things I have simply learned more about so they've become either clearer or more nuanced in my mind.

I don't generally have black and white opinions, so I feel like there isn't a 180 to do. There are a few things I think are really important/high in value and my opinion on those hasn't changed. Things where, in spite of gray, I see a choice of most benefit/least harm so it's what I am going to argue for if I have a voice in policy etc.

All the human things are so complex and there is so much circumstantial variation.

[catz]

I'm not so sure about 180's but I have continuously less black and white in my thinking over many years.  I don't make snap judgements like I might have when I was younger.  I don't assume what works for me is going to work for you or vice versa. In terms of diet, education, lifestyle, finances, parenting, etc etc etc.  I was a vegetarian in my 20's but was constantly anemic.  I feel healthier and actually eat better as an omnivore.  I was never a militant vegetarian though.  

[catz]

3 hours ago, Evanthe said:

 

I've written off the government as useless and I think we need to go back to fixing/running things as a community.  Our family does an enormous amount of volunteer work.  So, I'm around groups of people who basically spend their lives working for free to make the community around us better.  It's amazing and it really has changed the way I see our area and it's introduced me to this entire subculture of people who are volunteering because they care about someone besides themselves.  And they are more effective than our local government.

 

This is interesting.  I do a huge number of volunteer hours and we volunteer as a family too.  But I actually consider it some level of financial privilege to be able to donate as much time as I do (which ranges probably from 10-40 hours a week depending on season).  I also couldn't do what I do without my educational background in some roles I've done.  So though I obviously strongly support volunteering.  I also strongly support people making a living wage for working and I think relying too much on grass root volunteer efforts doesn't necessarily work for some things. 

[maggie18]

Very much so. Went from a conservative, born again, fundamentalist Christian homeschooling parent to an agnostic who is learning about Religious Trauma Syndrome and spiritual abuse. Went from believing in women submitting to their husbands to being anti patriarchy and a feminist.  Went from a die hard "children must obey the first time or you should spank them because the Bible says so" to being against spanking and informed about trauma. Went from liking Trump to very much disliking Trump.  Went from being against homeschool regulations to being for them.  Went from going to church and Bible studies to having zero desire to ever enter a church again for any reason, and horrified at the number of pastors and church leaders who have been caught ( and many more who have not been caught) sexually abusing children and advising women who are in abusive relationships to just "submit more."  Went from being someone who was a black and white thinker to a person who thinks for myself and sees all the shades of gray.

[Pen]

11 hours ago, StellaM said:

I might flip on nuclear. 

I'd forgotten that one. Marched in the 80's against nuclear power, now feeling somewhat persuaded ? that it might help us out of climate difficulties in some places ? Let's call that one a 45 degree shift 🙂

 

Could I help you to shift back to anti-nuclear? 🤔

the likelihood of disaster is small, but when there are disasters the damage is huge.  We still haven’t seen the end of Fukushima.  Or for that matter Chernobyl as the containment goes bad.  

As Albert Einstein reportedly said, maybe apocryphal, it’s a helluva way to boil water.   

—————-

Ive had a bunch of changes of view, not sure in my case 180 deg either, but substantial and sometimes WTM has had influence in that

[Hyacinth]

Like others, I haven’t necessarily reversed opinions, but I do hold them more loosely. It’s one of the benefits of age, I suppose. With a fair amount of life in the rearview mirror, I can look back and see how my attitudes and beliefs have shifted. So if I was wrong then, I can just as easily be wrong now. 

This board has been an absolute treasure over the years. Nowhere in my IRL circles would I have been exposed to the range of life experiences, interesting points of view, and thoughtful arguments that I’ve read here. I believe I’m a more compassionate and open-minded person because of the conversations here. 

[Katy]

I reversed a lot when I was young.  The more I learn the more I see everything in shades of gray.  I guess I'm probably more exactly the same centrist I always was, but the labels I would use for myself have changed.

[livetoread]

My 180s I can think of off the top of my head are homeschooling from no to total cheerleader (then to it has its pluses and minuses), and religion from Christian to nonbeliever. Otherwise, my views have softened and shifted some, but nothing drastically changed. Though I lean left in my politics, and always have, I appreciate more now the important role true conservatism plays in harnessing and slowing down the more revolutionary impulses out there. I am conservative in personality (low risk taking, prudent with money, etc) even though my views are left, so I guess I’d like things to slowly, carefully, and prudently shift somewhat left, haha. I used to be more impatient at the rate of change and more oblivious to the risks. I guess I’ve become more aware of how unfair our society is as I’ve aged, but also more aware of how much worse it could get.

[....]

1 hour ago, FuzzyCatz said:

This is interesting.  I do a huge number of volunteer hours and we volunteer as a family too.  But I actually consider it some level of financial privilege to be able to donate as much time as I do (which ranges probably from 10-40 hours a week depending on season).  I also couldn't do what I do without my educational background in some roles I've done.  So though I obviously strongly support volunteering.  I also strongly support people making a living wage for working and I think relying too much on grass root volunteer efforts doesn't necessarily work for some things. 

 

Most of the people who volunteer with us are very low income (just a shot in the dark - I'm going to say maybe 70%).  Our family is heavily involved with an animal rescue and some of the volunteers actually live on the property (they don't have their own place to live).  There have been people who were homeless who lived/volunteered/worked on property.  It's definitely not upper income people.

A LOT of older people, too - wherever we volunteer.  My teens are always the only teens.  Heck, even I'm always one of the youngest....

[....]

36 minutes ago, Katy said:

I reversed a lot when I was young.  The more I learn the more I see everything in shades of gray.  I guess I'm probably more exactly the same centrist I always was, but the labels I would use for myself have changed.

 

I wonder if 10 years from now, we'll do 180s on our 180s.  Lol

[Farrar]

1 hour ago, Pen said:

 

Could I help you to shift back to anti-nuclear? 🤔

the likelihood of disaster is small, but when there are disasters the damage is huge.  We still haven’t seen the end of Fukushima.  Or for that matter Chernobyl as the containment goes bad.  

As Albert Einstein reportedly said, maybe apocryphal, it’s a helluva way to boil water.   

Oh, nuclear. I didn't have a strong position when I was younger (I'm a teense too young to have come up protesting it in the 80's or anything). But at some point, I was swayed to be relatively strongly pro-nuclear power. But now I may 180 on that. Climate change has made a lot of options for safe positions and storage a lot less secure. And government infrastructures are doing a terrible job with the waste. I think in a much more ideal world with better stability and better allocation of resources and so forth, it might still be worth the risks. But in this world, with all that's going on? Maybe not.

[....]

3 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

Gotcha! That I totally agree with. In fact I just put time limits on my phone social media apps - they no longer allow access from 9am-5pm M-F and I'm going to do the same with my laptop. 

Just wanted to clarify that not all screen usage is bad, but they ARE addictive. 

 

Oh my goodness...we've had/witnessed so many bad experiences now with screens/social media.

One of the boys in our extended family is actually failing Kindergarten because of a screen addiction.  *sigh*   It's just unbelievable....and the parents are really trying, but it's a mess.  

One of my teens was bullied by a group of teenagers (from a CHURCH- of all places, people!?!) on a group chat.  It became so serious that I noticed behavior changes and my teen started showing signs of depression.  It took way too long for me to get to the bottom of it and figure out what exactly was happening.  Ugh.

I went out to check our mail a couple of weeks ago and my neighbor's big screen TV was sitting out at the trash.  The screen was just smashed.  I saw the neighbor's kid outside and I asked 'dude, what happened to your TV?'  Well, apparently.....the boys next door were playing Fortnite (not even sure if that's how it's spelled)...they were supposed to be taking turns and the kid who had the controller didn't want to take turns.  A huge physical brawl broke out in their living room and the kid with the controller decided that if he couldn't play, NO ONE could.  So, he ran over to the TV and smashed the screen to pieces.  YEP.  

What the heck??  

 

[Farrar]

17 minutes ago, Evanthe said:

 

Most of the people who volunteer with us are very low income (just a shot in the dark - I'm going to say maybe 70%).  Our family is heavily involved with an animal rescue and some of the volunteers actually live on the property (they don't have their own place to live).  There have been people who were homeless who lived/volunteered/worked on property.  It's definitely not upper income people.

A LOT of older people, too - wherever we volunteer.  My teens are always the only teens.  Heck, even I'm always one of the youngest....

This is probably really localized... around here, my experience volunteering is that there are a lot relatively well off people volunteering. Also a good number teens - but teens are required to have community service hours to graduate. And a lot of college students in organized groups. When I see lower income people in nonprofits - which I often do - they often have jobs there. When we have done soup kitchen volunteering and food pantry volunteering, it's almost all groups (corporate groups and grad school groups). When I've done other things - like farmer's markets or a tutoring thing - it's almost all young, professional, white people. Like, the tutoring place where I used to volunteer clearly recruited people who were young and held, like, mixers and stuff for them. It was a vibe I've heard are at some other nonprofits around me. The cultural volunteer stuff is nearly all elderly rich people in my experience.

Edited January 5, 2020 by Farrar

[NorthwestMom]

I strongly believe that intelligent people should always be open to new information, wisdom gained via personal or vicarious experiences, and scientific progress and change their thinking to include all new information (even if it doesn't ultimately change their position). I reserve the right to change my mind at any time!  If we don't change we fossilize.

[MercyA]

15 hours ago, Scarlett said:

Very interesting....

I still almost always agree with you. 😉 

[Scarlett]

3 minutes ago, MercyA said:

I still almost always agree with you. 😉 

Ditto!

[Pen]

1 hour ago, StellaM said:

 

I'm not wedded. Long way to go to 180.

But I do live somewhere utterly wedded to coal, and don't know whether nuclear might be more palatable to those who are deep in the pockets of the coal industry in a way renewables just aren't.

I feel like coal is causing immense damage too.  It's probably a sign of desperation with my country's politics that I'm even thinking about nuclear.

 

I agree that coal is bad.  

Could people try wind, ocean waves, sun etc?   I have never been to Australia but imagine it to have potential for these other energy options

 

[Pen]

3 hours ago, Farrar said:

Oh, nuclear. I didn't have a strong position when I was younger (I'm a teense too young to have come up protesting it in the 80's or anything). But at some point, I was swayed to be relatively strongly pro-nuclear power. But now I may 180 on that. Climate change has made a lot of options for safe positions and storage a lot less secure. And government infrastructures are doing a terrible job with the waste. I think in a much more ideal world with better stability and better allocation of resources and so forth, it might still be worth the risks. But in this world, with all that's going on? Maybe not.

 

The areas likely to be inundated with water if climate change makes sea levels rise as per predictions is very scary for the safety of reactors and nuclear waste storage.

There are also hydrocarbon and chemical plants etc near seal level.

There’s already some big Pacific Ocean problem going on.  Some people think part of it may be nuclear related

[catz]

3 hours ago, Evanthe said:

 

Most of the people who volunteer with us are very low income (just a shot in the dark - I'm going to say maybe 70%).  Our family is heavily involved with an animal rescue and some of the volunteers actually live on the property (they don't have their own place to live).  There have been people who were homeless who lived/volunteered/worked on property.  It's definitely not upper income people.

A LOT of older people, too - wherever we volunteer.  My teens are always the only teens.  Heck, even I'm always one of the youngest....

Well, if people that are literally homeless are volunteering in exchange for housing, wouldn't it be a positive thing that these people could plug that into a living wage job?  I think our society/economy is a bit broken at the  moment. Again, I think volunteering is a fantastic thing. But I think society takes advantage.  My volunteer roles this winter could literally be a full time administrative position requiring a college degree. 

It is most definitely the opposite situation for the most places I volunteer.  The wealthiest are often donating the most hours.   Anyway - sorry to get off topic.

[Guest]

20 hours ago, hornblower said:

So never wonder if you're just wasting your time here lol. Sometimes, somebody will read your posts and argue about it till they get temporarily banned for snark and will roll their eyes at you and lecture you and then.... a few years later, they might say 'You were right all along. You were so RIGHT. Also? I was so obnoxious.'

Totally has SO happened to me. I have flipped on a huge number of things since, say, twenty years ago. I even changed my political affiliation because...well, obviously. I have moved farther left, though I’m still more centrist than anything. 

 

[Garga]

Eight years ago, I wrote lengthly blog posts every day.  They were funny and lighthearted...but I cringe now when I read a lot of them.  I was careful on The Blog not to get too serious or talk about politics or religion, but there were still some rough edges showing. 

It was immediately after The Blog that I made some new friends: kind, empathetic people.  And I went from being someone who valued wit and humor above all else, to realizing that the gentle people of the world have a lot to teach me.  I feel like I’m just now at age 47 starting to become the person I should have been all along.  I have changed so much throughout my life, especially from my late twenties until now.

As far as 180s, I’m sure there are a number of things I can’t remember, but here’s what I can remember off the top of my head:

1. Homosexuals were bad, sinful people. 180: Don’t believe that anymore. At all. At all.

2. Earth was created less than 10,00 years ago.  180: Now I believe in evolutionary creation.  The earth is billions of years old.  (Now granted, I have zero memories in school of being taught anything about the age of the earth or about evolution. I honestly believed that the earth was only 10,000 or so years old, based on what a pastor at my church said.  And even if the earth was older, I was absolutely sure that homo sapiens had only been around for 10,000 or so years and I thought that the scientific community agreed with that. It was shocking to read a Jean Auel book in my mid-twenties and find out that cave people lived hundreds of thousands of years ago. I read the book pre-internet and was too embarrassed to ask anyone about it, so it took me forever to piece together what science actually says about the earth/humans.)

3. Kids should be controlled and should be able to sit still and be quiet. Before kids, I used to tell my friends that if Amish kids could sit for hours at church on Sunday, then any kid should be able to. (Not sure where I even got that info—for all I know, Amish kids run around at church.). 180: AHDH firstborn demolished that silly notion within 2 weeks of birth.  

4.  It’s appropriate and necessary to spank kids. Total 180 on that. In my heart, I feel like there is always another option if you look carefully enough for it.

5. Was one political party.  Probably had a 90 degree turn on that one.  Now I would consider myself smack in the middle.  Agree with half of one side and half of the other, about 50/50.  

6. There are sooo many things I used to think about marriage that I just don’t think anymore, but they’re sort of personal and I don’t want to get in them here.  My younger self would be shocked to see what life is actually life after 27 years of marriage vs what I believed it should be.

7.  As I said before: wit and humor were the be-all, end-all.  180: wit and humor are nice and fun, but kindness and empathy and gentleness are much, much more important. 

8.  Men are interesting and women can be kinda boring.  180: men are kinda boring and women are much more interesting (in a friendship way, I mean.)

9.  Action movies are the best and dramas are just dumb. 180:  Action movies are meh and I watch them if nothing else is at the theater, but I adore a good drama.  Bonus points if it makes me cry.

I’m sure there’s more, but that’s all I can think of now.  

Edited January 6, 2020 by Garga

[SereneHome]

I haven't read enough of discussions on here to change my mind on anything, but in general, IRL, I can't say that I have done 180 on anything. May be it's the cynic in me, may be bc I very rarely find people who can discuss the subject mater  without using their emotions and anecdotal evidence as  an absolute truth....I don't know. I've become a bit more tolerant of some things and a LOT less tolerant of other things.

[SKL]

Birthday cupcakes in schools.

[SKL]

I haven't done a lot of 180's that I can think of, but I have gained insight into some things that helped define my current views.

[J-rap]

4 hours ago, SKL said:

I haven't done a lot of 180's that I can think of, but I have gained insight into some things that helped define my current views.

I was going to say something similar, except for me, it was more about gaining insight into "gut-feelings" I had, enabling me to better define and accept those feelings as defendable views to hold.

[Momto6inIN]

I have tried over time to seek out inconsistencies and hypocrisies in myself and correct them as I find them. I used to think that everybody did this, but as I age I am finding out that's just not true. Most people are more interested in changing somebody else's mind and justifying their own opinions than they are in self examination and changing their own attitudes and opinions to be more internally consistent. There are still issues I'm vehement and passionate about - and probably also annoying about to people who disagree 😉 but they are all issues I've extensively examined myself about for consistency and done a 180 on as a result.

I don't want to get too far into politics, but one example is that in my youth I was pro choice, pro death penalty, pro assisted suicide/euthanasia, and somewhat of a war hawk. When I became a Christian I had to examine all of those positions in light of what I now professed to believe about Christ and about God's sovereignty over life and did a 180 on all of them and am now passionately pro life (from conception to natural death), anti death penalty, and anti war. Which puts me at odds with both political parties.

There are other examples too, but they all have been a result of me looking at myself for hypocrisy and inconsistency. 

[Sneezyone]

1 hour ago, Momto6inIN said:

I have tried over time to seek out inconsistencies and hypocrisies in myself and correct them as I find them. I used to think that everybody did this, but as I age I am finding out that's just not true. Most people are more interested in changing somebody else's mind and justifying their own opinions than they are in self examination and changing their own attitudes and opinions to be more internally consistent. There are still issues I'm vehement and passionate about - and probably also annoying about to people who disagree 😉 but they are all issues I've extensively examined myself about for consistency and done a 180 on as a result.

I don't want to get too far into politics, but one example is that in my youth I was pro choice, pro death penalty, pro assisted suicide/euthanasia, and somewhat of a war hawk. When I became a Christian I had to examine all of those positions in light of what I now professed to believe about Christ and about God's sovereignty over life and did a 180 on all of them and am now passionately pro life (from conception to natural death), anti death penalty, and anti war. Which puts me at odds with both political parties.

There are other examples too, but they all have been a result of me looking at myself for hypocrisy and inconsistency. 

This is so interesting to me. I took a similar approach but came to different conclusions based on whether someone/something (the state/government) was acting on my behalf. I am pro-individual choice, pro-assisted death but anti-death penalty and war. I drew a line at NOT circumscribing the choices that affect/are initiated by individuals who have every right to be nonbelievers vs govt. actions that are undertaken on my behalf.

Edited January 6, 2020 by Sneezyone

[Lady Florida.]

While not due to The Hive, I did a 180 on several big issues. I always thought of myself as politically liberal and always voted with that U.S. party, but in my 20s I held opinions on some big issues that definitely fell on the conservative side. By the time I hit 30 I had changed my mind on the first two issues and a few years later changed my view on the third. Despite the conventional wisdom I've become more liberal as I age and even now at over 60 I continue to move to the left. I have several friends with similar experiences.

I used to be anti-aborton under any circumstances except to save the life of the mother.  Although I still don't think I could ever have had one myself (though one never really knows unless they're put in that position and I wasn't) I'm 100% pro-choice.

I used to believe I was being open minded by saying that though being gay isn't normal, it's also none of my business. By the time I was 30 I had more contact with people from the LGBTQ community (mostly at work) and realized they were in fact as "normal" as I was. I realized that simply saying it's none of my business didn't make me open minded as I continued to think it was not natural. Though I changed my view 30 years ago, it's only been in the last 10-15 years that I've come to understand even more that there's a spectrum and a variety of gender identity and sexual preference is normal. I can thank my 22 yo son and 30 yo niece for teaching me what their generations understand and what mine didn't.

I used to be for the death penalty. I thought when Ted Bundy was executed I'd be happy, because I knew one of his victims at FSU. His execution though, actually converted me to an anti-death penalty stance. 

On 1/5/2020 at 12:23 AM, MercyA said:

No understanding of systematic racism to greater understanding (still have a long way to go)

Yes, me too. I was always aware of overt racism and against it but I didn't really understand systemic racism, how pervasive it is, or my unwitting role in it as a member of the majority. I'm working to change that.

Edited January 6, 2020 by Lady Florida.

[MercyA]

14 hours ago, Garga said:

7.  As I said before: wit and humor were the be-all, end-all.  180: wit and humor are nice and fun, but kindness and empathy and gentleness are much, much more important. 

Such wise words. Reminds me of this scene from Harvey:

 

Edited January 6, 2020 by MercyA

[MercyA]

1 hour ago, Momto6inIN said:

I have tried over time to seek out inconsistencies and hypocrisies in myself and correct them as I find them. I used to think that everybody did this, but as I age I am finding out that's just not true. Most people are more interested in changing somebody else's mind and justifying their own opinions than they are in self examination and changing their own attitudes and opinions to be more internally consistent. There are still issues I'm vehement and passionate about - and probably also annoying about to people who disagree 😉 but they are all issues I've extensively examined myself about for consistency and done a 180 on as a result.

I don't want to get too far into politics, but one example is that in my youth I was pro choice, pro death penalty, pro assisted suicide/euthanasia, and somewhat of a war hawk. When I became a Christian I had to examine all of those positions in light of what I now professed to believe about Christ and about God's sovereignty over life and did a 180 on all of them and am now passionately pro life (from conception to natural death), anti death penalty, and anti war. Which puts me at odds with both political parties.

There are other examples too, but they all have been a result of me looking at myself for hypocrisy and inconsistency. 

 

Post of the month. Love this. ❤️

Edited January 6, 2020 by MercyA