Low Histamine, Low Gluten Diet

[BusyMom5]

My DH and DD1 both have itchy skin all the time.  We know that part of it is related to eating wheat.  If they eat too much, they get break outs, itchy red patches, ect.  I've talked many times about going wheat or gluten free, but neither wants to give up their foods- desserts, pizza crust, rolls, ect.  This last week another DD has been randomly itchy, most likely from eating too much wheat!  

So, new year, perfect time to stealthily change our diet.  I don't want it to be obvious, I want to slowly weed out the higher gluten and wheat products  and add in low histamine, gluten free foods.  I have tried a few gluten free things, but we didn't like them.  Any good resources, recipies (large family friendly), good substitutes, advice on getting my family on board?  

I'm determined to figure out some good rice recipes- I can do basic rice and add it to meat, but I never know what spices to add, how to make it more of a dish.  Help! 

 

Thank you for any advice!

[Mbelle]

I grew up in a gluten free home because my dad has celiac.  Back then there weren't a lot of options.  We ate cornbread and we swapped out spaghetti noodles and just used plain white rice with the meatsauce over the top.  That was normal for us growing up.

In my home now we are low gluten, unless we have a gluten free guest then we just cook gluten free.

Many times we just eat meals that don't include gluten just because that's not part of the meal.

Now days there are so many good gluten free convenience products.  You will need to experiment to find the ones you like best.   

An easy one for us was frozen waffles.  They aren't totally healthy but they are a good option on the run and they are tasty.  We even prefer the store brand to Van's.  

We use gluten free pasta's.  We are just used to them, but we do like Tinkyada a lot, but others are fine too.

We use rice or potatoes.

I use gluten freen hamburger buns, but other family members don't. 

There is hidden gluten in so many things.  Spice mixes, ice cream etc.  Check labels, becasue ice cream is an easy swap and no one will know or care.

My dad takes his gluten free bread with him when he goes out.  

[LarlaB]

I have Celiac and recently DXd with MCAS (mast Cell activation Syndrome).  MCAS requires a low histamine diet as part of treatment. 

It is MUCH easier to do a GF diet than low histamine.  There are so many substitutions  for wheat- but low histamine is very challenging. there is GF pasta, pizza, bread, desserts- so many options! Walmart has a lot of GF options.  Obviously any processes food isn’t super healthy, quality wise.  But it’s easier than ever to go GF!  You can buy Pamela’s GF flour and make cookies, quick breads, pancakes etc. no will notice. 

I would personally start GF and go for a few weeks or months and then work on low histamine if you need to.  Basics of LH diet:  no leftovers, nothing processed, no dairy, no sugar, no dried spices, limited fruit, no beef or fish and the list goes on and on. There’s no subtle or easy way to do low histamine. It is extremely limited and should only be attempted full on if you have very strong reasons to suspect. I’d look up high histamine foods and maybe just cut back on those first (beef, tomatoes, spinach, bananas, strawberries, cheese, chocolate, yogurt and of course gluten)

[73349]

Some switches:

• Instead of soy sauce, tamari or coconut aminos (I prefer the latter).
• For homemade pizza crust, Bob's Red Mill gf is reasonably convincing.
• For rolls, use tapioca starch to make cheesy bread. It's so good!
• If you're okay with corn, I think it's Barilla that makes a mixed corn and rice pasta, which is very convincing. For a single-ingredient, whole grain option, I use Tinkyada brown rice pasta.
• Siete's almond flour tortillas, while they don't hold together when wet, are pretty good for wraps/burritos.
• There are several brands of chicken nuggets breaded with gf crumbs, or you can buy gf crumbs and make your own.
• Do not believe "gluten-free" claims on General Mills oats products such as Cheerios; they are contaminated with wheat and then mechanically and optically decontaminated, but many people still react to them. I don't buy oat products unless they have third-party certification.

[Soror]

fwiw there is a rash associated w/ Celiac disease, https://celiac.org/about-celiac-disease/related-conditions/dermatitis-herpetiformis/

I'd not want to try anything without a trip to a dermotalogist to make sure it is not actually Celiac because if it is just a low gluten diet is not sufficient and causes a great amount of harm.

And if there is any chance of Celiac you do not want to change the diet because it will alter test results. You can have Celiac without symptoms, without tummy problems, it can manifest a lot of ways.

I'd also not try to do both low histamine and gf at the same time as it is a total PITA and then you would not know which caused the improvement. I have gf for 11 years and did a spell of low histamine, it was not fun!

As far as GF food I agree w/ pp that foods that are naturally gf are the easiest- chili (you have to check beans and seasonings but this is easy to do gf), stew, roasted meat + veggies, ethnic dishes w/ rice or rice noodles. I like BRM 1 to 1 gf mix too but I've not had the real deal in forever so I may be biased. I like Aldi's gf spinach wraps and so do the kids.

[kbutton]

Just a heads up, histamine diets don't all agree! Just noting this as any allergist or person working with you might have a preference about which one to try.

Also, some people have better luck on FODMAP.

If antihistamines do not make them feel better, I would be leery of going low histamine until you have GF tackled first (with celiac testing before doing that!).

[klmama]

I suggest you try to add in good-tasting gluten-free foods BEFORE you test for celiac and start pulling gluten from the diet.  Then, if you do need to remove gluten, there will be a wider selection of welcome foods to fall back on when some favorites are removed.  

ETA:  What foods does your family like now?  It would be easier to know what to recommend if we knew what you all currently eat.

Edited January 2, 2020 by klmama

[wintermom]

Firstly, have you been to a dr to see what is actually the cause of your itchy skin. Self diagnosing is not a great idea. There are numerous reasons for skin conditions, and you risk missing something important if you just go off on your own tangent with a very restrictive diet.

Secondly, isn't histamine naturally occurring in our bodies to act as a defense against things the body sees as a danger? What are you attempting to actually do with this diet? Do you have allergies? Are allergies causing the itchy skin? 

I would be very reluctant to restrict my diet without some kind of recommendation from a medical expert. You can do what you want, personally, but you can't really force anyone to a highly restrictive diet against their will. I don't think you'd be doing the relationship with your dd any good by trying to force this on her without some really sound reasons. 

[BusyMom5]

Sorry, I have been busy.  We have been to Drs. for several years over this-3 different ones at this point- long story short- DD is diagnosed w/ Chronic Hives, overactive histamine response to pretty much anything- cold, heat, contact, swimming, leather car seats, ect.  No actual allergies.  It's weird and hard to explain.  The answer has been to keep her on antihistamines.  No one is interested further testing, there is no gastrointestinal issues such as cramping, bloating, ect.  She has had allergy testing for food and things like trees, molds, grasses- all negative for an actual allergy.  This has been going on 5+ years.  In 2019 we decided to wean her off the antihistamines b/c they really affect her personality and also her ability to drive.  When she is on them, she is short tempered, jittery, nervous and cannot drive well.  We all like her much better off of medications (she has been on them 5+ years, sometimes Rx strength, sometimes just Zyrtec).  She is grown, and totally on board w/ lowering her histamine intake.   She has a print out of high histamine foods and avoids them for the most part, and especially when she is itchy- all on her own.   She has asked for me to help her to be srue there are wheat-free foods available.  She and my DH often just monitor their intake of wheat (we know that this often causes them both to have hives, itch).  She is not allergic.  We've done testing.  However her body reacts to anything w/ hives.  It is not like psoriasis, it's like an allergic reaction,  a localized- hands, neck, ect. hives that come and go.  Most of the time there is nothing there, but then it will flare up for an hour or two, then go back away.   Sometimes, if its' really bad, they will take an antihistamine and it goes away within 20 minutes.  Drs only want to give us meds.  We are over the meds at this point.  No one is interested in helping us w/ diet.  Last year I asker her Dr. and he said it's just her body makes too much histamine, take meds and do what you want.   My 8 year old just started getting itchy last week, and I am waiting to see if it goes on before I make an appt.  to take her in.  I am *really* hoping it isn't like my ODD's case!  This affects so much- It isn't just about avoiding foods, it's about avoiding activities such as swimming (water contact causes a break out, she while she isnt'[ allergic to swimming, it certainly looks like it).  Being outside right now, more than about 10 minutes, will make her itchy for an hour.  How many activities does she miss?  A lot.  Plus it make her self conscious b/c she looks covered in polka dots.  Avoiding foods isn't going to help this, but it could possibly make it less.  Again- I know it's hard to explain.  It's weird.  I know.  It's also our life.  

Apparently I was unclear in my OP, but I am wanting to offer better foods for less itching- without making it feel like I am changing their diet!  For example, I want soup and rice recipies- preferably ones with lower histamine foods (tomatoes are high histamine for example).  I do not want to go completely gluten free or histamine free, and I don't think I could even if I wanted to!  Meat dishes, veggie dishes, ect.  If I can lower the amount of foods they seem to react to in our normal diet, then they will all be happier!  

 

What do we eat?  We actually eat pretty well IMO.  

Breakfast- eggs most days, home grown 😉  if they do cereal it's all wheat free- rice or corn based

Lunch- left overs- no lunch meat due to histamines, but LO are supposedly high in histamines, too.  

Dinners- we eat meat (mostly farm raised) most nights, veggies, but they do like things like pizza, rolls, - we do not do a lot of pasta, but do make lasagna - pretty much no boxed mixes of stuff.  I would really like to learn to make better rice, since it makes them less itchy than something w/ noodles.  Lots of soup and chili in the winter.

 

Thank you for any help!  

[wintermom]

Has stress or anxiety ever been suggested by any of the doctors your dd has seen? I understand the desire to find solutions to health issues very well, and diet restriction is a relatively quick and easy way to take control. However, gluten restriction may not actually be the cause, though it can be very helpful as a temporary strategy. It could be useful to look into a multifaceted approach.

[LarlaB]

Do the hives go away or lessen at all when she was taking antihistamines? 
 

If your DD can’t tolerate antihistamines, even a Benadryl at night will help lower the load and keep the allergy bucket from cascading.  A small thing- but with histamine/allergies, it’s about realizing all the small things fees into the bigger picture.  At least I’m learning that.

Look into MCAS if you haven’t already- mast cell inhibitors and mediators and liberators.  Pretty interesting stuff.  https://mastcell360.com/debunking-mast-cell-myths/  That blog is amazing.  Like a deep dive into MCAS from a slightly more wholistic approach 

It doesn’t all have to be OTC antihistamines...Holy Basil, Quercitin,NasalCrom, Vitamin C  can work in various ways to help.

I’m not sure what you’re looking for recipe wise... you seem to have a good idea of what to do or avoid.  We can’t help with resistant family members LOL one small change at a time 

Edited January 3, 2020 by LarlaB

[klmama]

You wrote that you want to make better rice.  What do you find wrong with the rice you make now?  

Do they react to all types of wheat, or just to whole wheat?  I've read that wheat germ is the biggest problem for those needing to lower histamine levels; if that's true for your family, using white flour instead of whole wheat could make a difference.

Freeze any meat you cook after the meal to stop the histamine production.  It can be reheated on reduced power in the microwave and used for another meal another day.  It can help to slice into individual serving amounts before freezing, so you can use exactly what's needed, preventing leftovers.  You can cube it for salads or stir fry.  If you experiment a bit, you may determine if it's just the leftover meat that's a problem, or if veggies are a problem, too.  Cooked veggies can be frozen and reheated, as well.

Do you use a crock pot?  Slow cooking increases histamine production.  You might consider trying a pressure cooker or Instant Pot to cook the same dishes fast.  Even just cooking on the stovetop instead of using a slow cooker can reduce the amount of histamine produced.  

The current chili is probably causing problems because of the tomato sauce and long cooking process.  You might consider a white chili (white beans, chicken) instead, with reduced cook time.  I suggest you eliminate the lasagna and the pizza, if you are sure they react to them.  As you said, tomatoes are considered high histamine, and many cheeses are high histamine, as well.  

You can substitute for the high histamine soy sauce in Asian stir fries. I like a mixture of garlic salt, ginger, and just a bit of cayenne.  Some people find cayenne is too high in histamine, but you could experiment to see how your family reacts.  Someone on this board recommended coconut aminos instead of soy sauce, but I don't know about the histamine level in that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BusyMom5]

Klmama, Thank you!  That's the kind of advice I was looking for.  My rice is okay, I just never know what else to do with it.  I do broth and rice- 20 minutes on the stove top.  I have soy, teriyaki sauce, ect., but I would like some ideas of what else I can do with the rice- sauces, dishes,  veggies, ect.   Aside from stir fry,  I have no idea!  I think you may be on to something with the whole wheat vs white- I will look into that.   And I had not thought about freezing her portion.  

 

LarlaB- I will look I to sites you posted.  When she is on antihistamines her symptoms are gone, which is why shes been on them 5+ years, and why the Drs only have this as a solution.  It has always been a scale, and certain foods push her past the tipping point.  I'm definitely going to look into alternatives to meds.  Thank you.

 

[klmama]

Rice pilaf, maybe, to go with meat and veggies?  Lots of recipes online and in basic cookbooks, and not hard to make with low-histamine ingredients.

Rice goes well with beans or lentils.  You may want to soak your own and pressure cook them, if possible, to avoid the high histamine issue with canned beans.  Black beans, pinto beans, kidney beans, green lentils, red lentils, etc.  Season with whatever you like that doesn't cause reactions.  I'd look for recipes from Latin America and India, then adapt as needed.   ETA:  I just read on the site LarlaB linked above that beans/lentils have lectins, which could be a problem, as well.  Just FYI, in case you haven't read it yet.

Is the broth you use to make the rice a packaged broth or fresh?  It might be another source of histamine that could be cut back while you experiment with the rest.

Again, I'd encourage you to try to find lower-histamine substitutes for the soy sauce and teriyaki sauce.  Both involve fermentation and so have high histamine levels, even in a small amount of sauce.

Low-histamine foods for munching - fresh apples, carrots, etc.  

 

 

 

 

Edited January 3, 2020 by klmama

[kbutton]

On 1/2/2020 at 6:31 PM, BusyMom5 said:

This has been going on 5+ years.  In 2019 we decided to wean her off the antihistamines b/c they really affect her personality and also her ability to drive.  When she is on them, she is short tempered, jittery, nervous and cannot drive well.  We all like her much better off of medications (she has been on them 5+ years, sometimes Rx strength, sometimes just Zyrtec). 

Has she tried leukotriene inhibitors, h2 blockers, nasal spray, mast cell inhibitors, etc.? A really good doctor (hard to find) might have a totally different range of tools in their toolbox. Zyrtec is awful for me. Allegra is good. My new doctor put me on a nasal spray that I think is making a really big difference (azelastine). I think the nasal spray and leukotriene inhibitors were a seriously helpful addition. 

If her doctor's stance was eat what you want and take meds, I do wonder if that was a bad combo vs. the meds themselves causing her to feel this way. Was she taking asthma meds? They can cause jitters and anxiety. Also, I think some meds have side effects that are noted in kids and teens but are not a problem as adults, but I am not positive about that (Singulair?).

I still don't have definitive answers for my problems (testing for mast cell has been a dead end so far--may need to be scoped). I had to give up tea of all kinds due to heart palpitations and bladder issues (it made my bladder spasm). I have to be really careful about coffee and drink mostly decaf. I may have to give it up eventually. So if she was drinking caffeinated products, that could be part of the issue. 

Also consider what might be going on with vitamins and supplements if she's on any.