Math Remediation Ideas

[taffnus]

Hi Everyone. It’s been a while since I’ve come on. I thought my homeschooling journey was over after 11 years but it is not. My youngest daughter started BM school this year but came home after a month for a couple reasons - mostly due to health issues. I am now reimagining homeschool (she’s always been homeschooled) in light of information I finally have. 

DD13 was just diagnosed with ADHD and a slow processing speed. She has some emotional issues as well, which has made learning in a group (coop/school) difficult/impossible. I honestly think that, if the emotional issues and processing speed are dealt with, the ADHD symptoms will not be noticeable. My DD16 has ADHD and it’s very “textbook” for Inattentive type. This DD has never exhibited many of the ADHD traits until the last couple years when emotional issues have surfaced. 

With all that said, her verbal/reading scores have always been above average. It’s her math that has ALWAYS been a huge struggle. Now I now it’s because of processing speed. The psychologist told me yesterday that her basic math skills are at 3rd/4th grade level. Her problem solving skills are nearly grade level. Her IQ is average as is her working memory.
 

So now I’m wondering how to meet her needs with math. I think I need some way to identify all the holes and start filling them rather than continue on in a grade-specific curriculum. Please, any ideas on how to proceed would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!!

[Lecka]

Does basic math skills mean computation?  Does she need to work on math facts?  
 

Is it that she has holes, or did she work more slowly, or make mistakes?

Did the person give examples of things where she has trouble?  

She might need some extra practice while still moving forward?  

[Lecka]

You can ask — but if she did score lower because of working more slowly and having that count against her (which — can be how things work) that is not the same as having holes.  
 

In theory the more automatic all her math facts and computation can be — the faster she can go — but this can be a slow process and not necessarily a reason to pause — especially if it is boring and something maybe appropriate to work on for 20 minutes a day or something.  
 

It might also be something where — okay, she works more slowly.

I don’t know but it’s the kind of thing you can ask.  Did the person think she could go faster with practice?  Or is this realistic with her processing speed?  You could ask. 

 

 

Edited January 1, 2020 by Lecka

[taffnus]

Thanks for responding! It’s not that she’s just worked slowly. She hasn’t got a firm foundation. Her math facts are very shaky. 
We would work on a subject, like fractions, she’d understand then forget it once we moved on to something else. That tells me she didn’t really have a firm grasp of it before we moved on to the next. She’s had a lot of interruption in her instruction over the last two years, which hasn’t helped at all. I have BJU 6th grade at home and she’s seen the topics but wouldn’t be able to complete the level without significant instruction. I just don’t know if I should start there or go back to work on math facts or do both.

[lewelma]

Math facts are not math, they are just memory.  So I would run two streams at separate times of the day, one for math and one for memory. 

[Lecka]

I think they are not just memory, also numbers sense if working on them with numbers sense type strategies.  Skip counting would also be good.  There is no hurry if she does some every day.  Mastery of a small amount and then adding slowly, review, using numbers sense strategies, are all good.  
 

With “just” memorizing if it’s just, just memorizing it is hard to have retention sometimes.  

[Lecka]

Like — using ten frames (edit or abacus or other manipilatives) for adding 8 and 9, that “add 10 subtract 1 or 2,” can be done with addition and then with skip counting, etc.  

If she is good at that kind of thing and just slow, it is worth practicing.  
 

I totally agree about having two streams at two separate times of day.  

Edited January 1, 2020 by Lecka

[Lecka]

I think you could consider moving back a level and also having separate math facts practice.  
 

You also might add in more spiral review if she is forgetting excessively.  It is normal to forget a little and need a little review, but if it’s totally gone it could need more review.  It could also need more in the first place (adding in extra practice, manipulatives, etc).

I don’t think there is one right answer.  It could end up being similar to go back, or go through current but maybe slower.  
 

I have a lot of the same issues with not knowing if I am better off to move forward more, or slow down and practice more to hope for better retention.

I know mixed review or spiral review is needed for retention here.

But I also have to spend extra time on things instead of moving on.  
 

Depending on what you do you could have review as a 3rd stream.  Or if you know “it’s just fractions” then make sure to review fractions or watch some videos or play some games or look for some manipulatives etc.  

I think a good foundation is a gift.  

[Lecka]

We are early in fractions but I have seen a lot of help for my son with Education Unboxed videos, using a ruler to measure 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 inches and draw lines of certain lengths (etc), and some bar manipulatives (on Amazon called tiles — but the fraction manipulatives made as bars instead of circles — they were a new thing to me but someone gave them to me).  
 

There a lot of ideas on Pinterest and games available and options.

The curriculum I am using I have found to need supplementing for fractions.  It wants to teach a lot with coins (like a quarter is 1/4 of a dollar) and that is something he can learn but he needs more outside the curriculum to help him see things like that.  

Edited January 1, 2020 by Lecka

[Lecka]

http://www.educationunboxed.com/fractions/
 

The “number line fraction” video has been really good here and I have definitely gone over it several times, seeing a need to review.

The ruler as a number line has been great but so far just for halves and fourths (and mixed numbers) but he needs to actually practice with other denominators more than his curriculum assumes (it assumes he will generalize more from halves and fourths, to other denominators, I think).  

[PeterPan]

7 hours ago, lewelma said:

Math facts are not math, they are just memory.  So I would run two streams at separate times of the day, one for math and one for memory. 

Just to expand on this, the low processing speed and what I'm assuming is anxiety hamper getting things from her short term working memory into longer term memory. And if she has anxiety, then the minute she gets stressed, she's bogging down anyway. 

My dd was like this, with the very low processing speed and getting bogged down in math. The math facts didn't stick, partly because her visual memory was poor, and partly because her system was just so stressed. 

So, fwiw, I can tell you that her math scores on the ACT went up SIGNIFICANTLY when she started meds for the ADHD. So you're saying the ADHD isn't an issue, but ironically meds for it (and possibly for the anxiety, at least counseling and CBT and mindfulness strategies for the anxiety), might make a bigger difference on her math than any work you to. It might bring the math within reach.

I think your idea to use a 6th grade text is spot on. I'm not sure I'd use BJU's. Are you thinking old edition or current edition? Old edition would be fine, but they ramped it up so much in the newest editions, I just wouldn't use them for this. You can look into Ronit Bird's stuff for improving the number sense/math facts stuff. It sounds like she has some definite holes there.

[taffnus]

On 1/1/2020 at 7:01 PM, Lecka said:

http://www.educationunboxed.com/fractions/
 

The “number line fraction” video has been really good here and I have definitely gone over it several times, seeing a need to review.

The ruler as a number line has been great but so far just for halves and fourths (and mixed numbers) but he needs to actually practice with other denominators more than his curriculum assumes (it assumes he will generalize more from halves and fourths, to other denominators, I think).  

 Thank you! My dd is almost 14 and already feels like she’s stupid (her words). It’s so sad and we’re working on that but she really just needs to have some success. I’m afraid these videos would feed that thought because the children in them are so young. The info is good though so I could use the ideas for teaching but I wouldn’t show her the videos. Thanks!

[taffnus]

On 1/1/2020 at 11:17 PM, PeterPan said:

And if she has anxiety, then the minute she gets stressed, she's bogging down anyway. 

So, fwiw, I can tell you that her math scores on the ACT went up SIGNIFICANTLY when she started meds for the ADHD.

I think your idea to use a 6th grade text is spot on. I'm not sure I'd use BJU's. You can look into Ronit Bird's stuff for improving the number sense/math facts stuff. It sounds like she has some definite holes there.

Oh, yes! Anxiety has become an issue over the last few years and I have no doubt that is exacerbating the problem. I’m very hesitant to start meds because she’s pretty fragile emotionally/psychologically right now. My older dd tried three different meds for adhd in 2019 and it didn’t go well. I’m very hesitant to try them for this kid right now at least. The psychologist’s office is recommending TDCS (brain stimulation) and we are strongly considering it as a first treatment before trying meds. 
 

Thank you for the recommendation of Ronit Bird materials. I’m working my way through them now trying to figure out which one(s) would be best to purchase. I’m assuming that would be the only math we’d do in the day?? I could certainly see the benefit in starting at the beginning to work on number sense before moving forward with middle school math concepts. I’m afraid though, that I don’t have the knowledge to do that well. I also don’t know if she’d need to start at the very beginning. She does have some number sense and doesn’t pass most of the characteristics for Dyscalculia but I think the exercises would be incredibly helpful. I just don’t know where to start and with which resource.

[PeterPan]

2 hours ago, taffnus said:

tried three different meds for adhd in 2019 and it didn’t go well.

What about running genetics? You might find explanations or some treatment for the anxiety there. Some of it is pretty low hanging fruit, easy to do. Like a defect in TPH2 means you take 5HTP. Defect in VDR=take vitamin D. MTHFR defect means take a different form of b vitamin. 

Usually the adverse reactions with the ADHD meds are predictable from the genetics. It will be right in the color coded panel you can see for free at knowyourgenetics.com So you run the cheap panel on 23andme, download the data, and run it through knowyourgenetics, and boom workable information.

You know you can write RB through her website or FB? She's really lovely. Her ebooks have videos embedded and are fully scripted. The 3 main ebooks (Dots, C-Rods, Multiplication) together are roughly the material in her Dyscalculia Toolkit book. Her Overcoming book is more what is meant for older kids. So if you're saying to distinguish those, I think go with your gut, but that's the idea, that Overcoming is starting at a higher point for kids with more experience. But if Dots/C-Rods/Multi is where she's at, do them, kwim? I like the ebooks because they're idiotproof, easy to use. But just by age, you'd start with Overcoming (print book), yes. Resource is her supplemental book, good alongside anything you choose.

She probably wouldn't spend long in it, but for the super low cost ($10), the Dots or C-Rods ebook can be really nice starting points. Then you'd have a feel for it.