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Arctic Mama

Murders at the Hanukkah celebration and the Texas church

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I’m so sick over both of these.  Hate, anti semitism, violence.  It is disgusting.  And in both of these instances the brave actions of the people there defending themselves seem to have made an appreciable difference, be it with firearms or just throwing chairs and tables.

But I deeply wish they didn’t have to.  
 

Our church locks doors the entire Sunday morning except for when the ushers and security team are manning them.  You must actually check in and out of the building to get to your car and back during service, because we have had incidents of criminal mischief, violence, and theft already.  The security team is trained, permitted, and armed.  It all feels so unnecessary, be it violence at churches, schools, shopping centers, what have you. 
 

I’m just surprised we haven’t talked about this yet.  Or even the beheadings in Nigeria or that huge, horrendous truck bomb in Niger that killed 90 innocent people. So much hatred and violence and terror 😞

Edited by Arctic Mama
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Have been discussing it elsewhere, at least the global rise in anti-Semitism (in the context of an anti-Semitic UK left).

What happened in Texas?

 

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Just now, StellaM said:

Have been discussing it elsewhere, at least the global rise in anti-Semitism (in the context of an anti-Semitic UK left).

What happened in Texas?

 

A guy opened fire with a shotgun at a Church of Christ this morning, killed two people, but was taken down in seconds by a former FBI agent who was with church security. The video was disturbing, but it was a blessing the security officer reacted how he did, as accurately as he did, or it would have been so much worse. 

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Just now, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

The rise in anti-semitism is the most baffling to me- I'm reading this book trying to better understand. 

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/279089.Why_the_Jews_

 

 

I have never seen so much anti-Semitic discourse online in the life of the internet as I did in the last year.

People defending use of some pretty terrible anti-Semitic tropes, including blood libel.  And coming from the left! People telling Jews that if they are so bothered by anti-Semitism to leave and go to Israel (the same Israel they think has no right to exist, of course). I am astounded by how much anti-Semitism I've seen expressed.

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No place of worship should have to be under guard in order for people to freely gather with brethren and worship 😞 

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It;s awful. In the TX church, in the still photo I saw, it seemed that many (most?) of the church members were older folks. Those poor people.

And the stuff in NYC is horrific. I don't even know what to say. 

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1 minute ago, StellaM said:

No place of worship should have to be under guard in order for people to freely gather with brethren and worship 😞 

I agree, but on the other hand, I tell you what- it sure makes me appreciate a lot more what Christians, and people of other faiths go through in other countries. It's very odd to consider church security now tbh- even though the Bible explicitly states that we will be hated and persecuted. But it was very much a theoretical thing, not a *modern* day thing for me. Reading about it taking place in other countries didn't quite have the impact that having it happen locally does. 😞

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7 minutes ago, StellaM said:

No place of worship should have to be under guard in order for people to freely gather with brethren and worship 😞 

I know, I feel that way about schools as well, but as my husband points out they are just very tempting targets because of the volume of people who can be hurt quickly, and with prejudice for whatever ax the gunman is grinding.  So if we value their safety more proactive protection is needed.

It makes me heart sick.  This is why we carry outside the home when we do, too.  But I wish people never had to worry about violence being perpetrated on them just for breathing and gathering and holding opinions, I wish that was the case everywhere and it makes me long for the time when that will finally be so.

Looking at what the Fulani herdsman are doing to the Christians in Nigeria, the utter devastation and ‘re-education’ of the Uighers in China, the ongoing murder of hundreds and hundreds of tourists and minority non-Muslims in Indonesia and surrounding countries, the day to day harassment and murder of Jews across Europe, even the ongoing cartel violence and human trafficking in Mexico and Central America... it just makes me grieve and feel so powerless.  As a believer I know there is an end to this, but I wish it would come quickly and without so much pain.

Edited by Arctic Mama
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14 minutes ago, StellaM said:

 

I have never seen so much anti-Semitic discourse online in the life of the internet as I did in the last year.

People defending use of some pretty terrible anti-Semitic tropes, including blood libel.  And coming from the left! People telling Jews that if they are so bothered by anti-Semitism to leave and go to Israel (the same Israel they think has no right to exist, of course). I am astounded by how much anti-Semitism I've seen expressed.

It was crazy to me with the shooting in NJ a couple of weeks ago, where the two black supremecist/wing nuts shot up that Jewish deli and killed several people that there were mainstream articles justifying it as anti-semitism coming from gentrification, so that was different and in someway justifiable. And the NJ School board member and her statements and that it took a bit for them to can her?!? Seriously. I mean,  I cannot think of another shooting where main stream newspapers (initially) came up with some things defending the action as anything but reprehensible. It was very much "yes, but". So gross. 

Edited by Æthelthryth the Texan
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2 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

I know, I feel that way about schools as well, but as my husband points out they are just very tempting targets because of the volume of people who can be hurt quickly, and with prejudice for whatever ax the gunman is grinding.  So if we value their safety more proactive protection is needed.

It makes me heart sick.  This is why we carry outside the home when we do, too.  But I wish people never had to worry about violence being perpetrated on them just for breathing and gathering and holding opinions, I wish that was the case everywhere and it makes me long for the time when that will finally be so.

 

I phrased it badly. I didn't mean you shouldn't have security, just that it's terrible people aren't free to gather and worship without it. 

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Just now, StellaM said:

 

I phrased it badly. I didn't mean you shouldn't have security, just that it's terrible people aren't free to gather and worship without it. 

I knew what you meant.  I wish the same were true, across the globe I wish people could feel safe to worship and live without oppression and hatred and persecution and murder from others.  It feels more immediate when it is here in the US but it’s just as horrible and unjust anywhere else when it happens.  

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2 minutes ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

It was crazy to me with the shooting in NY a couple of weeks ago, where the two black supremecist/wing nuts shot up that Jewish deli and killed several people that there were mainstream articles justifying it as anti-semitism coming from gentrification, so that was different and in someway justifiable. And the NJ School board member and her statements and that it took a bit for them to can her?!? Seriously. I mean,  I cannot think of another shooting where main stream newspapers (initially) came up with some things defending the action as anything but reprehensible. It was very much "yes, but". So gross. 

 

That's the kind of thing I'm seeing. Justification of hatred of Jews in 'normal' discourse.

"Yes, but..."

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4 minutes ago, StellaM said:

 

 

I'm thinking that it never went away. 

 

 

I think you are 100% correct and the more I read I am figuring out the *excuses* for it that I've heard in history class weren't really accurate either. It was much deeper and more systemic and is threaded throughout history. 

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7 minutes ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

I think you are 100% correct and the more I read I am figuring out the *excuses* for it that I've heard in history class weren't really accurate either. It was much deeper and more systemic and is threaded throughout history. 

 

I think I've been very naive, as a non-Jew, not understanding the enduring nature of anti-Semitism. 

 

 

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Years ago, I worked part-time at a Jewish organization and was bemused at how many security measures we had to take but I am not Jewish and have never experienced (yet) this kind of persecution.

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Our church always has an "usher" at the door to the auditorium, which is about two steps from the door to the front of the church. We also have at least one person who always carries as he's a police officer. Getting permits here is exceedingly difficult, so I don't know if there are others. Apparently, there have been incidents (not involving weapons) at the church we go to, but we live in an area with a lot of elements where it isn't too surprising.

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35 minutes ago, StellaM said:

 

I think I've been very naive, as a non-Jew, not understanding the enduring nature of anti-Semitism. 

 

 

I don't understand it either.  

I'm so sad about all these incidents.  I have no concept of that level of hatred.  

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9 minutes ago, Liz CA said:

Years ago, I worked part-time at a Jewish organization and was bemused at how many security measures we had to take but I am not Jewish and have never experienced (yet) this kind of persecution.

My son went to several bar mitzvahs several years ago.  I was surprised that each synagogue we went to had some kind of security.  Mostly I was saddened that it was necessary.

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35 minutes ago, PrincessMommy said:

I don't understand it either.  

I'm so sad about all these incidents.  I have no concept of that level of hatred.  

 

Yeah, it's so mindless. 

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1 hour ago, PrincessMommy said:

My son went to several bar mitzvahs several years ago.  I was surprised that each synagogue we went to had some kind of security.  Mostly I was saddened that it was necessary.

My church has a uniformed police officer out front during services. So did the last one I attended.

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I would love to attend a church where there were real security personnel or a uniformed officer out front!  If our current and retired law enforcement members could carry on site, I'd feel a lot better about it, but they aren't allowed to do that.  It's a weapons-free zone, which I'm sure will be respected by any lunatics who might otherwise wish to do harm.  🙄

 

ETA:  I just reread this on my phone, and there my emoji was smiling, which was not my intent.  Eye roll, yes, but no smile.  

Edited by klmama
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9 hours ago, Arctic Mama said:

I’m so sick over both of these.  Hate, anti semitism, violence.  It is disgusting.  And in both of these instances the brave actions of the people there defending themselves seem to have made an appreciable difference, be it with firearms or just throwing chairs and tables.

But I deeply wish they didn’t have to.  
 

Our church locks doors the entire Sunday morning except for when the ushers and security team are manning them.  You must actually check in and out of the building to get to your car and back during service, because we have had incidents of criminal mischief, violence, and theft already.  The security team is trained, permitted, and armed.  It all feels so unnecessary, be it violence at churches, schools, shopping centers, what have you. 
 

I’m just surprised we haven’t talked about this yet.  Or even the beheadings in Nigeria or that huge, horrendous truck bomb in Niger that killed 90 innocent people. So much hatred and violence and terror 😞

I started a thread about the attacks in NYC early yesterday morning, I think before the murders in TX even occurred.

I think the people who responded in that thread know about what has been happening in NYC with the attacks on  the Jewish people that have been happening in the past several weeks whereas it might not be as well known or publicized eleswhere.

One attacker, a woman, who told police that yes, she physically attacked 3 Jewish women and said F--- Jews, was released without bond and she supposedly has been arrested again a couple days later for something else.

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@unsinkable that’s what has been driving me crazy with the antisemitic attacks. There have been DOZENS on Hasidic/Orthodox Jews this past year and many get almost zero press.  It’s like it’s actually being suppressed or ignored in terms of reporting until it’s impossible to ignore because of scope.  I missed your thread but I’m glad I’m not the only person going ‘what the heck?!’.  

Edited by Arctic Mama
Funky typo fix
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22 minutes ago, unsinkable said:

 

One attacker, a woman, who told police that yes, she physically attacked 3 Jewish women and said F--- Jews, was released without bond and she supposedly has been arrested again a couple days later for something else.

I saw that last night and it made me so angry. 

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Our church started having visible security measures in the past few years.  I know some of the folks have guns, though it is never mentioned.  Like others, I'm of two minds on it, but I guess it's time to accept it.  I guess kids born today will take it for granted that you have armed security at church / house of worship.  Interesting to consider the implications of that.

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6 hours ago, klmama said:

I would love to attend a church where there were real security personnel or a uniformed officer out front!  If our current and retired law enforcement members could carry on site, I'd feel a lot better about it, but they aren't allowed to do that.  It's a weapons-free zone, which I'm sure will be respected by any lunatics who might otherwise wish to do harm.  🙄

They just changed the law on that here in TX allowing it over the summer- it took effect September 1 I believe (unless the church leader prohibits it) and now they have proof that, as sad as it was necessary, it worked. 

Big time pastors around here have always had church security during my lifetime, but it was to protect the pastor from threats, not that the congregation was under threat. That's changed quite rapidly. 

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My son went to Montessori school for 3 years with a wonderful family whose daughter is now married and attends the Texas church. Kinda makes it hit home a bit more. 

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I live about 15 minutes from the church in White Settlement.  We actually didn't go to church yesterday, because my husband is on some special project at work where he's working 7 days a week (which is awful, but a different story).  I had anxiety attacks all day yesterday.  As soon as I saw it on the local news, I felt like all the blood left my head and someone was sitting on my neck and back.  I've actually been up since 3am, because I am having so much anxiety about it.  I can't even get my heart to calm down (if that makes any sense). 

And my 12 year-old dd is acolyte on Sunday and I don't feel like going anymore.  Our church did send out a big message online about how they DO have security, even if the parishioners don't realize it.

They were live-streaming the service, so I did see pictures of it.  It looked like the man was wearing some kind of scary costume??  Why did they let him in the church?  And I'm not trying to blame the ushers at all - it looked like they suspected he was up to no good.  And they saved a ton of lives.  But, if I see someone wearing some weird costume or doing something strange, I'm grabbing my kids and getting the &^% out of wherever I am.  People are insane.  Again, I'm not blaming them and I wasn't there...just voicing my anxieties here.  

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6 hours ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

They just changed the law on that here in TX allowing it over the summer- it took effect September 1 I believe (unless the church leader prohibits it) and now they have proof that, as sad as it was necessary, it worked. 

Big time pastors around here have always had church security during my lifetime, but it was to protect the pastor from threats, not that the congregation was under threat. That's changed quite rapidly. 

It’s sad but I also go to a church where there are armed members at every service intentionally along with obvious security.

When we were living in England we had a very disturbed possibly armed(knife but also carrying a bottle that many thought was acid) enter the church during service and sit directly behind my family next to the most obviously infirm member.  He proceeded to threaten the minister grab the woman’s walker and a few other things.  It was so frightening and I won’t feel safe there again.   Thanks to the sermon being cut short in a creative way we managed to get everyone out of there.......we didn’t even have a cell phone in the entire congregation.   He left a bus ticket behind by accident and took public transport from two hours away to visit us.  He is known to the police.  Wait for it......the cure is locking a cell phone in the church office during service.

eta........I do want to add that phone service does not work in that particular church unless you are standing in one particular spot and lucky.   The 1000 yo stone seems to prohibit it.

Edited by mumto2
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1 hour ago, Evanthe said:

I live about 15 minutes from the church in White Settlement.  We actually didn't go to church yesterday, because my husband is on some special project at work where he's working 7 days a week (which is awful, but a different story).  I had anxiety attacks all day yesterday.  As soon as I saw it on the local news, I felt like all the blood left my head and someone was sitting on my neck and back.  I've actually been up since 3am, because I am having so much anxiety about it.  I can't even get my heart to calm down (if that makes any sense). 

And my 12 year-old dd is acolyte on Sunday and I don't feel like going anymore.  Our church did send out a big message online about how they DO have security, even if the parishioners don't realize it.

They were live-streaming the service, so I did see pictures of it.  It looked like the man was wearing some kind of scary costume??  Why did they let him in the church?  And I'm not trying to blame the ushers at all - it looked like they suspected he was up to no good.  And they saved a ton of lives.  But, if I see someone wearing some weird costume or doing something strange, I'm grabbing my kids and getting the &^% out of wherever I am.  People are insane.  Again, I'm not blaming them and I wasn't there...just voicing my anxieties here.  

I'm so sorry. 

I've seen the video, but couldn't tell what the guy was wearing. One of the parishioners said he had on a fake beard? 

My hope is, the new law makes people think twice here. These people want infamy, not failure. If they get tagged before they rack up their "goal" and go down as a failure, I hope it is a deterrent to others. There are four armed people in that video that I could count, and probably more that didn't draw. No first responders could ever have stopped it in time, but these men risked their lives, one dying to do so by my understanding, and stepped up. I just pray it helps in the future. But with that type of mentality, who knows what the attackers are thinking. I think some is mental illness, but I think an awful lot is sheer hatred. 

Edited by Æthelthryth the Texan
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Is it just me or has the news been better at avoiding using the suspects name in captions and headlines? I’ve only seen pictures of him in handcuffs or being taken down in church. No Notoriety is a cause I’ve been pushing for years. I do think the news may be changing their policies; especially since that DoJ report came out. I truly hope it makes a difference. 

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15 minutes ago, Plum said:

Is it just me or has the news been better at avoiding using the suspects name in captions and headlines? I’ve only seen pictures of him in handcuffs or being taken down in church. No Notoriety is a cause I’ve been pushing for years. I do think the news may be changing their policies; especially since that DoJ report came out. I truly hope it makes a difference. 

I'm seeing him identified, but it's fairly local to here, and he's from Houston (assuming it's the Houston River Oaks and not another River Oaks?) so maybe it's a local v national thing. 

I will say the hero-shooter who took him down is getting even more press coverage as far as identity locally than the dead/evil shooter, so that's good. 

Edited by Æthelthryth the Texan
ETA- he's from town of River Oaks near FW, not the Houston River Oaks
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5 minutes ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

I'm seeing him identified, but it's fairly local to here, and he's from Houston so maybe it's a local v national thing. 

I’m seeing him identified but only within the article and minimally. I don’t watch 24/7 news networks, so I’m only talking about what I’m seeing going through my Google and FB newsfeed. WaPo named him in the caption, but Fox News did not. They both used the picture of him with police on both sides and in handcuffs behind his back. Imagery is important as well as naming. 

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7 minutes ago, Plum said:

I’m seeing him identified but only within the article and minimally. I don’t watch 24/7 news networks, so I’m only talking about what I’m seeing going through my Google and FB newsfeed. WaPo named him in the caption, but Fox News did not. They both used the picture of him with police on both sides and in handcuffs behind his back. Imagery is important as well as naming. 

I haven't seen that photo- just old mugshots. I am wondering if that's an old photo? They aren't going to cuff a guy with a fatal wound and walk him out like that. He'd be on a gurney wouldn't he? 

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I just read a short article about a crime-prevention group in NYC who plans to patrol Jewish neighborhoods as a deterrent.  Are there any New Yorkers here familiar with the success of this group's efforts?

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9 minutes ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

I haven't seen that photo- just old mugshots. I am wondering if that's an old photo? They aren't going to cuff a guy with a fatal wound and walk him out like that. He'd be on a gurney wouldn't he? 

No sorry I was talking about articles regarding the stabbing in NY. 

ETA I mentioned the suspect being taken down in church because those are the only images I’ve seen of that suspect. 

Edited by Plum

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1 minute ago, Plum said:

No sorry I was only talking about articles regarding the stabbing in NY. 

Ahhh okay, that makes more sense, because I was pretty sure from the video the guy shot him in the head and was wondering what I'd missed. 

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14 hours ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

The rise in anti-semitism is the most baffling to me- I'm reading this book trying to better understand. 

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/279089.Why_the_Jews_

 

 

That looks helpful.  Thanks for mentioning it. I just ordered an audiobook of it.  

Though its focus is more specifically about the Catholic Church (and to some degree protestant Christianity), I think Constantine’s Sword book by James Carroll, and also the documentary based on it, are both helpful for understanding.   Constantine's Sword: The Church and the Jews,  A History https://www.amazon.com/dp/0618219080/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_vKKcEbXMKW7N2


 

 

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1 hour ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

I'm seeing him identified, but it's fairly local to here, and he's from Houston (assuming it's the Houston River Oaks and not another River Oaks?) so maybe it's a local v national thing. 

I will say the hero-shooter who took him down is getting even more press coverage as far as identity locally than the dead/evil shooter, so that's good. 

That is another proven deterrent. Honoring the victims and the heroes of mass killings along with showing the suspects down on the ground being arrested, in orange jumpsuits, in handcuffs, in mugshots and not pulled from their carefully curated social media accounts deters others from copying. 

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This Texas guy seems-ed bat shit crazy the more that's coming out. He needed to be locked up somewhere a long time ago and not let out. I don't understand the whole giving violent people chance after chance. Like the lady that actually assaulted the Jewish women and got out on bail despite a long rap sheet. 

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This book came up on Amazon too — I’ve not read it, but it looks like it could be good:

How to Fight Anti-Semitism https://www.amazon.com/dp/0593136055/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_E2KcEb4TD2SYX

http://How to Fight Anti-Semitism https://www.amazon.com/dp/0593136055/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_E2KcEb4TD2SYX

 

(having mixed experience with trying to do links today)

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I saw the video from the Texas church and the security guard took out the shooter in seconds with one very well placed shot. I read that he's a member of the church and has trained other members as a security team. The video shows at least five armed church members.

I'm not sure it's all that unusual anymore for churches to have some kind of security plan. Our church has had an armed police officer in our lobby on Sunday mornings for the past year or so and I strongly suspect that there are others in our congregation who carry concealed. I know a guy who always goes to his church carrying and he's trying to convince a new pastor that they should set up a security team, especially since the church is full of former FBI types.  OTOH, there is a church in our community that has made their church "gun free" and even posted a sign on their door. It's a small church with mostly older members on a heavily traveled state route and I cringe when I see the sign. I can only hope they have some type of security in place.

I am interested in reading the book about anti-Semitism since I have close relatives who are Jewish.

Edited by mom2scouts
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25 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

@mom2scouts ugh that is cringe worthy - it seems like it’s not something you’d want to advertise.

I always cringe when I see signs, as I go into malls, stores etc, that it’s a gun free zone. I only hope that a good person with a gun, ignores the rule. DH has a concealed carry permit and has encouraged me to do the same. It’s not my comfort level now but seeing all this senseless violence, has me reconsidering.

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1 hour ago, May said:

I always cringe when I see signs, as I go into malls, stores etc, that it’s a gun free zone. I only hope that a good person with a gun, ignores the rule. DH has a concealed carry permit and has encouraged me to do the same. It’s not my comfort level now but seeing all this senseless violence, has me reconsidering.

 

Agreed!  Our dd was working at the mall in OKC during the recent shooting.  It is a gun free zone.  She was safe, thankfully, but terrified.  

My dh has also encouraged me to carry.  If I felt that there was no way my children could get ahold of it yet I could easily access said weapon when there was no other option, then I would consider carrying.

One of our elders is a former police officer and other members are various levels of former military. One was even a US Marshall.  We definitely have a security plan in place.  It is comforting and sad at the same time.  Our church building has doors that automatically lock as you leave and we have multiple men as ushers, whose sole jobs are managing security during each service.

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18 hours ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

It was crazy to me with the shooting in NJ a couple of weeks ago, where the two black supremecist/wing nuts shot up that Jewish deli and killed several people that there were mainstream articles justifying it as anti-semitism coming from gentrification, so that was different and in someway justifiable. And the NJ School board member and her statements and that it took a bit for them to can her?!? Seriously. I mean,  I cannot think of another shooting where main stream newspapers (initially) came up with some things defending the action as anything but reprehensible. It was very much "yes, but". So gross. 

I’m so sick of this equal time for both sides. Some things are never justifiable. This country seems to believe we have two sets of facts. The MSM seems to go along with this.And contrary to what someone once said about hundreds of young men chanting Blood and Soil, Jews will not replace us, there were NOT fine people on both sides.

Ive seen a couple of documentaries on the rise of hate groups here in the past 5 or 6 years, I’ll try to get the titles. One thing that is even more scary is the number of young military members who are members of these groups.

ok, the one about neo Nazis and those infiltrating the military is a Frontline show called Documenting Hate: Charlottesville. 

Edited by Dotwithaperiod
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@Dotwithaperiod the transcript from Charlottesville, along with accounts from people actually there, bely the hoax that the president called white supremicists fine people or that those were the only ones there representing the other side.  I do NOT want this to get political. 

Here is the transcript and a screen shot of some of the president’s remarks, which directly contradict what you’re claiming.  The white supremacy anti Semite violent nonsense is absolutely not a characteristic of any mainstream right wing politics, and it’s factually incorrect to state it as such and irrelevant to this discussion.
 

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Here is a more complete link for anyone who wants to read through the entire thing.

https://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-trump-charlottesville-transcript-20170815-story.html

Now PLEASE back on topic - the anti semitism isn’t coming from our president, nor any mainstream sensible news sources on either side.  But it IS absolutely associated with certain political ideologies that are gaining traction in some circles, like BHI movement, Antifa, your random run of the mill young skinheads, and yeah, some more extreme Islamic groups in the US, Europe, Africa, and the Middle East. 

It is absolutely not common among the branches of the service either, even young service members. That is an overstatement and not relevant to the current events mentioned in this thread, not to mention hurtful to those of us with family members actively serving 😞

I agree with you completely that the anti Jewish rhetoric is completely ridiculous and harmful.  There we have common ground.  But those who are espousing it are not mainstream in America in either party.  I do worry about it rising, but not from this president.

This is a thoughtful opinion piece on the changing face of antisemitism in the US and where some of the cognitive dissonance may be coming from, and it’s about as far as we can go without this getting ugly on the chat board.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/why-trumps-protection-leaves-jews-confused-11577045388?mod=searchresults&page=1&pos=2

Please don’t blow up a thread discussing victims and grief with politics. I know we all have theories and opinions on the etiology of it, but as the OP I’m asking we don’t go down that rabbit trail and get this closed if we can avoid it. Antisemitism is wrong, 100%, and an insidious evil.  Othering ANYONE who isn’t actively harming another person is wrong, but especially wide swaths of the population.  That way lies evil and death 😞

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