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[Ann.without.an.e]

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Edited December 3, 2021 by Ann.without.an.e

[plansrme]

All of the successful farmers that I know have college degrees, so perhaps it would help her to talk to some actual farmers.  On the other hand, if she hooks up with some who did not, that could backfire if you really want her to go to college regardless of her ultimate career.  Perhaps skip top 10 schools and let her tour some land grant universities with strong ag programs.  I know my alma mater (Auburn--I was an ag major undergrad but then went to law school) has focused a lot in recent years on sustainable farming practices, so I would think others probably have as well.  They may have more to offer her than she thinks.

[gardenmom5]

Is she burned out from school?  are you in a position to support her business experiments? how thorough is her plan?  does she understand it's the backroom that kills most businesses? (and most people aren't willing to put up with the deprivation while starting a business.) Is she wiling to take business courses on the side?  is there a business networking group in your area with people to whom she could speak about the realties of starting your own business?

I've known kids, especially after health issues, who needed break time to mentally recover as well as the physical before going back to school.  I also know kids who took their college money and started businesses.  

remember - bill gates was a college drop out.  we are long-time friends with one of his father's law partners (we found out later my mother went to high school with him,.).  I was chatting with (law-partner's) wife (don't remember how it came up) - gates sr was raging around the office the day bill dropped out of college.

[Carol in Cal.]

There are a lot of farming internships, and it might not be a bad idea to try out one and see whether she really likes it so much or not.

I know that I love the *idea* of farming, and the *planning* of farming, but I don't like to garden and I have allergies.  I could be a farm wife of the 'making tons of great food' type, and even preserves and canning, but I wouldn't do well with the outdoor physicality of good sustainable ag.  She needs to find that out before she sets herself on this path too irrevocably.  (Of course, maybe she already has, but it didn't sound like it.)

What does she like to write about?  Has she participated in writers' workshops or anything like that?  There are writing fellowships here and there for young people who want to get a stipend, living/working space, and be able to focus on a specific work.  She might try for some of those.

Regarding college, I know that it's hard to give up 'a lot of potential' but I wonder whether a more low key setting might suit her better.  There are a lot of unique universities out there, and she might find value in visiting some of them.  Just to throw out a few--St. John's College in Santa Fe is a traditional liberal arts college that sounds very much like a traditional Cambridge type education--great books, discussions, a small cohort, precise and expansive discourse, focus on Great Books to the extent that even the (few) STEM classes are geared toward history and great books and the great conversation.  I have a friend who has two kids in Hillsdale, which is a conservative, specifically Christian friendly liberal arts university--she is very happy with them there.  There is a small, decidedly not conservative liberal arts college in Vermont (Middlebury College) where kids basically design their own majors and figure out what they want to study in an atmosphere of bubbling independence and wild creativity.  These are all very small institutions that might suit her a lot better than a big university or a super competitive one.  Getting information about some of these educational options and visiting them might be a great time investment.  She might benefit from studying agriculture--there are good colleges that have programs that are less 'big ag' than they used to be, and there is a lot of efficient information procurement to be had at some of them.

If this was my kid, I think I would try to figure out a good academic placement that she would actually enjoy, because anymore it's really hard not to have at least a 4 year degree, but in parallel I'd be helping her design a gap year that would build her resume and give her the experience to make a more informed decision about her future.  She might be right, in which case a good gap year would help everyone to know that.  She might be wrong, in which case it would help her to go in another direction.   Those could each be good outcomes.

Also, I don't know what your faith background is, but I know someone who was the editor of our conservative church's magazine, and who left that job a while after marrying a lovely farmer.  She is happily raising a growing collection of children and really happy doing so.  I could connect them if that seems appropriate.  I am sure that my acquaintance would be happy to talk with your daughter.

Edited December 27, 2019 by Carol in Cal.

[Ann.without.an.e]

11 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

I didn’t need necessary advice from her, I needed support. I WAS smart, and had a pretty good understanding of the tradeoffs I was making.  But if she (or you) had just laid those out once over lunch and left it be without the guilt and berating it would have gone over much better.  In the end, the best mom choice she could have made was teaching me more effective skills for my chosen vocation (homeschooling and home making) and less comments on how college was the only valid path for someone who was academically gifted, as though that was all to life there was and any other use of life was a waste.

 

I have actually been supportive of dd and others have faulted me for it and questioned me on it.  I can see that she has zero desire for an academic environment.  She says if there was a career she wanted that needed a degree then she would see it as a stepping stone to the bigger thing she wanted but that isn't the case.  

Thanks for sharing your story.  I got married a few weeks shy of 20 so I understand.  This day and age that isn't common though and no girl can bank on getting married.  She loves the Lord and she is super cute, several people have told me not to worry about it, they can't imagine her staying single haha.  I might PM you with the rest of my thoughts. 

[mom2scouts]

I would support her goals. It's her life and she gets to decide how to live it. College isn't for everyone, not even the brilliant. I do understand your concern a bit. I have a very highly gifted child who graduated at 16 and had an almost perfect ACT score. He hated school and academics, but he went on to college where he skipped class and promptly flunked out. He's done some amazing and unusual things since then and I wouldn't say he is unsuccessful. He also eventually went back to school and is just about to graduate with a chemistry degree which he plans to use in an unconventional way. Your dd sounds like she has thought things through and has a good idea of the kind of life she wants. Support her dreams and she might really surprise you. And let's be honest, she's still young and it's not like she can't change her mind, go to college, and follow a different path if this one really isn't the right choice for her.

[Ann.without.an.e]

10 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

Is she burned out from school?  are you in a position to support her business experiments? how thorough is her plan?  does she understand it's the backroom that kills most businesses? (and most people aren't willing to put up with the deprivation while starting a business.) Is she wiling to take business courses on the side?  is there a business networking group in your area with people to whom she could speak about the realties of starting your own business?

I've known kids, especially after health issues, who needed break time to mentally recover as well as the physical before going back to school.  I also know kids who took their college money and started businesses.  

remember - bill gates was a college drop out.  we are long-time friends with one of his father's law partners (we found out later my mother went to high school with him,.).  I was chatting with (law-partner's) wife (don't remember how it came up) - gates sr was raging around the office the day bill dropped out of college.

 

I think she is in part simply burned out but also this is what she has always wanted to do.  I have considered extending high school a year to help her have a reprieve and regroup this year.  She is willing to learn.  

[marbel]

"Brilliant" doesn't necessarily equal "following a conventional path."   

One of my kids is not academic at all. She hated all her high school (homeschool) work except for art. For a while she wasn't going to go to college. I told her to continue working as though she was going to college, so she did not close any doors. She ended up doing 2 years at community college and then transferred to a wonderful school to finish her degree. 

So how could she continue her education in high school to follow her dreams while keeping doors open? Does she have to take calculus? Why wouldn't a business/finance class be just as good? If she ended up wanting to go to college because it would be good as a farmer to have a degree, would not having taken calculus in high school stop her?  And if she decided to go to college, does she have to go to a top ten school or would a different sort of school be a better fit?  And, asking very gently, is it important to you that she get into an elite school rather than do something unconventional? (I don't expect an answer, but often parents have their own dreams for their kids.) 

 

Edited December 27, 2019 by marbel

[Guest]

My state has an Ag science summer program as part of the governor's school system. I agree with possibly looking at some ag schools to see what they have. 

 

I also wonder if she would like College of the Ozarks, where work, and agricultural work at that, is a big part of the curriculum. It's a beautiful place. 

[Ann.without.an.e]

28 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

Help her plan.  Teach her about planning and goal making and such.  You said she wants to drop calc and take business finance.  For someone who's chosen career is "farm, homestead, write" that sounds like a pretty solid decision.  Just, keep talking about what her long term plans are.  

II want to go back to a word I used there........................"career."   Truth is, not everyone needs or is fulfilled by a "career."  Money is necessary to survive in our society and the more money you can earn the easier that "survival" is, but truth is, for a lot of people, if they are just making enough to do what they want to do, that's good enough.    SO maybe approach it from a "do what she wants to do" sort of standpoint.  So she wants to "farm, homestead, write."  Ok, great......what does that actually look like?  What does her farm look like.  She wants to grow on your land.............................does she want to stay on your land and is that something even feasible?  Homesteading....what does that look like?  Has she been watching lots of Pioneer Woman and think it looks like that?  If so, perhaps steer her towards some of the more realistic examples, or maybe help her research the background of the Drummond family (there's a LOT of money behind that)  Writing.....like how...what kind.  How does she envision writing as a career?   And take this into the practical aspects....so she writes....how does she eat while she writes?  Farming....it takes a whole growing season to get potatoes and carrots and peppers and such......what is necessary to eat off that.  Farming and Homesteading are two things she mentioned.....maybe steer her towards some agribusiness classes?  

 

So basically, what she wants to do isn't invalid....but help her work through the practicalities and develop a plan for, you know, eating and sleeping under a roof, while doing that farming/homesteading/writing.

 

 

Great questions.  

We don't know anything about Pioneer Woman.  Her ideas come from the very large garden we have always kept and how much she loves working it and being outdoors.  She loves to cook and bake and can.  She loves the IG Roots and Refuge and their model is inspirational to her.  

[Ellie]

34 minutes ago, Attolia said:

I think she is in part simply burned out but also this is what she has always wanted to do.  I have considered extending high school a year to help her have a reprieve and regroup this year.  She is willing to learn.  

Please don't punish her by making "high school" a year longer. It won't be a "reprieve" and it won't help her "regroup." Once she has graduated, she can regroup if she wants to; and I don't know why spending a year longer, when she's been expecting to be finished, would be any kind of "reprieve."

[Ann.without.an.e]

2 minutes ago, Ellie said:

Please don't punish her by making "high school" a year longer. It won't be a "reprieve" and it won't help her "regroup." Once she has graduated, she can regroup if she wants to; and I don't know why spending a year longer, when she's been expecting to be finished, would be any kind of "reprieve."

 

I have considered this.  To be honest, it would be up to her in the end 😉 

If she felt like she needed a year longer to make this decision, we could extend due to sickness.  She lost so much of this year.  Almost a full semester.

[EmseB]

My thoughts are that college doesn't have to be this linear thing that starts right after high school and is completed in four years. I would have her make some concrete goals and see if some classes may be necessary (or not). I follow a lot of gardening social media; the marketing and business side of it is intense. Most people I know of doing well at it built a brand, do a lot of writing and photography, and work really really hard at the garden/farm aspect (Homestead & Chill is one of my favorite sites, but even she has a 9to5 still). It seems like your dd may be in an ideal place to start up something like that while she has some cushion living at home.

I had "a lot of potential" ending high school and enlisted in the military and finished college just shy of my 20yr high school reunion. In the meantime, I did what I really wanted, which was to be a homemaker. My eventual degree was the result of a combination of not wanting to let my college benefits from my service expire, wanting a just in case, and, honestly, just wanting to prove I could do it. But me going to college out of high school would have been a huge waste of money.

[SKL]

Sounds like she could go back any time if/when she changes her mind.  I have a brother who did his bachelor's in his 40s.

Have you had her talk to some successful farmers and discuss what kind of education is advisable?  It's not like successful farmers are uneducated.  Maybe that would inspire her to do some academics toward being the best farmer she can be. 

You say she is not materialistic.  I have a "less is more" daughter also.  However, you could point out that making money isn't just for buying frivolous things.  It's also for helping others in need.  Besides that, farming in particular has many ups and downs, so financial stability / savings is really crucial.  It's nice to say as a dependent teen that you don't care about money, but in reality we all need to care about it at some level.

But yes, I think you will have to relax a bit about the fact that your daughter doesn't want some of the things that are within easy reach for her.  One way or another, she will find a way to use her gifts.

[MercyA]

Others have already given terrific advice. I just wanted to say I admire your daughter for knowing what she wants! It sounds like she has lovely, wholesome, valuable plans for her life. Praying for a worthy husband for her. 😉 

[fairfarmhand]

I am commenting on this so later I can come back and give you a thorough answer. As a farmer's wife, who wanted what your dd wants, I have some pertinent thoughts...back soon.

[ktgrok]

1 hour ago, Arctic Mama said:

Honestly this is what my mom went through when I got married, dropped out, and had kids during college.  I knew what I wanted and that this was a better life path for me (I’d only been going to school as a way to pass time and gain work skills but my heart wasn’t in those career paths, however I wanted to be prepared just in case).

It KILLED my mom. Like, the whole lecture of “but you’re so smart and this is such a waste” and “what if he leaves you” or “you have so much potential for more than this”, despite the fact that she was a SAHM herself.

The fact is, I never regretted it.  I do wish I’d had more time to finish that just in case degree but it would have been in a field irrelevant to my current life.  I couldn’t have known what needs and turns our lives would take, and if I need to go back to school now, as someone married a decade and half, I still definitely could.  But still it took my mom a good five or six years to come to me and say I’d been right, I married well, and I was doing an excellent and fulfilling job teaching my own kids and managing a home, which was my dream all along.  
 

I didn’t need necessary advice from her, I needed support. I WAS smart, and had a pretty good understanding of the tradeoffs I was making.  But if she (or you) had just laid those out once over lunch and left it be without the guilt and berating it would have gone over much better.  In the end, the best mom choice she could have made was teaching me more effective skills for my chosen vocation (homeschooling and home making) and less comments on how college was the only valid path for someone who was academically gifted, as though that was all to life there was and any other use of life was a waste.

yup. 

I love to learn, hate school. And all I ever wanted to be was a mom. I did enjoy working in a veterinary clinic, but like staying home more. 

But - as stated above, you never know. Looking into some kind of certification/AA/AS something to have as a stepping stone if she needs to enter the workforce in a more traditional way someday is part of planning. She may not be materialistic, but someday if she has kids they may need expensive therapies, or medical care, or her husband may become ill and unable to work, or in an accident and unable to work, etc and she will have to pick up the slack. I ended up a single mom for a time. We never plan those things, but we can be prepared for them. 

And the fact is, although a lot of money won't make you happy, too little can make you pretty unhappy. Things like health insurance cost money, taxes cost money, etc etc. 

1 hour ago, Carol in Cal. said:

There are a lot of farming internships, and it might not be a bad idea to try out one and see whether she really likes it so much or not.

I know that I love the *idea* of farming, and the *planning* of farming, but I don't like to garden and I have allergies.  I could be a farm wife of the 'making tons of great food' type, and even preserves and canning, but I wouldn't do well with the outdoor physicality of good sustainable ag.  She needs to find that out before she sets herself on this path too irrevocably.  (Of course, maybe she already has, but it didn't sound like it.)

What does she like to write about?  Has she participated in writers' workshops or anything like that?  There are writing fellowships here and there for young people who want to get a stipend, living/working space, and be able to focus on a specific work.  She might try for some of those.

Regarding college, I know that it's hard to give up 'a lot of potential' but I wonder whether a more low key setting might suit her better.  There are a lot of unique universities out there, and she might find value in visiting some of them.  Just to throw out a few--St. John's College in Santa Fe is a traditional liberal arts college that sounds very much like a traditional Cambridge type education--great books, discussions, a small cohort, precise and expansive discourse, focus on Great Books to the extent that even the (few) STEM classes are geared toward history and great books and the great conversation.  I have a friend who has two kids in Hillsdale, which is a conservative, specifically Christian friendly liberal arts university--she is very happy with them there.  There is a small, decidedly not conservative liberal arts college in Vermont (Middlebury College) where kids basically design their own majors and figure out what they want to study in an atmosphere of bubbling independence and wild creativity.  These are all very small institutions that might suit her a lot better than a big university or a super competitive one.  Getting information about some of these educational options and visiting them might be a great time investment.  She might benefit from studying agriculture--there are good colleges that have programs that are less 'big ag' than they used to be, and there is a lot of efficient information procurement to be had at some of them.

If this was my kid, I think I would try to figure out a good academic placement that she would actually enjoy, because anymore it's really hard not to have at least a 4 year degree, but in parallel I'd be helping her design a gap year that would build her resume and give her the experience to make a more informed decision about her future.  She might be right, in which case a good gap year would help everyone to know that.  She might be wrong, in which case it would help her to go in another direction.   Those could each be good outcomes.

Also, I don't know what your faith background is, but I know someone who was the editor of our conservative church's magazine, and who left that job a while after marrying a lovely farmer.  She is happily raising a growing collection of children and really happy doing so.  I could connect them if that seems appropriate.  I am sure that my acquaintance would be happy to talk with your daughter.

 

44 minutes ago, dmmetler said:

My state has an Ag science summer program as part of the governor's school system. I agree with possibly looking at some ag schools to see what they have. 

 

I also wonder if she would like College of the Ozarks, where work, and agricultural work at that, is a big part of the curriculum. It's a beautiful place. 

I agree with both of these that it might be worth looking at colleges NOTHING like what her sister went to. That might be a really cool design your own program school, or it might be a quick and dirty AA at the community college, or an online degree via who knows where that she can work on in the evening when farm chores are done. 

Also, her pursuits are all things she'd do on her own, at home - part of a plan for a healthy life will be figuring out how she will live in community - when/how will she spend time with others? If not in a college setting, then how? Book club? Writer's club? Church group? Soup kitchen?

22 minutes ago, Ellie said:

Please don't punish her by making "high school" a year longer. It won't be a "reprieve" and it won't help her "regroup." Once she has graduated, she can regroup if she wants to; and I don't know why spending a year longer, when she's been expecting to be finished, would be any kind of "reprieve."

Agree totally. A gap year while she figures it out is perfect. But not more school. 

[unsinkable]

25 minutes ago, Ellie said:

Please don't punish her by making "high school" a year longer. It won't be a "reprieve" and it won't help her "regroup." Once she has graduated, she can regroup if she wants to; and I don't know why spending a year longer, when she's been expecting to be finished, would be any kind of "reprieve."

Oh my goodness, yes.

I'd graduate her ASAP. See what minimum credits she needs for a high school diploma in your state and have her finish the least painless way possible. At the highest level high schools in my area, most kids have earned enough credits for a diploma by end of junior year. 

if she got so delayed by health issues once, I'd be making hay while the sun shines. IOW, finish her diploma in case she gets sick again.

[Ottakee]

Before you officially graduate her, does your state/area offer any tech center type programs for highschool students?  Our county has one with 28 areas of study from EMT, to computer design to electrical to agricultural studies.....yes, they have a program for learning agricultural sciences....growing plants and animals (barn with live animals) to the business side of running a farm to weather, science of seeds and fertilizer, etc.  They have several focus areas to chose from.

This is all free to non highschool graduates in our county.  It is every day, half day for a school year.

Some students go right into farming, others go to the State University where they study vet tech, pre vet, agricultural sciences, horticulture, etc.

Something like this at the local or state level might interest her.

[mathnerd]

3 minutes ago, SKL said:

Sounds like she could go back any time if/when she changes her mind.  I have a brother who did his bachelor's in his 40s.

Have you had her talk to some successful farmers and discuss what kind of education is advisable?  It's not like successful farmers are uneducated.  Maybe that would inspire her to do some academics toward being the best farmer she can be. 

You say she is not materialistic.  I have a "less is more" daughter also.  However, you could point out that making money isn't just for buying frivolous things.  It's also for helping others in need.  Besides that, farming in particular has many ups and downs, so financial stability / savings is really crucial.  It's nice to say as a dependent teen that you don't care about money, but in reality we all need to care about it at some level.

But yes, I think you will have to relax a bit about the fact that your daughter doesn't want some of the things that are within easy reach for her.  One way or another, she will find a way to use her gifts.

I agree with this. It is her life and she can make her choice at this point on how to move forward. But, as a parent, you could support her while also pointing out that her chosen lifestyle has many uncertainties and dependencies that she has not taken into account. For e.g. how will she support herself and her homestead - she needs land, capital, living expenses, a vehicle or two, labor etc. If she is hoping to live with you and work on your land for the long term, have you discussed this? 

Farming and homesteading are difficult lifestyles - granted, youtube and instagram make it look wonderful, but, coming from a family that has been in agriculture for generations, I can say for sure that there is much physical labor involved, much uncertainty in outcomes and it is not always fulfilling (my family has been through droughts, pest/diseases, water restrictions, financial losses, bankruptcies etc. things beyond their control). Those are just the downsides of it. There are several upsides to that lifestyle as well. She needs to educate herself about what this involves, what it takes to be successful regardless of the scale of her homestead, how she is going to fund her homestead, what kind of money her writing will bring in, how she is going to manage people and budgets (medium sized homesteads also require helpers frequently), how much supplementary income she needs to budget for, how she will afford things like health insurance etc. One suggestion would be to get exposed to personal finance (accounting, bookkeeping, money management, budgeting) and also to look into what the local agricultural university offers in terms of training for farmers - this would be a good education for her future plans and also help her understand what her career involves. She could do all of this in a low stress environment, take hands on classes at the agriculture university, go to your local CC to learn personal finances and such at any stage of her life.

[EKS]

1 hour ago, gardenmom5 said:

remember - bill gates was a college drop out.

People always like to point this out when discussing this issue, but the fact is that there is one Bill Gates, and the majority of new businesses fail.

To the OP:

Have you considered having the rest of her time homeschooling being "experiential"?  I seriously considered trying something like this with my younger son when he was going through something similar (though not as extreme).  She could then continue the experience in the form of a gap year.  The idea would be to allow her the time she needs to decompress from academics while giving her time to follow her muse and still keeping college on the table.  If she were my daughter, I'd be concerned about putting college off indefinitely since it gets much, much harder to go back to school the longer you wait, especially once children are involved.

[maize]

2 hours ago, Attolia said:

 

I have actually been supportive of dd and others have faulted me for it and questioned me on it.  I can see that she has zero desire for an academic environment.  She says if there was a career she wanted that needed a degree then she would see it as a stepping stone to the bigger thing she wanted but that isn't the case.  

Thanks for sharing your story.  I got married a few weeks shy of 20 so I understand.  This day and age that isn't common though and no girl can bank on getting married.  She loves the Lord and she is super cute, several people have told me not to worry about it, they can't imagine her staying single haha.  I might PM you with the rest of my thoughts. 

It isn't just about whether she gets married or not.

At home moms are vulnerable should anything happen that disrupts their marriage or their spouse's earning potential--spouse becomes abusive, spouse runs of with another woman, spouse becomes disabled, spouse suffers long period of unemployment, spouse dies...

There has to be a backup plan that does not rely on spousal support. It sounds like she does have one--an entrepreneurial organic farming venture. Given the difficulty (not impossibility) of running such a business profitably I would say have a backup plan to the backup plan.

[gardenmom5]

34 minutes ago, EKS said:

People always like to point this out when discussing this issue, but the fact is that there is one Bill Gates, and the majority of new businesses fail.

To the OP:

Have you considered having the rest of her time homeschooling being "experiential"?  I seriously considered trying something like this with my younger son when he was going through something similar (though not as extreme).  She could then continue the experience in the form of a gap year.  The idea would be to allow her the time she needs to decompress from academics while giving her time to follow her muse and still keeping college on the table.  If she were my daughter, I'd be concerned about putting college off indefinitely since it gets much, much harder to go back to school the longer you wait, especially once children are involved.

we have our own business.  dh's has been involved with start-ups that failed before taking full control and doing one that succeeded.  We have friends who did start-ups that eventually failed because of partners, before taking full control and being successful. (and it was ALWAYS the back-room that killed them. you can't control other people, especially if they want to spend money the business doesn't have.).  I'm well aware of what is required to make a business successful.  - I brought up the fact most people aren't willing to live with the deprivation required to make a business work. (assuming they have a workable plan.  - which I also brought up as essential.)

bill gates will tell people to go to college.  I only brought that story up to show even he frustrated his father.

[catz]

I think that is absolutely fine.  College is not something you MUST do at 18.  Maybe she'll change her mind later.  If anxiety and the desire to follow another path are strong right now, that is great.  Many students get to college and are unable to be successful due to things like anxiety.  That is no small thing.  I'd encourage her to fulfill basic graduation requirements and get tied into part time employment and start earning money.  

I would encourage her toward learning skills and vocation and having a path to earning a basic living.  Even if she imagines herself marrying and raising kids as a goal.  I know more than one mom her found her self unexpectedly as the sole wage earner after not working for a number of years.  It happens.  Organic farming path for young people here is very hip right now.  But many just do it through internships and maybe for a few years.  It's tough to earn a living that way  and you need seed money to get started.  I'd keep talking through the realities of the finances.  

[SBauer]

Oh do I ever relate to her!

I dropped out of high school as a promising student (not as gifted as her mind you) at the beginning of my junior year.  I began advocating for my education myself.  I found a correspondence school, a tutor, and took some community college classes.  I wanted to be a self-sufficient farmer/rancher, I spent much of my time dreaming, researching, and making lists about it.  My psychiatrist's basic response was that I was hiding in a dream outside of reality.  Now, I fully understand where he is coming from, as a successful suburban doctor, but he was wrong.  God has put this amazing desire in my heart and I'm still working out how it all fits together.  I went to college because I didn't know any other way to learn how to become a farmer.  I left Illinois and went to a state university in the west.  It was SO different.  I felt different directing myself and choosing what I wanted to learn.   I ended up taking Agriculture and Home Ec in high school instead of honors physics.  I moved back to Illinois and I own a large organic farm and ranch.  My husband and I sell grassfed freezer meat.  I have a garden and an orchard.  I have begun a master's degree in clinical herbalism and a permaculture certification class.  It is HARD.  I feel defeated A LOT, no matter how successful that sounded.  BUT I still want it, this very real delicate balance of everyday, fighting for our most basic needs.

 

She can learn everything she needs to know in more than one way.  College is one of many, and does not have to start full time at 18.  I highly encourage you to try to bring her to LaCrosse, Wisconsin this February to the MOSES Organic conference, even if you don't live in the Mid West because it is old, huge, well-planned, and formidable!.  You missed Acres-USA (more national) the first week of December.  She can learn from these folks what she needs to learn, how to find the information, where to go next.   Listen to her as she chooses which round table discussions she wants to go to, or which "track" seems best to follow through the conference, and try to give her your best advise about which sessions sound good, also get some from the people working there, they do this for a living.  Let me know if I can answer any other questions.  I live this, and I did live this, I totally know what it is like, and I love to help people with this kind of thing.  I think if you went to this conference you may see the amazing "revolution" she can take part in and lend her intelligence in a way that will help impact the world, while at the same time following her passion.  You will never have to feel like she took "second" or last chair to being something "upstanding" to become a dirt farmer (my dad's words).

 

[catz]

2 hours ago, Ellie said:

Please don't punish her by making "high school" a year longer. It won't be a "reprieve" and it won't help her "regroup." Once she has graduated, she can regroup if she wants to; and I don't know why spending a year longer, when she's been expecting to be finished, would be any kind of "reprieve."

This might not feel like punishment to some kids.  It may feel like the opportunity to have another year of childhood  and it may feel like a year's reprieve of society's pressures on 18 year olds to magically know everything about their future.  I'd never advocate forcing that, but I'm currently considering it for a younger for grade kid that has good dual enrollment opportunities for free that is a little socially quirky and anxious.

Edited December 28, 2019 by FuzzyCatz

[SereneHome]

I am going to ignore "brilliant" and "farming" bc 1) I never know what brilliant means and 2) bc I don't know anything about farming...so I'll comment on what i do know...

1.  I think very few people really REALLY know what they want to do with their lives from an early age and in my experience if that's the case, they become quite successful at it.  If your daughter has seen this one and only path for herself, I would trust her with that.

2.  I see college as one way of obtaining a profession. I have an advanced degree and the ONLY reason I went to college and got my degrees bc I had no idea what else I could do and how else I could earn money.  And ability to earn money on my own has always been my number one goal. I am sure we all have numerous examples of how college made life better or worse and how lack of college made life better or worse. But college is certainly not the answer for everyone, even if they get 100% free ride.

3. A person doesn't have to be materialistic to understand the importance of being able to earn a living. But it sounds like your daughter has a plan - wanting to take Finance classes is a great start.

So, all of this is to say - I would let her do her thing.  At least for now. And for full disclosure  - it would be super hard for me bc I am such a "traditional path" person and soooo risk averse.  But it truly sounds like your daughter has a good head on her shoulders and has a solid idea about what she wants out of life.  Good luck!!!!!

 

[unsinkable]

Who was the mom here from years ago...5 kids...oldest was a DD...She loved goats so they moved to an area for the DD to have goats. DD started a goat's milk soap business, and maybe pure goat's milk, too.

But the DD had originally NOT been planning on college and then ended up going. So she had her goat business as well as started college...

Anyone remember?

[Scarlett]

Just now, unsinkable said:

Who was the mom here from years ago...5 kids...oldest was a DD...She loved goats so they moved to an area for the DD to have goats. DD started a goat's milk soap business, and maybe pure goat's milk, too.

But the DD had originally NOT been planning on college and then ended up going. So she had her goat business as well as started college...

Anyone remember?

You remember so much detail!  

[WendyLady]

My parents are farmers and have the cutest you pick raspberry farm. They have built it up over the last 15 years. Both my dad and my mom work sun up to sun down during harvest season and all spring and most of the winter. everyone loves their little spot of paradise - they are “famous” in their area. While Christmas shopping last week with my mom in a bigger town 20 miles away from their farm, the checkout girl recognized my mom and they chatted about raspberries. It is really cool. But it is such hard physical work. And they basically make enough money to support the farm for the next year. It’s my dads retirement hobby, not a money maker.
 

My sister and her husband also farm a much larger apple and pear farm. They are wealthy on paper (if they sold everything) but they inherited the land, etc. My sister does not have a college degree. Along with running the farm finances, moving sprinklers, supervising farm workers, working harvest, raising a family, she has also worked at Safeway for 25 years to have a steady income and Health insurance for their family.

Their farm is amazing and I’m so impressed with them, but farming is a really tricky job to work your way into. Land is expensive. BUT my dad would be so proud of your daughter!! Farming is my dad’s life. He teaches it, he consults others, and spends everyday working with the land. He is sad that when they go to farm meetings and shows/conventions everyone is old like them - he worries that as all the old farmers die off, no one will be there to step in and take their places. Maybe your dd could find a farm to intern on this spring?  I would agree that a working farm is different from a big home garden.  
 

Totally different direction. I just finished reading Gretchen Rubin’s The Four Tendencies about how different people respond to inner and outer expectations. Your dd sounds like my dd21 who is a “rebel” and needs to choose her own path for education and everything else to find happiness.  Read some of her writing about the 4 tendencies and see if it’s a fit for your dd, not to type cast her, but to educate yourself (and her) about the best way to motivate and encourage her as she gets ready to make so many important life choices over the next few years.

Gretchen’s ideas about this has been really helpful for me to reframe how I communicate with my dd, to learn how to back off and allow my dd soar (or not, totally her choice!)  I would hate for my dd to miss out on important life development because someone “told her” to do it - my daughter’s response to expectation and direction is to go the complete other way. I love this about her, she is amazing and full of surprises, and we prefer “free spirit” rather than “rebel”. 

This may not match up with your dd at all, but just take a few minutes to take the quiz for her... 

Four Tendencies Intro
 

Edited December 28, 2019 by WendyLady
breaking up into paragraphs

[Pen]

My son dislikes academics also , and I know some of the feelings of parental concern that may go with that.  However, there are plenty of good routes in life that aren’t particularly academic.  And it is their life to live.  And a more healthful pursuit seems like a good idea for her.  Besides she may be doing well as an organic farmer when jobs that might seem more secure now have been taken over by robots. Who knows. 

Organic farming is potentially a great area to go into.  We are in an area with many organic farms.   And unlike restaurants that seem to go under frequently, the farms seem to be more robust, especially if they can become a CSA or get a niche area for sales.  

Some of the larger organic farms (or even sometimes small ones) take summer (and sometimes other season) interns, which could be a way she could learn about organic farming—besides just doing it on her own.  

 

[marbel]

51 minutes ago, maize said:

It isn't just about whether she gets married or not.

At home moms are vulnerable should anything happen that disrupts their marriage or their spouse's earning potential--spouse becomes abusive, spouse runs of with another woman, spouse becomes disabled, spouse suffers long period of unemployment, spouse dies...

There has to be a backup plan that does not rely on spousal support. It sounds like she does have one--an entrepreneurial organic farming venture. Given the difficulty (not impossibility) of running such a business profitably I would say have a backup plan to the backup plan.

This is me. My husband isn't abusive or disabled, didn't run off, but he was laid off and between that and other circumstances, is taking a long time to get back to work. So I am working, after being home for 20+ years as a homeschooler/homemaker - just when I thought I was going to be "retired."

Now, whenever a young woman tells me her plan is to be a wife and mother, I say great, but  have a backup. Don't check out for years and end up in low-skill job because you thought you were all set with this great husband with a job that paid all the bills. 

But I agree, OP's daughter seems to have the beginnings of a  plan. 

ETA: Most likely she has heard of Joel Salatin and Polyface Farms, but putting this here just in case:  http://www.polyfacefarms.com/apprenticeship/

Edited December 28, 2019 by marbel

[mominco]

18 minutes ago, unsinkable said:

Who was the mom here from years ago...5 kids...oldest was a DD...She loved goats so they moved to an area for the DD to have goats. DD started a goat's milk soap business, and maybe pure goat's milk, too.

But the DD had originally NOT been planning on college and then ended up going. So she had her goat business as well as started college...

Anyone remember?

I know who you are talking about unfortunately cannot remember her name.She was from Texas.Will check my old bookmarks for the website!

[unsinkable]

21 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

You remember so much detail!  

LOL...well, if I'm remembering her accurately, she and her DD were really memorable!

[Caroline]

33 minutes ago, unsinkable said:

LOL...well, if I'm remembering her accurately, she and her DD were really memorable!

amy g

The family moved to California and the older two kids stayed in Texas. I think the older daughter was finishing her PhD. I wish I could remember the name of her business. I liked the soap I ordered from them many years ago. 

[RootAnn]

Dancing Dog dairy, but the website doesn't seem to be working.

http://www.dancingdogdairy.com

[mum]

We had 2 graduate high school the same year and neither wanted to go to college. One was a great student and one was profoundly gifted.

We listened to what they DID want to do, talked about what college would offer that would support those goals and also promised that if they went to college for 2 years they were welcome to take a gap year at that point, which we would pay for (they knew the budget so they knew that would be along the lines of volunteering in a country where we had friends that they could live with cheaply).  

They both went to college, and continued with regular grumbling. They required varying levels of support at various stages, one changed major 3 times, one didn’t declare a major till junior year. Both travelled in the summer, to friends in foreign countries who would keep them. That satisfied the need for adventure. 

At the end of 2 years, neither chose a gap year. Both had found their niche and chose to finish. One chose to go on for a masters (the one that was most resistant about college). 

All that to say, we listened a LOT, we gave a good deal of support in the first 2 years, they knew that we understood what they wanted, and they understood from us that in our opinion it was a big door to choose to close, that they would have the absolute freedom to do whatever they chose to after college, that discussion was always open, but that in our opinion college would give them the most choices in the long run. 

For our two, one is working in their major field and one is working in something completely different than major, but in a job that does require a degree. Both still say they did not love college but both will also say that they are where they are because of it. 

[Scarlett]

People take all sorts of paths in life.  Of course she has no real idea about how to implement her dreams.....few high school graduates do.  

Support her in all the ways you can.  Certainly emotionally.

Love her.

Let her live her life.  Which may not be your dream for her.  

[J-rap]

She sounds a little like my dd.  My dd is very smart, but became tired of school.  She had a lot of health problems starting at age 16.  We were homeschooling, and I really had to give her the minimal amount of work that she could handle in order to graduate her.  BUT, she is very ambitious and not lazy at all.  So, we felt okay about her choosing another path.  College isn't for everyone.  Of course, it takes a little while to get used to this...  Society tells us that college is a must.  It took her a few years to sort through everything, and we did help advise and help set some things in place for her during that time, and she also needed time to get her health under control.  (It is still not under control, but she's more comfortable with it now and not overwhelmed.)  

She now manages a large city country club, and plays gigs as a musician.  She's very happy.  She'd like to start her own business someday, and has a lot of ideas.  I have no doubt that she could do that if she set her mind to it.  Her deepest desire though is to be a wife and a mom.  (Hasn't found the right partner yet!)  

Anyway, just to set your mind at ease that for a smart, ambitious person, this path is probably perfectly fine.  We did encourage our dd to take a couple business classes, etc., but she'd rather learn on the job and this is what she has done.  It seems to be working okay for her!

[ScoutTN]

Seconding a farm internship. 

[mathnerd]

3 hours ago, RootAnn said:

Dancing Dog dairy, but the website doesn't seem to be working.

http://www.dancingdogdairy.com

I was curious and googled about this farm: they are active on facebook and have recent posts there.

[BeachGal]

I second the idea to take some time off to try out her ideas. IMO, a lot of college kids have had very few opportunities to explore career options and try out ideas. Later, if need be, she can study what truly interests her.

[Murphy101]

18 hours ago, dmmetler said:

My state has an Ag science summer program as part of the governor's school system. I agree with possibly looking at some ag schools to see what they have. 

 

I also wonder if she would like College of the Ozarks, where work, and agricultural work at that, is a big part of the curriculum. It's a beautiful place. 

This.   She needs to know there are colleges out there with very hands on amazing programs.  And farming is a lot more business and science than she might realize. Oklahoma and Colorado also have some amazing ag schools. 

I think it’s fine to want to be a wife and mother but so much of that is beyond her control. What if she doesn’t meet the right guy until she’s much older? What if she has difficulties with pregnancy? What if because they both work their own farm, they realize they can’t afford the medical bills to have a baby? And frankly even if she does meet me great guy young and has a bunch of kids - those kids still grow up and often away. And isn’t it a great example to them to see that having a family doesn’t end personal interests learning and  passions? A woman needs to maintain that regardless of children or the sadly often fickle hearts of men.

While she may go to college later, it doesn’t get easier or cheaper.  And college is one of the few places she can go to be surrounded every day by people who share her interests and mentors who can guide her about that interest.  It is also where she will be most likely to find a man who shares her interest. Just some things for her to consider.

I don’t care much about material goods either but anyone who says money doesn’t buy happiness has never felt genuine want in life. It dang well buys just about everything that brings happiness. Food, clothing, shelter, opportunity, education, medical care, travel...

Aside from all of that, I think the OP and husband should have a private talk about what they can and will support.  Because I don’t care how anxious or smart she is, an honest talk about how much financial help you are willing to contribute and what responsibilities you expect of her if she isn’t in school should be clear to remove prime strife fodder from the near future. 

Edited December 28, 2019 by Murphy101

[Katy]

Farming is a multi million dollar business.  She'll need to understand both agricultural and business topics to succeed. 

There are plenty of women farmers whose husbands do something else entirely, but to many it's a family business.  Most states have a good agricultural program at ONE of their state universities.  If she did that great she can probably get a free ride AND find a husband.

Maybe she needs a gap year to decompress but I'd seriously want her to write two full business plans, one with college and one without and do a full presentation to both of you in order for her to use your land or other resources.  If she doesn't want to make the effort to put in that much work I'd assume she doesn't have what it's take at this point to move in that direction.  Farming, especially niche organic farming involves a lot of hoop jumping and cash reserves.

[vmsurbat1]

Quote

And college is one of the few places she can go to be surrounded every day by people who share her interests and mentors who can guide her about that interest.  It is also where she will be most likely to find a man who shares her interest. Just some things for her to consider.

I think this is an important aspect to share with your daughter.  Attending college doesn't have to be and really, ought not to be, a mere continuation of the "high school experience." 

I always told my children that college was far more fun and interesting than high school just because you get to choose so much more--choose your classes, choose your circle of friends, choose your experiences to a greater degree.   All five of mine have now graduated (some from large state universities, some from elite colleges, and some from small private liberal arts colleges) and all agree with me.  College can be more than just academics--my children have made lifelong friends (both classmates and professors) during their college years.

[Eos]

*

Edited February 6, 2023 by Eos

[PeterPan]

14 hours ago, Attolia said:

So what does a mom do to support, lead, and help her think through and process these desires?  What can I do that doesn't squash her dreams and supports them but makes sure this is a decent direction?  I won't lie, this had led to some anxious thoughts on my part.

Fwiw, there's a difference between figuring out how to support her and figuring out what she needs to do. You said she's brilliant, so let HER figure out what to do and don't even try. If she's wanting to take some business classes, she has her head on straight.

College will be there later. It's not like saying no to it now is saying no forever. However if she went to college and got really stressed and crashed her health, that could be really hard to recover from. It sounds like she's making a HEALTHY choice for her. It sounds like rat race isn't what is good for her, and there are lower key schools (schools you can go to any time) that she might choose later if she needs a little something.

Her plan sounds fine to me. I don't really get the rush to graduate thing. Just talk with her. She might be able to slowly ramp up her business plans as she slowly ramps down her academics, or you could convert her business plans into academic credits. I'd just kind of wind it up in a natural way, so that she has a transcript that helps her go forward to do whatever she wants later. Beyond that, just let her do it. There's not an issue. She's going to have some basic things to think through, like where to get the funding, and you're going to have some things to think through, like what ownership/financial part you want in this. And I'd throw that on her. Let her figure out her life. That's why she has this brain, and it sounds like she's willing to.

[PeterPan]

5 hours ago, Katy said:

Farming is a multi million dollar business.

Is this really what she was saying she wanted?? I need to reread. In our part of the country, we have a lot of small organic farms that sell specialty things (turkeys, honey, etc.). There are people starting small organic farms Felton Homestead - LocalHarvesthttps://www.localharvest.org › felton-homestead-M73154  just to give work to people with disabilities. There are many ways to do this that are much lower key. 

It takes a number of years (from what I've been told by friends who did it) to get land certified organic. She's going to learn a lot going through this process, researching what it would take. 

I don't know, college has been destructive on my dd, between her anxiety and MTHFR defects and just propensities. You really might not like what happened if she went that way, and I think it's really insightful of the girl to be trying to find another path, something that is healthy for her. And she may research this for 6 months and realize the funds, the timing, etc. aren't what she wants. She may realize she'll have to take a job just to have the funding to start buying things. Missing the bigwig college recruiters is not the end of the world. There will be other options.

[PeterPan]

14 hours ago, Attolia said:

what she said (farm, homestead, write).

Are her writing skills good enough to freelance or somehow get a job? Can she make a *blog* about her farming adventure? I'd merge these somehow. She can get credit for them and maybe translate them into money for her farm adventure. Like don't * require* it but just toss it out as an option, see what she thinks. If you're not in a position to fund this, she'll very quickly need some paths to getting money, lol. 

The other thing you might do is very quietly continue to nurture her writing, via facilitating reading, via writing woven into life, etc. and make sure that everything she does turns into a decent, innovative transcript that reflects her. That way if she decides in 6 months or a year to pursue a degree (say in english, say online, say on the side), she has options. 

[unsinkable]

1 hour ago, PeterPan said:

Fwiw, there's a difference between figuring out how to support her and figuring out what she needs to do. You said she's brilliant, so let HER figure out what to do and don't even try. If she's wanting to take some business classes, she has her head on straight.

College will be there later. It's not like saying no to it now is saying no forever. However if she went to college and got really stressed and crashed her health, that could be really hard to recover from. It sounds like she's making a HEALTHY choice for her. It sounds like rat race isn't what is good for her, and there are lower key schools (schools you can go to any time) that she might choose later if she needs a little something.

Her plan sounds fine to me. I don't really get the rush to graduate thing. Just talk with her. She might be able to slowly ramp up her business plans as she slowly ramps down her academics, or you could convert her business plans into academic credits. I'd just kind of wind it up in a natural way, so that she has a transcript that helps her go forward to do whatever she wants later. Beyond that, just let her do it. There's not an issue. She's going to have some basic things to think through, like where to get the funding, and you're going to have some things to think through, like what ownership/financial part you want in this. And I'd throw that on her. Let her figure out her life. That's why she has this brain, and it sounds like she's willing to.

IMO, the "rush to graduate" to quote this post is bc this girl has ALREADY has had (IIRC) some serious health issues. So I see it as finishing high school while she is healthy, in case something else happens health-wise.

I also think a high school diploma as a BASIC minimal requirement for a young person in 2020, given the mental, physical and emotional health to do it. Which it sound like at this point, this girl is at that place. She might not always be in that place.

And for a third-ish reason...when she HAS the diploma, she'll be in a position to jump on things quickly, if she needs to, wants to or something arises. Again, IMO, for this girl, it'd be a shame if something special opened up or an opportunity was presented to her that could further her dreams/goals/life choices...and she's still working on her HS program when it could possibly have been completed.

I'm not saying to rush any and every person thru a HS diploma...I'm saying in THIS case, it is what I would give as advice, based on what Attolia has written about her daughter and this situation in particular.