DD 20 - No Period for 7 months

[jen3kids]

First off - She is 100% NOT pregnant.  This is just one of the weird things dd is dealing with 😞 ....

Dd (20) went off the BCP back in May and she still hasn't had a period.  She went on the pill around age 16 to deal with super heavy and irregular periods.   She has Hashimoto's, so there can be a hormonal aspect to that which is one of the reasons she went off of it.  On the pill, her periods became regular and quite light, to the point of nearly disappearing (which was concerning).  At that point, using tampons became painful and even now she has some sort of vulvodynia that may or may not have to do with being on the BCP.   Her gyn. changed her prescription to a lower dose and her periods came back, but then dd decided to go off them to see if it would improve the discomfort (it hasn't, she doesn't think, but the vulvodynia was worse when she was having her period).

Today, I saw my gyn and asked what she thought dd should do.  She said go back on the pill, but neither I nor DD want that.  Gyn said that dd's brain and ovaries are no longer speaking so putting her back on the pill would kickstart her ovaries, but I don't think that solves the problem.   Gyn also said that when dd does have a period, it is going to be very heavy 😞    Dd also has slightly elevated testosterone levels (sex hormones tested in Sept) that her regular dr. said can indicate PCOS.

Any thoughts on dealing with this?   Alternatives to the BCP?  What kind of specialist to talk to?  Natural ways to deal with this?  

[Bluegoat]

It seems like going on the pill is the go-to suggestion for a lot of things like this, but to me it seems like they never really look into what is actually going on.  

 

[EmseB]

I think in her shoes I would check to see if there is a NaPRO doctor in the area. It is Catholic based, but afaik they treat anyone looking for answers to gyn issues, especially that go beyond just telling women to take hormones to alleviate symptoms.

https://fertilitycare.org/what-is-naprotechnology

[kbutton]

PCOS sounds like a very real possibility. A reproductive endocrinologist might be a good bet. I hear mixed reviews of endos for thyroid, but I do know someone that has PCOS first and then Hashi's that had a good experience going the endocrinology route. 

Just a little bit of googling suggests that the two go together fairly often.

I would also be worried about premature ovarian failure.

[gardenmom5]

is she being treated for hashi's/PCOS?  by a ND, not a regular dr, and probably not an endocrinologist either.

[jen3kids]

23 minutes ago, Bluegoat said:

It seems like going on the pill is the go-to suggestion for a lot of things like this, but to me it seems like they never really look into what is actually going on.  

 

 

So true, and I am so frustrated by it.

 

16 minutes ago, EmseB said:

I think in her shoes I would check to see if there is a NaPRO doctor in the area. It is Catholic based, but afaik they treat anyone looking for answers to gyn issues, especially that go beyond just telling women to take hormones to alleviate symptoms.

https://fertilitycare.org/what-is-naprotechnology

 

Thank you.  There is one of those centers not too far from here.

 

[jen3kids]

2 minutes ago, kbutton said:

PCOS sounds like a very real possibility. A reproductive endocrinologist might be a good bet. I hear mixed reviews of endos for thyroid, but I do know someone that has PCOS first and then Hashi's that had a good experience going the endocrinology route. 

Just a little bit of googling suggests that the two go together fairly often.

I would also be worried about premature ovarian failure.

 

I agree that PCOS is a real possibility.  

Just now, gardenmom5 said:

is she being treated for hashi's/PCOS?  by a ND, not a regular dr, and probably not an endocrinologist either.

 

Dd did see a endocrinologist for the Hashi's at first, but she would only test T3 and T4, and didn't believe that dd's GI issues could be related to the Hashi's, so we went to an Integrative Med. doctor.   Unfortunately, the IM dr. suggested BCP, which really surprised me.  The IM Dr. was great for the Hashi's though, and dd's thyroid levels are pretty optimal right now.

[maize]

Hashimotos and PCOS seem to go together in my family--three of my sisters have both, and those of us who don't have hashimotos also don't have PCOS.

 

[J-rap]

That was me!  My periods were super irregular, and I was also a runner, so we didn't really know what caused it at first.  I'd often have just one or two periods a year.  Those were the days when I guess we didn't worry so much, and I was actually glad I didn't have periods often!  But, my doctor put me on BCPs to see if that would jump-start more regular cycles.  I was on the pill for about 6 months, but after that it was the same thing.  I never went back on the pill again, so that's how it was until I married and tried to have children.  Getting pregnant while ovulating just once or twice a year (and not on any schedule) was a problem.  After 3+ years of trying, my doctor put me on a fertility drug -- Clomid, and I became pregnant the first month I was on it!  Same with pregnancies #2 and #3.  For some reason after those pregnancies, my periods finally became more regular.  I also developed (I think in my early 20's?) some facial hair which I either bleach or pluck.

Two of my dd's have the same symptoms.  One of them was finally diagnosed with PCOS!  So, that's what I have.  I just never had the diagnosis.  I also have some thyroid problems  -- a form of Hashimotos (diagnosed in my 30's).   Nothing has ever been much of a problem except those years when I was trying to get pregnant before I took Clomid.  So, I took Clomid for pregnancies, and Synthroid for my thyroid (I actually had my entire thyroid removed), with no bad side effects, and I feel great.  I never went on BCP again after those few months in high school, and I didn't mind not having many periods.  Neither my mother or my sister have PCOS, but somehow I have it, so it's somewhere in our genes!

I imagine my dd's might have trouble getting pregnant if they decide to have children, but hopefully fertility drugs will work as well for them as they did for me.

[gardenmom5]

1 hour ago, jen3kids said:

 

I agree that PCOS is a real possibility.  

 

Dd did see a endocrinologist for the Hashi's at first, but she would only test T3 and T4, and didn't believe that dd's GI issues could be related to the Hashi's, so we went to an Integrative Med. doctor.   Unfortunately, the IM dr. suggested BCP, which really surprised me.  The IM Dr. was great for the Hashi's though, and dd's thyroid levels are pretty optimal right now.

I'm in a thyroid community that despises Endos for this very reason.  

That's why I suggested a ND that does thyroid.

[jen3kids]

8 hours ago, maize said:

Hashimotos and PCOS seem to go together in my family--three of my sisters have both, and those of us who don't have hashimotos also don't have PCOS.

 

 

7 hours ago, J-rap said:

That was me!  My periods were super irregular, and I was also a runner, so we didn't really know what caused it at first.  I'd often have just one or two periods a year.  Those were the days when I guess we didn't worry so much, and I was actually glad I didn't have periods often!  But, my doctor put me on BCPs to see if that would jump-start more regular cycles.  I was on the pill for about 6 months, but after that it was the same thing.  I never went back on the pill again, so that's how it was until I married and tried to have children.  Getting pregnant while ovulating just once or twice a year (and not on any schedule) was a problem.  After 3+ years of trying, my doctor put me on a fertility drug -- Clomid, and I became pregnant the first month I was on it!  Same with pregnancies #2 and #3.  For some reason after those pregnancies, my periods finally became more regular.  I also developed (I think in my early 20's?) some facial hair which I either bleach or pluck.

Two of my dd's have the same symptoms.  One of them was finally diagnosed with PCOS!  So, that's what I have.  I just never had the diagnosis.  I also have some thyroid problems  -- a form of Hashimotos (diagnosed in my 30's).   Nothing has ever been much of a problem except those years when I was trying to get pregnant before I took Clomid.  So, I took Clomid for pregnancies, and Synthroid for my thyroid (I actually had my entire thyroid removed), with no bad side effects, and I feel great.  I never went on BCP again after those few months in high school, and I didn't mind not having many periods.  Neither my mother or my sister have PCOS, but somehow I have it, so it's somewhere in our genes!

I imagine my dd's might have trouble getting pregnant if they decide to have children, but hopefully fertility drugs will work as well for them as they did for me.

 

What do you and your dd/sisters do for the PCOS?  Is there a treatment for it?  Is there a natural way to decrease one's testosterone?   

7 hours ago, gardenmom5 said:

I'm in a thyroid community that despises Endos for this very reason.  

That's why I suggested a ND that does thyroid.

 

Is that the STTM group?  That's where I went after the first appointment with dd's endo - what an eye opener!  

[Momto6inIN]

I was on bcp from age 16 to 23 for intense pain and cramping during my periods. I also had a laparoscopy that revealed cysts on my ovaries, but I was never diagnosed with PCOS. Maybe you can have cysts but not PCOS, or maybe PCOS wasn't recognized back then (1990)? Anyway, the ob/gyn said bcp would take care of it and I guess it did for the most part.

When I got married we wanted to go off bcp and I didn't have a natural period for 1.5 years. I had to go to the ob/gyn every 3 months and he gave me an Rx for ??? (progesterone, maybe??? I can't remember) to induce a period to get all that built up endometrium out of there and it was h.e.a.v.y. each time. He wasn't optimistic that my hormone levels would ever allow me to conceive, but I finally did have a cycle on my own and actually was pretty fertile once I started cycling and I never went back on bcp. My periods aren't terribly regular and can be heavy, but I never went more than 2 months without one after that (other than pregnancy and nursing, of course).

I also was diagnosed with hypothyroidism after baby #3. I am convinced that all those hormones from bcp for all those years messed up my system in irreparable ways.

Perhaps ask the Dr if there is something he can give to induce a period?

[ScoutTN]

Acupuncture can be very helpful with female hormone problems. It works gradually to restore balance. 

Find a Traditional Chinese Medicine practitioner who sees his or her work as a complement to Western medicine, not a replacement for it. 

[jen3kids]

8 hours ago, Momto6inIN said:

I was on bcp from age 16 to 23 for intense pain and cramping during my periods. I also had a laparoscopy that revealed cysts on my ovaries, but I was never diagnosed with PCOS. Maybe you can have cysts but not PCOS, or maybe PCOS wasn't recognized back then (1990)? Anyway, the ob/gyn said bcp would take care of it and I guess it did for the most part.

When I got married we wanted to go off bcp and I didn't have a natural period for 1.5 years. I had to go to the ob/gyn every 3 months and he gave me an Rx for ??? (progesterone, maybe??? I can't remember) to induce a period to get all that built up endometrium out of there and it was h.e.a.v.y. each time. He wasn't optimistic that my hormone levels would ever allow me to conceive, but I finally did have a cycle on my own and actually was pretty fertile once I started cycling and I never went back on bcp. My periods aren't terribly regular and can be heavy, but I never went more than 2 months without one after that (other than pregnancy and nursing, of course).

I also was diagnosed with hypothyroidism after baby #3. I am convinced that all those hormones from bcp for all those years messed up my system in irreparable ways.

Perhaps ask the Dr if there is something he can give to induce a period?

 

Thank you.

Dd has never been checked for cysts, so perhaps that would be a start.  Yes, it makes sense that having a period after months of not having one they would be very heavy - she is not looking forward to that.   I wonder if there is a natural form of progesterone (or something?) that she can be given to induce a period.   

5 hours ago, ScoutTN said:

Acupuncture can be very helpful with female hormone problems. It works gradually to restore balance. 

Find a Traditional Chinese Medicine practitioner who sees his or her work as a complement to Western medicine, not a replacement for it. 

 

Dd already sees an acupuncturist, so she can ask about it.  Her acupuncturist does know about her period issues, so she may already be working on it.

[J-rap]

10 hours ago, Momto6inIN said:

I was on bcp from age 16 to 23 for intense pain and cramping during my periods. I also had a laparoscopy that revealed cysts on my ovaries, but I was never diagnosed with PCOS. Maybe you can have cysts but not PCOS, or maybe PCOS wasn't recognized back then (1990)? Anyway, the ob/gyn said bcp would take care of it and I guess it did for the most part.

When I got married we wanted to go off bcp and I didn't have a natural period for 1.5 years. I had to go to the ob/gyn every 3 months and he gave me an Rx for ??? (progesterone, maybe??? I can't remember) to induce a period to get all that built up endometrium out of there and it was h.e.a.v.y. each time. He wasn't optimistic that my hormone levels would ever allow me to conceive, but I finally did have a cycle on my own and actually was pretty fertile once I started cycling and I never went back on bcp. My periods aren't terribly regular and can be heavy, but I never went more than 2 months without one after that (other than pregnancy and nursing, of course).

I also was diagnosed with hypothyroidism after baby #3. I am convinced that all those hormones from bcp for all those years messed up my system in irreparable ways.

Perhaps ask the Dr if there is something he can give to induce a period?

I'd guess you have PCOS.  I don't think it was diagnosed much in the 90's.  I used to have cysts on my ovaries too, although they were always small and always went away on their own eventually.   There's probably a good chance that your irregular cycles are due to PCOS, not BCP's.

And actually, I think I tried progesterone at first, when we were trying to get pregnant.  I was on it for quite awhile with no success.  Clomid did the trick immediately.

 

[BlsdMama]

20 hours ago, jen3kids said:

First off - She is 100% NOT pregnant.  This is just one of the weird things dd is dealing with 😞 ....

Dd (20) went off the BCP back in May and she still hasn't had a period.  She went on the pill around age 16 to deal with super heavy and irregular periods.   She has Hashimoto's, so there can be a hormonal aspect to that which is one of the reasons she went off of it.  On the pill, her periods became regular and quite light, to the point of nearly disappearing (which was concerning).  At that point, using tampons became painful and even now she has some sort of vulvodynia that may or may not have to do with being on the BCP.   Her gyn. changed her prescription to a lower dose and her periods came back, but then dd decided to go off them to see if it would improve the discomfort (it hasn't, she doesn't think, but the vulvodynia was worse when she was having her period).

Today, I saw my gyn and asked what she thought dd should do.  She said go back on the pill, but neither I nor DD want that.  Gyn said that dd's brain and ovaries are no longer speaking so putting her back on the pill would kickstart her ovaries, but I don't think that solves the problem.   Gyn also said that when dd does have a period, it is going to be very heavy 😞    Dd also has slightly elevated testosterone levels (sex hormones tested in Sept) that her regular dr. said can indicate PCOS.

Any thoughts on dealing with this?   Alternatives to the BCP?  What kind of specialist to talk to?  Natural ways to deal with this?  

Is she extraordinarily thin?  DD(18) has been having some health issues and our pediatrician suggested she see a GYN before we look further.  She recommended someone specific that would consider natural alternatives than just BCP, which DD has no interest in.
She has lost weight recently, her tests are coming back off, and she's naturally very small in frame and slender, but has lost a rather alarming 11 pounds in the last couple months and is down to 98 lbs.  We're obviously concerned and continuing to follow up, but that aside, she saw the GYN yesterday.  She really suggested she attempt a gluten and dairy free diet initially, but especially because we have other kids in the family with dairy/gluten issues.  She needs to track protein and track fat carefully and stay the heck out of ketosis with healthy carb choices.  

This is the first to try.  If she sees resolution with weight gain and a period (they've been very irregular, skipping, and then longer when they do come) then continue to track.  If she doesn't, she suggested a kick start of 200mg progesterone for a couple weeks to see if her body naturally starts again.  Herbally, I'm going to have her add red raspberry leaf tea and will think about Vitex/Chaste Berry as a capsule.

I found this list of foods that naturally encourage progesterone production:
 

• Beans
• Broccoli
• Brussel sprouts
• Cabbage
• Cauliflower
• Kale
• Nuts
• Pumpkin
• Spinach
• Whole grains

Realize that beans contain anti-nutrients (phytates) that can impact nutrient absorption, so it's something to be mindful of.  Many with Hashimotos mention the Wahl diet has impact, but I'm biased because of my use of the diet, so your own research may be useful.  Pumpkin seeds are a source high in magnesium.  To have impact, you'd want 4-6 CUPS of green vegetables/cruciferous/sulfurs DAILY.  It's a real challenge.  I find a smoothie in the AM with spinach/kale and green SUJA, along with berries and coconut milk and powdered (dairy & GF free) bone broth is my go to.  Lunch is a large salad plus something on the side like sardines and an avocado.  Dinner is protein (meat/fish) with veggies and a salad on the side.

I hope this is useful.

I hope this helps.

[J-rap]

10 hours ago, jen3kids said:

 

 

What do you and your dd/sisters do for the PCOS?  Is there a treatment for it?  Is there a natural way to decrease one's testosterone?   

 

Is that the STTM group?  That's where I went after the first appointment with dd's endo - what an eye opener!  

We really don't treat it, except when I wanted to become pregnant.  (I expect my girls will need to do the same.)    However, one of my dd's who has darker facial hair than the rest of us has a prescription for Spironolactone.  It slows down facial hair growth and I guess reduces androgen levels.  I don't know about testosterone.  It doesn't do anything for irregular periods.  It's a prescription medicine though, not a natural treatment.

[RootAnn]

B6 helps your body make progesterone. Look into inositol for pcos/lowering testosterone levels. I had it recommended for helping to regulate periods.

She can do some of this while she's waiting to get into the fertility care places. I dislike how putting someone on bcp is the knee jerk reaction.

[jen3kids]

4 hours ago, BlsdMama said:

Is she extraordinarily thin?  DD(18) has been having some health issues and our pediatrician suggested she see a GYN before we look further.  She recommended someone specific that would consider natural alternatives than just BCP, which DD has no interest in.
She has lost weight recently, her tests are coming back off, and she's naturally very small in frame and slender, but has lost a rather alarming 11 pounds in the last couple months and is down to 98 lbs.  We're obviously concerned and continuing to follow up, but that aside, she saw the GYN yesterday.  She really suggested she attempt a gluten and dairy free diet initially, but especially because we have other kids in the family with dairy/gluten issues.  She needs to track protein and track fat carefully and stay the heck out of ketosis with healthy carb choices.  

This is the first to try.  If she sees resolution with weight gain and a period (they've been very irregular, skipping, and then longer when they do come) then continue to track.  If she doesn't, she suggested a kick start of 200mg progesterone for a couple weeks to see if her body naturally starts again.  Herbally, I'm going to have her add red raspberry leaf tea and will think about Vitex/Chaste Berry as a capsule.

I found this list of foods that naturally encourage progesterone production:
 

• Beans
• Broccoli
• Brussel sprouts
• Cabbage
• Cauliflower
• Kale
• Nuts
• Pumpkin
• Spinach
• Whole grains

Realize that beans contain anti-nutrients (phytates) that can impact nutrient absorption, so it's something to be mindful of.  Many with Hashimotos mention the Wahl diet has impact, but I'm biased because of my use of the diet, so your own research may be useful.  Pumpkin seeds are a source high in magnesium.  To have impact, you'd want 4-6 CUPS of green vegetables/cruciferous/sulfurs DAILY.  It's a real challenge.  I find a smoothie in the AM with spinach/kale and green SUJA, along with berries and coconut milk and powdered (dairy & GF free) bone broth is my go to.  Lunch is a large salad plus something on the side like sardines and an avocado.  Dinner is protein (meat/fish) with veggies and a salad on the side.

I hope this is useful.

I hope this helps.

 

Thank you so much.  Dd is not thin; I would say she is overweight at 5'4" and around 160lbs (maybe a bit more?)  She had lost a lot of weight in late 2017/early 2018, she was down to 125lb.  I am really not sure what happened/changed other than she is no longer exercising.  

Dd is an extremely picky eater and she followed the AIP elimination food plan for her Hashi's - gluten, grain, dairy, sugar free for a long time, but because she is so picky, it was incredibly hard for her.  She has unresolved GI issues that the AIP was supposed to help as well but did not.   She is now only gluten free and I really hope that the change doesn't mess up her thyroid meds.  She is, unfortunately, eating crappy foods again - milkshakes, fries, chocolate, GF mac n cheese.  I really hope it is a short lived phase (just started on Sunday, so less than a week).  I think that if she actually felt better eating the super healthy foods then she would do so happily, but really, she followed it for a long time with no improvement in her GI issues, so she has thrown in the towel.

Would you mind giving me the recipe for your morning smoothie - she used to drink them, and I think she'd take in leafy greens that way.  Did you mix the SUJA with more spinach or kale as well as the berries, coconut milk and powdered bone broth?   Is any particular SUJA less 'green tasting' than another?

 

4 hours ago, J-rap said:

We really don't treat it, except when I wanted to become pregnant.  (I expect my girls will need to do the same.)    However, one of my dd's who has darker facial hair than the rest of us has a prescription for Spironolactone.  It slows down facial hair growth and I guess reduces androgen levels.  I don't know about testosterone.  It doesn't do anything for irregular periods.  It's a prescription medicine though, not a natural treatment.

 

I have not noticed any facial hair.  Her only PCOS symptoms are weight gain, elevated testosterone, irregular/no periods

1 hour ago, RootAnn said:

B6 helps your body make progesterone. Look into inositol for pcos/lowering testosterone levels. I had it recommended for helping to regulate periods.

She can do some of this while she's waiting to get into the fertility care places. I dislike how putting someone on bcp is the knee jerk reaction.

 

Thank you.  I will look into the B6.  

 

 

Edited December 28, 2019 by jen3kids

[BeachGal]

Resveratrol can reduce testosterone. Ideally, get something that is similar to what the resveratrol researcher David Sinclair takes himself. There are only a few brands. They are expensive but would probably be much better.

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/313555.php#4

For the vulvodynia, possible pcos and period problems — consider red light therapy. Great for Hashimoto’s as well and also many other autoimmune problems.

A small device, like the Joovv Go for $300 would work. Your daughter would place the device near her vulva, each ovary, and then thyroid, maybe 1-3 inches away or directly on the skin. 5-10” per area per day. More time is not necessarily better but even an hour per day would likely not have an adverse affect. If so, it would be something like fatigue or insomnia and only last a day or so.

Red light/near-infrared light therapy is now called photobiomodulation, or PBM, and is an emerging area in medicine that is being used to treat many conditions. It tamps down inflammation. (Green and blue light also have an effect but we don’t absorb those as well.) Michael Hamblin at Harvard is one of the most knowledgeable experts in the world on PBM. You can find interviews of his on YouTube and he has published a lot of studies as well.

Edited December 28, 2019 by BeachGal

[Ann.without.an.e]

PCOS hits hard around 19-23.  DD was just diagnosed a bit over 20.  Her dr is adamant that Birth control is a bandaid that will only cause more problems later.  DD is on progesterone and Spironolactone (to reduce testosterone).  This has been life changing for dd.

[jen3kids]

27 minutes ago, BeachGal said:

Resveratrol can reduce testosterone. Ideally, get something that is similar to what the resveratrol researcher David Sinclair takes himself. There are only a few brands. They are expensive but would probably be much better.

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/313555.php#4

For the vulvodynia, possible pcos and period problems — consider red light therapy. Great for Hashimoto’s as well and also many other autoimmune problems.

A small device, like the Joovv Go for $300 would work. Your daughter would place the device near her vulva, each ovary, and then thyroid, maybe 1-3 inches away or directly on the skin. 5-10” per area per day. More time is not necessarily better but even an hour per day would likely not have an adverse affect. If so, it would be something like fatigue or insomnia and only last a day or so.

Red light/near-infrared light therapy is now called photobiomodulation, or PBM, and is an emerging area in medicine that is being used to treat many conditions. It tamps down inflammation. (Green and blue light also have an effect but we don’t absorb those as well.) Michael Hamblin at Harvard is one of the most knowledgeable experts in the world on PBM. You can find interviews of his on YouTube and he has published a lot of studies as well.

 

Thank you.  I will look into both of the treatments.

20 minutes ago, Attolia said:

PCOS hits hard around 19-23.  DD was just diagnosed a bit over 20.  Her dr is adamant that Birth control is a bandaid that will only cause more problems later.  DD is on progesterone and Spironolactone (to reduce testosterone).  This has been life changing for dd.

 

Thank you, and I am happy to hear there are drs out there who don't just put a bandaid on these issues.