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Quill

For fun: what current things will be gone/almost gone by 2030?

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4 hours ago, Arctic Mama said:

I’ve been using tankless hot water heaters (Rinnai) for a decade - we love them!

Oh, that's the brand our new house will have!

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6 minutes ago, Lady Florida. said:

Oh, that's the brand our new house will have!

We have had two and they’re fantastic.  No maintenance issues at all, and our last one was going on eight years of life when we moved. Some brands are nothing but trouble, but Rinnai has been completely solid for us.

I will say that running them recirculating is what we are doing at the next build, that is trickier in an existing property.  But it cuts any lag waiting for the system to get warm water toward the end of the line, and that’s maybe the only small drawback to tankless that can take some getting used to, depending on how the house is plumbed.  But our very furthest taps at our place in Alaska would take 30 or so seconds to get hot (because of both the distance from the tank and the temperature of the water coming in).

Recirculation prevents that lag 🙂

Hubby also says to go for the biggest one you can get or get two, all it means is that you’ll get more flow or keep up better with demand if it gets high, but it costs essentially no more to run (small efficiency drop) and makes the whole system even more robust.  I will caveat that he is the textbook definition of Overdoing It Engineer in the dictionary, though, 😉

Edited by Arctic Mama
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15 hours ago, Quill said:

That’s a fair point. I do remember when there was Beta and VHS for home movie viewing; at one point in the 80s, it wasn’t apparent that VHS would become the viable option, while Beta would die out. Remember when Blu-Ray DVDs first were released? I was so annoyed and remember saying, “Great, now all the players will go to Blu-Ray and we won’t be able to watch our standard DVDs at all!” But it never got to that because of streaming. 

But I think we can safely say certain things, like using checks, are surely going away and eventually will simply be a relic like our floppy-disks and 8-track tapes. And it doesn’t matter that some slow adopters (or never adopters) resist and won’t switch over. You (not *you* personally) can dig in and refuse to change, you can abandon your bank because they no longer send paper statements to any customer, you can refuse to sign up for automatic bill pay with your power company, but eventually, you’re just going to be standing there holding a checkbook without the ability to pay your bill. So in that sense, progress does march on. It doesn’t care that some people can’t or won’t change. It’s just going to move on without you. 

 

 

Sure, at a certain point it becomes clear that some things will likely stop being used, barring really unforeseen turns of events.  

Sometimes it is worth pushing back though. Moves toward a cashless society might be an example, there are governments that seem to be advocating this but there are downsides for citizens - if it is pushed it might seem easy and inevitable, and that can have a soporific effect.  

 

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47 minutes ago, Lady Florida. said:

If you watch them that's fine. Notice I said they were dusty. 🙂 It's frustrating that they haven't watched any of the DVDs in years yet they won't let them go. 

Oh, I totally agree with you.  I wanted to get rid of them a few years ago when our VCR died.  And then dfil gave us his VCR...

This one is almost dead, so maybe... just maybe...  we'll be able to get rid of it before 2030. :)

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hopefully not physical books and kids being raised at home at least some of the time

maybe

diesel cars?  Not trucks and four wheel drives

cars will be mostly self driving 

 

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On 12/23/2019 at 11:59 AM, Quill said:

 

I have definitely been part of groups or organizations where “we can’t do XYZ because (three members) dont ABC “- use Facebook, use email, have a smart phone, or whatever.But IME, time marches on...those who refuse to move to new technology eventually just are hampered from something. Society doesn’t *stop* progressing because a couple people won’t move on to the next technology. It’s just that those people will be hampered and left behind.

 

We've had problems in Scouts with this. I simply don't have time to call the ONE family who will not use email or FB for notifications. They were angry all the time for being left out. Well, you only have a landline, and no answering machine, no email, no FB, no messaging, so just how are we to let you know that things changed??? It was one reason that they dropped out of the troop, well, other than just refusing to follow National rules. We have a family now who miss things because they won't let their kid have a cell, nor do they use FB. Their kid is only allowed to check email every few days. This really doesn't work!

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I don't see, Ausmumof3, how you can possibly postulate that in one decade, the majority of parents in your country - or any country! - will not even have their kids at home "at least some of the time".

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4 hours ago, Tanaqui said:

I don't see, Ausmumof3, how you can possibly postulate that in one decade, the majority of parents in your country - or any country! - will not even have their kids at home "at least some of the time".

Some of the waking hours is what I meant really.

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7 hours ago, Margaret in CO said:

We've had problems in Scouts with this. I simply don't have time to call the ONE family who will not use email or FB for notifications. They were angry all the time for being left out. Well, you only have a landline, and no answering machine, no email, no FB, no messaging, so just how are we to let you know that things changed??? It was one reason that they dropped out of the troop, well, other than just refusing to follow National rules. We have a family now who miss things because they won't let their kid have a cell, nor do they use FB. Their kid is only allowed to check email every few days. This really doesn't work!

 

I have a very dear friend in her 70's who doesn't own a cell phone. They have a home business and use their home phone and an email address for that. When I email her, it goes to her business address because they only have one email address. I don't email anything I'm not OK with her husband seeing because he sometimes looks at the email before she does.

And you know, I'm fine with that. She's made a choice that works for her. But that's an adult, and at least they check their email (LOL). 

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4 hours ago, G5052 said:

 

I have a very dear friend in her 70's who doesn't own a cell phone. They have a home business and use their home phone and an email address for that. When I email her, it goes to her business address because they only have one email address. I don't email anything I'm not OK with her husband seeing because he sometimes looks at the email before she does.

And you know, I'm fine with that. She's made a choice that works for her. But that's an adult, and at least they check their email (LOL). 

Yep--at least they check their email! When I get chewed out because "We don't know what's going on!" I point out that all THREE of them got the emails!

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10 minutes ago, Margaret in CO said:

Yep--at least they check their email! When I get chewed out because "We don't know what's going on!" I point out that all THREE of them got the emails!

 

I don't get this either. Emailed ds a gift card for Christmas since he is not here. I had to text him to remind him to check his email. When he did, he texted back, "Wow over 14,000 unread emails."  Unbelievable. I still find email a great tool for longer messages that would be awkward to text over phone.

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On 12/24/2019 at 6:41 AM, Quill said:

... but eventually, you’re just going to be standing there holding a checkbook without the ability to pay your bill. 

Or, I might be the only one who can pay the bill because I still have a checkbook. ;)

I think most of what has been named in this fun thread will still be around in 10 years, but maybe not 20. Some things you guys mention might be common place in certain areas of the country on 10 years but in the center of the U.S., in rural areas especially, things take a loooong time to change. In Wyoming, North Dakota, Iowa, central Missouri, western Nebraska, and other places, it'll take a lot longer than 10 years to phase out much of these things.

I use a lot of checks-grocery store, Chinese take-out (they only take cash & checks), tithing at my church, donations to organizations, and more. I do have some bills on autopay, but I find it hard to keep track of all of these. That's actually why I don't use a debit card because keeping a handle on my balance would be impossible. In ten years, I'm afraid my hometown bank will get rid of the phone number I use to hear what checks have cleared & how much direct deposits for DH's paycheck were. That'll be annoying.

There is no Lyft or Uber here. Venmo is not a thing. (Paypal, yes.) 

Self-driving cars will need more accurate maps of roads because some still think there is a road connection between our dead end road and the highway. I think they'll do just fine on main roads, but small towns... Not as much.

I don't like change, so we still have VHS tapes, a VCR, along with DVDs. (The local library completed the switch- over from VHS tapes this year.) Our TV is pre-2000 vintage (analog).

For those who have targeted ads--your apps have access to your microphone. Also, FB is known to set targeting cookies to other websites you visit before & after you login to FB. They also have other apps send them info about your activities. I'm not sure about geographic location info, but that is also likely being shared widely from your apps.

14 hours ago, Arctic Mama said:

 I will caveat that he is the textbook definition of Overdoing It Engineer in the dictionary, though, 😉

Anything designed at home by a good (older) engineer is likely over-engineered & thus robust. There's a lot of that here.

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24 minutes ago, RootAnn said:

 

I think most of what has been named in this fun thread will still be around in 10 years, but maybe not 20. Some things you guys mention might be common place in certain areas of the country on 10 years but in the center of the U.S., in rural areas especially, things take a loooong time to change. In Wyoming, North Dakota, Iowa, central Missouri, western Nebraska, and other places, it'll take a lot longer than 10 years to phase out much of these things.

 I do have some bills on autopay, but I find it hard to keep track of all of these. That's actually why I don't use a debit card because keeping a handle on my balance would be impossible. 

There is no Lyft or Uber here. Venmo is not a thing. (Paypal, yes.) 

(The local library completed the switch- over from VHS tapes this year.)

Even though I live where they launch rockets (and soon people again) into space, change takes a long time to get here too. AFAIK no local credit unions have Google, Samsung, or Apple pay. I'd use it if ours did. I imagine the big banks have it but we like our credit union. Speaking of banking, we use auto pay but do it through our bank rather than the individual places. We do all of our online bill paying through our bank rather than the website of the company we're paying. 

There's no Lyft here but there's Uber - just 2 cars. Door Dash just recently became available but only a few places use it. We do have grocery delivery, pay online to pickup, and curbside pickup. Those are only available however for Target, Walmart, and the regional grocery chain Publix.

I want to give those DVDs I mentioned upthread to our local library branch. When I called I asked if they'd keep them or if they give them to the Friends of the Library for their quarterly sale. The person I spoke to said they'll go through them first. If they want it but don't have it or if their copy is getting scratched and worn, they'll keep it. The rest they give to FoL. Either way the library benefits. We used this branch extensively throughout or homeschool years so I'm glad to be able to give back in more ways than just paying taxes. 

Edited by Lady Florida.
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Kind of a spin-off of self driving cars-driving as a rite of passage. The only 15 yr olds I know who are getting their learner's permit a and learning to drive are the ones who's parents are insisting on it, and few kids drive all that much due to insurance costs, etc-the ones that do usually are doing so because their parent needed them to take over some of the load. DD's feeling is that she can always walk, scooter, or call an Uber, so why drive?  

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Thanks for reminding me @Lady Florida.

No Door Dash or Grub Hub here. Big city 1 1/2 hrs away, yes. No Sunday Amazon delivery. No same day delivery. No curbside pickup or grocery delivery. We can call & get someone to drop off a prescription but that's likely because of the aging population in our small town. Like a lot of rural areas, most of our young people move away unless they want to teach, do nursing, or work at one of the 2-3 places that employ over half the adults in our area. Retail & fast food doesn't employ as many here as it used to because many places are shutting down. (Self-check & self-order is a thing in the bigger town 30 min away.)

I do not see USPS being gone in 10 years but I do think it will look much different than it does today. I also think UPS &FedEx will run differently if they are flexible enough to pair with 3D printing companies. Their regional hubs can have 3D print tech & places like Amazon can send the print plans to a hub where a toy or vehicle part will print. Then, the delivery company takes it the rest of the way to your door. Less work than having parts sitting in inventory & having to ship cross-country.

I do wonder if there will be any printed newspapers/magazines left in 20 years.

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Related to the idea of change/progress taking a long time, vs marching on without people...

Did you know that Western union sent it's very last telegram as recently as 2006!  

I think if it takes that long for the telegram to actually disappear, I imagine that it will take a lot longer than 10 years for lots of today's tech to die out.  Now, individual companies die out of course, and sometimes it takes some companies with it.  

 

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3 hours ago, dmmetler said:

Kind of a spin-off of self driving cars-driving as a rite of passage. The only 15 yr olds I know who are getting their learner's permit a and learning to drive are the ones who's parents are insisting on it, and few kids drive all that much due to insurance costs, etc-the ones that do usually are doing so because their parent needed them to take over some of the load. DD's feeling is that she can always walk, scooter, or call an Uber, so why drive?  

That must be related to your location. Most of the teens I know get their driver's license as soon as possible and families that can afford it provide their teens with cars. High school student parking lots are huge. It is not possible to walk, scooter, or bike most places here. Even places that are close enough have traffic patterns that making walking or biking too dangerous. Uber is not allowed to take minors and I don't know of anyone who allows their teens to use it.

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2 hours ago, mom2scouts said:

That must be related to your location. Most of the teens I know get their driver's license as soon as possible and families that can afford it provide their teens with cars. High school student parking lots are huge. It is not possible to walk, scooter, or bike most places here. Even places that are close enough have traffic patterns that making walking or biking too dangerous. Uber is not allowed to take minors and I don't know of anyone who allows their teens to use it.

Yeah, it's very location related.  In my current location, I am amazed at how much is available within walking/biking distance, INCLUDING bus stops.  But, I have never lived in a place like that in my adult life.  Most places I have lived don't have anything, or have very very little within that sort of distance.  The place we were at before here....the K2 school was that close.  But the high school.......that was located way out of the way and really the only kids that could have walked to it were the couple of kids that lived on the ajacent farms.  

 

At the same time, another factor is the laws that are making it harder and hard for teens to get licenses and be independent.  DD23 was actually not legally allowed to get her learners permit until she was 16.5.  Now, she could have gotten it at 16 if we had been willing to pay a few hundred dollars for drivers ed, but we weren't.  And that's another factor, not just the insurance costs, but the costs of the stupid drivers ed courses.  Depending on the location, they can be several hundred dollars per kid.  And some states require them.

 

Edited by happysmileylady
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6 hours ago, dmmetler said:

Kind of a spin-off of self driving cars-driving as a rite of passage. The only 15 yr olds I know who are getting their learner's permit a and learning to drive are the ones who's parents are insisting on it, and few kids drive all that much due to insurance costs, etc-the ones that do usually are doing so because their parent needed them to take over some of the load. DD's feeling is that she can always walk, scooter, or call an Uber, so why drive?  

You must not be in Texas. No way people here - except those in the metroplexes - don't need to drive. Everyone. I personally can't imagine giving up my freedom to drive wherever I want whenever. The entire family has several more days off - why not take an impromptu vacation to Fill-in-the-blank location? Why not head to a local state park and hike? No telling when we might be done, and I'd hate to wait for an Uber - assuming one ever showed up. We live in a small town. Even the kids in the local college town don't Uber to classes if they don't live on campus - not enough Ubers, no bus service for much of the town. Scooter might work, but not with the drivers we have here - LOTs of very large pickups and fairly aggressive drivers. No way I'd feel comfortable on a scooter! 

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Yeah, I live in Texas and if you relied on Uber to get to places you couldn't walk or scooter, you'd be housebound or bankrupt in a year. SO expensive. 

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I'm jumping in late here and mostly skimmed through this thread, but I think Facebook will be gone or at least on its way out by 2030.

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4 hours ago, J-rap said:

I'm jumping in late here and mostly skimmed through this thread, but I think Facebook will be gone or at least on its way out by 2030.

I hope you're right about that! The world would be a better place, assuming something worse didn't replace it (yeah, I know--huge assumption).

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12 hours ago, Bambam said:

You must not be in Texas. No way people here - except those in the metroplexes - don't need to drive. 

Same here in Florida. With the exception of a few larger cities/metro areas most of the state doesn't have anything within walking/biking/scooter distance. Also, if you took a bike to work you'd arrive dripping with sweat and needing a shower, about 6 months out of the year. And on the way home you'd be likely to get caught in a monster thunderstorm with lightning, and rain so heavy you can barely see your hand in front of you. 

Edited by Lady Florida.
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Does anyone thing small town/very rural living will be gone soon?  Someone upthread said that the young people are not moving back after college.  I know I left my small town, never to come back.  Will suburbs/city living be the norm ever?

 

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5 hours ago, Teaching3bears said:

Why do you think Facebook will be gone? Is it because younger people are not using it?

That's certainly part of it.  My kids are all 23 - 31, and none of them (or their peers) use it anymore.  It's just starting to feel outdated to me.  I guess I can't give you a list of reasons... just a feeling.  

ETA:  "outdated and tiresome."  🙂  Even my middle aged friends mostly don't use it anymore...  Just a few die-hards.

 

Edited by J-rap
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4 hours ago, Lady Florida. said:

Same here in Florida. With the exception of a few larger cities/metro areas most of the state doesn't have anything within walking/biking/scooter distance. Also, if you took a bike to work you'd arrive dripping with sweat and needing a shower, about 6 months out of the year. And on the way home you'd be likely to get caught in a monster thunderstorm with lightning, and rain so heavy you can barely see your hand in front of you. 

That would be a bit of a buzzkill 🤣

My BIL lives in a very walkable suburb in Canada, and he rides his bike pretty much everywhere.  He did in college in Alaska as well. Colder climates are easier for bike commuting, I think, provided one has snow tires on.

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4 minutes ago, Homeschool Mom in AZ said:

As for shopping malls, maybe more places will fill them with resale shops they have in Sweden:
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/recycled-mall-sweden-retuna_n_5bfd0762e4b0eb6d931346b3

That would be great!  We have some flea markets and secondhand stores that are pretty substantial around here, but I’d kind of love to see that sort of bargain setup in a dying mall.

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1 hour ago, YaelAldrich said:

Does anyone thing small town/very rural living will be gone soon?  Someone upthread said that the young people are not moving back after college.  I know I left my small town, never to come back.  Will suburbs/city living be the norm ever?

 

I live in a "suburb" but it's still a tiny town with nothing. City living in cities out here it's far too expensive to even think it would be possible for most young people just setting out. 

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3 hours ago, YaelAldrich said:

Does anyone thing small town/very rural living will be gone soon? 

 

 

1 hour ago, kdsuomi said:

City living in cities out here it's far too expensive to even think it would be possible for most young people just setting out. 

It's time federal and state governments seriously consider choosing between propping up dying economies and dwindling services (hospitals, schools, etc.) in rural and desperately poor urban areas with taxes or using those taxes to slowly and steadily relocate people to places with healthy economies and adequate services. The reality is, we cannot expect the taxpayers to continue to sink limited funds into those money pits.  So far I haven't heard any other plausible options.  Same with people living in flood plains. Flood insurance funds should only be collected to move and buy a home not in a flood plain. Stop granting building permits on flood plains, not one should be subsidizing that kind of senselessness. 

We're also going to have give rights to low income housing builders.  Allowing wealthy and moderate income Americans to deny low income Americans a place to live by protesting city governments granting permits for low income housing has to become a civil rights issue. We'll need to make tiny house options available  because that's what's going to work for many people starting out and many retirees. Something the size of a free standing studio apartment will need some minimal building code regulation and be granted building permits. This is an economic reality now, and it will likely become more normative as automation affects jobs.

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On 12/23/2019 at 12:40 PM, Quill said:

All this talk of landlines makes me think of another thing that I expect will be totally gone by 2030 (and is already rare): fax. I keep thinking (but forgetting) I need to go into our invoice forms on Quickbooks and remove the fax number from the company forms. No landline = no fax, so the number on our forms has been out of use since this past spring or summer. 

Another thing I think will be gone or extremely reduced by 2030: DVDs I also think the way people buy clothes will continue to change away from buying clothes off the rack at a store and will include much more either custom-made clothing where you pick the choices on-line (eShakti already operates like this) or more style shopping services like Stitch Fix. I also think clothing rental is going to grow in popularity. Eventually (not in ten years but probably in twenty) I think closets in homes will change to be more like the European way with cabinetry in the room and will move away from big walk-in closets. I personally do think the European cabinet wall style makes loads more sense and I wish ours was designed like that. 

I had thought fax was mostly not used anymore until I discovered that all health facilities, doctors, pharmacies, etc, use fax so often.  I have to use an online fax service frequently.

As to DVDS, we do buy lots of DVDs, including teaching company or FGreat Courses or whatever they are called nowadays.

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48 minutes ago, Homeschool Mom in AZ said:

 

It's time federal and state governments seriously consider choosing between propping up dying economies and dwindling services (hospitals, schools, etc.) in rural and desperately poor urban areas with taxes or using those taxes to slowly and steadily relocate people to places with healthy economies and adequate services. The reality is, we cannot expect the taxpayers to continue to sink limited funds into those money pits.  So far I haven't heard any other plausible options.  Same with people living in flood plains. Flood insurance funds should only be collected to move and buy a home not in a flood plain. Stop granting building permits on flood plains, not one should be subsidizing that kind of senselessness. 

We're also going to have give rights to low income housing builders.  Allowing wealthy and moderate income Americans to deny low income Americans a place to live by protesting city governments granting permits for low income housing has to become a civil rights issue. We'll need to make tiny house options available  because that's what's going to work for many people starting out and many retirees. Something the size of a free standing studio apartment will need some minimal building code regulation and be granted building permits. This is an economic reality now, and it will likely become more normative as automation affects jobs.

 

The government is not propping up where I live, though, and we don't have services here and must go to the city in order to access anything. Albeit, that city is only roughly 20 minutes away. There is also no such thing as minimal building codes here in CA. The cities are built out, can only build up, and with CA codes that's extremely expensive. My city is also very far from poor, also.  Generalizing one solution onto the entire nation isn't beneficial. 

Edited by kdsuomi
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12 hours ago, Pawz4me said:

I hope you're right about that! The world would be a better place, assuming something worse didn't replace it (yeah, I know--huge assumption).

Not for me.  Most of my disease related social support is through Facebook.  There are a lot of specialized groups on Facebook and while I mostly deal with groups based on most of my diseases, my kids all belong to funny meme groups or joker groups or bird lovers or what not.  

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3 hours ago, kdsuomi said:

 

The government is not propping up where I live, though, and we don't have services here and must go to the city in order to access anything. Albeit, that city is only roughly 20 minutes away. There is also no such thing as minimal building codes here in CA. The cities are built out, can only build up, and with CA codes that's extremely expensive. My city is also very far from poor, also.  Generalizing one solution onto the entire nation isn't beneficial. 

You saw the part of my post that said it was a solution for dying economies in poor areas, right?

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On 12/25/2019 at 9:24 PM, happysmileylady said:

At the same time, another factor is the laws that are making it harder and hard for teens to get licenses and be independent.  DD23 was actually not legally allowed to get her learners permit until she was 16.5.  Now, she could have gotten it at 16 if we had been willing to pay a few hundred dollars for drivers ed, but we weren't.  And that's another factor, not just the insurance costs, but the costs of the stupid drivers ed courses.  Depending on the location, they can be several hundred dollars per kid.  And some states require them.

 

My state requires anyone under 18 to take driver's ed and it is very expensive, but I don't see that reducing the number of teens getting their driver's license in my area. Even the lower income students scrape up the money to take driver's ed because not being able to drive in this area is a significant problem.

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On 12/22/2019 at 6:36 AM, history-fan said:

Medical clinics will be virtual on line

Agree. Or at the very least a lot will be accomplished through phone apps before going into clinics. 

On 12/22/2019 at 6:45 PM, Joker said:

The only thing I can really think of is grocery stores. I do think it will be all self check out / scan and go. I think most grocery store employees will become those who are only shopping for customers picking up or having orders delivered. 

I guess with all the food delivery options I could also see most fast food type places becoming mostly take out/drive thru/delivery only (like so many pizza places are now). So many around us look empty much of the time due to the amount of delivery / drive thru happening anyway. 

I don't really think most things will change that much. 

we had a couple of businesses go back to food trucks because the charges for 3rd party delivery were too expensive. 
grocery stores will be centralized and offer delivery. 
 

I think another app will come along that is more secure and offers more privacy which will take FB’s place. Even better if it can avoid politics somehow. People are going to be fed up after the next couple presidential elections. 
 

 

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Tiny houses will finally get the zoning it needs and the movement will explode. 

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All the empty shopping malls here have become Instagram attractions like 3D museums, pop-up stores, a petting zoo/aquarium, a nightclub, and all kinds of random stuff. 
 

Strip malls don’t seem to be slowing down either. I wish they would. 

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On 12/22/2019 at 6:45 PM, Joker said:

The only thing I can really think of is grocery stores. I do think it will be all self check out / scan and go. I think most grocery store employees will become those who are only shopping for customers picking up or having orders delivered. 

I agree with you.  Also I think many grocery stores will end up being warehouses -- entirely online ordering with either home delivery or parking lot pick-up options, same as Amazon.  This will combat the shoplifting losses.  The store security guards don't seem to be much of a deterrent.  

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17 hours ago, Homeschool Mom in AZ said:

As for shopping malls, maybe more places will fill them with resale shops they have in Sweden:
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/recycled-mall-sweden-retuna_n_5bfd0762e4b0eb6d931346b3

There is a “mall” like this in Maryland. It also has artist’s co-op shops and a couple of rarer shops, like an antique clock shop. It’s a fascinating place to go look around. 

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10 hours ago, Plum said:

Tiny houses will finally get the zoning it needs and the movement will explode. 

Interesting that is your prediction, because I think tiny houses - at least, in their current iteration - are a fad and will not sustain. I do think smaller housing with multi-use, more efficient layouts, like Japanese design, will become more prevalent. Huge McMansions have been trending out for a while now. 

But true “tiny houses” as that means normally, I think is a fad. When I went to a tiny home expo, none of the tiny home livers at the expo had been living that way for more than two years. And those who had been living that way the longest had converted buses, not the cute little houses on wheels on offer. It was fun to look at them, but I can’t imagine the realities of living that tiny, even if I were single and childless. 

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1 hour ago, Quill said:

Interesting that is your prediction, because I think tiny houses - at least, in their current iteration - are a fad and will not sustain. I do think smaller housing with multi-use, more efficient layouts, like Japanese design, will become more prevalent. Huge McMansions have been trending out for a while now. 

But true “tiny houses” as that means normally, I think is a fad. When I went to a tiny home expo, none of the tiny home livers at the expo had been living that way for more than two years. And those who had been living that way the longest had converted buses, not the cute little houses on wheels on offer. It was fun to look at them, but I can’t imagine the realities of living that tiny, even if I were single and childless. 

Tiny houses for the homeless seems to be the big thing lately.

They're either a perfect solution to a problem or a truly bad idea, depending on who you talk to and how they're built.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/mar/23/tiny-houses-solution-homelessness-seattle

https://charterforcompassion.org/problem-solving/tiny-houses-for-the-homeless-an-affordable-solution-catches-on

https://www.nbcnews.com/business/real-estate/tiny-houses-big-idea-end-homelessness-n39316

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17 hours ago, kdsuomi said:

I live in a "suburb" but it's still a tiny town with nothing. City living in cities out here it's far too expensive to even think it would be possible for most young people just setting out. 

 

19 hours ago, Arctic Mama said:

That would be a bit of a buzzkill 🤣

My BIL lives in a very walkable suburb in Canada, and he rides his bike pretty much everywhere.  l<snip> Colder climates are easier for bike commuting, I think, provided one has snow tires on.

Many Florida cities are mainly suburbs, which adds to the difficulty of getting around without a car. Even without the heat and rain it would be a problem. It goes back to the early land booms here, early 1900s to all the way to the 1970s. Developments were designed on a grid with with houses on every lot. Only after the houses were built did they realize that they left no room for any services. No shops, no schools, no libraries, government offices, etc. And somehow they kept doing it over and over again all around the state, usually with full government cooperation. Florida was essentially built as a giant suburb. 

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2 hours ago, Quill said:

Interesting that is your prediction, because I think tiny houses - at least, in their current iteration - are a fad and will not sustain. I do think smaller housing with multi-use, more efficient layouts, like Japanese design, will become more prevalent. Huge McMansions have been trending out for a while now. 

But true “tiny houses” as that means normally, I think is a fad. When I went to a tiny home expo, none of the tiny home livers at the expo had been living that way for more than two years. And those who had been living that way the longest had converted buses, not the cute little houses on wheels on offer. It was fun to look at them, but I can’t imagine the realities of living that tiny, even if I were single and childless. 

 

1 hour ago, Teaching3bears said:

Why are tiny houses better than apartments? Don't they take up more land but offer less living space?

I’m thinking more along the lines of zoning allowing people to add a tiny house in their backyards. They could be used for AirBNB, granny flats, rentals and so on. We do have a tiny home community downtown that the owner of Zappos founded. It has quite a long waiting list. He also built or funded several apartment complexes so his workers have a place to live nearby. One offers a micro apartment complex offers studios to 2 bedrooms that range from 300-700 square feet. It also has a waiting list. 

Companies are going to have to get creative to attract employees if there’s no where to live. Musk has had to build his own community near the Tesla battery factory up in Northern NV. Prices for housing skyrocketed as employees attempted to find homes.  Now that’s happening in Henderson as Amazon and the Raiders move in. Just as employers began to cover health insurance to attract employees, housing could end up on the bargaining table for some jobs or companies. 

Japan has had micro cubicle apartments for years. I see a lot of younger generation rejecting the whole consumerist lifestyle. They grew up with oversized everything and prefer meaning and experiences over stuff. I think it’s a healthier perspective. I do worry if companies start to offer living spaces that the work/life balance will be lost and we would look more like China. They would have to be intentional about creating a community people want to live in. So far Zappos Hsieh has brought an entire vision to our downtown including living spaces, shopping at Container Park, retail and commercial leases.  

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On 12/26/2019 at 9:57 PM, Pawz4me said:

I hope you're right about that! The world would be a better place, assuming something worse didn't replace it (yeah, I know--huge assumption).

 

Twitter will still be there, and as we all know, Twitter is the absolute worst.

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20 hours ago, TravelingChris said:

Not for me.  Most of my disease related social support is through Facebook.  There are a lot of specialized groups on Facebook and while I mostly deal with groups based on most of my diseases, my kids all belong to funny meme groups or joker groups or bird lovers or what not.  

 

There's a lot of support going on via FB.  I remember you talking before about it. FB is not the worst place online.

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5 hours ago, Teaching3bears said:

Why are tiny houses better than apartments? Don't they take up more land but offer less living space?


My only thought is that here in Houston, where housing is cheap, way out in the burbs, a 1 bed, 1 bath apartment rents for more than my mortgage on my 4 bedroom, two story home. I have a friend who has three children and is forced into much larger apartments that she absolutely can not afford. But buying a home is off the table because of the large down payment required. A tiny home (or in the case of my friend, something like a converted bus) can be economically within reach for more people, and assuming there is a place they're allowed to park it that isn't $$$, they can actually improve their financial situation while living there. 
 

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6 hours ago, Teaching3bears said:

Why are tiny houses better than apartments? Don't they take up more land but offer less living space?

IMO, they aren’t and yes, they do. The “infrastructure” of a house is what costs a lot and - to a point at least - once you pay for systems like electric, plumbing, kitchen, exterior and insulation, a few hundred square feet doesn’t increase the cost much, but it does offer a ton of relief of inconveniences. Of course, if the object is to be mobile, that puts a strict limit on how big it can be as well as how much weight you can carry. Even a decision as simple as wanting a cast iron pan suddenly matters. 
It seems to me if the primary feature is mobility, travel trailers do the job better. If the primary goal is having a small living space, condos, townhouses and apartments do the job better. 

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